Asus Eee review written specially for the ITT forum :)

[rs-px]

My Asus Eee arrived on Friday, and as promised, here's my review. It's bit long :) My Eee is the 4GB 512MB model.


When I first got my Nokia 770, I was completely smitten. I wanted to track down the designers and give them a big kiss. Here was a device that offered the desktop Internet experience on something that slips into the pocket of a pair of 501s.

Nokia had created an entirely new type of computer form factor. And that doesn't happen every day. They should have been given the Nobel prize or something. But from that day until this, I've believed that pocketable Internet computers will one-day be as ubiquitous as mobile phones are now.

I would like to say that the Asus Eee furthers the revolution. But I can't. The Eee is an achievement, of sorts, but it's not in the same league as the Nokia Internet tablets when it comes to innovation.

While the Nokia tablets are a completely new paradigm, the Eee is little more than a miniature laptop. Note that it's not a small laptop. It's a miniature laptop. Everything is reduced in size by around two thirds, including the keyboard, screen, technical specification when compared to a standard modern laptop, and even the price. No matter how you look at it, Asus deserves a pat on the back for this.

The problem is that a miniature laptop isn't much fun to use. It's exactly as you might imagine. The keyboard is small and, although you can get used to it, your fingers start to ache after more than a few paragraphs. I typed this review on the Eee and my left hand is hurting. Going back to a full-sized keyboard after using the Eee is pure luxury.

The screen is just about practicable but bear in mind two things here. Firstly, the beauty of the Nokia tablet is that you can simply hold it closer to your eyes to read the small but high-resolution screen. The Eee has the same 800x480 resolution as the Nokia tablets, across a slightly larger screen size, but will mostly likely be sitting on your desk or knees, just like any other laptop. Therefore it's much further away from your eyes, unless you hunch over it. Eye strain or back ache – it's your choice!

Secondly, it's only when using the Eee that you realize what an achievement Nokia's Hildon GUI is. It allows applications to not just fit on the tablet screen, but to fit comfortably. By way of contrast, the Eee utilises standard desktop apps. And things get cramped pretty damn quick. Switch on tabbed browsing in Firefox, for example, and you'll lose a significant chunk of desktop real estate. OpenOffice.org fits OK but you won't be using a lot of toolbars, or large font sizes.

The software is rough around the edges in many ways, some critical, partly because desktop Linux tends to be like that anyway, but mostly because this is the first iteration of the Eee OS. It will almost certainly be improved as time goes on (a software update feature is included). Then again, you can install XP on the Eee although you'll need an external USB DVD-ROM drive to get the drivers off the supplied disc. You'll also need one of the WinXP install discs that includes SP2 -- older WinXP install discs won't work.

Ubuntu installs fine but you'll need to use ndiswrapper and the Windows wifi drivers.

And that's the end of my complaints about the Eee. Everything else, including build quality, is pretty good. I don't like white laptops but the Eee is more pearl/cream than white. The speakers are pretty loud, the screen reasonably bright, and the CPU fast enough for practically everything you'd want to do on a computer this small. Programs start about as fast as a standard computer. Flash games work OK.

My complaints about the Eee are more philosophical. In short, I think it's going to damage the Internet tablet marketplace. To work out why, you have to ask yourself who's actually going to use it.

Children under the age of 12 will love it. It's like Asus has taken a standard laptop and scaled it down to their size. Children over the age of 12 might be more demanding -- the inability to play DVD movies might get on their nerves, for example.

Business workers? They've been able to choose Toshiba Librettos for some time. There's some PIM software included (Kontact (http://kontact.kde.org/)) but, with its games and education software, the Eee is clearly more of a home user tool.

The nasty truth is that the ordinary people will buy the Eee because they think they're getting a cheap laptop. And the Eee isn't a very good laptop. In fact, it's a crap laptop, when compared to any other laptop out there. However, it's an excellent portable Internet device. It's ideal to have around the house for occasional browsing, watching movies or listening to Internet radio. Just like the N800, it's great to take with you to the coffee shop to check your email.

But as a main computer, in lieu of something else, it's just the wrong choice. Its size means it's annoying to use for more than a few hours. Websites don't fit onto its screen and you have to click and drag the scrollbars to see all of it (there's no click-and-drag here, as with the Internet tablets, and you can't zoom out!).

So people will buy the Eee and come to hate it, because it's only just capable of doing what they want* and can sometimes be very irritating to use. Yet it's unfair to blame the Eee for this.

And while this is happening, the image and reputation of personal and portable internet devices will become more and more tarnished. People will start to see the idea of small Internet devices as a failure when, in fact, it was one particular implementation that caused a misunderstanding.

Will the Eee be a success? I'm not as sure as I was. It's cheap and cheerful, and people are almost bound to flock to it for that reason. But it really should come with a label on the box that says, “WARNING: This is NOT a laptop. Do NOT buy if you require the functionality of a laptop.” Whilst ordering my Eee, I was seriously considering selling my MacBook and using the Eee as my main work computer. Now I can see how naïve I was. I suspect quite a few people will buy an Eee and then sell it on eBay when they realize it just isn't for them.

If you're able to accept the Eee on its own terms, then you'll love it. You might want to wait a few months until the software bugs have been worked out, however. The bug with the constantly spinning fan is particularly annoying.


* If you can get hold of an external monitor, keyboard and mouse, then the Eee could feasibly replace a desktop PC if your computing demands are modest. The Eee includes a VGA out (not a D-SUB digital connection!), as well as three USB ports. Using the Eee in this way makes particular sense for people like students, who could take the Eee to college with them, and turn it into a 'proper' computer when they get home. A word of warning, however. The Eee couldn't run my 1280x1024 LCD monitor at native resolution because it set too high a refresh rate. This might be one more of the bugs that will get fixed over time.

[belder]

Nicely done! Thanks for sharing this.

[GeneralAntilles]

Yes, quite an interesting review. I had been thinking along much the same lines regarding the laptop replacement (Not that I have a laptop now, or would ever buy one. My NITs and my G5 suite me just fine. ;)), and kinda guessed that it wouldn't quite be up to snuff. While a very interesting concept, I just don't think it has quite as much of a niche as the NITs, there just isn't enough justification for another device below a laptop (although it might be interesting as a children's laptop).

I'd like to see better usage of the available space to include a larger LCD running at least 1024-pixels wide or better. Perhaps even more than that if they could stick resolution-independent UI on there.

For me, the deciding factor for any device in the "walk-around web" category is size—can it fit comfortably in my pocket and still be useful? The Eee fails size, all UMPCs fail size, and cellphones and PDA devices fail "useful". Nokia really managed to find a perfect new device category, let's just hope they stay competitive.

[yabbas]

Very interesting review, thanks :)

My plan was to buy 2 EEs for my younger sisters and replace their desktop PC. Now I've got second thoughts.


I'd be interested in your experiences of XP on the EE, both on the internal screen and say an external screen.

[earl00]

goto eeeuser.com. XP FL runs smooth on it. And the wifi drivers are available for Ubuntu. The 770 or n800 doesn't fit in your pants pocket(front or back, unless your'e fat), and you can't sit down with the tablets in your pocket like a cellphone. Maybe if you wear a jacket a lot you can fit it there but there is no way comfortable or safe for the 770 or n800 to fit nicely in your pants pocket. Maybe the n810 will.

[I]While the Nokia tablets are a completely new paradigm, the Eee is little more than a miniature laptop

Ummm... the nokia IT's are just like a pda which have exisited since 1992, main difference is that it has a linux backbone. nothing special.


Nokia had created an entirely new type of computer form factor. And that doesn't happen every day. They should have been given the Nobel prize or something.

Its been happening. There is nothing awfully special about these so called "IT"'s. I guess thats why everyone's rushing out to get them. right? Its another pda with a worthless linux os, great, it has a bigger screen for good res internet browsing and open source if you know how to port apps. You can rave about it as long as you want but I still see no port of openooffice and I happen to see someone say that its so easy to port things over.. i guess not that easy. But surely older pda's have an office app on it, actually my 4 year old tiny cell phone has it. :)

[Toontje]

Its another pda with a worthless linux os

I think you are wrong there. IF the IT's had not only Linux but more of a useful user interface, they would actually be useful and fun to use.
Yesterday i installed Penguinbaits KDE and it transformed my otherwise taskless IT into a almost full fledged Linux PC. With the possibility to run PIMs.
Nokia made the mistake here. I hope they will correct it in the future.

Ton.

[rs-px]

The 770 or n800 doesn't fit in your pants pocket(front or back, unless your'e fat), and you can't sit down with the tablets in your pocket like a cellphone. Maybe if you wear a jacket a lot you can fit it there but there is no way comfortable or safe for the 770 or n800 to fit nicely in your pants pocket. Maybe the n810 will.

I'm sorry but you're just wrong. I just spent a weekend away from home with the 770 in my jeans pocket the whole time. Other times I've had the 770 in one pocket and my folding BT keyboard in the other. This wasn't uncomfortable and I could sit down fine. For the record I'm average height and build.

Ummm... the nokia IT's are just like a pda which have exisited since 1992, main difference is that it has a linux backbone. nothing special.

This is like saying that modern PCs have existed since the late 70s, starting with the Apple I. This is faintly true but computers have evolved significantly. Well, the Nokia tablets have evolved both form and function into something new and exciting. If you can't see this then I feel sorry for you.

Its been happening. There is nothing awfully special about these so called "IT"'s. I guess thats why everyone's rushing out to get them. right? Its another pda with a worthless linux os, great, it has a bigger screen for good res internet browsing and open source if you know how to port apps. You can rave about it as long as you want but I still see no port of openooffice and I happen to see someone say that its so easy to port things over.. i guess not that easy. But surely older pda's have an office app on it, actually my 4 year old tiny cell phone has it. :)

This is the point at which I started to think you were a troll. Why on earth do you frequent this forum if you hold this view?

Nearly everybody who owns a Nokia tablet has completely the opposite view to you. There is something special about Nokia tablets, but Nokia has so far marketed them at the geeksphere (just like PCs were first bought by geeks until the ordinary people moved in). The N810 is an attempt to break out from the geeksphere, but it will be followed by two more devices that take the Nokia tablets even more mainstream. All this info has been released via interviews with high-up Nokia people. And as for your last point, well, the Nokia tablets aren't PDAs. If you want a PDA then why don't you buy a PDA?

[earl00]

stop making this look special by giving it another name..."IT", its a PDA. lets call the iphone something other than a smartphone because it has a different os... no its just a smartphone still. Nokia marketing..."Let's just call it something new". its a pda with a sh*tty linux os thats all.

[earl00]

I think you are wrong there. IF the IT's had not only Linux but more of a useful user interface, they would actually be useful and fun to use.
Yesterday i installed Penguinbaits KDE and it transformed my otherwise taskless IT into a almost full fledged Linux PC. With the possibility to run PIMs.
Nokia made the mistake here. I hope they will correct it in the future.

Ton.

and well said.

[earl00]

I'm sorry but you're just wrong. I just spent a weekend away from home with the 770 in my jeans pocket the whole time. Other times I've had the 770 in one pocket and my folding BT keyboard in the other. This wasn't uncomfortable and I could sit down fine. For the record I'm average height and build.


Unless you don't sit on your a*s or you wear your jeans like a thug with your entire pants to the ground then I don't see how a huge folded BT keyboard and a thick 770 can be comfortable or not get damage while your entire body sits on it. :) I dunno man, its a long shot... that or you have alot of cushion(fat cells in the a*s) to make it comfy and pad the 770.

[Toontje]

Unless you don't sit on your a*s or you wear your jeans like a thug with your entire pants to the ground then I don't see how a huge folded BT keyboard and a thick 770 can be comfortable or not get damage while your entire body sits on it. :) I dunno man, its a long shot... that or you have alot of cushion(fat cells in the a*s) to make it comfy and pad the 770.

No need to insult people. I wear my N800 regularly in my pants pockets as well. I wouldn't wear it in my back pockets though.

Discussion closed.

Ton.

[rs-px]

Unless you don't sit on your a*s or you wear your jeans like a thug with your entire pants to the ground then I don't see how a huge folded BT keyboard and a thick 770 can be comfortable or not get damage while your entire body sits on it. :) I dunno man, its a long shot... that or you have alot of cushion(fat cells in the a*s) to make it comfy and pad the 770.

Are you a small skinny guy? Seriously, the 770 fits in my pocket just fine. I'm a regular 35 year old guy who wears his jeans like any other 35 year old. Other people here have said that their Nokia tablets are pocketable, and that's one of the reasons why they like them. I think the problems you're having are entirely personal to you.

[rs-px]

Who should buy a Asus Eee:

College students:
I'd advise college students to get a good quality laptop. But if they really want an Eee, then it's not an entirely bad option. On its own the Eee is lacking but if it can be combined with an external monitor plus keyboard and mouse, it offers a reasonable computing platform. Slip the Eee into your backpack for taking notes during seminars and then, when you get back to your dorm room, plug in the monitor, keyboard and mouse. You should be able to run the monitor at its full resolution.

Incidentally, MySpace and FaceBook are just about OK on the small screen. YouTube runs great, as do most video files that might be downloaded (maybe some sound sync problems on WMV files). Some highly personalised MySpace pages can bog-down the browser and are sometimes too wide to fit, but that's true even if you're browsing MySpace using a standard desktop computer :)

Of course, there's no version of iTunes for Linux. The speakers are surprisingly loud but lack bottom-end and are prone to distortion.

Beware that I was unable to connect to my WPA network, and had to switch it down to the older and less secure WEP. This issue is fairly typical for current desktop Linux. Also, as far as I can tell, only WPA Pre-shared Key is accepted. I understand that some college networks insist on WPA Enterprise or even WPA2.

School kids:
As mentioned, smaller kids will love this notebook. It's like Mattel created a notebook just for them, taking into account their size. Most kid-orientated sites tend to be built around lower-resolution screens anyway. High school kids will berate the lack of an optical drive (no DVD movies), and, as mentioned, Facebook and MySpace only just fit into the small screen. So they'd be better off with a standard laptop. There's a good selection of educational software preinstalled, however, but mainly aimed at the lower age range.

Sysadmins:
The Eee is a neat network diagnostic tool. It's small enough to fit into a toolbag with other bits and pieces, and you can install just about any x86 OS on it provided you have an external optical drive (bear in mind that you'll need an XP disc with SP2 slipstreamed into it; I guess this means Win2K and NT won't install). So you could even put OpenSolaris on there, for example. The only slight issue might be that the network port is 10/100 and not gigabit; the wifi is b/g but not n, although appeared to get a stronger signal than both my MacBook and 770.

Mobile workers:
There's some modest PIM/calendar software, but no bluetooth, so you can't share contact info from your phone. But for checking emails while out and about, or casual browsing at the coffee shop, the Eee is in its element. Note that I'm unable to test Outlook web access (OWA), but the standard version of Firefox is provided, so it should work (although IIRC you're limited to a cut-down version of OWA). The default mail cilent, Thunderbird, works only with POP or IMAP. Kmail is provided as part of Kontact, the PIM suite, but that too only works with IMAP and POP3. You should be able to install the Outlook Exchange-compatible Evolution if you setup the Xandros package repositories, but this requires quite a lot of knowledge of how Linux works.

The Eee is ideal for the office worker who's prepared to step outside the mainstream and take-on new technology. It's small enough to fit into just about any bag/briefcase (even a large handbag), and also pretty rugged (it's a misnomer to say that the Eee has no moving parts, because it has a fan; it just has no moving hard disk component). Its pearl white case doesn't look very businesslike, however. What have manufacturers got against grey or black nowadays?

Media server:
On my 4GB machine, there was just 1.2GB left. On the other hand, the small power draw is ideal for a media server, and you can plug in an external hard disk via USB. But be aware that the default OS doesn't appear to offer a way to share folders across a network unless you start hacking things. On balance, it's not good value to buy the Eee for use as a media server. You might as well buy a second-hand notebook or even a full PC.

Edit: Actually, the Eee's file manager app lets you share folders for accessing via Windows or Macs. So it's pretty easy. My MacBook had no trouble seeing the shared folder straight away.

[fanoush]

On balance, it's not good value to buy the Eee for use as a media server. You might as well buy a second-hand notebook or even a full PC.
Or NSLU2 or any linux based wi-fi router in ~100$ range with USB ports (like Asus 500gP). Full PC or notebook may be overkill both for price and power consumption.

[Zoso]

There is something special about Nokia tablets

Out of interest, what do you see as the key difference between an N800 and, say, a Palm TX? Both have WiFi, bluetooth, pick up e-mail, browse the web, have a wide range of available software, they take SD cards, play music and video... The N800 does some of that a lot better (notably browsing the web on its far superior screen), but it looks much more evolutionary than revolutionary to me.

[MoridinBG]

Comparing music playing on any Palm/WM device to Kagu/UKMP is like comparing Paint to GIMP. The N800 is surely pocketable, unless you wear tight jeans (it is possible, but don't try to bow).

And it's really annoying to write 2-3-4 sequent posts. When you later think of something new, just hit the Edit button.

[GeneralAntilles]

<trolling garbage />

Does it seem to anybody else like we get more than our fair share of trolls on these forums? It's like disgruntled Palm/WinMobile and iPhone users just register here to bug us because they're unsatisfied with their own devices.

earl00, don't you have something better to do than sit here all day trolling? Like a job, or a family or something? Heck, slashdot is always in need of more trolls, why don't you try your hand over there? :rolleyes:

I think you are wrong there. IF the IT's had not only Linux but more of a useful user interface, they would actually be useful and fun to use.
Yesterday i installed Penguinbaits KDE and it transformed my otherwise taskless IT into a almost full fledged Linux PC. With the possibility to run PIMs.
Nokia made the mistake here. I hope they will correct it in the future.


I disagree here. The fullblown Linux desktop GUI just isn't appropriate for a device of this size or form factor. OS2008 will fix many of the porting issues by bringing Gtk up to date, anyway.

[GeneralAntilles]

Out of interest, what do you see as the key difference between an N800 and, say, a Palm TX? Both have WiFi, bluetooth, pick up e-mail, browse the web, have a wide range of available software, they take SD cards, play music and video... The N800 does some of that a lot better (notably browsing the web on its far superior screen), but it looks much more evolutionary than revolutionary to me.

I believe this is a question that can only be answered by using one, but, trust me, it's a whole new way of looking at mobile computing.

[Toontje]

I disagree here. The fullblown Linux desktop GUI just isn't appropriate for a device of this size or form factor. OS2008 will fix many of the porting issues by bringing Gtk up to date, anyway.

Ok, so maybe i have to clarify this a bit.
I installed KDE on my N800 and suddenly i noticed that there are a wide range of applications suddenly available to me which weren't available when i was using the N800 out of the box.

Examples are:
Kopeke, KView, KStars, Lots of games, Samba, KGet, KVirc, Mailody, Konqueror, KNewsTicker, Kaboodle, etc, etc

All these apps MIGHT be available or made available using Hildon, but i haven't seen them yet.

Hardware is nice, OS is nice, but it's the applications that make a device useful or not. At for me, Nokia has made the wrong choice to use Hildon instead of something the developers know. Unless the IT is meant to be for geeks/developers, of course.

Ton.

[rs-px]

I believe this is a question that can only be answered by using one, but, trust me, it's a whole new way of looking at mobile computing.

I completely agree. This is actually a weakness of the Nokia tablet design -- you don't realise how good it is until you actually use one. Until that point it just looks like another gadget. Worse than that, on paper alone it doesn't even look like a very good gadget, especially if you're a fan of PDAs.

It's down to Nokia's marketing department to show people how useful the tablets are. Unfortunately, mobile phone advertisements tend to show beautiful young people running through fields of wheat, rather than actually showing how useful the device is. Apple does a pretty good job of this -- the current iPhone ads show real people showing how they use their phones.

[rs-px]

Incidentally, over on the eeeuser.com forum, they're reporting that the CPU speed of the Eee runs at 667MHz, and not 900MHz. This is because the FSB runs at 66MHz, with a 10x multiplier. The chip itself can do 900MHz but it needs to be run with a 100MHz FSB for that to happen.

Apparently there's a BIOS update available that lets you up to the bus speed but it makes the system unstable to the point of not even booting on occasion.

From what people are saying, ASUS have never said it runs at 900MHz. It's simply the case that reviewers made the claim.

I should point out that it seemed plenty fast to me and it's not really right to judge these machines on clock speed. It's more about what they do, rather than how fast they are.

However, this does mean the Eee is only 266MHz faster than the N810 (or the N800 running OS2008).

[technut]

I think Nokia would make more sales if they included basic PDA software and advertised the device as both a PDA and an Internet Tablet... what's the harm in covering both markets? They would attract a lot more interest from the average consumer who already knows what a PDA is and can see themselves needing/using a PDA.

Or does Nokia seriously think people are going to buy a cellphone, a PDA, AND an Internet Tablet??

[rs-px]

I think Nokia would make more sales if they included basic PDA software and advertised the device as both a PDA and an Internet Tablet... what's the harm in covering both markets? They would attract a lot more interest from the average consumer who already knows what a PDA is and can see themselves needing/using a PDA.

Or does Nokia seriously think people are going to buy a cellphone, a PDA, AND an Internet Tablet??

I think Nokia expects people to carry a phone and an Internet tablet. This is cool. I do this, and it isn't demanding. You forget that PDAs are only used by a small selection of the population compared to mobile phones.

There are some fundamental reasons why Nokia chose not to include PDA functionality. The main one is that they intended to carve out a new niche for themselves upon the release of the 770 -- the Internet tablet niche (I prefer the phrase "Personal Internet Device"). If they'd included PDA stuff then people would have assumed it was a PDA, and thrown it into that camp. People like to categorise things :)

Secondly, if they'd included PDA functionality, people would have reviewed the tablet as a PDA and marked it down accordingly. Magazines would have paid particular attention to handwriting recognition, for example. Several reviews would have moaned about the lack of a dedicated text entry area, as with Palm devices, or shortcut buttons to the main PDA functions. Other reviews would have compared it to Pocket Windows, which is mature, when OS2005 was immature at the time.

Thirdly, the PDA market is already crowded with some major players (Microsoft and Symbian), and at the time Nokia was developing the 770, Palm was going through hell. Launching a new PDA at that time (and even now) would be commercial suicide.

[TA-t3]

I still think it's wrong of Nokia to dismiss the PDA functionality. I think it's a trap to think 'use case' (e.g. "before we design and implement: What are you supposed to be doing with this device?") here. It's not a phone, or an MP3 player, or a shaving machine, it's a programmable computing device and should be treated as such. A lot of people will probably end up using the thing for something they didn't have a flicker of an idea of when they bought it. So, I don't really want too much second-guessing of use cases from the vendor's side..

[Hedgecore]

PDA functionality isn't constrained to form factor; Nokia met that form factor on their first try, the 770. With all the developers out there, why has nobody created a decent software suite? I realize there's a lot of stuff to take into account, but I find it absolutely bizarre it hasn't been done in the community... and by 'done', I mean 'done well'.

So far as Nokia not doing it themselves... they've eluded to it in comments of their 5 step program. They're banking on the future, it's a wired world and eventually we *will* be interconnected everywhere. The lessons they learn by 'reserving' their place in that upcoming market will be ones everyone else will be scrambling to catch up on. Everyone from this point onward will be imitators, not innovators in the internet tablet game. Officially sponsoring PDA functionality will make the N810 a PDA... an already overcrowded market.

Except Apple. Anything Apple does, no matter how similar to others, is 100% original and looks good in a room full of IKEA. When their Internet Tablet comes out the sheep will feast. (From the comfort of their EKTORP couches.)

[Capt'n Corrupt]

Nokia would be wise to use the mechanisms of Software Bounties or Competitions to spawn development in key areas (namely a decent PIM suite), rather than trying to do it all themselves, in-house. This is the beauty of the open model.


}:^)~
YARR!

Capt'n Corrupt

[rs-px]

There's been a lot of talk about installing WinXP on the Eee. This is easily done because the Eee is little more than a miniature x86 notebook, although you'll need an external DVD drive and also one of the recent SP2-enabled XP install CDs because this has a tweaked installer allowing for USB-based install.

The problem is that the Eee has a solid state drive (SSD), which has a limited lifespan because of reduced write cycles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solid_state_drive#Disadvantages) compared to a standard hard disk.

Windows is constantly saving temp files, and loves to use that swap file (particularly considering the Eee only has 256/512MB of memory). Linux is arguably simpler in its hard disk use. The default install of Xandros on the Eee doesn't include a swap file or partition. I'm not sure if the logging services are trimmed too, but that would make sense.

There are also dangers in using any kind of indexing service, such as Google Desktop.

The most sensible recommendation if you want to install XP is to increase the memory to 1/2GB (which will invalidate your warranty, btw), and then either switch off the swap file or shift it onto a removable storage card (the Eee has a MMC/SD port built in). You should also shift your /tmp directory onto removable storage.

But the fact of the matter is that Windows XP just isn't optimised for solid state drives. Then again, if the Eee's disk fails in, say, three years, is this likely to be a problem? Will you still be using your Eee in three years or will you have moved onto something newer?

[Karel Jansens]

Then again, if the Eee's disk fails in, say, three years, is this likely to be a problem? Will you still be using your Eee in three years or will you have moved onto something newer?

Which is why it's kinda lame of Asus to have soldered the main SSD onto the motherboard.

[ldrn]

There's some modest PIM/calendar software, but no bluetooth, Oh, wow. I can't believe I missed that before; I'd always just assumed... well, thanks. :) I was almost selling myself on one as a walk-around-IRC device (... that is very lame but true), but now I think I will wait for the N810 instead and hope for the best for its thumb keyboard. Thanks!

[rs-px]

You know, just now I picked my 770 up for the first time in a few days (since using my Eee). And I've got to say that I infinitely prefer accessing the web on the 770. It's better designed for the task. The operating system is better, the GUI is better, as is the form factor. I enjoy holding the 770 in my hand. The Eee, on the other hand, must be used like any other laptop. At the moment, as I type this, it's perched on my thighs rather precariously.

That said, for interacting with websites (entries of forums etc), then the Eee is better, because it has a full keyboard and interactive sites tend to use javascript or Flash, and benefit from the increased CPU speed.

But if I really want to interact with websites then I do it from my desktop computer. For example, while I might check emails while out and about, I only really reply to them while at home. Same for website forum postings.

So, really, my internet usage (and probably yours) splits into two types: reading, and interacting -- or passive and interactive. Portable devices tend to be crap at the latter, although Nokia and its competitors may yet pull something out of the bag. But the Eee only takes us a step or two further towards being able to interact with the Web while out and about. It's still a little impractical, and best saved until you get home.

[bunanson]

How come nobody talks about the voice command feature of the EEE, I think its cool. I think it is even more cool for the N800 as there is no keyboard. I would like to yell "E-video center CBS news" and here comes katie Couric on the screen, or "E-full screen, u dumb N800...." things like that. Another really really fun thing I read on the eeeuser.com, there is a thread trying to install opera, and talks about how opera is a better webbrowser than firefox and here in this forum we tried so hard to get microB onto the tablet instead of opera. Grass is always greener the next door. BTW, the video handling in the EEE is superb, it plays Divx, Xvid and streamed nicely with youtube and stage6.com. Other than the resolution of meager 800X480, its physical dimension sucks too. Its case dimension is 8.94" X 6.5" (just from memory, I could be wrong) but the screen has a physical dimension of 1.25" - 1.5 " all around, go figure.

bun

[rs-px]

How come nobody talks about the voice command feature of the EEE, I think its cool. I think it is even more cool for the N800 as there is no keyboard. I would like to yell "E-video center CBS news" and here comes katie Couric on the screen, or "E-full screen, u dumb N800...." things like that. Another really really fun thing I read on the eeeuser.com, there is a thread trying to install opera, and talks about how opera is a better webbrowser than firefox and here in this forum we tried so hard to get microB onto the tablet instead of opera. Grass is always greener the next door. BTW, the video handling in the EEE is superb, it plays Divx, Xvid and streamed nicely with youtube and stage6.com. Other than the resolution of meager 800X480, its physical dimension sucks too. Its case dimension is 8.94" X 6.5" (just from memory, I could be wrong) but the screen has a physical dimension of 1.25" - 1.5 " all around, go figure.

bun

Installing Opera is easy. Just download the statically linked Linux version. I suspect they want to install it because there's a zoom in/out feature, so you can make sites fit on the screen .... just like on the Nokia tablets!

But it isn't the same because the Nokia tablets have incredibly low dot pitch, so zoomed out sites still look crisp and readable. On the Eee, crappy small point sizes makes the page unreadable. Additionally, while you can move the Nokia tablet closer to your eyes to read the screen, the Eee just isn't designed for this. It's designed to sit on a tablet or on your lap :)

(Incidentally, the eeeuser.com guys don't need to install Opera for website zooming; Konqueror comes installed out of the box and has zoom in/out buttons on the toolbar. Pretty much all of KDE is present on the Eee with the exception of the desktop management software.)

[GeneralAntilles]

How come nobody talks about the voice command feature of the EEE, I think its cool. I think it is even more cool for the N800 as there is no keyboard. I would like to yell "E-video center CBS news" and here comes katie Couric on the screen, or "E-full screen, u dumb N800...." things like that.


I've used voice on a lot of platforms, it's an incredibly overrated feature. The N800 just doesn't have the horsepower for voice processing, not mention the fact that it makes you look like a ***** screaming at your computer in public.


Another really really fun thing I read on the eeeuser.com, there is a thread trying to install opera, and talks about how opera is a better webbrowser than firefox and here in this forum we tried so hard to get microB onto the tablet instead of opera. Grass is always greener the next door.


A lot of people think Windows is a better OS, too. Either way, it doesn't change the fact that Opera licenses cost money and we're limited to the old broken Opera 8.5 unless Nokia fronts the cash for an upgrade to Opera 9 and the licensing fees to distribute it with the device. MicroB is free, open, and extensible. You can't have GreaseMonkey with Opera.

[sherifnix]

I just installed an nLited version of XP onto my EEE and run firefox with the minifox theme and it browses everything perfectly. If I want "fit to screen" I just run Opera. It boots up in a about 12-15 seconds, though I just leave it on standby all the time.

Upgraded the ram to 1gb for $21 from newegg and disabled the swap. Everything runs perfectly, and I even do some questing in World of Warcraft (off an 8gb SD card).

Admittedly, I have only one problem with it. I'd like the screen to be 9" and reach the edges of the device. Things like streaming and youtube are a non-issue and run at full speed. I have iTunes installed and it streams from my NAS.

I wouldn't really consider it an "Internet Device"... its a computer. The OP seems to have a misconception of what the EEE was and it just shows disappointment in his writing. It works perfectly, and isn't really comparable to an N810/800.

If you want a "real" but small computer, then you get a 2lb EEE. If you want "pocketable" internet then you get an iPhone or Nokia Internet Tablet.

[dont]

Other than the resolution of meager 800X480, its physical dimension sucks too. Its case dimension is 8.94" X 6.5" (just from memory, I could be wrong) but the screen has a physical dimension of 1.25" - 1.5 " all around, go figure.

bun

It looks like there is enough room in the existing case for an 8.9" 1024x600 screen.

ASUS struggled to keep the price down and I read that the price of the display is what drove it up to where it is today so I guess that adding another $50-$100 to the launch price for a bigger display was simply not on.

I am going to wait for next year's model. If ASUS establish this as a new market segment then there will be lots of machines to choose from in future.

[rs-px]

I just installed an nLited version of XP onto my EEE and run firefox with the minifox theme and it browses everything perfectly. If I want "fit to screen" I just run Opera. It boots up in a about 12-15 seconds, though I just leave it on standby all the time.

Upgraded the ram to 1gb for $21 from newegg and disabled the swap. Everything runs perfectly, and I even do some questing in World of Warcraft (off an 8gb SD card).

Admittedly, I have only one problem with it. I'd like the screen to be 9" and reach the edges of the device. Things like streaming and youtube are a non-issue and run at full speed. I have iTunes installed and it streams from my NAS.

I wouldn't really consider it an "Internet Device"... its a computer. The OP seems to have a misconception of what the EEE was and it just shows disappointment in his writing. It works perfectly, and isn't really comparable to an N810/800.

If you want a "real" but small computer, then you get a 2lb EEE. If you want "pocketable" internet then you get an iPhone or Nokia Internet Tablet.

I'm the original poster :) Bear in mind my original review was written for owners of Nokia Internet tablets. Many guys on these forums have said they want to buy an Eee and I wanted to let them know what to expect.

It's amusing that you say I'm disappointed. I tend not to take technology personally :) but I would have returned the Eee if I didn't like it. Right now it's a perfect mobile word processing device for me, that also happens to browse the web very effectively. I probably won't install XP for the reasons mentioned above, plus the fact that I only use OpenOffice and Firefox, both of which are identical on Windows/Linux.

So when will I be using a Nokia tablet, Eee or my laptop?

If I'm leaving for a weekend away and won't be working then I take my Nokia tablet. It lets me check the web during quiet moments and is also a good media player.

If I'm going to the coffee shop to work for a few hours then I'll take the Eee. I'd like to take the Nokia tablet but it lacks a decent word processor (as I've mentioned before :rolleyes:). I have a bluetooth keyboard and if Abiword proves to be stable on OS2008 when I *might* end-up selling my Eee. I think a Nokia tablet + BT keyboard is a much neater and more portable solution.

If I'm going to work for a week at a remote office then I'll take my laptop computer. It's unthinkable that I'd take my Eee because, if I use it for more than a few hours, I'll be turned into a homicidal maniac because of frustration. It's just too small to be usable for actual work across that length of time. My hands will ache, my eyes will be sore.

[bunanson]

I've used voice on a lot of platforms, it's an incredibly overrated feature. The N800 just doesn't have the horsepower for voice processing, not mention the fact that it makes you look like a ***** screaming at your computer in public.


The Nokia's horsepower is a good point. I do not know how good the voice recognition of the EEE, just kind of curious that NOT a soul talks about it. Overrated? I guess different folks, different stroke. I kind of like it if it indeed perform what it advertise, I do have reservation about how refine it is. I do conceit the horsepower may render it useless, like, uh, the utube thing on Nokia?


bun

[mbrinkhues]

Is the EEE's screen a touchscreen or simply a small laptop-type?

[Drewvt]

Is the EEE's screen a touchscreen or simply a small laptop-type?

It's a regular screen, not a touch screen. Oh, and it's matte (as opposed to glossy like most laptops are these days) which is a bit of a disappointment from the POV of video watchers (glossy makes the colors of a movie seem more vibrant).

[rr0123]

I got an Eee too. No way it's a replacement for my 800 (or soon to be 810, whenever those puppies become available). But it's a cool little device, and it shows a lot of potential.

I'm excited by it because of the possibilities it raises for a very small, solid state based, Linux based UMPC. I use my UMPC's for very simple things like internet browsing and looking at basic office docs. The Eee goes to show that Linux can handle that just fine, as well as video and music.

Fatten the N810 some and you have the potential for a much more multifaceted device that is smaller and lighter than the current UMPCs, and with a much longer battery life.

[midtoad]

rs-px sees some good points and bad points with the Eee PC. Fair enough. Everyone will see the unit differently. But I don't agree with a couple of his points.

Firstly, to say that the Eee PC is a 'crap laptop' isn't fair, unless your definition of laptop means multimedia powerhouse and replacement for your desktop PC. But then, most people buying the Eee PC in N. America are not buying it as their primary or only PC. They're buying it for a number of reasons (http://forum.eeeuser.com/viewtopic.php?id=42) (see this thread on eeeuser.com forums). And many of them in fact want it because it is small, light, simple and cheap, not in spite of that. In fact, the Asus pres. came up with the idea of the Eee PC after hearing about the OLPC: he wanted to make a similar device for adults.

I'm not starting an Eee PC versus n800 battle here. Each of these devices has its own merits. Buyers of either one should really understand their motivation for buying one or the other, or they'll be disappointed. And, they'd better understand the pros and cons of each machine, so rs-px is right to point out the features and shortcomings of the Eee PC. Of course, one man's con is another's pro, so I'm here to offer another view.

I strongly considered buying an n800 after the price drop, but chose the Eee PC instead. Why? Not because the n800 is inferior, but the other device appears to meet my needs better. YMMV. I want a portable internet machine. And yes, the n800 and n810 are way more portable. But I realised what I dislike about my Palm and my Windows Mobile PCs are the tiny screens and the slow input method. I wanted a keyboard, and I'm typing this note on a Eee PC. It's actually pretty workable, and I'm close to 75% of my regular typing speed. One minor irritation: the right Shift key is not where I expect it, and I tend to hit the PgUp key instead. This post (http://forum.eeeuser.com/viewtopic.php?id=1359) explains how to switch them around.

I considered buying an n810 instead as it has a keyboard, but after using a UT Starcom for a while, I suspected that the n810's keyboard will be too small for touch typing - it's only half the size of the Eee PC's, after all. This essential difference alone will lead many people to buy the Eee PC over the Nokia. Yes I know I could use a bluetooth keyboard with the Nokia, and I do own one. In my case, I don't want to carry around another accessory. YOU may be okay with that, in which case the Nokia is a better choice. However, most portable BT keyboards require a flat surface to perate on; forget about typing on a train with the n800, but you could do it with the Eee PC.

Next point, screen resolution. Both Nokia and Asus have the same native screen resolution. One useful feature on the Eee PC as rs-px points out is the possibility to plug in an external monitor. I tried that and posted pics on flickr.com (http://www.flickr.com/photos/69493236@N00/sets/72157602972602447/).

I want to talk a bit more about screen resolution. rs-px mentioned that the small screen on the Eee PC means that many apps won't fit. He feels that the n800 doesn't have this problem since all its apps have been designed for the 800x480 screen. That's true. The question you'll have to ask yourself is whether you're happy with the limited selection of apps available for the n800 compared to the vast universe of apps available for desktop linux (and thus available for the Eee PC). For me, this wasn't a clear deciding factor, since I don't plan on loading many apps on my Eee PC. If I want to, say, do photo editing, I'll use my MacBook Pro instead.

More on screen resolution. One issue with Eee PC that rs-px didn't mention is that some of the apps that are installed (like kwrite and kate, available from the terminal if you are in Easy Mode, or else from the menu in advanced mode) have some dialogs that are bigger than the screen can display. I cursed this until I read that you can simply Alt-click on any window and drag it to where you want it, i.e. until you can see that hidden OK button.

[edit]: One more thing about screen resolution. rs-px complains that with Firefox, there's not many lines of content visible on the screen because of all the space taken up by the menu bar, address bar, etc, and you can't zoom in like on the N800. That's true. But since it's Firefox, there are a zillion extensions available for it, including Fuller Screen, which not only puts the browser into Full Screen mode, thus hiding the menu bar, but also hides the address bar, tabs and status bar, thus significantly increasing the vertical space available for content.

Another dislike of the Eee PC that rs-px mentions is the fan, which he says is like a Harrier jet. Now this is just dishonest reviewing. Over on the eeeuser forum, he posted (http://forum.eeeuser.com/viewtopic.php?id=1295) an item saying his Eee PC was defective because the fan was so loud. But over here, he's saying that his defective unit is the norm. Honestly, I never thought about the fan noise on the Eee PC until he mentioned it. On my unit, the fan noise IS discernible in a quiet room, though it's not much more noisy than my MacBook Pro under normal operation, and certainly way quieter than most PC fans (and way quieter than any Mac laptop when they spin up to max speed). If your ears are over 30 years old, you probably won't notice the fan in most environments. But if you're the sensitive type, by all means choose the Nokia since it has no fan at all.

But where I differ most with rs-px is with his claim that the Eee PC will ruin the concept of a mobile internet device; people will be disappointed with their experience of the Eee PC and give up on the whole shining ideal that the one true example of the concept (the Nokia) offered. What a load of horse-pucky! I could just as easily say that the Nokia will ruin the concept of a small useful computer for many people. They'll buy an n800, or n810, only to discover that it can be used for practically nothing since there's so little available software (and support for the OS is dropped when a new model is released), and they'll wrongly conclude that all small computers are like that - when in fact if they'd only chosen the Eee PC they would have realised that they had all of linux available to them.

At the end of the day, the arrival on the market of the n800, n810, Eee PC and others can only be a good thing, since it means more choice. Some of us may even choose to buy more than one device, right rs-px?

[bunanson]

My major complaint towards getting the Nokia Tablet, I have both 770 and N800 and probably will get 3 more N800s for my family members, is the horrible maintenance of the repository. Because of that, most of the installation/revision is worst than teaching a pig to dance. Whereas the eee, ownership of 48 hrs, and has since installed several apps have encountered zero problems with repository.

However, I still recomend the tablets for my family members because of the form factor. Yes, the repository is painful, but not enough for hire and fire. BTW, I have rdesktop/VNC of the two, eee into N800 vice versa, it is real fun.



bun

[rs-px]

Firstly, to say that the Eee PC is a 'crap laptop' isn't fair, unless your definition of laptop means multimedia powerhouse and replacement for your desktop PC. But then, most people buying the Eee PC in N. America are not buying it as their primary or only PC.

That's a very bold statement to make and I'm not sure what evidence you're basing it on :)

My issue with the Eee is that all the marketing material is pitching it at the ordinary user. The sales projections are extremely ambitious, meaning that Asus see this as a general user device for the man on the street. That's the evidence behind what I say right there.

What I think will happen is this: the ordinary user will see the Eee as a $400/£200 laptop, and think they're getting a bargain. It even looks like a full-scale laptop in the pictures because there's nothing to show scale. The spec will say "7-in 800x480 screen" but that's meaningless to most people.

But what they're getting is a specialised computer, not a general purpose computer. Yes, it can do general purpose stuff, but it requires compromises that the ordinary user might not be willing to make.

They're buying it for a number of reasons (http://forum.eeeuser.com/viewtopic.php?id=42) (see this thread on eeeuser.com forums). And many of them in fact want it because it is small, light, simple and cheap, not in spite of that. In fact, the Asus pres. came up with the idea of the Eee PC after hearing about the OLPC: he wanted to make a similar device for adults.

I don't think the Eeeuser.com forum reflects the average buyer of this computer. I think it reflects a geeky subset of the user base. Do you really think ordinary people who buy the Eee (students, kids, mom, pop, grandma) are going to look up a special forum and join a community, where they talk about internal specifications and how to hack Linux? I don't think so.

So don't take the views of eeeuser.com forum members as typical of Eee users :) If you know what I mean.

I'm typing this note on a Eee PC. It's actually pretty workable, and I'm close to 75% of my regular typing speed. One minor irritation: the right Shift key is not where I expect it, and I tend to hit the PgUp key instead. This post (http://forum.eeeuser.com/viewtopic.php?id=1359) explains how to switch them around.

We're agreed that everything is pretty good on the Eee apart from the keyboard and the screen. The keyboard is just about usable but some keys are in the wrong place. I cannot type a question mark without stopping typing and repositioning my hand. And if I hit Enter when I should have hit the apostrophe one more time I will murder somebody...

But if they put in a 1024x800 screen in there, then it would be excellent.

One more thing about screen resolution. rs-px complains that with Firefox, there's not many lines of content visible on the screen because of all the space taken up by the menu bar, address bar, etc, and you can't zoom in like on the N800. That's true. But since it's Firefox, there are a zillion extensions available for it, including Fuller Screen, which not only puts the browser into Full Screen mode, thus hiding the menu bar, but also hides the address bar, tabs and status bar, thus significantly increasing the vertical space available for content.

Or you can just select Full Screen from the menu :) This does help a lot but the point is kinda that Asus doesn't enable this by default, or install the plugins you mention (they're open source, so why not?).

The Nokia tablets include a full screen button and zoom buttons. The Nokia tablets are just better thought out. The Eee feels rushed by comparison, although I know that a lot of work went into the Linux distro it uses.

Another dislike of the Eee PC that rs-px mentions is the fan, which he says is like a Harrier jet. Now this is just dishonest reviewing. Over on the eeeuser forum, he posted (http://forum.eeeuser.com/viewtopic.php?id=1295) an item saying his Eee PC was defective because the fan was so loud. But over here, he's saying that his defective unit is the norm.

You've been so diplomatic until this point :) I'm offended you think I'm deceiving anybody. Look at the time and dates of the relevant postings. I didn't think the buzzing fan was a fault when I wrote my review. I thought that was just the way it was. I then posted on the Eeeuser.com forums to find out if it was a fault when I realised it probably wasn't right. Check the first message if you don't believe me.

I've arranged for a replacement to be sent to me and have been waiting to post here that I'd made a mistake and that the fan was broken. But the company concerned have been sitting on the package for the last few days (RM in the UK) so it hasn't arrived. I can't post until I have evidence. That would be dishonest.

To sum up, it looks like my Eee is faulty and has a buzzy fan. From what I've read, most Eees have an audible fan, but not one that's noisy. Most of the time they're genuinely silent. I'll confirm this when my replacement Eee arrives tomorrow (hopefully).

But where I differ most with rs-px is with his claim that the Eee PC will ruin the concept of a mobile internet device; people will be disappointed with their experience of the Eee PC and give up on the whole shining ideal that the one true example of the concept (the Nokia) offered. What a load of horse-pucky!

I believe that people will buy the Eee under false pretences, which will turn them off small Internet devices. When the prophesied fifth Nokia tablet arrives, as perfect as it is, people will think: "Well, I'm not too sure how usable portable Internet devices are. After all, that Eee I bought was really hard to use. A 800x480 screen just doesn't work."

Of course, they're ignorant of the fact that the Nokia tablets have an extremely high res screen, negating this issue, and also that they're optimised in functionality for a small screen (zoom controls, click and drag panning etc).

At the end of the day, the arrival on the market of the n800, n810, Eee PC and others can only be a good thing, since it means more choice. Some of us may even choose to buy more than one device, right rs-px?

I almost agree here :) I think it will be interesting, although I can't say it will necessarily be good. But hopefully other companies will try to compete, and there will be a decent marketplace of cheap and small computers. That can only be a good thing.

[DingerX]

The second-generation Eees are already slated for the Spring (G1 and G2 release timing sound familiar to anyone?). If the rumor still holds, it may not have a fan.

I'd also point out that the ITT crowd isn't a cross-section of n800 owners either; unless it truly is a geek-only device.

when you're comparing the Eee to the n800, you're comparing a "Fresh baked" system with one that is about to receive it's fourth major OS revision. Yes, the Eee will look rough now; Asus needs to build into the brand before they try to mass produce.
The thing has a use, and a role to play, any time you've got a flat surface available, and want to go through booting up a PC.

[rs-px]

TI'd also point out that the ITT crowd isn't a cross-section of n800 owners either; unless it truly is a geek-only device.

Actually, I'd say these forums do reflect typical Nokia tablet users :) And I'd also say the eeeuser.com forums represent Eee users right now.

But the difference is that Nokia is still flirting with geeks as part of their five-stage world domination plan, while the Eee aims for massive sales and non-techie users from the get-go. Apparently the Eee designers passed it around family and friends (http://members.forbes.com/global/2007/1112/024a.html) before final manufacturing to ensure they found it easy to use. The Eee is no geek toy. It's computing for the unwashed masses.

So the eeeuser.com forum won't represent typical users in, say, six months time if everything goes to plan. And, if Nokia's plans work out, this forum won't represent their typical users in two/three years time :rolleyes:

[fpp]

You may well be right, but I'd rather not, as these here forums are a lot more informative, entertaining and generally full of interesting people, than what I've seen of eeeuser and similar eee-related boards so far...

[midtoad]

My issue with the Eee is that all the marketing material is pitching it at the ordinary user.
when I look at the box the thing comes in, I see the following pics: a woman using it on a beach, two kids using it, a couple using it on a lawn, a woman by a lake holding it to her chest (it looks tiny in that picture). I do not see any pics of people using it in an office. And in the on-line description at Memory Express, I also see a pic of grandparents using it. the whole emphasis is on ease of use, not power. They clearly state it only has a 7" screen, and runs a simple version of Linux. I don't anyone is being deceived. But no doubt some people will try to do more with it than intended, and end up being disappointed.

I'm offended you think I'm deceiving anybody. Look at the time and dates of the relevant postings. I didn't think the buzzing fan was a fault when I wrote my review.

I believe you. Now, how about going back to your original post and clarifying that the noise you heard is the result of a bug or fault? Not everyone is going to read through 5 pages of forum comments to get to this point.

"A 800x480 screen just doesn't work."

So, that res screen doesn't work on the Eee PC but does on the Nokia? I actually don't see much difference. If the res is wrong,it's wrong on both machines. In fact it's worse on the Nokia since the screen is so small that the pixels are tiny - older people will find it very hard to use. If they hold it too close, it will blur (without their glasses), and if they hold it further away, they won't be able to see it. Sure you can zoom in and out, but all of that zooming and unzooming is a crutch to compensate for the too-small screen. I see the same problem with the iPhone, in fact. Having said all that, I'd love to see a Nokia-quality screen in the Eee PC. with the higher pixel density, you could achieve a 1024x768 res in the 7" screen. Or even higher in the rumoured version 2 with a 10" screen.

On the other hand, the Eee PC is not too small for some people, it's too large. It won't be portable enough for them. In that case, they should choose the Nokia.

[dont]

"A 800x480 screen just doesn't work."


You had 800x480? When we were young we only had 40x8 AND we only had characters, none of those fancy pixels:

http://oldcomputers.net/pics/trs80-100.jpg

http://oldcomputers.net/trs100.html


I actually thought this form factor was pretty good. You could type while sitting in an airline seat and still have room for a coffee cup.

[DingerX]

Yeah, those things were awesome! What did it have, 16k and a single-density floppy disk? Still, absolutely cool, and a real keyboard.
In all fairness, the screen was 320x64, but only supported 8x8 ascii characters.
(Man, I need to dig one of those out of the attic)

[earl00]

You may well be right, but I'd rather not, as these here forums are a lot more informative, entertaining and generally full of interesting people, than what I've seen of eeeuser and similar eee-related boards so far...

Maybe they are just bored out of their minds because the device actually works properly without any bugs so far and have no need to have threads after threads of bugs and people complaining about lack of apps or waiting for apps to be ported which never happen and if they do they never get out of beta or another OS like "2008" - everything needs to be ported once again. i think i'll just compile one of the millions of x86 linux apps now on my eee. No point in waiting for things to be ported here. openoffice anyone? haha good luck. :)

[GeneralAntilles]

If the res is wrong,it's wrong on both machines.


Hardly. The Nokia isn't trying to be a laptop, and the UI is designed with this pixel limit in mind. Besides, 225dpi is about as high as one could be reasonably be expected to go, and we also want to be able to keep these things in our pockets.

[maxinflixion]

This went from an honest review to a polarizing debate in a sneeze!

I was one of those Asus pre-order guys, who actually dropped their pre-order. I did so not because the product is bad, but because the n800 price drop hit, and I really did miss my 770 after selling it.

In my personal experience, ASUS has always put out quality product, so I do not doubt the eee is solid. Likewise, my n800 is a great product. Both have their pros and cons. Most of which are very well spelled out even in this thread.

If you're reading this, chances are, you're a geek. Accepting this fact, we are always on the hunt for the perfect gadget/toy.

I really think that the important thing to come from the EEE and iphone/itouch is awareness of "The Walkaround Web" and competition. This competition will hopefully drive Nokia/Apple/Asus/Android to give us that perfect gadget.

Spending $400 on an EEE is not much different from spending $240 on a n800+memory cards and bluetooth keyboard.

Buy what you like. Don't buy what you dislike, but buy one and cast your vote.

It's the only way these companies will make progress toward that perfect device.

Who remembers the HP Jornada clamshells? Back in 2001/2002, that thing was a millimeter away from the perfect device, but high prices drove consumers away and it was dropped in favor of Palm like devices.

[ldrn]

Yeah, those things were awesome! What did it have, 16k and a single-density floppy disk? Still, absolutely cool, and a real keyboard.
Not just any real keyboard: one with ctrl to the left of "A", how perfect! I wish all modern keyboards were like that, although it isn't hard to change. :)

[rs-px]

Yeah, those things were awesome! What did it have, 16k and a single-density floppy disk? Still, absolutely cool, and a real keyboard.
In all fairness, the screen was 320x64, but only supported 8x8 ascii characters.
(Man, I need to dig one of those out of the attic)

Picture the scene. I'm around 13 years old. I've watched the just-released-to-video Wargames so many times that I'm into triple figures. I can quote the film. I consider myself a hacker although all I really do is cause problems for the tech assistants at school *.

On the cover of a computer magazine I buy is a guy with one of those computers and an acoustic coupler (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acoustic_coupler), standing in a telephone box (http://images.google.com/images?q=telephone+box&hl=en&client=safari&rls=en-us&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=X&oi=images&ct=title). He's dressed in a trilby and trenchcoat, detective style. It is the coolest thing I have ever seen. I lust after such a setup for many years, pretty much until the Internet arrives. I still lust after it.

* A few years ago I was chatting on a newsgroup about my 'hacking' activities at school, which mainly involved copying games across our network. At one point we somehow discovered the administrator password for the network. All hell broke loose. I recited the story on the newsgroup, thinking it funny, but it was followed up by an irate reply from the very technician who had to chase us all up and fix the damage back in, like, 1986. Whoops. Small world :)

[sjgadsby]

I lust after such a setup for many years, pretty much until the Internet arrives. I still lust after it.

In a forum such as this, you're probably in good company. For instance, the Poqet PC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poqet_PC) calls to me to this day.

[dormant]

According to that Wikipedia entry:

The Poqet PC is powered by two AA-size batteries, through the use of aggressive power management, which included stopping the CPU between keystrokes, the batteries are able to power the computer for anywhere between a couple of weeks and a couple of months, depending on usage, and uses an "instant on" feature so that when you power down you don't need to go through a booting sequence, it just starts you right were you left off.

So why doesn't anyone do that now?

[fpp]

The Psion Series5 did exactly that, ten years later, and ten years ago :-)

[rs-px]

According to that Wikipedia entry:

{details about CPU clock cycles 'stopping'}

So why doesn't anyone do that now?

I read recently that some new processors are doing this, but I can't for the life of me remember details. I think it might have been the new PowerPC chips.

[rr0123]

I don't know how much of the above discussion is just theoretical, w/o having use the device, but having played with mine a bit, to me the 800x480 is surprisingly workable on the Eee. Things do get cluttered fast with tabs, sidebars, etc., but I just don't have those up. The fact that it's Linux makes a big difference, because they have obviously made the OS more friendly at that resolution. On Windows, 800x480 would be a problem. I also have an old Sony Picturebook and the 480 is a problem on that.

I continue to be impressed by the machine, and think that it really does have the potential to make some inroads with the masses if people give it a try. I think it's a fantastic option for people who can't afford a P1610 or TZ but want something to tote to the coffee shop or library, and do their serious computing at home on their desktop.

[DingerX]

They didn't have backlit screens... That'll drain your battery. And, by the way, the ARM
cpu can do some impressive power management tricks, as most of us know from
experience. x86 designs don't have the same autonomy. But they've got Openoffice.
Asus designs aren't all good: the asus mobo on my desktop failed the "Smoke Test," but then again, a year later Sparky still runs without issue. As long as it doesn't make a habit of it.

The Eee is much needed: I was waiting for it too, but with the delays, changes and my laptop's decision to send the dc to the case, I could wait no longer. The n800 I've ended up with does the job better than I imagined.

Oh, and I had the biggest 5th grade crush on a girl who had a Livermore Star 300 baud desktop acoustic modem.

[mbrinkhues]

After looking over the EEE's specs and prices we had an in-office discussion today and came to the conclusion that for a bunch of developers and/or consultics the EEE is the better system.

+ It can play PowerPoints using OpenOffice

+ It has a video out that I can use to attach a bigger screen or beamer (Always can be borrowed at the customers side these days)

+ Large (and expandable) conventional memory and an INTEL CPU means I can run quite a few Demo-Systems on it on a slow but useful base

+ The Keyboard is good enough for the average two finger + thumb typist

+ Small enough to travel in an attache case and still leave room

+ Clearly defined form factor (Subnotebook) instead of "new and undefined"

Now all we wait for is the 9'' model so we can install/use XP on the plattform.

[GeneralAntilles]

Well, the N800/N810 are N-series devices (note: the 770 is not—there is no such thing as an N770) and would, generally, be deemed inappropriate for office/business use.

[mbrinkhues]

The 770 looked like a nice PDA, had the size of a nice PDA, had the speed of a nice PDA.

If Nokia actually had included the Software to MAKE it a nice PDA I would even still use mine instead of my HCT based Smartphone these days. But since the Smartphone can do most of the stuff the 770 can (except Surfing and showing PDFs - not that the 770 does the latter all that good) AND is a Sync-Capabel Phone my 770 was relegated to a very few occasions where I needed a picture viewer/PDA viewer and don't have a PC nearby or can't/won't bring my Laptop.

With the thing failing more and more (likely dying RAM or Screen) it's not likely I get another Nokia Tablet.

[coastalguy]

Hey rs-px or anyone else for that matter,

The Eee sounds great for my purposes of web surfing and emails. I just couldn't handle the wireless keyboard with the N800. I was also finding it a little too laggy at times.

Do you know if the Eee or anyother similar UMPC has bluetooth built-in? That way I could tether it to my cellphone for on-the-go connections.

(Don't suggest a dongle! I can't tell you how many times it didn't work with my laptop.)

Thanks!

[rs-px]

Do you know if the Eee or anyother similar UMPC has bluetooth built-in? That way I could tether it to my cellphone for on-the-go connections.

(Don't suggest a dongle! I can't tell you how many times it didn't work with my laptop.)

Thanks!

No, it doesn't. However, the answer is not quite as simple as that :) There are rumours that the wifi chip also has bluetooth capacities. So somebody may hack a solution, although don't hold your breath -- the wifi chip is a new variant of the atheos chip, and that's proprietary. So no open source drivers exist for it right now.

So your only solution is a dongle, although I've yet to see anybody report any kind of Bluetooth working over on eeeuser.com forum (I've lost my BT dongle so can't test :(). The Eee has three USB ports and is just another x86 laptop in terms of hardware so it should work OK. But, you know, these are early days for the Eee. Additionally, I can't see any bluetooth functionality built into the default operating system (not even for file sharing).

As for your lagginess using a BT keyboard on your N800, I don't think this is caused by the keyboard itself. I have the same lag on my 770. Are you talking about typing ahead of the cursor when the sentence is more than a few lines long?

I'm hoping that the new OS2008 update will fix this, if only because of those extra 80MHz, but perhaps also because everything is much more GTK.

[Tuxedosteve]

Quite a few people have gotten bluetooth dongles working on the eee PC forum. I'll be setting mine up next week when I get my unit. It's not very complicated.

[moviecouple]

I currently have a N800 and will be buying the N810... that being said, I also bought 2 Eee PC's. One for myself and one for my wife. I really enjoy having and using the Eee PC. It is a great piece of technology, just like I thought the N800 was when I got it. The Eee PC is more PC than Internet Device and we are using them more as an alternative to our other laptops/desktops that we have. It is very easy to throw into a backpack and go. I can type on it with much more fluidity than I would be able to with the upcoming N810. But, in a car/train/bus/plane or whatever... you still have to pull the Eee PC out/pop it open and so forth. Where the N810 is a bit easier to pull out of a pocket and turn it on to use. I do feel there is more functionality to the Eee PC than there will be with the N810. The future is more promising I feel with the Eee PC.

These are 2 different beasts and in my opinion should not be compared to each other. One is more like a PC and the other is more of a mobile device.

I saw on the eeeuser board that someone said his Eee PC was liking to a remote control... just laying around the couch with is remotes. Easy just to grab when watching TV and you want to surf the net at the same time or jot down some ideas and notes. That is a perfect example of what the Eee PC is like.

I absolutely love the Eee PC and I am sure I will love the N810 too.

That is just my opinion though.

[rs-px]

The Eee PC is more PC than Internet Device and we are using them more as an alternative to our other laptops/desktops that we have. It is very easy to throw into a backpack and go. I can type on it with much more fluidity than I would be able to with the upcoming N810. But, in a car/train/bus/plane or whatever... you still have to pull the Eee PC out/pop it open and so forth. Where the N810 is a bit easier to pull out of a pocket and turn it on to use. I do feel there is more functionality to the Eee PC than there will be with the N810. The future is more promising I feel with the Eee PC.

I've had a week now with my Eee and I've learned to love it. But at the end of the day it's still a miniature laptop. You hit the nail on the head when you say the Eee is portable but you still have to "pop it open, and so forth". It has the same use scenarios as a notebook computer. It's just lighter and, when closed, more portable. I carry my Eee all around the house because it's just like carrying a book. I wouldn't do that with my MacBook. But when I open the Eee, it has to sit on the table/lap/arm of the chair, just like the MacBook.

The N800 is a completely different fish. You can just pull it out of your pocket and go. Once you're done, just drop it back in your pocket. This is a really important aspect of the appeal of the Nokia tablets. We're talking about liberty and total integration with our lifestyle.

If you have a bluteooth keyboard, an N800 can effectively mirror the Eee. The problem with the N800 is that it simply lacks software beyond the basics. If only it was x86 compatible. At least then users would have a choice -- use Hildon, or dual-boot into a traditional distro. Who cares if it doesn't look good? That's my choice to take.

[luca]

If only it was x86 compatible. At least then users would have a choice -- use Hildon, or dual-boot into a traditional distro. Who cares if it doesn't look good? That's my choice to take.


Well, debian is fully available for arm (I know because I have it running on an arm based "computer", originally sold as a network drive), so I suppose with some effort you could just run a standard distro on the tablet.

[moviecouple]

Exactly. This is why is was saying they are 2 completely seperate beasts. The Eee PC is more PC than Internet Device and the N810 is more of a mobile device than a PC.

I will use them both in a daily situation, but pound for pound I am guessing that I will use my Eee PC more since it has more functionality and I can accomplish more with it. But, in those situations where I know I am limited on time or don't have the space... I will use the N810.

As it stands right now... I don't mind carrying around my Eee PC everywhere I go. Like my cell phone, it just goes where I do... end of story. It is small, easy to open, 25 seconds to boot, and 6 seconds to close down. That is my idea of a portable device.

[pipeline]

The first thing i was amazed at was not the cpu power, nor large display, nor keyboard, nor bootimes, but the depth of the linux os software. While penguinbait is providing similar functionality with kde, its amazing to see how much more powerful a big-footprint os. Perhaps with the 810 i will be able to run full distribution by default (all on internal memory). Of course a full distribution does not make easy navigation when changing mp3s while driving :) I hope future ITs provide 'easy' UI and 'complex' UI modes to allow the different usability-factors.

That said, i nuked the xandros and put on xp to see what the hardware can do. Pretty impressed with the tradeoffs they made (underclocking) to allow fanless operation with light usage... if the fan was on all the time i would not want to use it much... would have been perfect if completely fanless.

I see both form factors getting more powerful so hard to say one will replace the other... but i hope eee's get cooler and make use of higher resolutions, and IT's get more depth/compatibility to os.

As of now though i can leave eee running at home and remote desktop into it on the road :) If eee was running ubuntu it might be able to compile for the IT :)

[JeffElkins]

This may or may not be pertinent to this discussion, but I just showed my N800/BT keyboard off to my granddaughter who is attending JR college and hauls around a laptop.

She was awestruck and wants an N800 so bad she can taste it. And here's Xmas coming up too :)

[bunanson]

If you have a bluteooth keyboard, an N800 can effectively mirror the Eee. The problem with the N800 is that it simply lacks software beyond the basics.



"The problem with the N800 is that it simply lacks software beyond the basics"...........upon open box. If you do not mind, as we are doing in this forum, say install Video Center/becomeroot/rdesktop/KDE/Konqueror/MMapper/Canola...I can go on and on, then the tablet is quite comparable to a functional laptop.

As Moviecouple nicely put it, one is a portable form factor, another one is a PDA form factor (Dont frame me, I never say the tablet is a PDA). They are two different form factors.



bun

[pipeline]

Yes different form factors used for similar things... so should the user interface part of the form-factor? Since ITs will get even more powerful should they provide konqueror power, hildon file browser simplicity/safety, or both? (By default/out of the box/fully advertised)

The sheer nature of the high dpi screen for internet surfing requires immersion in the interface while big buttons are on the side for easy navigation? This contrast of DPI (squinting at a portion of the screen while big cheerful buttons on the side) shows different expectactions about depth of user interface.

Nokia should have different resolutions like 3/4 (um 600x360) for use as an accessory and full dpi resolution for power use... and i think different window system for each. That might mean konqueror for full dpi and simple hildon for 3/4 mode.

Or as much as i hate to say it... an iphone interface and a full linux interface. Iphone looks to be a perfect 'accessory' interface which i would love to use while driving or not paying attention, but the IT's full resolution shines when using in a power mode like web surfing or full linux distro. Its distracting to mix the two into a single ui... that would require separate mp3 player, email, im, and maybe maps and calendar/pim features to be refactored for accessory use (out of the box)

[wls]

"The problem with the N800 is that it simply lacks software beyond the basics"...........upon open box. If you do not mind, as we are doing in this forum, say install Video Center/becomeroot/rdesktop/KDE/Konqueror/MMapper/Canola...I can go on and on, then the tablet is quite comparable to a functional laptop.

bun
You could go on and on but you would be less and less convincing.
It's closer to the truth to say that the number of usefull apps available from Maemo can be counted on your fingers and possibly using only one hand. Other than the half dozen "stars" there are only utilities and games ported over in hobbists spare time and a big number of then are only shell/dos apps. It is great that anybody can write their own apps from the open source code but the reality of that is a lot of the stuff is of little use except to the creator as a programming project for school and not of commercial quality.
You really have to lower your expectations to think that is a rosy scenario. Perhaps the compatibility changes to OS2008 will help to fix that, I hope so. Although the SDK for the Iphone/touch has not been relased yet, when it is you can expect to see a greater
number of developers start porting over their OSX apps then Linux developers for the 810.

[GeneralAntilles]

Nokia should have different resolutions like 3/4 (um 600x360) for use as an accessory and full dpi resolution for power use... and i think different window system for each. That might mean konqueror for full dpi and simple hildon for 3/4 mode.


Ugh . . . non-native resolution and fragmenting the interface at least doubling development work. Yeah, this post is rife with bad ideas.

What really needs to happen is the UI rules for Hildon need to be hammered down in a way that's as useful as possible for a device of this form factor and these rules need to be followed.

You could go on and on but you would be less and less convincing.
It's closer to the truth to say that the number of usefull apps available from Maemo can be counted on your fingers and possibly using only one hand.

Are we talking about apps from maemo or for maemo? Either way, this is a pretty weak argument. There aren't many apps available from their respective first-parties for any of the devices mentioned, and there's [i]no]/i] 3rd party development for the iPhone/iPod and the Asus only has so much because it's basically a full desktop Linux. Anyway, I call ********, would you like me to name some for you?


maemo mapper
FBReader
Rhapsody
xchat
Canola
mplayer
Skype/Gizmo
VNC (both server and viewer—I did a demo of the device over VNC for a couple of friends that were interested in buying . . . it was very cool stuff)
UKMP
Kagu
CarMan
Quake I/II
Doom
ScummVM
Tux Paint
Bomberman


These could hardly be considered "hobby" projects, and certainly wont fit on one hand (let alone two), and I'm not even going into all the awesome hackish and console stuff.

Really, the maemo platform is still in its infancy. Nokia has defined a whole new device category, and it takes time to get the ball rolling on the software side. Have they made some mistakes? Yes. Could things have been handled better? Sure (though certainly not by you or me ;)). The N810 is really the first general-public–targeted device in this category, and development will start picking up speed as the platform gains more popularity (especially as we're now much more compatible with Gtk upstream, which greatly lowers the barrier to porting GUI stuff). Just give it time. Needless negativity doesn't get anybody anywhere. :)

[pipeline]

Ugh . . . non-native resolution and fragmenting the interface at least doubling development work. Yeah, this post is rife with bad ideas.

What really needs to happen is the UI rules for Hildon need to be hammered down in a way that's as useful as possible for a device of this form factor and these rules need to be followed.


Hildon is basically taking a full linux ui and making it kinda iphone like... why would you need it otherwise.

The good side is that its pretty usable now...
The bad side is that it is custom user interface they are hoping to get developers on board for... and for a ARM architecture.

Hildon puritanism is one thing... but some folks will want full power and some folks will want easy interface.... you either fragment your user interface approach or you fragment your customer base. I dont think it would be that difficult to redesign those few apps i mentioned anyways and put a name/rules to that 'style' of big button applications that already exist... the very standards you probably think are 'ironing out' hildon.

[Tuxedosteve]

I got my eeePC yesterday and after nuking the default install and replacing it with Kubuntu I have a tiny laptop with enough power to do just what I want. It doesn't replace my N800 (And soon my N810) but it compliments it. They're different devices with different goals. If I'm in a shop looking at something and want to check reviews I'm not going to be pulling an eeePC out of my rucksack. And while sat at home watching TV the chances are I'm going to be sat with my eee rather than my N800.

We're allowed to love them both right? ;)

[rs-px]

And while sat at home watching TV the chances are I'm going to be sat with my eee rather than my N800.

We're allowed to love them both right? ;)

Yes, we can two-time the N800 :)

But what you're saying could apply to any small notebook computer. I used to use my iBook G4 when watching TV and that's probably about as small as a notebook can get and remain functional.

I'm becoming less and less enamoured of my Eee. Whenever I have to use it I get a feeling of dread... The keyboard is just a few milimetres too small and mistypes are common (in particular, hitting Enter instead of the apostrophe, and hitting Up instead of the right-shift). The screen is just a little bit too small for those stubborn sites that refuse to fit in 800 pixel width--maybe around 25% of the sites I visit.

In contrast, I enjoy using my 770. It's not perfect but it's really well designed and that somehow makes up for its deficiencies. I'm sure my N800 will be even better when it eventually arrives from Play.com. As mentioned, if they get a decent word processor working on OS2008, I'll get rid of my Eee.

I just don't think the Eee works as a design. It's a second-best option compared to a genuine notebook computer, whereas the N tablets are the best option in the circumstances.

[moviecouple]

I don't seem to have as many problems with the keyboard as most people seem to have. But then I write for a living and can type 180+ words a minute too. So a keyboard is a keyboard to me. The N810 with be more of a learning curve (with thumbs) than the Eee PC would be.

[rs-px]

I don't seem to have as many problems with the keyboard as most people seem to have. But then I write for a living and can type 180+ words a minute too. So a keyboard is a keyboard to me. The N810 with be more of a learning curve (with thumbs) than the Eee PC would be.

You are aware that if you can in fact type at 180+ words a minute then you're probably the fastest typist in the world? The world record holder can only manage a sustained speed of 150WPM (http://web.syr.edu/~rcranger/blackburn.htm). If you're managing better than that on the tiny Eee keyboard then I take my hat off to you.

[moviecouple]

On my work computer at work, they tested me and it was between 165 and 185 words a minute... and this was also including medical terminology. Haven't tested myself on the Eee PC yet.

But... I don't seem to have any problems using the Eee PC's keyboard. It's small, but is very useful.

[fpp]

Some bad news : it seems that the latest batch shipped to the UK do NOT have the mini PCIe slot built in anymore, like the demo units and first batch had. if it's not a bug, there goes the only expansion path for these nice little machines... (and just when the first mini PCIe SSD cards are coming to market, too !).

[nablet810]

Actually the N810 and Asus EEE have clearly different uses. The VGA output on the Asus EEE (at resolution of 1024 x 768 or higher) is its key advantage over N810. One can use the EEE at conferences/meetings for ppt presentations and last minute chages to presentations (a killer application for some). The N810 is better suited for things like GPS navigation and listening to music or reading ebooks (longer battery life). Both are so small that one could easily imagine carrying both for their different strengths and applications.



[QUOTE=pipeline;93162]Yes different form factors used for similar things...

[johnkzin]

yeah, I see them as totally different as well.

But with some overlap. for example, I prefer to use my N800 for taking notes in a meeting, instead of using a laptop. Laptops become little barriers on the table that separate users from each other (the physical half-barrier becomes a psychological barrier). My N800 doesn't do that, yet I'm able to take notes, I could use the camera app to take pictures of the whiteboard, and I could even record audio if I wanted.

That's one of the reasons I wish the N810 had a picture cam instead of a chat cam ... and why I hope whatever comes next has a decent quality picture cam. As it is, the N810 is going to make the "take pictures of the board" part harder, but the "take notes" part easier.

[Hedgecore]

The GF decided to take the Linux plunge a month ago and it's been nonstop battles with her crappy ATI video card ever since. Anyway, we picked up a $40 one with an nVidia FX5200 chipset which did the trick (she's playing with compiz now). I walked by a glass display case and it was almost like someone hooked me around the neck and stopped me dead in my tracks.

A shelf full of EEEs. That was the noise I made too, EEE! Then something in me snapped. I have a 770, which is my pocket-form-factor internet device. I've brought it on trips and it's sufficed (somewhat) and even bought a bluetooth keyboard to get around the horrid input methodology. But there in front of me was something else I could bring on trips. Hell, it'd even fit nicely in my cargo pockets. Ubuntu (real Ubuntu) seems to run pretty quickly on it, and even (not like I'd ever do something that dumb) XP does!

I don't want a $500 N810 anymore. I want a $400 ASUS EEE.

I should mention I didn't buy one because all they had were 2GB ones in pastel blue, pastel pink, and pastel green. I want a 4GB Galaxy Black w/webcam.

(And no, I don't feel the urge to carry every shred of media I have everywhere I go. (Besides, I've got a 40GB mp3 player to do that... and it'll connect to the EEE without me soldering a USB power injector.)) :D