What is your religion?

[penguinbait]

I recently read an article talking about the UK census. Basically after asking the population what religion they were, many people answered jedi or jedi knight. In fact 390,127 people or .7% of the population

Here is a wiki taking about it
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jedi_census_phenomenon

Anyway, so I figured I would ask ITT users, whats your religion?, I added option 8

[Thesandlord]

"Jedi" is a true religion. Seriously, its very similar to many Asian religions like Confucianism and Buddhism.

[GeneralAntilles]

What, Atheism isn't a valid religion?

Note, I gotta keep up appearances and give penguinbait **** for something for every pole he puts up. Still "Humanist" might be a useful option. :P

[lcuk]

Actually, worshipping the GPS sungod (holding aloft a mighty n810) is how I spend my Sundays.

I don't quite know what the religion is called though ;)

[geneven]

I'm a very devout atheist.

[penguinbait]

What, Atheism isn't a valid religion?

Note, I gotta keep up appearances and give penguinbait **** for something for every pole he puts up. Still "Humanist" might be a useful option. :P

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism
Atheism, as an explicit position, can be either the affirmation of the nonexistence of gods, or the rejection of theism. It is also defined more broadly as an absence of belief in deities, or nontheism.

Wouldn't "No Religion" cover Atheism?

I, like GA, like to stir the pot :)

[Aisu]

Linux comes before all other gods, of course! Other than that... atheist here.

[callanish]

I'm a big believer in advanced life genetically engineered interventionism. a.k.a E.T's having a hand with mankind's missing link, so put me in the agnostic category, but with an educated pretty good hunch.

[sondjata]

Mine is not listed.

[GeneralAntilles]

Wouldn't "No Religion" cover Atheism?


Yes it would, I'm mostly poking fun at the religious types that try to paint atheism as some kind of belief system (like, say Satanism :D). Forgot the ":p", though. ;)

[steelmaverick]

Actually, worshipping the GPS sungod (holding aloft a mighty n810) is how I spend my Sundays.

I don't quite know what the religion is called though ;)

I think its called "Eneight-tenism"

I follow "Eneight-hundredism"

Seriously, more people vote for Linux. Its lagging behind.

Linux must surpass christianity!

[deeteroderdas]

I'm a very devout atheist.

I admire your faith!:p

I am not religious...

But I am a Christian.

(And yes, there's a difference.)

[steelmaverick]

Vote linux for best religion. Ever.

[penguinbait]

I should have included Rock n Roll, we need more then 10 poll options :)

[lcuk]

I should have included Rock n Roll, we need more then 10 poll options :)

Yes, you also missed the cowboyneal option :)

[blackdog]

Reformed evangelical druid.

[allnameswereout]

A religion is basically a large cult. In history, the world religion is relatively new. You can also find that principle back in the word 'culture'.

Atheism is a belief system (religion). Believing in nothing is a belief. Some atheists are, with at core their ism, as scary as a christian or muslim fundi.

My religion is discordianism.

And for those fellows who never understood communism: look up the words 'community' and 'kolchoz'.

Suggestion:

$ mv religion/* cult/* ism/
$ rmdir religion cult

..and allow any person to define various isms.

[omegaone37]

Its none of your Allah Damn Business!!!

Omega

[Scarflash]

I am not religious...

But I am a Christian.
(And yes, there's a difference.)

haha soo true...

i am not religious

But I am a Hindu

[geneven]

There's something quite different about atheism from a normal belief system. I doubt if many people have said that their life was saved once they became atheists. As far as I know, there is not a Ten Commandments of Atheism. Unless you think that the belief system connected with atheism is science. I could go for that.

[allnameswereout]

Some scientists hold quite religious beliefs. Some are even zealots. Some people who were scientologist and became atheist are quite happy with their new religion. The thing with atheism is that its often posed as some kind of anti-religion; it isn't; not necessarily. Also, there are various forms of atheism. From strong atheism to agnosticism. One could argue: atheism is a vague definition. Well, so are other religions. There are so many sub-religions in christianity...

[itschy]

Please somebody explain to me how beeing christian goes along with beeing not religious!?
If you mean beeing baptised but not believing, than you are not christian in my POV. Why should I call myself "duned" just because someone threw sand in my face when I was a baby if it doesn't mean anything to me!?

edit: also, "scientist" and "scientologist" have nothing in common!

[debernardis]

When I talk with a believer, I feel an atheist. When I'm alone, I'm an agnostic. I was educated in a christian catholic school, and look at the results! :-)

[pycage]

I am positively surprised by the amount of atheism/no religion here. I'm an atheist myself, although one interested in religious stuff (from a historic/scientific point of view). I have read the bible, some parts of the Koran, the satanic bible, and other stuff such as excellent works from the 19th and early 20th century.

[Peet]

Funny, because in public (or rather in the presence of friend(s) who carry some form of religious background) I am respectfully agnostic while in private I am simply an atheist.

That said, although I have no reason to believe in supernatural forces I am kind of interested in some aspects of Buddhist philosophy (which in its original form didn't actually incorporate gods or deities).

The scientific approach to understanding the human mind, emphasis on virtues such as kindness and non-violence and the willingness to change their religious views if science proves their past beliefs to be misguided are IMO quite respectable approaches.

The original form of Taoism is also quite interesting, but unfortunately it has been reduced to being organized superstition revolving around animism and ancestor-worshipping.

Still, intolerant atheism as part of State Religion -- such as operated by the Chinese Communist system (especially in neighbouring countries under Chinese rule), or previously used by the Third reich and the Soviets -- is worse than the most intolerant of religions since State Atheism tends to forego the basic moral justice at the foundation of any theistic religion...

[pycage]

The 3rd Reich tried to establish a mix of Christianity and norse religion (together with Asian elements such as the swastika symbol) in order to reach the masses. I don't consider this atheism. The leaders might have been atheistic but they used religion as a tool for their cruel plan. Antisemitism was deeply rooted in (European) Christianity at that time.

I would consider "intolerant atheism" a form of religion, because it is based on an ideology which claims to hold the truth. Hence the intolerance. The claim of truth is a fundamental problem of many (all?) religions, IMHO. People tend to fight for their truth. Thus they fight for religion. This could be some form of animal survival instict and fear.

[Un27Pee]

wouldn't it solve many problems if we had only one.

[Texrat]

Yes it would, I'm mostly poking fun at the religious types that try to paint atheism as some kind of belief system (like, say Satanism :D). Forgot the ":p", though. ;)

Actually it doesn't. Atheism IS a belief system: the belief that there is no God.

I don't think it's possible for anyone to be religion-free, given what can constitute religious belief (it's very broad).

edit: also, "scientist" and "scientologist" have nothing in common!

I don't see where anyone suggested they do. I think you may have misunderstood allname's post.

However, scientists DO get religious about their beliefs/theories... again, religion can have broad connotations.

[smog]

Born Christian, now atheist but I don't botter other people about it

[tso]

meh, while have grown up i a nation with a core of christianity, i silently cheer on the work to make it atheist.

beyond that im under the impression that if a god exist, the entty is at best mildly aware that we exist, as some kind of "bacteria" on a dust speck insde of a much larger experiment.

btw, the poll do not show when using the minimalist theme...

[itschy]

wouldn't it solve many problems if we had only one.

That is by definition impossible. At least in the way the term "religion" is usually used.
Because while no religious advocate can proof that his way of believing how things are is the only correct one, there will be other opinions. And valid ones, too.
However, if god/allah/spaghetti monster/invisible pink unicorn actually decends and claim their "right", it wouldn't be faith anymore, it would be fact. :)

[lcuk]

it wouldn't be faith anymore, it would be fact. :)

You think something like FACTS are gonna stand in the way?

Even people viewing things with their own eyes have trouble believing them sometimes.

Unless the god was infact omnipotent and able to slap every nonbeliever into submission it will continue.

[TA-t3]

I've never understood this argument:

Actually it doesn't. Atheism IS a belief system: the belief that there is no God.

It doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Speaking for myself, I can't grasp the concept of a belief system to start with: I don't have the gene that makes it possible. I don't run around "believing", as in faith, this or that.

It has been argued elsewhere that saying that atheism is a belief system is as when someone asks 'what kind of stamps do you collect', and, when the answer is 'I don't collect stamps', stating that this is also some kind of stamp collecting. And I agree with that analogy, it's certainly the only analogy that makes sense to me about the whole "atheism is a belief system" (or as some says: "Atheism is your religion" ) argument.

But I've also understood that the question of "Atheism" vs. "Religion" is something hugely different in the US compared to, e.g, northern Europe. Being an atheist in the US is apparently a big deal, something that people care about. Around here it's instead like, say, owning a grey-blue jacket. It's not something you think about very much, it's certainly not something you go preaching about, but if someone asks you will know what to answer.

[deeteroderdas]

Please somebody explain to me how beeing christian goes along with beeing not religious!?
If you mean beeing baptised but not believing, than you are not christian in my POV. Why should I call myself "duned" just because someone threw sand in my face when I was a baby if it doesn't mean anything to me!?

edit: also, "scientist" and "scientologist" have nothing in common!

I'll give it a shot.

"Religion" in the strictest sense of the word is adhering (or attempting to adhere) to a set of guidelines, rules, commandments to please a deity well enough that the deity rewards you in some way.

BTW, I used to believe that atheism was a religion, but I've since decided to redefine it (if only in my mind) as a "belief system". To be absolutely certain that there is no God, one would have to be all-knowing, and all-present. In short, a god himself. Since no man is all-knowing or all-present, he cannot, by definition argue against the existence of God. People who state they are atheists do still worship a god, of sorts: themselves or their intellect.

Being a Christian means admitting, both to yourself and to God, that there's no way possible for you to ever be good enough to be acceptable. You just can't. But, you also accept that God's Son, Jesus, came to Earth, lived a perfect and sinless life, and then took the punishment reserved for you upon himself. By accepting this perfect sacrifice, you become acceptable to God.

It's really that simple. Christians should do their best to live good lives, improving themselves and helping others, but knowing that that alone does not get them into Heaven.

Everyone has a God-shaped hole in their lives. This hole needs to be filled with something. Most fill it with material things: alcohol, drugs, sex, intellectual pursuits. None of those quite fit, though, and we're left with an empty feeling. Only the Being for which the hole was designed can fill it properly.

[lcuk]

One question:

does god have an internet tablet, and has he managed to get a GPS lock yet?

[pycage]

Unless the god was infact omnipotent and able to slap every nonbeliever into submission it will continue.

Nope, this can be disproved by logic. :)
If god was omnipotent, he could create a rock that he cannot lift. But if he cannot lift the rock, he is not omnipotent.
Don't take it too seriously, though.

[pycage]

One question:

does god have an internet tablet, and has he managed to get a GPS lock yet?

God is everywhere. What would his GPS location be? :D

[lcuk]

he could create a rock that he cannot lift. But if he cannot lift the rock, he is not omnipotent.


He does not need to lift the rock, he simply lowers the earth :)

[pycage]

Oh, he's cheating to create the illusion of omnipotence. Not bad. Really clever. :)

[fatalsaint]

I consider myself an agnostic.

Typically speaking you can't be "just" agnostic.. since that simply means "without knowledge".. normally you would be an Agnostic Theist, or an Agnostic Atheist... stemming from whether you do (theist) or don't (atheist) believe in a higher power.. but admit that the belief can't be proven..

But in my case... I not only understand that the existence of such a thing cannot be proven; but I also simply don't care whether there's some masterful paternal figure shaking his finger at me.

So; I'm about as truly agnostic as one could be. If there's a God.. I'll die - and see what happens - if he doesn't want me; well - I don't wanna be part of his crew either. If there isn't.. I'll die; and have lived how I wanted.

Of course.. none of the above applies to the great Linux God. I am a devout... Linuxist.

[tso]

But I've also understood that the question of "Atheism" vs. "Religion" is something hugely different in the US compared to, e.g, northern Europe. Being an atheist in the US is apparently a big deal, something that people care about. Around here it's instead like, say, owning a grey-blue jacket. It's not something you think about very much, it's certainly not something you go preaching about, but if someone asks you will know what to answer.

i ones read something about god being seen as a close friend by christians in usa, while in most of europe he is seens as at best a distant trickster...

[tso]

Everyone has a God-shaped hole in their lives. This hole needs to be filled with something. Most fill it with material things: alcohol, drugs, sex, intellectual pursuits. None of those quite fit, though, and we're left with an empty feeling. Only the Being for which the hole was designed can fill it properly.

i would say that hole is more parent-figure shaped then god-shaped.

we go some 15 years without having to take responsibility for our own actions, instead thats our parents duty.

but when the time comes for this to change, it can be a big jump. as such it can be mentally beneficial to have a kind of omnipresent parent that will always be there for guidance, comfort and the required corrections.

[TA-t3]

As to the 'Everyone has a God-shaped hole in their lives' argument. Unless that was meant as a joke, I say: Bollocks.

[fatalsaint]

As for my God-Shaped hole... it's happily filled with something called a wife.. and a family... and a life.

If your wife isn't filling whatever hole in your life.. chances are you probably aren't filling the right hole(s) for her either ;) :p

[Karel Jansens]

"Christian Buddhist" isn't on the list.

Nor is "anti-Islam", for that matter.

[nef919]

I'm a festivian. Festivus for the rest of us! lol

[sjgadsby]

"Christian Buddhist" isn't on the list.

Neither is "Frisbeetarian".

[penguinbait]

"Christian Buddhist" isn't on the list.

Nor is "anti-Islam", for that matter.

Perhaps I should not be stirring this pot, but why should "Anti-Islam" be a religion?

Christians, Jews and Muslims all worship the same God. The God of Abraham. If it were to be added, souldn't it be "Anti-Judaism-Christian-Islam" or "Anti-Abrahamic"

I think what actually would fit better is "Anti-extremism" which would not single out entire religions. I personally think Christian extremism is just as if not more dangerous than Islamic extremism.

Can't we all just get along?

[fatalsaint]

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:4zoCkOLVo2qhFM:http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g17/KoRnFreak87/coexist-1.jpg

[itschy]

If there's a God.. I'll die - and see what happens - if he doesn't want me; well - I don't wanna be part of his crew either. If there isn't.. I'll die; and have lived how I wanted.


This is exatly how I see it! Never heart it beeing expressed by someone else in the exact same words I like to explain it in. ;-)
Cheers!

[itschy]

I'll give it a shot.

"Religion" in the strictest sense of the word is adhering (or attempting to adhere) to a set of guidelines, rules, commandments to please a deity well enough that the deity rewards you in some way.

BTW, I used to believe that atheism was a religion, but I've since decided to redefine it (if only in my mind) as a "belief system". To be absolutely certain that there is no God, one would have to be all-knowing, and all-present. In short, a god himself. Since no man is all-knowing or all-present, he cannot, by definition argue against the existence of God. People who state they are atheists do still worship a god, of sorts: themselves or their intellect.

Being a Christian means admitting, both to yourself and to God, that there's no way possible for you to ever be good enough to be acceptable. You just can't. But, you also accept that God's Son, Jesus, came to Earth, lived a perfect and sinless life, and then took the punishment reserved for you upon himself. By accepting this perfect sacrifice, you become acceptable to God.

It's really that simple. Christians should do their best to live good lives, improving themselves and helping others, but knowing that that alone does not get them into Heaven.

Everyone has a God-shaped hole in their lives. This hole needs to be filled with something. Most fill it with material things: alcohol, drugs, sex, intellectual pursuits. None of those quite fit, though, and we're left with an empty feeling. Only the Being for which the hole was designed can fill it properly.

Uh, eh?
So how can one be christian without religious, again?

[LordFu]

I prefer the term irreligious, since athiest in the U.S. have begun to proselytize as bad as any Mormon or Jehovah's Witness I've ever met.

Wtf, guys? Seriously... "Be careful when you fight the monsters, lest you become one."

[GeneralAntilles]

But I've also understood that the question of "Atheism" vs. "Religion" is something hugely different in the US compared to, e.g, northern Europe. Being an atheist in the US is apparently a big deal, something that people care about. Around here it's instead like, say, owning a grey-blue jacket. It's not something you think about very much, it's certainly not something you go preaching about, but if someone asks you will know what to answer.

Not nearly as much as you've been led to believe. As always (this pretty much applies to all those truisms you've heard about the US), the US is a big place, and generalizations about it like the one above aren't particularly useful for understanding it.

Sure, there are some parts of the US where your religious views (or anti-religious) are disproportionately important to people, but these places are generally not medium or large-sized cities and aren't really as common as some people seem to believe.

The odd thing about people calling atheism a "belief system" is that, for me, religion does not play any sort of meaningful role in my life. Other than occasionally being harassed by one of the crazier fundamentalist types or finding little Jesus pamphlets stuffed in among the metaphysical books at my old job, I just don't give a damn about religion or god. It's not really so much that I actively disbelieve, as that I actively just don't give a damn.

Religion is not important to me, and god is not important to me. TA-t3's analogy about stamp collecting is quite apt here.

[fatalsaint]

Sure, there are some parts of the US where your religious views (or anti-religious) are disproportionately important to people, but these places are generally not medium or large-sized cities and aren't really as common as some people seem to believe.


I'll throw an exception in there. Salt Lake City... or really the entire state of Utah. I grew up as a mormon but have since disowned it.. and through school when kids would find out I'm not mormon they'd look at me as some kind of plague.

Growing up I find that a bunch of my "mormon" friends, or so I thought, would be friends for a short time trying to get me to "go" to church.. when they realized this wasn't going to happen - they simply stopped calling.

That isn't to say anything negative about Mormon's as a whole.. it's just that this state is so heavily filled with them that being anything but can really teach a guy to be severely pissed about all things religious. ( I spent a number of my teen years angrily arguing with everyone I could just to get a rise out of them and push their belief's. I've calmed down a bit since the Navy and realized it wasn't the "standard" ).

[tso]

hmm, now im reminded of a youtube video or similar where two scientists answer questions from callers, and get a guy on the phone that wants to talk about creation.

this goes one quite calmly for maybe 10 mins, with things going back and forth but the scientists having the better arguments.

then the guy goes noticeably silent, suddenly yelling all kinds of profanity at them before hanging up...

[itschy]

Not nearly as much as you've been led to believe. As always (this pretty much applies to all those truisms you've heard about the US), the US is a big place, and generalizations about it like the one above aren't particularly useful for understanding it.

I surely agree when it comes to individual people.
But what really scares me is the amount of phrases like "gods own country", "god wants us to..." and so on that are used in a supposedly non-religious context, mostly politics. Especially the republican speeches and press releases are filled with these. Over here someone who claims he is chosen by god and knows what "his" will is, might be considered a dangerous fanatic. In the US such agitators get voted for by a huge percentage and not only despite they say things like that, but because they do.
That really scares me!

[tso]

as a outsider i have gotten the impression that the so-called "bible belt" has a lot to say about the outcome of presidential elections.

and it seems the while most of europe have a continual struggle to get religion out of government, usa have one to keep religion out.

btw, i also heard that the least wanted us president would be one who was a declared atheist. even a radical muslim would be more accepted...

[pycage]

Considering the fact that the founding fathers of the United States where mostly atheists or deists and did their best to keep religion out of the government, it's really sad to see how it ended today. IIRC, the motto "in god we trust" became the official motto in 1956.

"this would be the best of all possible worlds, if there was no religion in it." -- Thomas Jefferson

[Karel Jansens]

Perhaps I should not be stirring this pot, but why should "Anti-Islam" be a religion?

Christians, Jews and Muslims all worship the same God. The God of Abraham. If it were to be added, souldn't it be "Anti-Judaism-Christian-Islam" or "Anti-Abrahamic"

I think what actually would fit better is "Anti-extremism" which would not single out entire religions. I personally think Christian extremism is just as if not more dangerous than Islamic extremism.

Can't we all just get along?
Christian extremists are trying to bring back the Dark Ages.
Muslim extremists are trying to get into the twenty first century.

Christian extremists are frowned upon by mainstream Christians.
Muslim extremists are culled by mainstream muslims.

The problem with "getting along" is that it doesn't work very well if one side is convinced that "getting along" equals to you sticking your *rse in the air five times a day, lest you get knifed like a swine.

The only good muslim is an ex-muslim.

[jakemaheu]

When I say this, I am dead serious: I'm a Pastafarian.

Yes, I worship the Flying Spaghetti Monster and was converted from Atheism.

I have a couple problems at my high school, though. I told a friend about the Gospel, and he began cursing at me, claiming that there's no proof that he exists and you can't believe in something that's invisible.

As another Pastafarian friend put it, "You're fighting an uphill battle. Some people just don't see the irony in the situation."

I lol'd.

[allnameswereout]

I'll give it a shot.

"Religion" in the strictest sense of the word is adhering (or attempting to adhere) to a set of guidelines, rules, commandments to please a deity well enough that the deity rewards you in some way.Good point.

BTW, I used to believe that atheism was a religion, but I've since decided to redefine it (if only in my mind) as a "belief system". To be absolutely certain that there is no God, one would have to be all-knowing, and all-present.There is a difference between a strong atheist and a weak atheist.

Just like there are die-hard <fill in followers or a (sub-)religion> (e.g. Baptists).

In short, a god himself.You assume there is a god.

[allnameswereout]

The original form of Taoism is also quite interesting, but unfortunately it has been reduced to being organized superstition revolving around animism and ancestor-worshipping.Yes, that happened with more cultures and religions. The Celtic Druids for example, or the original religions of Italy and Greece. Norway. The witches in Europe. All destroyed. Sometimes killed literally in the name of God, sometimes by converting & missionaries. And that is what it in the end boils down to: who owns the biggest piece of the pie.

Still, intolerant atheism as part of State Religion -- such as operated by the Chinese Communist system (especially in neighbouring countries under Chinese rule), or previously used by the Third reich and the Soviets -- is worse than the most intolerant of religions since State Atheism tends to forego the basic moral justice at the foundation of any theistic religion...You should look up the military inteventations of the USA past WWII. Both military and covert ops (e.g. CIA). Then study the effects of that, and then tell me the USA hasn't acted like a bully who owns the world. If you look at these effects, many people have died due to this. Not only Salvador Allende, but all the results of him taken out of power -- to name an example.

[Karel Jansens]

You assume there is a god.
Well, he'd know if he were one...

[allnameswereout]

Christian extremists are trying to bring back the Dark Ages.
Muslim extremists are trying to get into the twenty first century.

Christian extremists are frowned upon by mainstream Christians.
Muslim extremists are culled by mainstream muslims.

Yes, ok, so equal problem.

[...]

The only good muslim is an ex-muslim.

:confused:

Great logic. You forgot Christianity and started to uncapitalize Muslim *claps*.

Suggestion: Stick in Belgium. You belong there, between the other intollerant Filip De Winter groupies.

[allnameswereout]

as a outsider i have gotten the impression that the so-called "bible belt" has a lot to say about the outcome of presidential elections.

and it seems the while most of europe have a continual struggle to get religion out of government, usa have one to keep religion out.

btw, i also heard that the least wanted us president would be one who was a declared atheist. even a radical muslim would be more accepted...Yeah, that whole nation is based upon fata morganas. Like the economy :p no fear, god is going to wipe that 15 zero long national debt! :rolleyes: :D

[allnameswereout]

Well, he'd know if he were one...Oh, really? According to certain New Age theories we all are Gods. Why then, other people don't realize this?

[qole]

I'm a big believer in advanced life genetically engineered interventionism. a.k.a E.T's having a hand with mankind's missing link, so put me in the agnostic category, but with an educated pretty good hunch.

And where did the ETs come from? And don't say, "a previous ET civilization"... :p

Oh, he's cheating to create the illusion of omnipotence. Not bad. Really clever.

By definition, the being who makes the rules never cheats.

[Thesandlord]

Look, all religions are the same under the mask. There is a reason there are more and more atheists now than ever. Let me explain...

Religion is simply a institutionalized morality. It is basically a bunch of people or a single person (Christ, Buddha, Muhammad, etc..) who make some rules that they believe will create the most social harmony. And what a shocker, the core rules are almost ALWAYS the same. Lets see, no killing, stealing, disrespect, be nice, etc.... The differences come in the superficial aspects (the mask), such as "no abortion or gays" or "women must cover their faces." Yes, these are important to their SPECIFIC social order, but taken out of context they make no sense. The core values are all that are important.

So, how does this make more atheists today? Well, in a country diverse as the USA, and in the Bay Area of San Fransisco, so many religions clash, that none is seen as an authority. Instead, we get our "Moral Order" from the government and ourselves, aka atheist. Of course, some of us want more guidance in our lives, so we turn to religion. Simple as that.

If anyone tells you a religion is better than another, and you should switch, ask yourself why. What better guidance can the alternative religion offer. If it is some ******** answer, then the person is simply trying to gain power.

(A example of a ******** answer is the Flying Spaghetti Monster example given previously. The "converter" said that it was impossible for the FSM to exist because it was invisible and stuff. He failed to see the irony of the Monster, which is you don't have to see to believe. Its simply a moral set, not some holy man or something...)

If any one the Founders of different religions were here today, I bet they would be SICK to the core to see us "killing in the name of."

[geneven]

I might call myself a religious atheist. That is, I think that there are many positive aspects of religion. I just think their main premise is wrong.

Someone said that in order to be a true atheist, you would have to be omnipotent. True, the same goes for you who don't believe in Santa. Have you checked everywhere to see whether Santa was there? No, you haven't.

If the above reasoning is correct about Santa, I am an agnostic about Santa and about God.

If the reasoning cited is a crock, which I believe it is, then I am an atheist.

By the way, here is another position to take, that of an "ignostic". An ignostic is someone who can't figure out who this God character is that everyone talks about. Since people have such different beliefs (and I myself believe in God if He is defined as pi or some other mathematical concept), the ignostic just can't figure out what is being discussed.

[finite]

I was pleased to see that the vote before mine pushed the combined total of Linux + No Religion over 50% (now 46 of 90 votes). Way to keep it real, ITT!
When I say this, I am dead serious: I'm a Pastafarian.

Yes, I worship the Flying Spaghetti Monster and was converted from Atheism.

Your sad devotion to that ancient religion has not helped you conjure up the stolen data tapes or given you clairvoyance enough to find the rebels' hidden fortress. But whatever gets you through the night is all right, all right.

[tso]

I surely agree when it comes to individual people.
But what really scares me is the amount of phrases like "gods own country", "god wants us to..." and so on that are used in a supposedly non-religious context, mostly politics. Especially the republican speeches and press releases are filled with these. Over here someone who claims he is chosen by god and knows what "his" will is, might be considered a dangerous fanatic. In the US such agitators get voted for by a huge percentage and not only despite they say things like that, but because they do.
That really scares me!

this should probably lighten your day:
http://fashionablygeek.com/t-shirts/its-not-often-fish-and-blimps-go-together/

[Boke]

Now I understand why there is a bible reader in the maemo repositories...

[TA-t3]

And where did the ETs come from? And don't say, "a previous ET civilization"...

There are turtles all the way down? :D

And thanks (as there is no "thanks" button in off-topid) to GA for the clarification - things are often more subtle than it may appear from outside.

[tso]

Now I understand why there is a bible reader in the maemo repositories...

no ****, sherlock...

the worriesome thing is when its only loaded with a digital version of the "king james" variant of the text...

[Karel Jansens]

Yes, ok, so equal problem.
I suggest you read that again.


:confused:

Great logic. You forgot Christianity and started to uncapitalize Muslim *claps*.
Glad you caught that. I can assure you it was not unintentional.

Suggestion: Stick in Belgium. You belong there, between the other intollerant Filip De Winter groupies.
... says the one from the country where Fortuyn was shot in the head because the leftie loonie didn't like his political views.

... says the one from the country where Theo Van Gogh was knifed and gutted by a muslim mainstreamer because he didn't like the way Theo talked about his "prophet".

Dude, you really need a reality check.

[Karel Jansens]

Oh, really? According to certain New Age theories we all are Gods. Why then, other people don't realize this?
Go try turn your booze into water.

[Karel Jansens]

Religion is simply a institutionalized morality. It is basically a bunch of people or a single person (Christ, Buddha, Muhammad, etc..) who make some rules that they believe will create the most social harmony. And what a shocker, the core rules are almost ALWAYS the same. Lets see, no killing, stealing, disrespect, be nice, etc.... The differences come in the superficial aspects (the mask), such as "no abortion or gays" or "women must cover their faces." Yes, these are important to their SPECIFIC social order, but taken out of context they make no sense. The core values are all that are important.

I suggest you take another look at the rules of the alleged prophet Mohammed, about the killing, respecting and being nice parts. Also, Islam is not so much a religion as it is an ideology, and one with more than passing resemblances to other fascist ideologies.

[tso]

iirc, what mohammed did was adapt old testament thinking to something acceptable by the various warrior honor cultures in and around the middle-eastern peninsula and the sahara desert.

much the same kind of warrior honor that one find in the old knights of europe, or the samurai of japan.

[Karel Jansens]

iirc, what mohammed did was adapt old testament thinking to something acceptable by the various warrior honor cultures in and around the middle-eastern peninsula and the sahara desert.

much the same kind of warrior honor that one find in the old knights of europe, or the samurai of japan.
And what I heard is that odds are Mohammed never even existed, and that the Koran was originally a collection of simplified excerpts from the Bible and other Christian writings, adapted for the simple goat fuc^H^H^Hherding Arab nomads of the peninsula. A bunch of warlords then used these writings to justify their ways, but as usual with humans, things got out of hand.

Mind you, a non-existing Mohammed is somewhat of an improvement over a pedophile Mohammed.

[tso]

i take it your not much fond of the latest wave of muslim immigrants/"invaders", karel ;)

i suspect the person existed, but that the claims of his exploits have been exaggerated over the centuries.

[allnameswereout]

Lets see, no killing, stealing, disrespect, be nice, etc....

The differences come in the superficial aspects (the mask), such as "no abortion or gays" or "women must cover their faces."Jesus taught compassion. This is what inspires Women On Waves (http://www.womenonwaves.org).

So, how does this make more atheists today? Well, in a country diverse as the USA, and in the Bay Area of San Fransisco, so many religions clash, that none is seen as an authority. Instead, we get our "Moral Order" from the government and ourselves, aka atheist. Of course, some of us want more guidance in our lives, so we turn to religion. Simple as that.

From what I gathered the people there have a different attitude than in the rest of the USA. But I've roughly only been there; not so much other parts of USA.

If anyone tells you a religion is better than another, and you should switch, ask yourself why. What better guidance can the alternative religion offer. If it is some ******** answer, then the person is simply trying to gain power.

I suggest: listen, don't use one source for information, look into the religion if it interests you. Just like with science.

Don't become attached to one religion. Study religions, take what you like, discard the rest. That is what I did, and sometimes still do. We all have morals and ethics. It is up to you to create your own.

The advantage of this is that I know positive sides of many religions. :) The negative are easily to get, e.g. via news.

To be frank I'm failing for I haven't figured a positive side of Scientology yet... but thats my problem :D

[allnameswereout]

Someone said that in order to be a true atheist, you would have to be omnipotent. True, the same goes for you who don't believe in Santa. Have you checked everywhere to see whether Santa was there? No, you haven't.

If the above reasoning is correct about Santa, I am an agnostic about Santa and about God.

Well.... Santa Claus is based on the Dutch 'Sinterklaas' (Sint-Nicolaas), who was a Greek bishop of Myra (now Turkey) in ~300 A.D. You can read more here. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinterklaas)

And, if you've never has them. Try to buy some speculaas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speculaas) cookies. They're an old tradition here 9especially on Sinterklaas), and very tasty.

[allnameswereout]

Glad you caught that. I can assure you it was not unintentional.How manipulative. Then don't capitalize muslim at all.

... says the one from the country where Fortuyn was shot in the head because the leftie loonie didn't like his political views.

... says the one from the country where Theo Van Gogh was knifed and gutted by a muslim mainstreamer because he didn't like the way Theo talked about his "prophet".Said the one who's UN soldiers didn't do anything to protect the muslim enclave Sjebrenijca. So what? Whats your point?

Go try turn your booze into water.You assume I agree with the assessment I quote.

[Karel Jansens]

i take it your not much fond of the latest wave of muslim immigrants/"invaders", karel;)
As one who is in the process of emigrating to another country, one where I am uncompromisingly expected to either adapt or be forever branded as a second-class resident, I find the voluntary dhimmitude of Europeans revolting, especially towards a backward and ******ed ideology that disguises itself as a religion.

So: yes.


i suspect the person existed, but that the claims of his exploits have been exaggerated over the centuries.

Maybe, but contrary to Christianity, scientific tolerance is not really part of islam. Just go look up what kinds of things tend to "happen" to people who do research into the figure of Mohammed outside of the writings of the koran.

[Karel Jansens]

Said the one who's UN soldiers didn't do anything to protect the muslim enclave Sjebrenijca. So what? Whats your point?

But that's not my country; I'm Flemish. Besides, I can tell you've been very unilaterally "informed" about what exactly happened and is happening in the Balkan. The use of the term "enclave" alone is rather telling.

[pycage]

And what I heard is that odds are Mohammed never even existed, and that the Koran was originally a collection of simplified excerpts from the Bible and other Christian writings, adapted for the simple goat fuc^H^H^Hherding Arab nomads of the peninsula. A bunch of warlords then used these writings to justify their ways, but as usual with humans, things got out of hand.

Mind you, a non-existing Mohammed is somewhat of an improvement over a pedophile Mohammed.

Well, I heard that probably Jesus never existed as well. He's said to be personification of a savior character of some Jewish sects. Some guy named Paulus must have been so obsessed about this idea that he founded a new religion based on legends from these sects.
There's an interesting book on this theory. "The Christ Myth" by Arthur Drews, from about 100 years ago.

In the end it might turn out that the only religion founder who ever really existed was LaVey...
Oh, and Linus Torvalds of course! :D

[dont]

As one who is in the process of emigrating to another country

Which one?

[penguinbait]

I will ask again, since my thread appears to be hijacked.

"Can't we all just get along"

If you are a Christian talk about your Christian beliefs instead of trying to "educate" others on Islam. If you are a Muslim talk about your Islamic beliefs. If your an Athiest feel free to talk about why you don't believe, but don't act like people who do are stupid.

Seriously can't we have a conversation about our differences without resorting to name calling.

So I am asking, please, can't we all just get along. I did not intend this post to cause a religious war.

[tso]

Maybe, but contrary to Christianity, scientific tolerance is not really part of islam. Just go look up what kinds of things tend to "happen" to people who do research into the figure of Mohammed outside of the writings of the koran.

i would say that the big diff between chirstianity and islam is that most of chirstianity had the extremism beaten out of it between 1000 and 1600 or there about.

on the other hand, islam is just hitting that age of strife (the religion got going around 900 iirc).

and while the "bending knees and wrapped women" style makes for a lot of press, there are as many of not more that deal with islam as most of europe deals with christianity. a starting point for a moral code, but not something that one follow by the letter.

question is, can the rest of the world hold out while islam gets its collective pubertal rebellious energy burned?

[pycage]

Well.... Santa Claus is based on the Dutch 'Sinterklaas' (Sint-Nicolaas), who was a Greek bishop of Myra (now Turkey) in ~300 A.D. You can read more here. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinterklaas)

And, if you've never has them. Try to buy some speculaas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speculaas) cookies. They're an old tradition here 9especially on Sinterklaas), and very tasty.

That's what we call St. Nikolaus in Germany. His date is Dec. 6th. The person we know as Santa Claus is a derivation of the Holly King, the red-clad spirit of celtic origin, who visits the people on Yule tide (Dec. 25th). Some nordic-influenced languages (e.g. English, Norwegian) still have the name yule as synonym for christmas.

And speculaas are really tasty. :D

[allnameswereout]

Karel, you're running away from a problem.

This is the country I am living in:

http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/554/ddl20070718016vr009jz6.jpg

i would say that the big diff between chirstianity and islam is that most of chirstianity had the extremism beaten out of it between 1000 and 1600 or there about.In 1600 A.D. witches were still burned. But, most of Europe was converted to Christianity so in that sense you're right...

on the other hand, islam is just hitting that age of strife (the religion got going around 900 iirc).Its a younger religion which did same to regions around Saudia Arabia as Christians did around Rome: converting people & destroyin their old (fractured) belief systems.

and while the "bending knees and wrapped women" style makes for a lot of press, there are as many of not more that deal with islam as most of europe deals with christianity. a starting point for a moral code, but not something that one follow by the letter.We had wrapped women in 1600 in Europe. Voila (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0335119/)

Also, some Christians still think in a 'us versus them' rhetoric. They still murder, too. For their own benefit, using their religion when it suits them. But in their religion it says murder is wrong...

[TA-t3]

I'm starting to understand why posting about religion or politics are against the rules on most forums! :D

[penguinbait]

Can you PLEASE take your chat with Karel to the PM's so we don't have to wade through it anymore.

PLEASE!

[qwerty12]

Sigh, I don't think it's going to happen.
I'm Muslim but in all honesty, I don't really know much about my religion to argue back (I'm not religious, so I guess for me, it's like the argument in here before about if you are a Christian if you aren't religious) . So I'll get the popcorn and sit back :) (at the risk at sounding like I don't care, but I do.). I won't deny I'm finding it sad to hear all this but at the end of the day, I'm whoever I am regardless of religion and I guess that part of me is willing to listen (if this makes sense...).

[Karel Jansens]

Well, I heard that probably Jesus never existed as well. He's said to be personification of a savior character of some Jewish sects. Some guy named Paulus must have been so obsessed about this idea that he founded a new religion based on legends from these sects.
There's an interesting book on this theory. "The Christ Myth" by Arthur Drews, from about 100 years ago.

In the end it might turn out that the only religion founder who ever really existed was LaVey...
Oh, and Linus Torvalds of course! :D
You're conveniently forgetting L. Ron Hubbard.

And there actually is some (not much) confirmation about the existence of Jesus, contrary to Mohammed. But I do agree there's a lot of Messian "contamination" in the Gospels.

[Karel Jansens]

Which one?
Why?
______

[Karel Jansens]

I will ask again, since my thread appears to be hijacked.

"Can't we all just get along"

If you are a Christian talk about your Christian beliefs instead of trying to "educate" others on Islam. If you are a Muslim talk about your Islamic beliefs. If your an Athiest feel free to talk about why you don't believe, but don't act like people who do are stupid.

Seriously can't we have a conversation about our differences without resorting to name calling.

So I am asking, please, can't we all just get along. I did not intend this post to cause a religious war.
Do you nean you actually started this thread, expecting none of this? Are you really that naive?

[Karel Jansens]

i would say that the big diff between chirstianity and islam is that most of chirstianity had the extremism beaten out of it between 1000 and 1600 or there about.

No, it wasn't beaten out. Christianity has been a very pro-science religion from the beginning (contrary to the asinine atheist propagancda fla°oating around), and Christians got rid of their extremists by themselves.

on the other hand, islam is just hitting that age of strife (the religion got going around 900 iirc).

So we have to be nice to the ******ed muslims? I don't exactly recall that to be the party line against Hitler's atavistic fascism:

and while the "bending knees and wrapped women" style makes for a lot of press, there are as many of not more that deal with islam as most of europe deals with christianity. a starting point for a moral code, but not something that one follow by the letter.

You mean, like in Turkey? Oh wait...

question is, can the rest of the world hold out while islam gets its collective pubertal rebellious energy burned?

Why should the rest of the world accomodate these ******ed desert dwellers? They have to adapt to us, not the other way around.

[Karel Jansens]

Karel, you're running away from a problem.

This is the country I am living in:

http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/554/ddl20070718016vr009jz6.jpg

In 1600 A.D. witches were still burned. But, most of Europe was converted to Christianity so in that sense you're right...

Its a younger religion which did same to regions around Saudia Arabia as Christians did around Rome: converting people & destroyin their old (fractured) belief systems.

We had wrapped women in 1600 in Europe. Voila (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0335119/)

Also, some Christians still think in a 'us versus them' rhetoric. They still murder, too. For their own benefit, using their religion when it suits them. But in their religion it says murder is wrong...
You are so wrong it isn't even funny anymore. Go be a dhimmi then, see if I care.

[Karel Jansens]

Can you PLEASE take your chat with Karel to the PM's so we don't have to wade through it anymore.

PLEASE!
No.

You started it...

Ceterum censeo Islam delendam.

[fatalsaint]

All I can say is no religion is 100% pure and devoid of evil.

Catholic Inquisition, Mormon Mountain Meadows Massacre, Muslim/Islamic Fundamentalists/Extremists...

Crazy people are just bloody crazy.. regardless of religion. Just some crazy people are able to get a bunch of idiots to follow said crazy person and do crazy crap.

Nobody can really claim a "higher" chair here. I've known plenty of good, decent people from all sorts of religions. I served in Iraq for 2 years and met plenty of Iraqi's that loved us over there.. for the most part they were no different than anyone else. Just a bunch of people that live in a country formally ruled by a cruel and malicious dictator; and now suffer at the hands of the remaining "extremists".

I agree with PB in that most of us here are Above-Average IQ; decent; hard working people that are perfectly fine as human beings .. and while you may attribute your "goodness" to your faith or religion that certainly doesn't mean the rest of us AREN'T "good" because we used an alternate method.

For the most part.. this forum has plenty of Fine folk and are not the problem in any of the respective religions (or lack there-of.) And as someone that has both lived in muslim areas and even OWN a Qur'an purchased IN a middle east country (it has both arabic and english translations side-by-side) and I have actually read it; and the King James Bible; I can say that there are plenty of perfectly fine Muslim people. The Qur'an has plenty of dark parts.. but it's not like Revelations had everyone smiling and loving life; or that God didn't send Joshua to slaughter a town (Jericho); including women and children.

Sure.. there's biblical justification for all the darker parts in both books.. but if you are to condemn one; you should condemn all; or none at all.

I'm more with the latter.. I don't condemn any of them flat out.. I just condemn the people that take it "too far"; so to speak.

[sondjata]

Right.... Those enlightened and "Scientific" Christians who happened to have determined that Africans were somehow not human. Right, those " Peaceable Muslims" who ransacked North East Africa and then North West Africa, taking down Songhai which lead to the Jihadi wars that fed directly to the North Atlantic slave trade.

Both of whom owe the origins of their religions to the Egyptians yet spend an inordinate amount of time evil talking those very same people.

The problem here is that people simply don't want to own up to the "ish" that their religions condone and have condoned. Karel is right about the warfare ideology, I've read the research. You really can't argue when the right hand man of Mohammed is named the "sword of Islam" Nor can you argue when Mohammed is on record berrating his general for killing a king NOT because killing is wrong, but because the king had declared allegiance to Islam.

Personally I have issues with both Islam and Christianity because they are arrogant religions that deem that they have THE truth and that everybody else has to get with them or are deserving of some specialized punishment. It's arrogant and has claimed many victims across the globe.

I'm done.

[sondjata]

And please.. enough of the "Abrahamic" nonsense:

http://garveys-ghost.blogspot.com/2006/04/abrahamic-what.html

[penguinbait]

It's apparent there are too many people who are just intollerant of others views. It's sad really. I never meant this to turn into an attack on Muslims or people of any faith. It was meant to be light, how many Jedi's or Linux prophet are running around. Yet some have decided its an opportunity to incite hate.

There are some people in here that just need to grow up, and look at themselves for opportunities for improvment.

[tso]

No, it wasn't beaten out. Christianity has been a very pro-science religion from the beginning (contrary to the asinine atheist propagancda fla°oating around), and Christians got rid of their extremists by themselves.

chatolics vs protestants? i didnt say it was a outside force that did the beating...

So we have to be nice to the ******ed muslims? I don't exactly recall that to be the party line against Hitler's atavistic fascism:

reductio ad hitlerum? also known as godwin's law?

You mean, like in Turkey? Oh wait...

maybe a bit further north. i have a uncle by marriage (or whatever the expression would be) thats you would not guess was muslim unless he basically told you so. he came to norway fleeing the civil war in what was yugoslavia.

not that anything out of taliban or similar would claim him to be a proper muslim. but then neither would some groups here in norway say that im a proper christian, so...

Why should the rest of the world accomodate these ******ed desert dwellers? They have to adapt to us, not the other way around.

i would say that sword swings both ways. "my way or the highway" style just ends up with broken noses and bruised egos, at best...

[Karel Jansens]

It's apparent there are too many people who are just intollerant of others views. It's sad really. I never meant this to turn into an attack on Muslims or people of any faith. It was meant to be light, how many Jedi's or Linux prophet are running around. Yet some have decided its an opportunity to incite hate.

There are some people in here that just need to grow up, and look at themselves for opportunities for improvment.
Instead of playing the hurt primadonna, you might have considered the consequences of starting a thread about people's most intimate convictions.

Or maybe you want me to start a "poll" on the number of homosexuals, or pedophiles, or serial killers in this forum? And subsequently complain that things have gotten a bit intense?

Personally I don't mind heated discussions, because they're just that: discussions. As long as noone flies planes into other people's buildings, only feelings can get hurt, and they're the easiest ones to mend. Besides, if you wanted that "happy happy, joy joy" feeling, what are you doing on the internet in the first place?

[tso]

It's apparent there are too many people who are just intollerant of others views. It's sad really. I never meant this to turn into an attack on Muslims or people of any faith. It was meant to be light, how many Jedi's or Linux prophet are running around. Yet some have decided its an opportunity to incite hate.

There are some people in here that just need to grow up, and look at themselves for opportunities for improvment.

heh, in hindsight i guess one should have seen the warning signs in the horizon...