I’m Offended! F**k Mitch Wagner!

[Sadavyk]

read the link
http://www.informationweek.com/blog/main/archives/2007/10/first_glance_th.html

[sachin007]

And more....

http://www.informationweek.com/blog/main/archives/2007/10/nokia_m810_tabl.html

[whatever7]

Well it IS overpriced, even Palm had the good sense to cancel the Foleo at the imminent release of the E PC. This thing shouldn't cost more than $80 over the n800. Who do they think they are, Nokia the brand name means nothing in America.

[sachin007]

Well it IS overpriced, even Palm had the good sense to cancel the Foleo at the imminent release of the E PC. This thing shouldn't cost more than $80 over the n800. Who do they think they are, Nokia the brand name means nothing in America.

Then why not buy the n800 and get on with it??

[Texrat]

Mitch seems to be unaware of the N800. I'm thinking they should have been almost as prominent at the Web 2.0 summit as the N810s. That would have helped clarify things.

Also, based on some comments, the word of the bluetooth-phone-as-a-modem feature does not seem to be getting out. People scoff at the tablets based on disdain of wifi. Nokia needs to better emphasize the bluetooth capabilities while ubiquitous wifi is still a pipe(less) dream.

[Sadavyk]

And more....

http://www.informationweek.com/blog/main/archives/2007/10/nokia_m810_tabl.html

I tip my hat to Chris for standing up for the n810/n800
Cheers to him

and Mitch Wager is just an 'apple fan boy' i hope i phone falls in the Toilet!

[whatever7]

Then why not buy the n800 and get on with it??


He didn't review the n800 did he? Maybe Nokia should push the n800 to the faces of these blogger n00bs in these "media summits"?

[Texrat]

If a blogger begins with "I don't understand this device", I dismiss his opinion right off the bat. In my opinion if they don't get it quickly, they are in the wrong business. And yes, that means in 5 minutes or less.

[Capt'n Corrupt]

Considering everything that you get in the package, especially that you don't need some crazy subscription plan, the N810 actually an amazing value. The N800 is even *more* of a value.

It's unfortunate that the myopic nature of people tend to compare only retail cost and not consider the functionality or additional costs (if any). There is a large difference between cost and value.


}:^)~
YARR!!

Ca-puh-tin

[Texrat]

Absolutely.

Putting the power of a low-end laptop in my pocket has immeasureable value to me.

I've actually traveled to business meetings overseas with only my N800 and handled almost everything with it. The only drawback I encountered was not being able to see my personal email folders using the Outlook web client-- and the latest version solves that (we just have not deployed it yet).

[sachin007]

I hate how most of the American's are blinded by Apple's i crap.

[Texrat]

I hate how most of the American's are blinded by Apple's i crap.

Anyone sucked in by Apple's liberal hype is probably susceptible to it in general. I can't blame Apple for developing an effective campaign-- they're in business to make money.

On the other hand, Nokia's ultraconservative approach leaves something to be desired. I know there's a respectable middle ground between the two extremes.

[Sadavyk]

Well it IS overpriced, even Palm had the good sense to cancel the Foleo at the imminent release of the E PC. This thing shouldn't cost more than $80 over the n800. Who do they think they are, Nokia the brand name means nothing in America.

I don't think the price is to high just think of the folks who when out and got the I phone $399 and like Mitch Wagner $60 a year for two years here's the math $399+$60 for two years =$1959 and taxes come on.
And you're telling me $500 is too much????? HOW

[sachin007]

I don't think the price is to high just think of the folks who when out and got the I phone $399 and like Mitch Wagner $60 a year for two years here's the math $399+$60 for two years =$1959 and taxes come on.
And you're telling me $500 is too much????? HOW

As far as i can remember the iphone(4gb) at launch(we are talking about launch here) was 499$ so add 100 to that figure.

[anidel]

I've read both articles.. his main argument "the IT is not a phone" and you need to buy one to connect from everywhere is plain wrong: whoever is going to buy to IT already HAS a phone to pair it with.

Putting a phone IN the IT WILL ACTUALLY force you to pay another phone (the IT itself!) and at a higher price (as it'll be a very nice fully featured and very capable phone).

I think he totally missed the point here.

But I have to admit that MANY of my friends always ask me: is this a phone ?
My answer: no, it was not meant to be.
Their complain: why not? it'd be the top with a phone inside.

Again: 5 minutes of usage, won't help you understand the Internet Tablet idea.

[Texrat]

Again: 5 minutes of usage, won't help you understand the Internet Tablet idea.

I'll still quibble with that, with the qualifier that professional bloggers SHOULD be able to size it up in that amount of time. Folks that deal with such devices on a regular basis should have that skill IMO.

[Capt'n Corrupt]

Absolutely.

Putting the power of a low-end laptop in my pocket has immeasureable value to me.

I've actually traveled to business meetings overseas with only my N800 and handled almost everything with it. The only drawback I encountered was not being able to see my personal email folders using the Outlook web client-- and the latest version solves that (we just have not deployed it yet).

Precisely...

I foresee using it for the same reason, with an additional ultra-compact bluetooth keyboard for faster input, and a bluetooth headset for private calls. Hell, it can even keep me entertained before the meeting, with surfing, music, or an e-book that I'm reading *and* get me to the very meeting without getting lost.


}:^)~
YARR!!

Mc C

[zerojay]

I've read both articles.. his main argument "the IT is not a phone" and you need to buy one to connect from everywhere is plain wrong: whoever is going to buy to IT already HAS a phone to pair it with.

Putting a phone IN the IT WILL ACTUALLY force you to pay another phone (the IT itself!) and at a higher price (as it'll be a very nice fully featured and very capable phone).

I think he totally missed the point here.

But I have to admit that MANY of my friends always ask me: is this a phone ?
My answer: no, it was not meant to be.
Their complain: why not? it'd be the top with a phone inside.

Again: 5 minutes of usage, won't help you understand the Internet Tablet idea.

I don't have a phone to pair it with nor do I want one. ;)

[anidel]

I don't have a phone to pair it with nor do I want one. ;)

So you don't want you tablet to be a phone, do you ? ;)

[Capt'n Corrupt]

I don't have a phone to pair it with nor do I want one. ;)

You and me both.

For me, I use SIP. It's ultra cheap and increasingly free (as more people hop onboard and there are bridges between different protocols). With WiMAX it will have the reach of the cellular, but in the meantime WiFi at home, the office, airports, hotels (though spotty), cafes/restaurants is fine with me. Just one less cost/device to worry about.


}:^)~
YARR!!

Crapt'n

[anidel]

I'll still quibble with that, with the qualifier that professional bloggers SHOULD be able to size it up in that amount of time. Folks that deal with such devices on a regular basis should have that skill IMO.

Many people are just looking for the N95-like gadget: all-in-one.
I was one of them until I encountered the Nokia 770.

That changed all. I like to have a phone to make calls and act as modem when needed and the tablet for everything else.

The key is the screen. To make calls you don't need a huge screen. But you probably want to carry your cellphone almost everywhere, almost always (Saturday nights with friends, for example).

But you do want a larger, crisp screen to surf the web, to guide you with clear directions and bla bla that you can carry in the backpack (that you might not want to carry when going out with friends).

You simply can't have both. Or if you do, you have to sacrifice something: screen for the N95, GSM with the tablet. And you can try to help in both cases (zooming and panning in the N95, VoIP calls on the tablet). Kudos to Nokia for providing both. Apple got it too: they're planning a new PDA. The real IT competitor.
We'll see.

[kingka]

I have a phone, small and cheap which I constantly drop, forget at home, or lose. last thing i want to do is bust out this brick to make a phonecall at a club and have it fall to the ground in my drunken haze. which is the reason why i'm glad it's not a phone.

[penguinbait]

Well he went to a event and played with it for five minutes. One might argue he wasn't paying attention. Another might argure Nokia marketing not working so well!!

Nokia designs great hardware, if only the rest of Nokia could catch up to that greatness.

[Fadsjeik]

Gotta agree with penguinbait here. I didn't know this Mitch Wagner, but I guess there are a lot of people out there who do listen to what he has to say, so overestimating his intelligence is deadly. I can understand the disappointment of Texrat and others, but it is nokia that is trying to get a message across, so it is nokia that should put in every effort to influence the opinions of people like Mitch.

For some reason the N810 is just not as impressive as the Iphone at first sight. Anybody who first sees an Iphone is immediately impressed by what it can do (or in case of IT owners, what it can't do ;)). My experience with showing my N800 to my friends is that it takes some time and convincing to get them to see the value.

For a mass market product this is a big flaw! Just think of how many people bought Windows Vista for the Aero interface (looks cool, something to show to other people, but totally useless).

I think nokia doesn't realize that their product doesn't have this natural 'coolness'. Else they would double up on their convincing efforts and Mitch wouldn't have walked away disappointed.

[penguinbait]

Fadsjeik, Exactly!!

I think that part of the problem is that Nokia has not played up the fact about all the available software for the IT. This seems to be changing, and they are trying to promote well polished opensourced projects for the masses, but they need to step up the list so people dont have to go looking. These projects are a major asset for this platform, maybe the biggest asset for those who know what they are holding in thier hands..

[belder]

The article reads:An expensive, limited-function device with no clear purpose.He just described my life!

[sachin007]

I totally agree nokia sucks at advertising products... especially the tablets. I equally loath the way apple hype there products. As texrat mentioned there should be a sweet middle spot somewhere in between and nokia should strive to hit that spot. Considering that nokia was always like that which some people attribute it to finnish attitude(being modest) i would take modesty any day for hype. That is because as a techie person i do my research and do not fall for hype. But unfortunately the remaining 95% of the people just fall for hype just because their preferences are different and cannot spend that much time on analyzing technology.

[zerojay]

So you don't want you tablet to be a phone, do you ? ;)

Nope, but I use it as one. :)

[sachin007]

Nope, but I use it as one. :)

I think nokia should sell two versions of it one with a phone functionality built in and another without. SO that we have a choice..

Can someone make a poll for the inclusion of with/without phone??

[penguinbait]

I think nokia should sell two versions of it one with a phone functionality built in and another without. SO that we have a choice..

Can someone make a poll for the inclusion of with/without phone??

I personally like the fact that I can have a phone be a phone, yet still provide me access to internet. I want my phone to make calls, my IT is a computer. Why dont we put phones in laptops? its the same concept isn't it?. With phone capabilities this would be the ultimate hacker tool, not that it isn't already...

[Milhouse]

I see Mike Cane makes an appearance commenting against the first article - he really is a sad, bitter and twisted individual! :(

As for Nokia marketing, I caught a TV advert for the Nokia 6500 Classic phone last night. What struck me is the number of times during the advert that Nokia told me "You'll want it". Can you imagine Apple trying this? The device should sell itself! I shouldn't need a sultry voice convincing me to buy it and this is where Nokia marketing seems to be lacking - don't tell me it's great, let the device do the talking. But in a way the same applies to the NITs - they don't sell themselves and most people have to be convinced of their usefulness, and in the case of this Mitch Wagner character he clearly wasn't convinced (although I do get the impression he just doesn't "get it" - I feel his thinking is as follows: It's a Nokia, therefore it should be a cellular phone, but because his preconcieved ideas are fundamentally flawed his opinion of the device takes a major downturn).

If NITs are to go mainstream there has to be more obvious consumer appeal - having hidden depths of ability is lost on 5-minute reviewers and the general public alike.

EDIT: I only mention Apple in contrast to Nokia in that Apple are a design-led organisation, and I don't wish to start another Apple vs. Nokia debate! :)

[anidel]

I know I am off topic with this entry, but I just wanted to say that I really like the "quality" of the people writing in this forum and that write around the IT thing in general.

I never had such an impression with other devices' community before.

[zerojay]

I live in Canada and I can't say I've ever seen an ad from Nokia. I have, however, seen ads with Nokia phones from providers... which is probably why Nokia's marketing is as it is. It relies on the carriers to do that.

Of course, that doesn't much help our beloved tablets.

I think it's quite clear that Mitch didn't get it, nor did he even try to get it. It was just another in a long list of phones, gadgets and so on that he gets to play with beforehand that wasn't labeled Apple and so wasn't worthy of more than 5 minutes.

[pixelseventy2]

As for Nokia marketing, I caught a TV advert for the Nokia 6500 Classic phone last night.

Mil, I'm from the UK too, and I've seen those adverts. You get to the end and go "oh, a Nokia" then forget about it. The "I'm a PC, I'm a g1t" adverts may be annoying, but you remember them. Which is a real shame, as some of Nokia's products really should sell themselves (the 6500 classic being a prime example; it just needs HSDPA)

Looking at the screen shots of something like poky linux (I'm waiting for a stable release before I try to brick my n800) I wonder if a simpler UI like that might make iDiots like Wagner more accommodating towards the n8xx devices

[Sadavyk]

I saw thought fix you tube video on the n800 and that was all I needed to buy mines, and when I heard of Internettablettalk.com it evenly sweeten the deal

[Roc Ingersol]

I do like that I have the n800 when and where I want it, and that I have 'just a phone' for when I don't need/care about the n800.

However. The n810 is not appreciably larger than an acceptably-sized cellphone. And personally I'm hoping the n900 is smaller-still, basically just the size of the screen. At that size - I'd definitely be up for an all-in-one.

They should absolutely retain a non-phone model, but Nokia would be walking away from a large stack of money if the n900 didn't have a counterpart that included phone.

[ihavenothingprofoundtosay]

They should absolutely retain a non-phone model, but Nokia would be walking away from a large stack of money if the n900 didn't have a counterpart that included phone.

I agree - I'd love to see a phone module added to this style of device: an internet tablet with a phone as an add on, NOT the other way around. Phone calls aren't nearly as important to me as data, and there are lots of people out there (probably a lot on this forum) who'd drop their "other" device if they had the option of carrying a not-quite-laptop that could also take regular phone calls. I'd love to see an unlocked GSM voice only module added to the NIT, because that would be an ideal device for me, and probably many others. Adding a data chip would be a solid step toward redundancy with S60 phones, but a "phone" running Maemo would be an incredible tool.

Compare that to the iPhone: no carrier choice (w/extremely limited plan choice), limited software choices, locked interface (iTunes only). I love Apple computers, but the iPhone just isn't an option for me. Wagner makes a serious mistake in thinking the iPhone is a be-all, end-all of phones.

[Capt'n Corrupt]

They should absolutely retain a non-phone model, but Nokia would be walking away from a large stack of money if the n900 didn't have a counterpart that included phone.


Totally. Options are good.


}:^)~
YARR!!

The Corruption Corporation

[Hedgecore]

Tex: Apple liberal!? Nokia conservative!?

One of them lets you run unsigned code on their devices.

[earl00]

most of you guys are worst than apple fanboys with this nokia crap. As soon as someone has a different experience with it ie. a negative one, then "they don't get it".

Just because you don't like the "i" apple stuff should your option be ignored or as textrat says: "I dismiss his opinion right off the bat."

come on, grow up textrat. everyone has their own experiences and criticism. if you like it buy it, but if someone else doesn't, let them have that opinion not to buy it.

and as sachin007 said: "I hate how most of the American's are blinded by Apple's i crap."

Maybe they think your blinded. You dismiss everyone's negative experience on something just because you have a different (positive) experience with it. You are bias and most of you need to just continue like those apple fanboys you so hate, but instead keep sucking nokia's nob. i know you have to textrat, but everyone else - you should know better.

[kingka]

anyone catch hereos on monday? that was some crazy ****!

[penguinbait]

most of you guys are worst than apple fanboys with this nokia crap. As soon as someone has a different experience with it ie. a negative one, then "they don't get it".

Just because you don't like the "i" apple stuff should your option be ignored or as textrat says: "I dismiss his opinion right off the bat."

come on, grow up textrat. everyone has their own experiences and criticism. if you like it buy it, but if someone else doesn't, let them have that opinion not to buy it.

and as sachin007 said: "I hate how most of the American's are blinded by Apple's i crap."

Maybe they think your blinded. You dismiss everyone's negative experience on something just because you have a different (positive) experience with it. You are bias and most of you need to just continue like those apple fanboys you so hate, but instead keep sucking nokia's nob. i know you have to textrat, but everyone else - you should know better.


hehehehehehehehehe hahahahahhaha hhehehehheeh

[whatever7]

Personally, I have a smartphone (Treo 700p), a Nokia n800 and an iPhone. When I use my gadgets in front of my friends, the iPhone impresses my friends far more than the n800. Especially the girls go gaga oover the iPhone, which I use only for music/video podcast and frankly the phone function is just ok (voice too low).

So if you are going to accuse someone "who don't get it", just to be sure that alot of people out there don't "get" the n800/n810 tablets. I need a tablet because I want a mini laptop replacement due to the nature of my job. However IMO most people don't need an internet tablet, therefore they don't get it.

[Capt'n Corrupt]

@earl00
Just because you don't like the "i" apple stuff should your option be ignored or as textrat says: "I dismiss his opinion right off the bat."

But, notice that he qualified his original statement with:

If a blogger begins with "I don't understand this device",

This statement completely invalidates your argument. You see, you're not actually responding to his original argument, but to a different argument consisting of a made up premise and Texrat's conclusion.

When piecing together rational arguments its best to do it with a clear head and rational.


}:^)~
YARR!!

[ Capt'n Corrupt ]

[sachin007]

most of you guys are worst than apple fanboys with this nokia crap. As soon as someone has a different experience with it ie. a negative one, then "they don't get it".

Just because you don't like the "i" apple stuff should your option be ignored or as textrat says: "I dismiss his opinion right off the bat."

come on, grow up textrat. everyone has their own experiences and criticism. if you like it buy it, but if someone else doesn't, let them have that opinion not to buy it.

and as sachin007 said: "I hate how most of the American's are blinded by Apple's i crap."

Maybe they think your blinded. You dismiss everyone's negative experience on something just because you have a different (positive) experience with it. You are bias and most of you need to just continue like those apple fanboys you so hate, but instead keep sucking nokia's nob. i know you have to textrat, but everyone else - you should know better.

Okay let us not make this any more uglier.
what do you thinK are the shortcomings to what nokia promised???
Go ahead and make a list....we will try to make you as happy as we can ..

[YoDude]

Okay let us not make this any more uglier.
what do you thinK are the shortcomings to what nokia promised???
Go ahead and make a list....we will try to make you as happy as we can ..

Maybe it's as Wagner said...

I don't like the Nokia N810 because I'm fat and it's not chocolate-covered...

I had to laugh :D

[Milhouse]

most of you guys are worst than apple fanboys with this nokia crap. As soon as someone has a different experience with it ie. a negative one, then "they don't get it".

I'm cool if someone doesn't like a Nokia tablet, but I'd like them to have a valid reason for not liking a Nokia tablet.

This guy Wagner has reviewed the N810 with several unfounded preconceptions, and it shows - it's a crap review.


Even the name is misleading -- a "tablet" should be a device the size of a notebook computer; the Nokia N810 is a pocket-sized computer.

WTF? So now he's p1ssed because it's called a tablet yet it's small and dinky and not large and heavy? OK... good start.


To use the device, you connect over a Wi-Fi network, or a Bluetooth mobile phone.

And that's its main drawback -- you're paying nearly $500 for a device that only connects over Wi-Fi, and you need to spend more money on another smartphone if you want to connect over other wireless networks.

He clearly wants it to *be* a cellular phone too, but it's not a cellular phone. It's not meant to be a cellular phone. Was he asleep when class were given this information? He then goes on to claim you need a smartphone for non-WiFi connections - ********, any PoS phone with Bluetooth will work. He really doesn't seem to be the smartest tool in the box, but he does sound as though he's got an agenda (pro Apple, or anti Nokia I'm not sure - but he's not neutral).

Ultimately the entire "review" is flawed by his preconceived ideas of what the Nokia tablet should be, and he's disappointed because it isn't what he was expecting. That's poor journalism - he's not reviewed this device and considered why it's designed the way it is and the possibilities it offers, he's only reviewed how it's isn't designed the way he thinks it should be.

[kotzkind]

I think nokia should sell two versions of it one with a phone functionality built in and another without. SO that we have a choice..

Can someone make a poll for the inclusion of with/without phone??


a bluetooth upgrade in size of an usb stick would be better.

[YoDude]

I think nokia should sell two versions of it one with a phone functionality built in and another without. SO that we have a choice..

Can someone make a poll for the inclusion of with/without phone??

They will eventually add a cell phone... and that's just what others don't "get".

Any portable gadget should evolve into something that reduces the number of gadgets you carry around.

Cell phones are doing it... They have gotten quite good at playing, and storing personal music, picture, and videos. So good that it was beginning to erode sales of iPODS. Digital camera sales are eroding as well.

Apple had to fight back by developing a phone that plays personal music, picture, and videos at their standard (the level at which they have evolved), not a cell phones manufacureres...



...but that's it. Inclusion of a web browser was only so they could control how their web content was delivered and that's all. Other sites were secondary. In fact if you want your content to display correctly on their phone you have to reformat your site (YouTube).

Reformat a site for the needs of one manufacturers devices?
That's just the opposite of what HTML was all about.
That way stifles development and stunts evolution.

But that's also the way of most cell phone manufactures in the USA not just Apple. It is what the customer wants...
In the US the customer is not you or I... it's the cell carriers!
They want the same thing Apple wants... the means to charge you for what you see and hear using their product.

Because of this top down approach evolution will stop when they have accomplished that and can predict a rate of return on their investment.

Nokia's tablet philosophy seems to be from the bottom up. I hope the last thing they do is add a cell phone. (Pro'ly the easiest thing for a cell manufacturer to do; doncha think?) If it is truly a bottom up approach, that would mean that all other means of connectivity (free) have been explored and have evolved. :)

We are part of that evolution.

If you purchase enough things because of how they are marketed to you well, you are exactly the customer that Apple and US cell carriers are looking for and I doubt you will ever "get" alternative thinking.

Edit: (The "you" in the above statement is rhetorical and not aimed at anyone. sachin007's statement was only quoted to get my rant started... Peace :) )

[Texrat]

Just because you don't like the "i" apple stuff should your option be ignored or as textrat says: "I dismiss his opinion right off the bat."

You really don't understand at all the context of what I said, do you?

Ironic.

[YoDude]

You really don't understand at all the context of what I said, do you?

Ironic.

Now why would you follow up my long post with just one sentence of flame bait?

Boy, I feel dumb...

I didn't realize that continuing a flame war and adding no additional information to the topic at hand was the purpose of this thread...

I'll just be quiet now... :(

[Texrat]

I'm terribly sorry YoDude. I didn't realize that baiting ME was the purpose of the thread. I'll bow to your superior wisdom and avoid asking further questions. :rolleyes:

EDIT: you do realize I wasn't addressing you... right?

[Texrat]

Tex: Apple liberal!? Nokia conservative!?

One of them lets you run unsigned code on their devices.

Oops... missed this one Hedgie, sorry.

I'm referring to promotional styles only.

[benny1967]

MI like to have a phone to make calls and act as modem when needed and the tablet for everything else.

The key is the screen. To make calls you don't need a huge screen. But you probably want to carry your cellphone almost everywhere, almost always (Saturday nights with friends, for example).

But you do want a larger, crisp screen to surf the web, to guide you with clear directions and bla bla that you can carry in the backpack (that you might not want to carry when going out with friends).

You simply can't have both. Or if you do, you have to sacrifice something: screen for the N95, GSM with the tablet. And you can try to help in both cases (zooming and panning in the N95, VoIP calls on the tablet). Kudos to Nokia for providing both. Apple got it too: they're planning a new PDA. The real IT competitor.
We'll see.

You're so right! I'll never understand why people are so obsessed by the idea it "should be a phone". They all seem to assume potential tablet-owners dont have cell phones already and the big drawback is they need to buy 2 devices.

In real life, people do have cell phones already (most of the people I know have at least two). Putting all the phone stuff into the tablet wouldnt come for free: it would increase size and cost. I dont see any advantage in forcing people to buy yet another cell phone (because its built in) when all they want is an internet device.

Only if the tablet series one day will have 3, 4 or 5 up-to-date models (like the N800 and N810 now) that are sold with slightly different configurations I could imagine one of these models to include a phone; there might be customers who really happen to need a new phone at the same time they buy a tablet, so this would be for them.

[Fadsjeik]

Actually, I don't expect there to be different models. It would probably be more expensive to assemble different models, then to just include a cellphone capabilities in each model. If you don't want to use it as a cell-phone, then just do not insert a sim card.

I actually suspect that nokia didn't include cell capabilities in the tablets, because it would upset the carriers too much. Think about it, there are hardly any devices around which allow you to make VOIP calls and cell calls. In fact there are numerous cases when the carriers block the usage of skype and others on the phones. With the current tablets, anybody who owns it would still have to carry around a cell, so it won't upset anybody. If the VOIP/cell combination becomes more mature, then nokia will have one of the best devices around with the N900 and a mature platform (maemo).

I for one understand very well that people want it to be a phone as well, because why shouldn't it be a phone! Of course everybody has a cell, but if the N800 could make cell calls, I'd ditch my cell straight away. Probably only taking it with me when going out at night.

[YoDude]

You're so right! I'll never understand why people are so obsessed by the idea it "should be a phone". They all seem to assume potential tablet-owners dont have cell phones already and the big drawback is they need to buy 2 devices.

In real life, people do have cell phones already (most of the people I know have at least two). Putting all the phone stuff into the tablet wouldnt come for free: it would increase size and cost. I dont see any advantage in forcing people to buy yet another cell phone (because its built in) when all they want is an internet device.

Only if the tablet series one day will have 3, 4 or 5 up-to-date models (like the N800 and N810 now) that are sold with slightly different configurations I could imagine one of these models to include a phone; there might be customers who really happen to need a new phone at the same time they buy a tablet, so this would be for them.


... and a lot of this has to do with the US market that ties cell phones to 2 year service contracts. Why buy a tablet that is tied to a carrier?

Leaving a cell phone out will allow a cell phone to be just a cell phone again. I would love a small form factor, rugged, water resistant phone with BT that seamlessly allows me to connect to a data network when I'm carrying a tablet, and is also small enough not to be intrusive when I'm not.

There are plenty of activities that do not require the features of the tablet (or a bulky smart phone) but would be safer, easier, more convenient if a cell phone was available.

BTW benny1967, thanks for continuing this discussion.

***

Speaking of small form factors...

>> http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/26/samsung-patent-app-details-wris****ch-cellphone-hybrid/

Maybe not a realistic solution but another example of alternative thinking...

[benny1967]

Actually, I don't expect there to be different models. It would probably be more expensive to assemble different models,....

There already are 2 models: N800 and N810.

[Fadsjeik]

There already are 2 models: N800 and N810.

Sure, they have different hardware, but the basis is the same (screen, wifi, processor, bluetooth). So what I meant was that if there were to be cell functionality integrated into the tablets one day, then it would probably be in all tablets, because it would most likely be a feature that is embedded in the basis. To manufacture ITs with different basic components would probably be too expensive.

[convulted]

Adding GPS or GSM components is likely to involve the same amount of effort by Nokia. Just my 2p.

[whatever7]

Sure, they have different hardware, but the basis is the same (screen, wifi, processor, bluetooth). So what I meant was that if there were to be cell functionality integrated into the tablets one day, then it would probably be in all tablets, because it would most likely be a feature that is embedded in the basis. To manufacture ITs with different basic components would probably be too expensive.

A Sprint WiMax version of n810 is coming very soon.

However I don't understand the rational of putting a cell radio in the tablet. I can turn on the eithering to my EVDO phone in 5-10 seconds. It takes longer to bootup the tablet then its to connect to your cellphone's internet.

[Milhouse]

There are two factors that count against using a NIT as a cellphone - size and battery consumption.

Sure, you could use a Bluetooth headset to connect to the NIT so that you don't have to hold such a large device to the side of your head to make or take a call, but then that's another device (headset) you have to carry with you when you may as well carry a small phone.

The current battery will most likely crap out much sooner if you added a phone, or it will have to be made even larger to accomodate the new cellular functionality, making the device even more unwieldy as a phone. And shrinking the device to a phone form factor will mean it is no longer a NIT (ie. reduced screen size and/or resolution etc.).

In short, adding phone functionality may appear useful to some people but it will necessitate all sorts of other complications and compromises that I personally don't think are worthwhile.

My 2p. :)

[convulted]

Hmm, just in case I may have come across wrongly: I would _hate_ it if Nokia introduced a GSM component in the tablets. Sure, I would not use it, but it would involve some wrangling with carriers and such... that would increase the price. Plus, I'd rather go to town with my stone age Nokia on a Saturday night than with the N800.

[mieses]

the tablet wants to be a phone.

nokia won't let the tablet be a phone.

why? to preserve existing revenue streams (nokia sells phones) and to play nice with the FCC which is manipulated by mobile carrier monopolies - both are reasonable business motives. In this respect, Nokia is not fully committed to the tablet which will continue to be irrelevant against blackberries, iphones, and treos. (until wimax, maybe)

Why would i want to carry a phone and a tablet and a laptop? it's ridiculous.

I'm holding out on buying any tablets until Wimax or a working USB/bluetooth EV-DO data modem (not phone pairing) is a reality. Unfortunately Nokia's choice of un-powered OTG conveniently prevents the usage of USB EV-DO modems.

If Google becomes a player in the 700mhz spectrum, consumers may get a little more freedom. It would be nice to carry fewer gadgets and subscribe to fewer service plans.

[GeneralAntilles]

<snip />


You wanting the tablet to be a phone is not the same thing as the tablet wanting to be a phone. If Nokia puts a cellular radio in a tablet, the expense will shoot up and battery life will shoot down. Neither of which are good things. I, personally, do not want to take my tablet everywhere. There are a lot of situations in which I'd much rather take my $50 phone with me than my $400 tablet, for convenience and safety (say, a party where the likelyhood of ending up in the pool is high, or a morning run where you'd rather not be carrying around dead weight).

I'm not a fan of holding giant bricks up to my face. I want a phone that does voice calling well and I want a tablet that does micro-laptop functions well. I don't want a phone/tablet that does neither well.

[benny1967]

Why would i want to carry a phone and a tablet and a laptop? it's ridiculous.

so you'd carry a tablet instead of a phone that would be only a third in size, has much longer battery lifetime and is better suited for - well, making phone calls?

come on ...

[mieses]

You wanting the tablet to be a phone is not the same thing as the tablet wanting to be a phone..

n810 looks a lot like an iphone. it's pretending to be an iphone. it absolutely wants to be a phone. but the design(ers) are limited by business policy.

your arguments are stretched thin. It already has a powered wifi antenna. you're saying that adding a cell antenna is different? if so, then why is adding a wimax antenna ok?

do you also carry a $20 pager for those situations where a $50 phone is inappropriate?

so you'd carry a tablet instead of a phone that would be only a third in size, has much longer battery lifetime and is better suited for - well, making phone calls?

yes. and so would 2 million iphone owners, apparently.

[benny1967]

the iPh0ne is still smaller than Nokias smallest IT; and its still much bigger than what I'd consider acceptable for a mobile (!) phone.

Knowing that a built-in phone would make a tablet even larger, I simply dont see how it could be useful.

[GeneralAntilles]

It already has a powered wifi antenna. you're saying that adding a cell antenna is different? if so, then why is adding a wimax antenna ok?


It's not. I don't want Wimax either.

[mieses]

the iPh0ne is still smaller than Nokias smallest IT; and its still much bigger than what I'd consider acceptable for a mobile (!) phone

not by much. Many of the early N810 photos placed it next to or on top of an iphone, as if to say "look how similar they are". They are very similar in looks and in size.


Knowing that a built-in phone would make a tablet even larger, I simply dont see how it could be useful.

come on. phones are tiny and 90% of the hardware is already there.

although it would help improve sales of the tablet, i personally don't care about cell phone functionality. i'd like to see working EV-DO or Wimax. I don't want a cell phone. I just want data and to make my calls over EV-DO or Wimax. I would not hold up the brick to my head. I'd use a bluetooth headset (quick! we must stop users from attaching bluetooth headsets! they might use the tablet as a phone!). I want to cancel my cell phone plan, toss my cell phone, and just subscribe to an unlimited data plan (like Sprint's). I'm a cheap bastard. Nokia and the providers anticipate consumer frugality and stunt this obvious and inevitable use case.

[mieses]

It's not. I don't want Wimax either.

ok, this is one of those bill gates 10k memory should be enough for everyone quotes. i'll remember this one. amazing.

[GeneralAntilles]

ok, this is one of those bill gates 10k memory should be enough for everyone quotes. i'll remember this one. amazing.

I already have a 3g bluetooth phone. I don't want to spend money on another service plan. VOIP over Wimax doesn't suit my needs, and a GSM modem in the ITs will just nuke battery life and drive up the costs (not to mention make it a lot harder to get to market and tie it to carrier contracts).

[mieses]

I already have a 3g bluetooth phone. I don't want to spend money on another service plan. VOIP over Wimax doesn't suit my needs, and a GSM modem in the ITs will just nuke battery life and drive up the costs (not to mention make it a lot harder to get to market and tie it to carrier contracts).

I don't want another anything either. i'd like to replace and simplify.

Right now the htc mogul with an unlimited sprint ev-do data plan, a working SIP client, and no voice plan is looking really good. But i HATE the idea of using Windows Mobile.

voip over 3g/wifi would work for me:
- sip > wifi > asterisk at home and office
- sip > 3g > asterisk elsewhere.

the tablet would eliminate my home sip phone and my cell phone.

[whatever7]

I already have a 3g bluetooth phone. I don't want to spend money on another service plan. VOIP over Wimax doesn't suit my needs, and a GSM modem in the ITs will just nuke battery life and drive up the costs (not to mention make it a lot harder to get to market and tie it to carrier contracts).

Nokia is making a WiMax tablet becuase Sprint wants one and will sell it themselves, not because Nokia believe in the internet-equiped tablet future, mainly because nokia is a very Euro-centric company.

Plus, Sprint is going to push WiMax as an alternative to Cable (TWC, ComCast) or DSL (Verizon) boardband, not an alternative to EVDO or HSDAP mobile data. If I can share a single WiMax account on my 3 computers, I really don't mind replacing my cable modem with it.

[iball]

What do you expect from someone who can't even doublecheck their spelling before submitting their "blog" post?
M810? Never heard of it. Heard of the N810 though.
This is just some uninformed jackass basing everything off a full FIVE MINUTES of playing around with the N810 and then goes and posts a link to the "m810".
The phuctard was probably just filling space because it was on deadline.
Espcially when this phuctard complains that to use thedevice you HAVE to be connected over wi-fi or bluetooth.
Wrong.
Normal consumers don't read InformationWeak anyway, it's mostly for business folks and investors which definitely are NOT the target demographics Nokia is aiming for with their line of Internet Tablets.
They certainly don't need them anyway.
American press is always going to be biased towards "homegrown" consumer electronics which is why the Apple iPhone is getting such great reviews despite being truly crippled in regards to real functionality.
Remember when the Motorola RAZR first came out? Same thing. Nice looking phone but lacking in real features.
But because both devices were "Made in the USA" (as far as design and the company goes, not where it was manufactured) the American press lauded them both as "revolutionary when they really weren't, feature-wise.
The iPhone just introduced a new UI and the Motorola RAZR just proved that - as always - "thin is in".
COmpare both those phones to a large variety of Nokia products and you'll find them lacking.
But Nokia isn't a US company now, is it? Of course not. And since it doesn't have a REAL market presence here in the US then the mainstream media will ignore it or flame it.
But we all know that the people out there who "get" the internet tablet won't be swayed against buying one by some fat, balding, middle-aged hippie who doesn't know the difference between his *** and a hole in the ground.

And sometimes even the press folks who just months ago lauded the Apple iPhone (Walt Mossberg) turn against it's "feature" of being locked in to only one carrier - AT&T (again, Walt Mossberg).
The mainstream press may act like complete douchebags now but once the product they're bashing catches on they'll be backpedaling and flip-flopping worse than any politician (see John C. Dvorak).
I don't even bother reading reviews from the likes of CNet or Information Week (what do you expect from a "tech magazine" that gives away subscriptions?!?!? I call that one big printed infomercial) since they're usually biased.
I prefer to read reviews from folks who actually "get" and understand technology and what the device is intended to do and then some.
Only true geeks can write unbiased reviews when it comes to modern information technology.
I detest Microsoft Vista, XP is OK for my work as a network engineer, but Mac OS X is what I use at home.
I wouldn't wish IIS 6.0 on anyone for a public website, but IIS 6.0 + Sharepoint Services is perfect for a private in-house replacement for a file server in a MIcrosoft-based shop. Hate Cisco for anything but routers, love Foundry for everything but routers (OSPF in da house).
Best tool for the job and all.
I don't expect folks who went to college to get a journalism degree to write good reviews on information technology so when they are true to form and write a half-assed reviews like those.
And no one else in here should be angry about that. It's the nature of the beast.

[nef919]

Personally I just ignored his review. First thing that struck me was the fact that he used it for 5 min. (played with it seems more accurate). That aside he totally lost me when he described his iphone plan. 5000 sms and 200 visual vm? Really? Brainchild, its 200sms and unlimited vvm. If you don't overstand what you have, how can you grok something else. Proves to me that this is a person that just has no clue.
btw I am no nokia h8ter or apple fanboy. I carry both the iphone and a n800. Will likely buy the 810 for the gps. Hard to use the iphone on my ninja(touchscreen no work with leather gloves. neither have a gps...

[Fadsjeik]

What do you expect from someone who can't even doublecheck their spelling before submitting their "blog" post?
M810? Never heard of it. Heard of the N810 though.

:D:D:D

Of course, the people who are well informed will disregard this article altogether. However 99% of the people are pretty shallow when it comes interest in technology. Articles like this shouldn't offend anyone here, rather it should wake up everybody in Nokia's marketing dep. If I were the head of marketing the N810, I wouldn't have let people like Mitch walk away uninformed and unimpressed. Okay the N810 may be hard to grasp at first, but that means you have someone present at the display devices all the time to highlight all the great features. He didn't get his opinion at a random store, no it was at a nokia marketing event! That to me is just unbelievable.

[Fadsjeik]

So just as a question what is the power consumption of a cell chip? I can't imagine it really affecting the performance of the IT (especially not if you could disable it), because it would probably be dwarfed by the power consumption of the screen and the wifi. In fact I guess that the bluetooth pairing with a phone would consume more power.

I would also guess that the cost of a cell chip is very very low. I'm no expert at this, but I do not think the cost and battery argument are really valid.

So a cell chip shouldn't bother anyone who isn't going to use it, but it will make a whole bunch of us very happy (and boost sales in the process). The only compelling reason I can see not to include a cell chip is that it doesn't fit in nokia's current strategy (either because of potential conflict with carriers, or because they see separate revenue streams).

[whatever7]

IMO Nokia doesn't want to put a cellphone inside the tablet not because it was too expensive, but because they don't want these kind of (hilarious) websites (http://www.sidetalkin.com/page-1.html) to ever again.

[GeneralAntilles]

So a cell chip shouldn't bother anyone who isn't going to use it, but it will make a whole bunch of us very happy (and boost sales in the process). The only compelling reason I can see not to include a cell chip is that it doesn't fit in nokia's current strategy (either because of potential conflict with carriers, or because they see separate revenue streams).

Yes, it will bother those that don't use it. A. It costs money to put it in there, not only due to material and manufacturing costs, but also due to certification and testing costs (which are a whole lot more complicated than Wifi/Bluetooth) and B. In the US, if it has a cellular radio, you can pretty much guarantee that you'll have to go through a carrier to get it—carriers mean contracts, contracts mean more costs.

No thanks.

[Fadsjeik]

In the US, if it has a cellular radio, you can pretty much guarantee that you'll have to go through a carrier to get it—carriers mean contracts, contracts mean more costs.


Surely, even in the US it is possible to buy a prepaid sim card? You could buy your IT just as you bought it now, same price, no sim. Get yourself a sim card if you like, or not if you don't.

I'd even welcome an IT with a contract, because here in Europe it means a much much cheaper IT (read: free :D:D). People here in the forum always tend to include the costs of the contract with the price of the device, i.e. the iphone costs more than 2000 dollar. However they tend to forget that you do get unlimited data and a whole lot of calling minutes for that price as well.

[fpp]

So just as a question what is the power consumption of a cell chip? I can't imagine it really affecting the performance of the IT (especially not if you could disable it), because it would probably be dwarfed by the power consumption of the screen and the wifi. In fact I guess that the bluetooth pairing with a phone would consume more power.
I would also guess that the cost of a cell chip is very very low. I'm no expert at this, but I do not think the cost and battery argument are really valid.

I believe you are very wrong on both counts.

Cellular data links are *very* power-hungry, especially 3G/3G+. My (Nokia) 3G phone chews down its battery more than twice as fast when connected to the Internet than the 770 tethered to it through BT ; I'd say it consumes at least as much as Wifi, if not more, and certainly much more than BT. If it were all done on the tablet it would kill the single battery's life.

Also the cost would go up way more than you think - and it's not only because of the hardware cost of the electronics plus margin. There is a huge overhead involved in going through the regulatory bodies (like the FCC) which have different rules and costs in each and every country. Not to mention that Nokia would have to make different models for different parts of the world, carrier networks being somewhat incompatible across continents.

Another thing is that cell data technology moves fast, and you would be stuck with what's built-in : when I first got my 770 I had an edge phone ; now I have moved on to a 3G-capable one. Later if I can find a cheap second-hand 3G+ phone I can upgrade again (but if I want BT 2.0 I must upgrade the tablet itself to N8x0).

I for one am perfectly happy with Nokia's policy in this matter : if I don't use cellular data to get online with it, I don't have to pay for components I don't need ; and if I do, I can choose exactly how I'll do it.

[Capt'n Corrupt]

Perhaps Nokia can offer a dumb-GSM: a low cost GSM-box that connects via bluetooth *or* microUSB with a very high capacity battery (similar to external GPS units). The GSM-box would have no interface (other than a power switch and perhaps an LED) and would be designed to be used in conjunction with an Internet Tablet, PC, Laptop, or other USB-OTG technology with the correct software. This idea would provide cellular capability and could work equally well with WiMAX or EV-DO (shudder) as separate boxes. Best of all, it wouldn't be tethered to the Internet Tablet, but could be used to provide WAN support for the computer, laptop, or other devices (camera, car, printer, etc).

I would actually prefer AA batteries in such a device. It would lower the price considerably, and there are some rechargeable AA's with tremendous life (http://www.imaging-resource.com/ACCS/BATTS/BATTS.HTM). Additionally, it would provide a simple way of changing the batteries (or carrying spares) if the device runs out of power. Win-win, as far as I can tell.

If Nokia doesn't do it, I hope another company reads this forum and takes this idea!!!! I can't see such a box costing more than $50, but filling a great need in the market.

The key is that it provides *options*.


}:^)~
YARR!!

The Notorious C.C.

[tso]

i think his comment about "another smartphone" was the point where i dismissed the whole tirade.

still, i guess thats the divorce between the european market (nokia's home turf) and the american. in the former, if you have a phone that can do bluetooth, it can act as a bluetooth modem. in the latter, it seems that anything below a smartphone is so locked down you may be lucky if you get AD2P support, or even bluetooth handsfree at times by the sound of it.

thats why they praise the iphone so much, to them its the smartphone for the common man. to any european, its a glossy feature phone. and one thats at the lower end of the feature list even. sure it got music player and wifi. but where is the java, or any kind of app install support for that matter?

sure, there is now announced a SDK. but i wonder what kind of draconian things apple will require around it.

imo, i can do close to everything the iphone can do on my SE. and its not even running symbian or similar smartphone os.

i say, ignore any article coming out of usa about wireless tech. its so far out of the loop its insane...

[Capt'n Corrupt]

I guess it already exists!

Here's an external USB GSM modem good for voice/sms/data.
http://www.alphamicro.net/components/product~line~49~id~509.asp

Now if someone can find a USB OTG *or* [better yet] a bluetooth version, then tablet owners can make/receive cellular calls, with the correct software, from their tablets.

I think an external GSM 'modem' is the best way to go for the IT series, simply because WiMAX's reach and comprehensive VoIP will eliminate the *need* for cellular and largely obsolete it. However, it provides the option to those that want the functionality with their devices. Win-win.


}:^)~
YARR!!

A load of Crapt'n

[Milhouse]

I'm intrigued by the BT SAP (SIM Access Profile) support present (http://europe.nokia.com/A4568593) in N810/OS 2008 - from the Bluetooth Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluetooth_profile#SIM_Access_Profile_.28SAP.2C_SIM .29):


This allows devices such as car phones with built in GSM transceivers to connect to a SIM card in a phone with Bluetooth, so the car phone itself doesn't require a separate SIM card.

Anyone got any idea how this profile is going to be used with the N810 (possibly N800), as to my knowledge the N810 (and certainly the N800) doesn't have a GSM transceiver.

As for the perfect Bluetooth GSM/3G "phone" to partner the NITs, I guess one about the size of the LD-4W GPS module would do the trick (it can fit on a keyring), with a small OLED display and about four buttons (on/off, up, down and select). What more would you need?! :)

[Capt'n Corrupt]

As for the perfect Bluetooth GSM/3G "phone" to partner the NITs, I guess one about the size of the LD-4W GPS module would do the trick (it can fit on a keyring), with a small OLED display and about four buttons (on/off, up, down and select). What more would you need?! :)

Wow! A device like that would be PERFECT. On a key ring, or clipped to the inside of a jacket/pocket/bag/belt/etc, you'd have GSM access without needing to worry about carrying the additional device. Handy and elegant.

I wonder how long the batteries would last?


}:^)~
YARR!!

Chief Corrupt

[Milhouse]

I wonder how long the batteries would last?


Thinking about it, possibly not long enough - particularly if 3G is involved!

The LD-4W is good for up to 11 hours operating time and 4 days standby as a GPS unit, but I suspect the battery would have to be enlarged in order to provide between one and two days GSM/3G standby usage and 4-5 hours call time. While this might make the device too large for a keyring it would still be plenty small enough to slip into a pocket where you can forget about it.

By the way, the dimensions of the LD-4W (http://europe.nokia.com/A4491320) are 82.9 X 37 X 7.8 mm and it weighs 31g - an extra 20-30grams and a few more mm's of depth would still ensure it's a pretty diminutive device! By comparison my current phone - SE W950i (http://www.sonyericsson.com/spg.jsp?cc=global&lc=en&ver=4001&template=pp1_1_1&zone=pp&lm=pp1&pid=10391) - weighs in at 112g and 106 x 54 x 15 mm, and I certainly know when I'm carrying it (I'm lucky to get a full days use from it too on 3G!) :)

[Capt'n Corrupt]

By the way, the dimensions of the LD-4W (http://europe.nokia.com/A4491320) are 82.9 X 37 X 7.8 mm and it weighs 31g - an extra 20-30grams and a few more mm's of depth would still ensure it's a pretty diminutive device! By comparison my current phone - SE W950i (http://www.sonyericsson.com/spg.jsp?cc=global&lc=en&ver=4001&template=pp1_1_1&zone=pp&lm=pp1&pid=10391) - weighs in at 112g and 106 x 54 x 15 mm, and I certainly know when I'm carrying it (I'm lucky to get a full days use from it too on 3G!) :)

Certainly. The lower half of my old LG6070(flip phone) is a similar dimension as the LD-4W, though slightly wider (0.5cm) and twice as thick. My cell also has to house a a keypad, backlight, mic, headphone jack, etc so I wouldn't be surprised if a interface-less GSM could could fit the LD-4W proportions, considering todays technology.

What a terrific alternative to dedicated GSM!


}:^)~
YARR!!

Wanted: Capt'n Corrupt

[Capt'n Corrupt]

Check out the size of the SAMBA 75 - Integrated Quad Band GSM/GPRS/EDGE Engine (http://87.230.100.53/index.php?id=55). The dimensions are: 88.7 x 37.6 x 12.6 mm

Additionally, here's a Motorola chipset: G24 GSM (http://avnet.co.za/New_Products/Motorola/GSM/g24/g24_Module.htm). The dimensions are: 24.4 x 45.2 x 6.0 mm. Not too shabby!


}:^)~
YARR!!

The Gracious Capt'n

[fpp]

Nice, but where's the 3G(+) model ? :-)
(and the BT variant, of course, for the tablets...)
(which would then need a *battery*... duh :-)

[Capt'n Corrupt]

Nice, but where's the 3G(+) model ? :-)
(and the BT variant, of course, for the tablets...)
(which would then need a *battery*... duh :-)

... and the version that opens my mail, and ensure's my bacon's crispy (but not burnt), and occupies my girlfriend between the moments that I pleasure her? :D


}:^)~
YARR!!

Capt'n Corrupt III: the revenge

[iball]

I just wish there was a Slingplayer app for my N800.
It works great on my N95 but I'd like to have the bigger screen of the N800.

[Sadavyk]

I just wish there was a Slingplayer app for my N800.
It works great on my N95 but I'd like to have the bigger screen of the N800.

which n95 do you have? I was just look at the 8gig but i think the n810 comes out at the same time i can only buy one ;( i wish i had money like bill gates.

[iball]

I have one of the launch non-US N95s.
Before that it was an N80 Phoenix-flashed to N80ie firmware to get VoIP.

[Sadavyk]

I have one of the launch non-US N95s.
Before that it was an N80 Phoenix-flashed to N80ie firmware to get VoIP.

wow! talking about VoIP what do you think about this
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/10/29/skype_3_analysis/

[ArnimS]

If NITs are to go mainstream there has to be more obvious consumer appeal - having hidden depths of ability is lost on 5-minute reviewers and the general public alike.

The ITOS/maemo UI looks fine to many of us. I think, though, that there is a consensus that design-wise apple is shifting consumer expectations.

One of those expectations is smooth animations and transitions. Static icons and dialogues popping-up and disappearing looks old school, slidey zoomyness looks new.

OpenGL can be an enabler for this (though not strictly necessary), but i don't know of an open-source GUI framework that uses it. Is there something like this? A beryl type windowmanager isn't what i'm thinking of.

I think Apple can do this eye-candy easily because their userspace apps aren't tied to an existing UI framework like gtk. Is that right? They just make it up as they go along?

[benny1967]

If NITs are to go mainstream there has to be more obvious consumer appeal - having hidden depths of ability is lost on 5-minute reviewers and the general public alike.

I'm not sure about this.

First, I don't believe in NITs in a mainstream product such as cell phones or media players. I firmly believe they will become more popular in the future, but I don't see the "mass market" for a long time to come. (Which is fine and in no way negative.)

OTOH, whats the "obvious consumer appeal" of a desktop PC? What does a 5-minute-reviewer get out of a freshly installed Windows Vista box, given he'd never seen a Windows PC before? Not much, does he? - Ah, this example sounds wrong somehow... why? Because there's no reviewer who doesnt know what a PC is, what people use it for, what expectations are and what to write about in the review. (This wasnt always so.)

My guess is that at some point in the future, reviewers will learn what a tablet is the same way they learned what a PC is. They'll not try to understand what the device is for, instead they'll point out how Intels new tablet is different from Nokias, talk about the quality of the display, amount of RAM or storage.
Nokias current models might be to tablets what Atari 800s and Commodore 64s were to home computers.

[pixelseventy2]

wow! talking about VoIP what do you think about this
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/10/29/skype_3_analysis/

I saw that. And newsnight or something on TV last night were going on about the "technological revolution" and how you can make FREE calls. They're not free, you're just paying differently. And they're skype-to-skype only. And it's not a technological revolution, it's a business model evolution. Muppets. For some reason the whole story annoyed me :( It took them 10 minutes to basically say that in the near future we will be paying for a mobile data plan (e.g. unlimited data for £x) instead of paying for calls.

</rant>

It's good that three are pushing this tech, but I wish that the reporters were competent. I'm waiting for three to release their "mobile broadband" services on pre-pay.

[Sadavyk]

For some reason the whole story annoyed me :( It took them 10 minutes to basically say that in the near future we will be paying for a mobile data plan (e.g. unlimited data for £x) instead of paying for calls.

I felt the same way!
I hate these A-holes reporters if you don't use a device how can you write on it. Andrew Orlowski must own stock in cell phone companies how can you call skype users cheapskates? Makes me wonder what will their say when the wimax version tablet is out users are in public on skype?

[maxilogan]

Well he went to a event and played with it for five minutes. One might argue he wasn't paying attention

I may agree with this but then I wonder why he was writing such a limited article instead of playing with the device some more (if he really wanted to write something about it) or just shut up (if he did not want to go deeper with the device possibilities)

[maxilogan]

I totally agree nokia sucks at advertising products...

Well, I found the advertising clip originally shipped with the N800 t be very well done. But I also think that not much people (apart from our N800 owners) did see that clip :rolleyes:

[Texrat]

Actually, we do support GSM here and AT&T wireless coverage has been, for me anyway, phenomenal. I drove from Texas to California and only once very briefly suffered total loss (Texas mountains) and only once had intermittant trouble (San Diego hills).

Your other points are well-taken... although Nokia plans to storm the US (again) with a vengeance next year...

[benny1967]

I love the historic sites !

They have history over there?


:p

[benny1967]

BTW, regarding the topic of this thread:

http://i.cmpnet.com/infoweek/authors/blog/1053.jpg
No. No way.

[pixelseventy2]

They have history over there?
:p

I think they bought it off ebay :)

[Texrat]

Oooo you guys!

*

I have no comeback.

[richie]

I'd even welcome an IT with a contract, because here in Europe it means a much much cheaper IT (read: free :D:D). People here in the forum always tend to include the costs of the contract with the price of the device, i.e. the iphone costs more than 2000 dollar. However they tend to forget that you do get unlimited data and a whole lot of calling minutes for that price as well.

Nothing is for free. You will probably find if purchased on a contract that the device will be restricted to preserve revenue for the network carrier, for example walled garden web access, restricted use of VoIP. I'd think if purchased thro' a mobile network, the internet tablet as we know wouldn't be the same, you'd gain a phone, but lose choice.

[thoughtfix]

Did you catch the dig I sent his way in the podcast? ;)

[benny1967]

I'd even welcome an IT with a contract, because here in Europe it means a much much cheaper IT (read: free :D:D). People here in the forum always tend to include the costs of the contract with the price of the device, i.e. the iphone costs more than 2000 dollar. However they tend to forget that you do get unlimited data and a whole lot of calling minutes for that price as well.

Its not about cost. Its about choice. At least for me - I'm not the type of person who sell their dignity for money.

[Karel Jansens]

Its not about cost. Its about choice. At least for me - I'm not the type of person who sell their dignity for money.

Mmmh... How much money exactly are we talking about here?

[benny1967]

Mmmh... How much money exactly are we talking about here?

Less then €50,-.

If you offer more, we can talk.

[convulted]

I don't think many mobile phone operators would give out contracts with unlimited data and use of VoIP... at least not at a reasonable price. Which would render the tablet pretty useless IMHO.

[Capt'n Corrupt]

Which would render the tablet pretty useless IMHO.

.... but you could still surf the net on the tablet (and VoIP, and email, and read e-books, etc), so it's not exactly 'useless' is it?


}:^)~
YARR!!

[Fadsjeik]

Its not about cost. Its about choice. At least for me - I'm not the type of person who sell their dignity for money.

Sure I totally hate how the iphone would be locked to one carrier. I am all pro openness and all, that doesn't however mean that I cannot be rewarded for signing a contract with a phone company. If there happens to be a phone company out there who will sponsor me with an N900 or whatever if I sign a contract and I believe it to be a sweet deal, then there is no shame in signing that contract, is there? Of course I wouldn't want this to happen, if it means that you cannot buy your IT without any other obligations, but I guess both models can co-exist.