[Canola] Canola & N810

[timsalmon]

Canola looks great, but I *still* can't install it! I'm sorry if this is an FAQ but I did do a search and didn't find anything.
I tried to install this first to my N810 around Christmas, when the new version came out. It kept failing to install, so I read here that the 'servers were being bombarded' and 'wait a few days' so I did. It's now nearly the end of February and it *still* won't install. Every time I try, I just get the same message about it failing.

Any ideas?

Tim

[chenca]

timsalmon,

Follow this steps:

1) Install Canola-Cleanup (maemo extras)
2) Run Canola-Cleanup (extras menu icon)
3) Try to install Canola2 again.

If this doesn't work, please let me know.

[timsalmon]

The Clean Up file was not in the list, so I could not run it, I'm afraid.

I got so fed up with it that I did a NSU and discovered that there was a new software version available for download, so did it. No backup taken, no restore needed. Virginal machine (though I noticed that it remembered the time and date afterwards - though this could be a physical battery maybe).

Now going back to Canola, went to the website, followed the three stage instructions, same result. I get a window saying it's downloading 6.88MB file, then no progress bar filling, and after a couple of minutes "Downloading Canola2 failed" window and one button "Close" to select.

This is exactly what happened before I updated the software - every time. After the "Base" stage of the procedure, am I supposed to do something else? It just seems to download and install then nothing.

Thanks for your help

Tim

[handful]

Hi tim, do you have the application manager log for the failure? this is the most vital data we need now, because this is not well reproduceable. But seems that in some networks is indeed failuring the download, and this becomes a drag to install.

Canola-cleanup should be on the application manager once you get MAEMO EXTRAS repository installed. If you're downloading canola... then it's there, can you try it?

It will clean any damaged installation letting you try again.

It seems that the massive amount of components in canola is giving the application manager some headaches, and we are trying like crazy to find out what is happening.
If it's really on canola package, if it's the server failing here and there or if the application manager has a non-easily-reproduceable bug dealing with the dependencies.

So please, if anything fails.. you can private message me.. or please post the log from the application manager here.

Abs

Marcelo

[timsalmon]

I've saved the log but there's a huge amount of text. Are you sure I should post it here? Or can I attach the .txt file somehow?

I think I've attached the .txt file called Log here somehow, but I'm not sure.

Tim

[fms]

BTW, when trying to update from Canola2 Beta3 to Beta5 today, Application Manager failed to find the lightmediascanner0 library. After removing Beta3 with Canola-Cleanup, the Application Manager just plain fails to install Beta5, no details given.

[handful]

Hi FMS :

do you know how to use SSH ? To connect to your tablet with your pc? If so, you can try the apt-get install canola.

It's really odd, that people face this problems and we are not able to reproduce them here : / I'm starting to think that we will need our own simple installer to make sure things go our way, because we never know what breaks the application installer.

Br

Marcelo

[fms]

Yes, I know how to use SSH and do apt-get, but the most likely outcome is that the installation will still fail: after all, the Application Manager uses the same apt-get, as I understand things.

I suggest that rather than writing more custom installation tools, you try to reduce the amount of stuff Canola depends on, especially stuff that is not on the tablet by default. The more external packages you rely upon, the more installation problems your users will get.

[handful]

@fms : (don't take me wrong)

We depend on something external, exactly because we don't have enough developers to develop everything. And this is the whole point of the linux based distro, and I don't think it's our fault to trust something that should be working flawlessly and is breaking with no reason. So much reason that using the apt-get do things (yes they use the same) but something on the management side on the App manager breaks.

So, the installation is last resort, and it's only a simple download the packages or a big package and do the dpkg by itself.

Details: we only use stuff that is not available on the tablet on last resort. So python is our tool, we need to support it as much as possible, and the bindings are necessary. The thing is we should get no problems with download manager or libEVAS as we are the only ones using it.

So in the end : this could a problem we are not finding in our side, can be a problem because python was removed from the repositories the way it was... can be a application manager not able to handle a x number of dependencies... and can just be the server behaving erratic, sending users packages broken : /

About your case :

Did you try removing all the libraries? just like the cleanup does?
just installing now will not work, you need to remove canola2, remove all the libs and then apt-get install.

Sorry for all this trouble, we are doing our best.. but when we are not able to reproduce with the minimal precision it's REALLY complicated to fix something :/

Br

Marcelo

[handful]

Tim : please send us, it's a huge amount of file.. or you can PM me to have my email..
actually .. handful AT gmail

Thanks very very much for the patience and help

Marcelo

[fms]

We depend on something external, exactly because we don't have enough developers to develop everything. And this is the whole point of the linux based distro, and I don't think it's our fault to trust something that should be working flawlessly and is breaking with no reason.
Sorry to hear you do not have enough people - you are really doing a job that IMHO has more potential to benefit Nokia than endless "fashion phone" repackaging.

As to reusing external stuff being the whole point of Linux, it has also been a weak point of Linux for a very long time. Aside from the DLL-hell issue, you simply can't expect scores of packages from unrelated people to work together flawlessly. It won't happen. Never does. That's exactly why more conservative BSD-based systems have "correct" versions of all the important bits (libraries, includes, PERL, etc.) installed somewhere safe in the system, as part of the core distribution, and never changed.

Did you try removing all the libraries? just like the cleanup does?
just installing now will not work, you need to remove canola2, remove all the libs and then apt-get install.
I am going to research the matter and try to figure out just what exactly is preventing Canola from installing right now. Been busy porting my own stuff to Maemo, hence is the delay.

[handful]

Hi FMS:

Thanks for any minute you're able to put on this we really appreciate. As most of the users facing problems are not that linux-savvy it's even harder to get debug info from them.

About the dependencie problems : I (marcelo) totally agree, but once we work on this platform we cannot be aliens : / thus we try to play by the rules, because we don't think we are different from the others, but there's no way to hide the problems, and canola is showing this. I told the guys on the office this week : for me it would be just a big tar.gz file and unpacking it would install it with a wizard (to already configure media folders, safe modes, where to store things etc)

But again... time x work force to do that.. : / Canola is a hobby project here, so while working on it we do need to do "commercial" work to pay the bills , so you get the dimension of the problem : /

[fms]

Thanks for any minute you're able to put on this we really appreciate. As most of the users facing problems are not that linux-savvy it's even harder to get debug info from them.
Miraculously, I managed to install it. From the app manager. Here is what I have done differently:

1. Canola instructions tell you to click on the repository installation button. The repository is quite a common one so most people already have it added. Adding it for the second time will screw up app manager in a non-obvious way.

2. When instructions say "reboot after running Canola cleanup", it is not an option. You should absolutely, definitely reboot, or all kinds of strange things start happening when you try installing Canola again.

for me it would be just a big tar.gz file and unpacking it would install it with a wizard (to already configure media folders, safe modes, where to store things etc)
Well, I guess that would be a bit too radical. The app manager is fine. It is the complicated framework of dependencies that is causing problems. These depndencies will cause problems with or without the app manager, I am afraid.

Canola is a hobby project here, so while working on it we do need to do "commercial" work to pay the bills , so you get the dimension of the problem : /
I strongly hope Canola does become a commercial project for Nokia at some point. It is certainly in line with Nokia's efforts to make a name in multimedia devices business and it is also a huge argument against choosing an iPhone.

[handful]

FMS :

The app manager is fine. It is the complicated framework of dependencies that is causing problems. These depndencies will cause problems with or without the app manager, I am afraid.

Sorry about that, we develop a lot of tablet apps, and the app instaler is not fine :/ it still has a lot of things to be improved, but I'm not saying it is app manager fault, just saying that it is too easily broken on strange situations. And the dependencie madness was not happening on beta1 (the only problem was the server) I really believe it's a combination of problems on transfer x some little bug.

about the repositories being installed again : we also thought that this could be it : but it's also not reproduceable. And on a virgin device there;s not maemo extras : / And believe not everyone have it, so we cannot "take for granted" that all users have it : /

Br

Marcelo

[Locutus73]

BTW, when trying to update from Canola2 Beta3 to Beta5 today, Application Manager failed to find the lightmediascanner0 library. After removing Beta3 with Canola-Cleanup, the Application Manager just plain fails to install Beta5, no details given.

Yesterday I tried an apt-get update followed by an apt-get upgrade and the second command reported that lightmediascanner0, canloa2 and other libs where held back by the apt infrastructure, so no update.
An apt-get dist-upgrade solved the issue so I succesfully upgrade everything on my N810.

[handful]

Just a tip for the other users based on Tim's experience : please, check your internet connection before installing Canola, or at least try installing some small application first to make sure you can download files from the repo. Sometimes we are behind firewalls and while you can browse you will not be able to install files.

Problem was solved for TIM, was connection to the internet limited.

BR

Marcelo

[MikeL]

Sometimes we are behind firewalls and while you can browse you will not be able to install files.I believe Handful meant to say that sometimes the user trying to install Canola2 can be behind a firewall (Company, College, University etc) which can stop downloads even though internet access to the outside world appears to be OK to the user.

[timsalmon]

Actually, Marcelo, this is not true. As I said in my email, there is something about the N810 that does not let me download *anything* at *any* wifi network. I tried downloading Canola (and other apps) on the N810 at home and work but neither place did it work. Then I tried doing the same thing with my N800 and it installed perfectly at home and work. So it's *not* to do with firewalls and networks and routers, otherwise it wouldn't have worked for my N800. I think you misunderstood what was being said in my email.

I now have to work out why my N800 will download and my N810 will not.

But thanks again for your suggestions - however, my quest will continue.

Tim

[MikeL]

Then I tried doing the same thing with my N800 and it installed perfectly at home and work.Hi Tim, So Canola2 will install perfectly on your N800 but not on your N810 and its the only application that is giving you problems on your N810?

You mention at the start of this thread that you got your N810 around Christmas 2007, during the "repository hell" period. Did you by any chance use any temporary repositories to download Canola2 and/or other applications? (Have you since removed these?)

It does sound like something is generally amiss with your N810, have you really updated to latest version of OS2008 for the N810. I would be tempted to do consider starting afresh again on your N810, I also would not use the backup facility unless its absolutely necessary. (This way you will have a clean device to install Canola and your other favorite applications) Note: You imply you have done this and then the only other thing you did was try to install Canola2 from the website following the instructions?

[timsalmon]

Hello Mike

No - nothing will download to the N810 and everything will download to the N800. Tested from two wifi sources. The other day I used NSU to upgrade the N810 to the latest version, because I could not get stuff downloading - I thought this may fix it. I could try again, I suppose - if NSU will let me. I did not use backup and restore when I did this, so did start afresh with a clean N810. I have tried installing Canola from the website too.

What a mystery!

Tim

[MikeL]

The Nokia Update wizard (Windows, currently version 1.2.2) will allow you to re-install the OS and should simply re-install the latest version of OS2008 if this is already on your device. http://europe.nokia.com/A4678158

Tip, you can also pre-download the OS prior to running the Nokia Update Wizard and this saves time in the future with updating to the latest and/or earlier versions of OS (You do not have to wait for wizard to download OS as part of update procedure) Follow the instructions here http://europe.nokia.com/A4680164

Make sure that once you have re-installed the latest OS on your device you switch it off, removing the battery to be sure it "Hard resets" the device.

Then before you try to install anything else, go to the Canola2 website and follow the install instructions for the N810
http://openbossa.indt.org.br/canola/install.html

Advise how you get on and will try and help you further if you are still having problems.

[timsalmon]

No. Afraid not, Mike. Did everything you said but it still gets stuck at the Downloading Canola 6.88MB screen then 'Downloading canola2 failed'. Reflashed using the NSU method and using the file you sent a link to. It's just not downloading anything. Nothing will get downloaded so nothing can install.

I took the battery out, as instructed. Though I don't really think the reinstall software process really did anything as it was over *very* quickly (not the 20 mins it was before) and NSU was reporting 'already up to date'. I tried again by selecting the file I downloaded but the same thing happened.

Should I copy the file to the device and execute it from there?

Tim

[timsalmon]

No - just tried that. The N810 can't execute the file.

Mmmmm...

[MikeL]

Hi Tim, thats strange for sure and you can access the internet from the N810?

With regard to re-installing the OS if you downloaded first and then locally re-install (Flashed) the OS using the Nokia Update Wizard then yes the install will be a lot faster as you are not waiting whilst it first downloads the software.

Hmmm ?

[anidel]

May be it's a problem with the caching of the files on the mirrors (if any) and not a tablet's fault ?

[MikeL]

May be it's a problem with the caching of the files on the mirrors (if any) and not a tablet's fault ?Yes but what about installing another application timsalmon? I think you explained that you could not install anything not just Canola2 on your N810?

[MikeL]

Sure this is a silly question, You are getting a successful update of OS with the update wizard confirming to remove NIT from USB connection etc at end of update process?

[timsalmon]

Just did it all again. Same thing. Noticed during the process, however, that it said 'Catalog already installed but disabled - enable now?' so it does seem to be a problem with either the unit or the Application Manager. It downloads the first stage bit OK then gets stuck on the Canola download.

Just tried a new experiement - reflashed then battery out then didn't go anywhere near Canola and tried to install something else from the list. Failed again, so it's not the Canola Base download that's screwing the unit.

Throughout all this it connects to the internet fine using Web.

And as I said earlier, the N800 downloads and installs Canola perfectly using the same router and network.

Beginning to sound like the N810 is defective?

Tim

[timsalmon]

Yes - NSU confirms successful update and tells me to remove USB.

Tim

[MikeL]

But then you cannot install ANY other applications? (or just cannot install Canola2)

If you cannot install Canola2 via web site after a clean OS install but can install other applications then this would then suggest something wrong at the http://openbossa.indt.org.br/canola/ website? as mentioned by anidel

[MikeL]

Just did it all again. Same thing. Noticed during the process, however, that it said 'Catalog already installed but disabled - enable now?'Assume you said yes enable?

Hmmmm

You could try enabling the repository that is installed but not enabled by default on the device using the application manager, before you try to install Canola2 from the web. (After another clean reflash?)

Settings, Application Manager
Application manager, Tools, Application Catalogue
Select "maemo Extras", Edit it and ensure "Disabled" box is unchecked.

This is just my idea, not sure if it will help.

[timsalmon]

No - nothing will install. Or rather, nothing will download, except that the Application Manager will refresh and go online to do so, obviously, and Web will let me surf. What foxes me is that the N800 behaves perfectly and installs everything (including Canola) which makes me thing that there *must* be something wrong with the N810 - unless there's something simple that I'm not doing - some setting (I have looked) that enables downloads somewhere - which is new for N810 and wasn't in N800.

Further testing just now - successfully downloaded a podcast from the Web and set up RSS feed reader and refreshed it - all downloaded properly. It seems to be clearly related to the Application Manager where the problem lies...

Yes, thanks to anidel for his suggestion and help.

Tim

[timsalmon]

The box was checked so I unchecked it then a new bunch of apps were downloaded on the refresh but still none of them will install. Every app I try just fails.

Thanks ever so much for your help so far Mike and I hope we can resolve this, but I need to go to work now so can't do any more until this evening with this problem.

I'll turn it all off until then and try another reflash before anything else.

Cheers

Tim

[handful]

Tim, send us the application manager log. This is the best way to know fix the problem...
just saying what happens doesn't help too much :/

I will wait for your log

Marcelo

[timsalmon]

OK Mike, I've sent the Log file now to you by email. Sorry it's such a pain, but hopefully a good scoop of people can learn from this, not just me.

Tim

[jedihamster]

Hi,I've been attempting to install the latest update for canola 2 v5 but have been unable to install it.It doesn't download at all.I have reflashed my n800 through all os2008 versions and have now found a way to download it.It's doing it now as i type.First switch off device,second remove any memory cards,now try to install canola.Even though i'd run the canola 2 cleanup there must have been some information on my cards that were preventing the download and install.:)

[jedihamster]

Just finished the install...downloaded perfectly.

[timsalmon]

Thanks for this information, Jedi. Certainly worth a try but alas, no joy for me with my N810 problem. Strange thing is, as I've said before, it installed perfectly (as do all apps) on my N800, memory card present or not.

I will continue my quest!

Tim

[timsalmon]

Aha! We got there! Many thanks to Marcelo Eduardo for his time and support. The issue may remain unclear but he was able to fix it by formatting the internal memory. Everything now loading as it should be and apps installing.

Many thanks Marcelo.

Tim

[handful]

Hi everyone, actually it seems that this problem with N810 memory is a known bug, so everyuser out there facing installation problems (for everything not only canola) should do the format to fix it

[lantz]

Can someone point me in the right direction? I'm new here and have searched the threads but cant find a solution.
When I try to install canola I get this error message...
Unable to install Canola2 media player
Application packages missing:
lightmediascanner0-plugins (>=0.3.0-maemo2)
libpng12-0 (>=1.2.13-4)
libpng12-0 (>=1.2.37)
I have re-flashed my N810, reformatted the internal memory and rebooted several times and I have also installed and ran the canola removal tool.
I had canola installed a few weeks ago bur since a re-flash I cant get canola back.
Any advice or links to threads that address this prob would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Lantz

[iliaden]

I could clarify the problem a bit ( i have the same one)

After manually installing libpng12-0 (found for maemo after searching for it), I still have the following problem:
canolad depends on lightmediascanner-plugins
canola2 depends on lightmediascanner0-plugins

because of that, canola2 is not installable (since it depends on canolad, and both lightmediascanners are incompatible with each-other)