N810 Specs from Nokia Site

[DemonBob]

*Cough* Just stumbled accross this.

http://www.nseries.com/index.html#l=products,n810


http://www.nseries.com/nseries/v3/media/sections/products/tech_specs/en-R1/tech_specs_n810_en_R1.html

[torx]

70 more hertz is tempting, but the keyboard and micro sd makes it a no deal for me.

[Viipottaja]

"3.5 mm stereo headphone plug (Nokia AV Connector)"

TV/video out?

[DemonBob]

I seem to like it. The Tech Specs list 2GB of Internal Storage. I wonder if thats just for the GPS Maps or if thier is extra included.

[sjgadsby]

"Input Methods: HW keyboard, full screen finger keyboard and on-screen keyboard"

No handwriting recognition? *cry*

[Viipottaja]

Torx, I think it's actually MiniSD

Support for compatible miniSD and microSD memory cards (with extender). Supports cards up to 8GB. (SD cards over 2GB must be SDHC compatible.)

[Hedgecore]

They said memory cards (plural) so that implies two...

Definately a mozilla based browser (COOL!)

Out of the box file format support (media) is way better (I'm a 770 guy remember)

GPS w/maps - - cool!

Crap. I may have to get me one of these!!! This time I'll have a coworker in Michigan pick me one up.

[benny1967]

It seems there's no more stylus? I cant see it on the pictures and its not mentioned in the specs? WTF?

[phase pistol]

So at about the same screen size, the 810 is a bit smaller overall. More pocketable.

[Jupex]

The N810 seems interesting specswise, especially the video capabilities are temting:

Supported video formats: 3GP, AVI, WMV, MP4, H263, H.264, MPEG-1, MPEG-4, RV (RealVideo)


Are we supposed to get the same godies for N800 when the Chinook update rolls out?

[Viipottaja]

Look at the pics on

http://internettablettalk.wordpress.com/

The stylus is where it's also on N800.

Hedgecore, according to Symbian-guru, www. symbian-guru.com there is only one memory card slot.

Jupex, press release says the OS can be updated on N800 as well, so presumably yes.

http://www.nokia.com/A4136001?newsid=1160660

[anderbr]

Is this
http://media.shozu.com/cache/portal/media/259c82/16777250

a hard cover ?? (please! )

[Hedgecore]

There had better be a stylus... otherwise the thing is useless. Yes, I could carry an old stylus around with me but ... not likely :)

[sjgadsby]

It seems there's no more stylus? I cant see it on the pictures and its not mentioned in the specs?

In the blurry the N810 photos on the temporary site (http://internettablettalk.wordpress.com/), there's a hole in one of the upper corners of the device that appears (to me) to be for the stylus. This hole is filled in the photos on Nokia's site by what looks like grey plastic. That could be the butt of the stylus.

There's also what appears to be a button on the top edge of the N810, above this apparent stylus location. I'm not sure what that is. Could it be some sort of eject button?

[Viipottaja]

Anderbr, just the back of the device, I am afraid.

[scrappy898]

OK guys...here it is...I'm gonna break it down.

They are a bunch of fascinating things coming from this.
First: faster processor and a FULL!!!!! Adoble flash...which means smooth video playing.
Second:The ambient light sensor
Third: DID YOU SEE THE BLUETOOTH PROFILES(HOLY COW!)... Dun: Dial up networking( a whole new way to go online...no more pricey data plans needed) / HSP: Headset profile...woo hoo/ SAP(NOWthat's the future): we will be able to take our calls from our phones and make calls from our n800s..just look at the mercedez benz.
Forth: UPNP...with the right hardware we will be able to stream the n810 images, videos, audio, etc to our PC or TV
Fifth: WMV, HSP2.64 and WMA....We will FINALLY be able to stream windows media videos through the device(no more limitations), and hsp...nice quality indeed. OH yeah 3gp...those tiny videos made for cellphones
Sixth: GPS With WAYPOINTS>>>>WOOHOOO...
Seventh: The qwerty keyboard(i think)

GUYS NOKIA NAILED IT THIS TIME... this is at the moment the most portable and technically advanced device on the market..just look at the compatibility and programs.

[Hedgecore]

There are other photos clearly showing the stylus... crisis averted, carry on.

Too bad about the one SD card but 8GB is enough for now.

[Viipottaja]

Yep.. good to see the positive comments starting to flow. And the best bit: it indeed appears you can all that (sans hardware qwerty) to your N800 too!
[OR is there any reason the OS update would not bring all of it to N800 as well?]

I am actually also impressed they managed to squeeze the keyboard into the same thickness.. no reports yet on whether its any good though.

[konttori]

n810 is significantly smaller than n800.

[konttori]

but it weights 20 grams more.

[konttori]

n800:
* Volume: 137 cc
* Weight: 206 g
* Length: 75 mm
* Width: 144 mm
* Thickness: 13 (/18) mm


n810:
* Volume: 128 cc
* Weight: 226 g
* Length: 72 mm
* Width: 128 mm
* Thickness: 14 mm


(source nokia website)

[zerojay]

First: faster processor and a FULL!!!!! Adoble flash...which means smooth video playing.

We already have FULL!!!!!! Adoble flash on the N800.

[zerojay]

I think part of the reason why we've been hearing Texrat saying that the N810 is not meant to be a replacement for the N800 is because most of the software features will probably be making it into the N800 once Chinook is released, unlike what happened with the 770. So I would not be surprised if the N800 ends up getting support for WMV, WMA, 3gp, etc...
I'm starting to suspect that we'll be getting Chinook within a month.

[Viipottaja]

Zerojay, press release says the N800 OS can be updated,and in the other thread Mara just implied he has it running on it already.

[zerojay]

Zerojay, press release says the N800 OS can be updated,and in the other thread Mara just implied he has it running on it already.

Yes, I know. They told us they would be supporting us through at least Chinook (ITOS 2008) and Diablo (ITOS2009?).

[Viipottaja]

http://jaaksi.blogspot.com/2007/10/nokia-n810-announced.html

Another nice UI pic

[zerojay]

http://jaaksi.blogspot.com/2007/10/nokia-n810-announced.html

Another nice UI pic

something weird I just noticed. Look at the top left of the tablet. N00? lol

[Moonshine]

http://jaaksi.blogspot.com/2007/10/nokia-n810-announced.html

Another nice UI pic


ooooohhhh aaaahhhhh ! That's the first screen shot that has me excited about OS2008. Why can't Nokia use shots that show off the transparency and a more "personal" desktop.

If you blow that shot up it looks to me like the keyboard will have backlighting as well. It will be curious to see how well the battery holds up with an active GPS, backlight keyboard, etc.

[fanoush]

70 more hertz is tempting,.
There is quite high chance we'll get this on N800 too with OS2008. It was said by Nokia people that the CPU in N800 is 400 MHz version too. They were waiting for better CPU voltage and frequency scaling code in linux kernel which could enable it only when needed without compromising battery life.
See http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/developers/24771#24771

[zerojay]

There is quite high chance we'll get this on N800 too with OS2008. It was said by Nokia people that the CPU in N800 is 400 MHz version too. They were waiting for better CPU voltage and frequency scaling code in linux kernel which could enable it only when needed without compromising battery life.

Much like Sony did with the PSP, underclocking it to 222mhz until recently when they allowed developers to start dynamically changing it up to 333mhz.

[TA-t3]

I simply can't understand why they ditched the full-size SD format to go mini-SD.. Nokia made a clear mistake with the RS-MMC on the 770 (look at those threads where people try to hack together hardware to support micro-SD, just to get out of the RS-MMC jail). They got it right on the N800: full-size SD, so that your internet tablet can be the common nominator for all your SD/MMC family devices. And now they changed it _again_, this time to an inferior format?

It's such an old, limited style of thinking: "you can get 8GB mini-SD now, and probably more in the future, so just go buy yourself one and put into the N810". But hey! The point of removable memory cards is that you can _interchange_ them with other devices. If I were to get an N810, what would I a) do with my old full-size SD cards for the old N800? b) suddenly I would also be unable to put cards from my other devices into the NIT "media central": My still camera uses SDHC, my video camera uses SDHC, my 4-track Zoom recorder uses SD, and I have three other devices that use either SD or MMC. All useless with the N810.

[Texrat]

Inferior format???

TA, the trend is toward smaller formats. And given the availability of adapters, I don't see this as an issue... EDIT: except for using legacy cards.

[MoridinBG]

OK, on the Nokia site it is clearly said:
Support for compatible miniSD and microSD memory cards (with extender). Supports cards up to 8GB. (SD cards over 2GB must be SDHC compatible.)
extender for mini/micro SD and SD cards over 2GB must be SDHC compatible.

What can't you understand guys? It is god damned SD. Not miniSD. It's just only one, not two.


And my big question is: USB Host? A? A? AAA?

[Kozzi]

OK, on the Nokia site it is clearly said:

extender for mini/micro SD and

What can't you understand guys? It is god damned SD. Not miniSD. It's just only one, not two.


http://www.engadget.com/gallery/nokia-n810-hands-on/443962/
I think it's miniSD slot.

[Tuxedosteve]

It's definately miniSD which brings my next question. The only microSDHC cards I can find in a quick search come with SD adapters not miniSD adapters and on a couple of UK sites I couldn't find any miniSDHC cards at all. How are you supposed to use greater than 2gig then?

*Edit* Scratch that. I can find 4gig miniSDHC cards but nothing bigger and still no microSDHC with minisd adapters.

[TA-t3]

Inferior format???

Well of course, full-size SD slots can handle all the rest, not the other way around. And SD is always a step ahead w.r.t. size and price. (If it stops at 32GB eventually then that's an artificial problem introduced by the spec designers. Anyway, we're not there yet.)

TA, the trend is toward smaller formats. And given the availability of adapters, I don't see this as an issue... EDIT: except for using legacy cards.
What's "trends" got to do with this? It's only OK if you stick to typical "phones-with-memory-slot" thinking: You buy the device, you stick one card in, and that's it. Every device you own is an island.

That's not how I use my N800. Not only have I lots of cards from the near past, I have new devices like my camera and video camera (and a 4-track sound recorder) which use the full-size format, the nice thing about the N800 is that I can just take the card from one of them and put straight into the N800. With the N810 I would have to get my laptop and find a card reader. If so, then I could just skip the NIT altogether and use the laptop. Back to square one.

And lastly: Nokia has sent 3 internet tablets to market. And they change the interfaces _every time_! No sane engineer would do that. I suspect marketdroids.

[Hedgecore]

Looks like we've got a light up keyboard too.

http://www.engadget.com/photos/nokia-n810-hands-on/443963/

[LordFu]

Changing to miniSD is a mistake, IMO, and it only has one slot? Make that a double mistake.

Putting the d-pad on the slider, ugh, why?

The 2g of internal flash is a nice addition.

So, I'll be keeping my N800. I am extremely excited about the O/S update.

[Texrat]

Well of course, full-size SD slots can handle all the rest, not the other way around. And SD is always a step ahead w.r.t. size and price. (If it stops at 32GB eventually then that's an artificial problem introduced by the spec designers. Anyway, we're not there yet.)

What's "trends" got to do with this? It's only OK if you stick to typical "phones-with-memory-slot" thinking: You buy the device, you stick one card in, and that's it. Every device you own is an island.

That's not how I use my N800. Not only have I lots of cards from the near past, I have new devices like my camera and video camera (and a 4-track sound recorder) which use the full-size format, the nice thing about the N800 is that I can just take the card from one of them and put straight into the N800. With the N810 I would have to get my laptop and find a card reader. If so, then I could just skip the NIT altogether and use the laptop. Back to square one.

And lastly: Nokia has sent 3 internet tablets to market. And they change the interfaces _every time_! No sane engineer would do that. I suspect marketdroids.

I'm not going to waste too much of my time or yours defending the decisions. I'm just saying *I* don't see it as the major upset that many paint it as. It certainly would be nice if the N810 used a common denominator format, but on the other hand the trend (and yes it's important because that drives availability of media and other concerns) is toward smaller sizes. Supporting smaller sizes makes it easier to keep device size down too (small contributer in this case but many such decisions, such as micro USB, add up).

That's all I have to say... other than that if there are no micro-to-mini SD adapters available at all I'm not gonna be happy...

[Rebski]

full-size SD slots can handle all the rest, not the other way around

I fully agree with this, full size SD slots was one of the arguments in favour of the N800 and the adoption of miniSD for the N810 has taken away the versatility that full SD offers.

Going with the trend at the expense of usability is just blind sightedness.

[zerojay]

I'd be more forgiving about the type of card supported if it still had two slots. Oh well... sucks, but not the end of the world.

[johnkzin]

is it miniSD only? not full SD? That'd be another let-down, IMO.

[Tuxedosteve]

That's all I have to say... other than that if there are no micro-to-mini SD adapters available at all I'm not gonna be happy...

I haven't been able to find any yet.

[johnkzin]

Third: DID YOU SEE THE BLUETOOTH PROFILES(HOLY COW!)... SAP(NOWthat's the future): we will be able to take our calls from our phones and make calls from our n800s..

Does SAP mean: shows caller ID on the N810, lets you answer/reject calls via the N810, lets you route voice in/out for the call through your N810?

If so, then that is a HUGE leap forward. Might even make up for the move to miniSD and the bad placement of the dpad.

[Viipottaja]

Engadget:

"-- it's just too bad the N810 keyboard disappoints us so. Sure, the keys are large, backlit, and far more tactile than on the E90, but the top row is jammed right up against the bottom of the screen, making typing really difficult without keeping your thumbs totally perpendicular to the keyboard. The N810 could really benefit from the room of a few millimeters more slide if you ask us.."

Any comments on this from those who have it/have used it? Texrat?

[rs-px]

There is quite high chance we'll get this on N800 too with OS2008. It was said by Nokia people that the CPU in N800 is 400 MHz version too. They were waiting for better CPU voltage and frequency scaling code in linux kernel which could enable it only when needed without compromising battery life.
See http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/developers/24771#24771

If true then this is big news. I can now see what Texrat meant when he said that the 810 is an alternative to the 800, and not a replacement. The two are very close to each other 'under the hood'.

From a geek point of view, the 800 would be perfected simply by being faster. The keyboard is not really a boon -- if a geek wants to do serious typing, he gets a bluetooth keyboard. And GPS is nice, but not essential, and once again can be brought in by Bluetooth. Some BT GPS modules are extremely inexpensive and small.

So, really, the improvements in the 810 are largely cosmetic. In many ways, with its two expansion slots, the 800 is more geared toward geeks anyway.

Hard core geeks: 770
Geeks: 800
Everybdoy else: 810

[whatever7]

I really doubt the 810 has the horse power to route cell phone calls to the tablet (which in itself is pointless), the n800 can't even deal with Skype and gaim at the same time, and its marginally slower than the n810.

[johnkzin]

(which in itself is pointless)


Guess I just like pointless things. Since that alone might make me buy the N810 instead of waiting for the WiMAX version.

Having 1 device that I ever actually handle, while all other devices sit in my pocket/backpack/briefcase, is exactly what I want. Having an IT that I use as the UI for my phone, bluetooth storage, etc., would be ideal, not "pointless".

Pointless is having bloated devices that, like bloated software, all try to reproduce each other's capabilities instead of using standard interfaces to lend each other's capabilities to each other. Learn something from the unix pipeline.

[phi]

- so no one has stated if the screen is the same or transflective, i wanna be able to see the screen in the sun

- if they really wanted to make the memory slot smaller, they should've just gone with 2 microSD slots rather than one miniSD slot. I mean seriously, who has anything that actually takes miniSD cards?

- no built in hard cover

- no out of the box DivX/xVid support

- still no PAN bluetooth profile

- charge by USB?
___

Here's a new one, is the screen mushy plastic again? Or do we get a nice glass surface (like the big 800lb gorilla) where it can't be easily scratched and save me the extra 15 bucks from buying another plastic overlay? Did they also throw out Opera altogether?

[arman68]

Changing to miniSD is a mistake, IMO, and it only has one slot? Make that a double mistake.

Putting the d-pad on the slider, ugh, why?

Same here. I would rather have a few more mm and a full size SD slot. As for the D-Pad on the slider, it just does not make sense: this means everytime I need to use, I would have to pop out the keyboard! What a shame... a slide out keyboard is brillant, but the execution unfortunately is not; plus it would be better to make use of the full width and have bigger keys.

I was so excited when I saw the anouncement: keyboard + gps, 2 of the things I most wanted (still no proper game console like control though). Ready to ditch my n800 and get a shiny new n810... Now I am disillusioned: too many design mistakes; I'll skip this version, and hope the next one will rectify the mistakes made here.

[arman68]

Did they also throw out Opera altogether?

Oh yes, Opera... I am the only one who loves opera? I think it's the perfect browser for this kind of device; lean, fast, great desigm and features... Why not keep it, and keep updating it?

[zerojay]

Because it's already old, costs Nokia (and us indirectly) money to be licensed and MicroB (the Gecko rendering engine that will be in Firefox 3.0) is just plain better... and we won't need to wait for Opera to update anything since it's open source. We also have the webkit renderer (KHTML) on the way.

[johnkzin]

What I hope to see for the next IT:

1) tilt screen. _tilt_screen_. TILT SCREEN!!!! (and no N800/N810 style stand, use the slide'n'tilt screen for that)

2) 2 USB, no barrel charger. Mini, micro, powered or not, none of those matter. As long as at least one can be in host mode. (unpowered host is ok, the places where I'd use it, I could use a powered hub)

3) At least 1 full size SD card. 2 would be nice, instead of a dedicated one internally ... but an external mini SD is not appropriate. (I could forgive them for going to microSD, but I really strongly feel that it should be a full size SD ... but not miniSD).

4) dpad center left. escape/menu/home center right.

5) cell phone quality camera, on the back of the device. I don't care one way or the other about a chat cam (I wont use it if it's there, I wont miss it if it's not). Movies optional.

6) some form of video out. Pref. mini-DVI with DVI-A support for video and VGA.

7) bluetooth PAN (without losing bluetooth DUN).

8) control a cell phone with bluetooth HFP, HSP, ICP, PBAP features. Should be able to do that while also using a bluetooth headset with the IT (so, the IT will talk bluetooth to the phone, and bluetooth to the headset).

[dan67sf]

Sigh.....I can't beleive it I just can't beleive it.

Doesn't Nokia listen to it's customers and developers I can't beleive they left out the most important thing on the N810. Yeah it looks all nice with it's slide out keyboard and everything but come on Nokia
"WHERE ARE THE LASERS" that Karel has been requesting? We want LASERS.

Oh Well I guess I'll get the N810 and Duct Tape or Velcro them to the sides.

[johnkzin]

"WHERE ARE THE LASERS"

It's not like these are sharks :-)

[chill633]

I loved my 770, but never got around to getting an 800. I guess my biggest gripe was I considered it a tad too large and seriously ugly. :-)

The 810 looks like a more refined product. I'll have to try out the keyboard to decide if I'm going to sell my Nokia BT one. I'm thinking I may stick with the external, though. It was easy to put the 770 on a stand and just work.

My only hardware gripe would be lack of Jazelle/JTEK support (ARM on-chip Java).

Software wise it looks nice, with only two exceptions. First -- who's leg do you have to hump to get .OGG support built-in? I mean really! I hate having to have a separate media player just for .ogg tracks. It can't be licensing fees or lack of code.

Second would be lack of an AD2P profile for bluetooth. Hopefully this will find its way in via an update.

Does anyone know if, or to what extent, the 2D/3D acceleration built-in to the OMAP2420 is utilized?

http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS6023095418.html

[hordeman]

Wow... about that keyboard...

It's going to do WONDERS for gaming on the device. That part I am jealous about.

[klinglerware]

Software wise it looks nice, with only two exceptions. First -- who's leg do you have to hump to get .OGG support built-in? I mean really! I hate having to have a separate media player just for .ogg tracks. It can't be licensing fees or lack of code.



I'm hoping for native ogg support in the next OS update too. Since the next OS is supporting a myriad of new video formats, there is hope that ogg will find its way in, on the audio side...

[mobiledivide]

Wow... about that keyboard...

It's going to do WONDERS for gaming on the device. That part I am jealous about.

Yeah the only reason I would consider upgrading is because of the gaming capabilities which will be fun on the N810. I would find it hard however to pay $479 for the keyboard and GPS considering I already have a BT keyboard and GPS unit.

[DoS]

Yeah...
Here I was, making the impossible to gather some money to buy the N800 in the end of the year, and now here comes an optimized version that costs twice more! I can't believe how much this is twisting my head.

[Texrat]

As for the D-Pad on the slider, it just does not make sense: this means everytime I need to use, I would have to pop out the keyboard!

Actually it does make sense. The dpad is in proximity to the keyboard, as it should be.

There are alternative ways to accomplish what the dpad did on the touchscreen. Not a worse way of doing things, just different.

[Nik1]

Good thing they integrated built in GPS and maps, I really thought Navicore for the n800 was much too expensive.

Anyone know what OS2008 will bring to the n800?

[keithlm]

Yeah...
Here I was, making the impossible to gather some money to buy the N800 in the end of the year, and now here comes an optimized version that costs twice more! I can't believe how much this is twisting my head.


If the OS2008 does indeed allow the N800 to do the 400MHz... then the other "new features" are not important enough to pay double what the N800 is now selling for EVEN IF YOU DON'T HAVE EITHER AT THE MOMENT. (BTW... all indicators show that the CPU WILL INDEED do 400Mhz on the N800.)

Many if not ALL of the new software features will also be supported by the N800 when the OS2008 update is available. So... it appears that there are several advantages FOR SOME PEOPLE to getting the N800 over the N810.

ADVANTAGES OF THE N800:
1. It is available right now.
2. Price. (Currently $220-ish?)
3. Uses 2x regular SDHC cards.
4. NO slideout keyboard.
5. NO GPS.

Please note my last 2 "advantages". I personally deem them advantages for several reasons: There is no way they can run the GPS and NOT reduce the battery life. Ditto on the lighted keyboard. In addition I worry about the slide mechanism. One more thing to go bad on the unit. I was worried I would "want" a real keyboard when I bought the N800. I now know that I don't want or need it. If I planned on using the unit to send a lot of e-mails then it might be nice; since I don't it isn't. (And it certainly isn't worth $240.00 MORE.)

[sherifnix]

Hardware wise I think the new N810 is 100% on the money.

If the software is good enough to match it, I'll pony up one more time.

I need smooth finger scrolling, good h.264 playback so I can enjoy all my iPhone/iPod formated videos, and hopefully a good port of modest mail. The browser experience was respectable, but painfully held back by sluggishness and lack of "snap" if you know what I mean.

I've gotten used to "flicking" around the pages on my iPhone, so if I have to give that up, I at least want it to be smooth in ITOS 2008. Here's hoping there is more polish this time around... I will await reviews before I even think about spending $479

[jdr93]

is the gps receiver sirfstariii?
will it come preloaded with maps and gps software?

although i use it infrequently i like the rotating camera on my 800 for taking photos (and videos with recorded sound).

as far as gripes go: my own personal gripe is that the n810 does not have an 8 led flashlight capability and red laser pointer. and i wish it was waterproof, so i can have photos of me voiping while snorkeling. (i'll just have to continue to use those zippered baggies, though people will continue to make fun of me)

john

[ascherjim]

If the OS2008 does indeed allow the N800 to do the 400MHz... then the other "new features" are not important enough to pay double what the N800 is now selling for EVEN IF YOU DON'T HAVE EITHER AT THE MOMENT. (BTW... all indicators show that the CPU WILL INDEED do 400Mhz on the N800.)

Many if not ALL of the new software features will also be supported by the N800 when the OS2008 update is available. So... it appears that there are several advantages FOR SOME PEOPLE to getting the N800 over the N810.

ADVANTAGES OF THE N800:
1. It is available right now.
2. Price. (Currently $220-ish?)
3. Uses 2x regular SDHC cards.
4. NO slideout keyboard.
5. NO GPS.

Please note my last 2 "advantages". I personally deem them advantages for several reasons: There is no way they can run the GPS and NOT reduce the battery life. Ditto on the lighted keyboard. In addition I worry about the slide mechanism. One more thing to go bad on the unit. I was worried I would "want" a real keyboard when I bought the N800. I now know that I don't want or need it. If I planned on using the unit to send a lot of e-mails then it might be nice; since I don't it isn't. (And it certainly isn't worth $240.00 MORE.)

I couldn't agree more with this thinking. I only wish more decisions in my life could be made as easy as this one is for me. I don't want or need GPS; I don't need any keyboard more than my current use of either SSH or Frogpad; I don't want to sacrifice my current considerable investment in SDHC flash cards; and I need the ready availability of the dpad for operating my multi-boot menu on booting up. I just hope that what Texrat says (or implies) is true -- that the N810 is being marketed as a supplement to the N800, and not intended as a replacement for it. And that the N800 will continue to benefit from software upgrades into the foreseeable future.

[johnkzin]

Actually it does make sense. The dpad is in proximity to the keyboard, as it should be.

There are alternative ways to accomplish what the dpad did on the touchscreen. Not a worse way of doing things, just different.

Is that going to be different than how it's done on the N800? Because whether it's finger drag scrolling, stylus drag scrolling, or stylus scroll bar scrolling, the dpad is much faster and easier to use, IMO. Which is why I stopped doing the other 3 methods.

(and finger scroll bar scrolling is too difficult to attempt)

So, unless the N810's interface is somehow different in this regard, using the touch screen wont be an acceptable substitute. I'll probably always have the keyboard open.

Plus, as I've harped on many times, the slide out keyboard is not a good ergonomic design. The N800's dpad is in a VERY good position for thumb position. The N810's couldn't be in a worse place, for thumb position, than where it is.

[Viipottaja]

johnkzin,

if you are not desperate for a qwerty keypad and can live without GPS, stick to N800 and be happy. :)

And as for all of the other people, I think the N800 and N810 pair gives an awesome selection/choise: super cheap N800 if you don't need those couple of additions, and the N810 if you do. Simple, clear cut, fairly priced. Nice. IMO. :)

[traveller604]

So N800 vs N810

I can do without the QWERTY keyboard and the GPS. N800 costs me about 260€. I'm guessing N810 would cost me about 200€ more.

What else would that extra 200€ give me.

*20% brighter screen
*1500mAh battery instead of 1300mAh one (what would this translate to in hours?)
*faster cpu or are they going to 'un unclock' the one in N800 with the OS 2008 update?
*2GB storage.. I guess 2GB card costs about 20€ so I just add it to the price so 280€ for N800 and 460€ for N810
*smaller size

Is that all? For 180€ more? I can't really decide. I guess one of the problems is that I'm not quite sure what exactly I'll use the device for. One thing I know for certain is that I'll read ebooks with it. Sure I guess I'll also browse the internet with it. I guess taking notes would be pretty pointless with either of these devices. I mean they're just too slow to type with, even with the QWERTY keyboard. Would be nice if the device was able to play divx movies without any re-encoding or something but I guess that's just not possible..

Any thoughts?

[Noneus]

There not slow to type with. I can type at good speeds on my N800's thumgkeyboard. I must admit. I'm quite torn apart by this device. On the one side there is GPS. That really is a nice thing. But than there is storage capacity.... That's a show stopper for me. One MiniSD card? :/

[johnkzin]

johnkzin,

if you are not desperate for a qwerty keypad and can live without GPS, stick to N800 and be happy. :)


I actually DO want the keyboard. I'm just not happy about some of the particulars in this design. But, we'll see what the next model is like.

[TA-t3]

At this point I think it's pretty safe to say that the N810 is an alternative configuration to the N800, not a replacement and not an upgrade (the small CPU frequency increase is probably just circumstantial because the N810 is produced later, and I suspect it's possible to overclock the N800 anyway - that was always an option for Palm ARM devices). Most of the other features of the N810 are in the software, which will come to the N800 too.

So:
- The N810 comes with a keyboard, and it is also slightly smaller.
- This leads to less available space, which forced some of the
other design issues (lose one card slot, micro-USB, mini SD), as
was explained by David from Nokia over at Ari's blog.
- The keyboard most probably increased the cost.
- The N810 comes with navigation software/maps pre-installed
- Thus, a dedicated additional internal flash area (2GB) was added,
primarily for the maps but the user can access the rest of it for
own purposes.
- Navigation and maps aren't free either, so would also be part of
a cost increase.
- It has a buit-in GPS.

If the keyboard and/or the pre-installed navigation aren't what you're looking for then the N800 might be a better choice, particularly if you're keen on 2 full-size SDHC slots. In any case, GPS and navigation can still be added to the N800.

Lastly, it should be possible for Nokia to, at some stage, come up with a true upgrade to the N800 (keeping N800-features like 2 full-sized SD slots), which could be much less expensive than the N810 because of not having a built-in sliding keyboard or on-board commercial navigation software.

[johnkzin]

If they had done an IT whose only difference from the N800 was the sliding keyboard, then I'd have been happy.

That means:

1) same size as the N800, except maybe the "thin" part of the N800's thickness might be even as thick as the bulge

2) same button placements as the N800 (they wouldn't have to have moved things around the way various people suggested; would have been nice, but the point I'm making is: all of the buttons that the N800 puts on the face should have stayed on the face)

3) 2 full size SD slots

4) I'm agnostic about the GPS feature. Could have added it, could have left it off.


Bonuses like more RAM would have been just fine, and shouldn't have noticeably increased the size of the thing. Increasing the price due to increasing the capacity of the included data card to 2GB would have been fine.

But, just doing the above would have been perfectly ok with me. Doing what they've done has enough "down sides" that I don't know if I want to buy it or not. So, I will most likely wait for the next gen device. Or, since they've said there's going to be 5 steps, maybe I'll wait to see what step 5 looks like.

[Viipottaja]

They may have actually wanted this situation: people wondering which one to get, as they are alternatives rather than a "device >> replacement" succession.

After all, N800 production lines, supply chains etc. etc. were significant investments on their own right, but at this point could be viewed as "sunk costs". Therefore, it makes perfect sense for Nokia from a business point of view to be able to continue to capitalize that investment and sunk cost, by having many people that do not want the N810 extra features to continue buying it. Perhaps some people will see the N810 and go "hmm, that's pretty cool but kinda pricy for me; but hey what's that there, half price, similar features.. why don't I get that one instead!"

Btw, a Nokia executive/manager (forget his name now) in an interview with a Finnish online comp. magazine said that something like "tablet sales are satisfactory and slowly approaching N-Series phone sale figures". Probably the sale figures of say N71 or N90/N93 though. :) I.e. not massive.

[Kny]

I for one, really welcome the addition of a built-in keyboard - almost enough to upgrade my N800. One of the main obstacles to porting apps to the N800 is the input methods. Look at, for example, the RDP client (windows remote desktop) or Dosbox. Both apps work nicely on the N800, but you can't really use it because the virtual keyboard doesn't know it has to pop up when you activate an input area. If you have a BT keyboard, all is fine. I mean, literally, just compile Dosbox in scratchbox ARM target(no hacking needed!), copy to N800 along with Doom install files, and 10 minutes later you'll be hacking away at imps using your chainsaw. The frustration of knowing that this is all it takes when you don't have a BT keyboard around, is mind-numbing... The addition of the keyboard will make the life of many a non-GTK application porter so much easier - leading to many more applications ported.

I would however have liked to keep the SD card slots. I don't think the extra 3-4 millimeters in size is a problem. Either it will fit in your pocket or it wont - 3 mm doesn't change that.

[pierro78]

They said memory cards (plural) so that implies two...
looks like there's only one memory card slot, right ? :(

[TA-t3]

Yes. I believe the plural refered to multiple types of cards, i.e. micro-SD and mini-SD.

[Texrat]

The discussion is starting to become more objective and meaningful... thanks TA-t3. ;)

[Roc Ingersol]

I'm warming up to the idea of a slide-out keyboard. So long as I can still use the touch thumbboard for typing, i can just consider the hwkb to be a slide-out gaming controller. (it will make dosbox alot easier to use)

Not too awful.

SD -> miniSD? It happens. Every device is sliding down to the smaller slots. We pick up USB OTG though, and imo that more than makes up for it.

GPS is neat and I'd worry about what that does to the battery life. Except that I don't need GPS most times. I'd imagine that we can turn off the GPS as we can do with BT and wifi atm. And if so, we likely gain quite a bit of usable time. win-win.
(assuming the battery life estimates are with the GPS radio on. Which I'd imagine they are, since the n800 estimates are inline with having the wifi radio on.)

The new form-factor is seriously sexy. Points for the ambient light sensor, transflective screen and keeping the kickstand. Does this thing have a rugged anti-scratch glass screen ala thatOnePhone? It'd be a seriously awesome addition and the increased weight/price of the device makes me wonder if its not already there.

[exon]

The new form-factor is seriously sexy. Points for the ambient light sensor, transflective screen and keeping the kickstand.

Did the screen change from the N800? Is that what was meant by "20% brighter"?

[miemsl]

Yep, new transflective screen, better for outdoor use. Light sensor for better viewing ergonomics in dark, that's good. Still plastic foil touch though.

[exon]

Another question - what is the significance of the USB OTG support? I have a external 2.5" drive that I use to suck photos from a card reader, so I understand the On-The-Go concept. But what capabilities does this support give the N810, and how is it different from Host mode (which I know isn't supported officially)? Could one, for example, mount and access a flash drive via the USB port?

As a general comment, I've been lurking here for several months just itching to buy a N800. I decided to wait to see what the new tablet would be and think I'll spend the extra to get the N810. Perhaps unlike a lot of other posters I think Nokia made some great decisions with it and, like Texrat has suggested many times, they're trying to learn from the 770-800 transition. They've given more choice to the product line and they're very obviously supporting N800 owners. To me "it's not much different than a N800" is actually a good thing.

Maybe looking at Nokia's phones is a good model for how they're positioning the IT line. The E51 just came out recently - is it really that much different than the E65 except for the form factor? Both are supported, both run the exact same OS. If the IT market was out there then 3 or 4 models with different configurations would give people options for what features work best for them. Perhaps that's where they're going...

[Roc Ingersol]

what capabilities does this support give the N810, and how is it different from Host mode (which I know isn't supported officially)? Could one, for example, mount and access a flash drive via the USB port?OTG gives you limited host mode without the power drain of host. It's not as flexible as having true host mode, but two OTG devices talking won't be as big a drain on your battery. And yeah, if your flash drive is OTG-compliant, it should mount as external storage on the n810. (whether it shows up as another 'device' or just mounts as a storage location is up to the OS guys, but either way we should be able to access it as easily as any other storage location)

The big capabilities imo are n810/mass storage (camera/HDD/phone), n810/printer and n810/n810.

[LAGMonkey]

well i know that the N800 has the OTG chip inside it so maybe with the new OS this will be enabled on the N800 too?

[dirge]

Learn something from the unix pipeline.

Speaking of which, where's the pipe symbol on the keyboard? :( Sigh, remapping time...

[Schprlock]

I think the new device is almost perfect. But what makes it not perfect also makes it absolute crap.
Yes, the makert is moving towards smaller, but what about standards? One can argue that miniSD and microSD are also standard, but they are ridiculous standards (especially mini - micro could be useful for watches or stuff like that).
Full size SH could also use miniSD and microSD, but the opposite is not true.

I have been using pocketPCs for more than 10 years and I did think they were the best until I bought my 770.
When the n800 came out I bought it instantly and I thought that the big mistakes in the 770 were corrected (especially the almost-nokia-only RS-MMC).
Even if I thought the n800 was the best and even if I had (have) the 770 and the n800, as soon as I first saw the n810 I thought "I HAVE TO GET IT!". I would have kept all three and I would still have though it was money well spent. Until I heard there is no full size SD support...

I have an 8GB SD card that I bought not so long ago, and another 4GB card. That's almost €200 (or at least is was when I bought them)! And now I am expected to throw them away and spend the money again on worst, most expensive and NOT (at least in my opinion) standard cards.

Everything else about the n810 was my dreams come true... But without full size SD support, I will have to pass and feel really, really bad. The n810 went from an absolutely perfect machine to one that is of no use to me.

I am keeping my 770 and N800 and keep dreaming.

[Viipottaja]

The iPhone type screen would have made the thing even more expensive, and is probably not that great for stylus use anyway.

[Schprlock]

I am sorry, I am so disappointed I can't stop complaining... It was so close to perfection!...
Nokia says they changed the card type because they couldn't fit a full size SD. I must say that is a terrible reason... I wouldn't have minded at all if the size as the same as the N800.
What's the N820 gonna be like? Matchbox size but with a 320x240 screen, no keyboard, no wifi, no bluetooth... because that wouldn't fit the size?
No matter what people say about microsoft, they have great products, and windows mobile is on of them. But no MS device so far has matched the n800 (or 770 for the matter) usability. And they are smaller! But the screen is unusable for a rich internet experience...

I really have no words for such a mistake (yet I can't seem to stop complaining... sorry... I'll try not to repeat it).

[Texrat]

I am sorry, I am so disappointed I can't stop complaining... It was so close to perfection!...
Nokia says they changed the card type because they couldn't fit a full size SD. I must say that is a terrible reason... I wouldn't have minded at all if the size as the same as the N800.
What's the N820 gonna be like? Matchbox size but with a 320x240 screen, no keyboard, no wifi, no bluetooth... because that wouldn't fit the size?
No matter what people say about microsoft, they have great products, and windows mobile is on of them. But no MS device so far has matched the n800 (or 770 for the matter) usability. And they are smaller! But the screen is unusable for a rich internet experience...

I really have no words for such a mistake (yet I can't seem to stop complaining... sorry... I'll try not to repeat it).

...

I actually think size concerns are a VERY good reason to change card formats to the smaller. Yeah, it's an inconvenience, but it makes sense to me. Heck, I would have understood even more if they had gone with MICRO sd.

And do note that the screen size stayed the same. Getting the overall size down while maintaining screen size was the right goal IMO.

[whatever7]

I will not buy a 810 simply base on the principle of the SD->miniSD change over. I may consider a n800 for 60 more if it includes a GPS receiver.

However....I probably won't buy it anyway simply becuase I like TomTom better and I don't like Nokia's subscription model.

[sandos]

Maybe looking at Nokia's phones is a good model for how they're positioning the IT line. The E51 just came out recently - is it really that much different than the E65 except for the form factor? Both are supported, both run the exact same OS. If the IT market was out there then 3 or 4 models with different configurations would give people options for what features work best for them. Perhaps that's where they're going...

Ahem, E65 and E51 are not the same software. I in the end decided against the E65 because it wont upgrade firmware via USB, nor does it have fp1 which enables OTA firmware upgrades. E51 has fp1 though. I am looking closely at the E51 though.

[sherifnix]

Texrat,

I too feel that the move to mini SD is fine. The N810 is a step in all the right directions. It needs to be pocketable, contain a good amount of built in flash, navigation, and a keyboard. Tons of new stuff, at the cost of a full size memory card? Maemo has very basic media functionality, I sure wouldn't use it for 16gb of music. iPods and iPhones are much better for that.

A few gigs of tunes and movies is just fine for an Internet based device.

[johnkzin]

I don't want an iPod for storing my music. That'd just be one more device that has to touch my hands.

Here's what I want: official out of the box support for bluetooth hard drives. Preferably something transparent to the user (can you do NFS or CIFS over bluetooth-PAN? if so, then add bluetooth-PAN to the internet tablets, and make sure the Seagate DAVE and Agere BlueOnyx support that).

I'll only buy another iPod if it comes with Bluetooth and supports exporting its files to other bluetooth devies, via Bluetooth FTP or NFS/CIFS/Apple-File-Sharing-Protocol via Bluetooth PAN.

[exon]

Ahem, E65 and E51 are not the same software. I in the end decided against the E65 because it wont upgrade firmware via USB, nor does it have fp1 which enables OTA firmware upgrades. E51 has fp1 though. I am looking closely at the E51 though.

That's true, they both run S60 but the E51 has the fp1 update that I believe has some usability and visual improvements. I think it's maybe tangential to the point I was trying (perhaps poorly) to make, which is that Nokia has many phones in the E-series all with slightly different specs and form factors but all doing essentially the same thing. E61i with bigger screen and a keyboard versus E51 which focuses on being teeny and sleek.

My naive impression is that Nokia is trying to build an IT line around the same concept.

[Texrat]

My naive impression is that Nokia is trying to build an IT line around the same concept.

That's not so naive. ;)

[enewmen]

"3.5 mm stereo headphone plug (Nokia AV Connector)"

TV/video out?

I also want to know if there is ANY hope for simple A/V out on the N810? It's a shame for this device to support so many video formats and no way to get the video OUT.

[GeneralAntilles]

I also want to know if there is ANY hope for simple A/V out on the N810? It's a shame for this device to support so many video formats and no way to get the video OUT.

Not unless you want to dive in and start soldering BGAs.

The pre-alpha release seems to suggest that the RX-51 will have TV out, however.

[killdeer]

Nice Necro-Bump! This thread is older than my grandma.