Maemo musician's thread... [Archive] - maemo.org

Munk

06-07-2009, 03:01 AM

Wow, cool thread.

I was just about to happily join in and share something created a few years back but then asked myself, "what about copyrights?" What if your song is in a crude unpolished state currently but someone takes it away and does well with it? Most people would not have copyrighted their material at this point and stand to lose any hopes of dreams or ambitions for the future.

Am I just getting too frazzled over nothing? What are the implications? Open source is one state of mind but when it comes to music, unless it is a collaboration then maybe we're just setting ourselves in danger. There's no way that what I was about to share is theft worthy but it just got me thinking. What do you folks think?

JayOnThaBeat

06-07-2009, 03:11 AM

Interesting point.

Many bands out there have MySpace's up, and are not signed, and probably haven't technically copyrighted their songs.

However, getting the music out there helps promote, which leads to signings, etc.

I wonder if the act of posting something on a time-dated site would help to prove ownership.

What a world we live in....

flareup

06-07-2009, 06:30 AM

[QUOTE=Munk;294386
What if your song is in a crude unpolished state currently but someone takes it away and does well with it? Most people would not have copyrighted their material at this point and stand to lose any hopes of dreams or ambitions for the future.
[/QUOTE]

copyright exists in a musical work pretty much at the moment of its creation - there is no real official "copyright process". When it is recorded, released, published, registered with a collection society (PRS in UK, ASCAP etc in USA), shown on tv, played on radio etc, all these things are really only "time stamps" that can show it existed in a particular form at that particular time.

Even then, as many lawsuits show, that work can be accused of being ripped off something else (currently that Coldplay tune, biggest ever probably George Harrison 'My Sweet Lord')

So, as for worrying about your own stuff being ripped off, well, a) - it does happen, sometimes! but b) the best way to stop it happening is to get it out there as much as possible, so people know you made it, and if it does happen, at least you might get something out of it via a legal claim ;)

in that spirit, here's a youtube of my own recent single :)

www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YxpNqtvTQw

Aisu

06-07-2009, 08:29 AM

I'd like to share, too :D

Beware, though... Sax is my forte, not classical guitar and bamboo flute... ;)

Dancing Funeral (http://74.170.137.105:8888/Tyler%20Longwell/DancingFuneral.mp3)

Enjoy!

zehjotkah

06-07-2009, 09:14 AM

i play piano and alt-saxophone

timsamoff

06-07-2009, 09:26 AM

Tim, what are expectations with this thread? Are you looking for people to just share their music, or were you also assuming there would be critiquing? Thanks for sharing, by the way. I get the the impression you have some nice equipment 'cause the EQ and frequency response sounded really good to me.

I guess a little of everything... But, I was really interested in hearing whomever was up for it. ;)

Oh, and to be honest, I recorded everything into my MacBook using the built-in mic. All of the eq was done in post. Funny what you can do with nothing these days, eh?

Tim

timsamoff

06-07-2009, 09:27 AM

IOU: $1 in your hat ;)
Why, thank you. :)

Tim

timsamoff

06-07-2009, 09:33 AM

copyright exists in a musical work pretty much at the moment of its creation...
This is true. But, it's helpful to add some sort of notice (I use CC for everything) if you publish an album.

But, my opinion was always that if someone liked one of my songs enough to copy it -- especially someone who actually has a name and would benefit financially from it -- it's sort of like flattery. Usually, though, if someone is famous enough (signed, contracted, etc.), they usually always take legal measures to ask the songwriter for permission to use, etc. I know several people who this has happened too. (Once I paid a fairly famous punk rock legend $100 to use a song, because no one could get in touch with the publishing company!)

Tim

timsamoff

06-07-2009, 10:20 AM

I'm in a band. We're called Escape Hatch. 2 .mp3's are up (so far).

http://www.escapehatchband.com

(I play the bass)
Nice work, Jay... I like it a lot!

Tim

timsamoff

06-07-2009, 10:23 AM

http://www.myspace.com/mfred
Cool. I like ambient, experimental stuff. Nice addition of some "orthodoxy" into the noise... You might like some of my older stuff:

http://myspace.com/adifferentkindofcop

Tim

timsamoff

06-07-2009, 10:24 AM

Dude........

http://www.indabamusic.com ... online music collaboration.

I can see it now... the Maemo All-Star Band!
Pretty cool. :)

Anyone want to try?

Tim

timsamoff

06-07-2009, 10:25 AM

...in that spirit, here's a youtube of my own recent single :)

www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YxpNqtvTQw

Very nice. You might also like the link I posted above!

Tim

timsamoff

06-07-2009, 10:27 AM

I'd like to share, too :D

Beware, though... Sax is my forte, not classical guitar and bamboo flute... ;)

Dancing Funeral (http://74.170.137.105:8888/Tyler%20Longwell/DancingFuneral.mp3)

Enjoy!
Other than a need for a metronome/click-track, this sounds great.

Tim

JayOnThaBeat

06-07-2009, 01:29 PM

Nice work, Jay... I like it a lot!

Tim

<invisible Thanks! button pressed>

JayOnThaBeat

06-07-2009, 01:31 PM

Pretty cool. :)

Anyone want to try?

Tim

I would need to steal my drummer's firewire box....

timsamoff

06-09-2009, 10:18 AM

Any others willing to share their musical talents with us? I was enjoying this thread while it lasted. ;)

Tim

Texrat

06-17-2009, 02:58 PM

Fun city!

Tim, you need to join my ragtag virtual gang ... :D

JayOnThaBeat

06-17-2009, 07:07 PM

Cool. I like ambient, experimental stuff. Nice addition of some "orthodoxy" into the noise... You might like some of my older stuff:

http://myspace.com/adifferentkindofcop

Tim

awesome. i just added you from my band's space.

Texrat

06-18-2009, 01:00 PM

I've been using Soundclick, but I want to check out other similar sites. Thanks for the info!

JayOnThaBeat

06-18-2009, 01:39 PM

I've been using Soundclick, but I want to check out other similar sites. Thanks for the info!

Thanks, you just gave me yet another networking site to sign my band up for!

buurmas

06-18-2009, 01:49 PM

I've been a "choir boy" pretty much all my life. I was also in a garage band in high school. I started out singing then moved to bass b/c it was hard rock & the singing hurt too much. :-) These days I'm only seriously interested in classical & jazz.

timsamoff

06-22-2009, 05:59 PM

Here's another one. It's called "Broken Frames." Again, this was quick-and-dirty, just to get the idea down. Don't expect too much on the production value. ;)

http://samoff.com/media/samoff-broken_frames.mp3

Tim

Texrat

06-26-2009, 12:25 PM

Benson

06-26-2009, 01:46 PM

This seems too good to be true: usb-drive based mixing software that can allegedly run on any OS (AJAX???).More likely Java, but could just as well be cross-compiled C++ or something. Whatever it is definitely has the ability to call native x86 libraries, as they mention optionally using lame.exe with it.
Challenge: get this to run on N800 or N810! Truly portable music production!Well, since it can use x86 code, I'd bet it does use it in some key function or other; not necessarily a show-stopper, but definitely a show-slower, given typical x86 emulation speed.

sjgadsby

06-26-2009, 02:04 PM

Well, since it can use x86 code, I'd bet it does use it in some key function or other; not necessarily a show-stopper, but definitely a show-slower, given typical x86 emulation speed.

Well, the Mac, non-"Plus" version runs on PowerPC (http://www.energy-xt.com/index.php?id=0200), but yeah, the non-"Plus" Linux version is an ELF binary. The "can be transported from computer to computer" stuff assumes standard desktops & notebooks only.

timsamoff

06-26-2009, 02:06 PM

This seems too good to be true: usb-drive based mixing software that can allegedly run on any OS (AJAX???).

http://www.guitarcenter.com/Behringer-energyXT2-5-Plus-Portable-Digital-Audio-Workstation-105348288-i1445249.gc?rel=email&source=4NL9FO&coupon=SHIPFREE&segment=guitars

Challenge: get this to run on N800 or N810! Truly portable music production!

EnergyXT (http://www.energy-xt.com/) is a pretty amazing piece of software... Download the trial version and watch it launch in less than a second -- seriously. I was considering purchasing it a while back. I could be wrong -- well, I mean, I probably am wrong -- but I seem to remember it being an AIR app. Hmmm...

Update: See? SJGadsby proved me wrong. ;)

Tim

Texrat

06-26-2009, 02:34 PM

Yeah, I figured as much. :(

Texrat

08-04-2009, 06:53 PM

Tim, just sent you an email!

hordeman

08-04-2009, 07:16 PM

Good to see this thread is going! Sorry I hadn't jumped in sooner --- been "asleep at the wheel" due to wedding and honeymoon planning.

In any case, a lot of you guys already know about my work (and have been awesomely supportive): http://www.mhalo.com

nwerneck

08-04-2009, 09:12 PM

I was in a number of bands recently. One of them was kind of "for fun" punk, Amídalas Lenhadas, I played bass. I had another band with my brother that was just me in the guitar and him on the drums, mostly instrumental songs, surf music and other stuff. We also had another larger rock band playing songs from bands like Sonics, Stooges and other classics, Rock Mountain Fever was the name. I wish I could get back playing...

The Amídalas songs were available at blip.fm, but it seems they are not there anymore. Maemo users might find it interesting that we had a song with a small calculator solo, performed by an HP-48G+. :)

qgil

08-05-2009, 01:14 AM

So... what about a jam session in the Maemo Summit?

I have seen jam sessions done by geeks and musicians alike since GUADEC 2006 and the result is always pretty cool and full of community feeling. Think about it.

Maemo Party at the summit (http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=30516)

timsamoff

08-05-2009, 03:29 PM

qole

08-10-2009, 02:38 PM

I'll toss a penny whistle into my luggage, just in case!

Justjoe

08-12-2009, 05:35 PM

Four songs from one of my bands circa 1993. It's me on guitar. These are pretty raw in form, so sometimes you'll hear a repeated verse or a missing guitar solo, as they were all under construction, (much like a good geocities page). We were recording on a six track in my basement, so the sound quality is far from perfect, but it's good, except for too much reverb on the vocals in some of the songs.

I'll put up some more if anyone cares to hear more.

http://www.myspace.com/yojofink

Joe.

JayOnThaBeat

08-12-2009, 07:07 PM

They've got an *AWESOME* 80's feel to em.

Good music is so hard to come by these days.

Four songs from one of my bands circa 1993. It's me on guitar. These are pretty raw in form, so sometimes you'll hear a repeated verse or a missing guitar solo, as they were all under construction, (much like a good geocities page). We were recording on a six track in my basement, so the sound quality is far from perfect, but it's good, except for too much reverb on the vocals in some of the songs.

I'll put up some more if anyone cares to hear more.

http://www.myspace.com/yojofink

Joe.

JayOnThaBeat

08-12-2009, 07:11 PM

Hey, I just remade my band's website (I just figured out CSS) and I have come to find that the music player is tablet friendly!

You gotta give it a second, but it does kick in!

http://www.escapehatchband.com

timsamoff

08-12-2009, 08:42 PM

Nice tracks, everyone! :)

Tim

brashley46

08-12-2009, 11:48 PM

I sing in a choir... Heh, never thought of me as a choir boy, eh?

Don't have anything online from any of the choirs I've been in, though...

Hee, I'm a chorister also. Look for Commonthreadchorus on YouTube.

I also play ocarina, and mountain dulcimer, but I have no sound samples for you guys. Yet. :p

brashley46

08-12-2009, 11:51 PM

Speaking of music, though, is there any half-decent recording software yet for Diablo?

qole

08-13-2009, 12:28 PM

The tablets just don't have the horsepower for decent recording. I expect the new device will have sufficient specs to do some good recording.

Den in USA

08-13-2009, 12:35 PM

The tablets just don't have the horsepower for decent recording. I expect the new device will have sufficient specs to do some good recording.

Two years ago when I got my N800, the Maemo Recorder picked up voices across the room. After OS updates, it somehow became less sensitive so I stopped using it.

qole

08-13-2009, 01:31 PM

The tablets can be used for recording voices, yes, but the quality just isn't there for music recording. Maybe with sufficient storage (a couple 32GB SD cards in an N800?), we could record decent quality uncompressed audio, but the tablets just don't have enough oompf to manipulate the audio in any way, like multi-tracking or whatever.

So I guess you could use the tablet like a microphone and record music, but you'd have to transfer it to a desktop computer to do anything with the audio.

TenSpeed

08-13-2009, 03:05 PM

Actually, capacity isn't the issue (as I'm sure you know). Stereo audio takes about 10MB/min when recorded at uncompressed, CD rates (16bit/44.1kHz). A pair of 32GB cards would give you about 100 hours of uncompressed recording time. Switching to 24/96 would cut that to a mere 35 hours or so (not that the device could resolve anything significantly better at those rates).

Then, of course, you'd need a bigger battery... :)

Texrat

08-13-2009, 03:49 PM

Yeah, latency is the biggest issue. Heck my dual Opteron workstation chokes on some of the audio I feed it-- tablets have a way to go before they can make respectable audio processors... but I can see it happening.

TenSpeed

08-13-2009, 04:08 PM

I'm hoping (and almost expecting) that Rover will be just fine with 16/44.1 stereo recording. The power shouldn't be an issue (I used to do this on a Mac IIx back in the day), so assuming it's possible to get quality audio in (specs say 16bit/48kHz) and that PulseAudio works as advertised, this might be the device that finally does the trick.

And about time, too... porting Audacity to the 770 was the reason I joined this rag-tag bunch, back in 2005. The good news is that there are now competent programmers here (unlike me!) who can likely make it happen. Exciting times!

Texrat

08-13-2009, 04:49 PM

Yeah, but I won't go below 24/44.1 and prefer no less than 24/88.2. Maybe another tablet generation or 3...

Audacity on a tablet though... ooo!

timsamoff

08-13-2009, 05:10 PM

I won't go below 24/44.1 and prefer no less than 24/88.2
You have very sensitive ears. :p

Tim

TenSpeed

08-13-2009, 05:53 PM

Who knows, it may be possible to use a class-compliant USB interface for the audio. Then 24/96 is no problem at all. You know, if you want to record music for bats, or whatever... :)

Seriously, I do all my projects in 24 bit (24/44.1), but very, very few mics/preamps/speakers work beyond 20kHz, so why waste the bandwidth? Unless you're doing special effects, in which case every bit helps (literally!).

TenSpeed

08-13-2009, 06:09 PM

On a different note, it's been reported that Les Paul passed away today at the age of 94.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/8200385.stm

For those unfamiliar with his work, Les Paul is credited with inventing the (solid-body) electric guitar, as well as the multi-track recorder.

Texrat

08-13-2009, 06:32 PM

2 words: Nyquist Theorem.

5 more: Rest in peace, Les Paul. :(

TenSpeed

08-13-2009, 08:14 PM

I'm totally with you on Les Paul - it's hard to imagine what modern music would have been like without him.

Not so convinced by the audio argument, however. The Nyquist Theorem just says that, to represent an audio signal digitally, you need to use double your highest audio frequency as the sample rate. So if you have amazing ears (I assume that you are an 8-year-old boy, right?) that can still hear to 20kHz, you need a 40kHz sample rate. So the standard CD rate of 44.1kHz should cover it, assuming an imperfect (non-brick-wall) filter at the top end. This is backed up by heaps of empirical testing; I've never seen well-executed research that could prove the merits of higher sampling rates.

Besides, most popular mics don't output past 20kHz, so you're wasting space recording data that isn't even there. At best, you're recording noise artifacts.

One redeeming feature about some (but not most) A-D converters that use higher sampling rates is reduced jitter, and there is some evidence that some listeners can hear the difference. But this just speaks to the merits of a better clock, as the reduced jitter is usually still there at lower sampling rates (when using the same equipment).

24 bit certainly makes sense, as you can back off the preamps, record more cleanly and with a lot more headroom, and have room to adjust things later in the mixing/mastering stage (where you'll almost always go back to 16 bit anyway, hopefully with some good dithering).

...Sorry for the Professor Audio lecture. I'll leave it there, and you can agree or not. Time to rock the evening away in a tribute to Les Paul. Where to begin? :)

nwerneck

08-13-2009, 11:47 PM

Not so convinced by the audio argument, however. The Nyquist Theorem just says that, to represent an audio signal digitally, you need to use double your highest audio frequency as the sample rate. So if you have amazing ears (I assume that you are an 8-year-old boy, right?) that can still hear to 20kHz, you need a 40kHz sample rate. So the standard CD rate of 44.1kHz should cover it, assuming an imperfect (non-brick-wall) filter at the top end. This is backed up by heaps of empirical testing; I've never seen well-executed research that could prove the merits of higher sampling rates.

Oh no! You guys started talking about the Nyquist theorem!! Now I'll have to say something about it!!! :D

The whole thing has a strong theoretical justification. If your signal is "brick wall" filtered, as you said, you can sample and then use this perfect filter to recreate the same exact analog signal, with no loss at all.

The problem is that filters, as you said again, are not always perfect. So it's always good to have some extra band. If you sample something that has too much power above the Nyquist frequency, you get aliasing. That means you introduce a noise in the signal, you add to the perfect signal some other fake signal. You can actually hear this aliasing noise sometimes. So it's not that the experts have good ears, and listen above the nyquist frequency, they are just listening to this audible noise generated by the aliasing because of the original inaudible signal.

And then there is the processing issue. As you said (one more time), when you start processing stuff these extra bits of precision may help preserving the quality of the signal you are producing. So, even if you are producing 16 bit audio, it's good to process it in 24. But I'm not sure actually recording stuff in more than 16 bits is possible, because it's very hard to get not only a decent microphone, but to build a room that quiet.

But the thing is: just as it is good to make your processing in 24 bits, it is also good to oversample it, because any filter which is not strictly linear will add some high frequencies to your signal, that would become aliasing noise. For strictly linear filters, trough, it makes very little sense. It might help a bit with rounding noise, but again, it might not be an issue.

Myself, I have lost almost a good octave from my hearing, I can't go much over 14kHz. Also, I usually listen to music in the streets anyway, so I've been recoding all my music collection with 16000 samples per second (8kHz limit). This is the double of the usual band of a telephone call... Goes with my crappy headphones, and save a lot of space in my SD cards. :)

Time to rock the evening away in a tribute to Les Paul. Where to begin? :)

I wish I knew his own music better. But if you want one of his customers, I would definitely start with the Zep... :)

There is a great Brazilian band called Os Mutantes whose lead singer Arnaldo Batista considers that only Gibson guitars can be used to make good music. He's passionate about it! (Actually, he's not quite sane :rolleyes:). His brother, Serginho, plays Fender, and together they embody the great guitar schism of the 20th century...

I can point you guys to my masters dissertation on electric guitars and distortions, it has some great graphics! :D

Texrat

08-13-2009, 11:51 PM

Even at age 48 I can hear WAY up and out there. That includes those cell phone rings designed for teens and the frequencies designed to scare them off. ;) It's a mixed blessing/curse. Bats are jealous. :D

But I just like having overhead upstream. Still, I rarely sample over 48 anyway. And I have yet to hear an MP3 that matches what can be done with 24 bit WAV. They always sound brittle to me.

Oh, and I installed a new soundcard tonight so I feel much closer to true electronic musicianship...lol. It's an Audiotrak Prodigy 7.1 HiFi and MAN does it blow away the old Creative X-Fi gamer card I had... and a bargain at $130.

Hey TenSpeed-- did you hear the song I just put up in my "Hillbilly" thread? The new vocalist working with me is awesome. :)

Texrat

08-13-2009, 11:53 PM

And then there is the processing issue. As you said (one more time), when you start processing stuff these extra bits of precision may help preserving the quality of the signal you are producing. So, even if you are producing 16 bit audio, it's good to process it in 24. But I'm not sure actually recording stuff in more than 16 bits is possible, because it's very hard to get not only a decent microphone, but to build a room that quiet.D

Most of my work involves rendering midi direct to WAV. No external room required. ;)

timsamoff

08-13-2009, 11:58 PM

Is it wrong of me to wonder if my autographed Les Paul t-shirt will be worth anything?

Tim

Texrat

08-14-2009, 12:03 AM

Is it wrong of me to wonder if my autographed Les Paul t-shirt will be worth anything?

Tim

In your situation? Heck no. It could put food on the table man.

Fontus

08-14-2009, 09:01 AM

Recently I did some research to reconstruct the intervals in the scales of the Byzantine music (the old Byzantine music, not the modern Greek ecclesiastical music, although it turned out the scales are pretty much close). In order to satisfy my curiosity, when I completed my theory, I decided to play something using zynaddsubfx (http://zynaddsubfx.sourceforge.net/). And despite my poor musical abilities :o many friends asked me to give them the mp3s. This music is so much different from anything we hear today!

I played some modern ecclesiastical interpretation of the Byzantine music but in order to imagine the sounding of the real Byzantine music, you should know that the Byzantines considered the organ their national instrument. Two organs played simultaneously in the court of the Emperor. These organs however did not have a keyboard, so the playing style must have been similar to what is demonstrated in the the following clip on youtube: Persian piano solo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrGp4W1G9SM).

The files are here:

http://lml.bas.bg/~anton/Byzantine/pachymeres-1.mp3
http://lml.bas.bg/~anton/Byzantine/pachymeres-2.mp3
http://lml.bas.bg/~anton/Byzantine/pachymeres-3.mp3
http://lml.bas.bg/~anton/Byzantine/pachymeres-5.mp3
http://lml.bas.bg/~anton/Byzantine/pachymeres-8.mp3

The file names are because the calculation of the intervals in the scales is based on information provided by the Byzantine scholar George Pachymeres (1242 – c.1310).

TenSpeed

08-14-2009, 10:55 AM

Damn, I wish we could give Thanks in this forum.

Thanks, nwerneck! I'll have to look up your thesis - maybe I can make the students in my Research Methods course find it (I teach, part-time, at a faculty of music). I completely agree with you, especially when it comes to quiet recording spaces. I've actually been adding some carefully selected noise to recordings lately, to mask little problems in the audio chain. The best advice I've heard is "do an amazing performence", in which case no one will notice the recording quality! :)

Thanks, Texrat! I haven't listened to the new song, but will do so today. I certainly agree with you on the sound of MP3s - I bought new studio monitor speakers last year (Genelec), and now most of my music collection sounds like crap... unless I play the original, non-MP3 files.

And Thanks, Fontus! I love singing early music, especially trying to stay true to the original tuning. If you're interested in alternative scales and tuning systems, check out Scala <http://www.huygens-fokker.org/scala/>. Powerful stuff!

I love that there are so many skilled, capable musicians involved in Maemo. It's a (barely) hidden strength of the project.

I'll have to give the Byzantine music a listen in a few minutes, when this MASSIVE thunderstorm goes past. Same for the new hillbilly music - can't miss that! (hmm, that's an interesting mix...)

I've been working on some multitracked vocal music lately (just like Qole, I'm a choir guy), but it's far from done. Too busy with my other recording project, creating audio lectures for work (in Cultural Enterprise, or the business of culture). Anyway, I'll post the vocal stuff this autumn, if/when I find time to get it done.

Texrat

08-14-2009, 02:32 PM

Actually the last song I posted isn't remotely hillbilly...lol. But the overall porject is country & western oriented.

I'm working with the new singer on a style I'm calling "Western Soul"... :D

Oh, and I am always looking for more vocalists, especially for Eagles-style harmony work. If anyone is interested by all means let me know!

qole

08-14-2009, 06:16 PM

Recently I did some research to reconstruct the intervals in the scales of the Byzantine music (the old Byzantine music, not the modern Greek ecclesiastical music, although it turned out the scales are pretty much close). In order to satisfy my curiosity, when I completed my theory, I decided to play something using zynaddsubfx (http://zynaddsubfx.sourceforge.net/). And despite my poor musical abilities :o many friends asked me to give them the mp3s. This music is so much different from anything we hear today!

I played some modern ecclesiastical interpretation of the Byzantine music but in order to imagine the sounding of the real Byzantine music, you should know that the Byzantines considered the organ their national instrument. Two organs played simultaneously in the court of the Emperor. These organs however did not have a keyboard, so the playing style must have been similar to what is demonstrated in the the following clip on youtube: Persian piano solo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrGp4W1G9SM).

That is seriously weird to my western ears. I'm familiar with middle eastern intervals, and those ones sound all "off-key" to my ears -- mostly a little flat, some a little sharp...

But I see what you mean about sounding similar to modern Eastern Orthodox music...

I notice that there's a drone constantly playing. Was this organ that they used something like the bagpipes?

Fontus

08-15-2009, 05:56 AM

That is seriously weird to my western ears. I'm familiar with middle eastern intervals, and those ones sound all "off-key" to my ears -- mostly a little flat, some a little sharp...

But I see what you mean about sounding similar to modern Eastern Orthodox music...No, the sounding of this Persian piano is different from the sounding of the Byzantine music. When I wrote the "style" is similar I meant that the musician played on the piano with only two fingers. The Byzantine organs (and all old organs) had no keyboards. These organs were small and the musicians used the palm of their hands to close the pipes of the organs.

I notice that there's a drone constantly playing. Was this organ that they used something like the bagpipes?This is unlikely - as far as I know the earliest mentioning of a drone is from the period near the fall of the Empire.

By comparison of the music of various people living today in the territory of the Byzantine empire I suppose that one of the organs played the main melody and this melody has single melodic line (no harmonization). The second organ served as an accompaniment - at times this could be simply a drone. Here is another youtube clip that demonstrates one possible method for the accompaniment (but the sounding again is very different from the sounding of the Byzantine music):Mugham from Azerbaijan (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNw6p9ogw1I). Notice that the singer is improvising but this doesn't mean the musicians have to use some trivial accompaniment like the drone. Something similar happens with the moder jazz music.

qole

08-16-2009, 12:20 AM

Fontus: I was talking about your mp3s, not the Persian guy playing with two fingers... Your mp3s have a drone in them, and they're the ones that sound weird and flat to my ears.

Fontus

08-16-2009, 07:17 AM

Fontus: I was talking about your mp3sI see. :) There is some controversy about how the Byzantine musical texts have to be interpreted. My mp3s contain some modern ecclesiastical music played with the tuning of George Pachymeres (1242 – 1310). Thats why there is drone.

The intervals in the diatonic tetrachord of Pachymeres are 231-139-128 cents (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cent_(music)). For comparison in 1881 a commission measured the intervals of the Greek ecclesiastical chant to be 204-168-133 and the traditional Arabic tuning is 204-151-143.

daperl

09-27-2009, 01:28 PM

I'm going to preach, 'cause this is about soul.

If you're in a band with guitar(s), bass, drums and vocals:

Even though the writer(s), vocalist(s) and guitarist(s) are usually the band leaders, the drummer and the bassist have full charge of the rhythm. The drummer and the bassist don't play with the guitarist and the vocalist, the guitarist and the vocalist play with the drummer and the bassist. The rhythm section produces the "cool." The "cool" confidently says to the others, "Hey, we'll be right here, follow us or not, but we're not going anywhere, we'll be right here." If the vocalist and the guitarist feel they have to control the rhythm, everything usually suffers. The rhythm section produces the sandbox for the others to play in. And they don't take rhythm orders from anybody. The guitarist(s) and vocalist(s) usually write everything, but the drummer and bassist have to take ownership of the rhythm. Period. It's the only thing that matters in their job description. And... I'll stop now.

Sorry, I had to get that off my chest.

daperl

09-27-2009, 02:58 PM

In a perfect world, maybe.

We have a vox/git and a lead git.

Almost all of our songs are very guitar-driven somehow... it is a departure from what I had been previously used to.

I dig your stuff, but your drummer has to make a stand. Your singer is rushing the rest of you, and he's having breathing problems during the fast stuff. He needs to take some of the load off of himself by trusting the rest of you. He must give up rhythm control. Or you and the drummer are gonna have to take it. He will follow, but he needs to be convinced that he has a safety net.

Texrat

09-27-2009, 03:05 PM

Gotta agree with daperl. There's a reason the Atlanta Rhythm Section was so named, and why (for a while in the good old days) they were immensely popular. Ahhh, those grooves...

wesgreen

09-27-2009, 08:58 PM

Gotta agree with daperl. There's a reason the Atlanta Rhythm Section was so named, and why (for a while in the good old days) they were immensely popular. Ahhh, those grooves...
ideally everone would have strong time and no one has to lean on anybody. then you could have one guy playing on top of the beat and one guy just behind it, and the tension that creates can be really great. (see the meters, the wailers, booker t. and the mgs, art blakey with various bass players aso.)

Texrat

09-27-2009, 09:14 PM

Good point wesgreen. In fact ARS is a great example of that.

TA-t3

09-28-2009, 08:13 AM

[..]the drummer and the bassist have full charge of the rhythm. The drummer and the bassist don't play with the guitarist and the vocalist, the guitarist and the vocalist play with the drummer and the bassist[..]
Agreed. There's the Rolling Stones exception though, where a certain guitarist drives the whole thing.

qole

09-28-2009, 01:24 PM

wesgreen: But the rhythm section needs to be solid and in control, otherwise nobody can create any of that tension. Just like a bow, you can't pull the string if the bow isn't strong.

overfloat

10-13-2009, 03:44 AM

So I installed LMMS......and then this happened... http://sadviolin.com/song3.mp3

There's not enough upbeat music around these days.... (says the guy that made http://sadviolin.com)

Addison

10-13-2009, 09:50 PM

If anyone needs more cowbell in any of their songs, I'm available for hire.

You can never have enough cowbell. :D

overfloat

10-14-2009, 01:08 AM

I think I'm developing unnatural feelings for LMMS, it is way better than I remember Adobe Audition ever being - my latest: http://sadviolin.com/song4-a.mp3

Stonik

03-05-2011, 11:21 AM

I uploaded an old song to Dropbox for you to listen, and if you need some background music for Maemo or MeeGo related videos(or games?) feel free to use this piece. Just send me a private message so I know where it goes.

The song is called "Zero" and the artist name back then was "Slychild". Inspired by the Motion Picture Matrix, the fight scenes, obviously. :)
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/12209592/Slychild%20-%20Zero.mp3

I'm a professional musician and there are plenty of newer songs, but due to copyright reasons I can't share them with you. I can, however, upload some of the older works if someone is interested!

Dancairo

03-05-2011, 12:07 PM

Had a read through this thread as the title grabbed me, some interesting links and music here...
In the words of Monty Python - "And now for something completely different", well sort of:-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76z7nZQS9MM

I'm only in the vid for a few seconds, around 1:42 and only a side view, but with a lovely hat! ;-)

keflex

03-05-2011, 03:31 PM

Been writing music for close to 5 years now, still not really very good at it but I'm getting there.

http://www.soundcloud.com/keflex

Got an EP for free download; 'Ledge' got featured on the latest compilation by New Weird Australia. Anyway it's loosely witch house-inspired, let me know what you think.

tyrian89

03-09-2011, 06:25 AM

Just thought I'd include some stuff I've done in case anyone's interested.

http://soundcloud.com/tyrian89/wage-slaves-zoom-g9-2tt-tone-test2

And some random older stuff on here

http://www.youtube.com/user/Tyrian1987

Let me know what you guys think please.

Thanks!

trompkins

03-09-2011, 04:45 PM

I played some modern ecclesiastical interpretation of the Byzantine music but in order to imagine the sounding of the real Byzantine music, you should know that the Byzantines considered the organ their national instrument. Two organs played simultaneously in the court of the Emperor. These organs however did not have a keyboard, so the playing style must have been similar to what is demonstrated in the the following clip on youtube: Persian piano solo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrGp4W1G9SM).

Ooooh! Thanks for inadvertantly pointing me in the direction of Dr. Lloyd Miller (http://www.youtube.com/user/LloydDocMiller#p/u/24/oX5aZsmOTRE)! What a great music...