Like or Dislike: The N810 Camera [Archive] - maemo.org

Capt'n Corrupt

11-28-2007, 10:58 AM

This conversation follows from the "FM Radio N810" thread which abruptly caromed into a "N810 camera" discussion.

Assuming that the N810 camera will be supported with software at some point, do you appreciate its inclusion in the tablet, or despise it? Why?

If you are an N800 owner, how often do you use the camera?

What type of software would be needed in order to increase the amount that you'd use the camera (if at all)?

I personally can't see myself using the camera very often, though I'm glad it's included; there will be occasions where video-chat would be a nice luxury for me (communicating with family, friends, and girlfriend when away).

After seeing the exposure quality, it would be nice if software used a noise filter to reduce the amount of grain on the resultant images.

}:^)~
YARR!

Capt'n Corrupt

zerojay

11-28-2007, 11:20 AM

I used the N800 camera fairly often for taking pictures, despite the amount of grain and general lack of quality. Just having it around was convenient... just wish the camera apps weren't so instable.

heavyt

11-28-2007, 11:33 AM

I am a N800 owner and use the camera with the application Camera-2.9-2video. I use the camera now and then to take snap shots/videos of events or moments when a real camera is not around to use (that happens often) when am out and about.

I would LOVE to use it for video-chat, that was the main reason I gave $400.00 to Nokia, base on their implied promise that the N800 would allow me to have video-chat, one year later and am still waiting! We call that unlawful action "Bait and Switch" in the US. Maybe a class action suit would help Nokia refocus on their promise. :mad:

Software to improve the exposure quality sounds very good to me. :cool:

zerojay

11-28-2007, 11:40 AM

There's no way you could call it bait and switch whatsoever. You can video chat and always have been able to... it's just that you'd have to have another N800 or a client on the Windows side that supports Jingle, which there isn't yet. Hardly Nokia's fault. The tablet to PC software was beta and taken down because it wasn't very good and because they'll be replacing it with something else in the future.

barry99705

11-28-2007, 11:45 AM

rcadden

11-28-2007, 11:56 AM

The problem is, they never said you need a second Nokia to do the video chat.

With OS2008, you don't need one. Gizmo v4.0 on the PC supports video chat, as does the new Gizmo client on OS2008 (which is now available on both N810 and N800).

I put together a video demonstrating this over at Tablet-Guru.com, and please feel free to use your N810 or N800 with OS2008 to give me a video call over Gizmo: grcadden.

http://www.tablet-guru.com/2007/11/gizmo-project-tablet-to-pc-video-calling/

heavyt

11-28-2007, 12:02 PM

.....The tablet to PC software was beta and taken down because it wasn't very good and because they'll be replacing it with something else in the future.
All I know is my camera does not provide video-chat as shown by Nokia promotion video. I call that Bait-and-Switch.

zerojay

11-28-2007, 12:05 PM

All I know is my camera does not provide video-chat as shown by Nokia promotion video. I call that Bait-and-Switch.

If they never offered it at any point and there was no internet call feature, you'd be right.. but they did offer a PC client in the past and there still is an internet call option that works.

heavyt

11-28-2007, 12:09 PM

With OS2008, you don't need one. Gizmo v4.0 on the PC supports video chat, as does the new Gizmo client on OS2008 (which is now available on both N810 and N800).

I put together a video demonstrating this over at Tablet-Guru.com, and please feel free to use your N810 or N800 with OS2008 to give me a video call over Gizmo: grcadden.

http://www.tablet-guru.com/2007/11/gizmo-project-tablet-to-pc-video-calling/

Just read your post after I posted my last comment. If you are right then I feel Nokia has for fill its promise.

zerojay

11-28-2007, 12:10 PM

With OS2008, you don't need one. Gizmo v4.0 on the PC supports video chat, as does the new Gizmo client on OS2008 (which is now available on both N810 and N800).

I put together a video demonstrating this over at Tablet-Guru.com, and please feel free to use your N810 or N800 with OS2008 to give me a video call over Gizmo: grcadden.

http://www.tablet-guru.com/2007/11/gizmo-project-tablet-to-pc-video-calling/

Ricky, in your article, you said that you'd use Gizmo if it supported Jabber. Gizmo actually *is* Jabber. :)

heavyt

11-28-2007, 12:12 PM

If they never offered it at any point and there was no internet call feature, you'd be right.. but they did offer a PC client in the past and there still is an internet call option that works.
Whatever!!!! :rolleyes:

rcadden

11-28-2007, 12:18 PM

Ricky, in your article, you said that you'd use Gizmo if it supported Jabber. Gizmo actually *is* Jabber. :)

Fascinating. So I could hook it up to Jablet somehow and have all my IM, including video chat?

zerojay

11-28-2007, 12:19 PM

I was able to add Ricky (and for those of you that want to add Gizmo users to your Jabber rosters, use gizmousername@chat.gizmoproject.com), however the tablet doesn't allow me to use his Gizmo account for making an internet call from RTCOMM. Oh well. :)

It's possible that the tablet software says "Only users that have Telepathy as their resource should show up as possible people to video call"...

There might yet be a way around this, depending on what Gizmo uses for video calling.

peterjb31

11-28-2007, 12:29 PM

Gizmo itself isn't jabber though it does have its own jabber server. Gizmo is chiefly a sip based app.

zerojay

11-28-2007, 12:57 PM

As far as I know, Gizmo is basically a custom Jabber server with SIP included.

DR.Tek

11-28-2007, 01:17 PM

Well, I am unable to get video to run on my n810 using Gismo. I also have Gismo installed on the P.C. as well. So, video is not yet a reality. I would like to know what I am doing wrong.

Karel Jansens

11-28-2007, 01:23 PM

Surprisingly, I don't have any problems with the concept of the camera in the N800. Its low resolution more or less matches the screen resolution (although an 800x480 CCD would have made more sense), so it's quite suited to take quick snaps to be viewed on screen only (video-blogging jumps to mind, or that picture-and-text database I keep dreaming about). Since Nokia went throught the trouble of making it rotatable, it was obviously meant for more than just video-calling.

Here's the problem, and it's the same with so many other aspects of the Internet Tablets: Nokia puts in a hardware feature... and then seemingly forgets to tell the software developers it's there. Bluetooth had to be hacked by users in the 770, USB host the same. The touchscreen layer of the tablets is pressure sensitive, but only one developer managed to use it, and Nokia's own painting software doesn't do anything with it.

The camera is the same: it just sits there, doing nothing that's even remotely interesting. As someone wrote: About the most interesting thing the camera does, is add an awkward bulge to the N800.

Capt'n Corrupt

11-28-2007, 01:33 PM

This is an interesting problem. With the N800, the physical camera had to be 'opened' in order to 'turn it on' in Gizmo. I wonder if this is the root of the problem for the N810? Since the camera is already 'opened', the gizmo software may not be getting the necessary 'open' event and thus assume that the camera is not accessible.

In any case, it's strange that the Gizmo team would release their new v4 client for the N810, advertise video calling on the site, and not have this feature available. Indeed, I've watched videos of it video-call working from an N800 to a PC using the new v4 client. The fact that it isn't working for the N810 is truly puzzling.

Can anyone confirm that the camera is indeed operational (even if it isn't useful)?

}:^)~
YARR!

Capt'n Corrupt

zerojay

11-28-2007, 01:38 PM

I seem to remember there being a button that must be clicked after a call is established to start video.

rcadden

11-28-2007, 01:46 PM

Correct. Once in a call, you must activate video.

Capt'n Corrupt

11-28-2007, 01:53 PM

I seem to remember there being a button that must be clicked after a call is established to start video.

Very odd indeed. After perusing the Gizmo Project forums, it seems that other N810 owners are experiencing the same problems and have put in (as of now) unanswered requests for help.

I hope that this problem goes away with future versions.

}:^)~
YARR!

Capt'n Corrupt

Karwee

11-28-2007, 02:38 PM

Picture from a n91 (3.1 MP I think): Here (http://bp1.blogger.com/_YaAt2fURNNU/RdD5DQ1GJSI/AAAAAAAAAAw/H6Z9upr4xUo/s1600-h/13022007(001).jpg)
Source (http://jaaksi.blogspot.com/2007/02/high-level-roadmap.html)
If you read his blog entry you'll see that he took that shot with a Nokia N91 and just used the N800 to make the blog entry.
Woops, my bad, I changed what I said now.:o

Well heres a 1.3 megapixel shot from the logitech quickcam 5000 to compare with. Here (http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=594&stc=1&d=1196276576)

And on my N810 it look like this: Here (http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=568&stc=1&d=1195719522)
Source Thread (http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1210)

... :confused: Does Nokia specifically say what type of camera is in the N810 anywhere ?

The camera on the N810 seems more like a 0.3 megapixel, taking pictures at a max resolution of 640x480. With Knips anyways. The N810 came with no built in out of the box way of using the camera.

The spec for the OMAP 2420 processor in both the N800 and N810 claim that it can support at least 3 megapixel.OMAP2420 (http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtbu/wtbuproductcontent.tsp?templateId=6123&navigationId=11990&contentId=4671)

Moonshine

11-28-2007, 02:50 PM

If you read his blog entry you'll see that he took that shot with a Nokia N91 and just used the N800 to make the blog entry.

technut

11-28-2007, 05:14 PM

This is in an N810 forum but there isn't much about the camera that is N810-specific (other than the physical mounting), so I think we N800 users share your interest in the camera functions.

There are two camera-related enhancement requests filed at maemo.org. If you would like to encourage Nokia to work on these enhancements, please register and VOTE for them.

N800 to PC video calls (https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1833#c0) (VOTE (https://bugs.maemo.org/votes.cgi?action=show_user&bug_id=1833#vote_1833))
Add Camera support to Flash plug-in (https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1889#c0) (VOTE (https://bugs.maemo.org/votes.cgi?action=show_user&bug_id=1889#vote_1889))

Thanks.

technut

11-28-2007, 05:23 PM

After seeing the exposure quality, it would be nice if software used a noise filter to reduce the amount of grain on the resultant images.Agreed, and a white-balance function would help to take the yellow/orange out of indoor images. But if either of these substantially effect the framerate then it would be nice to be able to turn them off for maximum fps.

Capt'n Corrupt

11-28-2007, 08:03 PM

Agreed, and a white-balance function would help to take the yellow/orange out of indoor images. But if either of these substantially effect the framerate then it would be nice to be able to turn them off for maximum fps.

Indeed. Perhaps all that is required is a modification to the (assumed) kernel module that drives the camera (is this code even open?). The performance for these simple adjustments shouldn't be too great, and there can be a simple user-space app that controls the filters that are on or off at any given time (off by default). There may even be OMAP DSP instructions that will lend a hand with these computations.

Can anyone with an N810 provide any insight to the camera rendering software implementation? Perhaps this is a post best suited for the developers section of the forum :o...

}:^)~
YARR!

Capt'n Corrupt

Capt'n Corrupt

11-28-2007, 08:04 PM

R-R

11-28-2007, 11:55 PM

With OS2008, you don't need one. Gizmo v4.0 on the PC supports video chat, as does the new Gizmo client on OS2008 (which is now available on both N810 and N800).

I hope we can finally get a working Nokia N8x0 jingle video chat to PC working... Anyone had any luck with this?

rcadden

11-28-2007, 11:58 PM

I hope we can finally get a working Nokia N8x0 jingle video chat to PC working... Anyone had any luck with this?

Um, did you not read the rest of the post you quoted? http://www.tablet-guru.com/2007/11/gizmo-project-tablet-to-pc-video-calling/ I was able to call from my Tablet to PC with video.

R-R

11-29-2007, 03:34 AM

Um, did you not read the rest of the post you quoted? http://www.tablet-guru.com/2007/11/gizmo-project-tablet-to-pc-video-calling/ I was able to call from my Tablet to PC with video.

Oh, missed the fact that gizmo might add jabber support :-)

But still, I'd rather have all this working on FOSS frameworks and not have to deal with gizmo's over complex interface, their accounts, their licenses, etc... i just want plain simple jingle in OS :-)

zerojay

11-29-2007, 09:59 AM

Oh, missed the fact that gizmo might add jabber support :-)

But still, I'd rather have all this working on FOSS frameworks and not have to deal with gizmo's over complex interface, their accounts, their licenses, etc... i just want plain simple jingle in OS :-)

*facepalm*

Gizmo *is* Jabber.

Toontje

11-29-2007, 10:44 AM

If you are an N800 owner, how often do you use the camera?

Does the N800 have a camera? I saw that in the press release and in the Nokia website, but i never found a useful camera in the N800 itself. :mad:

Ton.

akd

11-29-2007, 11:01 AM

At least the crappy camera works. I remember when I bought the VAIO TR1 and after three months of use the still/webcam passed away. No warranty for that. All the TR series has the infamous camera problem. Another great fiasco!! In the N800 case, I can just complain about a 1GB SD killed.

Capt'n Corrupt

11-29-2007, 11:07 AM

Does the N800 have a camera? I saw that in the press release and in the Nokia website, but i never found a useful camera in the N800 itself. :mad:

Ton.

Indeed it does! It's located on the upper left edge of the N800. You simply push in to pop it out, and push back in to hide it. Once popped out, you can rotate it to point towards or away from you.

It's designed as a web camera, not a camera for photography. Some users have complained about the low quality output that the camera produces. However, it seems as though quality aside, it's a capable and functional hardware component for the N800.

Likewise, the N810 has a camera; though it is embedded in the N810 body, and cannot be moved. It appears as though the (low) quality of the N810 camera is very similar to the quality of the N800 camera.

So far (I'm told) very few applications support the camera on the N810.

}:^)~
YARR!

Capt'n Corrupt

Toontje

11-29-2007, 01:23 PM

Indeed it does! It's located on the upper left edge of the N800. You simply push in to pop it out, and push back in to hide it. Once popped out, you can rotate it to point towards or away from you.

Ah, the thing that locked up my n800 because it wants to automagically launch an application that is the ONLY application that works with the camera, and nobody in the world uses that application? That is what you mean?

It's designed as a web camera, not a camera for photography.
Really? So how can i publish my webcam on the internet then? I mean, web cam, web....

Some users have complained about the low quality output that the camera produces. However, it seems as though quality aside, it's a capable and functional hardware component for the N800.
That lacks software support, yes.

So far (I'm told) very few applications support the camera on the N810.

Exactly. That's why i said USEFUL camera. I knew the N800 had one, i moved up from the 770 to the N800 for Skype and video calling. Yes, i too was one of the many that unintentionally and totally ignorant of reality made that connection.

Just dropped my N800 on eBay. :(

Ton.

microfab

11-29-2007, 01:40 PM

I agree with HeavyT. While there is alot to like, I bought this SPECIFICALLY for the video chat to family at home on the PC. I didn't buy a video walkie-talkie. I now have Gizmo running, but the transmitted image from the N800 is terrible. The incoming image is pretty good. Kudos to Gizmo Project. Still not happy with Nokia. But I'm not close minded about it...yet.

Moonshine

11-29-2007, 02:00 PM

Ah, the thing that locked up my n800 because it wants to automagically launch an application that is the ONLY application that works with the camera, and nobody in the world uses that application? That is what you mean?

In OS2008 this choice is yours. If you want it to automatically launch the Internet calling app it will, if not it does nothing.

OS2008 also video support over SIP (h.263 video) which looks much better then Gizmo video IMO. I would also support video over Jabber to a PC whenever someone finally makes a Jabber client that supports jingle-video. I'm betting we'll see Googles Gtalk Jabber client add this in 2008. In that respect Nokia is ahead of curve.

Really? So how can i publish my webcam on the internet then? I mean, web cam, web....

You could use the "motion" application that someone compiled a while back. Has several options including serving up a mjpeg image with a pretty impressive frame rate. I think it would need to be re-compiled for OS2008 though.

Exactly. That's why i said USEFUL camera. I knew the N800 had one, i moved up from the 770 to the N800 for Skype and video calling. Yes, i too was one of the many that unintentionally and totally ignorant of reality made that connection.

Personally I think that is a Skype issue. I would be nice if Skype included video. However making the leap that because the tablet had Skype and a little camera it could do video calls is a bit much. Especially considering Skype only recently released a linux beta of any kind with video support.

But it sounds like eBay has solved this problem :D

Capt'n Corrupt

11-29-2007, 04:29 PM

Exactly. That's why i said USEFUL camera. I knew the N800 had one, i moved up from the 770 to the N800 for Skype and video calling. Yes, i too was one of the many that unintentionally and totally ignorant of reality made that connection.

Haha. I must have been wearing my sarcasm ******ant PJs. I'll try to be less helpful in the future :D.

}:^)~
YARR!

Capt'n Corrupt

Toontje

11-29-2007, 04:44 PM

But it sounds like eBay has solved this problem :D

Almost. Almost. ;)

heavyt

11-29-2007, 05:13 PM

......Personally I think that is a Skype issue. I would be nice if Skype included video. However making the leap that because the tablet had Skype and a little camera it could do video calls is a bit much. Especially considering Skype only recently released a linux beta of any kind with video support.

But it sounds like eBay has solved this problem :D

Am I mistaken, was there not a Nokia's video that came with the N800 showing it being used in a video call? :confused: