Holding N810 to ear with Gizmo

[Capt'n Corrupt]

Hi guys + gals (are there any females in this forum?),

First off, I'm very well aware that the N810 was not designed as a phone.

One of my many uses for the unit, however would be voice communication. In other words, it will become a mobile handset for my in-home VoIP, and semi-mobile phone when I'm on the road (cafe's, offices, friends, hotels, etc).

After noticing the mic placement in the middle of the left side of the device, I'm wondering if the device can be held to the side of head like a regular phone (with proper volume adjustments), for very quick, private, and headset-less conversations. I noticed that thoughtfix was able to do this with his N770 successfully.

Can anybody confirm (or refute) the potential of the N810 as mobile hold-to-ear VoIP handset?

For those that are curious, here's some information regarding SIP based VoIP (Voice over IP, or internet telephony).

The reason I choose SIP (Gizmo Project, etc) is price and convenience. In Canada, a company called Acanac (http://acanac.ca) offers Unlimited SIP-to-phone calling in North America for $10/mnt, including a regular telephone number (so that regular phones can call you). I believe it's $9/mnt for people in the states. Additional numbers can be bought for as little as $5/mnt with unlimited incoming via various companies (didww (http://didww.com)), and even north american toll free numbers can be purchased for $1.49/mnt + $0.04/minute (link2voip.com (http://link2voip.com/rates.php)); ideal for small businesses trying to keep costs low and flexibility high.

Although I've never used Acanac personally, I've used Gizmo, didww, and link2voip and can confirm that the quality is amazing. It easily rivals regular telephone (in some case exceeds it), as long as you don't have too much network traffic :). I've tested voice latency between conversations with my conservative connection and found it to be very low (~0.2 seconds); not at all noticeable when talking.

Another benefit is that SIP-to-SIP calls are free anywhere in the world. SIP is an open protocol and the voice compression codecs are standardized. There are more than 2000 worldwide SIP based VoIP providers and a growing number SIP users. So the price for SIP based VoIP is only going to fall.

Lastly, you can currently receive calls from regular landlines to your Gizmo (or other) client without paying a cent. Simply
1) find a local access number (http://www.sipbroker.com/sipbroker/action/pstnNumbers;jsessionid=F279025AD034987E4DB995D40BE 3713E),
2) dial it
3) dial your sip number at the prompt (ex. 1-747-123-4567).
Presto, free phone-to-SIP.

If you have questions, feel free to ask, and I'll do my best to answer!


}:^)~
YARR!

Capt'n Corrupt

[hybrid]

I can't comment on the N810 specifically, but I use my N800 as an extension on my Asterisk/trixbox PBX and it works great. (Can someone confirm whether the N810 comes with the SIP software, or does it have to be installed later?)

When you hold it up to your ear it looks like any big cell phone. Normally I just leave it propped up on my desk and people tell me that it sounds like any speaker phone. At my local coffee shop I keep the volume and my voice turned down. The earbuds would be a good idea, but I never carry them around.

By the way, for anyone that is the least bit interested in having your very own PBX, get the free version of trixbox Pro and install it on any old spare computer. I have several VoIP phone numbers from a company called VoicePulse. My whole extended family has "extensions" on my system using the free X-Lite soft phone or the N800.

[dblank]

Can someone confirm whether the N810 comes with the SIP software, or does it have to be installed later?

Confirmed!

[Karwee]

Hi guys + gals (are there any females in this forum?), ...

Yes


... After noticing the mic placement in the middle of the left side of the device, I'm wondering if the device can be held to the side of head like a regular phone (with proper volume adjustments), for very quick, private, and headset-less conversations. I noticed that thoughtfix was able to do this with his N770 successfully.

Can anybody confirm (or refute) the potential of the N810 as mobile hold-to-ear VoIP handset?...

I just called the number to my house with gizmo and my dad picked up back in the office room. He said I sounded fine, as if I were on a cell phone. I had to raise the volume a tad on the device to hear my dad. But it could be that I'm just slightly deaf or my hand was covering a speaker.

Usually when I use gizmo or skype, I talk as if I were still touch typing. But as requested I put the device up to my ear in the orientation you described for this test :)

Hope it was helpfull.

[Capt'n Corrupt]

Yes

Nice!



I just called the number to my house with gizmo and my dad picked up back in the office room. He said I sounded fine, as if I were on a cell phone. I had to raise the volume a tad on the device to hear my dad. But it could be that I'm just slightly deaf or my hand was covering a speaker.

Usually when I use gizmo or skype, I talk as if I were still touch typing. But as requested I put the device up to my ear in the orientation you described for this test :)

Hope it was helpfull.

That's great news! A few simple questions, if I may:

1) Did your cheek inadvertently press any of the on-screen buttons? Can you see this being an issue?
2) Would you speculatively rate the conversation as mostly private (inaudible to people within earshot of your voice)?
3) Was it easy to use it as a mobile handset (little fiddling with settings)?
4) Could you see yourself doing this again in the future?
5) Does the size make it awkward to use as a handset? Would one look like a tremendous dork?

Thanks, Karwee, you've been a fantastic help. I've been eyeballing the N800 due to the more accessible price, but have been reluctant due to the lack of a keypad and mic placement (a BIG deal for me). Now that I know the N810 can be used quite easily (and effectively) as a VoIP handset, the N810 wins. The odd location of the mic in an N800, and its slightly-too-large-size (including the camera bulge) makes it less suited for this type of talking (something I can see myself doing often). I'd much rather hold the device to the ear for short, private conversations. Longer conversations, I can comfortably use the speaker. Long private conversations can be used with a corded headset.

Can others in this forum see themselves using the N810 as a VoIP handset?

How many people use their Nxxx's for VoIP routinely?


}:^)~
YARR!

Capt'n Corrupt

[Capt'n Corrupt]

Confirmed!

I'm assuming that this is Gizmo? Is it the latest version 4.0?


}:^)~
YARR!

Capt'n Corrupt

[Karwee]

...1) Did your cheek inadvertently press any of the on-screen buttons? Can you see this being an issue?
2) Would you speculatively rate the conversation as mostly private (inaudible to people within earshot of your voice)?
3) Was it easy to use it as a mobile handset (little fiddling with settings)?
4) Could you see yourself doing this again in the future?
5) Does the size make it awkward to use as a handset? Would one look like a tremendous dork?
...
How many people use their Nxxx's for VoIP routinely?
...

1. Well when you want to use it the way you describe, the whole gizmo interace will be sideways. All of the buttons will be on the end where your ear/cheek would be. I didn't hit any buttons but I can see how it would be easy to hit one of them on accident. Especialy with big ears or high cheek bones or long earings.

2. It is definatly not as private as a cell phone conversation. I see people in checkout lines and I'm relativly close to them and can't hear the other person they are talking to. But with the Nokia, it's got 2 speakers I think ? or maybe just 1...but either way it is very omnidirectional so sound kinda emits out all arround. Any one standing close to you(3-6ft) would hear whoever is talking to you; depending on a persons hearing. You can probably adjust the volume but then it might be to low if you wonder into a noisey environment.

3. I didn't have to fiddle with many settings at all. I had to make sure the webcam didn't turn on with the conversation, or else the other person would see a blurred out image of the side of my face.

4. Probably not, only because it defeats the purpose of having the web cam. The mic picks up sound very well using it as a tablet or as a cellphone.

I personaly don't use VoIP very much on the go. But if I were to start using it a lot, I would probably invest in a nice BT headset.

5. Ive seen people put clunky thick phones or PDAs up to their ear before and I don't really consider them dorky. This would look dorky tho:http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/cellphone/7830/

588

[Capt'n Corrupt]

Karwee, You've answered all of my questions and more. Thank you so very much.

I keep forgetting how small the N810 is! The pictures make it seem much larger than it actually is, but that picture you took puts it into perspective. Certainly it would look quite acceptable as a handset. The Eee PC? Not so much...

I love the fact that it's even possible to use it as a VoIP handset. I don't like the idea of walking around with a BT headset in my ear on the off-chance that I might receive a call. Fumbling with a corded headset to have a private conversation on the go, is also not very appealing. I'd much rather just jam the IT to my ear and talk, even if it's only semi-private.

Were I driving, or receiving a high volume of calls, a headset (BT or corded) would be ideal. Otherwise, speaker or handset emulation is alright with me!


Oh, and I would so use that old-style phone that you linked to. I know people that used to open walnuts and spank their children with those phones; a true convergence device...



}:^)~
YARR!

Capt'n Corrupt

[Karwee]

...Oh, and I would so use that old-style phone that you linked to. I know people that used to open walnuts and spank their children with those phones; a true convergence device...
...

Haha

Your welcome :)

[smammon]

Works quite well with the "internet call" feature too. I use a service called iconnecthere.com that offers local numbers and SIP. Works great - no matter how you hold it. BT headsets work well too.

[Capt'n Corrupt]

Works quite well with the "internet call" feature too. I use a service called iconnecthere.com that offers local numbers and SIP. Works great - no matter how you hold it. BT headsets work well too.

How's the battery life with the bluetooth headset in operation during a call? What about without it? Can a conversation go for around 2 hours before plugging in?

My phone conversations, though few, tend to go for hours on end, until I'm so physically and mentally drained that my sentences sounds like the utterances of two exhausted gorillas after intense lovin'.


}:^)~
YARR!

Capt'n Corrupt

[smammon]

How's the battery life with the bluetooth headset in operation during a call? What about without it? Can a conversation go for around 2 hours before plugging in?

My phone conversations, though few, tend to go for hours on end, until I'm so physically and mentally drained that my sentences sounds like the utterances of two exhausted gorillas after intense lovin'.


}:^)~
YARR!

Capt'n Corrupt

2 hours! Wouldn't happen to know my ex would ya? I couldn't possibly answer that - 2 minutes is a really long call forr me. I can say I havent noticed any horendous battgery usage on my short calls.

[kingka]

4 days untill my n810 is here. cant wait to try this out!

[Glenn7500]

Keep an eye on these guys, I heard they could have a few more services coming out that might get this working on the tablets. magicjack (http://www.magicjack.com)

[Capt'n Corrupt]

Thanks smammon. Kingka, I'm excited *for* you!

Keep an eye on these guys, I heard they could have a few more services coming out that might get this working on the tablets. magicjack (http://www.magicjack.com)

I've heard about this thing, but am extremely confused. It seems a little too good to be true. How is the company making money? Surely, PC to PC calls would be free (the participants pick up the tab), however, it costs money to reserve telephone numbers (as far as I know), and it costs money to use the telephone network. Are the wholesale prices for phone communication *that* low that the company can completely swallow them?

Does anyone know the wholesale costs (that a company would pay based on volume) of communication using the telephone network?

The lowest price I've seen (using the telephone network) is $10/mnt unlimited. That's $120/year, or roughly $100 more income per year than Magic Jack is charging. Perhaps they have adverts before calls? Perhaps they limit the number of outgoing channels.


My biggest concern is that the company is promising a model that they can't continue indefinitely. It wouldn't be the first time it's been done. GizmoProject at one point was promising free calls forever. Obviously, that was a bit of false advertising.


}:^)~
YARR!

Capt'n Corrupt

[TA-t3]

Ah, the retro phone.. very bad for keyboards. At least when there's coffee drinking occuring while surfing.

[Capt'n Corrupt]

I know this is a VERY late reply, but...

A friend of mine demonstrated his N810 and confirmed that he regularly uses it as a to-ear handset with SIP ($50/YEAR for unlimited calling to/from Toronto numbers).

Here are some details:

- The only requirement for its operation is adjusting the speaker volume so that it's low enough for you to hear without people around you hearing and having a WiFi connection.

- He comments that thanks to the AMAZING wifi radio in the N810, he often can get a signal practically anywhere in the city, and even at low connection strengths (as low as 8%) he is able to have flawless conversations.

- He uses RTCOMM (the included SIP software) and not Gizmo, though this solution would likely work with Gizmo as well, or any VOIP software with volume control.

- The quality is amazing. He's never had a complaint, and most people believe he's on a home-phone rather than a 'mobile phone.'

- Thanks to the wonders of SIP, his SIP number rings on both his N810 and his home-phone (which is hooked up via an inexpensive SIP router). When he answers one of the phones, the others stop ringing. Thus, he needs only one number which works effectively as a home-phone number *and* a mobile number when he's on the road.

- Thanks to the multi-tasking capabilities of the tablet, he can easily convert to 'speaker phone' (ie. increase the volume), and do other things during a conversation (eg. look up information, jot notes, send emails, IM, analyze files, etc).

- Because it is SIP, he can carry out 100% free conversations to other friends or users in his organization that use SIP.

- Thanks to the inexpensiveness of SIP he has at least one additional number pointing to his N810. You can find these numbers (DIDs) for around $5/month for unlimited incoming.

- He is NOT a tech-savvy individual, so setting all of this up was relatively painless.

- Did I mention that this only costs $50/year (~$4 / month) for unlimited calling to/from numbers in Toronto? ;)

- He describes the experience as "superior to any mobile phone he's used". In short: great quality, great price, and great flexibility. We reasoned that with WiMAX this solution would be unbeatable.

What a wonderful device the N810 is!

I just thought I'd post this message here, as it's useful information for anyone performing a search wondering if using an N810 as a mobile handset works, or how well it works. In short, it works EXTREMELY WELL.


}:^)~
YARR!

Capt'n (SIP) Corrupt

[xxM5xx]

ARGH !!! Ahoy Matey !

Instead of "side talking" on the N800 / N810, use a bluetooth headset with it.

http://www.sidetalkin.com/page-1.html

If you do not own a BT headset use the hardwired ear buds which come with the Nokia for your calls, or you "could" use ordinary headphones and the internal mic of the Nokia. One problem using the internal microphone for VOIP calls is that the microphone is so sensitive it picks up all room noise and sends it through to the other party. If you are in a quiet room this is fine, but in a coffee shop, airport, train station, the ambient noise is too great, so forget about it. This applies to "side talking" too. Using the wired Nokia headset or a BTooth headset yields the best results all around.

I have 6 SIP services registered on my N800, plus Skype. Calls from all over ring into my N800, and I can place outgoing call to PSTN, and SIP numbers with ease. I do it everyday. In a pinch, I just hold the N800 in front of my face and talk. I do not side talk.

[rjzak]

ARGH !!! Ahoy Matey !

Instead of "side talking" on the N800 / N810, use a bluetooth headset with it.

http://www.sidetalkin.com/page-1.html

If you do not own a BT headset use the hardwired ear buds which come with the Nokia for your calls, or you "could" use ordinary headphones and the internal mic of the Nokia. One problem using the internal microphone for VOIP calls is that the microphone is so sensitive it picks up all room noise and sends it through to the other party. If you are in a quiet room this is fine, but in a coffee shop, airport, train station, the ambient noise is too great, so forget about it. This applies to "side talking" too. Using the wired Nokia headset or a BTooth headset yields the best results all around.

I have 6 SIP services registered on my N800, plus Skype. Calls from all over ring into my N800, and I can place outgoing call to PSTN, and SIP numbers with ease. I do it everyday. In a pinch, I just hold the N800 in front of my face and talk. I do not side talk.

I saw we all totally rock the sidetalk! :cool:

[j'vai]

Thanks smammon. Kingka, I'm excited *for* you!



I've heard about this thing, but am extremely confused. It seems a little too good to be true. How is the company making money? Surely, PC to PC calls would be free (the participants pick up the tab), however, it costs money to reserve telephone numbers (as far as I know), and it costs money to use the telephone network. Are the wholesale prices for phone communication *that* low that the company can completely swallow them?

Does anyone know the wholesale costs (that a company would pay based on volume) of communication using the telephone network?

The lowest price I've seen (using the telephone network) is $10/mnt unlimited. That's $120/year, or roughly $100 more income per year than Magic Jack is charging. Perhaps they have adverts before calls? Perhaps they limit the number of outgoing channels.


My biggest concern is that the company is promising a model that they can't continue indefinitely. It wouldn't be the first time it's been done. GizmoProject at one point was promising free calls forever. Obviously, that was a bit of false advertising.


}:^)~
YARR!

Capt'n Corrupt



on another site, i saw this majic jack discussed some years ago, & i see the link their site glosses over their terms of service, ha here you go #11, this is how they can keep it so cheap

"11. Advertisements
You also understand and agree that use of the magicJackTM device and Software will include advertisements and that these advertisements are necessary for the magicJackTM device to work and for the service to be free in the first year of the agreement (and subsequent licenses to be at minimal cost). Advertisements will be served through the magicPageTM Software. magicPageTM Software attempts to serve local advertisements and classifieds using a completely automated process that enables us to effectively target dynamically changing content. Our computers may analyze the phone numbers you call in order to improve the relevance of the ads. We do not provide any personal information to our advertisers or third parties. magicJack has a policy of restricting advertisers that it believes are inappropriate, but it does not guarantee the accuracy or integrity of any advertisers and does not endorse any of the advertisements that may appear in connection with use of the magicJackTM device. You also understand and agree that use of the magicJackTM device and Software may include certain communications, such as service announcements, administrative messages and newsletters, and you will not be able to opt out of receiving them."

[j'vai]

Nice!




That's great news! A few simple questions, if I may:

1) Did your cheek inadvertently press any of the on-screen buttons? Can you see this being an issue?
2) Would you speculatively rate the conversation as mostly private (inaudible to people within earshot of your voice)?
3) Was it easy to use it as a mobile handset (little fiddling with settings)?
4) Could you see yourself doing this again in the future?
5) Does the size make it awkward to use as a handset? Would one look like a tremendous dork?

Thanks, Karwee, you've been a fantastic help. I've been eyeballing the N800 due to the more accessible price, but have been reluctant due to the lack of a keypad and mic placement (a BIG deal for me). Now that I know the N810 can be used quite easily (and effectively) as a VoIP handset, the N810 wins. The odd location of the mic in an N800, and its slightly-too-large-size (including the camera bulge) makes it less suited for this type of talking (something I can see myself doing often). I'd much rather hold the device to the ear for short, private conversations. Longer conversations, I can comfortably use the speaker. Long private conversations can be used with a corded headset.

Can others in this forum see themselves using the N810 as a VoIP handset?

How many people use their Nxxx's for VoIP routinely?


}:^)~
YARR!

Capt'n Corrupt


i did, this past sept, on a cruise... it was very convenient, i paid for the internet connection which was overpriced big tyme, but, it was convenient.. shockingly.. gizmo5 crashed trying it on the ship out at sea, while the native voip talk app worked.. @ home on my comcast connection, it's the other way around, except the crash, the talk app just doesn't connect...

when the ship ported @ tortola VI, theere was no roaming @ all for any us mobiles, i grabbed wifi signals around the port, & further inland, & called back here.. it's tymes like this where this tool shines hard, & saves you money.. i didn't look geek'd out ither, i just walk or sat around with the thing extended out in the palm of my hand, on the ship, i mostly sat while talking, @ the bar, or lounge area.. i keep the gizmo account topped off around $40. & i don't even use it alot.

[Capt'n Corrupt]

Great story! I especially like the part where the cellular customers couldn't make/receive calls, but the 'not-a-phone' tablet could! IRONY!


}:^)~
YARR!

Capperino

[danramos]

I've done this many times, actually. One time in particular, I had forgotten my cell phone at home but I really wanted to know if a friend of mine wanted to meet me en-route as I was out and about. So, I stopped off at a local ice cream shop along the way where they have wifi (Stone Cold, although it seems like Friendly's has them as well, and a LOT of fast food restaurants and coffee shops too, like McDonald's and Burger King, although the BK wifi is totally free while McD's and Starbucks costs money).

At any rate, it was handy to have my Gizmo account with a few bucks already invested in outgoing minutes (and it seems that it's only costed me about $20 every year and a half or so, with my usage)--so it's been VERY cost effective and convenient. I just pulled in, got myself a little ice cream (I'd feel bad otherwise) :) and made the call and we both ended up headin' out to a movie later, as it turned out.

My N800 totally fills in all the gaps a cell phone couldn't--MUCH cheaper--and, despite lacking 3G or any kind of TelCo data plan, it's still serves me quite well coverage-wise what with all the free wifi access in the shops around the highways.

[qole]

The other free (inside North America) calling option is the GrandCentral service and the GrandCentral Dialer (which I think is available in Extras now). Us Canadians can't get a local number, so you're not likely to get your local friends calling you using your GrandCentral number, but you can make free calls anywhere in North America and have it ring your Gizmo number so you can use your tablet for free phone calls. If you are in the States, you can get a local number and use it for incoming calls, too. Canadians can receive free phone calls using the GrandCentral "call me" web button.

PS: I don't do the "side talking" thing with my N800; I just use ear buds and hold the mic up to my mouth with both hands...

[danramos]

The other free (inside North America) calling option is the GrandCentral service and the GrandCentral Dialer (which I think is available in Extras now). Us Canadians can't get a local number, so you're not likely to get your local friends calling you using your GrandCentral number, but you can make free calls anywhere in North America and have it ring your Gizmo number so you can use your tablet for free phone calls. If you are in the States, you can get a local number and use it for incoming calls, too. Canadians can receive free phone calls using the GrandCentral "call me" web button.

PS: I don't do the "side talking" thing with my N800; I just use ear buds and hold the mic up to my mouth with both hands...

Thanks for bringing that up! I used to do that a lot too.. but then I started to realize how CHEAP the minutes were on Gizmo... but GrandCentral IS a good way around paying at all. :)

Also, yes--I've used headphones and just talked into the microphone as well. but I don't often have my wired headphones anymore and I haven't tried using my Bluetooth headphones to make Gizmo calls yet. I might just have to try it tonight, now that I'm reminded about it.