[KDE] My experience with KDE on the 810

[Delphipgmr]

I have been using KDE now for about a week, and i just wanted to post these observations, i first installed debs, then installed MMC boot.

1) Boot from MMC is about 20% faster than the deb's, its worth doing it that way. also, maemo runs about 20% faster from MMC as well, i think it has to do with the MMC vs ROM speed

2) Speed is good, its not like my quad core desktop, but for 400 mhz, its pretty quick and definatly usable, moreso from MMC.

3) everything works, including video center and maemo-mapper.. no slowdown at all.

4) your tablet is no longer a tablet, its a computer.

the only downside i see is the browser, it would be nice to be able to run at least the minimo built in, konquorer doesnt support flash and some other plugins..

not that im into utube or anything, but there are plenty of sites that use flash out there.

overall, except for the browser, i have no idea why anyone wouldnt use KDE instead of the stock OS.

[kitsu]

Yeah, adding KDE effectively converts your tablet into a fairly competent computer. I've been very impressed by it so far. All it really needs are some tablet specific applets added -> for power, bluetooth, wifi, etc. all the stuff at the top of the screen in the default UI.

[penguinbait]

I really wish some real developers would get onboard with making a KDE version for the tablet. You have to understand I worked at it quite a bit just to get KDE to compile and run. I am not a developer. I am a unix admin, and I can compile software that other people make, but I can not alter it for the most part. I love KDE on the tablet, I love printing from my tablet. I love having a tiny full featured computer in my hands. I really wish we could get some developers onboard so we could get some usefull applets in KDE. The hardware is awesome, we just need some real developers onboard.

Its only about 120 source packages ;)

NOKIA MAEMO KDE ANYONE?????????

[kitsu]

Yeah, I'm not a C/C++ guy so I'm not much help. Maybe we should try to get The KDE community or even the KDE dev team involved? If we could scrape enough people together we could probably buy a couple N800s to send over. A cool device in hand is usually enough to motivate Linux programmers, right?

[tc2007]

Hi
Can you install and run Skype, Firefox and VLC Media player on the KDE desktop?
If yes, then how is the performance?

Thanks.

[Delphipgmr]

skype works (i use it)

firefox - No

VLC - dont know, I just use the one built in with mplayer.

the new videoCenter works perfectly with it too

[Delphipgmr]

the only thing really missing is a GOOD browser (like mozilla)

[PinCushionQueen]

What are you missing from Konqueror that you get from Microb -other than a flash program? Konqueror does a ton of things. You can get YouTube videos with the new MyTube app.

[geneven]

There are a lot of other neato browsers out there that might work. I like one called Skipstone, which I saw in Puppy Linux. It's a Mozilla relative.

[penguinbait]

I think working to get the maemo browser to work under KDE will be the quickest path to success with flash.

The browser starts, but its blank, and the menu is there but does not seem to be working.

I am certain a script could be written to start microb under KDE.

Any ideas anyone?

[qwerty12]

Well, I'm no expert (far from it) but DBUS is used to execute microb AFAIC. Any chance of trying the browser.deskop file under KDE?

[tc2007]

skype works (i use it)

firefox - No

VLC - dont know, I just use the one built in with mplayer.

the new videoCenter works perfectly with it too

How is the video performance using the video player in KDE? Can it play DVD quality movies?

[Delphipgmr]

video performance is great. doesnt skip a beat.

i watch geek brief tv all the time on it (streaming on the internet)

I also tried a downloaded version of spiderman3 (didnt watch the whole thing), but it also ran perfectly

[Delphipgmr]

the biggest thing i miss in konqueror is the flash.

not for youtube, but because alot of sites i go to use it (like our local newspaper website).

[penguinbait]

Well, I'm no expert (far from it) but DBUS is used to execute microb AFAIC. Any chance of trying the browser.deskop file under KDE?

Its more than just DBUS, I think it may be environment, it may also be hildon hooks?

Also maemo-desktop is not running so perhaps it is required?

I would really like to see some hacking done on this. It really would be cool to have microb along with Konq.

[Underscore]

Its more than just DBUS, I think it may be environment, it may also be hildon hooks?

Also maemo-desktop is not running so perhaps it is required?

I would really like to see some hacking done on this. It really would be cool to have microb along with Konq.

This is the only reason I don't use KDE all the time )=
Good luck to you, wish I could help.

[josiahg777]

@Delphipgmr - I couldn't agree more :D KDE is a million times superior to the stock UI :) and since the almighty Penguinbait allowed us to launch canola and other maemo apps inside KDE I almost never use the stock interface. I am totally in awe of how well KDE runs on this little tablet :)

also, my 0.02 on the browser issue... I used to switch back so i could use MicroB, but I've found it's MUCH better to use the beta version of Granparidisio (FF3). It runs amazingly well in the KDE windowing system (much better than in Hildon) and is much faster than MicroB for AJAX heavy sites and general page nav. It's also got full flash (a tiny bit slow but very usable) :)

[Delphipgmr]

where did you get it?

and how did you install it?

[Laughing Man]

Maybe here. http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080409-first-look-mozilla-fennec-targets-handheld-browser-market.html

Though that's for Maemo?. But it seems to crash every few minutes (not optimized yet). I believe it also doesn't have touch screen support yet? Not sure if it's better under KDE.

[josiahg777]

There's a .deb available from the Minefield repository, I don't know how up to date it is, but I was able to run it fine and even install a few themes :)

The build is blogged about here:
http://blog.mozilla.com/blassey/2007/12/17/maemo-repository/

and the repository setup is as follows:

Web address: http://people.mozilla.org/~blassey
Distribution: chinook
Components: extras

Setup this repository in your applications manager (or just download it from gronmayer.com/it, it's near the bottom of the page) and then after refreshing the applications list, you should see "Minefield browser" or something to that effect. Click install (you do not need red pill or anything special) and then to run it, go int "Extras" and look for "Granparadiso Web Browser"

it takes a few seconds to load the first time, so just be patient. Also, the bundled theme seems to be missing the icons for the back/forward/refresh buttons :/ so you should head over to addons.mozilla.com and download a new theme. NASA night launch worked the best for me :)

Happy surfing!

[Delphipgmr]

wroks great!

except i have these really weird fonts.. how do i change them? it doesnt seem to change in preferences

[Laughing Man]

Do you still get the crashing problem (crashes after a few websites or after a few minutes)? Or is that only when your in maemo?

[Delphipgmr]

its much better than in maemo for stability, but its not there yet.

as far as stability, i would rate it:

Maemo=40%
KDE = 70%

so it is substantially better, but definitely not ready for the masses.

[Delphipgmr]

actually, i take that back, its maybe 50-60%. so just slghtly fewer crashes

[qole]

In the face of all the "KDE is way better than Hildon!!!1" boosterism, I just want to be the devil's (or Nokia's) advocate say that I prefer the Hildon environment on the tablet's screen over KDE, and I'm not alone. I must also contend that even without KDE, the NIT is already a fully-capable computer. I don't think the desktop interface is particularly suited to a handheld touchscreen device.

But I completely understand why we need KDE for now. It is a stopgap, a workaround. Hildon's limitations frustrate me, too. There are a lot of Linux apps that we want NOW but aren't hildonized or easily shoehorned into the hildon framework. But I would rather we focus on getting stuff working in Hildon. I would love to see KDE applications hildonized, especially a wordprocessor. I would also like to see printing support added to Hildon.

I think I'm going to do the boot-from-mmc thing, too. I could use the 20% speedup. And yes, I'm sure that it is related to read/write speed of the internal flash vs. the speed of the external cards; they are much faster.

I have one question, though. Why KDE and not Gnome? The Hildon environment is Gnome-based, wouldn't a Gnome desktop have been a more compatible choice?

[Makurosu]

I have one question, though. Why KDE and not Gnome? The Hildon environment is Gnome-based, wouldn't a Gnome desktop have been a more compatible choice?

I've read that Gnome is difficult to set up to build from source. There is an XFCE project for Maemo though.

[PinCushionQueen]

For me on my N810, the Hildon desktop would have to come an awful long way to meeting the needs that KDE fills.

1) Using the keyboard and hardware buttons, I can very easily assign keys or combinations of keys to do just about anything I want. I can launch apps, I can change volume/next & prev track for xmms, I can browse the web and check my email without having to touch my stylus or smudge my screen using my finger. These are just a few examples - there are many more if you consider that I can also do app specific key assignments. Unfortunately for N800 users this feature's real power requires a keyboard.

2)with KDE I can resize windows and move them around the screen such that I can see multiple windows at once.

3) I know that some have complained about Konqueror - but I love the fact that it's a web browser and file manager built into one. It also has tabbed browsing and can open pdf docs without needing to open another app.

4) KDE is fully customizable eg: layouts, colors, fonts etc... without me needing to be able to write code to do it. It's just there in the GUI. I can freely and easily decide what I want and where and what I want to call it and which icon to use.

I know that maemo is slowing but surely getting apps ported for PIMs and Wordprocessing but KDE does soooo much more. Maybe it's just because I've been using KDE exclusively for ~ 4 months now, but everytime I go into Maemo, It feels well... kinda clunky.

There's my $.02 worth - hope no one takes offense because none was intended.

[qole]

Using the keyboard... without having to touch my stylus or smudge my screen using my finger... Unfortunately for N800 users this feature's real power requires a keyboard... with KDE I can resize windows and move them around the screen such that I can see multiple windows at once...

Yes, those are all nice things... for a desktop computer, which has a full keyboard, mouse, and one or more 17+" non-touch screen(s). I've got several of those, and I use all that stuff constantly on them.

The whole design aesthetic of the N8x0 is focussed on the touch screen. It is bizarre to say that you don't want to "smudge" your screen; that's the whole point of the tablet! The tiny, squishy keyboard on the N810 wasn't intended for "keyboard shortcuts" either. A windowing interface is great when you have lots of real-estate to spread the windows out on, but boy, it gets busy in a hurry on the tablet's screen.


I know that maemo is slowing but surely getting apps ported for PIMs and Wordprocessing but KDE does soooo much more. Maybe it's just because I've been using KDE exclusively for ~ 4 months now, but everytime I go into Maemo, It feels well... kinda clunky.


I agree with both statements.
1) KDE does have more apps ported for it right now, because "hildonizing" the apps is a real pain for developers. It's a completely different interface and it can take quite a bit of hacking to get a complex app (like a word processor) to "fit" the new "form factor". So KDE is a good stop-gap, a way to get the tough apps running with a simple re-compile. But, hopefully, they'll come over, slowly but surely, to the new interface.

2) Hildon is still a bit clunky and rough around the edges. Like the hardware it runs on, it is a new way of doing things, and it can take some time to get the wrinkles ironed out. But I think it is definitely the way of the future, it just has some growing pains to go through on its way.

There's my $.02 worth - hope no one takes offense because none was intended.

None taken, and I hope I'm not bugging you too much either. I'm just trying to explain my view that a desktop environment on a handheld touchscreen tablet is not necessarily the best option. Everything in its place!

[drizek]

I have one question, though. Why KDE and not Gnome? The Hildon environment is Gnome-based, wouldn't a Gnome desktop have been a more compatible choice?

1. Because Gnome sucks :p

2. Because it makes no difference at all what Hildon is done in, you would have to reimplement everything anyway.

3. Because, as was mentioned, gnome is really hard to package.

4. Because KDE includes just about every app you could ever want out of the box.

5. Because Gnome eats 128mb of ram for breakfast. This is probably the biggest one. Gnome will be really slow on the ITT.

[sleepkyng]

my newbie 2 cents:
hildon sounds great in theory - but having nokia and their vision rammed down my throat is getting tiring. i know what they "want me to want" but that's not what i want :)
apple's greatest stroke of genius is designing an item based on consumer needs and ideas - that's why the iphone is selling like hotcakes - it does 10 things really well and can't do anything else.
if the NITs are supposed to be the opposite - flexible, able to handle any user need or direction, why isn't the environment setup to handle that?
there's a real lack of vision with the n8x0 series - is it finger tap based or stylus based?
seems to depend on the app released - since it's mostly community based, you're going to have a patchwork realisation of each app - so some like canola will really hit on the "tablet on-the-go" idea and be finger tap based, while others you couldn't ever solely use your finger.
as it stands, the n8x0 does a lot of things sort of well, and nothing really fantastically -
I'm going to try (again) to load kde onto my n800 this weekend and see if it will do a handful of things fantastically.
keep in mind that i truly believe the n8x0 series is phenomenal - the very fact that i "could" put kde on there is enough of a selling point for me.

[PinCushionQueen]

Yes, those are all nice things... for a desktop computer, which has a full keyboard, mouse, and one or more 17+" non-touch screen(s). I've got several of those, and I use all that stuff constantly on them.

The whole design aesthetic of the N8x0 is focussed on the touch screen. It is bizarre to say that you don't want to "smudge" your screen; that's the whole point of the tablet! The tiny, squishy keyboard on the N810 wasn't intended for "keyboard shortcuts" either. A windowing interface is great when you have lots of real-estate to spread the windows out on, but boy, it gets busy in a hurry on the tablet's screen.


Ok I guess this is where we totally disagree. I think that the N810 keyboard WAS made for keyboard shortcuts - it certainly wasn't made for typing long letters. Pressing one key or Ctrl+key is so quick and easy - or is it just because I'm a girl and my fingers are smaller?:rolleyes:

And it's not so much that I don't want to smudge my screen (although that does bug me :o ) it's really more that I don't want to have to go back and forth. I could just use the stylus all the time I suppose and sometimes I do - I just like having the choice. Sometimes it's difficult to accurately tap the screen when I'm riding the bus and it's jostling me.

Before my N810 I used a Palm TX - one very active thread on 1src was for software to allow the user to hack the TX and use the 4 little buttons for multiple tasks. Even in the Palm arena users were wanting to do more with the buttons and less with the stylus. Now I've got ~50 + buttons that I can use do things.

Hildon is not fully finger friendly - it's kinda hit or miss on whether it works or not. I guess if I really wanted to use my fingers to control everything - I'd go get an iPhone ;) but then of course I'd loose even more.

[GeneralAntilles]

2)with KDE I can resize windows and move them around the screen such that I can see multiple windows at once.

No overlapping windows and non-resizable windows is a feature of Matchbox. Moving and resizing is just a PITA with a stylus.

[TA-t3]

The whole design aesthetic of the N8x0 is focussed on the touch screen. It is bizarre to say that you don't want to "smudge" your screen; that's the whole point of the tablet! This I have to completely disagree with, seen from my personal point of view: The point of a touch screen isn't to be touched by fingers specifically. To me it's for using with a stylus, and using fingers is a last resort, nothing else (I occasionally do the single tap with a nail but I _hate_ touching screens of any kind with fingers, and I _hate_ it when people go fingering _my_ screens and displays).

So in short, what I take issue with is the implied claim that touch screens are for use with fingers: They are as much for use with a stylus, and what you end up using is simply a matter of personal preference.

[qole]

... I _hate_ it when people go fingering _my_ screens and displays...

:D Hahaha when you put it that way, it sounds kinda dirty... :D

I have a little squirty bottle and a nice soft screen-cleaning rag. I use it a lot, but hey.

I lost my styluses for a couple of months, and recently, a very nice guy on Craigslist mailed me a new one for free. So I've been using anything that comes to hand (fingers, pencils, pens, etc) for a long time. I keep forgetting that I have a real stylus again.