Are all third-party osso-xterm projects dead ?

[fpp]

In the early 770 and N800 days, with OS2005, 2006 and 2007, the tablets came without a terminal applet by default. Users who wanted one had to download it and install it, then fight to become root, etc.

The "osso-xterm" made available by the maemo team was barebones, but open, and it was heartily hacked by the community. There was a flurry of variants available over the last two years : tabs, command-line parameters (to launch scripts), color output... I think there even was a transparent one at some point. The latest versions were quite useful, especially the nice configurable sidebar for special keys and combos.

Then OS2008 came out, and behold, osso-xterm as bundled out of the box... only, instead of bundling the existing one, Nokia went and made their own version that's not nearly as good.

For starters, it doesn't even close properly. Nor does it open properly when launching a script as a parameter (two windows, etc.). The sidebar has become a bottom bar, wasting precious vertical space and not as easy to customize nor as versatile as the old one (eg for "screen" commands)... and even on a N810, it doesn't give much more screen real estate than on a 770/N800 with the virtual keyboard, because of all the space wasted by useless status bars.

(also, the shell doesn't understand the "clear" command anymore, but I guess that isn't xterm's fault :-)

When I fist saw that mess, I thought "boy, this is gonna get replaced by something more reasonable real fast !"... but it's been months, and if such a replacement exists, I certainly haven't found it...

I'm surprised no one has been irritated enough to fix it. Am I missing something obvious, or are all such community projects dead ?


PS: I realize I hadn't created a new thread in *ages*... this new anti-duplicate gizmo is really neat ! :-)

[Benson]

Good point; I think development had stagnated on the existing ones, because they worked. The new one came, and no one really feels like going back and starting over on a dead project to fix it. All the people who'd do that are off running Konsole in KDE ;).
Has anyone tried if any of the old ones still work? I know some Bora software works, but I would expect trouble here.

[GeneralAntilles]

Has anyone tried if any of the old ones still work? I know some Bora software works, but I would expect trouble here.

They're GUI, they wont work. Period.

[Benson]

I guessed it was so. :(
And my favorite, one with a "floating keyboard" for input, never had source posted... I'll have to hunt the author down and threaten to sic the FSF on him if he doesn't port it to OS2008.

[fpp]

Good point; I think development had stagnated on the existing ones, because they worked. The new one came, and no one really feels like going back and starting over on a dead project to fix it. All the people who'd do that are off running Konsole in KDE ;).

Damn, so this is all penguinbait's fault ? :-)

Sad sate of affairs, really...

[b-man]

Even if Maemo is mostly open-sorced I think it's just Nokia worying about software copyright violations so thay limited the app on it's capabilitys.
But i agree, the app really needs improvment.

[GeneralAntilles]

. . . I think it's just Nokia worying about software copyright violations so thay limited the app on it's capabilitys.

Erm, no.

It's Nokia's ******ed UI specs that manage to ruin most of the applications they decide to bundle.

[linux_author]

Then OS2008 came out, and behold, osso-xterm as bundled out of the box... only, instead of bundling the existing one, Nokia went and made their own version that's not nearly as good.

For starters, it doesn't even close properly. Nor does it open properly when launching a script as a parameter (two windows, etc.). The sidebar has become a bottom bar, wasting precious vertical space and not as easy to customize nor as versatile as the old one (eg for "screen" commands)... and even on a N810, it doesn't give much more screen real estate than on a 770/N800 with the virtual keyboard, because of all the space wasted by useless status bars.


+1 - you're not the only one who thinks this about os2008's osso-xterm... it's a *downgrade* over any os2007 version....

<sigh> i can't really complain though... at least it's better than nothing?

(but i would dearly love a true X environment on the NIT, even if we only had rxvt)....

[coffeedrinker]

Erm, no.

It's Nokia's ******ed UI specs that manage to ruin most of the applications they decide to bundle.

LOL

Not to sound like a broken record, but it is no trouble to get a terminal working. The real problem is getting it to work with the Nokia virtual keyboard. Unless the app used gtk you will not get input. So that leaves a lot of terms out right there. You *used* to be able to use xkbd but with OS2008, that is out of the question. Again, this is a maemo design decision. I do understand the reasoning but I really don't like the result.

I can put xkbd right next to hildon input method and it is by far a superior layout (which you can change by editing a text file). I would be happy if nokia's virtual keyboard was so easily manipulated (maybe it is, I couldn't find anything).

I really like my N800, but I find some of the design decisions so frustrating. What gets to me is how much *could* be done but I feel so locked out.

[icebox]

I would like to see a better term for my n800 too. I use term a lot and I would like to see one with a vertical shortcut bar, where I could place more complicated shortcuts. The horizontal bar only eats up valuable screen space.

[fpp]

Exactly : just the one we had before :-)

[fiferboy]

I just build the latest version of osso-xterm from garage on OS2008. The project is here (https://garage.maemo.org/projects/osso-xterm/) and lists "There are at least two different places where a version of osso-xterm is available. This project is combine the effort for improving a very useful tool." as its project summary.

Check out the svn code and build in scratchbox. I don't know what the polite way to act is when a project has a lot of nice code but no files release, but I could upload my debs here temporarily if it will help people who can't build this themselves.

This version of the terminal has the vertical shortcut bar, a less annoying "open two terminals when launching with command" bug (it opens two tabs, and each have the proper shortcut bar), and works with the virtual keyboard.

Hopefully the developers release a version soon so more people can start using it. It looks like lots of good work is going into it.

[qwerty12]

@fiferboy

Please post your deb here :). I can't be bothered to svn it :(

Or PM me.

Actually, I'll try myself. I just hope sb doesn't **** out on me with unsupported syscalls.

[fpp]

+1... it's not that I can't be bothered, I just don't know how :-)

[qwerty12]

Hehe, I can do straight compiling ; it's just when I have to modify code, its impossible for me.

I don't have any bad feelings about releasing a deb but it's that I'm in windows converting some Eastenders episodes so I can't reboot into Linux.
Linux really pisses me about ; all my web downloads are corrupt. :@

[Benson]

A .deb would be nice; can't say about polite thing, but we'd be grateful!

I e-mailed dnastase (author of flying-keyboard xterm) but haven't heard back yet... If he releases a diff, It might apply easily to that.

[Benson]

Just went browsing the SVN web interface; someone (jvaltane) seems to be the only dev working on it since last September; you could e-mail him if you're concerned with being polite.

[fiferboy]

For anyone who wants to try out this version of xterm.

You need (or at least I did) to install ttf-bitstream-vera first (which was available for me through the application manager).

The debs can be found at the following website (since one of the files is 200K bigger than this forums attachment limit):

http://andrew.olmsted.ca/maemo/osso-xterm

Next download and install the debs in the following order: libvte-common, libvte4, osso-xterm

These files should just install overtop of your currently installed files and give you no trouble. I don't know if this will conflict with the osso-software-version package, but it might since the files have a lower version than the stock files. Installing these files could in theory prevent any further upgrading of your software.

[qwerty12]

These files should just install overtop of your currently installed files and give you no trouble. I don't know if this will conflict with the osso-software-version package, but it might since the files have a lower version than the stock files. Installing these files could in theory prevent any further upgrading of your software.

For that, just edit /var/lib/dpkg/status (or version, unsure) and change Version: 0.13.mh25 to Version: 0.14.mh3

Thats just the xterm line, I'll find more for the vte.

Haha, they added in the reverse colour option. I was using a gconf hack with the old one ;)

[Benson]

I'm confused by the versions.

Your deb is version 0.13.mh25
SVN is 0.14.mh11

Am I missing something?

[fpp]

Thanks, I'm going to give it a try !

Is it necessary/preferable to uninstall the stock osso-xterm first ?

I'm glad I raised the subject after all :-)

[qwerty12]

Thanks, I'm going to give it a try !

Is it necessary/preferable to uninstall the stock osso-xterm first ?

I'm glad I raised the subject after all :-)

You cannot remove stock xterm from app manager and I don't think its really recommend to remove it with apt-get. You can install safely over the old one :)

[fiferboy]

Benson, I am confused too. I see in the "tags" subdirectory that mh11 was just tagged. I was working under the assumption that "trunk" contained the newest code that had not yet been tagged. It turns out this is incorrect, ad "tag" mh11 is two hours old and "trunk" is 2 months old. I will put up a new build on the page I linked to before.

Okay, I have put both the newest version (0.14.mh11) and an older version (0.13.mh25). The newest one has a horizontal shortcut bar and no tabs (but undoubtedly some bug fixes) and the older one has a vertical shortcut bar and tabs. Both seem to work fine. Install whichever one you want, but only install one (otherwise the other gets overwritten).

[fpp]

'kay, thanks for the tip !

[Benson]

For anyone trying to decide which one:

The old version (0.13) is the old familiar OS2007 one, as far as I can tell.

The new one (0.14) is like OS2008, but:
The Ctrl button is back how it was (which is friendlier for the HWR, which is iitself friendlier to portrait mode)
Launching apps in xterm still gives 2 windows, but they each have their own toolbar.
Encoding is selectable
Windows close when the shell exits
I like the new one better, but take your pick.

[qwerty12]

Ctrl option seems non-functional in toolbar for both versions I tried. Anyone else with same problem?

With old one, I could go to menu to use ctrl but the new one doesn't have it.

[Jaykie]

Excellent!! This new version finally fixes character encoding for us Nordic ppl when using irssi via ssh :)

[Benson]

Ctrl option seems non-functional in toolbar for both versions I tried. Anyone else with same problem?

With old one, I could go to menu to use ctrl but the new one doesn't have it.

Clicking Ctrl toggles Control on, then input a letter (by hildon-input-method or full-screen keyboard, or even xkbd when it works), and the terminal gets the corresponding control character. This way you don't have to have the keyboard popping up and down like the default one.

[linux_author]

I like the new one better, but take your pick.

- i like the old one better, so kudos to all of you for making this happen!

[does 'Happy Happy Joy Joy' dance]

:-)

[qwerty12]

Clicking Ctrl toggles Control on, then input a letter (by hildon-input-method or full-screen keyboard, or even xkbd when it works), and the terminal gets the corresponding control character. This way you don't have to have the keyboard popping up and down like the default one.

AH!

Thanks :D.

I actually prefer the old one. Granted the vertical sidebar should be moved down but the tabs are useful.

The old one actually closes too when the shell is quit. Plus with personal menu, "launch in xterm" feature, you only have to press X once.

Old one ftw! :P

Plus the old one has a clear option.

[Benson]

Yes, but I'm saying the new one is like the OS2008 one, except (...)
Those are not contrasts to the old one.

And the OS2008 was broken various ways, including failure to close the window when the shell quits.

I don't like the tabs; eat too much screen space. I also don't like the vertical sidebar. (Now that I have rotation; it takes up almost half my screen! ;))

[fpp]

I had to go "red pill" or nothing would install (couldn't even see the vera font).
is this normal ?...

In the old version, the ready made control-something combos don't work (Ctrl-D, Ctrl-C),
only toggling the Ctrl button then hitting a key. This is not like the 2007 xterm...

[fiferboy]

Which version did you install? The one with '13' in the number is like 2007 (as far as I know). You can add CTRL+<key> combo through a setting dialog.

[mooler]

Excellent. I prefer the old one.

[fpp]

Which version did you install? The one with '13' in the number is like 2007 (as far as I know). You can add CTRL+<key> combo through a setting dialog.

Yes, that's the one I installed. The dialog is still there, and the sidebar has Ctrl-D as a preset, but it doesn't do anything. I tried adding Ctrl-C myself, and it appears, but doesn't work either.

It looks as if the new "sticky" nature of the Control button has disabled these combos... am I the only one ?

(no one else reported having to use Red pill mode to install either, but I had to, as the first .deb reported "incompatible application"...)

[chatterbox]

All of the packages report incompatible application package for me as well, I'm running 2.2007.50-2 (OS2008).

[delaroca]

For anyone who wants to try out this version of xterm.

You need (or at least I did) to install ttf-bitstream-vera first (which was available for me through the application manager).

The debs can be found at the following website (since one of the files is 200K bigger than this forums attachment limit):

http://andrew.olmsted.ca/maemo/osso-xterm

Next download and install the debs in the following order: libvte-common, libvte4, osso-xterm


Great! One problem remains: input of <Ctrl><non-alphabetic-char> does not work, ie., Ctrl-a works, but not Ctrl-\. The last time I recall this working correctly was under IT OS 2007 version 4.2007.26-8... do you have any insight if it is a problem in the Osso-Xterm code?

-- Denis

[fiferboy]

Dennis,

I really don't know anything about the code, but it is likely something that can be fixed in the source. Try filing a bug on the garage page:

https://garage.maemo.org/projects/osso-xterm

[Viqsi]

I feel compelled to note that if, like me, you're one of those types who doesn't want the toolbar *at all*, the "new version" here has fixed the toolbar persistence bug (you turn it off, and now it STAYS off).

I am therefore happy.

[Ulysses]

I installed the new version, and put this is my .ashrc, which itself gets invoked by .profile:

gconftool-2 -s /apps/osso/xterm/scrollbar -t bool false

This gets rid of the scrollbar once and for all.

Nice for fullscreen emacs in the terminal.

Ulysses