well respected reviewer "eldar" throwing caution to N900

[GeneralAntilles]

lol. we always see most active members. So i see them and other peoples as well saw it.

Actually, you didn't see many of the major contributors to this community involved in this thread at all (perhaps because of the general lack of rationality and logic here, both from many of the other people involved and yourself). But clearly you've come to your decision and there's little point in discussion it further.

[fms]

lol. we always see most active members. So i see them and other peoples as well saw it.
Ehehe, making assumptions again, ain't we? And the funny thing is that you can easily find the most active members of the Maemo community from the maemo.org site, you just have to know where to look. It is not hidden in any way, not a business secret or anything. But please, do continue searching for Maemo Devices employees on Twitter, maybe even analyze their food ingestion patterns, I am sure this will come useful sometime.

[allnameswereout]

Just walk away... walk away...

Roy: Moss?
Moss: Uh?
Roy: Did you use a soldering-iron to make that stress-machine?
Moss: Yes.
Roy: You turned it off?
Moss: Oh, I'm fairly sure I did.
Roy: Because, you remember what happened last time, right?
Moss: Yes, that was very funny.
Roy: Well, no. It was very dangerous and someone nearly died.
Moss: Right, no, yep. I was thinking of a different incident. The one on the golfcourse.
Roy: What? I'm talking about the FIRE!
Moss: Oh, yeah, fire. Sorry, I always get mixed up between golf and fire.
Roy: Just make sure it's off.
Moss: It's off. I think.
Roy: Just make sure it is.
Moss: I will make sure it is.
Roy: And if it's already off...
Moss: [pause] I'll just walk away.
Moss: Will he get off my back, what is he? The soldering-iron police?
Moss: It's off. That means I turn it on. And just walk away.

:D

[Soulfarmer]

On another note, I would love to sit down to some good vodka with you and swap stories. Finlandia, right? ;)

If I was in Russia, I would definately not drink Finlandia, I would rather have Stolichnaya. Finlandia might be "ok" here in Finland, but still... :)

[daperl]

ARJWright
I got the lesson as well :) Maemo community isnt mature and do not ready to go out of the sandbox. Sad, really sad. Because without strong community I do not believe in any success of Maemo in real world.

I'm not that into phones, so you'll have to pardon me if I don't know the industry that well. But don't you think Nokia is doing something unique and fresh here? They've been doing this handheld open source computer experiment, and they're now trying to move it into the mainstream. They aren't taking phones and making them into computers, they're taking computers and making them into phones. The origin of this community is in OSS handheld GNU/Linux computers. Not phones. No Symbian to be found here. But this next step is the big one, and it's looking to be the most painful.

We get that the n900 won't be ready for mainstream primetime. But it's a process, and we're not going anywhere. We know what we have here. Good luck to you.

[Texrat]

If I was in Russia, I would definately not drink Finlandia, I would rather have Stolichnaya. Finlandia might be "ok" here in Finland, but still... :)

I was kidding him. ;)

[Jack6428]

If I was in Russia, I would definately not drink Finlandia, I would rather have Stolichnaya. Finlandia might be "ok" here in Finland, but still... :)

Absinthe is best ! :D

[Soulfarmer]

I was kidding him. ;)

Even still! :)

[UCOMM]

Absinthe is best ! :D


finlandia redberry ftw!

[Soulfarmer]

Oops, sorry, didn't meant to compare best drinks :)
Back to the track please? (Redberry is my favorite Ed tho;) )

[allnameswereout]

RAKIA
World wide!

[Laughing Man]

Err the most active are just whoever posts the most. To conclude that the entire maemo community is like that would be a false conclusion. Like claiming all Apple users are snobby cause the most vocal of them are snobish.

[Bratag]

Texrat
im not drink vodka at all :)

About other things I'm not going to read Maemo Talk very often. Didnt find any usefull, up-to-date information at all. Just rumours, moanings etc. Not in that thread, in whole forum. I have better sources of info, and could to look inside some things. So dont w8 my reply here.

With that kind of friendly and humble attitude its no wonder you were an instant hit with the other members of the community. Fortunately we were unable to find any up to date info on your site either (STILL NO WORD ON WHAT FIRMWARE LEVEL) so luckily we have the option of ignoring your little blip on the internet as well.
Good luck with all that new tech. I am personally playing right now with the 2015 iphone 5gs which features power steering and 4 wheel disc brakes.

In the immortal words of bugs bunny "What a maroon"

[Texrat]

I would hope that lessons are learned frfm this thread merly it being forgotten when its locked. To delete this thread would too be self-defeating.

The lessons for sociologists are plain as day in this thread towards communities, online interactions, and spoken/unspoken rules of engagement and judgement. For me, this has been quite insightful.

I thought long and hard before replying.

Respect and engagement are 2-way streets.

[ARJWright]

ARJWright
I got the lesson as well :) Maemo community isnt mature and do not ready to go out of the sandbox. Sad, really sad. Because without strong community I do not believe in any success of Maemo in real world.

So my estimations about sales of next devices was corrected due to this (and also marketing is sociology of net nowadays :) Do not believe that a lot of people here understand what I mean exactly, but in any way, it was usefull for me :)

Eldar (if you are here and still listening);
I would not go as far to say that this group/site/platform isn't ready for a bigger slice of personalities to be a part of things here. As you probably know from your site(s) and the writings of tons of others in tech and other fields who have built life from something grassroots, its easier to dismiss things when we don't see similar seeds of success that we've seen in other areas. Reingold and others have postulated on this for at least a few decades now, and their lessons while observable and in play here, do endear themselves to not become expectations of future success. If you will, Maemo is only seen in life to this point - even in you seeing more behind the scenes with this platform and others - this group deserves the respect and expectations ot see things through.

Those estimations of sales and devices that you are collecting; I hope to get to read those (at Mobile Read or elsewhere). Because again, while you have a slice of the picture, there's more to come.

I don't know if its your position to come in and correct views here; but I am willing to say that you are responsible for dissemenating the kind of information that this (and other mobile communities that you interact with online and off) can use to grow from and hopefully change their future. SE has taken many of your words to heart - and even according to your own writings has changed things towards the better. Nokia/Maemo deserves the same.

I thought long and hard before replying.

Respect and engagement are 2-way streets.

YES! Amen, and every other statement that a Sunday can offer you in agreeance.

I need to get to TX; between you, RCadden, and a few others, I would like to really sit longer on these subjects.

You're really inferring that about the tens of thousands of members of the Maemo Community based on a dozen or so posters in this particular thread?

No; I made that statement both directly for this thread and for the forum as a whole. There's a whole lot to be learned about how connected, developer-minded communities create, exist, grow, and die just from Maemo. Lots of the movements that have happened over the past years come from those lessons. From a person who studies this area more than he posts here and everywhere else, I hope for the lessons to be learned rather than for the legacy to be forgotten.

[mrojas]

It can be said that one gets the welcome one earns.

It also can be said that a host has a duty to treat well a guest, regardless of the manners of said guest.

And ideally, everyone would strive to improve.

Sadly, we don't live in an ideal world.

[YoDude]

It can be said that one gets the welcome one earns.

It also can be said that a host has a duty to treat well a guest, regardless of the manners of said guest.

And ideally, everyone would strive to improve.

Sadly, we don't live in an ideal world.

It is sad but true...We never will live in an ideal world but that shouldn't stop us from acting, or at least trying to act civilized and polite. :(

What I do agree with is that Nokia has taken one hell of a risk in making this community the face of Maemo...
The targeted market for this device is many times the size of this community and a good percentage of those potential customers will get their first impression of Maemo from us.

At the same time Nokia has placed one hell of a burden on this community by positioning the N900 as the flagship or lead device in their lineup (if not by design at least by price).

Some will buy this thing just because of its expense. They want the best and they want everyone to know they have the best (or at least the most expensive), whether they need it or not. Unfortunately this segment of the market is sometimes the least technically savvy and the most vocal. They don't know how it works but it better work NOW. If it doesn't work the way they expected it to, they will be the most demanding and require the most attention.

I have faith we will live up to the expectations of the first group. Most of us can relate to polite curiosity. It is what brought us here in the first place.
The second group however, might take a toll. In that event I hope Nokia will provide additional support.

[Laughing Man]

If that really is the case I really think there should be a newbie forum then. =P

Otherwise you might just get people responding, "use the search engine"

[ossipena]

finlandia redberry ftw!

kossumaito!!!
(vodka milk)

my favourite ;)

[bugelrex]

Hate to dig this thread back up again, but on Oct 1st if I'm reading this correctly, Eldar claims to have final commercial units of n900.

If indeed he used to be an "Analyst for mobile research", it wouldn't be surprising as these guys can drop/boost your stock depending on what they write and also the deciding factor if your company can raise 100's of millions of dollars "IF" they worked from a large investment firm. Basically first name terms with the CEO.

http://twitter.com/eldarmurtazin

# @swestar have final samples (commercial) of n900, will write review about them may be. X6 without CWM only 16 Gb
10:47 PM Oct 1st from web in reply to swestar

[spinnukur]

Hate to dig this thread back up again, but on Oct 1st if I'm reading this correctly, Eldar claims to have final commercial units of n900.

If indeed he used to be an "Analyst for mobile research", it wouldn't be surprising as these guys can drop/boost your stock depending on what they write and also the deciding factor if your company can raise 100's of millions of dollars "IF" they worked from a large investment firm. Basically first name terms with the CEO.

http://twitter.com/eldarmurtazin

# @swestar have final samples (commercial) of n900, will write review about them may be. X6 without CWM only 16 Gb
10:47 PM Oct 1st from web in reply to swestar


Wait, what...final models have only 16GB built in????

[pelago]

Wait, what...final models have only 16GB built in????
I think that's referring to the Nokia X6.

[spinnukur]

Just looked on Nokia USA under specs for the N900, and I know for a fact it used to say "32GB Internal Storage" now it say's "Up to 32GB Internal Storage". Is Nokia just completely screwing this phone up? They made allot of hipe over this thing, I'll be really disappointed if they totally screw over the specs...and will consider cancelling my order.

[pelago]

Hopefully this is just become some of it is used for swap, or something like that.

[Jack6428]

How can anyone still take Eldar seriously when he has been acting like a clown about the N900 the whole time? Just ignore the guy, atleast i will, when he comes up again, this time with a magical N920 or whatever, claiming random BS.

[bbns]

Just looked on Nokia USA under specs for the N900, and I know for a fact it used to say "32GB Internal Storage" now it say's "Up to 32GB Internal Storage". Is Nokia just completely screwing this phone up? They made allot of hipe over this thing, I'll be really disappointed if they totally screw over the specs...and will consider cancelling my order.

Stop the worrisome, you will have "plenty" of space to use. Peter already confirmed this.

By the way, Nokia did not make lot of hype on this phone. Instead, they keep it very low profile.

[sachin007]

Eldar just wants attention. Period!

[toratoko]

I actually prefer it this way since they need some space for the OS and the pre-installed widgets and software. They're not lying to us like other phone companies do when we order 16gb products and only get to use 14.6 of it.

Just looked on Nokia USA under specs for the N900, and I know for a fact it used to say "32GB Internal Storage" now it say's "Up to 32GB Internal Storage".

[somedude]

wow this page is still active. what happened to the 500 post and it will burst.

[spinnukur]

Stop the worrisome, you will have "plenty" of space to use. Peter already confirmed this.

By the way, Nokia did not make lot of hype on this phone. Instead, they keep it very low profile.

For keeping it such a low profile, allot of buzz sure did happen via phonescoop, engadget, cnet, gizmodo, probably the foremost sites for technology gurus as well as the videos we saw on youtube before Nokia had even confirmed they had the N900. When any of the aforementioned sites imo releases a review on a phone, thats kind of hard to take that is a 'low profile' on Nokia's part. Just saying is all.

[bbns]

For keeping it such a low profile, allot of buzz sure did happen via phonescoop, engadget, cnet, gizmodo, probably the foremost sites for technology gurus as well as the videos we saw on youtube before Nokia had even confirmed they had the N900. When any of the aforementioned sites imo releases a review on a phone, thats kind of hard to take that is a 'low profile' on Nokia's part. Just saying is all.

Don't get me wrong. None of them officially represents Nokia. I am sure people actually do Maemo marketing will laugh. By the way, I did not see any hype from Engadget. They still used their irony tone bashing as much as could.

Also most of demo videos are coming from some voluntarily developers, such as lcuk for onedotzero (really awesome one!). Or some previewers, whether their channel to get the device from.

There is only one official maemo handon video is taken by qguil, unless I missed something.

Man, I should post something more meaningful but I could not stand these WOMs blind the truth.

[spinnukur]

Don't get me wrong. None of them officially represents Nokia. I am sure people actually do Maemo marketing will laugh. By the way, I did not see any hype from Engadget. They still used their irony tone bashing as much as could.

Also most of demo videos are coming from some voluntarily developers, such as lcuk for onedotzero (really awesome one!). Or some previewers, whether their channel to get the device from.

There is only one official maemo handon video is taken by qguil, unless I missed something.

Man, I should post something more meaningful but I could not stand these WOMs blind the truth.

Doesn't really matter if it's an official or unofficial video, any person will know, that releasing any kind of video that hints or shows proof of a built product by a company that know's people will want in itself, is enough to create hype within the phone industry. If a company truly wants to keep something a secret, they don't have there marketing and/or PR department create anything at all that will reveal it's existence nor do they leak or hint of it's existence.

True, engadget does have their usual monochromatic tone that they have, but still when a website as savy as engadget carry's a story on it, it peaks our interest and starts us to investigate if it really does or doesn't exist.

I just want my damn N900...

[allnameswereout]

Just looked on Nokia USA under specs for the N900, and I know for a fact it used to say "32GB Internal Storage" now it say's "Up to 32GB Internal Storage". Is Nokia just completely screwing this phone up? They made allot of hipe over this thing, I'll be really disappointed if they totally screw over the specs...and will consider cancelling my order.Yes, it provides 'up to 32 GB' because for example 1 GB is used in home dir and to save program data and such.

[thunderstruck]

Sounds like a case of lawyers rewriting specs. Kind of like hard drives, where a gig is not really a gig.

[Laughing Man]

That's more how the OS makers vs. hard drive makers decided how to quantify memory. I think it was 10^2 vs 10 something. But in this case it's more in reality the device comes with 32 GB space but some of it is taken up by the OS, then some by swap, then some by this and that. But if you were to combine it all, it would be 32 GB. Like how my Sony VAIO said it came with 160 GBs but it was split between a 8-10 GB Vista recovery partition, and the rest Vista (though now I gave most of the space to Ubuntu)

[pycage]

Sounds like a case of lawyers rewriting specs. Kind of like hard drives, where a gig is not really a gig.

Actually, the hardware manufacturers are right, as the unit Giga means 1,000,000,000. So a Gigabyte is correctly 1,000,000,000 bytes.
In the software world 1 Gigabyte used to be 1024 x 1024 x 1024 bytes, but now this unit is officially called GiB (Gibibyte) to avoid confusion. :)
Of course I have never heard anybody say "Gibibyte". It would sound too funny! :D

[texaslabrat]

Actually, the hardware manufacturers are right, as the unit Giga means 1,000,000,000. So a Gigabyte is correctly 1,000,000,000 bytes.
In the software world 1 Gigabyte used to be 1024 x 1024 x 1024 bytes, but now this unit is officially called GiB (Gibibyte) to avoid confusion. :)
Of course I have never heard anybody say "Gibibyte". It would sound too funny! :D

Well, the hardware manufacturers are right *now* after the "kibi/mebi/gibi" thing was manufactured by the IEEE following the hard-drive vendors being sued for false advertising. Nothing like changing the rules mid-stream to win the argument LOL.

From a pure metric point of view...the "new" system makes more sense from a general perspective though there is a *lot* of computer industry momentum in the old "kilo=1024" mindset that will probably take a generation of old farts (relatively speaking) like me to retire in order to finally put to rest.

[thunderstruck]

1024 is a more logical unit of measurement, I guess I'm an old fart too then. There are 10 kinds of people in this world, those that understand binary and those that don't.

[fnordianslip]

I think it's all about dumbing down. Perhaps we should have 10-bit bytes too, although the Americans would probably want 12 ;-)

[Texrat]

There isn't really a "misleading memory size" conspiracy here. As some have noted, the numbers are due to various factors primarily the difference between decimal/binary combined with marketing guys not understanding the technical stuff.

Typical users neither know of this nor care.

[volt]

In fear of getting this thread back topic briefly and then see it go back to personal attacks, I would still like to point out this...

The original thread starter had noticed what Eldar Murtazin said about the N900, regarding the Prod. Rel. firmware, stability etc. I believe that at some point in this discussion both the PR firmware and whatever Eldar had was called final.

I hope - as we all do - that the firmware in box will be without major issues because we all know that the success of such a product may just be decided the first two weeks by the reviews/feedback. Which means the release firmware will be important.

Either way, there is an update from Eldar now. Apparently he has updated his firmware again.

"40-12 are really faster than previous one, N900 working better with this FW, not the final one, the same problems with browser, player"

Apparently, as should be expected, the firmware seems to be improving.

So, whatever caution the previewer has thrown to the N900, should now be somewhat reduced.

I know these twits are too short and random to analyse, but still, I thought it was worth adding to this thread, as it is highly relevant to the issues brought up in the original post. Eldar is experiencing firmware improvements and the phone is not in stores yet.

I feel like I'm apologizing for writing this update in a "hated" thread, but as I see it, discussing what people think about the N900 firmware is highly relevant. ;)

[thunderstruck]

A lot depends on how much people investigate a product. I never make a decision based on one reviewers writings, and I hope the rest of the world would too. If one person says it sucks and everyone else says it's great, I assume the one guy just has an axe to grind, rather than the product being at fault.
And things do improve-I have a G1, so I can vouch for that. If I was running the original FW on my phone, I'd have a negative review of it.

[volt]

So far, there's not that many (p)reviews to judge this thingie on. Can't really say either of the two reviewers I've read this far can be considered completely objective. We'll have more reviews within the month. This far we only have the words of some privileged people to judge by. Soon we'll have regular users. But, I just can't wait :D

[Bratag]

Thats right. What an attention seeking tart he is. I am shocked that he's considered highly 'respected'. Someone is using the wrong dictionary for sure.

:confused:

Whooo back to the personal attacks. Was getting worried there :)