View Full Version : Sticky Draft
TrueJournals
04-05-2009, 09:40 PM
Well... it took some typing, but I've come up with a rough draft of how I think the sticky post at the top of all forums should go. Please post comments/feedback here, and I will try to update the draft as I receive suggestions.
Hello, and welcome to Internet Tablet Talk (ITT)/talk.maemo.org.
Each forum in this community has a separate purpose, and to make your thread most visible, it's best to post in the correct forum. If a moderator sees your thread, and thinks it would be better suited in a different forum, they will move your thread, leaving a link from the previous forum to the thread's new location. This link will usually last for one week, but this time period is adjusted on a thread-to-thread basis. Before posting, however, please acquaint yourself with the board's rules:
1. Try to use gramatically correct English.
Not only does this make your post easier to read, and understand, it also helps with users that speak a different language and must use automatic translation websites. If you are a non-native speaker who struggles with English, please just do your best. Also, please refrain from using instant messaging slang such as "lol," as this could confuse some users. A list of acceptable acronyms, and their meanings, can be found at http://wiki.maemo.org/Acronyms
2. Use the "Thanks" button.
While making another post to say "thanks" is nice, the main purpose of posts should be to provide extra feedback of some sort. The thanks button shows up on all posts (except those in the "Off Topic" forum), and can be easily be used to thank another member for information, or agree with another member on a point that was made. Thanks are also counted into maemo.org karma, which some members like to keep track of.
3. Refrain from bumping old threads.
If a thread is more than a couple months old, please do not bump it to the top of a forum by making a new post in it. If you are having a similar problem, please create a new thread outlining the problem you are having, and telling what you have tried. This keeps thread conversations clean and easy to follow. Bumping is only allowed in the "Applications", "Multimedia", and "Games" forums, in order to keep application discussion consolidated.
4. Describe problems in detail.
Being as detailed as possible will help get your problem solved as quickly as possible. List what you have tried, and any error messages that have occured. Also, please refer to the list of common solutions at http://wiki.maemo.org/Common_Solutions to see if your problem can be solved.
5. Search before posting.
The forum's search feature is easily accessible from the top bar, right below where your username and last visit are displayed. This search box will search all forums. Each forum, also has a "Search this forum" feature, when viewing the threads in the forum, and each thread includes a "Search this thread" dropdown. Please search to see if your question has already been answered before creating a new thread.
Following these simple rules will help keep the forums organized, and universally accessible.
The description of each forum, shown on the main page, should give a good idea of where a new thread should be placed. If, however, you are unsure of where a thread should go, the best place for general questions is the "Newbie" forum, and the best place for general discussion (ideas, etc.) is the "General" forum.
For reference, the following is a list of useful links on maemo.org:
downloads.maemo.org -- The main location to download software for your Nokia Internet Tablet.
maemo.org/news -- News relevant to the Nokia Internet Tablets.
wiki.maemo.org -- The maemo wiki contains many tips, tricks, and extra documentation. You are able to edit and improve pages, and the wiki is the best place for "static" information (information that won't change much over time)
bugs.maemo.org -- The best place to report bugs, and vote for existing bugs and enhancements. See also: Maemo Bug Jars (http://www.octofish.net/bugjar/).
garage.maemo.org -- A project hosting site, target at maemo software. Software not yet ready for end users, along with a convenient project hosting for new developers can be found here.
Enjoy your stay at Internet Tablet Talk/talk.maemo.org!
[edit]I forgot to mention that obviously this post links to some wiki pages that don't exist. They were just ideas for information that seemed to logically fit in the post, but were too lengthy to include. These pages could easily be created if needed.
BrentDC
04-05-2009, 10:15 PM
I love it! Just a couple small typos:
...and to make you thread most...
Should be "your"..
And in the forum title you misspelled Accessories.
TrueJournals
04-05-2009, 10:17 PM
Darn it! There was bound to be a typo in there! And, for whatever reason, Chrome didn't red-underline "Acessories"... both fixed now, though... thanks :D
Thanks for this!
Some comments:
Everything said is good but the post is too long and it risks being ignored by those that need it more: distracted junior posters in a rush. Here you have some suggestions to slim it down without loosing the good info.
All the descriptions of the forums should go better to... the descriptions of the forums that now are missing at http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/index.php . Your draft descriptions are very good. If you agree taking them out of the sticky topic, would you mind starting a new thread to discuss them for the forum index page?
We should avoid duplicate info with the current [URL="http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27900"]. Your tips and the ones we drafted can be merged.
We shouldn't repeat the same generaic content in all the sticky topics. Instead, we could have the generic infor in the General forum and then have sticky topics specific to each forum explaining what is the right content to be posted there and linking to the generic topics.
If a moderator sees your thread, and thinks it would be better suited in a different forum, they will move your thread, and notify you via the board's private messaging system about the move.
This implies a lot of boring manual work, including having to answer PMs of posters disagreeing or asking for further explanations. Let's use instead the redirect notices that are part of the system. It takes on click to leave them when moving a thread.
If you are unsure of where a thread should go, please send a private message to a moderator inquiring where to place your post. The list of moderators can be found at http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showgroups.php.
The risk of not getting an answer (fast or at all) from a moderator is high now. And again it causes extra work to the moderators (very few and already busy). If someone is unsure about the right forum s/he should simply go to newbie. We will redirect from there.
TrueJournals
04-06-2009, 07:28 PM
Thanks for the feedback.
When I started writing, I was planning on having a more detailed description for each forum, but when I got to that section, I only ended up writing short summaries. I agree, these would seem better suited to be the descriptions on the main page. Planning out in my head, I saw this as being a general sticky, and then having the detailed explanation in each forum, as you suggested. Again, though, this would only have worked if I actually wrote full descriptions.
As for the moderators... I wasn't sure how much effort wanted to be put into this. I figured I'd draft the full-effort ("full-time job") version, and someone could correct me down if need be.
I'll work on editing up a bit...
[edit]Just updated. Also added a "search before posting" rule that I forgot... Should I add a "Don't double post" rule too?
The content of the draft looks very good and I would only change the sorting of the items (see draft below). Now it's only a matter of finding the right share with the current sticky topic in General (http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27900).
For instance, one topic could be useful for all newcomers willing to READ and the other one should be useful for those willing to POST.
This is how the READ topic could see:
Welcome to Internet Tablet Talk (soon to become talk.maemo.org)!
This is the right place for you to share questions, answers and any thoughts relating to the Maemo operating system, applications, devices and community. Discussions about alternatives and competitors are welcome too, and there's even a place for off-topic posts. Please follow the guidelines to <link>write a good post</link>.
Some general tips about maemo.org:
downloads.maemo.org (http://maemo.org/downloads) is the right place to find interesting software for your device.
maemo.org/news (http://maemo.org/news) allows you to follow and rate the most relevant news.
wiki.maemo.org (http://wiki.maemo.org) contains lots of tips, tricks and documentation. You can edit and improve any page.
bugs.maemo.org (http://bugs.maemo.org) is the best channel to report bugs and vote for existing bugs and enhancements. Also see the Maemo Bug Jars (http://www.octofish.net/bugjar/).
Use the "Thanks" button
The thanks button shows up on all posts (except those in the "Off Topic" forum), and can be easily be used to thank another member for information, or agree with another member on a point that was made. Thanks are also counted into maemo.org karma (http://wiki.maemo.org/Karma), which some members like to keep track of.
And this could be then the POST topic:
Here you have some guidelines to write The Good Post. Following these simple rules will help keep the forums organized, and universally accessible.
Search before posting
The forum's search feature is easily accessible from the top bar, right below where your username and last visit are displayed. This search box will search all forums. Each forum, also has a "Search this forum" feature, when viewing the threads in the forum, and each thread includes a "Search this thread" dropdown. Please search to see if your question has already been answered before creating a new thread.
Find the right forum
Each forum in this community has a separate purpose, and to make your thread most visible, it's best to post in the correct forum. If a moderator sees your thread, and thinks it would be better suited in a different forum, they will move your thread, leaving a link from the previous forum to the thread's new location. This link will usually last for one month.
The description of each forum, shown on the main page, should give a good idea of where a new thread should be placed. If, however, you are unsure of where a thread should go, the best place for general questions is the "Newbie" forum, and the best place for general discussion (ideas, etc.) is the "General" forum.
Some tips to find the right forum:
The General (http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=7) forum is only for those topics that don't really fit in any other.
The Newbie (http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=26) forum is basically a gateway: topics posted there will probably be moved to the right forum.
The maemo.org (http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=16) forum contains all the community-related topics, including the website.
All the applications (including the problems you might have with them) are discussed under the Software (http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=1) forums.
OS2008 (http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=29) is the operating system for the N810 and N800.
OS2006 (http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=21) is the operating system for the 770.
The Devices (http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=14) section is for hardware related topics only, including the Maemo related devices you want to buy or sell (http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=27).
Don't post in the Old (http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=34) forums unless you really need it.
Refrain from bumping old threads
If a thread is more than a couple months old, please do not bump it to the top of a forum by making a new post in it. If you are having a similar problem, please create a new thread outlining the problem you are having, and telling what you have tried. This keeps thread conversations clean and easy to follow. Bumping is only allowed in the "Applications", "Multimedia", and "Games" forums, in order to keep application discussion consolidated.
Describe problems in detail
Being as detailed as possible will help get your problem solved as quickly as possible. List what you have tried, and any error messages that have occured. Also, please refer to the list of common solutions at http://wiki.maemo.org/Common_Solutions to see if your problem can be solved.
Use gramatically correct English
Not only does this make your post easier to read, and understand, it also helps with users that speak a different language and must use automatic translation websites. If you are a non-native speaker who struggles with English, please just do your best. Also, please refrain from using instant messaging slang such as "lol," as this could confuse some users. A list of acceptable acronyms, and their meanings, can be found at http://wiki.maemo.org/Acronyms
The content of the draft looks very good and I would only change the sorting of the items (see draft below). Now it's only a matter of finding the right share with the current sticky topic in General (http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27900).
For instance, one topic could be useful for all newcomers willing to READ and the other one should be useful for those willing to POST.
I don't think there should be a READ sticky, and the general tips about maemo.org should be on the home page of maemo.org.
Disagree with new no bumping and list of acceptable acronyms rules.
TrueJournals
04-09-2009, 11:34 PM
Most forums have a "README" sticky of some sort to help new users get acquainted to how the forum works, and what the rules of the forums are. I don't see why we wouldn't/shouldn't do that here.
Also, why do you disagree with no bumping and the list of acceptable acronyms? Bumping only causes confusion in threads. People bump old threads with a ton of information, and then relevant information becomes harder to find. It's a pretty standard rule. The list of acceptable acronyms is mainly to prevent chat slang, which just looks sloppy in forums. It also serves the purpose of standardizing acronyms for various functions on the tablet, and, again, quickly acquainting new users with the forum. Acceptable acronyms, in my mind, wouldn't be a strictly enforced rule, just more of a guideline to help standardize some items.
I have no problem with objects to my ideas, just please give reasons if you're going to object.
allnameswereout
04-10-2009, 04:39 AM
The shorter this is, the better. The best type of English for such a post is simple yet descriptive.
This forum is high in Google Pagerank. You cannot assume everyone who visits and reads this knows what Maemo is. A link to what Maemo is at top is therefore useful.
What you wrote is more forum rules than an introduction to what these forums _are_. The introduction lacks:
Hello, and welcome to Internet Tablet Talk (ITT)/talk.maemo.org.
Each forum in this community has a separate purpose
I'd say, welcome to Talk. Give this thing one name. One definition. I'd be tempting to say 'Lets Talk' but ehh.. too trendy I guess :D
Then define what Talk is. The Maemo community forums platform. Maemo is then clickable which links to maemo.org/intro. Then the rest you wrote.
A lot of what you wrote is mostly common sense. Threads are moved but this is transparent to users. A redirect is shown. This doesn't have to be mentioned. People speak the language which you read (English usually), people try to speak their best English, and so forth. In a way this is boring, in another way informating. If you cater to new users (true for Fremantle and RX-51) it is a necessity. You might want to combine proper English with describe problems in detail. BTW, it is also OK to speak for example Spanish if that is what you prefer. It is not mandatory to speak English.
The order. I'd say the 'Thanks' is not as important as using the 'Search' which should be the first suggestion. Bumping second or after use correct English / describe detail (these 2 overlap). Thanks comes after the question is asked therefore last. Might make sense to put second because after search was used answer was found. But then the user is probably not registered yet.
1. Search before posting.
2. Try to use gramatically correct English.
3. Describe problems in detail.
4. Refrain from bumping old threads.
5. Use the "Thanks" button.
Other things to consider to include are:
A) Legality. Something to consider later; right now it is not really an issue.
B) [Tag] before title. E.g. [Canola] Pogo stick doesn't work or [MicroB] crashes while visiting http://127.0.0.1 (hypothetic examples).
C) Link to the search in the 'Search before posting'. Also link to tag cloud.
Different subforums have different levels of communication. But that shows itself for now, I suppose. Furthermore, threads can be linked from sticky in forum using a FAQ style layout, or using the tags.
You can also link to the Newbie and General forums at the bottom of the post.
I'd also replace 'acquaint' with 'become familiar with' because the former is an uncommon word therefore not foreigner-friendly.
The bumping is difficult. You also don't want to have 10 threads about the same. Threads can be merged, but that confuses people as well. A solution could be summing up useful information in wiki and refer to this. Each forum can have a wiki page with the 'best' threads summing them up. But that might be something for later, when it gets more crowded.
Most forums have a "README" sticky of some sort to help new users get acquainted to how the forum works, and what the rules of the forums are. I don't see why we wouldn't/shouldn't do that here.
Also, why do you disagree with no bumping and the list of acceptable acronyms? Bumping only causes confusion in threads. People bump old threads with a ton of information, and then relevant information becomes harder to find. It's a pretty standard rule. The list of acceptable acronyms is mainly to prevent chat slang, which just looks sloppy in forums. It also serves the purpose of standardizing acronyms for various functions on the tablet, and, again, quickly acquainting new users with the forum. Acceptable acronyms, in my mind, wouldn't be a strictly enforced rule, just more of a guideline to help standardize some items.
I have no problem with objects to my ideas, just please give reasons if you're going to object.In general, the forum has worked just fine in the past without rigorous rules. If it's not broke, don't fix it. A list of acceptable acronyms or trying to prevent people from being sloppy suggests an excessive amount of control.
One sticky is good, but two stickies is not and I think a single short "read this before posting" sticky is appropriate.
I think bumping threads is preferable to having multiple threads on the same topic. This is not a casual conversation forum, people park information here related to a particular app to be used as a resource. If a moderator wants to close a thread as inactive or outdated, then they simply do so, don't expect users to refrain from bumping it. Three months is arbitary anyway. If the thread gets too long, move the relevant info from the thread to the wiki and close the thread with a post to the wiki page.
General sticky thread edited getting the feed back from verybody here:
READ THIS before posting a new thread (http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27900)
Main drivers: as short as possible, leaving out anything that is kind of obvious or common sense.
Please point to this sticky thread whenever you see someone starting a new thread apparently without noticing such guidelines. Thank you!
There is now a Sticky draft for the N800 forum (http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=279882). Please comment. Once we are happy about it I will adapt the same sticky for the N810 and the 770.
Thank you for removing the section about bumping old threads in the POST topic. After all, if they're posting a new thread, then they're not the "bumping type".
I prefer that if people have questions about my applications, they post to my thread(s), because I subscribe to those threads and I know faster when someone needs help.
It's not that I have a strong opinion about bumping threads. Since there was no consensus I took it out. I don't think a gold rule can be made. Sometimes it's good, sometimes doesn't help. There is probably no way a Newbie can distinguish.
Posted a sticky for the N810 forum (http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28382). Feedback welcome as usual.
Anybody willing to volunteer with more stickies for other forums? Just post them and I will make them sticky.
KristianW
04-19-2009, 11:21 AM
qgil,
Just read your stickies on /General and /N810.
Looking back to when I was new here fairly recently,
I think you have covered the essentials simply and concisely !
I like the tone, informative and guiding.
You really can't shorten them more,
but if you should have to add something,
they would still be short enough to be read, I think.
The Nokia 770 forum has sticky for new posters now:
http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=280819
Anybody volunteering to write the Alternatives sticky draft to save users from Alternate OS Confusion (http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=284529) and also explaining how to deal with no further subforum classification in the Alternatives forum (http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28742)?
Well, this has somehow become my thing, so I guess I'll try to write something up in the next few days. If someone else does it first, I won't mind, either.
I need to write up an "Alternative Desktops (http://wiki.maemo.org/index.php?title=Alternative_desktop_environments)" wiki page, too, since there is a lot of confusion between distributions and desktops. It is made worse by the fact that people think Ubuntu is the Gnome desktop, and the fact that various versions of KDE (and some other, minimalist desktops, like FVWM) can be installed in Maemo, Deblet, Mer, and Easy Debian.
First seeds of a sticky for the Maemo 5 forum available at http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=285866&postcount=12
Any volunteers to write that sticky adding the relevant sources (GeneralAntilles has linked to them several times in questions from people here and there).
Ok my Alternatives sticky draft is here (http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=28904).
Excellent! Thank you.
"Alternatives Forum: PLEASE READ"
Since the usrs are already in the Alternatives forum, could it be more useful to stress the name of the main alternatives already in the subject? e.g.
"Android, Debian, KDE, Mer, Palm OS, Ubuntu & other alternatives lovers: PLEASE READ"
Or something.
The text is very good. The only thing I would add is a link to the general guidelines (http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=27900), as we are doing in the rest of stickies.
Gah! I'm locked out of my own post; I can't edit it anymore...
EDIT: By the way, do I get extra points for drafting the text on my tablet while waiting in the Emergency department of Children's Hospital with my daughter? (Don't worry, she's fine. Toxic Synovitis is scary looking and sounding, but it is fairly harmless)
Ah yes, only moderators can edit titles of threads, even you own. What is the exact title you want?
Also, have you considered becoming a moderator? :roll:
Happy recovery for your daughter!
Gah! I'm locked out of my own post; I can't edit it anymore...
Subject edited.
btw I have moved your formal request to the Moderators thread (to make it even more formal) :) and PB's post and your response to the thread it belongs to.
Note that moderators need to pay special attention to stick on topic in threads. :P
I actually liked my original subject, but you're the Super-Moderator :)
YoDude
09-30-2009, 07:57 PM
I whole heartedly agree with SD69 and qole on the bumping old threads bit. Multiple threads on a topic make search results a mess and "no bumping" sort of contradicts "search before posting" anyway. The whole bumping, cross posting, thread jacking, and thread dumping (crapping) thing can be covered by the posting guidelines. That is, posts should be relevant not only to the title but the discussion in the thread at the time.
You pro'ly will need more moderators but their powers can be restricted to assigned forums. You have a good crew now and I hope you have a private place to discuss things forum related because you’ll need it. If you do, I don’t want to know about it because I believe regular maemo.org members don't need to know a lot about the inner workings. I believe there should be a certain "man behind the curtain" mystery to how things are done and that includes how new moderators are chosen. It should be after careful observation of posting habits and temperament. The candidate(s) should be contacted via PM and it should not be part of a publicly aware recruitment drive imho.
This forum should be one of the gateways to the maemo.org community and not the other way around. That is, the maemo.org community should not be used or viewed by the public as a gateway to the administration of this forum.
Also (and I know the sound of this will rub people the wrong way but please hear me out and imagine the results before lighting the torches) what ever is posted in these forums should become the property of these forums and that bit should be part of a new member agreement at sign up.
This will end the "My thread" mentality and the overly possessive sense of ownership some have for pet causes or posted information. Moderators need to be able to move, merge, split, edit, and soft delete threads and their contents in order to fulfill the owners mission and/or administrators directives.
If the owner is a collective then its mission is for the collective good. We should all accept that and not jump so quickly to change whenever an individual disagrees with that belief.
Speaking of sticky drafts, who volunteers writing the ones needed for the Maemo 5 and the N900 forums? They are getting plenty of mislocated new threads these days.
YoDude
10-01-2009, 06:33 AM
Speaking of sticky drafts, who volunteers writing the ones needed for the Maemo 5 and the N900 forums? They are getting plenty of mislocated new threads these days.
Sorry about that qgil... my response may have seemed to veer somewhat from the intended purpose of this thread. I have a job that pulls me away from a desktop sometimes for 10 or 12 hours at a time. I think others may have as well... ( that was one of the attractions of the NIT in the first place. :) )
Just writing a sticky does not prevent mis located threads and the like, threads still need active moderation. The sticky does provide a moderator with a platform to stand on so that changes can be made. Feelings will still get hurt sometimes and one member can still reek havoc on the board as a whole in a relatively short period of time.
Stickies do promote more community involvement in policing the unproductive or exploitive behaviors of other members. It gives regular members somewhere relevant to point or refer to in responses.
I believe we touched on this before when discussing "organic growth" verses traffic control divisions when expanding the forums. I was thinking then as now, new or additional forums may become problematic without new or additional moderation.
Another thing that could be considered is providing moderators with a seperate account for moderation. Something with generic user names along the lines of moderator 1, 2, or 3... (if requested).
This will help prevent a "Peter principle" among membership where a former prolific, amiable, and entertaining poster becomes a moderator and because of his/her new duties; becomes less prolific, amiable, and entertaining. The member and the membership both end up with something less than disireable and everyone becomes somewhat worse for wear.
I'm not tring to hijack this thread to promote more moderation BTW. I am just trying to point out that writing a sticky for a forum may imply to some that the writer is somehow that forums new moderator (or ring leader :eek: ).
A sticky topic doesn't prevent misplaced posts but they do help users posting in the right places.
Sticky topics also help moderators and other experienced users willing to help, that can simply post a link instead of having to write the same explanations again and again.
A sticky topic takes 10 lines or less, so it's not really worth discussing them in 10 posts or more. :)
allnameswereout
10-02-2009, 01:20 PM
If you are going with the bumping-is-OK approach you should also give the TS (topicstarter) certain responsibilities. The first post is very important, and if it is bad (e.g. speculative) this yields a bad thread without allowing to create another one.
The TS should also not be able to remove his post thereby deleting the whole thread. Instead in the case TS wants FP (first post) to be removed she should contact a moderator who can then transfer relevant information into whatever becomes then the FP.
Because you are going to reuse a thread, the FP should be updateable by moderators reflecting the current state of affairs. Many people will not read the whole thread, instead only reading the first few posts. If the FP is a summary of the whole thread this improves forum quality by huge leaps. However, this also requires good moderators; both pragmatic and aiming for informative, as well as putting time and effort in summarizing. Compare it to a post containing a howto. You'd update that too as soon as there is updates for it.
DaveP1
10-02-2009, 02:50 PM
I agree with allnameswereout's comments but for many posts it seems unlikely that the TS will be willing to keep his FP updated and may never even realize that it has been bumped and needs to be updated. Asking the moderators to do this might make it more likely to happen but it could be an unmanageable job. I show over a page of modified posts in the N900 forum alone.
One thing that would be useful before bumping a topic is to define the bounds of a topic. For example, I would suggest that topics which refer to existing software should be restricted by version number. If I'm running Maemo-ABC v2.5.1, it might be of historic interest that v1.4.9 crashed if you went into offline mode but if it's not happening in the current version I don't really care. Questions, problems, comments, and suggestions tend to be version specific.
Hey, do you mind keeping this topic on topic? It's about writing sticky drafts for forums missing them.
If you volunteer drafting one, great. If not please discuss elsewhere. Thank you!
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