Nokia Spy Technology?

[geneven]

There are claims all over #IranElection, the Twitter group where I've been hanging out obsessively for days, that Nokia sold technology that helps the government spy on people.

True? What exactly is it?

[gerbick]

It's true - http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/apr/13/europe39s-telecoms-aid-with-spy-tech/

[JustNick]

So what?
It's something legally sold, I don't see a problem...
The point is that as soon as you use a way of communication you leave a trace, so to avoid being spied you should avoid communicating...
If you fight for your own rights you must be prepared to face challenging events, not complain that some neutral foreign company sold something that could make your fight more complex...
Beside when there was no cell phone technology... heck even when there was no telephony at all, no technology, spies were used, so one way or another the risk of being controlled has always been present...

[benny1967]

So what?
It's something legally sold, I don't see a problem...

i envy you.



another source is
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124562668777335653.html

German speaking readers can try
http://derstandard.at/fs/1244461146648/Iranische-Internet-Zensur-Mit-freundlicher-Unterstuetzung-europaeischer-Konzerne

The problem that we face (at least in europe) is that right now, governments in germany, france and other european countries are restricting free internet access under very dubious excuses (child pornography, copyrights,...).
whatever the technology behind this is and whoever (legally) sells them is irrelevant.

we will see these mechanisms turn against citizens for political reasons, i tell you so. (actually, the whole "intellectual property"-propaganda already is a political thing).
don't only look at what's happening in iran. the same thing's starting in western europe. (and to be honest, i don't care at all if the technical infrastructure is by nokia or siemens or mcdonald's... i just don't want this kind of thing to happen at all.)

EDIT I: it seems nokia no longer sells the technology used in iran; they sold the whole business to the munich based company Perusa Partners in march 2009.

EDIT II: interesting that a nokia siemens spokesperson didn't even deny the deal with the regime in teheran, stating that this is the internationally accepted way to fight "child pornography, terrorism and drugs". - see?

[JustNick]

The problem that we face (at least in europe) is that right now, governments in germany, france and other european countries are restricting free internet access under very dubious excuses (child pornography, copyrights,...).
whatever the technology behind this is and whoever (legally) sells them is irrelevant.

we will see these mechanisms turn against citizens for political reasons, i tell you so. (actually, the whole "intellectual property"-propaganda already is a political thing).
don't only look at what's happening in iran. the same thing's starting in western europe. (and to be honest, i don't care at all if the technical infrastructure is by nokia or siemens or mcdonald's... i just don't want this kind of thing to happen at all.)

THAT is the problem: the use of technology, not technology itself.
My answer was mostly directed to the title of the thread itself: Nokia Spy Technology? Not really...
Freedom comes with limits, sometimes there's somebody who thinks there's too much freedom, sometimes there's somebody who wants more of it...
Technology, (like weapons), is just something that can be used to achieve freedom, to defend it or to reduce or even suppress it.
I can see what you're talking about, I live in Italy and sure we don't have much to be happy for, still when somebody points out that with all the technology there is in our lives it's like we're always spied, I usually reply that the problem is not technology but the use people make of it.

[ragnar]

http://images.intomobile.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/getsmart-shoe-phone.jpg

[geneven]

Well, I have another book to wish for!

For a long time I've been wanting to see the (defunct) Bush Administration rewrite The Gulag Archipelago, explaining that many treatments of prisoners mentioned in that book aren't really torture.

Now I'll like to see a rewrite by Nokia of 1984, explaining why much of the invasive technology in that book is really fine and proper.

[YoDude]

i envy you.



another source is
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124562668777335653.html

German speaking readers can try
http://derstandard.at/fs/1244461146648/Iranische-Internet-Zensur-Mit-freundlicher-Unterstuetzung-europaeischer-Konzerne

The problem that we face (at least in europe) is that right now, governments in germany, france and other european countries are restricting free internet access under very dubious excuses (child pornography, copyrights,...).
whatever the technology behind this is and whoever (legally) sells them is irrelevant.

we will see these mechanisms turn against citizens for political reasons, i tell you so. (actually, the whole "intellectual property"-propaganda already is a political thing).
don't only look at what's happening in iran. the same thing's starting in western europe. (and to be honest, i don't care at all if the technical infrastructure is by nokia or siemens or mcdonald's... i just don't want this kind of thing to happen at all.)

EDIT I: it seems nokia no longer sells the technology used in iran; they sold the whole business to the munich based company Perusa Partners in march 2009.

EDIT II: interesting that a nokia siemens spokesperson didn't even deny the deal with the regime in teheran, stating that this is the internationally accepted way to fight "child pornography, terrorism and drugs". - see?


Thanks for this ^ insight...


...don't only look at what's happening in iran. the same thing's starting in western europe. (and to be honest, i don't care at all if the technical infrastructure is by nokia or siemens or mcdonald's... i just don't want this kind of thing to happen at all.)


Agreed, but trade is often the first repressed freedom in a restrictive society. Legislating morality and what Nokia, Siemens, or McDonald's sells will open the door for even more restrictions.

Me? I'm thinkin' old school printing presses will soon be popular again. :)

[attila77]

http://images.intomobile.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/getsmart-shoe-phone.jpg

Good one ! Which Nokia model is this ? :D

[EIPI]

The first 'Smart' phone, obviously.

[YoDude]

Good one ! Which Nokia model is this ? :D

I hope that the situation in Iran is resolved peacefully.

I also hope that ragnar's humorous response is not indicative of Nokia's take on the situation. They should be in full damage control mode right now.


http://s.wsj.net/public/resources/images/P1-AQ392_A1_SUB_D_20090621183859.jpg



I'm not trying to be a spoil sport, just a concerned stock holder...

[jeremiah]

I would not believe anything you read in the Washington Times. That organ is a notably poor source of information.

As to whether Nokia sold tools to monitor networks or not, that discussion will lead you down a rabbit hole of rumor and conjecture.

The single most important thing we can do, all of us, regardless of where we live, is to make sure our human rights are respected and protected by law. Then any and all abrogation of those rights can be prosecuted.

Until human rights are enshrined by law, nations will continue to be the enemy of the people.

[OVK]

I'm not trying to be a spoil sport, just a concerned stock holder...


Of Nokia Siemens Networks? I would be more concerned about them purchasing Nortel, that might have more impact on their stock rate.

Nokia, on the other hand, has very little to do with this Iran case. Or nothing to do with puchasing Nortel.

[ragnar]

Yes, NSN is a completely separate company now, so "the Nokia sword" doesn't really apply well here.

Any way, I certainly don't want to start any political discussions. What is a terrorist to one man is a freedom fighter to another. What is government acquiring tools to fight against crime and corruption to somebody is government acquiring tools to spy and to oppress to somebody else. People live in glass houses and are still eager to throw rocks around.

Basically, as somebody else here already said, technology can be used for "good" and for "evil" - if somebody still believes in good and evil being absolutes. I personally for one do not.

[luca]

You should read the Black book on brand companies (http://www.markenfirmen.com/english/book.htm) to see how good siemens are (they don't mention nokia, but I saw a documentary and they're not exacly angels either).

[mikkov]

You should read the Black book on brand companies (http://www.markenfirmen.com/english/book.htm) to see how good siemens are (they don't mention nokia, but I saw a documentary and they're not exacly angels either).

I think that the "spy technology" was actually originally a Siemens product.

[qole]

Me? I'm thinkin' old school printing presses will soon be popular again. :)

I think 2048-bit encryption should be what's popular again.

It seems to me that one of the most important things about the new oFono telephony stack is the opportunity for developers to add encryption to voice communications.

Hopefully average people will be able to encrypt their voice calls soon.

EDIT AGAIN:

Deep packet inspection involves inserting equipment into a flow of online data, from emails and Internet phone calls to images and messages on social-networking sites such as Facebook and Twitter. Every digitized packet of online data is deconstructed, examined for keywords and reconstructed within milliseconds. In Iran's case, this is done for the entire country at a single choke point, according to networking engineers familiar with the country's system.

The easy way around this is having an encrypted tunnel to a proxy server outside of the country. If you live in a country with a "national firewall", like Saudi, China, Iran, etc, you need to assume they're reading your mail and scanning your online communications. Doesn't matter who sold them the equipment, they're going to find a way.

[attila77]

I think 2048-bit encryption should be what's popular again.

TFA was referring to (non-VoIP) phones. And as for encryption, as long as there is not a sufficient amount of people using encryption to increase noise, it won't help you. If you ARE afraid of the regime in such a state, encryption will not only NOT help you, but will, in fact, put a giant SUSPICIOUS ELEMENT marker above your head. They don't need to break the encryption. 'None of your business' is a notoriusly bad excuse in police-states, so they just visit you and ask what was the stuff that was encrypted. And such visits are those that you wanted to avoid in the first place.

[gerbick]

Pretty blase attitude from most concerning this.

But then again, I didn't see a lot of fuss about AT&T and the NSA's spying tech (http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2007/11/att-whistle-blo/) either.

I know that my convos have nothing to worry about, I'd bore somebody.

[timsamoff]

The first 'Smart' phone, obviously.

Where's the rimshot (http://instantrimshot.com/) when I need one?!

Tim

[qole]

TFA was referring to (non-VoIP) phones.

Actually, no, it was deep packet inspection, according to the WSJ article on the same subject. That's Internet communications.

[kotzkind]

Spy technology is used in every country of this world.
Iran is evil and so it doesn't have the right to get spy technology? You can't forbid Iran everything. They also have criminals, which they have to spy upon.

I think it's the job of the governments of the other countries, to prevent to much dangerous technology getting into states like iran and north korea

[sondjata]

Iran poses a military threat to whom? Iraq who was supplied with arms from..ahem.."western countries"? US who's out of missile range (at the very minimum)? Meanwhile the US has dropped nukes on who? Run up in how many countries? Exactly WHO has drones killing civilians in Afghanistan and Pakistan?

And what country supplies weapons to a certain Mid-East Country that uses said weapons on a colonized people who's most sophisticated weapon is a home made RPG?

I have my issues with Iran, NK, etc, but WTF people, post like you know some history.Sheeeet!

[geneven]

Iran poses a threat to its own people.

Why does everyone think that listing something bad someone else is doing defends against the first charge?

If you are caught shoplifting, try talking about serial killers and how bad they are.

If the US is guilty of crimes (which I don't concede), that doesn't mean Iran's citizens, when possible, shouldn't be defended against lesser crimes, such as unsafe cars, or intrusive spy technology.

And just because "in the long run" you can't stop technology from doing something bad, that doesn't mean that SHORT RUN you can't do some protecting.

And just because you can't stop SOMEONE from doing action X is no reason YOU should be allowed to do action X.

There is no reason to hand machine guns over to kids just because technology can be used for good or bad purposes -- kids aren't appropriate people to be possessing such technology.

Countries that are a little less respectful of human rights than us can be kept from OUR PROVIDING them certain technology -- there is nothing wrong with that.

[YoDude]

I think 2048-bit encryption should be what's popular again.

It seems to me that one of the most important things about the new oFono telephony stack is the opportunity for developers to add encryption to voice communications.

Hopefully average people will be able to encrypt their voice calls soon.

EDIT AGAIN:



The easy way around this is having an encrypted tunnel to a proxy server outside of the country. If you live in a country with a "national firewall", like Saudi, China, Iran, etc, you need to assume they're reading your mail and scanning your online communications. Doesn't matter who sold them the equipment, they're going to find a way.

No doubt...

...and thanks.

***

As far as my comment about Nokia stock. It was made when I first fired up my connection this AM... it is also at this time that I make any changes in my very small investment portfolio.

It really doesn't much matter who's responsible for what. The statement "The world is watching", the images of violent oppression, and the name "Nokia" appearing in reader headlines about Iran this morning has an impact on a collective conscience and any damage should be managed, imho. :)

***

As far as the events themselves, it is also mho they will most certainly affect the world community in a profound way.
Governments like Brazil, Russia, India, and China with very large, new or soon to be connected populations may be rethinking a few things right now.

BTW, Does anybody know if there is a HAM radio community in Iran?

[sondjata]

Iran poses a threat to its own people.

Why does everyone think that listing something bad someone else is doing defends against the first charge?

If you are caught shoplifting, try talking about serial killers and how bad they are.

If the US is guilty of crimes (which I don't concede), that doesn't mean Iran's citizens, when possible, shouldn't be defended against lesser crimes, such as unsafe cars, or intrusive spy technology.

And just because "in the long run" you can't stop technology from doing something bad, that doesn't mean that SHORT RUN you can't do some protecting.

And just because you can't stop SOMEONE from doing action X is no reason YOU should be allowed to do action X.

There is no reason to hand machine guns over to kids just because technology can be used for good or bad purposes -- kids aren't appropriate people to be possessing such technology.

Countries that are a little less respectful of human rights than us can be kept from OUR PROVIDING them certain technology -- there is nothing wrong with that.

Dude you are so out of it, that I almost feel that the response would be a waste of my time and effort. Iran is a sovereign nation that can buy and sell what it likes just like any other country.

But since you're so concerned about Deep packet inspection by the Mullahs, I hope your just as concerned about the white phosphorus, and other munitions used in Gaza against civilians.

[geneven]

Thanks, sondjata, I hope it helped you to insult me.

You say, "Dude you are so out of it, that I almost feel that the response would be a waste of my time and effort. Iran is a sovereign nation that can buy and sell what it likes just like any other country."

Can you explain why we are obligated to sell things to Iran if we don't want to?

You say that Iran has the right to buy and sell what it likes. This sounds like an absolute right. Does that overrule our right to choose who we sell to?

I am sure you have an overwhelming answer to these questions ready, but don't go to too much trouble -- after all, you have already noted that I am a hopeless case.

[attila77]

Actually, no, it was deep packet inspection, according to the WSJ article on the same subject. That's Internet communications.

Err... well, there is obviously a large 'spread' on the specifics... the original link pointed to tap phone lines, email and IM... but now has electronic data... oh well.

I think it's the job of the governments of the other countries, to prevent to much dangerous technology getting into states like iran and north korea

As the history of modern tech embargoes tells us, these countries WILL get the tech anyway (with the exception of leading edge military and nuclear). At that point, your choices are between bad (selling them the stuff and breaking the news, warning everybody about it through a 'leak') and even worse (pretend you don't know that they will buy it from someone else and let them unleash it on unsuspecting people). Whether NSN was the bad or worse in this case... your call.

Also, don't mix Goverment and State. Those are very different things.

[Texrat]

This sort of arguemnt goes nowhere, and fast.

The sad fact is that many nations abuse their citizens, including the US, Iran, and others too numerous to mention. The sad fact is that many people support an open, global market unless of course that market includes nations they don't like. The sad fact is that there is no single nation with the absolute moral authority (or imperative for that matter) to dictate who gets what. The sad fact is we rely on the United Nations to arbitrate such things, and that body has apparently abdicated such responsibilities (thanks in large part of the dominating and misnamed Security Council).

The sad fact is that this is an imperfect world.

[YoDude]

This sort of arguemnt goes nowhere, and fast.

The sad fact is that many nations abuse their citizens, including the US, Iran, and others too numerous to mention. The sad fact is that many people support an open, global market unless of course that market includes nations they don't like. The sad fact is that there is no single nation with the absolute moral authority (or imperative for that matter) to dictate who gets what. The sad fact is we rely on the United Nations to arbitrate such things, and that body has apparently abdicated such responsibilities (thanks in large part of the dominating and misnamed Security Council).

The sad fact is that this is an imperfect world.

Yup... so we all should just mind our own business and move on...


or;


In response to the negative implications of this thread, point out that the majority of live or current information from the ground, the tweets coming from individuals who are involved, originated on Nokia made devices. As a community we could also develop and post possible mobile solutions to the alternative communication means that qole posted about.

However, it's pro'ly easier just to move on. After all, it's not happening here...










...yet. :eek:



(@ Texrat. The above^ was not directed at you. Your post just provided the thread continuity that I used to post my rhetoric. Thanks! :) )

[ragnar]

The same alternative communication methods you create for Iranian dissidents you also create for your local "terrorists, pedophiles and drug traffickers" (or whatever you consider to be 'evil'). It's hard to take your pick.

[attila77]

The sad fact is that there is no single nation with the absolute moral authority (or imperative for that matter) to dictate who gets what.

Still not sure if that's good or bad. As most in things in life, probably both, leaning to one side or the other depending on actual circumstances.

[allnameswereout]

IIRC it was Microsoft who does same for China web filter (they don't like pornography in China). It would only work on Windows btw. Because this is international, and the corporation functions internationally, they have no legal obligation towards EU or US or whatever. And because its a for profit corporation, it has no ethics other than serve those who make money of it (ie. shareholders). Ethics are always secondary, at best. And remember that even if there is appropriate law, it has to be applied (think: Microsoft).

In Germany, a DNS-based Great_Firewall_Of_China is voted for, to be used for... well whatever they see fit. Without law being applied. We'd call this censorship; and it is ineffective in practice. In Finland this already exists too. And we also see plans of DPI being planned to use for all kind of stuff.

These news items about Iran and China have an important purpose. To make us feel we are living free, and that we feel good about our own situation, but our freedom too is very relative.

One thing I know for sure. Mielke dreamed of these technologies applied nowadays...

[EDIT: Das Leben der Anderen (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0405094/)]

[YoDude]

The same alternative communication methods you create for Iranian dissidents you also create for your local "terrorists, pedophiles and drug traffickers" (or whatever you consider to be 'evil'). It's hard to take your pick.

Then net neutrality (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_neutrality) is the issue and not goverments using purchased technology to opress opposition.

[geneven]

None of the above answer my point, which is that we have the right not to sell any technology we don't want to sell. Many evils are inevitable, but we don't have to commit them.

I'm sure that child prostitution can't be eradicated in the near future, and there are children in the world desperate or helpless enough to be found for the purpose, but we don't have to rent out our kids.

It's also irrefutable that technology can be slowed down, when it has evil consequences. Maybe it's inevitable that we will all have nukes in our garages someday, but restrictions now in place are fairly effective -- I don't have a bomb in my garage, anyway. (The argument for making them widely available would of course be, "when law-abiding folks can't have nukes, only criminals will have nukes!")

People who make their living selling, using and fixing technology have a self-interested reason for claiming that technology is inevitable. But history shows that it can certainly be slowed down.

It's also true that much technology has a technology antidote. That's basically what encryption is, for example -- a defense against privacy invasion with other technology.

[attila77]

None of the above answer my point, which is that we have the right not to sell any technology we don't want to sell. Many evils are inevitable, but we don't have to commit them.

If you want talk about sex with your kids, somebody else will. You won't commit any evil, but the end result might be worse than if you did. Quite a dilemma.

It's also irrefutable that technology can be slowed down, when it has evil consequences. Maybe it's inevitable that we will all have nukes in our garages someday, but restrictions now in place are fairly effective -- I don't have a bomb in my garage, anyway.

It's not about nukes which are (relatively) easy to track and monitor. Even the smallest regime can spare a million or two for SINGLE system like this one. The only thing you can slow down is the general availability of technology to PEOPLE in a state. And that's why all embargoes in the end hurt the population far more than any government.

It's also true that much technology has a technology antidote. That's basically what encryption is, for example -- a defense against privacy invasion with other technology.

You underestimate repressive governments. They don't break codes. They break people.

[YoDude]

...As far as my comment about Nokia stock. It was made when I first fired up my connection this AM... it is also at this time that I make any changes in my very small investment portfolio.

It really doesn't much matter who's responsible for what. The statement "The world is watching", the images of violent oppression, and the name "Nokia" appearing in reader headlines about Iran this morning has an impact on a collective conscience and any damage should be managed, imho. :)

***



Imagine that. >> http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2009/06/nokia-siemens-boycott/


Also posted today...


The mandatory requirement that all computers sold in China carry security software has caused a stir among Chinese Internet users. Officially, the purpose of the Green Dam-Youth Escort software is to shield kids from online pornography, but most China watchers expect Beijing to use the program to block access to sensitive political and social online resources that the regime considers dangerous. The program is designed to thwart not just the browsing of undesired content, but also attempts to create unwanted content—it would shut down your word-processing program if the novel you're writing contains too many illicit words. And it can learn new words too, automatically installing updates to its text and image vocabularies.

[attila77]

Actually, no, it was deep packet inspection, according to the WSJ article on the same subject. That's Internet communications.

FWIW Here's what I was referring to - you be judge if this is really it or just damage control:


A spokesman for Nokia Siemens Networks, however, said the Journal got the story wrong, and that the system it installed in Iran late last year is incapable of conducting deep-packet inspection of internet communications — or conducting any internet surveillance at all. The company said it installed a cell phone network in Iran, and like all modern telecom switches, the equipment includes a capability that allows the government to conduct wiretaps of telephone calls made from targeted numbers.

Telecommunication companies in the United States and other countries are required to provide this so-called “lawful intercept” capability so that domestic law enforcement agencies can eavesdrop on calls to investigate criminal activity. “Lawful,” of course, means different things in different countries. In the U.S. such interception generally requires a court order.

“There’s a lot of misinformation out there about this,” wrote spokesman Ben Roome in an e-mail to Threat Level. “But we do not provide any web or internet monitoring or filtering. We do provide the capability for millions of Iranians to communicate via mobile networks, and as part of this provide voice call lawful intercept capability. Mobile networks are not allowed to be built in Iran (and most other countries) without this feature. It is part of telecoms network architecture.”

[mikkov]

FWIW Here's what I was referring to - you be judge if this is really it or just damage control:

NSN sold the deep packet inspection development to some other company last year...

[qole]

Well, if the "spy technology" that everyone is talking about is a standard-issue wireless phone switch that includes the ability to "wiretap" a phone, then what the heck is all the fuss about? Seriously? Wiretapping is "spy tech" and somehow unexpected and evil?

If it is about deep packet inspection, then yes, that's spy tech (but still should not be unexpected). Wiretapping capability is not spy tech, that's standard issue.

[quipper8]

its funny, in the current edition of time inn the Briefinng Section there is a photo of a woman, obviously a Mousavi supporter holding up an N96 taking video of the whole thing, so I guess you could say Nokia is supplying both sides with 'spy' technology :) I can't finnd the photo online but it went with this story:

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1905527,00.html

[JayOnThaBeat]

The first 'Smart' phone, obviously.

Nice.

*presses invisible thanks button*

[JayOnThaBeat]

Where's the rimshot (http://instantrimshot.com/) when I need one?!

Tim

That just went in my bookmarks.

[allnameswereout]

Then net neutrality (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_neutrality) is the issue and not goverments using purchased technology to opress opposition.Net neutrality is complex because its an abstract, absolute term, like liberty.

Governments always provide corporations a legal platform to operate on because they gave corporations legal rights to operate on (not only by forbidding; also things such as allowing to be incorporated, money system, patents, copyrights, ...).

If the US government were to ban said behaviour, then the corporation would have to either allow being sued and eat the collateral damage (like Microsoft and SCO do), quit (last resort) or change business method/practice (change ingredients, do damage control, move to an other country, ..). So, for example, if law says all corporations are not allowed to <do X> then they all have to abide law. However, that is national layer, and big multinationals are powerful (e.g. Lex Nokia (http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lex_Nokia)) and something such as guns or even worse destructive weapons are still sold world-wide; even on the black market. Because if there is demand, there is profit to be made by someone.

Therefore, if you want to change that you need to get to mechanisms such as law and morality (the morality of the general public supports the essence of law although there is latency between the feedback of these 2).

That's basically what encryption is, for example -- a defense against privacy invasion with other technology.In historical reference not necessarily merely technology.

You're right that 'if he doesn't do it I do it' is a fallacy though, but like I said, corporations have no ethics or they are secondary to their #1 goal (profit; which is sometimes even less important than survival or keeping shareholders happy). So for corporations this reasoning makes sense, and this very reasoning is also applied in war and self-defense. Ofcourse they could pretend they have ethics and that these are important, but that is (at least partly) also PR.

[allnameswereout]

Yeah, N96 can be used to make photos too, and upload these quickly. Neither James Watt or Nokia has influence on how the tool can be used. Because a car, electricity, a knife, a telephone, TCP/IP, BitTorrent are all simply tools. Uhm, well, Apple has their remote kill switch though. :rolleyes:

In some situations the data, if 'removed', can be recovered sometimes. Flash even works different than harddrives in this regard. But I'd suspect some authorities would simply confiscate the device without giving it back to you. And, if given back, you don't know the status of the hard- and/or software so depending on your interests that might be an issue.

Well, if the "spy technology" that everyone is talking about is a standard-issue wireless phone switch that includes the ability to "wiretap" a phone, then what the heck is all the fuss about? Seriously? Wiretapping is "spy tech" and somehow unexpected and evil?

If it is about deep packet inspection, then yes, that's spy tech (but still should not be unexpected). Wiretapping capability is not spy tech, that's standard issue.*sniff* NSA *sniff*

The 'West' will be getting this too, sooner or later. The government here is well aware of it, and in a report it was taken into consideration as means to fight copyright infringement.

[Texrat]

The 'West' will be getting this too, sooner or later. The government here is well aware of it, and in a report it was taken into consideration as means to fight copyright infringement.

One one hand I wholly support copyright protection, but not some of the means utilized.

But I see this as inevitable. The next major technological advance will put device manufacturing machines next to our printers on the desk, and strict IP protection will be the means of making money for many, who will sell schematics and product designs for downloading into this miracle machines. The only other way to make money will be in the selling of raw materials.

oops, got way offtopic, sorry!

[benny1967]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jul/14/nokia-boycott-iran-election-protests

Wholesale vendors in the capital report that demand for Nokia handsets has fallen by as much as half in the wake of calls to boycott Nokia Siemens Networks (NSN) for selling communications monitoring systems to Iran.

[qole]

This is just a case of poor little Nokia getting involved with a bad influence (http://www.cracked.com/article_15767_p3.html).