N810 wimax?

[neila]

I am investigating buying an N810. I am curious about the diference between the current model and the potential "wimax" one. Does this mean the wimax will have a SIM card or something like that? The tech guy at Nokia knew nothing and I am a slaesman not a terribly knowledgeable computer person. I want to use the tablet to enter info on Zoho Creator forms that will hopefully be a big productivity bump for small non-enterprise users. Thanks for the help. I love the possibilities, but don't want to invest in something that will be dated in 6 months.

[Benson]

Not sure if it's a SIM or what, but they will (as far as we can tell) be equivalent to an N8x0 (we're not sure which yet) except for WiMAX connectivity. So any information for other WiMAX devices is likely applicable.

[neila]

Thanks Do you have a potential time frame? I think I should wait.

[sachin007]

Thanks Do you have a potential time frame? I think I should wait.

yes you better wait. Given that the n810 prices reallly fell recently one would expect a release sooner than later. Only downside is that the new device i would expect would be in the region of 500$ so be prepared to shell out that much.

Or you can buy a second hand n800 which at the current prices would be really worth no matter what.

[neila]

If it can do what I think it can then it will be worth $500. Thanks again.

[nilchak]

Rumours or for real ?

A N810 with WiMAX is around the corner...
http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2008/03/13/nokia-n810-with-wimax-launching-april-1st-at-ctia/

[Navi]

Rumours or for real ?

A N810 with WiMAX is around the corner...
http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2008/03/13/nokia-n810-with-wimax-launching-april-1st-at-ctia/
Sounds more like an early April Fool's joke to me.

[Texrat]

Sounds more like an early April Fool's joke to me.

hee hee hee...

[jzencovich]

hee hee hee...

Oh my, Tex, How many ways can your post be interpreted?

Wipe that smirk off your face, and spill the secrets. All of them. in your grayish-orangeish brain of yours.

Spill.


When, what, where, and how. I dare you. Take a walk on the wild side, defy the higher-ups. For the sake of all of us.

(except the ones who are dead)



(please?)

[Texrat]

um... soon?

[wizink]

um... soon?

Surely you must receive some sort of bonus for taunting us and increasing the rate of baldness. :D

[sjgadsby]

...spill the secrets. All of them. in your grayish-orangeish brain of yours.

Ah, it'll never work. He'll just imitate Chunk from The Goonies: Everything. OK! I'll talk! In third grade, I cheated on my history exam. In fourth grade, I stole my uncle Max's toupee and I glued it on my face when I was Moses in my Hebrew School play. In fifth grade, I knocked my sister Edie down the stairs and I blamed it on the dog...

[Benson]

Sounds more like an early April Fool's joke to me.

No, Nokia is releasing it then, so that all the gadget sites (and texrat) can play an April Fool's joke on us by denying it, and the only person to buy one the first day will be an Apple dude who mistook it for an iPod Touch, only to return ir in disgust when he finds it has a <disgusted-fanboy-voice>keyboard</disgusted-fanboy-voice>.

[Benson]

Ah, it'll never work. He'll just imitate Chunk from The Goonies:

Well, that'd be better than the infuriating, ambiguous, doublespeak hints, wouldn't it? Then we could just ignore him for a while.

[Texrat]

Surely you must receive some sort of bonus for taunting us and increasing the rate of baldness. :D

Hey, great idea! :D

/me scurries off to propose new bonus incentive...

[bac522]

I'm not sure how anyone can release a product based on WiMax today due to the multiple frequencies that are used to support WiMax between licensed and unlicensed spectrum throughout the world and I seriously doubt Nokia is going to spend the time and effort to support all the frequencies on a product that, on the revenue scale, is nothing more then a drop in a 100 gallon bucket. http://www.dailywireless.org/2008/02/28/wimax-deployment-maps/

[Texrat]

You guys need to quit thinking about the status quo, and picture the future.

[cLin]

Can someone explain what wiimax is in layman's terms?

[dan]

texrat I love you, but WiMax is three years out from full scale adoption if even possible. Even then it conflicts with Europe and Asia. Sprint nearly went under last year because of WiMax costs. Google has a better plan and it couldn't even follow through because it was too costly. The new spectrum auctions offer a solution again three years out. This is an area that only the federal government can finance and help build, states will also need to play a major role. It would be wiser for Nokia to focus it's resources on software for this linux platform and adding additional features that are usable now not three years out(ex: the mini usb port n810 has. No one really has been able to get them in any quantity to satisfy n810 owners-Rob who builds the otg can tell you how hard it is to secure those, minisdhc too far out, etc...). I and other user(present and future) want technology that is useful today. A phone would be a welcome addition, full usb support for (charging, external devises), IR, better gps, tv chips, better graphics card, strong processor, rotation in kernal, etc... These are practical technologies that we need now and that will bring in many more new users. They bought that software company that helps with kde. KDE and others like it should be ported natively. Nokia supporting companies like the Canola project are giving Nokia instant rewards. N8xx users rave about Canola. WiMax should be ported when it's up and running. There are more pressing needsnow - like how to keep you fed. :) Dan

[Texrat]

texrat I love you, but WiMax is three years out from full scale adoption if even possible.

So?

It's a chicken and egg scenario, granted, but won't the spoils go to whichever companies grit their collective teeth and get started?

Do we wait for WiMAX to be pervasive before making devices that use it, or try to seed areas where it's already taking root?

Do we give up due to incompatibilities, or try to find ways to overcome or otherwise resolve them?

If people had always historically given up for the reasons WiMAX is currently doubted, then we wouldn't be typing this over a global networking medium. ;)

[dan]

The problem with WiMax is that's too costly for one or even a couple of companies to take on at the present. I would love to have WiMax, but at the present I would prefer a phone, two sdhc cards, IR, and more software natively. Like I said in another post I would buy the new Nxx if it has a phone and two memory slots (sdhc). WiMax is an added bonus but I won't be in an area with coverage for at least a year. And if Sprint's board has any more say they will kill the project. I guess it's safe to conclude that os2009 will be released with this new machine. OS2009 will be great if the early word about easier app loading is true. Keep up your ratty ways bro. :)

[Texrat]

To each his own. :p

[krisse]

On the subject of Nokia focusing resources on now and not three years from now, I read recently that their research into Linux devices predated the first tablet by several years. If Nokia didn't put any resources into long term projects, the tablets wouldn't have existed in the first place.

It's the same with their smartphones, they took years to get Symbian off the ground but it's now used by the majority of the world's smartphones.

WiMax sounds more useful in America than in Europe, as Europeans already have much more open access to the phone networks and sim-free devices are relatively common. America's phone networks are far too tightly controlled by their operators, which would restrict sales of a phone-enabled tablet, and WiMax perhaps offers a way of sidestepping their control.

The tablets are apparently far more popular in the USA than in Europe, so WiMax on the tablets would probably make sense in the long term.

[Karel Jansens]

On the subject of Nokia focusing resources on now and not three years from now, I read recently that their research into Linux devices predated the first tablet by several years. If Nokia didn't put any resources into long term projects, the tablets wouldn't have existed in the first place.

Wow.

Years of research, and this is what they came up with? It makes one wonder what they've really been researching: The best implementation of a mobile Linux? Or: "How can we use Linux and still tie-in users?"

[Texrat]

Wow.

Years of research, and this is what they came up with? It makes one wonder what they've really been researching: The best implementation of a mobile Linux? Or: "How can we use Linux and still tie-in users?"

Karel, Karel, Karel... *sigh*.

New platform. Paradigm shift. High disruption potential. Baby steps.

[krisse]

Karel, it's not that easy to instantly come up with a computer platform for a pocket-sized device which can run off a battery and be accessed from a small screen.

From my limited experience, the mobile side of device design seems to be much more difficult than desktop computer design. Most of the work on Symbian for example has gone on the behind-the-scenes mobile stuff like Bluetooth, 3G, wi-fi, maximising battery life, multitasking with low amounts of RAM, reducing the number of microchips to shrink the phone etc which just wouldn't necessarily be issues on a desktop machine.

None of these are things people would notice straight away when they use a device, but they are vital for powering the features they do use.

Apple put all their iPhone resources into the interface, hence they came up short with actual hardware features (no 3G, no 3.5G, no GPS, no advanced camera, no SDK, no budget models, etc). Apple are now having to play catchup with the behind-the-scenes stuff while Nokia and others play catchup with the interface.

I'm not saying all long term research is automatically worthwhile, just that you have to do long term research at some point, and better sooner than later.

[dan]

I agree on spending on long term future technology its that you have to balance that with the present. In regards to N8xx platform we really need software development and a phone and full usb support. Put WiMax on new N8xx but give it current technology(usb support, phone 2 sdhc cards, etc...) so that it is useful in the present. The biggest complaint I hear from users on these threads are lack of software support and full usb. So add WiMax but also add the things we need in the present. I do like that new tv support that I can use yesterday! :) Dan

[GeneralAntilles]

. . . and full usb.

What? I don't think I've ever heard anybody complain about that. Aside from the obvious lack of a point (we have OTG, plus fullsize USB doesn't normally act in client mode) How the hell do you expect fit a fullsize USB port into a device this size, anyway?

[devaler]

I think you misunderstood his point about USB.

[Karel Jansens]

Look at the popularity of Penguinbait's KDE mod. People don't care about environments specially designed for small screens; people want to get stuff done, stuff they cannot do with the Itablets, because of that specially designed interface.

And for "specially", read "clumsily", because it is far from optimized for handheld use.

"Paradigm shift", my rectum. Nokia was just too lazy to develop decent software for the thing.

[dan]

I said "full usb support" in my first sentence. I don't think I have to restate completely what I mentioned in the same paragragh because it relates to what I was speaking about. You took it out context. Please read more carefully before attacking someone's comments. Your forgiven.

I'm tired of having to do software and hardware mod's to do what should have been done when it was first brought out. It's crazy. It's like making a phone and not being able to make calls because they didn't think that feature would matter. I buy an internet tablet with a usb I expect to able to use that usb entirely. It's a great product I just want all the features I paid for. :)

[dan]

Karel I agree with you on people wanting to get things done. I originally bought it for video and audio and internet on my downtime.
I think Nokia was so far ahead of the curve that they didn't realize what they had in their hands. I honestly didn't know the power of this little monster until Penguinbait's KDE, Fanoush's dual boot, Mara's usb host, Benson's with the mouse, Rob with Ethernet adapter, etc... It's caught me off guard and from the looks of it quite a few others. What I would like to see Nokia do is realize and prioritize what's needed to fix what they missed and at the same time plan for future technology. This way we early adopters don't feel left out and new users benefit right off the bat. Dan

[GeneralAntilles]

I said "full usb support" in my first sentence.

I guess I still kind of don't see your point. We have full USB support in the form of OTG. You plug something in and it works. :shrug:

[Texrat]

"Paradigm shift", my rectum. Nokia was just too lazy to develop decent software for the thing.

The tablets started as an exploratory project. The program needed to be "killable" if certain technical capabilities and business milestones could not be reasonably met or proved outright unfeasable. That's as far as I can go with those comments.

Come on Karel. Crustiness aside-- I know you're smart enough to know how these things are done. Take it from here. ;)

[dan]

My point General is it should have been in there from day one. The support came from the community not Nokia directly. They built it in, they just didn't activate it. Makes sense only in their minds.

Karel is right about users just wanting to get things done. Ex: I would like to see natively on n800 VNC viewer/server and x11vnc. It's ideal for this platform. When my eyes get tired I turn on the VNC/x11vnc and I get my tablet on my big monitor. When I'm on the road I use VNC server to connect to my office computer and control it as though I was there. Another area I would like to see natively is aircrack ng support. I need to keep an eye on our wifi networks. Nokia could probably sell the n800 by the container boat loads to IT administrators if this feature was added and supported. Remote control feature for home devises. Can you amagine the n8xx being used throughtout your day in the following manner. Alarm wakes me at the hotel. I use the remote to turn on hotel tv. Then make a few phone call to clients, then wirelessly or through ethernet at hotel connect to office computer and then connect to home computer. Send out a few emails, video conference on Skype. Then go to our branch offic eand test out their wireless network. Take a lunchbreak to watch a movie. Then during a break download latest Youtube videos. Upload at end of day to my favorite bit-torrent site. At end of day in hotel put some cool music on and read offline some wiki stuff or CIA factbook or have the book read to me. Now I can do most of that now, but it's been a horribly difficult learning experience. Hope this explains my position and what as a user I'm looking for. Now what I truly think is amazing above all that is that Nokia had the wisdom to use open source and support it. One company could not have come up with all this by itself. :) Dan

[GeneralAntilles]

My point General is it should have been in there from day one. The support came from the community not Nokia directly. They built it in, they just didn't activate it. Makes sense only in their minds.


Well, they really couldn't have supported it officially for the N800 as OTG is kind of out of spec for MiniUSB (besides the fact that support wasn't finished for OS2007), and the N810 supported OTG out of the box from day one.

I still fail to see your point.

[spartanNTX]

The tablets started as an exploratory project. The program needed to be "killable" if certain technical capabilities and business milestones could not be reasonably met or proved outright unfeasable. That's as far as I can go with those comments.

Come on Karel. Crustiness aside-- I know you're smart enough to know how these things are done. Take it from here. ;)

Does your "started" comment imply that the milestones have been met and that more emphasis is being placed on n8x0 SW development internally?

[dan]

My question to you Texrat is, Does Nokia realize now what they have and are they willing to continue to go the open source route. The reports of bringing in MS and Sprint make me sick because those companies are as far as you can get from open source. We caught both MS and Sprint sending back data they had mined from our systems. Our lawyers quickily put an end to that. To be safe we terminated all hardware and software with them. Did the same with MAC last year. It's crazy what these companies are allowed to do. The NSA can't even do half the stuff these companies do.

I read an interesting article a few weeks ago that phone manufactures were looking to do what Apple did with iphone because Apple makes so much additional revenues from exclusive revenue sharing deals with companies like AT&T in US.
I'm not paranoid I just really like this platform and hate to see it destroyed because of outside partnerships. Dan

[GeneralAntilles]

My question to you Texrat is, Does Nokia realize now what they have and are they willing to continue to go the open source route. The reports of bringing in MS and Sprint make me sick because those companies are as far as you can get from open source. We caught both MS and Sprint sending back data they had mined from our systems. Our lawyers quickily put an end to that. To be safe we terminated all hardware and software with them. Did the same with MAC last year. It's crazy what these companies are allowed to do. The NSA can't even do half the stuff these companies do.


lul wut? <_<

In response to the first part, Nokia isn't stupid, they just move a lot more slowly in these things than most open source efforts.

[dan]

SpartanNTX, I think it does because they bought that software company that helps with KDE development. The team from Canola is funded by Nokia also. I think they are realizing they need more strength in software development. Hopefully they will keep it all open sourced. Dan

[Texrat]

Most of the doubters second-guessing Nokia are wrong. People involved with the tablet program are very aware of the concerns expressed (I do my best to help there) here and elsewhere. But there are complexities to any new program that just flat cannot be discussed publicly by most of us, although you guys are free to and you'd do well to listen to those outside Nokia who have been involved in consumer products. To a large extent, what happens inside one producer happens inside another.

Nokia is supporting these tablets in so many ways and on so many levels, but that involves walking a tightrope.

If we controlled every aspect, then those wanting an open platform would be sorely disappointed.

If we had opened it wide at the beginning, we would have been depending on an ecosystem that did not yet exist.

Nokia wanted to create something as analogous to the PC market as possible and practical in a mobile device context. Yes, there is risk in that but for the brave consumer there is significant reward.

The problem is that too many of you are impatient, or want the tablet to address a narrow niche. The latter is just flat not gonna happen. That's not the market being currently pursued.

Some want to compare the tablets to Apple products, but consider: Apple has at best 15% of the PC market. The remainder is an incredibly open ecosystem supporting myriad operating systems and configurations. I realize there are diehard Mac fans here, and they have their justifications for Apple's narrow approach, but I'm a committed PC guy. I build my own. I install what I want. I create my own software. I don't want Apple's contraints.

I want an open platform.

That's where we (to a significant extent) are with the tablets now. And yes, that means Nokia will provide the basics but our hope has always been to cultivate a powerful community of amazing developers. That exists now. So fault Nokia for coming up short in the hand-holding department if you will, but if I had to pick a poison, I'll take open and unexplored every day over confined and overly obvious.

It remains to be seen how many average consumers feel likewise. We won't make everyone happy. But then, I go back to that personal computer percentage: 15% nanny company handholding, 85% wonderfully mixed and open (and yes, often scary) bag. So... what has the market chosen?

[GeneralAntilles]

It remains to be seen how many average consumers feel likewise. We won't make everyone happy. But then, I go back to that personal computer percentage: 15% nanny company handholding, 85% wonderfully mixed and open (and yes, often scary) bag. So... what has the market chosen?

Speaking as a Mac user, your Apple analogy fails miserably. Aren't you a Windows user, anyway? :p

Anyway, I agree with the spirit of what you said. :p

[Texrat]

Speaking as a Mac user, your Apple analogy fails miserably. Aren't you a Windows user, anyway? :p

Anyway, I agree with the spirit of what you said. :p

I knew you'd come back with that... but I say the analogy has merit... Mackie. :p