Portrait favorites

[attila77]

Check those applications/options you consider absolutely essential to be supported in portrait mode. Please try to prioritize, checking all options is meaningless.

The phone style on-screen keyboard is listed as an option for text/number entry in applications other than the dialer (for example messaging with in combination with T9, etc)

[sachin007]

How about starting a poll?

[attila77]

It is a poll, you trigger happy maemite, give me a minute to type the choices in :)

[JayOnThaBeat]

I would think the dialpad osk would already be in portrait mode, no?

[attila77]

I would think the dialpad osk would already be in portrait mode, no?

Yes, but it was suggested to be used for generic one hand text entry (via T9), like for messaging, not just the dialer.

[ysss]

Voted for 4 out of 10 :D

[johnkzin]

It says which one do you want "first", but it lets you vote for more than one? that seems backward. I followed the "first" and only voted for one item (screensaver/clock), but really, all of those things should be on the list. For me, the order would be:


Screensaver/Clock/Status-Notifier
Desktop/Dashboard
Media Player
Contacts
Calendar
(day view, event list, and task list; I'm agnostic about week and month view)
Tie between:12-key keypad for T-9 style input AND full qwerty portrait keyboard
(Need at least one of those, IMO, before messaging and email are useful in portrait mode ... and I don't care which one it is)
Messaging
Email
Document Viewer

[attila77]

It says which one do you want "first", but it lets you vote for more than one?

First as in 'first batch' (not native English speaker, sorry for the confusion :( ). Nokia likely won't be releasing them one by one but in SSU-s. I felt forcing people to pick a single most important app would be wrong, and polls don't let you order or spread a number of points accross multiple entries... That's why I went for multiple choices and a pretty please explained in the first post :)

[nilchak]

Contacts ?
I think Quim did say (http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=319545&postcount=55)that Contact is already in portrait mode - the contacts list used to call up anyone.

[timsamoff]

Contacts ?
I think Quim did say (http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=319545&postcount=55)that Contact is already in portrait mode - the contacts list used to call up anyone.
The Contacts app isn't.

Thanks for this poll. Normally, I don't like polls, but... Good idea! :)

Tim

[linuxeventually]

What about web browsers? Or are you grouping that into the "that's up to an individual developers" category? Which I sorta agree on though MicroB is "official" so yeah.

[frals]

Messaging + T9. :)

[johnkzin]

First as in 'first batch' (not native English speaker, sorry for the confusion :( ). Nokia likely won't be releasing them one by one but in SSU-s. I felt forcing people to pick a single most important app would be wrong, and polls don't let you order or spread a number of points accross multiple entries... That's why I went for multiple choices and a pretty please explained in the first post :)


Aaah. In that case, "first batch" for me would definitely include:

Screen saver (the only one of these I voted for, and I don't know if I can change my vote)
Dashboard
Media Player

And maybe (in the first batch):
Contacts
Calendar (day view, event view, task list)


While I would like to have T9, Qwerty, Messaging, and Email in the first batch, I can wait til the 2nd batch.


I just realized that "Browser" isn't on the list... the fennec news might make that moot (or maybe I missed/forgot the news for this already being done), but I definitely think the built-in browser should be in the first batch.

[sachin007]

Just because it will mess the widgets on the home screen is never a valid reason for the lack of portrait mode.

To put it simply

"portrait mode >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wide widgets"

[qole]

T9?! Whu?

If the iPhone can do a full portrait OSK, so can Maemo! :)

And yeah, the music player really needs to be able to do portrait.

[attila77]

T9?! Whu?

Just listing propositions from the original thread. T9 had I believe two reasons, one is that it uses less screen estate, and the second that with one handed use a full qwerty might be awkward as you'd need to move your thumb around quite a bit.

[Capt'n Corrupt]

I second media player. When I think of one-handed tasks, this is near the top. But I'd put the interface first, because it would be annoying to have to use two hands to get to a one-handed app.

As mentioned in the other portrait thread, a solution for this is simply to have a different desktop for portrait mode. Just like the landscaped mode, it'll be customized by the user with the tasks that user is likely to use when on-the-go.

}8^O~

[joppu]

Nokia Maps/Navigation would be also very useful in portrait mode for one handed walking navigation.

[daperl]

All camera apps.

[ysss]

All camera apps.

Didn't you get the memo?
They think you just need to change the way you hold the device to reach the multiple triggers..

[johnkzin]

T9?! Whu?

If the iPhone can do a full portrait OSK, so can Maemo! :)

And yeah, the music player really needs to be able to do portrait.

Yes, if the iPhone could do a full (usable/doesn't-suck) portait virtual keyboard, then so can Maemo.

But the iPhone can't.

Reasons to do T9:

1) more people are familiar with T9 or T9-style input than with qwerty thumb keyboards.

2) fewer buttons + similar screen area = bigger buttons = more accuracy than the crappy iPhone portrait virtual keyboard.

3) usable one handed -- even the beloved iPhone portrait qwerty requires two thumbs (and, doesn't the iPhone have a T9 mode, as well? if so, so much for the idea that Maemo doesn't need one if they have a qwerty one).

[SubCore]

I'm missing the browser option, but since i've already seen screenshots of fennec in portrait mode, that's probably not an issue any more, right?

[Capt'n Corrupt]

@SubCore,

It doesn't really matter to us, but consider the scores of users that will never change their browser (IE6 crowd).

}8^I~

[tangs]

Well, i think that all those apps should be available in portrait.
It's very important that Nokia anderstand that users will need portrait mode for those apps. There is always a moment that you can't use it in landscape, there is always one moment that portrait is the only issue, a moment that without it you can't use your mobile and that would be a pity to not have it on a such a great device.

Nokia, are you listening ?

[sachin007]

My guess is that one of the reasons for the postponing the release date may have something to do with the implementation of portrait mode..... what say?

[timsamoff]

All camera apps.
I don't get this... The Images app (how you view images) can be in landscape and portrait. But the camera?

If you want to take a photo in portrait, you hold the device in portrait -- just like a regular camera. If the camera had to switch to portrait mode, you'd still be taking your photo in landscape (because the view would rotate), but it'd be shrunk to fit in the portrait view.

Or, am I missing something?

Tim

[tangs]

My guess is that one of the reasons for the postponing the release date may have something to do with the implementation of portrait mode..... what say?

I hope so much ! :)

[attila77]

Well, i think that all those apps should be available in portrait.

Please try reading the poll question and first message more carefully. The question is priority as obviously they have to work on them in SOME order. The alternative is to receive none of them until they are all ready, which I don't think is really what any portrait mode proponent wants.

Nokia, are you listening ?

This thread is a direct result of Nokia folks inquiring about priorities (http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=324408&postcount=259), so, they are listening.

Thus, in this thread, the question is not what Nokia can do for you, but what you can do for Nokia. Which would be filling out the poll. :)

[johnkzin]

My guess is that one of the reasons for the postponing the release date may have something to do with the implementation of portrait mode..... what say?

It was postponed? (deep in project, haven't been reading news stuff this week)

[Jack6428]

It was postponed? (deep in project, haven't been reading news stuff this week)

i second that lol...

[daperl]

I don't get this... The Images app (how you view images) can be in landscape and portrait. But the camera?

If you want to take a photo in portrait, you hold the device in portrait -- just like a regular camera. If the camera had to switch to portrait mode, you'd still be taking your photo in landscape (because the view would rotate), but it'd be shrunk to fit in the portrait view.

Or, am I missing something?

Tim

You're right, I think we're mostly good if the app is dumb: When in portrait mode I'm framing a portrait. But I need buttons at the bottom of the screen: Zoom and shutter, and a quick menu or overlay button for other functions. It's all about comfortable, one-handed opperation, and I can see myself writing my own photo and video app if I don't get this. But I'd really rather not.

[timsamoff]

You're right, I think we're mostly good if the app is dumb: When in portrait mode I'm framing a portrait. But I need buttons at the bottom of the screen: Zoom and shutter, and a quick menu or overlay button for other functions. It's all about comfortable, one-handed opperation, and I can see myself writing my own photo and video app if I don't get this. But I'd really rather not.
These are all handled by hardware buttons... Just like any digital camera.

Tim

[daperl]

These are all handled by hardware buttons... Just like any digital camera.

Tim

Yeah, but how many of those cameras are running an open, rooted GNU/Linux? If I find some extra free time, I might have to dust off and spruce up a PyGTK GStreamer app to show you what can be done with just an n8x0. And actually, we have qole to thank for blazing and sharing some of the early GStreamer A/V tablet trails.

It's soon to be the second generation of digital Burger King, baby: Have It Even More Your Way.

[qole]

I am very excited by the possibilities of the new camera. I did some quick gstreamer pipeline tests and seriously, It is no harder to use the high quality camera on the N900 than it was to use the N8x0 camera. It should be even better now, as there seems to be a much wider range of sinks etc...

I'm looking forward to some seriously whiz-bang community apps using the camera. Now I know daperl will be writing one ;)

[daperl]

Cool! Did you create a video with synced audio?

[daperl]

qole, try this n800 script on the n900.

#! /usr/bin/env python

import gtk
import gst

class ShowMe:
def __init__(self):
window = gtk.Window(gtk.WINDOW_TOPLEVEL)
window.set_title("Webcam-Viewer")
window.connect("destroy", gtk.main_quit, "WM destroy")
vbox = gtk.VBox()
window.add(vbox)
self.movie_window = gtk.DrawingArea()
vbox.add(self.movie_window)
hbox = gtk.HBox()
vbox.pack_start(hbox, False)
hbox.set_border_width(10)
hbox.pack_start(gtk.Label())
self.button = gtk.Button("Start")
self.button.connect("clicked", self.start_stop)
hbox.pack_start(self.button, False)
self.button2 = gtk.Button("Quit")
self.button2.connect("clicked", self.exit)
hbox.pack_start(self.button2, False)
hbox.add(gtk.Label())
window.show_all()

# Set up the gstreamer pipeline
self.player = gst.parse_launch ('gconfv4l2src ! video/x-raw-yuv,width=320,height=240,framerate=(fraction)15/1 ! autovideosink')

bus = self.player.get_bus()
bus.add_signal_watch()
bus.enable_sync_message_emission()
bus.connect("message", self.on_message)
bus.connect("sync-message::element", self.on_sync_message)

def start_stop(self, w):
if self.button.get_label() == "Start":
self.button.set_label("Stop")
self.player.set_state(gst.STATE_PLAYING)
else:
self.player.set_state(gst.STATE_NULL)
self.button.set_label("Start")

def exit(self, widget, data=None):
gtk.main_quit()

def on_message(self, bus, message):
t = message.type
if t == gst.MESSAGE_EOS:
self.player.set_state(gst.STATE_NULL)
self.button.set_label("Start")
elif t == gst.MESSAGE_ERROR:
err, debug = message.parse_error()
print "Error: %s" % err, debug
self.player.set_state(gst.STATE_NULL)
self.button.set_label("Start")

def on_sync_message(self, bus, message):
if message.structure is None:
return
message_name = message.structure.get_name()
if message_name == "prepare-xwindow-id":
# Assign the viewport
imagesink = message.src
imagesink.set_property("force-aspect-ratio", True)
imagesink.set_xwindow_id(self.movie_window.window. xid)

if __name__ == "__main__":
gtk.gdk.threads_init()
ShowMe()
gtk.main()

[qole]

Hi daperl,

The source in the pipeline is wrong for the new camera(s). We should continue this in another thread (http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=326838#post326838) or via e-mail.

[linuxeventually]

I just sorta had a thought. Does anyone what EXIF data the cameras seem to support?

I ask because I am wondering if portrait orientation (http://www.impulseadventure.com/photo/exif-orientation.html) EXIF data is out of the question.

The accelerometer determines if it is held in as portrait/horizontal (0 or 1) and writes this to the EXIF properties, and then an image viewer could recognize this and rotate it as needed/desired.

Additionally I think this feature, should it exist, should be enable/disable optional as I can see it annoying certain people.

[pelago]

I'm pretty sure I've read or seen in a video that the camera and built-in image viewer already does that.

[attila77]

GPS data is also embedded in EXIF, the rest is pretty run-of-the-mill.

[christexaport]

I just sorta had a thought. Does anyone what EXIF data the cameras seem to support?

I ask because I am wondering if portrait orientation (http://www.impulseadventure.com/photo/exif-orientation.html) EXIF data is out of the question.

The accelerometer determines if it is held in as portrait/horizontal (0 or 1) and writes this to the EXIF properties, and then an image viewer could recognize this and rotate it as needed/desired.

Additionally I think this feature, should it exist, should be enable/disable optional as I can see it annoying certain people.

Portrait data is in the EXIF. That's the biggest reason for the accelerometer, to know whether to rotate a captured image for portrait or normal mode.

[christexaport]

I don't get this... The Images app (how you view images) can be in landscape and portrait. But the camera?

If you want to take a photo in portrait, you hold the device in portrait -- just like a regular camera. If the camera had to switch to portrait mode, you'd still be taking your photo in landscape (because the view would rotate), but it'd be shrunk to fit in the portrait view.

Or, am I missing something?

Tim

The images app doesn't autorotate, just the individual images when viewed in full screen. At least that is how it looks on the videos...

I wish Nokia ported features from the Photo Browser app from S60 5th to Maemo 5. That's what type of gallery glamour I like.

[younker]

At least, I think portrait mode is very useful when you just want to read something, for example a word document, and webpage, a text file, etc.

So please change some base part to allow every application use portrait mode freely.

[qgil]

Hi, polls are nice but if you *really* want to influence directly the support for portrait mode in the Maemo releases and actually help making it happen you could better invest your energies in the Brainstorm.

Enhancements go to Brainstorm.

There are 3 entries related to portrait mode but none of them has solutions proposed that people can vote:

Implement portrait mode in Fremantle Media Player (audio) (http://maemo.org/community/brainstorm/view/implement_portrait_mode_in_fremantle_media_player-audio/)

Implement portrait mode for Fremantle Messaging (http://maemo.org/community/brainstorm/view/implement_portrait_mode_for_fremantle_messaging/)

Implement portrait mode in Fremantle Maps (http://maemo.org/community/brainstorm/view/implement_portrait_mode_in_fremantle_maps/)

Note that the browser has been mentioned it here as a primary case but there is no brainstorm proposal related to it.

fwiw we are dragging the attention of tghe related product managers. The Brainstorm ideas are still empty and this thread is approaching 500 posts. I have no idea anymore whether there are good proposals for solutions in this looong thread that could be summarized and voted in the Brainstorm.

By now I can only tell to them "the community would like to have more support for portrait mode". Which is not bad, but after all this discussion...

Thank you!

[frals]

Hi, polls are nice but if you *really* want to influence directly the support for portrait mode in the Maemo releases and actually help making it happen you could better invest your energies in the Brainstorm.



fwiw we are dragging the attention of tghe related product managers. The Brainstorm ideas are still empty and this thread is approaching 500 posts. I have no idea anymore whether there are good proposals for solutions in this looong thread that could be summarized and voted in the Brainstorm.

By now I can only tell to them "the community would like to have more support for portrait mode". Which is not bad, but after all this discussion...

Thank you!


Don't forget this http://maemo.org/community/brainstorm/view/portrait_mode_input ! Shameless promote ;)

[christexaport]

THIS BRAINSTORM (http://maemo.org/community/brainstorm/view/add_universal_support_for_asr-automatic_screen_rotation-throughout_the_ui-002/?solution=create_a_new_mechanism_to_open_the_telep hone_app) is about automatic screen rotation FOR THE ENTIRE UI if anyone wants to give some input. I'm doing it along right now...

[Jason404]

I don't know if anybody has mentioned this, but I would really like to see a portrait mode dictaphone app that is very quick and easy to access. I often have random thoughts that I like to make not of.

[Jason404]

I just sorta had a thought. Does anyone what EXIF data the cameras seem to support?

I ask because I am wondering if portrait orientation (http://www.impulseadventure.com/photo/exif-orientation.html) EXIF data is out of the question.

The accelerometer determines if it is held in as portrait/horizontal (0 or 1) and writes this to the EXIF properties, and then an image viewer could recognize this and rotate it as needed/desired.

Additionally I think this feature, should it exist, should be enable/disable optional as I can see it annoying certain people.

I do not know how the camera works in the N900, but having a jpeg image rotated automatically from EXIF data is not as simple as that, as far as I understand, because of how jpeg compression works.

For example, even in Photoshop, if you rotate a jpeg, you incur quality loss, as Photoshop is not capable of lossless rotation of jpegs.*

So I think the camera app will have to be able to jpeg compress the image in portrait/landscape mode at that moment, depending on what the accelerometer is telling it, if image quality is to be kept as well as it could be.

* - actually, I am not sure if this is still the case, as I am in the habit of converting images to a lossless format before working on them.

[attila77]

That JPEG thingie is a different story altogether - you can't SAVE a jpeg with rotated *pixels* without quality loss (or file size increase). EXIF is a different story altogether. The cam should always save the image as recorded. the EXIF based rotation should be *on screen only*, e.g. when the jpeg has been decompressed, which is not an issue for viewers. Yeah, I know, it's more convenient to set the orientation flag to zero and just rotate the pic, but it's a Bad Thing.

[lma]

you can't SAVE a jpeg with rotated *pixels* without quality loss (or file size increase).

jpegtran (http://linux.die.net/man/1/jpegtran) is your friend :-)

Edit: come to think of it, the data coming from the camera should be raw pixels, right? So until you save (thereby turning it into a JPEG and losing information) it you should be able to apply all sorts of transformations losslessly.

At the risk of going totally off-topic, does the camera application support any lossless file formats?