I'm off! Have fun with the N8x0!

[Toontje]

Hi all!

So that's it for me. I enjoyed the N800 while it lasted. I found out i really need a keyboard that works, Flash video and audio that works, Skype video that works and no waiting for someone to port applications that are already available on other Linux platforms (i'm too n00b to do that myself and i don't have the time either). I just want something that works.
So i go for the Eee. My N800 will be gone by sunday and my Eee will be ordered.

I learned a lot here and i wish you all the luck with the N series IT's.

Have fun!

Ton.

[Moonshine]

Crap, this thing doesn't work? What have I been doing...

[Tragos]

Adéu and have fun with your Eee.

I may follow you after the warranty of my 770 ends. Tomorrow I'm going to take it for repair for the fourth time in a year. Now there's some pinkish flicker on the display and the colours aren't showing properly.

[promethh]

Crap, this thing doesn't work? What have I been doing...

Damn, no one told me this doesn't work... I was happier when I was blissfully ignorant. :D

I've been reading Internet Tablet Talk from my N810 as I walk the datacenter babysitting servers, blogging direct to Lathe of Dreams (http://www.latheofdreams.com/) using ssh, scp, and web, and managing 156 servers using "ssh -C -X -D3000 user@server" all from this one single Nokia N810.

And *now* you tell me it doesn't work?

Just this week, I dumped DD-WRT on a Linksys WTR54GS "pocket router" solely for N8x0 users. Yesterday, I bought a Buffalo WHR-G54S/125 running DD-WRT solely for Nokia N8x0 users. Next week I'm setting up OpenVPN to allow federal Nokia N8x0 users to connect via the new router.

I have *zero* complaints about the Nokia N810. My 8GB MicroSDHC arrives next week, and between the 2GB internal and 8GB external, almost everything I need will either be on my N810 or accessible from it.

[rickh]

Kids,

All he is saying is it's no longer working for him. He's been around a while, so it's not some off-the-cuff comment.

When I first got my N800 I tried to do everything with it. It wasn't until after I got another device (a PP3) that I realized that was pretty futile - for me. Now I use the N800 for its advertised use - pocketable internet - and I'm quite happy restricting it to that use.

Toonje, if you can swing it, try and keep the the N800 around in addition to your new EeePC. Once you have both devices at your disposal, you might find more use (although more defined) from both.

R.
==

[Moonshine]

Kids,

All he is saying is it's no longer working for him. He's been around a while, so it's not some off-the-cuff comment.

....

Dad,

I could swear he said "I just want something that works."

[earl00]

see you on http://forum.eeeuser.com/

sweet mods already if you're into that kinda thing in your spare time. here are a few links to get started.

http://forum.eeeuser.com/viewtopic.php?id=3982
http://forum.eeeuser.com/viewtopic.php?id=2145

[promethh]

Kids,

All he is saying is it's no longer working for him. He's been around a while, so it's not some off-the-cuff comment.

When I first got my N800 I tried to do everything with it. It wasn't until after I got another device (a PP3) that I realized that was pretty futile - for me. Now I use the N800 for its advertised use - pocketable internet - and I'm quite happy restricting it to that use.

Toonje, if you can swing it, try and keep the the N800 around in addition to your new EeePC. Once you have both devices at your disposal, you might find more use (although more defined) from both.

R.
==

It wasn't meant as flippant as it sounds. The Nokia N8x0 series isn't yet a "consumer class" device, but the potential is no less there. I can't hand off my Nokia N810 to my wife and expect her to love it, but you couldn't pry it from my hands on the WMATA (DC Metro) or the datacenter floor.

Everything toonje describes does work, but takes some adaptation. It's the very same adaption that Blackberry owners undergo, Treo owners, Sidekick users, etc.

N810 Keyboard: yes, it is small and the ergonomics are odd. It lacks the raised ridges of a Treo or bumps of a Blackberry. I'm able to type very quickly now whether its an email to my boss or vi of server configuration, but I miss some sensation that the keys are separate and distinct.

Flash Video and Audio that Works: Hell, my Sony VAIO TX770P running Ubuntu dogs on some tweakers' overblown flash sites. I wish Youtube worked well, but I really don't care that a teenager's MySpace page doesn't.

Skype Video: The latest version of Skype worked well enough. I've been using Skype and Gizmo on my N810 to place calls and video to my wife, boss, and co-workers. I don't use video often, but I certainly use Skype/Gizmo often.

Waiting for Apps: There are alot more apps, packages, and repositories out there than you see at first glance. Maemo Garage has alot more effort going on than you see in the Downloads link. Outside of Maemo Garage, there's even more. As someone fluent Python and C, I've been scripting and developing for my own N810 without problem. There are number of coders on ITT and Maemo I can't thank enough for their efforts.

I respect toonje's longevity, but I'd have to disagree with each of his points. I hope that the Nokia Internet Tablet succeeds, and I'm willing to invest my own time, money, and effort (as well as that of a few co-workers) to that end.

[penguinbait]

An eee, why not just buy a real laptop, I just bought my son a dual core processor, 1GB RAM 160GB HD, dvd/cd burner with a big screen for 600$ US Dollars


If I am going as big as an E, It just seems why not get a real laptop, especially since your screen is the same resolutions as the tablet.


Once you can not put it in your pocket, does it really matter how big your laptop bag is?

Anyway, I am not defending anything, or wishing you would not leave, but an EEE really?

[Moonshine]

...
Once you can not put it in your pocket, does it really matter how big your laptop bag is? ...

We must have been seperated at birth. That is exactly the way I see it.

If I was willing to carry around something EEE sized with me I would demand more screen resolution and less bezel. For that kind of tradeoff in size, there better be 1024x768 waiting at least.

Really I've been baffled for weeks now seeing the EEE compared to pocketable devices. Small compared to a normal laptop, sure. But that would take a trenchcoat.

[penguinbait]

Damn, no one told me this doesn't work... I was happier when I was blissfully ignorant. :D

I've been reading Internet Tablet Talk from my N810 as I walk the datacenter babysitting servers, blogging direct to Lathe of Dreams (http://www.latheofdreams.com/) using ssh, scp, and web, and managing 156 servers using "ssh -C -X -D3000 user@server" all from this one single Nokia N810.

And *now* you tell me it doesn't work?

Just this week, I dumped DD-WRT on a Linksys WTR54GS "pocket router" solely for N8x0 users. Yesterday, I bought a Buffalo WHR-G54S/125 running DD-WRT solely for Nokia N8x0 users. Next week I'm setting up OpenVPN to allow federal Nokia N8x0 users to connect via the new router.

I have *zero* complaints about the Nokia N810. My 8GB MicroSDHC arrives next week, and between the 2GB internal and 8GB external, almost everything I need will either be on my N810 or accessible from it.

It all depends on who you are and what your knowlege level is, and how much you are willing to invest.. For me and you its is the best thing since sliced bread. We can shutdown an entire Data Center with a 770, or N8X0, this power in your pockect is mind blowing. Being able to do that from anywhere, well mostly anywhere you go, without having to run home or worse be tethered to the house because your on-call. This makes this device priceless to many sysadmins I am sure.

[promethh]

It all depends on who you are and what your knowlege level is, and how much you are willing to invest.. For me and you its is the best thing since sliced bread. We can shutdown an entire Data Center with a 770, or N8X0, this power in your pockect is mind blowing. Being able to do that from anywhere, well mostly anywhere you go, without having to run home or worse be tethered to the house because your on-call. This makes this device priceless to many sysadmins I am sure.

Well said, Penguinbait.

I know of several sysadmins for the Federal Judiciary who swear by their Nokia Internet Tablets. We're running N800 and N810 for solely that reason. Having Linux in your pocket with a WiFi connection and BT tether to a data-capable phone is an incredibly powerful thing. In the 90 minutes it takes me to get to work, I've patched 40 servers, checked my email, read the server logs, and debugged a flaky java servlet for a developer.

There are over 30 systems administrators in my group, and I'm friends with another 20. Everyone who has seen my N800 (and now my N810) has wanted one too. Our Division Chief saw me managing a few production servers while we were in a meeting, he asked "it's like an iPhone, but better?! Are you managing our servers from there?"

Yes sir, I am. :D

[johnkzin]

Once you can not put it in your pocket, does it really matter how big your laptop bag is?


I'm 90% with the two of you on this.

As I said in another thread, if I wanted a laptop, I'd get a laptop. Clearly I don't, or I wouldn't have bought a NIT.


Where I would put that 10% of not agreeing is that I could see buying an UMPC instead of a MID (ie. something bigger than a pocket, but not in the shape of a laptop). I had considered the pepperpad for example. But, ultimately, the Nokia line looked to have the best combination of vendor backing, community support, and features. And, plus, I did want something I could put in a protective case and still fit in my jacket pocket.


But, there's no way in which the Eee ever crossed my mind as a contender for my money.

[earl00]

An eee, why not just buy a real laptop, I just bought my son a dual core processor, 1GB RAM 160GB HD, dvd/cd burner with a big screen for 600$ US Dollars


If I am going as big as an E, It just seems why not get a real laptop, especially since your screen is the same resolutions as the tablet.


Once you can not put it in your pocket, does it really matter how big your laptop bag is?

Anyway, I am not defending anything, or wishing you would not leave, but an EEE really?

show me any other laptop the size and weight and battery life of the eee thats not over $399 and I'll buy it. it's like saying why buy an n810 when you can buy a oqo model 2 (and yes you can put any flavor of Linux on it) - get my point.

http://www.oqo.com/

[penguinbait]

show me any other laptop the size and weight of the eee thats not over $399 and I'll buy it. why buy an n810 when you can buy a oqo model 2 - get my point.

http://www.oqo.com/

No, actually I do not? Its also apparent you do not get mine.

I do not own an N810 nor did I tell anyone to buy one?

If I am buying a laptop, I am not buying an EEE, I would buy a powerfull big screen laptop for 600$. If I want something to fit in my pocket, then I will consider things that go in my pocket.

Is that confusing? I would HAPPILY pay 200$ more for dual core 1GB dvd burner, compared to EEE. If EEE was like 200$ I would buy three of them for my younger kids, but otherwise its useless to me.

[rickh]

No, actually I do not? Its also apparent you do not get mine.

I do not own an N810 nor did I tell anyone to buy one?

If I am buying a laptop, I am not buying an EEE, I would buy a powerfull big screen laptop for 600$. If I want something to fit in my pocket, then I will consider things that go in my pocket.

Is that confusing? I would HAPPILY pay 200$ more for dual core 1GB dvd burner, compared to EEE. If EEE was like 200$ I would buy three of them for my younger kids, but otherwise its useless to me.
If only it were so black and white as to choose between a laptop or an IT. I'm one of those people that looked for a full linux distro in a 2 pound factor - and cheaper than one of the $1000 UMPCs.

I ended up not getting a EeePC, rather a PepperPad. The deciding factor wasn't size. It was 1) weight and 2) what I could do with it - ie. have a full document processing solution that at the moment includes OO.o and a translation memory suite written in Java. Had the PP not been available I would have looked at an EeePC, because my needs could also have been met by it. Weight is EXTREMELY important to as I spend a lot of time in security lines at airports, regardless of laptop bag size.

I maintain that I use my N800 for browsing while out and about, but it's near impossible to do my work on it. Not to say that a sysadmin can't do his/her job on it, but we're not all sysadmins.

R.
==

[johni58]

Well, the main reason I got the N800 was that the TSA treats your Notebook and Lap Tops like hell. I wanted something I can travel with - check email - answer if I need to and browse from the Hotel WIFI. I see people in the line all the time at the airports - they are required to remove their Note Books and plop them into plastic bins. If it comes out the other side your lucky. I can keep the N800 in my Backpac and place the whole thing in the bin without damage. You have to remember what you are getting small appliances for in the first place. If I could travel with my new Dell Vista system with the 19" LCD then I would BUT - it it not practical. The 800 is worth it's weight in gold. //ji

[F1shb0ne]

Did I hear that the Eee doesn't have bluetooth? If so, that's a deal-breaker for mobility. That leaves you limited to hot spots for connectivity and otherwise off-line.

[Malfaiteur]

Did I hear that the Eee doesn't have bluetooth? If so, that's a deal-breaker for mobility. That leaves you limited to hot spots for connectivity and otherwise off-line.

Not to toot the EEE's horn; I don't own one and don't see it likely to happen in the future unless I go on some weird buying tangent. However, There are USB BT modules that are damn small. Like, stick out 1/4" or less (based on pictures I've seen). Yes it uses up a usb port etc etc. But there are 3 on the EEE, how many things are you going to plug up to that thing?

That said the EEE is an awkward size and feature set...

~!M

[Beni]

Did I hear that the Eee doesn't have bluetooth? If so, that's a deal-breaker for mobility. That leaves you limited to hot spots for connectivity and otherwise off-line.
5$ USB Dongle says hi

[johnkzin]

Did I hear that the Eee doesn't have bluetooth? If so, that's a deal-breaker for mobility. That leaves you limited to hot spots for connectivity and otherwise off-line.

In addition to the other replies, there are non-BT options as well (USB tethering to a cell phone, USB GSM dongles, USB EVDO dongles, etc.).

(and, as has already been stated, I'm not an Eee fan, just being fair)

[earl00]

In addition to the other replies, there are non-BT options as well (USB tethering to a cell phone, USB GSM dongles, USB EVDO dongles, etc.).

(and, as has already been stated, I'm not an Eee fan, just being fair)

ontop of that:


In January 2008 you'll be able to buy HSDPA for Eee.
http://jkkmobile.blogspot.com/2007/10/asus-prepping-accessory-line-for-eee-pc.html
http://www.i4u.com/article13308.html

[TA-t3]

Well, if it has a >500mAh USB port you can buy a USB HSDPA dongle right now instead, of course. I've got one, for my laptop.

[promethh]

So this morning, on my 90-minute commute by Metro from Sterling, VA, to Washington, DC, I decided to "ssh -C -X -D3000 foremank@..." to my bastion host for the office. I immediately ran "screen", because that's what I do, and it's habit...

I checked my email, checked the server logs to make sure the nightly backups ran without a hitch, installed a couple packages on an Apache/Tomcat servers for a co-worker, and then started working on my report scripts, when...

OH, *****... I forgot about the Ballston-Marymount tunnel. 2 minutes in, and my AT&T Internet connection on the N810 dropped.

http://www.latheofdreams.com/N810/NokiaN810-Aslan-Persistence.jpg

I got to work, fully expecting my scripts and hard efforts to be gone. I log in, and guess what I found? Everything ran and my scripts were still there!

...

You know that -X works just fine with ssh on the N8x0, don't you? That magic parameter allows you to run Xwindows apps on your N8x0 just as you would a larger workstation. I typically pull up nedit, xchat, or various little apps from mine.

WELL, "screen" works with them too. :D No, I didn't know that either. I told a co-worker about my fear of lost scripts this morning, and that screen had saved my arse, and he told me he's been using screen and X on his N800. His connection drops, he reconnects, and his Xwindows are still there?!

http://www.latheofdreams.com/N810/screenshot20071206.00.jpg.png

I'm showing all this to my Division Chief in the next manager's meeting. We're running a handful of N800 and N810 now, but I think every sysadmin here will want one after this!

I love my N810.

[TA-t3]

That's the thing with screen: It's made for starting stuff, disconnect, re-attach later. It's an incredibly useful application.

[BOFH]

We must have been seperated at birth. That is exactly the way I see it.

If I was willing to carry around something EEE sized with me I would demand more screen resolution and less bezel. For that kind of tradeoff in size, there better be 1024x768 waiting at least.

Really I've been baffled for weeks now seeing the EEE compared to pocketable devices. Small compared to a normal laptop, sure. But that would take a trenchcoat.

I would not even try and get a EEE into a trenchcoat pocket and I carry a lot of krieg in my leather trenchcoat on a normal basic.

[ch8xy]

I don't mind buying an EEE as a mobile office, especially for traveling. I do multilingual stuff, and N8xx is not quite there yet for that kind of work.

[luca]

You know that -X works just fine with ssh on the N8x0, don't you? That magic parameter allows you to run Xwindows apps on your N8x0 just as you would a larger workstation. I typically pull up nedit, xchat, or various little apps from mine.

Last time I tried it, I couldn't get past thunderbird password prompt. How do you enter text on a remote, non hildonized, app? (with an n800 and no hardware keyboard).

[akd]

#24 Today, 10:18 AM
promethh
Member Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 71
Thanks: 10
Thanked 5 Times in 3 Posts


Why I love my N810?!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So this morning, on my 90-minute commute by Metro from Sterling, VA, to Washington, DC, I decided to "ssh -C -X -D3000 foremank@..." to my bastion host for the office. I immediately ran "screen", because that's what I do, and it's habit...

I checked my email, checked the server logs to make sure the nightly backups ran without a hitch, installed a couple packages on an Apache/Tomcat servers for a co-worker, and then started working on my report scripts, when...

Damn my accounting job....I am unable to see a single excel attachment from my job emails....no luck for my, no productivity on the go so far

[Moonshine]

Damn my accounting job....I am unable to see a single excel attachment from my job emails....no luck for my, no productivity on the go so far

No luck with Gnumeric?

[akd]

Nope...nothing :(

[Moonshine]

Nope...nothing :(

Hmm.. that's odd, I've used it with quite a few and my partner uses it all the time. These are standard .xls files, not the new Office 2007 .xlsx files?

[Moonshine]

Last time I tried it, I couldn't get past thunderbird password prompt. How do you enter text on a remote, non hildonized, app? (with an n800 and no hardware keyboard).

He has an N810 now, which is part of the magic :D

[akd]

Hmm.. that's odd, I've used it with quite a few and my partner uses it all the time. These are standard .xls files, not the new Office 2007 .xlsx files?

Standard .xls files but heavy ones, with macros and so, the only part I can see with gnumeric is partial text cells and no more...

[dblank]

Last time I tried it, I couldn't get past thunderbird password prompt. How do you enter text on a remote, non hildonized, app? (with an n800 and no hardware keyboard).

xkbd, xvkbd, matchbox keyboard, etc.

I've been using matchbox keyboard, need to figure out a better way to hide/show the keyboard though.

[aflegg]

I bought an Eee last weekend (wanted a new gadget to take away with me).

Introduction and comment facility at:

http://www.maemopeople.org/index.php/jaffa/2007/12/07/asus_eee_701_pc_psion_netbook_nokia_n810

It's a very cool little device, and for ~£200 a bargain for a tiny, little, full-featured laptop. I imagine my N810 (when it ever arrives) will be used much more. Being in the middle of nowhere this week, I really missed the out-of-the-box Bluetooth of a NIT as I didn't have time to get a small Bluetooth USB dongle and set up all the command line scripts etc. before leaving.

For all the talk of the NIT not being a consumer device, it's level of integration and polish when setting up Bluetooth DUN connections is unsurpassed (even if my phone was set up wrongly by Vodafone and I needed to change the CID in Connection Manager).

[fpp]

That's very true. When I bought my 770 I also bought my first cell phone. I had never used Bluetooth before, nor DUN obviously. It worked for me at first try and I never thought twice about it, until a while ago when l wanted to use the same phone for DUN with a notebook running XP. l was astonished at the amount of work and downright black magic that required !

[iontruo2]

You all raise some great points.
I certainly have been immensely frustrated with the N800 at times but as I reflect on the thread here a little, I am brought back to the other devices I have used and see with clarity much the same scenario. While I am a little more 'user' savvy on the Palm OS, I had many frustrations with the Treo650 and at times more strangely the Palm TX with just plain bizarre behaviour or instability. I also looked at many other possible mobile options. Windows Mobile is just a big profit mongering fest for common apps that are hardly 'new'. I got close to purchasing a "Tablet Kiosk" product. A very nice and powerful unit but again XP.

So with the N800's I have stressed a bit, with Skype2008 working on one unit and oddly installed but non-launching on the other(fixed now), but my "attitude of gratitude" is growing every day here!

Really, when this baby is working it is working great. What about the part, everything is FREE !?!?!?
Aren't all these people, donating their time and complex efforts for nothing?
SO as much as I could really gripe and flame with these growing pains as a Palm/Apple crossover Linux newbie, I really have to step back and say KUDOs! to the development teams who are doing some truly funky stuff here. Really.
That's community. And these volunteers of sorts are really giving it momentum and professional look.
I now find myself 'bragging' (a little) to my friends who are still pondering their choices and waiting and waiting for a locked up iPhone or something crackberry.ish in Canada.

EEEE? sounds like a replay of the flavours of the ol e-mate/apple. yawn-againnnn. ;)

[mbrinkhues]

For some the tablets work, for some they don't. I am among the latter. I do know my way around Unix but I am not a SysOp nor do I intend to become one. I wanted/needed a PIM/PDA system with some Internet-Abilities, text entry/storage abitities and PDF viewer capabilities. The "programmabel" was a nice add-on, the "Runs I-Want-to-be Unix" OS was acceptabel.

Sadly the 770 failed in most aspects for me and while text entry might be solved with the 810(1) if the keyboard is useabel but other aspects do not work out:

+ I have to carry a seperat phone
+ Since my company uses Exchange (and will do so until doomsday) I can't easily sync and back-sync data to the Nokia
+ Complex PDF files render rather slowly on the N770
+ The basic browser is lousy. The add-on ones are so-so
+ The Office package (AbiWord) was so-so and often unstabel
+ Software Installation was a PITA
+ Software Development was restricted to C and Phyton, no JAVA

The problems resulted in the necessity to carry a phone, the tablet and a PDA and finding space for all in a business suit.

Well, the 770 is electronic trash by now, I have a MDA that can

+ Phone
+ Sync with Outlook
+ Show PDF-files if necessary
+ Can do JAVA
+ Can do .NET

Much handier than the Tablets.





(1) Using a BT-Keyboard was not the solution. I don't wear cargo pants so carrying one means carrying a attache case. And if I carry that, I might just as well bring a EEE or similar subnotebooks

[zeez]

I'm surprised you had to get an n770 to figure that out. I mean with a little bit of reading you could have figured out that the n770 is not the right device for you up front...
By the way: While i did agree on that "carry an extra phone issue" when i first got my n800, i know disagree: It is great that when i go out at night i can just take my small phone with me and carrying both on a work day doesn't matter cause i have a briefcase anyway...


PS: Java & .net sucks :D

[rickh]

PS: Java & .net sucks :D
Can't really speak for .net, as I don't use it, but I disagree with the Java sucks comment. There are some REALLY useful apps out there written in Java.

R.
==

[zeez]

Useful apps don't make it a good language...

[mbrinkhues]

Actually the company did give me one, they didn't ask :)

And JAVA (or .NET) is what we program here. For us it's C(++) and Phyton that "suck" guess it's to each his own.

One still hopes the N900 WILL finally be abel to do what a Windows Mobile 5 (or 6) unit can do for a non-Admin this days. In that case I would even accept "Wannabe Unix"(1) based on the "whatever OS does the job" concept.


(1) Unlike many here I don't care much about Linux or GNU. Add in that I keep getting special versions of MS-Software that don't crash every few minutes and I am quite happy with WiMo 5.

[zeez]

One must wonder about a company that gives out devices that don't fit their infrastructure....

[johnkzin]

For some the tablets work, for some they don't. I am among the latter. I do know my way around Unix but I am not a SysOp nor do I intend to become one. I wanted/needed a PIM/PDA system with some Internet-Abilities, text entry/storage abitities and PDF viewer capabilities. The "programmabel" was a nice add-on, the "Runs I-Want-to-be Unix" OS was acceptabel.

My wife isn't a sysop/sysadmin. She's not a unix person (she was a unix _user_ back in the day, but that was 10-20 years ago; these days she never opens the "Terminal" app on her mac).

Yet, she loves her N800. She doesn't have Xterm or anything like that installed on it. Her biggest use for it: pidgin and web browsing, some note taking (lists and stuff). She'll stay connected for IMs, so she doesn't have to carry a laptop nor be tied to her desk ... she'll check things on the web from wherever she is, etc.

For her, the main drawbacks are: she's limited by WIFI (she doesn't have a tethering phone), and she also wants a PIM that she can sync with .mac/iCal.


But, my point is, anyone who thinks that the fact that this is a linux device means in turn that you have to be a unix/linux/sysop/sysadmin to fully appreciate it ... isn't completely in touch with reality.

[mbrinkhues]

One must wonder about a company that gives out devices that don't fit their infrastructure....

New words for you: "Experiment" and "Tryout". Add "Looking for possibilities" Got a nice MDA II at the same time since that was a "Known Good" System that I got a lot of use out of (Now replaced the the follow-up with build in GPS etc)

Nokia Tablets had some interesting possibilities back than but failed to realise any from our PoV. Today it is "one among many" and big PDA systems like the Advantage or Shift from HTC look a lot better for many jobs including cross-plattform programming (JAVA)

[mbrinkhues]

My wife isn't a sysop/sysadmin. She's not a unix person (she was a unix _user_ back in the day, but that was 10-20 years ago; these days she never opens the "Terminal" app on her mac).

Yet, she loves her N800. She doesn't have Xterm or anything like that installed on it. Her biggest use for it: pidgin and web browsing, some note taking (lists and stuff). She'll stay connected for IMs, so she doesn't have to carry a laptop nor be tied to her desk ... she'll check things on the web from wherever she is, etc.

For her, the main drawbacks are: she's limited by WIFI (she doesn't have a tethering phone), and she also wants a PIM that she can sync with .mac/iCal.


But, my point is, anyone who thinks that the fact that this is a linux device means in turn that you have to be a unix/linux/sysop/sysadmin to fully appreciate it ... isn't completely in touch with reality.

Well, one can say the same about many a Linux user... But insults aside, most "fans" here go to length showing that they can run XTerms and shells and controll other systems. That is Admin work, more exactly UNIX Admin work.

And maybe whereever you are has better WiFi than I have here in Germany. Fact is I'd be better of with GRPS or UMTS in most cities than with WiFi. Most of our customers don't use WiFi either since they consider it a security risk.

Fact is the stuff I and most of my co-workers need is either not there or not very good.

[patleeman]

On the newbie non linux/unix user base (which is probably over 50% of the IT owners ;P), i find it extremely nice to be able to sit around wherever i am, get on the internet and check out the sites i enjoy, or talk on aim via pidgin, and do little pda stuff like todo lists and calenders etc.

I have no use for terminals, scripts etc. Hell i don't even know how to use em haha! But for me the IT is perfect.

I was looking into the eee when i first started shopping, i disliked the flip open design and for my uses a mini laptop really wasn't as portable as i had wanted. I looked into UMPCs which gave super functionality, but since i'm just starting the working world... i don't have a grand to throw at one, then i found the N800 which had what i needed, it was open source and linux (which i am interested in learning more about) and most importantly it could play the role of portable media player, internet browser, instant messenger, AND then i could even play around with all these useful little apps that i normally wouldn't touch.

I can understand why somebody would want an eeepc, i came really close to buying one, but i guess in the end to each their own. We all take what we want out of our devices, the most important thing is keeping them open so we can do with them what we want! :D For that (and the community of devs and helpful people) i am grateful!

Hey, at least the OP isn't going to an ipod touch from the n800, then you guys have a right to shoot him! :D

[Texrat]

Nokia Tablets had some interesting possibilities back than but failed to realise any from our PoV.

"Any"???

And who is this "our"?

:p

EDIT: okay, lest the Mr Pedantic posts begin again, I realize you must be referring to your work environment.

And not to be an ***, but given the N800's well-understood wide-open potential, if an IT organization grasped that, wouldn't it be in their best interest to start internal custom development for it?

[thomasdawes]

I think the N770, N800, N810 are nice pieces of hardware. I never really looked towards Nokia for software, but that being said, they make valiant effort at giving us something to play with. I know that for some these efforts aren't good enough and therefore you look for other more polished software and hardware to use. Really, it is no reason to shun people that actually enjoy and love their device.

I agree with the points that Mr. Patleeman listed for the usefulness of this device.

For 200 to 250 dollars for the N800 is quite a nice bargain considering other alternatives costs somewhat more. I found out that I get bored of hardware that doesn't allow me to add anything. Playing with the same programs and utilities over and over again makes me lose interest no matter how shiny a gadget is.

Development for IIT devices sometimes seems slow and no progress is made, but a lot of the developers for the ITT's have jobs and are kind enough to spend their time on this device. I applaud their efforts.

[Noneus]

In my eyes many people miss the point in the EEE vs N8*0 "war". The EEE is a really small very cheap laptop. The N8*0 is a pocketable addition to your mobilephone. The EEE always needs some sort of bag. The one thing really missing on the N8*0 is a nice PIM. That's it.

[Zuber]

Have to agree.

Just give me a good PIM with Outlook sync. and auto dial on the phone through bluetooth etc. and I'm happy.

Zuber

[zakeen]

I have a sony TZ, which Im guessing is the same size as an Eee, but Im still getting a n810 because it is pocketable. No other reason really. While I have one of the smallest laptops I dont always have it with me because, its still a laptop that you cant aways take with you. An Eee and n810 is two totally different things.

[zeusenergy]

show me any other laptop the size and weight and battery life of the eee thats not over $399 and I'll buy it. it's like saying why buy an n810 when you can buy a oqo model 2 (and yes you can put any flavor of Linux on it) - get my point.

http://www.oqo.com/
In that case, I offer my previous laptop: a Fujitsu P1120. You can get them really cheap now (used) and the specs are similar to the EEE but you get the full 8.9" of screen real estate and its a touchscreen to boot. They are built like tanks and will outlast any EEE "toy." The size is almost identical and so is the speed, or lack of it :0)
Plus it has a PCMCIA card slot, let's see the EEEs... oh wait, it doesn't have one :0(
If you haven't used an EEE sized PC yet, you will be surprised at ow BIG it really is. Sure, it's smaller by far than the boat-anchor 17" widescreen laptops americans gobble up. But it's really not everyday-portable at all, unless you carry a big purse.:eek:

[zeusenergy]

I have a sony TZ, which Im guessing is the same size as an Eee, but Im still getting a n810 because it is pocketable. No other reason really. While I have one of the smallest laptops I dont always have it with me because, its still a laptop that you cant aways take with you. An Eee and n810 is two totally different things.

The EEE is smaller than a TZ. But you are right, niether one can fit in a pocket!

[Karel Jansens]

Plus it has a PCMCIA card slot, let's see the EEEs... oh wait, it doesn't have one :0(

The Eee has a PCI-Express slot. Unless that rumour they removed the free internal slot from later production batches is true -- I never checked.

[johnkzin]

In my eyes many people miss the point in the EEE vs N8*0 "war". The EEE is a really small very cheap laptop. The N8*0 is a pocketable addition to your mobilephone. The EEE always needs some sort of bag. The one thing really missing on the N8*0 is a nice PIM. That's it.


I've mentioned before that they're simply different classes of machine. But there's one reason why that still leaves the EEE "out in the cold" for me. If I want a laptop, then for less than the price of an EEE, I can get an ubuntu compatible wallmart special. And if I want a laptop, the size of that wallmart special is just fine.

So, why would I get an EEE?

[greatgazoo]

In my eyes many people miss the point in the EEE vs N8*0 "war". The EEE is a really small very cheap laptop. The N8*0 is a pocketable addition to your mobilephone.

Methinks this may be the most crystal clear explanation of what the N series tablets are, and, I'm suprised Nokia has such a hard time getting this message across.

If people realized that they could choose just about any phone they wanted feature wise and still have all the capabilities of a smartphone (and then some) it would certainly make the purchase easier to justify.

[earl00]

In that case, I offer my previous laptop: a Fujitsu P1120. You can get them really cheap now (used) and the specs are similar to the EEE but you get the full 8.9" of screen real estate and its a touchscreen to boot. They are built like tanks and will outlast any EEE "toy." The size is almost identical and so is the speed, or lack of it :0)
Plus it has a PCMCIA card slot, let's see the EEEs... oh wait, it doesn't have one :0(
If you haven't used an EEE sized PC yet, you will be surprised at ow BIG it really is. Sure, it's smaller by far than the boat-anchor 17" widescreen laptops americans gobble up. But it's really not everyday-portable at all, unless you carry a big purse.:eek:

nice try, i got excited for a second. but that thing is bad in many ways - ugly, thick, onboard memory, mini vga port, that ac looks the size of my old 486dx charger. no thanks. my 8GB eee comes with mini PCie slot and the 8GB ssd is swappable.

[Texrat]

Methinks this may be the most crystal clear explanation of what the N series tablets are, and, I'm suprised Nokia has such a hard time getting this message across.

If people realized that they could choose just about any phone they wanted feature wise and still have all the capabilities of a smartphone (and then some) it would certainly make the purchase easier to justify.

Good point. I have tried to convey to certain people in Nokia that more and more people are looking at the N800 as their "smartphone" device and the phone as its bluetooth modem. Yes, that oversimplifies the situation, but I think this reversal of roles is what the user base is determining. So, as the other post addressed, add a PIM and an N800 + simple bt phone combo is killer.

[NSchively]

Good point. I have tried to convey to certain people in Nokia that more and more people are looking at the N800 as their "smartphone" device and the phone as its bluetooth modem. Yes, that oversimplifies the situation, but I think this reversal of roles is what the user base is determining. So, as the other post addressed, add a PIM and an N800 + simple bt phone combo is killer.

That's kind of what I was aiming at, Texrat. Looked at a Blackberry, but didn't like the form factor, and was tired of squinting at WAP pages. So I got a normal thin phone and the N800. Problem is, I don't want to pay Verizon the $60 a month for a data plan, so I'm waiting/hoping they come out with a different price structure that I can afford, and then use the phone as a BT modem so I can surf whenever/wherever.

[Texrat]

It would be nice IMO if land service providers could also offer an extension to solely address the wireless data plan element. But-- in my case that's not practical, because Verizon provides my land service under contract while AT&T provides my cell phone service, also under contract. A shame we can't piecemeal what we want in the US.

[DingerX]

Hey, the Eee looks cool, and quite handy. x86 architecture means you can run a ton of programs directly. It's cheap, and just the solution needed for a second PC.

Microsoft and Asus' announcement that Microsoft would be supplying a windows-based OS for the Eee shows that Microsoft is paying attention, and is quite worried about the success of the Eee. It also shows that they don't get it. A big draw for these devices is the quantity of free software available. Heck, given the BSA's recent shenanigans, it's becoming a big draw for businesses too. In an environment where software companies interpret "copyright infringement" such that some clown's inaction (such as failing to uninstall software on that obsolete hulk gathering dust in the closet) can result in serious financial penalties, and where those same software companies share those penalties with former employees who were most likely the ones responsible for the "infringement" to begin with, proprietary software, especially the sort with complicated licensing, carries an intrinsic liability.
In other words, the hardware's cheap, but the total cost of ownership is even cheaper, and getting more so. The Eee class of computers (and bigger versions) can be used for all those tasks that don't require the unique things that Mac and Windows platforms still offer, and they can provide better performance with much less hardware. And those cool-Windows and Mac-only programs (games, GIMP is not Photoshop, etc.) generally do better on desktops anyway.

But the Eee is still a laptop. It runs an x86 processor, and that means that when it's on, it's using plenty of power. Its battery life is measured in hours on vs. off, and not hours of use. Its design means that, when someone is using an Eee, the user's focus of attention is the computer.

The ITs are entirely different. VoIP (and video calls) are not tethered to a location. I can, and do, walk about the house while on the phone -- and on a device that now costs only slightly more than a dedicated WiFi phone (and on a device that finally works well as a Skype Phone). When I'm working on something, it's not in front of me; it's by my side. If we need a fact checked, I can do it, and pass the results, rather than force someone to stare down my screen. Sharing video works the same way: go to youtube, or whatever, and hand it to someone. The pocketable bit means that I can pull it out in any number of improbable locations.

The implementation leaves something to be desired. While Nokia has grasped that F/OSS projects work best when the various professional, semi-professional and volunteer efforts have a directed and fully funded framework in which to operate, someone needs to get the maemo that volunteers don't maintain repositories over the holidays, a period that's kinda important in the consumer electronics world.

So, no, I don't administer unix boxes with it.

[jussik]

Good point. I have tried to convey to certain people in Nokia that more and more people are looking at the N800 as their "smartphone" device and the phone as its bluetooth modem. Yes, that oversimplifies the situation, but I think this reversal of roles is what the user base is determining. So, as the other post addressed, add a PIM and an N800 + simple bt phone combo is killer.

spot on, Texrat! Not a simplification at all. I've been saying pretty much the same since the 770 came out. Back then Nokia only had BT+3G in those ridiculously overpriced smart phones, so it's pretty safe to say that this use case was not predicted (a pretty big fault, considering the depth of the product line otherwise). The 770 forced me to get my first non-Nokia phone.

Give me a small, spartan phone with good data capabilities and a long-lasting battery, and I'll be a happy camper.

[mbrinkhues]

"Any"???

And who is this "our"?

:p

EDIT: okay, lest the Mr Pedantic posts begin again, I realize you must be referring to your work environment.

And not to be an ***, but given the N800's well-understood wide-open potential, if an IT organization grasped that, wouldn't it be in their best interest to start internal custom development for it?

Limited in-house resources and a concentration on the .NET/PHP/JAVA side of programming in our company means that a platform that supports neither of those gets left behind when/if there are other platforms that DO cater to those needs. And since there are WiMo Alternatives to the Tablet (The two big HTC systems i.e) it's easier to concentrate on those.

No need for .NET/MONO (also throwing together some quick VB stuff might be nice) but at least a decend and official JAVA would have been nice, even more so given the CPU's capabilities in that area.

Given the lack of "necessary" capabilities (YMMV, here Sync with Exchange is "necessary") makes the device even less interesting in general use, same for the "needs extra phone" element. Germany might be different but getting twin cards (two cards, one number) is easy and UMTS or GRPS far more common than open WLAN's. And using a TelCo Hotspot is as costly as a good data plan from the providers if not more so. Without a "phone" ability it's somewhat hard to sell online solutions for the beast even more if your average end user isn't an IT-professional but rather "Joe Average Enduser"

[Texrat]

Understood. Theoretically, though, a company that saw the potential in the tablets could throw the right resources at in-house enterprise development for it.

And within the organization, phones aren't necessary. For instance, we are (finally) getting to where the tablets can be used as wifi voip "land" lines in house.

[Hedgecore]

Uh oh. Has Nokia created a polymorphic proverbial blob of clay? Yes. Yes they have. While I think cell phone tethering is cool, as is playing an ancillary role to a cell phone, I don't have one. Did I miss the point? Absolutely not. My tablet gets hella offline usage during my commute and when I'm out and about hits random WiFi hotspots to supplement my coffee with the internet related headaches I've gotten addicted to (like this forum). :)

Sorry to interject on this, but I just wanted to make the point that while people feel strongly about their use case scenarios and can't understand this or that, there are other types of users out there and our corporate overlords had to take everything into account.

You can't please all the people all of the time. :)

[Texrat]

I'm not pleased with your opinion.

[Zuber]

For Nokia to come out with the device and include a sim slot, they would first have to include a proper contacts application :)

Preferabley one that also syncs with Outlook, since that is what all other Nokia 'phones' do. Especially the N series ones.

Zuber

[james.bottomtooth]

on the topic of sizes and dimensions. (first page or so :))

i find tiny laptops appealing. size of a laptop bag is part of a problem, but general handling and weight is also issue.

couple of years ago i saw a Dell Laptop that had about 12 inches of screen or so, maybe less, did not have a CD/DVD drive and looked very thin and portable. seemed ideal for on the go business applications. i don't think it was marketed for home user, more for corporations. does anyone know which model i'm talking about? i sort of still want one, maybe i can get one somewhere on the cheap.

[Mara]

on the topic of sizes and dimensions. (first page or so :))

i find tiny laptops appealing. size of a laptop bag is part of a problem, but general handling and weight is also issue.

couple of years ago i saw a Dell Laptop that had about 12 inches of screen or so, maybe less, did not have a CD/DVD drive and looked very thin and portable. seemed ideal for on the go business applications. i don't think it was marketed for home user, more for corporations. does anyone know which model i'm talking about? i sort of still want one, maybe i can get one somewhere on the cheap.

It was probably Dell Latitude X1 (http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=2366).

[Zebee]

Well said, Penguinbait.

I know of several sysadmins for the Federal Judiciary who swear by their Nokia Internet Tablets. We're running N800 and N810 for solely that reason. Having Linux in your pocket with a WiFi connection and BT tether to a data-capable phone is an incredibly powerful thing. In the 90 minutes it takes me to get to work, I've patched 40 servers, checked my email, read the server logs, and debugged a flaky java servlet for a developer.


If only!

Alas freely available wifi is as rare here in Australia as cheap phone data plans.

And while my employer has limited wireless, they use a Cisco setup that requires a windows program to run, so I can't use it. (As so far, no Linux port from Cisco and no hack from anyone else.) They also use exchange for mail and turn off IMAP, so while I might boot to 2008 and use wired networking, I can't do much with it!

I dislike 2008 for many reasons mostly to do with UI - the thumbscrolling in FBreader, the small usable real-estate in xterminal, the Fisher-Price icons, the huge thumb friendly but eyeball hostile menus, those are the main ones.

If I worked somewhere that wasn't so goddamn Windowscentric (and me a Unix admin, I gnash many a tooth) I would be using the N800 a lot at work. As it is, I might work a bit more on easy dual boot to 2008 so I can use a wired connection to talk via crossover to reluctant servers but that's about it.

Wired networking for 2007, I would be happy!

(better looks for 2008 I'd be even happier....)


Zebee

[myk]

Alas freely available wifi is as rare here in Australia as cheap phone data plans.
Not any more, at least in the major cities.
There are a few options around A$30/month now.
I'm on A$15/month for 1GB with '3', though voice rates are a bit high, and data roaming outside the 3G areas is $1.65/MB (The phone is set not to allow this!).

[Betty Woo]

Canadians are getting hosed by hosers (eh). Just a short look at google pops up newspaper articles showing how high cellphone rates affect business around here and if it affects business, it's not too hard to see how it affects the spending habits of individuals; ( http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/tech/cellphones/economy.html) and an associated comparison of Rogers' Canadian plan with AT&T's US plan (http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/2087/125/)

I don't know if I'd qualify as an 'average' N800 user in Canada (the fact I'm female alone probably drops me out of that segment), but I never did and highly doubt I will ever use the N800 with a cellphone.

So the cellphone+N8xx = SmartPhone line of reasoning is dead to me, personally.

After owning PlayThing now for three weeks, I can see its strengths and weaknesses from a totally non-geeky (in the best way) perspective.

Pros:

1. It works well (once you get the hang of it).

2. The programs are free and do the basics.

3. The public forum support is friendly (here, at least).

4. It's cheap for on-the-go internet cruising and great for internet radio.

5. It's got that neato video camera (that I don't use) and a camera (that is fun to play with) and I can record (good for using in court, if I ever feel the need :rolleyes: ).


Cons:

1. I. Can't. Read. The. Fonts. The screen's just too damned small for comfortable reading and increasing the fonts just means I'm scrolling back and forth a lot.

2. Keyboard issues. The Ultra-Slim bluetooth one I got is fine. But it does mean an extra bag to carry around. Pecking at the onscreen keyboard is slow and I tried the N810 keyboard and found that to be too cramped.

3. PIM issues. There's nothing out there (yet?) that'll allow me to easily sync with my mac's Address Book. My mac. Not a windows or linux set-up. A mac - without running bootcamp. I want to sync directly with my Address Book (or at least find something that will accept an exported multiple-card file instead of individual cards and sync *all* the info, not just one name, the first phone number detected and an email address).

You know, in another year or so, I'm seriously going to check out the EEE PC and see what's improved on it and compare and contrast it with the N800.

In the end, I realize that if I really *am* looking for on-the-go travel internet access, the N800 doesn't really fit my needs totally - at least while I'm in Canada and while I'm dealing with eyesight strain.

If the EEE PC keeps down in the $300 level and has most of the qualities of the N800, has an integrated keyboard that doesn't make my fingers squashed, has a screen large enough for me to read without straining or excessive scrolling and no big ol' warning signs, I would consider getting it. In a year - I figure a year's worth of use is worth the price of the N800.

The EEE PC is appealing to me 'cause it's small and light enough not to take up too much room in a bag, it seems to do the basic stuff I'd want and what the N800 does (i.e. everything everyone else is doing in coffee shops with their laptops - cruising the 'net, writing off emails and maybe writing more substantial), ... .

Of course, *I* have a bag (a leather courrier bag but a bag, none the less). Which, when you look at the pretty colours the EEE PC comes in, makes it pretty obvious that the company is aiming for a lot of women like me.

The N800 certainly has a place in my heart now. In the future, I see it spending most of its time as an alarm/internet radio/bedside internet tablet. Which is a good vision since this means it'll be used for years and I will always think of it as money well-spent.

But I'm not slavish enough to a brand (or I would have just marched into an Apple store and bought an iTouch without thinking) and the N800 will have competition with the EEE PC - next year.

[Texrat]

Maybe you need the wimax tablet, Betty?

[Zebee]

Something I don't understand.... Why sync? THe tablet's small enough to have with you all the time, so make that your primary source of information.

Sure, if you have a work calendar that has enough on it (and what's there you need away from your desk) then I can see it, but for most people it would seem to make sense to use the tablet as their diary rather than their desktop.

Zebee

[Texrat]

Some of us have to sync, based on our work needs. I'd like to make the tablet my primary source, but it's not even designed to work that way as of now. Nokia still purposes it as a companion device (ie, secondary) and that's all too apparent to business users.

[Betty Woo]

Maybe you need the wimax tablet, Betty?

Huh. Maybe I do? So many of these things haven't hit the average consumer's consciousness. I've never heard about it.

But, then again, I'd never heard of the EEC PC, either, until I read about it in this forum.

Alls I know; my eyes hurt after spending some time reading online on the N800 and that, ultimately, will be the deciding factor aside from price.

I'll have to take a look, though. Thanks!

[edited to get some spelling mistakes made because I was using the iGo Ultra-Slim and, well, squinting :D]

[Betty Woo]

Something I don't understand.... Why sync? THe tablet's small enough to have with you all the time, so make that your primary source of information.

Sure, if you have a work calendar that has enough on it (and what's there you need away from your desk) then I can see it, but for most people it would seem to make sense to use the tablet as their diary rather than their desktop.

Zebee

I'm far more likely to be sitting in front of my Mac than in front of the N800 during the regular course of the day. I also have an automatic backup system going (not that I've ever had a hard drive crash :::knocking on wood:::).

I'd just prefer to use Address Book to be my primary contacts list than the N800.

And if it's a pain to sync the N800 now, I don't want all the contact info stuck in the N800 waiting for me to have the time to refigure out how to sync it back to Address Book.

[mannakiosk]

Maybe you need the wimax tablet, Betty?

What was the name of that wimax tablet, again?

[geneven]

Here's an article I heard this morning on my N800 while jogging. I had never heard of femtocells before. Maybe this will solve all these problems in a few years.

Small, but disruptive

Feb 14th 2008
From The Economist print edition
Might femtocells be the personal computers of the wireless industry?

TECHNOLOGY conferences often resemble massive religious services, worshipping yet another digital calf. The Mobile World Congress, the wireless industry's largest gathering, which took place this week in Barcelona, is notorious for its tendency to bless a new technology as the “next big thing” each year. Its choice this year? Femtocells, or tiny wireless base-stations, which prompted a flurry of announcements and chatter about their prospects. Some even likened them to personal computers, saying that they will be to the wireless industry what PCs were to the computer industry. Might femtocells really be that disruptive?

“Femto” is the metric prefix denoting one quadrillionth (million billionth) of a unit. Femtocells are not that tiny, but they are very small, low-power versions of the radio towers and their wardrobe-sized base-stations used in mobile-phone networks. Hooked up to a home's broadband-internet connection, femtocells provide solid indoor coverage and allow residents to make cheap calls using their existing handsets. Leave the house while chatting, and your call is automatically handed over to the wider mobile-phone network.

Network operators will also benefit. Femtocells could reduce the load on their infrastructure, saving them from building more radio towers as they add more subscribers and introduce high-speed multimedia services. The technology also gives them a foothold in the home, where most telecoms services are consumed, and could even make subscribers more loyal.

Given these advantages, analysts expect femtocells to spread quickly. ABI Research, for instance, reckons there could be 70m in use by 2012. But the industry has a few problems to solve first. One is their ease of use: subscribers will be expected to set femtocells up themselves. Another is interference: too many femtocells in close proximity could interfere with each other, or with existing mobile networks.

Yet the biggest hurdle is the economics. Today the femtocell hardware costs around $200—twice what operators deem acceptable. Operators will also need to devise attractive pricing and service bundles. Though many have announced trials, only one operator—Sprint, in America—is actually selling femtocells. Sprint charges $50 for the device, and unlimited calls from the home cell then cost $15 per user per month, on top of the existing calling plan. (Users must provide a broadband connection, to which the femtocell connects.)

Femtocells are not expected to become common until 2009 at the earliest. But if they do become popular, they could make new things possible. Femtocells could serve as “digital filling stations”, for example, allowing people at home to download videos, music and other large files onto their handsets quickly via broadband before heading out of the door.

Femtocells may even change the way networks are designed. At the moment they are seen as add-ons to existing networks. But in new networks femtocells are likely to play a more central role, to the detriment of big, costly radio towers. This would be bad for the big telecoms-equipment firms, such as Ericsson, Nokia-Siemens and Alcatel-Lucent, which sell the gear used in today's networks. It also may explain why femtocells have so far mostly been pushed by start-ups, such as Airvana, ip.access and Ubiquisys.

Femtocells are indeed reminiscent of personal computers, in that they threaten to disrupt the industry. But whether they will dethrone big base-stations, as the PC dethroned minicomputers and mainframes, remains to be seen. After all, the mobile industry's “next big things” often turn out to be smaller than expected.

[Texrat]

What was the name of that wimax tablet, again?

Microsoft Bob.

[Betty Woo]

Maybe you need the wimax tablet, Betty?

Well... yes? I guess that *would* take me back to the EEC PC according to this article from Jan. 9, 2008:

The first gadget to come with built-in WiMax capability may be a new model of the EeePC, a diminutive laptop from ASUSTek Computer. The Taiwanese company started selling a version of the cheap computer without WiMax in the fourth quarter of last year and has sold 350,000 globally, Chief Executive Jonney Shih said.

An Eee with built-in WiMax will be available in the second quarter, Shih said. A price has not been decided.

(http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080109.wgtCESsprint0109/BNStory/Technology/home)

If it goes Windows, though - forget it. I just don't want the hassle of that operating system and the junk that floats down that internet pipe.

See? I'm learnin'!

[Texrat]

Nokia is releasing a wimax-enabled tablet very soon. There are threads on it under the news section here.

[marcrobert]

Canadians are getting hosed by hosers (eh). Just a short look at google pops up newspaper articles showing how high cellphone rates affect business around here and if it affects business, it's not too hard to see how it affects the spending habits of individuals; ( http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/tech/cellphones/economy.html) and an associated comparison of Rogers' Canadian plan with AT&T's US plan (http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/2087/125/)

I don't know if I'd qualify as an 'average' N800 user in Canada (the fact I'm female alone probably drops me out of that segment), but I never did and highly doubt I will ever use the N800 with a cellphone.

So the cellphone+N8xx = SmartPhone line of reasoning is dead to me, personally.

After owning PlayThing now for three weeks, I can see its strengths and weaknesses from a totally non-geeky (in the best way) perspective.

Pros:

1. It works well (once you get the hang of it).

2. The programs are free and do the basics.

3. The public forum support is friendly (here, at least).

4. It's cheap for on-the-go internet cruising and great for internet radio.

5. It's got that neato video camera (that I don't use) and a camera (that is fun to play with) and I can record (good for using in court, if I ever feel the need :rolleyes: ).


Cons:

1. I. Can't. Read. The. Fonts. The screen's just too damned small for comfortable reading and increasing the fonts just means I'm scrolling back and forth a lot.

2. Keyboard issues. The Ultra-Slim bluetooth one I got is fine. But it does mean an extra bag to carry around. Pecking at the onscreen keyboard is slow and I tried the N810 keyboard and found that to be too cramped.

3. PIM issues. There's nothing out there (yet?) that'll allow me to easily sync with my mac's Address Book. My mac. Not a windows or linux set-up. A mac - without running bootcamp. I want to sync directly with my Address Book (or at least find something that will accept an exported multiple-card file instead of individual cards and sync *all* the info, not just one name, the first phone number detected and an email address).

You know, in another year or so, I'm seriously going to check out the EEE PC and see what's improved on it and compare and contrast it with the N800.

In the end, I realize that if I really *am* looking for on-the-go travel internet access, the N800 doesn't really fit my needs totally - at least while I'm in Canada and while I'm dealing with eyesight strain.

If the EEE PC keeps down in the $300 level and has most of the qualities of the N800, has an integrated keyboard that doesn't make my fingers squashed, has a screen large enough for me to read without straining or excessive scrolling and no big ol' warning signs, I would consider getting it. In a year - I figure a year's worth of use is worth the price of the N800.

The EEE PC is appealing to me 'cause it's small and light enough not to take up too much room in a bag, it seems to do the basic stuff I'd want and what the N800 does (i.e. everything everyone else is doing in coffee shops with their laptops - cruising the 'net, writing off emails and maybe writing more substantial), ... .

Of course, *I* have a bag (a leather courrier bag but a bag, none the less). Which, when you look at the pretty colours the EEE PC comes in, makes it pretty obvious that the company is aiming for a lot of women like me.

The N800 certainly has a place in my heart now. In the future, I see it spending most of its time as an alarm/internet radio/bedside internet tablet. Which is a good vision since this means it'll be used for years and I will always think of it as money well-spent.

But I'm not slavish enough to a brand (or I would have just marched into an Apple store and bought an iTouch without thinking) and the N800 will have competition with the EEE PC - next year.

I too am frustrated with n800. Browser sucks as far as zooming, free wifi is about as common as low income taxes. Apple seems to have understood that! When next gen iphone hits Rogers, i will probably give it a try.

*** you might check out Archos 705. Same resolution but at least the screen is 7 inches. but then no PC functionality - it is a closed system with limited applications (pay as you go actually).

*** The EEE has the same screen resolution also 7 inch. For a few 100 bucks more, you could buy a 13 inch laptop 1400 x 900 which weighs 3 or 4 pounds. I probably should have done that. The 10 and 12 inch laptops are over priced.

Next EEEs will have windows
:mad:

[Betty Woo]

I too am frustrated with n800. Browser sucks as far as zooming, free wifi is about as common as low income taxes. Apple seems to have understood that! When next gen iphone hits Rogers, i will probably give it a try.

*** you might check out Archos 705. Same resolution but at least the screen is 7 inches. but then no PC functionality - it is a closed system with limited applications (pay as you go actually).

*** The EEE has the same screen resolution also 7 inch. For a few 100 bucks more, you could buy a 13 inch laptop 1400 x 900 which weighs 3 or 4 pounds. I probably should have done that. The 10 and 12 inch laptops are over priced.

Next EEEs will have windows
:mad:

If the EEEs have windows, they're off the table for me completely. I'm not dealing with virus threats and blue screens of death. I'm just... not. I'm not sure how they expect to keep the price low if Bill has anything to do with it, either.

See? For me, it all *does* come down to those 'few 100 bucks more'. I'm not poor but I'm trying to be a very sharp consumer and not buy more than I actually need (unless, you know, I get distracted by The Shiney like I was when my friend innocently showed me his N800 toy and, damned, it was under $225).

Been there, done that, got the bills to prove I used to do it.

I especially find that laptops, with their higher rate of repairs, are lousy assets and depreciate in value and usefulness much faster than my desktop set-up.

So, for me to consider one, it'll either have to be relatively cheap and have a screen I can actually read without squinting or scrolling all over the place (and Linux-y) so I'll be happy if I get a year or two of real usefullness out of it or I'll by-pass cheap windows machines and invest in a basic, refurb MacBook with AppleCare that know I can use for years.

Of course, my last mac lasted me seven years with about $400 in internal upgrades so I guess I'm not your average computer user, either :rolleyes:

Then again, there are these people who bought out the first batch of Amazon.com's $400US Kindle "wireless reading device". I don't get that one. It doesn't even have internet surfing capabilities that I can read in the description... .

[Texrat]

I like that marcrobert-- you just jumped from the N800 to a full-fledged laptop. :D

Different form factors for different uses and expectations. The N800 works for some of us, regardless of any zooming or wifi issues, but there are always qualifiers. I'm just glad I don't have to rely on my little cell phone screen or lug a laptop to check movie listings when I'm on the road. N800 works just fine for me. ;)

[Betty Woo]

Heck, yeah.

A basic MacBook's value per $100 is higher to me than that of a mid-range windows machine any day. And the higher the actual threshold cost of a non-Apple laptop that would satisfy my needs, the less space there is between the final cost of the adequate windows/linux machine and just buying a MacBook that I *know* I'd be happy with?

Yes. From catfood and cola to champagne and caviar, so to speak.

And I thought marcrobert would consider jumping to an iPhone?

[free]

The EEE doesn't enter in my pocket, it just does not compare to an itt.
For pim stuff, you realise why patents and closed applications are a pain for technology progress.
Do you think linux dev wouldn't be able to develop one? No no, it's just that the only thing that these companies have been able to invent is:
Locking mechanism
Lack of interoperability

And they can pay (a lot) some high skilled scientifics for developing new video codecs, new UI design. This is hard to do with with FOSS "business model".


Microsoft hasn't invented anything clever and opened as far as I know. It's just a marketing company. Die die die!!

If you don't pay or don't run their OS, you can not use the softwares included. It's a way of keeping the market while increasing the prices and needing more and more cpu power. Well, as long as people like to pay for a few colors, it will go on.

[johni58]

I read about Toontje aborting the N800 after we have all took it apart to find out how to make it do something it was not designed for and I am given a link to the Eee. I make the jump and what is the first thing I see ? A disassembled Eee where someone has taken it apart surely to make IT do something it was NOT intended for. Call me Amazed.........../ji

[myk]

but I never did and highly doubt I will ever use the N800 with a cellphone.
Then I think you may have bought the wrong gadget. The N800 is made by NOKIA, so they kind of expect you to have a "proper" cellphone, preferably 3G. Personally, I would not have bothered getting the n800 before I got an affordable data plan.
Cellphones with PIM have killed the PDA market. You should be syncing your mac with your phone, which is with you all the time. Sure, I'd like to sync the N800 too, but the phone is more important.
The beauty of the N800 is "internet everywhere". Its an internet tablet. At home or office, where you have a proper computer, why use the n800?
Sure you can use it as a media player, but there are better solutions out there.


1. I. Can't. Read. The. Fonts. The screen's just too damned small.

Lots of pixels, screen needs to be small. Therefore it needs to be held close, about 20cm/8". Eventually we all need reading glasses.

The Ultra-Slim bluetooth one I got is fine. But it does mean an extra bag to carry around. Pecking at the onscreen keyboard is slow
The keyboard is just for big trips, or the odd occasion tyou know you'll need it. Other times you can choose finger, stylus, or writing recognition. The latter especially is very fast with a little practice.

But I'm not slavish enough to a brand (or I would have just marched into an Apple store and bought an iTouch without thinking) and the N800 will have competition with the EEE PC - next year.

It sounds like the iTouch would have suited you better. Its a beautiful media player, but lack of bluetooth for cellphone access killed it for me. The iTouch is a usable PIM and has good email, once its jailbroken.

Instead of the Eeepc, consider a second-hand mini-laptop. I got an old IBM X-23 to take on vacation for movies and web. Cheaper than an Eeepc, and with a proper screen. 1.6kg.

[qole]

Personally, I would not have bothered getting the n800 before I got an affordable data plan.

You're obviously not Canadian. There's no such beast as the 'affordable data plan' here. That's why Apple won't sell the iPhone to us.

I have never owned a cell phone. Don't plan to. I love my N800. She's my precioussss... Free Wi-Fi is becoming ubiquitous, at least in Vancouver, my hometown.

The beauty of the N800 is "internet everywhere". Its an internet tablet. At home or office, where you have a proper computer, why use the n800?

For one thing, I can have a pocketable Internet radio player (via campus wi-fi), even when my office's firewall disallows it. Comics in the bathroom, e-books in bed or on the bus...

PS: This was typed on the stylus keyboard in my in-laws' living room.

[myk]

You're obviously not Canadian. There's no such beast as the 'affordable data plan' here.... Free Wi-Fi is becoming ubiquitous

Its only recently that 3G data has been priced for consumers in Australia.
It still expensive outside the major cities, where Telstra still has a monopoly. (Too expensive for most consumers)
However the mobile phone situation in general is much better, while cable/adsl access is much worse than in Canada. It all comes down to evil inefficient monopolies - Telstra and AT&T/Rogers, and where they find competition. And also regulation. Rogers gets away with thoroughly unethical anticompetitive practices, such as unjustified handset locking.
Good luck.

[qole]

I'm responding to all sorts of things in several other posts...

...I've been .. using ssh, scp, and web...

What scp client are you using? I haven't found anything really useful yet, but I think that's because I'm looking for a GUI, and you're working from a command line.


You know that -X works just fine with ssh on the N8x0, don't you? That magic parameter allows you to run Xwindows apps on your N8x0 just as you would a larger workstation. I typically pull up nedit, xchat, or various little apps from mine.

WELL, "screen" works with them too. :D No, I didn't know that either. I told a co-worker about my fear of lost scripts this morning, and that screen had saved my arse, and he told me he's been using screen and X on his N800. His connection drops, he reconnects, and his Xwindows are still there?!

I use VNC and a N8x0 sized server screen for the same "persistant session" effect. (vncserver -geometry 800x480) I'm sure it's more resource hungry, but I like it.

Last time I tried it, I couldn't get past thunderbird password prompt. How do you enter text on a remote, non hildonized, app? (with an n800 and no hardware keyboard).

This is where VNC wins, on an N800 with no hardware keyboard. VNC uses the on-screen keyboard if you need it.

... big PDA systems like the Advantage or Shift from HTC look a lot better for many jobs including cross-platform programming (JAVA)

I looked up the price on those HTC systems. I spluttered coffee when I saw the price... HTC Advantage: $975! HTC Shift: $2000!! Those devices aren't in any way comparable to the tablets.

Maybe you need the wimax tablet, Betty?

I think that the upcoming Nokia Wimax Tablet could be the Next Disruptive Technology. Here in Canada, we can't get reasonable rates on cell phone data plans, but, from the same company (Rogers) that charges criminal rates (http://tekartist.org/blog/2008/02/07/rogers-canada-wireless-data-plan-update-good-vs-bad/) for cell phone data plans ($0.05 per KB if you tether!), we can get "Portable Internet Lite" (256k/s down) for $20 a month or "Portable Internet" (1.5 MB/s down) for $45 a month. The coverage is very good in urban centres (like cell phone coverage 10 years ago). Looks like there's a 30GB download limit. In general, it is structured like a residential Internet service, not like a cell phone data plan. They don't even have it under "wireless services," but under "Internet services"!

When the Wimax Tablet drops, there will be a lot of people here realizing you can get a handheld computer that works like a smartphone with really fast Internet, VoIP, etc, all for a reasonable flat monthly rate, compared to the outrageous rates smartphone users pay.

Everything's gonna change.

[tso]

the htc shift is a full windows computer with a built in mobile phone with windows mobile.

with the press of a button one can jump from one to the other.

sadly they have crippled the windows mobile part...

[distguitar]

Once you can not put it in your pocket, does it really matter how big your laptop bag is?


+1. Totally agree.

[paulkoan]

Not any more, at least in the major cities.
There are a few options around A$30/month now.
I'm on A$15/month for 1GB with '3', though voice rates are a bit high, and data roaming outside the 3G areas is $1.65/MB (The phone is set not to allow this!).

Vodafone AU has data incorporated into its caps. So the $79 cap includes up to $500 of data, voice, whatever.

[qole]

the htc shift is a full windows computer with a built in mobile phone with windows mobile.

with the press of a button one can jump from one to the other.

sadly they have crippled the windows mobile part...

All this for only $2000? Wow.

[paulkoan]

the htc shift is a full windows computer with a built in mobile phone with windows mobile.
...

sadly they have crippled the windows mobile part...

It is hard to imagine Windows Mobile more crippled than it is normally.

I have had a WM pda for years and I cannot stand it - it is a fight from the very start to get it to be remotely useful.

Hence my reason for exploring the n810 option.

[Betty Woo]

Then I think you may have bought the wrong gadget. The N800 is made by NOKIA, so they kind of expect you to have a "proper" cellphone, preferably 3G. Personally, I would not have bothered getting the n800 before I got an affordable data plan.
Cellphones with PIM have killed the PDA market. You should be syncing your mac with your phone, which is with you all the time. Sure, I'd like to sync the N800 too, but the phone is more important.

I don't want a cellphone plan. I don't need a cellphone beyond my $100 a year 7-11 deal. I'm actually pretty anti-cellphone - lots of noise and air pollution coming out of people on their phones all. The. Damned. Time.

And if you think a Canadian is going to wait for an N800 until there's an 'affordable' data plan, you'll be waiting until the N12xx, I'm afraid. Or until there's more competition in the cellphone market 'round here... . If it's any consolation, I have a Nokia basic phone from 7-11.

The beauty of the N800 is "internet everywhere". Its an internet tablet. At home or office, where you have a proper computer, why use the n800?
Sure you can use it as a media player, but there are better solutions out there.

The N800 is pretty good as a media player (and cheaper than a lot of them). But it *can* act as an internet tablet as long as you have wifi and it *is* a good companion as long as you're in a city with coffeeshops and such that have paid or free internet. Luckily, I have a coffeeshop right downstairs from my office with free internet access so a chia latte and the N800 and I have the ability to at least read my private emails (that I can't do in office since they filter out online and ISP email capabilities). But I imagine that anywhere I am likely to go in the next two years will have similar set-ups.

It's not like I'd bring it into the middle of nowhere. Not that having a local data plan and a phone would be practical, really, in the middle of nowhere, either... .


Lots of pixels, screen needs to be small. Therefore it needs to be held close, about 20cm/8". Eventually we all need reading glasses.

Yes. Once the rose-coloured glasses came off, I realized quick enough that anything beyond light reading on the web was off limits on this thing. Word processors and chat clients are different though, in that you can change the font size without resorting to scrolling.

[snip]

It sounds like the iTouch would have suited you better. Its a beautiful media player, but lack of bluetooth for cellphone access killed it for me. The iTouch is a usable PIM and has good email, once its jailbroken.

iTouch is $319CAN + taxes for the 8GB (plus the hassle to jailbreak it), the screen's smaller and you're stuck with Apple-propriatary applications and nowhere to go other than to sit on your *** and wait for Apple to deign to provide users with something of like an application bauble to keep the users amused.

As far as I know, it doesn't have Skype or very good media players. And the memory is not expandable. And the keyboard issue would still be there.

Ergo, it has less features than the N800 for about 45% higher price. Whereever I go, my iPod Nano goes, too. So syncing will happen between my Mac and my gadgets. It just won't be with the N800... which is a shame.

Aside from the features problem I had with the iTouch was simply the cost. I'm realistic. I figure whatever I have that's technology-based *now*, I'll invariably replace in two-ish years (except my Macs. I tend to keep those for 5-6 years). I just don't want to spend that much money on something that I'll feel is kind of obsolete in two years.

At least the N800 will make a great bedside alarm/clock/internet radio station/convenient internet capable tablet once I replace it in my toy chest with something else. Unlike, say, my old iPods that are just gathering dust right now.


Instead of the Eeepc, consider a second-hand mini-laptop. I got an old IBM X-23 to take on vacation for movies and web. Cheaper than an Eeepc, and with a proper screen. 1.6kg.

I'll see where I'm at the next time I have to travel beyond two weeks. *That* won't happen at least until the fall, unfortunately.

[qole]

So how do I get Texrat to thank me for a pro-NIT post? ;)

[mrgreaper]

i found this thread doing a search for "tank" lol looking for a chared or scorched tank clone for os2008 on a nokia n800, wierd how you find things,

for my part im still learning the device, i brought it to replace a nokia e51 and a psp its doing the job nicely and though i have only had it 4 days im starting to find it very easy to use ( this forum has helped in that respect man you guys are a godsend) i love the little device despite the few problems i have left and have shown it off to most of my mates (by friday they shall all of seen it, numpty physics has persuaded one of my mates to buy one next pay day ! )

EVERYbody should have one of these little tablets

[meanwhile]

Dad,

I could swear he said "I just want something that works."

He did, and in the areas of functionality he named, the Nit does seem to be problematic. e.g. BT keyboard support involves some real annoyances, if people haven't been lying in their posts. It's also hard to award a "just works" sticker to an Internet browsing platform that messes up ebay and wordpress blogs. (Come to think of it, it messes up on this forum too, especially while trying to type replies.) And, yes, it completely fails to offer any security model for applications other than Nokia warning you that you're screwed if you run a bad 'un (which of course they only do once you bought the device.)

The Nit has a mixture of strengths and weaknesses that make it enticing but problematic as anything but a toy for early adopters. I'm glad I have mine, but I'd only give it a very cautious recommendation to non-techie friends.