First N900 Review

[volt]

I would think the HTC Touch Pro2 would be a more interesting comparison.

Yes, but as it is, it seems this device will start a good deal cheaper than the Touch Pro2.

I've gotta say, I think the Pro2 looks more expensive, too. I think the N810 looks higher quality than the N900. Design wise.

[sachin007]

The one problem is see due to the lack of hardware buttons is this..

Suppose you are using the full screen view of the web browser and you want to go to other open windows or applications.... In the n810 u can just click the multi-task button and select the window/app you want.

But for the n900 you need to go out of the full screen mode of the web browser by pressing the transparent button on the screen.. aka web digi@web, which takes you to the windowed web browser screen... then you click on the multi-task button on the top left corner.. and then again press the window/app you want to use...

If that is true.... that is definitely a regression.

In my opinion they should have all three hardware keys on the side of the device...They did not give us the 4.13 screen... they could have atleast given us those buttons.

[nilchak]

[QUOTE=sevla;313616]If anything it presents a learning curve for using the phone.
QUOTE]

Another point I thing conventional minds will complain about - "OMG, where is the Cancel button, I can only save, I can't cancel? That's a HUGE learning curve ... blah blah "

Yes it a another learning curve for those unwilling to learn new techniques which work better for the mobile paradigm.

This is one of my main points - that a mobile device should have a mobile interface suited to the use. Thanks to Nokia for putting in the thoughts in making Maemo 5 more mobile friendly - who needs a cancel button when you can click outside a modal window to cancel the form...

[nilchak]

The shape next to the button.
It's not a button, could it be an IR port ?

http://www.mobile-review.com/review/image/nokia/rx51-n900/pic21.jpg

I agree with you, IR ports are mostly too weak to use the device as a remote, I was just dreaming :p

What if this is a task-bar button - to bring up the multi-task taskbar by a hardware key ?

That could solve the full-screen to non-full sreen to press taskbar button steps.

[sachin007]

What if this is a task-bar button - to bring up the multi-task taskbar by a hardware key ?

That could solve the full-screen to non-full sreen to press taskbar button steps.

May be it is a screen lock button something like the iphone uses on the top?

[attila77]

How about backplate release button ?

[sjgadsby]

What if this is a task-bar button - to bring up the multi-task taskbar by a hardware key ?

So close to the camera button?

Wild speculation: If the camera button acts as the shutter release, then the square next to it could sense when a finger is in place to take a photo. It would be the equivalent of a half-press of the shutter release on traditional cameras, engaging autofocus, etc.

[sachin007]

How about backplate release button ?

The back plate release is on the side above the 3.5 mm plug.

[sevla]

Well. its just that you refuse to look at solving real problems by looking out of the box. Thats what Nokia did - they bettered the keyboard ergonomins by placing the space there for a reason - its under your thumb and you the space bar is always thumbed.

I am glad that some companies try to innovate and better a common design by looking at the use case scenario. For any handheld device in landscape mode this keyboard with space bar is better than the older conventional style.

Saying it's "better" is your opinion. Also most people on this forum do not constitute the "laymen" user. Judging from reactions to pictures and other comments I've seen the AVERAGE user will automatically have an aversion to the keyboard. You said it solved a "problem" but I don't recall anyone complaining about the position of the spacebar on 4 row devices.

Lastly, placing the space bar to the right forces the use of the right thumb. I'm right handed so it doesn't pose a problem for me but how does it affect left handed people? Should they be forced to press the space button with the right thumb (when they'd rather use there left) simply because Nokia thinks it's "better"? It's the most frequently pressed key while typing and having it in the middle gives the user an option of using left or right fingers (or thumb in this case). Space bars are in the middle for a reason.

But I digress. If you guys like it, great.

[benny1967]

...work better for the mobile paradigm.

... oh. That's what it's for. Probably I just don't have one of those.

[daperl]

Wild speculation: If the camera button acts as the shutter release, then the square next to it could sense when a finger is in place to take a photo. It would be the equivalent of a half-press of the shutter release on traditional cameras, engaging autofocus, etc.

And it could be an IR transceiver. Booyaw!

[pataphysician]

So close to the camera button?

Wild speculation: If the camera button acts as the shutter release, then the square next to it could sense when a finger is in place to take a photo. It would be the equivalent of a half-press of the shutter release on traditional cameras, engaging autofocus, etc.

That's not wild enough speculation. I'm going for a cover for the 10ft extensible periscope camera, This is pretty strong requirement for new phones, with everyone in high school needing to do those up skirt shots ;)

[ysss]

Could it be the fabled Smell-O-Vision sensor instead?
Oh please, please make it so..

[Texrat]

Kind of have to agree with them regarding the space bar key. It's really a bonehead move by Nokia and that's coming from someone who loves Nokia phones. There is no advantage (in typing speed) by moving the space bar to that location. If anything it presents a learning curve for using the phone.

I doubt anyone types faster because the keyboard was shoved all the way to the right. It's a feature that doesn't add any benefit to the phone so it really isn't a "feature" at all. Plus people are going to take one look at that keyboard and say they don't like it. That's just the nature of consumers.

I strongly disagree. I think this will help my accuracy hence speed. But the proof is in the use, so I won't purport to speak for others.

Saying it's "better" is your opinion

..and saying it's automatically worse is yours. Hey, let's battle on the internet over opinions we can't test yet! :rolleyes:

[Laughing Man]

Refresh my memory please... Why are you here? I mean on a Maemo enthusiasts board... You spend a lot of time here. We see your remarks in just about every active thread. Whats the point of your involvement?

Just wondering... :)

The point of the involvement is to try to make Maemo better so more people use it. More people using it means more software companies paying attention to it. So we might actually get updated software like Skype (hopefully with video).

I think Maemo is a great platform, but it's not usable by anyone who either isn't a tech geek or doesn't want to learn the ins and outs of the device. The device itself, coupled with the community and the software and hacks they've provided is powerful. But unless you can get that to the common user they're going overlook the device for something more accessible. E.g. iPhone, Pre, even Android with its rough edges.

[ragnar]

Yes, it wouldn't make any sense with a 4 row keyboard. But with a 3 row keyboard the alternative would be much worse: putting the space to the center would break the qwerty layouting, pushing letters to strange positions, and that would be much worse.

A three row keyboard layout with space bar on the right hand side is for instance in the Nokia N97, or it was (basically) also on the N800 full screen keyboard. Those layouts have been certainly usability tested, and it isn't causing any major problems to users in tests. I'm personally a lefty, and I don't have problems with the N97 layout and space bar position.

[Texrat]

I will vouch for ragnar's expertise. He's a stubborn, argumentive guy but he knows his stuff. :p

[qole]

Good show Nokia! Now, when can I get one, and can you convince Ted Rogers to lower his data costs!!?

I don't think it will be Nokia who will do that. It will be someone else (http://www.windmobile.ca/WIND-news/detail/what-i-can-tell-you-about-our-service/) giving us Canadians "global levels of pricing".

EDIT: Good to hear from another lefty that the weird spacebar won't be a problem. I was worried.

[BruceL]

So close to the camera button?

Wild speculation: If the camera button acts as the shutter release, then the square next to it could sense when a finger is in place to take a photo. It would be the equivalent of a half-press of the shutter release on traditional cameras, engaging autofocus, etc.

That was my first thought too. If so, that is great! Just point and shoot. No need to load the camera app.

Also, as for the idea that it is a 'full screen' toggle. There is no SIDE-BAR-BASED-TASK-SWITCHER. So, there is no non-full screen view. That means no need for a full-screen toggle button.
:)

Bruce

[attila77]

That was my first thought too. If so, that is great! Just point and shoot. No need to load the camera app.


I kind of expect the camera app to start/close anyway when the camera slider is moved, just like on any other cover+camera equipped device...

[Picklesworth]

I sure hope that LED indicator is visible from the side. It's one of my favourite features about the N810; being able to glance into my pocket and know instantly whether I have messages.


i hate this screenshot :-(
http://mobile-review.com/review/image/nokia/rx51-n900/scr/scr14.jpg


edit: forgot happy OS cloning ;-)

Wow, I didn't catch that. What the heck?! It has 32GB guaranteed space and you still can't fit more than six major apps at a time?

In fairness, though, it's probably because they need to be compatible with inferior OS's like Windows, which can't be bothered to support, uh, any file systems other than ntfs and fat. (The tablet uses ext for system stuff, since it's a decent file system). Hopefully it's all on the same card, though, so people who use Linux will be able to resize that partition...

I'm still on the fence about this gadget. I want to see if they have an N910 in the works with phone stuff stripped out; I'm one of those anti-phone people (we have a lot of them here), and I find an intermittent Internet connection actually serves me really well (where I live). Also, the extra thickness here defeats the classic PDA thing again. I want this with a nearly edge-to-edge screen, thin enough to fit in a shirt pocket.
That is unless someone conjures up a really good pay-as-you-go type of data plan for the tablets.

[Agent 770]

The shape next to the button.
It's not a button, could it be an IR port ?

http://www.mobile-review.com/review/image/nokia/rx51-n900/pic21.jpg


External GPS connector?:confused:. It's so flush that it's probably not a button.

[Nathan]

I've been thinking some more...

I think qgil has been trying to say that there might already be something going on here... He's said on a few occasions that developers who put their apps in the wiki or who show interest in getting Telepathy working in Fremantle won't regret it, and that it would be worth their while...

So developers, get your asses in gear!

I would if I had a device of any type -- I broke my N810 and so I haven't had a platform to do any testing. ;-( I figured I would wait until the n900 came out and pick it up.

Nathan.

[qgil]

The SDK should be enough to have your apps in extras-devel. There you might get testers that will help you bringing it to extras-testing. If you want to discuss please continue in a more specific thread.

PS: don't worry about space for 3rd party apps.

[mikkov]

PS: don't worry about space for 3rd party apps.

OK, I have many 100MB games, should I worry about the space?

[sevla]

I strongly disagree. I think this will help my accuracy hence speed. But the proof is in the use, so I won't purport to speak for others.



..and saying it's automatically worse is yours. Hey, let's battle on the internet over opinions we can't test yet! :rolleyes:

No where in my (2nd) post did I use words like "automatically" or "worse". I stated facts like "People using left hand are forced to use right humb". And I made "observations" of peoples reaction to the keyboard. None of which is my "opinion". But ok.

[Radu]

To be honest, I am a little bit dissapointed, to the point that I will probably not buy it.
There are a few issues with it:
1. 3.5" screen. This is really small for 800x480. Even the 810 screen is kind of too small for it, and after a while it will hurt your eyes.

2. Smaller battery (1350 mAh vs 1500 mAh). Not sure if the new CPU and RAM is more power hungry, but I would expect a shorter uptime.

3. The fact that it has a phone in it. This increases the price and size, and not everyone needs a phone in it. I like to have a featureless, small, cheap phone, which i use, for, well, phone purposes. If I drop it, I won't cry for it. If someone calls me while I am doing stuff on my internet tablet, the current application won't lose focus. If I play a game or watch a movie and the battery is drained, I can still talk on the phone. If I go on the beach, I don't have to take my expensive internet tablet with me and have it stollen or get sand in it.

So if they come up with a phoneless model, great, I'd buy it, but until then I'll just use my N810.

[qole]

OK, I have many 100MB games, should I worry about the space?

All those Quake 3 mods you love playing.

[zehjotkah]

I sure hope that LED indicator is visible from the side. It's one of my favourite features about the N810; being able to glance into my pocket and know instantly whether I have messages.




Wow, I didn't catch that. What the heck?! It has 32GB guaranteed space and you still can't fit more than six major apps at a time?

In fairness, though, it's probably because they need to be compatible with inferior OS's like Windows, which can't be bothered to support, uh, any file systems other than ntfs and fat. (The tablet uses ext for system stuff, since it's a decent file system). Hopefully it's all on the same card, though, so people who use Linux will be able to resize that partition...

I'm still on the fence about this gadget. I want to see if they have an N910 in the works with phone stuff stripped out; I'm one of those anti-phone people (we have a lot of them here), and I find an intermittent Internet connection actually serves me really well (where I live). Also, the extra thickness here defeats the classic PDA thing again. I want this with a nearly edge-to-edge screen, thin enough to fit in a shirt pocket.
That is unless someone conjures up a really good pay-as-you-go type of data plan for the tablets.

the LED indicator is on the front..

you can install applications in the 32GB

it was discussed before in this thread..

[Architengi]

If I go on the beach, I don't have to take my expensive internet tablet with me and have it stollen or get sand in it.

That is because you might live somewhere in one of those Eastern European countries... :cool:
Instead of being afraid of your belongings left on the beach might get stolen :eek:, guys, get yourself some civilization, some good justice system...

There is nothing wrong with N900 device being a phone, if they stole your cheap phone on the beach with all your contacts, isn't that also bad? What I'm saying: here people would not stole the phone on the beach, if this happens in your country, don't try to strip this phone of some features... just fix your country!

[Radu]

Actually, I live in the US. Not sure where you live, but it must be a really cool place if theft is not an issue there.

[nwerneck]

That is because you might live somewhere in one of those Eastern European countries... :cool:
Instead of being afraid of your belongings left on the beach might get stolen :eek:, guys, get yourself some civilization, some good justice system...

There is nothing wrong with N900 device being a phone, if they stole your cheap phone on the beach with all your contacts, isn't that also bad? What I'm saying: here people would not stole the phone on the beach, if this happens in your country, don't try to strip this phone of some features... just fix your country!

That was not a very brilliant comment. Maybe we could just move to your friendly neighbourhood? Or maybe we can fix our countries shipping our robbers to yours?

I am for the “separate phone” design too. And the security issue is one of the reasons.

I have hope Nokia will release again another non-phone tablet some time in the future, maybe 2011... Until then I'll stick to the N800. Not only it's more fit to my wishes, but older devices are less prone to be stolen! ;)

[Cruelkix]

Also, as for the idea that it is a 'full screen' toggle. There is no SIDE-BAR-BASED-TASK-SWITCHER. So, there is no non-full screen view. That means no need for a full-screen toggle button.
:)

Bruce

I shouldn't have said full screen toggle. How about task manager toggle! That's what I should have said.

[Texrat]

No where in my (2nd) post did I use words like "automatically" or "worse". I stated facts like "People using left hand are forced to use right humb". And I made "observations" of peoples reaction to the keyboard. None of which is my "opinion". But ok.

I feel secure in saying my words with which you take issue were a fair interpretation of your posts on the subject. You did take an extreme contrary stance, and yes, what I took issue with was your opinion. Besides, those observations are still largely speculative at this point [here Qgil takes me to task for giving someone else grief over speculation :p]

Anyway, looks like you were up to the internet opinion war challenge! Semantics at 20 paces! Fire!

[danramos]

Anyway, looks like you were up to the internet opinion war challenge! Semantics at 20 paces! Fire!

Are you sure that's not just an opinion? ;)

[ARJWright]

Eh, folks having international issues, please take it somewhere else other than this thread please.
---

Folks having issues with a Maemo 5 device sporting cellular connectivity *options,* get over it; this was known for a long time and nothing about a pre-production device's review will change what has already been debated here ad nauseum.

---
Folks not loving the keyboard, but have never had more than 2sec using the N97, you will be surprised. Allow youself the blessing of not having expectations that are off, and just wait until you get the device to center things appropriately for you.

---
All this fuss about a device that's not even official yet. I wonder if folks will feel the same after they are told by Nokia that this is the face of what Nokia wants to do with computing (open source, community involvement, technology paradigm shifting, service oriented features and devices, and occasional rewards).

Then again, it might erupt into... well, this.

[Texrat]

Are you sure that's not just an opinion? ;)

no, I'm not. :p

[Texrat]

Thanks for the sobriety injection ARJ!

[anderbr]

I am for the “separate phone” design too.

Me too. I hope we have the option at some point for a no phone version. Like blackberry and no-cam versions.

I should wait until a formal announcement to complain, but I find myself much less excited about the n900 than I wanted to be, and was from 770->800->810.

Gone are:
Big-ish screen
$400-ish price
freedom from carrier/contract ( yeah, unlocked blah-blah )
computer friendly keyboard in favor of phone friendly one
dpad, etc.
Not to mention new generic slider-phone styling.


It's becoming more of a paris-hilton chick phone than mobile computer/internet tablet. Which is OK I guess since Nokia sells phones, but not the direction I hoped for or that got me excited about maemo to begin with.

I do like to new horsepower.
Here's to hoping for more variants soon.. maybe nokia can beat apple back to the 4.5 - 5'' tablet.

[zerojay]

It's becoming more of a paris-hilton chick phone than mobile computer/internet tablet.

Yes, I can hear Paris talking about being excited for Harmattan now. :)

EDIT: With as popular as the RX-51 seems to be getting, I'm not even sure if I'm being sarcastic anymore.

[sevla]

I feel secure in saying my words with which you take issue were a fair interpretation of your posts on the subject. You did take an extreme contrary stance, and yes, what I took issue with was your opinion. Besides, those observations are still largely speculative at this point [here Qgil takes me to task for giving someone else grief over speculation :p]

Anyway, looks like you were up to the internet opinion war challenge! Semantics at 20 paces! Fire!

I digress. Agree to disagree :).

Is this the part where we go to the White House for a beer? LOL

[dansus]

I visited the Nokia store today with a view to buying the N810, its been about 12 months since my first one broke and its a fantastic looking device. I had forgotten just how good it looks, the ergonomics just work and it feels great in the hand.

The thing that hit me was how small it feels for a 4.1" device and i just couldnt get my head round how it would be usable if the screen was any smaller. Now im struggling to see how the 3.5" on the N900 is going work to work as a web tablet, but hoped to be proved wrong.

Of course the cpu on the N810 is mediocre at best and all the reasons i didnt replace my device back then came flooding back. I then showed the store staff Eldars preview and everyone, men and women were crowded round the laptop with approving noises abound.
.

[ARJWright]

I visited the Nokia store today with a view to buying the N810, its been about 12 months since my first one broke and its a fantastic looking device.

I had forgotten just how good it looks, the ergonomics just work and it feels great in the hand. The thing that hit me was how small it feels for a 4.1" device and i just couldnt get my head round how it would be usable if the screen was any smaller.

Now im struggling to see how the 3.5" on the N900 is going work to work as a web tablet, but hoped to be proved wrong.

Of course the cpu on the N810 is mediocre at best and all the reasons i didnt replace my device back then came flooding back. I then showed the store staff Eldars preview and everyone, men and women were crowded round the laptop with approving noises abound.

Did you happen to put your hands on the N97 while you were there?
Compare it size, keyboard, and usable screen real estate to the N810?

Please say you did, that will level out a ton of the noise in this specific thread.

[danramos]

Folks having issues with a Maemo 5 device sporting cellular connectivity *options,* get over it; this was known for a long time and nothing about a pre-production device's review will change what has already been debated here ad nauseum.

It's become OPTIONAL now? No price to pay for the cellular portion? :) I take issue with the way you posed that whole dismissive.

[ARJWright]

It's become OPTIONAL now? No price to pay for the cellular portion? :) I take issue with the way you posed that whole dismissive.

There's a smirk in my mouth somewhere...

You don't want to use the cellular access, don't use it; you don't get the option of not having it in *this* device.

If you can make a convincing enough case for Nokia that there are enough people near-enough to the target audiences of this Maemo 5 device that a non-SIM version would be helpful, I'm pretty sure that they would not only listen, but due to some really interesting positioning as a flexible company on the supply chain, logistics, and regional side of things, be able to move.

I'd say though, look for a timeline similar to the N95 and N95 8GB though if you are pitching that.

Otherwise, find my smirk in there somewhere :rolleyes:

[zerojay]

I digress. Agree to disagree :).

Is this the part where we go to the White House for a beer? LOL

Isn't that why it's called "Maemo Summit"? ;)

[sachin007]

Me too. I hope we have the option at some point for a no phone version. Like blackberry and no-cam versions.

I should wait until a formal announcement to complain, but I find myself much less excited about the n900 than I wanted to be, and was from 770->800->810.

Gone are:
Big-ish screen
$400-ish price
freedom from carrier/contract ( yeah, unlocked blah-blah )
computer friendly keyboard in favor of phone friendly one
dpad, etc.
Not to mention new generic slider-phone styling.


It's becoming more of a paris-hilton chick phone than mobile computer/internet tablet. Which is OK I guess since Nokia sells phones, but not the direction I hoped for or that got me excited about maemo to begin with.

I do like to new horsepower.
Here's to hoping for more variants soon.. maybe nokia can beat apple back to the 4.5 - 5'' tablet.

For all of you who want a 5" phoneless tablet..... there is no point asking nokia for it. Its better we go ask apple to release it first to the market and after 3 years of being a big hit, nokia will say me too!

I am really frustrated with nokia's lack of advertising. The same thing happened to touch screens when nokia came out with the 7710. It was a wonderful widescreen touch screen and there was nil advertising. Now ask anyone who came out with touch screens first?... the answer will be iphone for most of the users. If the same thing happens to tablets... no one can help nokia!

[sachin007]

There's a smirk in my mouth somewhere...

You don't want to use the cellular access, don't use it; you don't get the option of not having it in *this* device.

If you can make a convincing enough case for Nokia that there are enough people near-enough to the target audiences of this Maemo 5 device that a non-SIM version would be helpful, I'm pretty sure that they would not only listen, but due to some really interesting positioning as a flexible company on the supply chain, logistics, and regional side of things, be able to move.

I'd say though, look for a timeline similar to the N95 and N95 8GB though if you are pitching that.

Otherwise, find my smirk in there somewhere :rolleyes:

How else could you explain the popularity of the ipod touch?

[dansus]

Did you happen to put your hands on the N97 while you were there?
Compare it size, keyboard, and usable screen real estate to the N810?

Please say you did, that will level out a ton of the noise in this specific thread.

I did. Infact i played with just about every device in the store and i have to say my favourite keyboard of the lot was the E63, i liked it so much, i bought one. £170, bargain and i own a E71. lol

This is the first chance ive had to really play with the N97, omg, what a horrendous device, what was Nokia thinking when they made this this thing. I was just left laughing in the store at the stupidness of the screen angle required and get full access to the keys.The screen is tiny, the keys are tiny and useless, makes me feel sad for Nokia, such a disappointment.

The N810 keyboard as a whole was miles better to use but the keys felt a little flat and lacking in definition, requiring a very positive press to activate, but then this was a demo model which had been hammered.

I left feeling if the keys were of similar size to the N810 and defined like the E71/63 then it would be a fantastic keyboard, which indecently, is exactly what the N900 keys looks like.
.

[Texrat]

I still think the RX-51 screen size is too small for a tablet... but I like it for a phone.

[anderbr]

Yes, I can hear Paris talking about being excited for Harmattan now. :)

EDIT: With as popular as the RX-51 seems to be getting, I'm not even sure if I'm being sarcastic anymore.

Ok, so that was a bit over the top, but all I'm saying is that this brave new multi-step, multi-year paradigm shifting experiment has gotten us .. another commodity slider/cam phone.

And a kick-A mobile OS, but will it/can it shine in this hardware?

And I'm still miffed about the prospect of having to pay ~$300 extra for a phone I don't need or want to play with fremantle. Unless I get a carrier contract I don't need or want.

N900p - with cell radio
N900t - no radio. How hard is that?

[danramos]

There's a smirk in my mouth somewhere...

You don't want to use the cellular access, don't use it; you don't get the option of not having it in *this* device.

There's a smirk IN your mouth as cellular is OPTIONAL on this new device. :) Need to clear up the semantics to make a proper and convincing argument. Not using it still means I have to pay for it. Pointing me toward the iPod Touch isn't really helping Nokia's bottom line either. I'm just disappointed that they've had an Internet Tablet lineage without the need for expensive and unnecessary wireless technology.. just to spoil it with something I don't want to have to pay for. More importantly, and I will say it again, it could as easily have been a little module--just open the rear panel and plug it in. Simple. Affordable. Future upgrade. And a blissfully simple way to design ONE device to suit both crowds.

You don't want to use the cellular access, don't use it; you don't get the option of not having it in *this* device.

So why are you arguing so much about this being optional? Clearly, it's not optional.

If you can make a convincing enough case for Nokia that there are enough people near-enough to the target audiences of this Maemo 5 device that a non-SIM version would be helpful, I'm pretty sure that they would not only listen, but due to some really interesting positioning as a flexible company on the supply chain, logistics, and regional side of things, be able to move.

As pointed out elsewhere, if you had the million dollar answer.. do you think Nokia would listen? I'm not sure they care to listen to customers and engineers about what would suit the largest number of customers while also maintaining cheaper costs (MODULAR RADIO!).

[dansus]

N900p - with cell radio
N900t - no radio. How hard is that?

How about;

RX-51 3.5" with modem
RX-71 5.0" without modem

lol, keep dreaming. :p

[danramos]

How about;

RX-51 3.5" with modem
RX-71 5.0" without modem

lol, keep dreaming. :p

I'm not sure that you made yourself clear.

[sachin007]

How about;

RX-51 3.5" with modem
RX-71 5.0" without modem

lol, keep dreaming. :p

And the Rx-56 5" without keyboard!

[dansus]

And the Rx-56 5" without keyboard!

What do i get for the RX-69 ?? :D

This is madness, according to an ex-Nokia employee's twitter, there's going to be all sorts of good things announced in September....

[benny1967]

RX-51 3.5" with modem
RX-71 5.0" without modem

Actually this was my last hope. (Only I could live with the larger variant to have the full phone functionality, too. It's not all that bad to be able to put the SIM card in if you want to.)

The N8x0-screen was close to perfect, just a little bit too small. 5" might be it.

OTOH: The whole Fremantle UI is designed around the idea of small screens and restricted use cases. It's made for a phone with twitter and text messaging, not for a portable computer with Abiword, Xchat and Gnumeric. So what use would it be to have a perfect 5", full keyboard, d-pad included,...-hardware running Maemo5?

Imagine those large "menus" on a 5" display. Wouldn't that look strange? And wouldn't you want to use this 5"-device for things that require more complex user interfaces?

[EIPI]

@danramos .... have you seen the thread on co-creation (http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=30693)? Nokia is willing to listen to us. Perhaps you can constructively provide your input, and perhaps we'll all be the richer for it!

[danramos]

@danramos .... have you seen the thread on co-creation (http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=30693)? Nokia is willing to listen to us. Perhaps you can constructively provide your input, and perhaps we'll all be the richer for it!

I did not see this before! Thanks for pointing it out to me!

[sachin007]

Considering that the RX-51 is the LEAD device for meamo 5, it is safe to assume that there will be many other devices in the future ..... but when and in what varieties is the million dollar question. I wish they do it early, specially since hardware is never a problem with nokia.

[attila77]

What do i get for the RX-69 ?? :D

This is madness, according to an ex-Nokia employee's twitter, there's going to be all sorts of good things announced in September....

Why madness ? Now that the cat is out of the bag (Maemo doing cellular voice) it would be actually helpful to uncover at least a ROUGH road map for the family (so those that think the N900 is not their cup of tea would not jump ship). It would be kind of silly to loose people to, say, the Archos 5" Android tablet (or the likely next-gen iPod Touch) that comes two weeks after the N900 when you have something similar in the pipeline.

[dansus]

Why madness ? ........

Madness, because the anticipation is killing me and my poor little ticker cant take much more.

[pataphysician]

Why madness ? Now that the cat is out of the bag (Maemo doing cellular voice) it would be actually helpful to uncover at least a ROUGH road map for the family (so those that think the N900 is not their cup of tea would not jump ship). It would be kind of silly to loose people to, say, the Archos 5" Android tablet (or the likely next-gen iPod Touch) that comes two weeks after the N900 when you have something similar in the pipeline.

Well Nokia World is like 17 days away, which is where they will probably make the announcements of their plans. I'm pretty sure they won't lose their whole market share by waiting 17 or so days. ;)

[sachin007]

Well Nokia World is like 17 days away, which is where they will probably make the announcements of their plans. I'm pretty sure they won't lose their whole market share by waiting 17 or so days. ;)

17 days? Whats the date in your part of the world? :D

It is on september 2nd which is 13 days from now ....

[pataphysician]

17 days? Whats the date in your part of the world? :D

It is on september 2nd which is 13 days from now ....

sorry for some reason the 6th stuck in my mind, which is when my inlaws are coming in to town, probably just trying to substitute that with happier thoughts.

[sachin007]

What are those 4 bars on the right lower corner ...

[danramos]

What are those 4 bars on the right lower corner ...

One bar for each Commodore SID channel playing chip music during menus? :)

[daperl]

What are those 4 bars on the right lower corner ...

audio spectrum visualizer?

[Clockwork]

audio spectrum visualizer?
Too small. That sort of thing is eye candy, and they would make it bigger.

[jethro.itt]

One bar for each Commodore SID channel playing chip music during menus? :)

MOS Technology SID (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOS_Technology_SID) (MOS 6581/8580) has three channels. (Yes, totally off topic.)

[zerojay]

One bar for each Commodore SID channel playing chip music during menus? :)

You just gave me an idea.

[pataphysician]

What are those 4 bars on the right lower corner ...

maybe like the canola player 4 square button?

[daperl]

Too small. That sort of thing is eye candy, and they would make it bigger.

Have you ever used Amorak? Many players have different size visualizer modes.

[quipper8]

I see from the screen shots that this maemo 5 apparently has a new calendar/tasks/notes PIM app. Does anyone have any more details on the origins or development of this app? I love my n810, but had a hard time using it for work day to day because of lack of serious PIM, so I am using an e71 mostly, but use n810 for couch surfing the web in the evening still. Thanks in advance.

[Texrat]

This is madness, according to an ex-Nokia employee's twitter, there's going to be all sorts of good things announced in September....

Not me! :eek: I swear!

[bummer]

No, I was just wondering. :)

Well it was a pretty shitty comment and a smiley doesn't 'save' you.

[nilchak]

On the Maemo Map screenshot I see a weather Icon too alongside the POI and Routing icons.
Never seen a weather info integrated into any GPS application.

Does this mean this will fetch weather information for where we are on dictated by the GPS coordinates ? That's purty cool ! :)

[Texrat]

Well it was a pretty shitty comment and a smiley doesn't 'save' you.

Welcome to the forum! :D

[vkv.raju]

From twitter:
@eldarmurtazin So many questions about RX51, on monday will publish Q&A about device, strategy etc. Decide to publish mini at the same time. Tnx for q :)

Now, the wait is for Monday, the day that comes after the weekend :(:mad::eek:

[ysss]

How else could you explain the popularity of the ipod touch?

That they have ipod (both name and software) in it?
That they have entered mobile gaming platform, viable competition against nintendo dsi and sony psp?

[debernardis]

On the Maemo Map screenshot I see a weather Icon too alongside the POI and Routing icons.
Never seen a weather info integrated into any GPS application.

Does this mean this will fetch weather information for where we are on dictated by the GPS coordinates ? That's purty cool ! :)

Nokia Maps (Ovi Maps?) 3.0 - that is to say the present version for the symbian os - already has weather info for your destination . It is a great application, believe me. I use it often and maps are updated, and it works quite easily.

[Architengi]

Nokia Maps (Ovi Maps?) 3.0 - that is to say the present version for the symbian os - already has weather info for your destination . It is a great application, believe me. I use it often and maps are updated, and it works quite easily.


About Ovi Maps, the web app: http://maps.ovi.com
it is kind of slow... what do you think?
Also, the web app does not work on any other OS and browser combination then Windows/IE... how about Maemo/MicroB?

[lma]

Does this mean this will fetch weather information for where we are on dictated by the GPS coordinates ? That's purty cool ! :)

Both Foreca & OMWeather do that on Diablo.

[lma]

About Ovi Maps, the web app: http://maps.ovi.com
it is kind of slow... what do you think?

For "Ovi Maps is not yet available on UNIX" values of "slow" :-|

[daveb70]

What are those 4 bars on the right lower corner ...

Not sure, but if you can see it, the area surrounding that bit is stamped over the top of the UI in a sense, making that element larger than it initailly appears, fwiw. Granted, it's still pre-release and may have nothing to do with anything/may be cleaned up in final. Or could there have been more to show (perhaps some text labels) and it was 'shopped and edited before he published his blog?

For being more fingertouch-centric, if it is an eq or vu meter or similar, it would seem it is either a minimized app/gadget that when touched will bring up the full app or it's simply meant to overlay and be viewed as is. (captain obvious award?)

[fms]

That they have entered mobile gaming platform, viable competition against nintendo dsi and sony psp?
No they haven't, not until they provide a usable dpad. :)

[ysss]

No they haven't, not until they provide a usable dpad. :)

Well I don't know about little technical details like that ;)

But here's a quote from nintendo:

"Nintendo Co Ltd. reported a 66 percent fall in quarterly operating profit on slowing demand for its Wii videogame console and a stronger yen, and stuck to its full-year forecast for a decline of 12 percent," Nathan Layne reports for Reuters.

"Nintendo has weathered the economic downturn relatively well thanks to the popularity of the Wii and its DS handheld player, which have catapulted it to the top of the global game market ahead of Sony Corp. and Microsoft Corp.," Layne reports. "But Nintendo expects its profit to fall for the first time in four years in the current year to March 2010 as the Wii's momentum slows and the company faces increased competition in the handheld business from Apple Inc's iPhone."

[debernardis]

About Ovi Maps, the web app: http://maps.ovi.com
it is kind of slow... what do you think?
Also, the web app does not work on any other OS and browser combination then Windows/IE... how about Maemo/MicroB?

I can't even open it on firefox/linux. But the one running on symbian works a treat. I hope that the maemo version will do like that.

[Architengi]

I can't even open it on firefox/linux. But the one running on symbian works a treat. I hope that the maemo version will do like that.

ovi maps on web does not work in firefox / windows or chrome. Yes the one in Symbian is nice, and it is native, so very fast. Finally seems that Nokia has scored again. Maybe N900 will be another score.

What about ovi store for Maemo? When will it be available?

[fms]

But here's a quote from nintendo:
Well, if they say so, but I kinda remember Nintendo products being children's toys. $400 iPhone with its 2-year ATT does not seem to fit that demographic very well...

[ysss]

Well, if they say so, but I kinda remember Nintendo products being children's toys. $400 iPhone with its 2-year ATT does not seem to fit that demographic very well...

The more markets a device\platform can wedge into, the better.

[zehjotkah]

kids, please stop speculating if there will be devices with bigger screen, without GSM and so on...
JUST WAIT THAT FU&§$*# 2ND SEPTEMBER!!!!!!!

;-)

[anidel]

Not me! :eek: I swear!

ahahahahaha :)
I keep smiling ... my colleagues wonder why :)

fun..

[munky261]

Has there been any word yet on if this will be availible at tmobile stores, or am I going to have to road trip to chicago again like I did for my N810?

[zerojay]

Has there been any word yet on if this will be availible at tmobile stores, or am I going to have to road trip to chicago again like I did for my N810?

Honestly, that sounds like my kind of road trip.

[Gorgon]

ovi maps on web does not work in firefox / windows or chrome. Yes the one in Symbian is nice, and it is native, so very fast. Finally seems that Nokia has scored again. Maybe N900 will be another score.

What about ovi store for Maemo? When will it be available?

Ovi Maps on the web DOES work on Windows/Firefox but only in FireFox 3.0. In order to work correctly Nokia in their infinite wisdom created a plugin that only works on Mac and Windows and while Mozilla was busy updating to Firefox 3.5, which wasn't a secret, Nokia ignored this development and failed to update their plugin to work with 3.5. Get on the ball Nokia!!

I've had to downgrade all my Firefox installs to v3.0.13 to get Ovi Maps to work on my PC again.

[Gorgon]

Nokia Maps (Ovi Maps?) 3.0 - that is to say the present version for the symbian os - already has weather info for your destination . It is a great application, believe me. I use it often and maps are updated, and it works quite easily.

How are you getting weather in Ovi Maps on your mobile device? I see no option for that on my E71. Or are you running an S60v5 device?

[Bundyo]

What are those 4 bars on the right lower corner ...

Looks like a Canola-style options button, probably for an equalizer.

[Bundyo]

Ovi Maps on the web DOES work on Windows/Firefox but only in FireFox 3.0. In order to work correctly Nokia in their infinite wisdom created a plugin that only works on Mac and Windows and while Mozilla was busy updating to Firefox 3.5, which wasn't a secret, Nokia ignored this development and failed to update their plugin to work with 3.5. Get on the ball Nokia!!

I've had to downgrade all my Firefox installs to v3.0.13 to get Ovi Maps to work on my PC again.

Well, it works perfectly in FF 3.5 in Windows. And the plugin is required for 3D view and landmarks only.

[Gorgon]

Well, it works perfectly in FF 3.5 in Windows. And the plugin is required for 3D view and landmarks only.

Since when? I've been getting compatibility issues since FF 3.5 was released. In there an updated plugin?

EDIT: Installed new program when I went there today so this is a recent fix. There's no excuse for this updated plugin taking as long as it did. FF 3.5 has been released since June 30th and there were a large number of release candidate builds that Nokia could have been working with.

[YoDude]

Well it was a pretty shitty comment and a smiley doesn't 'save' you.

Back off... The comment was prompted by the amount of "not an iPhone" negativity in not just this thread but others. (< that btw, could have been and was misinterpreted. That is why I asked. )

If you have a problem with me, take it somewhere else or ignore it.

If the purpose of this post was to draw attention to your other posts, well... shame on you. :eek:





***

Now back to the regularly scheduled program...

[TenSpeed]

Well I don't know about little technical details like that ;)

But here's a quote from nintendo:

...hang on a minute, that's a quote from Reuters, NOT Nintendo. While Nintendo may be concerned about the iPod/iPhone, this quote only shows that the U.S. media is blind to non-Apple options.

The billion dollar question is, "why does the iPhone keep popping up in casual conversation in the media?"

The Nokia version is, "how can I get me some of that love???"

[debernardis]

How are you getting weather in Ovi Maps on your mobile device? I see no option for that on my E71. Or are you running an S60v5 device?

No, s60v3 here (Nokia E90). Just search an address, or select one of your favourite places, then in the pop-up menu select "show details" (should be like that, I have the Italian locale which says "mostra dettagli").
Provided that you're online, after some seconds you get a weather forecast for the next hours in the end of the screen showing address, lat/long and distance from the place you are.

[MMMotors]

Well I don't know about little technical details like that ;)

But here's a quote from nintendo:

One of the most prominent billboards near the intersection of 101 and 87 in Silicon Valley looks to be selling the iPod Touch as a gaming device. Apparently Apple thinks they're a gaming platform.

But it goes back to Eldar's original lead-in - whatever OS comes next needs to be really scalable, it's going to have to be good in a lot of different devices, some of which haven't appeared yet.

[sjgadsby]

Apparently Apple thinks they're a gaming platform.

Yes, they do (http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/iphone-is-future-of-gameplay-apple-exec):

There are already so many games and as we look at it, to us it really seems this is the future of gameplay. Whereas a lot of these devices [Nintendo DS and Sony PSP] are more in the past.

[zerojay]

Yes, they do (http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/iphone-is-future-of-gameplay-apple-exec):

If iPhone games are the future of gaming, I'm going to stop playing videogames very quickly.

[ysss]

@zerojay: with cortex A8 + powervr SGX on board.. and some add-on like this:

http://smartech.blogetery.com/files/2008/07/iphone-i-control-pad.png

The 3GS is already more powerful than the PSP or DSi, or even both of them combined.

[Gorgon]

No, s60v3 here (Nokia E90). Just search an address, or select one of your favourite places, then in the pop-up menu select "show details" (should be like that, I have the Italian locale which says "mostra dettagli").
Provided that you're online, after some seconds you get a weather forecast for the next hours in the end of the screen showing address, lat/long and distance from the place you are.

Awesome, didn't know this existed. Once loaded under options you can select Full weather details and get 5-day forecast. Pretty cool.

[debernardis]

Awesome, didn't know this existed. Once loaded under options you can select Full weather details and get 5-day forecast. Pretty cool.

Omigosh, I don't have this! Please PM me some detail, i.e. how you get to 5-day forecasts. I don' think we can hijack this thread with symbian stuff.

[zerojay]

@zerojay: with cortex A8 + powervr SGX on board.. and some add-on like this:

http://smartech.blogetery.com/files/2008/07/iphone-i-control-pad.png

The 3GS is already more powerful than the PSP or DSi, or even both of them combined.

Doesn't matter if it's more powerful or not. I don't want all games to be dumbed down little 99 cent experiences - another reason to fight Apple and Nintendo.

[ysss]

Doesn't matter if it's more powerful or not. I don't want all games to be dumbed down little 99 cent experiences - another reason to fight Apple and Nintendo.

Yes, I agree with you on that point. But on a positive note, Monkey Island Special Edition was released for $7.99. That's one genre that I hope to make a come back on these handhelds.

[allnameswereout]

Article got linked to at http://linux.slashdot.org/story/09/08/21/1155217/Nokia-Leaks-Phone-With-Full-GNULinux-Distribution so Nokia/RX-51/Fremantle/Maemo gets more media attention... including from (former) OpenMoko folks... :)

[fpp]

780$ ? That's 540€ before tax over here... eeek !

[fms]

The billion dollar question is, "why does the iPhone keep popping up in casual conversation in the media?"
Because it is a metrosexual fetish symbol and the media folks just can't avoid returning to the subject of their affection again and again.

The Nokia version is, "how can I get me some of that love???"
Are you relly sure you want THAT?

[Mox]

Doesn't matter if it's more powerful or not. I don't want all games to be dumbed down little 99 cent experiences - another reason to fight Apple and Nintendo.

There's also "Secret of the Monkey Island (http://www.joystiq.com/2009/07/23/the-secret-of-monkey-island-se-released-for-iphone/)" for iPhone. I quite like it, even after all these years :)

[YoDude]

...


...But it goes back to Eldar's original lead-in - whatever OS comes next needs to be really scalable, it's going to have to be good in a lot of different devices, some of which haven't appeared yet.

I agree... Most of which haven't appeared yet. Some of which haven't even been conceived yet.
When voice recognition and a standardized means of identification are common, I imagine that many devices will be built into the things we surround ourselves with everyday and not carried about as much as they are now.

***

HAL: You don't mind talking about it, do you, Dave?

Dave: No, not at all.

HAL: Well, certainly no one could have been unaware of the very strange stories floating around before we left. Rumors about something being dug up on the moon. I never gave these stories much credence. But particularly in view of some of the other things that have happened, I find them difficult to put out of my mind. For instance, the way all our preparations were kept under such tight security and the melodramatic touch of putting Drs. Hunter, Kimball, and Kaminsky aboard, already in hibernation after four months of separate training on their own.

Dave: You working up your crew psychology report?

HAL: Of course I am. Sorry about this. I know it's a bit silly.

:p

[arj]

Welcome slashdot :D

[Texrat]

Ok, YoDude, we know who Dave (Neary) is, but who plays the part of the paranoid computer? :p

[volt]

780$ ? That's 540€ before tax over here... eeek !

And what's the HTC Pro2? The only really comparable phone, no?

[GeraldKo]

Way Off-Topic: BTW, seen the movie "Moon (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1182345/)"? I liked it a lot. Brilliantly plays off of one's expectations from 2001. (Directed by David Bowie's son.)

[zerojay]

Ok, YoDude, we know who Dave (Neary) is, but who plays the part of the paranoid computer? :p

frank.wagner :p

[fpp]

And what's the HTC Pro2? The only really comparable phone, no?

No idea, would have to dig around... I'm here because I originally was into buying internet tablets, not phones :-)

[volt]

Of course. I just think you'll find that the Rover is priced competitive for what it is - a high end smartphone with keyboard and high resolution.

It seems that here the Rover will start costing a good fifth less than the the street price of the Pro2.

Chances are there are other Maemo devices announced this year, hopefully one that fits better to your needs/wants.

[danramos]

MOS Technology SID (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOS_Technology_SID) (MOS 6581/8580) has three channels. (Yes, totally off topic.)

Cripes! You're right--I suppose I might have meant the 4-channel POKEY chip music from the Atari 8-bits, then. :)

kids, please stop speculating if there will be devices with bigger screen, without GSM and so on...
JUST WAIT THAT FU&§$*# 2ND SEPTEMBER!!!!!!!

;-)

Here's a suggestion, to help stop all that crazy speculating: if you have them, just release them. Otherwise, well.. the speculating will just happen. You can also read that the other way around: You want to hold off releasing something... let them speculate. :)

[danramos]

No idea, would have to dig around... I'm here because I originally was into buying internet tablets, not phones :-)

I keep telling people that and they keep telling me the damned CELL PHONE part is OPTIONAL. :P

[luca]

780$ ? That's 540€ before tax over here... eeek !

Make that 780€ :mad:

[Texrat]

Make that 780€ :mad:

That number can't be right...

[livefreeordie]

Make that 780€ :mad:

That $780 is just the 550 euros from the article converted to American currency, so unless Eldar's guess is wrong, you're jumping to conclusions.

[quipper8]

Make that 780€ :mad:


Holy smokes, that is a lot of money. I will want one bad, but will probably have to wait for the price to come down about 9 months before I could justify getting one. Over $1000, yikes!

[deadmalc]

Yes, the same country that brought us "Follow the sun" coverage as a formal term for 24-hour support (see ITIL V3 spec). :rolleyes:

"vendor agnostic" etc. etc.

But without this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buzzword_bingo) how would we survive?

[danramos]

Holy smokes, that is a lot of money. I will want one bad, but will probably have to wait for the price to come down about 9 months before I could justify getting one. Over $1000, yikes!

I almost guarantee you he took the euro number and converted it to US dollars... and now he decided to think it was euros again without converting. As incredibly expensive as US $780 already is for a tablet, it doesn't need to exaggerated.

[mullf]

There is also a PC- connectivity manager ...

http://talk.maemo.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=3931&stc=1&d=1250712677

And the all-important "Crash Reporter".

[attila77]

That number can't be right...

Not sure about future products, but around here the N810 did (does ?) cost roughly as much euros as it did dollars. Hopefully that means 550$ and not 780E :) :(

[Architengi]

It is time this Nokia device will bring multi-touch as well.

Because it is all about usability and user friendly that a device gets traction from the masses...

[anidel]

I don't get all this fuss about multi-touch. Yes, it can be exploited to bring some nice features, but I don't see how it is that much mandatory.

[benny1967]

I don't get all this fuss about multi-touch. Yes, it can be exploited to bring some nice features, but I don't see how it is that much mandatory.

especially on a mobile device like a phone: you need to be able to use a phone's features with only one hand. i don't see how this would work with multi-touch.

[Architengi]

I don't get all this fuss about multi-touch. Yes, it can be exploited to bring some nice features, but I don't see how it is that much mandatory.

Well, from simply easy zooming in ovi maps or in browser to having games with no d-pad, multi-touch is what makes a big difference in usability. I know many people would want to only use mainly the phone capabilities, but also many people want gaming, easy browsing and easy maps navigation.

Then there are applications on iPhone that ppl want them ported to maemo, but they need also UI re-design if for the multi-touch gestures buttons or scroll bars need to occupy the screen for zooming and other things achieved easily with multi-touch.

[attila77]

I don't get all this fuss about multi-touch. Yes, it can be exploited to bring some nice features, but I don't see how it is that much mandatory.

It's the iPhone lookalike requirement. Anything the iPhone has or does, you need to have, too. It doesn't matter how it fits your platform/applications/hardware. You know, 'everything is better with lasers'.

[Architengi]

It's the iPhone lookalike requirement. Anything the iPhone has or does, you need to have, too. It doesn't matter how it fits your platform/applications/hardware. You know, 'everything is better with lasers'.

Nokia would put multi-touch but they can't.

Because it is a patent of Apple. I don't know how Palm Pre got it...

[Gorgon]

Multi-touch is over rated. Quick, one-handed navigation is my requirement for my device. I spent some time with the Palm Pre and navigation was super easy with one hand with quick thumb gestures to do what I needed to do. I was thoroughly impressed until I opened Google Maps and it required multi touch to zoom. I was actually irritated that I had to use two hands to zoom. I'd rather have faded + and - buttons on the screen for zooming.

[benny1967]

Nokia would put multi-touch but they can't. Because it is a patent of Apple.

urban legend.

I don't know how Palm Pre got it...

there's one use case apple has patented, and if palm uses that, they got the patent just the same way apple got nokia's patents for cellular technology: they licensed it.

patents are there to make money from inventions, not to prevent others using them.

[allnameswereout]

Multi-touch is over rated. Quick, one-handed navigation is my requirement for my device. I spent some time with the Palm Pre and navigation was super easy with one hand with quick thumb gestures to do what I needed to do. I was thoroughly impressed until I opened Google Maps and it required multi touch to zoom. I was actually irritated that I had to use two hands to zoom. I'd rather have faded + and - buttons on the screen for zooming.2 hands? 2 fingers you mean. I find it goes faster than pressing + and - buttons.

[attila77]

Nokia would put multi-touch but they can't.
Because it is a patent of Apple. I don't know how Palm Pre got it...

A patent does not mean 'do it and die'. It means 'you have to ask/pay me if you want to do it'. That's probably how the Pre got it, and, as many Nokians pointed out, Nokia also has a number od patents which are used by Apple, so never say never.

How easy would it be to implement that functionality into Symbian or Maemo apps is a different matter (think Hildonization is a fuss ? Wait till you see multitouch !)

[Architengi]

urban legend.



there's one use case apple has patented, and if palm uses that, they got the patent just the same way apple got nokia's patents for cellular technology: they licensed it.

patents are there to make money from inventions, not to prevent others using them.

So there is no way Apple says NO to Nokia on selling a license on that patent? If they sell the licence with 10$/device to Palm, maybe they can ask from Nokia 99$ and this is another way of saying NO. :(

[vkv.raju]

Well, I can't say if multi-touch is over-rated or not. But, if there is a user base asking for it, then why can't Nokia provide it. Hardware specs may be good for geeks but features are what sells well with end consumers. When we are providing the best of features, why stop short of one silly feature. Just my opinion.

I am not sure, if multi-touch is a patent of apple. I guess not. Recently announced Zii (from Creative) too offers it (10 fingers at a time!).

Btw, I am guessing that N900 has some kind of trick for multi-touch which isn't announced/leaked yet!

[Bundyo]

Multi-touch is over rated. Quick, one-handed navigation is my requirement for my device. I spent some time with the Palm Pre and navigation was super easy with one hand with quick thumb gestures to do what I needed to do. I was thoroughly impressed until I opened Google Maps and it required multi touch to zoom. I was actually irritated that I had to use two hands to zoom. I'd rather have faded + and - buttons on the screen for zooming.

Yes, multi-touch only for zooming sucks, but there is one area that can benefit - game controls (when you don't have buttons, multi-touch does help).

[benny1967]

(when you don't have buttons, multi-touch does help).

so can we have the buttons then, please? ;)

[peterjb31]

Btw, I am guessing that N900 has some kind of trick for multi-touch which isn't announced/leaked yet!

Unlikely as for real multitouch you really need a capacitive screen and the N900 specs states it has a resistive touch screen. Personally I don't like capacitive touch screens, they use considerably more power than resistive and can't measure pressure very easily which I think is a really useful feature.

[vkv.raju]

Unlikely as for real multitouch you really need a capacitive screen and the N900 specs states it has a resistive touch screen. Personally I don't like capacitive touch screens, they use considerably more power than resistive and can't measure pressure very easily which I think is a really useful feature.

Looks like, multi-touch is now available for resistive screens too.

http://www.umpcportal.com/2009/02/multi-touch-comes-to-resistive-touchscreens

[ysss]

Being opensource and all, can't you just change the code if you don't like it? :D

[anidel]

Generally multi-touch means no stylus, no stylus means no handwriting, no note-taking (with a stylus), thus no Xournal :p

Joking, but true, multi-touch screen do not have high resolution for the touch. This sucks.
Until they fix it (and seems like they're doing it), I much prefer resistive screens with a nice UI than a multi-touch capacitive screen.

[daperl]

Multi-touch for the iPhone OS Google Earth app is undisputedly cool. That said, how often do I use that app? Not since the day I installed it. As I've mentioned before, multi-touch is not needed for zooming/unzooming in mobile Safari 99.99% of the time. The iPhone OS webkit double-tap/zoom-to-the-div-width feature (WebTap?) practically eliminates the need for multi-touch. So, in general, how often do I use multi-touch? .01% of the time. YMMV*, blah, blah blah, blah blah.

*May increase risk of heart attack or may cause anal leakage.

[Gorgon]

2 hands? 2 fingers you mean. I find it goes faster than pressing + and - buttons.

So you can multi-touch zoom with the device in your hand without using the other hand?

[ysss]

I think multitouch is great for manipulating 2D objects like photos. You can perform manipulation of 3 separate functions at the same time and intuitively compared with single touch: move, rotate and zoom.

This isn't necessary for most other operations (browsing, email, file operations, etc). So.. horses for courses.. etc.

Btw, double-tap/zoom-to-the-div's-width is a NECESSITY for a device with 3.5" screen :D

[Bundyo]

So you can multi-touch zoom with the device in your hand without using the other hand?

Maybe he has more fingers than you? Or a handy iphone stand on one of them :D

[anidel]

Yes, it's very easy to use multi-touch for zooming using only one hand.
It's the way everyone use it!

But still.. it's nothing more than a wow effect. Nothing mandatory.

[benny1967]

Yes, it's very easy to use multi-touch for zooming using only one hand.
It's the way everyone use it!

how would you do this?

if i hold any phone in my hand, the only finger i can touch the front side with is my thumb. i couldn't possibly bring any other finger to touch the screen at a certain point, let alone perform coordinated gestures.

[Naranek]

I also have the impression that the most common way to zoom with multitouch is to hold the device in one hand and zoom with two fingers from the other - hence using two hands. But aren't we veering a bit off topic here?

[daperl]

how would you do this?

if i hold any phone in my hand, the only finger i can touch the front side with is my thumb. i couldn't possibly bring any other finger to touch the screen at a certain point, let alone perform coordinated gestures.

With your palm facing the screen, put your thumb on the bottom, pinky and ring finger on top. This leaves both your index and middle fingers free to touch the screen. But you would usually only do this if you were in a pinch. :)

[anidel]

how would you do this?

if i hold any phone in my hand, the only finger i can touch the front side with is my thumb. i couldn't possibly bring any other finger to touch the screen at a certain point, let alone perform
coordinated gestures.

EDIT: Sorry I totally misunderstood :) With one hand on the iPhone can be done, but it awkward... I dunno what I was thinking, probably comparing laying the phone on the table and using two hands against holding the phone with one hand and use the other to multi-touch :)

Forget what's below:

Wow.. with one hand you hold the phone, the other hand does multi-touch:

place thumb and index fingers and move them away from each other -> the picture, website will zoom in

place thumb index fingers away from each other and move them to meet at the centre of the screen -> zoom out

That complicated?

If you're playing a game, you hold the phone horizontally and use the two thumb fingers.

I can't think of any other way of using multi-touch...

Edit: look for example at how this guy uses it : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gk-WQ18IRdQ

[Mara]

With your palm facing the screen, put your thumb on the bottom, pinky and ring finger on top. This leaves both your index and middle fingers free to touch the screen. But you would usually only do this if you were in a pinch. :)

Thanks for revealing this "multi-touch with one hand" secret. I tried to demo this with N810 (just as a mock-up device, obviously not multi-touch capable), but found it pretty difficult. The index and middle finger aren't very flexible (at least mine...). There are only some certain areas on the screen you can reach with reasonable difficulty. The bottom part of the screen is almost completely covered with the hand/fingers. If you need visibility to the bottom part of the screen, then this method is not very useful.

[attila77]

That complicated?

No, it's just that as benny, says, it's hard to do with one hand. Now, we all know cool people don't do stuff with one hand as it's too geeky (it means that you're either capable of doing two things simultaneously, or that you're packed up, both signs of non-hipness). The put-cup-down-to-zoom-or-scroll-then-pick-it-back-up during morning newsreads is not my idea of usability.

[anidel]

No, it's just that as benny, says, it's hard to do with one hand. Now, we all know cool people don't do stuff with one hand as it's too geeky (it means that you're either capable of doing two things simultaneously, or that you're packed up, both signs of non-hipness). The put-cup-down-to-zoom-or-scroll-then-pick-it-back-up during morning newsreads is not my idea of usability.

I've updated that answer, I was totally lost :)
Was thinking at something else.. :P

[allnameswereout]

Multi-touch for the iPhone OS Google Earth app is undisputedly cool.That said, how often do I use that app?For the type of application not only Google Earth.

As I've mentioned before, multi-touch is not needed for zooming/unzooming in mobile Safari 99.99% of the time.Because double tap allows you to conveniently zoom in on the place you want to read/see. When that doesn't work well, such as in Google Earth, you need 'pinch' gesture.

So you can multi-touch zoom with the device in your hand without using the other hand?Yes, I can.

To clarify: let the device lay down on your hand palm and spread your 3 fingers. Then use thumb and point finger to zoom. After that you can use either one of those fingers to to move left/right/up/down.

Case in point: I've used this in Munich, in the rain, while using my iPod touch to load some Google Maps from an open WiFi AP.

Its not what I'd call convenient but usable for emergency or quick usage. For most people however something, e.g. a seperate hand, has to hold the device.

I can do what you imply with my E71 (I zoom in, out, and move left/right/up/down) easier than I was able to do that on my Nokia N810 however it still takes various buttons to press and therefore attention/focus. Multi touch gets me to the map quicker because I visually 'travel' through the map. With buttons it feels more ar-ti-fi-cial.

[ysss]

You guys are talking about multitouch as if 90% of the tablet's operation is going to be using it. Even on the iPhone it's sort of an optional gesture to use... for the most part (90%), you can manage the phone with a single hand, tap & double tapping your way around.

On the browser (the most important app to me), it takes a quick double-click to zoom into the target's div-width. Another double click to zoom out. Single click to pick a link. That's all there is to it. I very rarely need to manually zoom in\out with multitouch... and when I do, I very much prefer the fluidness and precision of multitouch than (-)(+) buttons like on the Android's browser.

[daperl]

I not say one-handed multi-touch is zohan silky smooth, but I tell you, I do this.

[volt]

You need multitouch for piano applications. Apart from that, it's mostly a sales pitch. HP has multitouch on some of their laptops, and I bet not any of you have bothered to check out which models those are. But had it been Apple laptops that had multitouch, we'd never heard the end of it.

[sondjata]

You need multitouch for piano applications. Apart from that, it's mostly a sales pitch. HP has multitouch on some of their laptops, and I bet not any of you have bothered to check out which models those are. But had it been Apple laptops that had multitouch, we'd never heard the end of it.

actually, latest apple laptops do have multitouch

[konttori]

If interested in how really there is no apple mutitouch patent in the sense that it would actually affect anything but some special case:
http://gizmodo.com/5142445/dissecting-apples-multitouch-patent-can-it-stop-palm
actually the part where gizmondo guys themselves try to make sense of it is where you should stop reading.

For the cases that they are discussing afterwards, there are prior art cases (like the rotation).

[jethro.itt]

actually, latest apple laptops do have multitouch

Actually, even a lowly iBook from 2003 does have limited multitouch capability (using a third-party driver (http://iscroll2.sourceforge.net/)): the two-finger scroll as well as two-finger tap for secondary button press. And let me tell you, it was a revelation when I first tried it, after using regular touchpads and trackpoints on PC laptops for so long.

It's still the only multitouch gesture I regularly use on my latest version MacBook Pro, even though it supports pinch, rotate, three- and four-finger swipe gestures as well.

That said, I personally don't cosider multitouch a necessary feature on a mobile device. 770, N800 and N810 all have pretty mediocre resistive touchscreens. I would prefer a high-resolution, accurate, sensitive resistive touchscreen over capacitive touchscreen any day.

[ysss]

Aye.
Two fingers scroll and right click are awesome.
The 3 fingers expose shortcuts are rather nice too.

For a smartphone with sub 4" screen, which are often used 1 handed anyway, I think a capacitve screen with appropriately designed UI would work better than resistive screen.

Of course having the cake and eating it too would be preferable: HTC has patented a high resolution stylus+capacitive screen system.

[luca]

I almost guarantee you he took the euro number and converted it to US dollars... and now he decided to think it was euros again without converting. As incredibly expensive as US $780 already is for a tablet, it doesn't need to exaggerated.

If it is so, then I am wrong: I thought that the quoted price in dollars was the right one.
I just wanted to point out that these companies usually sell for the same amount in euros, dollars and pounds. Sometimes the euro amount is even higher than the dollar amount :mad:

[eltinio]

If it is so, then I am wrong: I thought that the quoted price in dollars was the right one.
I just wanted to point out that these companies usually sell for the same amount in euros, dollars and pounds. Sometimes the euro amount is even higher than the dollar amount :mad:

780 euro would be the only reason why not to get this phone. I can live with 550 euro but 780 euro is to much an will kill the phone.

[GeneralAntilles]

actually, latest apple laptops do have multitouch

And this is one feature which totally kicks *** in a trackpad. Forward/back, next/previous tab and scrolling all on the trackpad makes browsing very convenient.

[YoDude]

And this is one feature which totally kicks *** in a trackpad. Forward/back, next/previous tab and scrolling all on the trackpad makes browsing very convenient.

Now that^ is something that might be worth having multi-touch on a portable device and that is, if the tablet could also be used as a Bluetooth pointing device for a big screened desk or laptop. :cool:

Especially cool if one of the tablets drives was recognized and accessed by the other machine as portable storage...

and...

Thanks for revealing this "multi-touch with one hand" secret. I tried to demo this with N810 (just as a mock-up device, obviously not multi-touch capable), but found it pretty difficult. The index and middle finger aren't very flexible (at least mine...). There are only some certain areas on the screen you can reach with reasonable difficulty. The bottom part of the screen is almost completely covered with the hand/fingers. If you need visibility to the bottom part of the screen, then this method is not very useful.

Agreed... besides, I'd rather keep my middle finger free at all times... for social commentary. :D

[mullf]

So there is no way Apple says NO to Nokia on selling a license on that patent? If they sell the licence with 10$/device to Palm, maybe they can ask from Nokia 99$ and this is another way of saying NO. :(

Assuming for the sake of argument that Apple owns such a patent (which has not been demonstrated), if Apple thinks it will make more money by not licensing the patent, or by not licensing it to particular companies, it won't.

[Texrat]

"vendor agnostic" etc. etc.

But without this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buzzword_bingo) how would we survive?

LOL... I love that game. And I have to admit, we're probably more responsible for nutty phrases than anyone... not counting the occasional hilarious translation. :D

[mullf]

But, if there is a user base asking for it, then why can't Nokia provide it.

And remember to throw in the hard case! ;-)

[Laughing Man]

Not sure if Apple still "owns" the patent to multi-touch. Last I heard some company in Asia was suing Apple for patent infringement over multi-touch.

[Texrat]

So there is no way Apple says NO to Nokia on selling a license on that patent? If they sell the licence with 10$/device to Palm, maybe they can ask from Nokia 99$ and this is another way of saying NO. :(

As much as I enjoy speculating, let's not get too far ahead of ourselves, eh? ;)

[quipper8]

and never isi iti am around a lot of iphone users and i dont thak i ave ever seen any of them use multitoushh. They are like most fols

[anidel]

as far as I know, Apple did not invent multi-touch. Indeed, as usual, they bought the license and brought it to the masses with plenty of fanfare (what many call 'rising the bar').

[ysss]

and never isi iti am around a lot of iphone users and i dont thak i ave ever seen any of them use multitoushh. They are like most fols

Better make sure you sound smart before daring to call others 'fols',
mate ;)

Just a friendly advice.

[attila77]

Better make sure you sound smart before daring to call others 'fols',
mate ;)

Just a friendly advice.

I'll give him the benefit of a doubt that the typo hides 'folks' and not a missing 'o' :)

[ysss]

Either way, it looks like he's havin a smashin weekend ;D

[Espoo888]

Hi Maemo dudes! This is my first post :cool:

I am Scottish and have been living and working in Finland for the past 10 years.

I am a huge mobile tech addict and a big fan of Nokia - though hopefully not infected with the blind fanboy virus :)

I have always admired Nokia's internet tablets but my personal holy grail is the all-in-one powerhouse device - which obviously includes cellphone functionality. Whilst there will always be inherent compromises in such a device (e.g. screen size), technological advancements, convergence and miniturisation are bringing us very close. Some people think we're already there with the iPhone - but for me the OS is crippled by the lack of multi-tasking and file management and the device is a triumph of form over function.

So RX-51, the first Maemo 5 device has hit me like a shot of adrenaline to the heart:D The implications for high end Nokia devices are enormous. As Eldar says, Nokia now have a scalable vertical OS. They also have recently entered into strategic partnership with Intel. So talking about resistive vs capacitive screens kind of misses the big picture. This is a major strategic move from Nokia and all kinds of devices will be produced; from 3.5" to 11", small keyboard, large keyboard or no keyboard, capacitive and resistive, all with an ever improving combination of OS, application suite and chipset.

I am quite surprised by some views in this forum that the integrated cellphone radios are undesirable. The only reason I can imagine for this attitude is cost as a result of the backwards and anti-competitive US network operators. From a pure technological point of view why would anyone not want always on high bandwidth connectivity in their device? In Finland and much of Europe we can buy devices without contracts and unlimited 3G/HSPA data plans are very reasonable. The networks are also very good.

But competition and logical inevitability will win out - the future of MID's or internet tablets or netbooks or laptops includes integrated cellular data capabilities.

I think that the RX-51 will be a great device with many flaws (OS, software, device build, etc.) but I will buy one as soon as I possibly can :D Maemo 5 has a great future and I want to be on the train right from the start.

I look forward to sharing in your excitement and learning from your experiences.

Cheers!

PS - I do not and have never worked for Nokia but my work has often been in closely related areas.

[Benson]

So there is no way Apple says NO to Nokia on selling a license on that patent? If they sell the licence with 10$/device to Palm, maybe they can ask from Nokia 99$ and this is another way of saying NO. :(

Sure, and Nokia can mention that a few of their patents are going to become more expensive to license for the next iPhone...

But unless Apple insanely overestimates the threat from the RX-51, it makes no sense to turn down revenue from it. The Pre was obviously (to me, anyway) a much greater threat to Apple than the RX-51, so if they were going to play hardball on a patent, I think they'd have done it there already.

[luca]

I am quite surprised by some views in this forum that the integrated cellphone radios are undesirable. The only reason I can imagine for this attitude is cost as a result of the backwards and anti-competitive US network operators. From a pure technological point of view why would anyone not want always on high bandwidth connectivity in their device? In Finland and much of Europe we can buy devices without contracts and unlimited 3G/HSPA data plans are very reasonable. The networks are also very good.


Only in Finland, Sweden and other nearby countries. In the rest of europe data rates are either outrageously high or outrageously crippled and the networks are just so so.
Not to mention the outrageously high roaming charges.

[Espoo888]

Only in Finland, Sweden and other nearby countries. In the rest of europe data rates are either outrageously high or outrageously crippled and the networks are just so so.
Not to mention the outrageously high roaming charges.

T-Mobile UK are offering unlimited data for a £7.50 monthly add on fee - that's not that much.

But you are right, mobile data prices are still generally high and 3G/HSPA network coverage generally poor. This situation is improving all the time though so I stand by my comment that integrated cellular radio is an absolute must have for any personal computing device.

Living in Finland has to have some advantages :cool:

[chilko]

some more info (http://forum2.mobile-review.com/showpost.php?p=814396&postcount=14551) about n900

I have a small problem understanding why is this so important to have or not have .
I have the N900 for about a week now and i really can't find any real flaw in it at least in the way it's screen behaves .

In most modes and functions , the icons and captions are large enough to be pressed with just a finger or your thumb . However , in the browser for example , the 800x480 resolution gives a great experience when viewing a page in landscape mode and without zooming . In this case you can either zoom in and select something with a touch of your finger or you can use the stylus and just make your selection while viewing a larger amount of each page .

Making a device so radically different from any other mobile phone Nokia has made in the past few years and one that can really amaze most people with it's UI and performance is unfair to be judged solely by the screen's technology .

[Picklesworth]

Actually, even a lowly iBook from 2003 does have limited multitouch capability (using a third-party driver (http://iscroll2.sourceforge.net/)): the two-finger scroll as well as two-finger tap for secondary button press. And let me tell you, it was a revelation when I first tried it, after using regular touchpads and trackpoints on PC laptops for so long.

The touchpad on my budget / performance Asus notebook does that just fine. Actually, MANY Synaptic touchpads support multi finger gestures; it's just that their Windows drivers are useless. In Linux, I have had two fingers to right click for ages. In the last year the driver has supported two-finger scrolling for my model, too. It now does this out of the box.
In addition, the previous Macbook also supported this except for the useless pinching and rotating gestures. (Which never seem to work anyway).
Oh, and my driver offers circular scrolling (iPod style), which is kind of cool but means sacrificing a corner of precious touchpad to become a scrolling hotspot.

The Synaptic driver for Windows purportedly supports gestures now (finally), but I could never get it to work. Probably involves opening the terminal (oops - sorry, the Run dialog) and typing in some incomprehensible commands :P

Thus, Apple, again did not invent "multitouch".


As for a small tablet like the N900, I also would prefer a sensitive resistive screen to a capacitive screen. By sensitive, I also happen to mean really pressure sensitive. This would allow for better web browser controls, for example. (An extremely light tap could be used to select stuff). You don't need multi-fingered gestures to improve usability. Just lots of user testing and focussed design with a reliable input mechanism.

[luca]

T-Mobile UK are offering unlimited data for a £7.50 monthly add on fee - that's not that much.

No, that's quite reasonable, but I'd like to see the small print and the baseline you'd have to add-on to.

Here in Spain the lowest rate you can get is a data only sim for 29€ limited to 5GB (after that the speed is reduced to 128Kbps).
The same company (http://www.simyo.es/) also offers a voice+data sim, but with that you'll pay 5.8€ up to 500Mb, then it's 10cents for each megabyte.
You can get apparently lower rates from other companies, but they're very limited (like, 100MB or so).
And none of the above works if you travel abroad (it'll actually works if you're willing to pay your entire wage in roaming charges).

[Espoo888]

Yeah mobile data costs still suck - but the technology is here to stay and prices will fall. I can't imagine a life without unlimited 3G/HSPA for web surfing, file transfers, internet radio, real time maps, podcasts, YouTube, etc. The N900 will just make it all even sweeter :)

Also, the lack of multi-tasking on the iPhone really starts to show up when you have access to always on high bandwidth data services - try listening to internet radio whilst using the GPS in your car on an iPhone...not possible. Or if you stop at a gas station and want to check your email or surf the net you have to shut down your GPS route mapping software and start all over again when you're ready to set off. Form over function I say!

[nwerneck]

Yeah mobile data costs still suck - but the technology is here to stay and prices will fall.

Aren't there any new technologies we should keep an eye on, to replace today's GSM?... I've heard some rumors. What communications technology will Nokia's 2011 phoneblet/tablone carry?

Is there a wimax somewhere in the future?

[zehjotkah]

Aren't there any new technologies we should keep an eye on, to replace today's GSM?... I've heard some rumors. What communications technology will Nokia's 2011 phoneblet/tablone carry?

Is there a wimax somewhere in the future?

/me likes that names: phoneblet/tablone... tablone reminds me of that (http://images.google.de/images?hl=de&source=hp&q=toblerone&btnG=Bilder-Suche&gbv=2&aq=f&oq=) :D

i think at least here in germany HSDPA and its successors are the future... not WIMAX.

[Texrat]

Is there a wimax somewhere in the future?

WiMAX was in the tablet family's recent past. :D

But there's always LTE...

[allnameswereout]

Imagine multi touch on this photo intead of the current interface. http://www.aguntherphotography.com/machupicchu_222mp.html

[luca]

T-Mobile UK are offering unlimited data for a £7.50 monthly add on fee - that's not that much.

I cannot find this offer on t-mobile uk website.
The most similar one is this one (http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/shop/mobile-phones/sim-card/pay-monthly/pay-monthly-solo/solo-20/allowances/) (that's 5 pounds more than the plan without internet) and this is the small print (http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/shop/terms-and-conditions/solo/#offer1):


Offer extended. Join Solo 20, 25,30 or 35 by visiting us in store, calling us or through the T-Mobile online store before 31 August 2009 and you'll get free unlimited texts for as long as you continuously stay on your chosen plan. The free texts are the same type as your inclusive ones. You may lose your free texts if you move price plan, renew or upgrade your plan. You'll also get internet on your phone included every month at no extra cost for as long as you continuously stay on this plan. You may lose your internet if you move from, renew or upgrade your price plan.

You'll need internet coverage, check it at t-mobile.co.uk/streetcheck. Remember that you can only use internet on your phone in the UK and you can't use your phone as a modem or use your internet for peer to peer file sharing, instant messaging (except if you have a Sidekick) or making internet phone calls.

This option comes with a fair use policy of 1GB a month. We'll monitor how much you send and receive each calendar month so that we can protect our network for all our customers. If you use more than your fair use policy amount, we won't charge you any more, but we may restrict how you can use your plan, depending on how often you go over your amount and by how much.


And they call it unlimited.....

[allnameswereout]

From a pure technological point of view why would anyone not want always on high bandwidth connectivity in their device? In Finland and much of Europe we can buy devices without contracts and unlimited 3G/HSPA data plans are very reasonable. The networks are also very good.


1) Price (pre-paid or contract)
2) Performance (bandwidth, latency, availability of network, overbooking)
3) Always-on not needed nor part of user experience (for whatever reason).
4) Privacy (e.g. N800 is harder to track)
5) Roaming costs (yours truelly burned 400 EUR for 30 MB in Serbia, Europe :o )

Overbooking requires special mention. You say 'unlimited data plans'. There is no such thing as unlimited data, let alone unlimited data plans. There is always overbooking and some kind of FUP. Just, 'unlimited data' means either 1) vague FUP 2) very high price, targetted at corporate users.

[Espoo888]

Yeah I know - mobile data is still quite expensive - my point is that the technology rocks and the trends are all broadly but strongly moving in the right direction

- network coverage, capacities and bandwidth are increasing

- 3G/HSDPA/HSUPA chipsets are being integrated into an increasing percentage of devices and at lower price points

- data prices are coming down and will fall significantly in the next 5-10 years

I know that I'm really lucky - I have one of those all you can eat corporate plans in Finland and they actually have good networks with enough capacity here - I regularly clock 750Kb/s whilst out and about with my E71 :cool:

But this is the future - one day, not so long from now, having a MID without 3G/HSPA connectivity will feel like having a PC with a 56K modem ;)

And anyway, even if your data plan sucks its still good to have the option to use a fast data connection if you really need it.

[attila77]

5) Roaming costs (yours truelly burned 400 EUR for 30 MB in Serbia, Europe :o )

Ah yes. But don't worry, it's not just you/tourists, we shoot ourselves in the foot, too. It costs roughly the same when we leave our little walled garden, with a lot of telco cross-blaming and finger pointing why this is so. Thats why I have a dozen SIMs or so, for different countries, not very 21st century :(

[anidel]

T-Mobile UK are offering unlimited data for a £7.50 monthly add on fee - that's not that much.

But you are right, mobile data prices are still generally high and 3G/HSPA network coverage generally poor. This situation is improving all the time though so I stand by my comment that integrated cellular radio is an absolute must have for any personal computing device.

Living in Finland has to have some advantages :cool:

Vodafone UK gives it for 5£, even cheaper.. unlimited (Fair Usage policy applies).

[luca]

Vodafone UK gives it for 5£, even cheaper.. unlimited (Fair Usage policy applies).

I'm sorry but Vodafone and "unlimited internet" cannot appear together in the same sentence.
if "Fair usage" means "strictly limited to 1G, no voip, no instant messaging, no whatever we don't like today", isn't really unlimited, is it?

[dansus]

Loving my Tmobile webnwalk plus, 3gb and everything except voip allowed.

All for £7.50 on top.

[dansus]

Not sure if Apple still "owns" the patent to multi-touch. Last I heard some company in Asia was suing Apple for patent infringement over multi-touch.

From what i remember, Apple never owned the patent to MT and tried to buy the company that developed it but the owners realised there was a lot money to be made licensing it instead.

So i think Apple invested in the company in exchange for a period exclusivity of around 2 years and the patent only applied to a narrow usage case.

I could be wrong on this but i remember hearing it being discussed on TWIT a while back.

[Espoo888]

Looks like the unlimited data question touches a raw nerve - never mind.

Back on topic, the N900 has a GSM/3G/HSPA chipset and will be awesome.

Is it true that Eldar will post an N900 FAQ today?

Any idea of the questions list?

I would like a comprehensive list of S60 functions/apps that have been ported across to the Maemo 5 / N900 combo. This is important for me and anybody else who accepts that the N900 is a smartphone not an internet tablet :p

Maemo 5 + Nokia hardware + developer community + S60 functionality ports (Nokia) > Apple iPhone / Android / WM :D

[dansus]

The wierd thing about the N900 is that its running a pc like OS on a phone like hardware, hopefully it wont confuse consumers and end up emulating the recent failure of Linux on low end laptops.

[Kypeli]

The wierd thing about the N900 is that its running a pc like OS on a phone like hardware, hopefully it wont confuse consumers and end up emulating the recent failure of Linux on low end laptops.

What do you mean by PC Like OS? Just because there is a Linux kernel in it doesn't mean the UI, the drivers and the rest of OS stack couldn't be optimized for mobile use.

I also don't think there is a chance in confusing end users just because there is a Debian based Linux variant running on a piece of HW. The end user doesn't care if the OS is Linux, BSD or Windows - (s)he only wants a device that works well and fulfills her or his needs. Just as the success of the iPhone has nothing to do with the fact that there is a BSD core in it.

[vkv.raju]

The wierd thing about the N900 is that its running a pc like OS on a phone like hardware, hopefully it wont confuse consumers and end up emulating the recent failure of Linux on low end laptops.

Well, it's not running Windows. It's running a variant or an optimized version of the linux which IMHO is very much fine. Also, the OMAP3 processors are proven (Beagle, Pandora) to be doing good.

Apart from that, whatever eye-candy was missing/needed, Nokia team had already done a fantastic job on that. So, all in all, I don't see any issue at all.

The masses would love it!

-----------------------

Slightly offtopic: http://www.siliconindia.com/shownews/Nokia_Chief_meets_Manmohan_Singh-nid-60574.html/1/1
Nokia chief meets Indian Prime Minister to discuss about affordable connectivity in India.

With a 400+ (currently) million mobile market, I am just too excited how things turn out to be. Hip Hip Hurray :D;):p

[benny1967]

The wierd thing about the N900 is that its running a pc like OS on a phone like hardware, hopefully it wont confuse consumers and end up emulating the recent failure of Linux on low end laptops.

I don't think consumers "see" the OS. What they see is a user interface. Maemo 5 (other than previous versions) does its best to hide its desktop origins. In fact, some of the visual concepts come right from S60.

While this caused a lot of disappointment among those who expected another iteration of the traditional MID/netbook OS, it will certainly help newcomers understand that this is "only" a phone.

[Espoo888]

Multi-touch vs multi-tasking - which is more important?

You know my views - yes I would happily take both but if I have to choose then there's no contest.

[anidel]

I'm sorry but Vodafone and "unlimited internet" cannot appear together in the same sentence.
if "Fair usage" means "strictly limited to 1G, no voip, no instant messaging, no whatever we don't like today", isn't really unlimited, is it?

I thought the same. But it's unlimited until they decided you went too far.
So far I'm using it intensively and they didn't complain yet.

[volt]

Pardon me for not clearifying that I was talking about multitouch screens, not touchpads.

[Espoo888]

The new Nokia netbook has 3G/HSPA built-in - what a surprise!

http://europe.nokia.com/find-products/mini-laptop

If it's a computer and its portable then built-in cellular radio is now a minimum requirement :cool:

Seriously though it looks pretty sweet - they will sell a lot of these through and subsidised by the wireless operators - no more stupid dongles.

Back on topic - when will Eldar post his N900 Q&A?

[Texrat]

I have to say, that's an unusually-compelling (and slick) ad for a Nokia product...lol. Wonder if it will air on US television.

And that 3G sounds nice, but if there's no SIM slot and 850Mhz radio, it's useless for me... but as long as it can bluetooth-connect to a phone that's cool.

[mikkov]

And that 3G sounds nice, but if there's no SIM slot...

This may be a stupid question, but is there 3G/WCDMA devices without a SIM slot?

[ColdFusion]

Multi-touch vs multi-tasking - which is more important?

You know my views - yes I would happily take both but if I have to choose then there's no contest.

Actually the proper question is multitouch vs stylus. I wouldn't give up stylus just for a (probable) 0,1% of usability increase in zooming.

[TenSpeed]

Sorry, as this is off topic to this thread, but in response to Texrat:

Not sure about 850MHz (has anyone found an FCC filing?), but the Nokia Booklet is said to have a "hot-swappable" SIM slot. I think 850 is a safe bet, as T-Mobile might be looking at launching a few devices. Just speculation, but we'll find out in a week or so.

[sevla]

This may be a stupid question, but is there 3G/WCDMA devices without a SIM slot?

According to engadget.com it has hot swappable sim capabilities.

[daperl]

The new Nokia netbook has 3G/HSPA built-in - what a surprise!

http://europe.nokia.com/find-products/mini-laptop

If it's a computer and its portable then built-in cellular radio is now a minimum requirement :cool:

Seriously though it looks pretty sweet - they will sell a lot of these through and subsidised by the wireless operators - no more stupid dongles.

Back on topic - when will Eldar post his N900 Q&A?

"Nokia recommends Windows"

That just made an already grey morning a little greyer.

[Texrat]

This may be a stupid question, but is there 3G/WCDMA devices without a SIM slot?

In some CDMA devices the SIM is not swappable... not easily, anyway.

I didn't see that the booklet had WCDMA so my apologies if my comment was a red herring.

Also sorry for the OT-- didn't realize what thread I was in when I replied to the other post. :o

[attila77]

"Nokia recommends Windows"


The other one is a marketing genius, too. Windows: Life without walls. Hell, if there were no walls, there would be no need for windows either.

[livefreeordie]

The wierd thing about the N900 is that its running a pc like OS on a phone like hardware, hopefully it wont confuse consumers and end up emulating the recent failure of Linux on low end laptops.

Linux failed on the laptops because the manufacturers screwed up the software completely. On the eeePC, what little software you got was insecure, and the "package manager" (to use the term loosely) was horrible. The GUI was simple alright, but also buggy.

Had they shipped Debian stable with the Maemo interface and KDE apps, things would be looking a lot different now.

[daperl]

The other one is a marketing genius, too. Windows: Life without walls. Hell, if there were no walls, there would be no need for windows either.

"Life without walls." That's code for, "Virus, come on in."

I was just watching some Planet Earth last night. Ask an Emperor Penguin how nice life is without walls. Or ask your neighbors.

What a dumb a*s marketing phrase.

[daperl]

The other one is a marketing genius, too. Windows: Life without walls. Hell, if there were no walls, there would be no need for windows either.

Or maybe this is leftovers from there Iranian marketing campaign.

[zehjotkah]

The other one is a marketing genius, too. Windows: Life without walls. Hell, if there were no walls, there would be no need for windows either.

and no need for gates...

[qole]

Anyone else think that Eldar's threat to post a FAQ was an attempt to extort something (more) from Nokia?

[zehjotkah]

Anyone else think that Eldar's threat to post a FAQ was an attempt to extort something (more) from Nokia?

in the sense of "extort a confession" or "extort money"???

[zerojay]

Anyone else think that Eldar's threat to post a FAQ was an attempt to extort something (more) from Nokia?

"We don't negotiate with terrorists."

[Reggie]

New pic! http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/24/nokia-n900-puts-on-makeup-does-hair-for-leaked-press-shot/

Looks like there's a front camera and maybe proximity and ambient sensors.

3973

[ColdFusion]

sweeeet! So it's confirmed that it'll be named N900.

[Espoo888]

I think I'm in love :o

[Reggie]

Where's the conference button? ;)


New pic! http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/24/nokia-n900-puts-on-makeup-does-hair-for-leaked-press-shot/

Looks like there's a front camera and maybe proximity and ambient sensors.

http://talk.maemo.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=3973

[Texrat]

Where's the conference button? ;)

Maybe it's a gesture sort of thing. :D

[ColdFusion]

Where's the conference button? ;)

maybe in the menu, there are more options. I'm sure Nokia wouldn't miss any phone features. After all, they aren't noobs like Apple ;)

[Reggie]

maybe in the menu, there are more options. I'm sure Nokia wouldn't miss any phone features. After all, they aren't noobs like Apple ;)

Maybe it's in the dialpad button. FYI, the iPhone has it. ;)

[Espoo888]

Where's the conference button? ;)

Gotta be the blue arrow to bring up the context menu - no?

[ysss]

Too bad the iphone doesn't multitask. So as soon as you try to call up your calendar app to check your schedule, the phone call cuts off.











kidding :D

[sevla]

Maybe it's a gesture sort of thing. :D

I'm guessing the option shows up when there's another party calling or on the other line?

[zerojay]

Gotta be the blue arrow to bring up the context menu - no?

Blue arrow at the top is "go back".

[Texrat]

I'm guessing the option shows up when there's another party calling or on the other line?

Starting a conference requires some sort of menu item or button.

[ColdFusion]

Well with it being open source and all, and not being a let's say a windows based netbook, we have the FREEDOM to add whatever conference or otherwise feature we might deem important. ;)

[qwerty12]

Gotta be the blue arrow to bring up the context menu - no?

In Fremantle, for applications using the Hildon(App)Menu (and I'm pretty sure that all of Nokia's GUI applications are ;)), the menu is brought up by hitting the title, "Call" in this case. :)

[ysss]

I'm guessing the option shows up when there's another party calling or on the other line?

If the feature is there, usually you can initiate conference call with it too.

[sevla]

Starting a conference requires some sort of menu item or button.

Ok, I guess I was thinking of the wrong thing. I was referring to merging two calls while your on one of the "lines".

[dormant]

I think I'm in love :o

With the n900 or Marina Harisson?

[umberto_soprano]

Quite disappointed.

One of the main reasons I (still) use my N810 is watching movies on trains or similar. In respect of this the 3.5 screen is a no-buy to me.

[Den in USA]

Quite disappointed.

One of the main reasons I (still) use my N810 is watching movies on trains or similar. In respect of this the 3.5 screen is a no-buy to me.

I agree, even my 3.5 in Garmin GPS screen was too small. I later bought the one with the 4.2 in screen.

[jandmdickerson]

I agree, even my 3.5 in Garmin GPS screen was too small. I later bought the one with the 4.2 in screen.

I am still confident this is merely the lead device, and next to bat is our 4 inch plus tablet.;)

[Team C]

More questions answered by Eldar how many more Maemo Devices by year end ?
1.... 2 devices in next 9 months
N900 will be the highest one that we will see til the end of this year?
N900 - yes other is just a variant
From
http://forum2.mobile-review.com/showthread.php?t=69892&page=294