N900 Not the perfect phone?...apparently not

[lefteyecc]

Hey guys I found a pretty cool article written just today regarding one user's experience with the N900. You can can find it here http://www.unwiredview.com/2009/10/15/nokia-n900-review-pt2-first-impressions-6-things-i-hate-about-n900/

Pretty interesting especially considering he's still using a pre-release device, and apparently not the final model.

[ovjo12]

I got my N900 at Maemo Summit and I must say I am extremely satisfy with the phone, I compare it with my old Nokia E75. Of course there are things to improve, but I love my N900.

[ciaomatteo]

3. Small icons with big “Close” fields in ‘Desktop setup” mode.

Isn't that what the stylus is helpful for... for precision?

4. Not enough desktop panels, or space on them.

It'd be nice to add more.. but yesh.. I think having for is a huge upgrade from say the limiting # of widgets you can put on the N97 or any other phone with a similar setup.

6. Which brings us the problem of general lack of apps for the device.

Yeah... until we all get them in our hands to develop with. :)

[attila77]

Just a few notes:

1. Portrait mode. Yes. Drink !

2. Mixed emotions. Desktops don't do this either. Showing passwords can be fun when you have video-out enabled :)

3. Never was a problem for me. There seems to be some heuristics going on, so you just aim for the lower left corner to drag and you'll be ok

4. Usage pattern. Whether you run into this problem depends of how use stuff. If you activate every possible widget and put dozens of contacts on the desktop, then yes, that's what you get (I wonder what he was doing on the N8x0s ?). Even more desktops are a limited solution as already I do a lot of flipping until I find the one which I'm looking for :)

5. Wait for Maemo Mapper/next Ovi version/etc

6. Complaining about lack of software for a unit that is not available to the general public and is known to be primarily supported by independent developers is kind of silly (seriously, dude...). Also, official Qt won't help symbian applications to get to Maemo as there IS NO significant amount of symbian Qt apps at this point.

[lefteyecc]

Isn't that what the stylus is helpful for... for precision?

True true but when using the device as a smartphone I would say I must agree with him...in terms of usability.

One other thing I agree with is the portrait mode...however int he end I still KNOW that he doesn't have the final release software or the final release hardware. But it is still interesting to know all of this or the device we are all obsessing over, not that that's a bad thing obsession is good.

[r0eladn]

no clock on stand-by screen -1
no missed calls/sms on standby screen -1
unlocking button on the wrong place -1
no google maps/ovi 3.0 -1

rest = nagging/impatience

won't maps.google.com work in internet browser?

[UCOMM]

the author doesnt seem to be very bright

[SubCore]

"Fortunately, Nokia N900 provides a possibility to lock the handset after certain amount of time. And it works pretty well.
Except for one thing. When you want to check what’s happening on N900 after it’s locked, all you get is the screen with a keypad to enter the unlock code."

so he wants his device to be securely locked when it gets stolen, and then complains he can't look at the time quickly? somehow this strikes me as odd... :)

the reviewer doesn't make it clear whether there are 2 "locked" states - keylock and device lock. in the former you can quickly look at the time the same way you'd do it with any other phone, the latter isn't supposed to be a quick way.
though i don't have a device yet... can anyone confirm that there are 2 distinct types of device-locking?


also, that site has WAY too many ads on it. i mean, 3x google ads right next to each other before the article even starts? come on...

[ciaomatteo]

True true but when using the device as a smartphone I would say I must agree with him...in terms of usability.

One other thing I agree with is the portrait mode...however int he end I still KNOW that he doesn't have the final release software or the final release hardware. But it is still interesting to know all of this or the device we are all obsessing over, not that that's a bad thing obsession is good.

lol remember it's a mobile computer to Nokia and a phone second. :cool:

There are plenty of other smartphones that have a stylus I don't think this is any different other than that you got such a dynamic environment to use. So excited! It definitely is a difficult task to satisfy everyone which is why I think this is where the stylus is a helpful aid and quick solution (because it's been done before) without delving to far into it. Now... they could offer an option to resize icons... or they can spend some time thinking about less precise ways of manipulating icon positions for the degree of imprecision that MIGHT be there because I don't think a lot of people will want to spend time thinking about which part of their finger touches the screen first to trigger a click/touch.

Take the iPhone/iPod Touch for instance. Pretty hard to be precise sometimes. Worse yet, no stylus for the times you want to be really precise. So they spent a lot of brain cycles thinking of an intuitive way to move icons on their screen by having no (x) to mistakenly press. :D


Originally Posted by SubCore View Post

"Fortunately, Nokia N900 provides a possibility to lock the handset after certain amount of time. And it works pretty well.
Except for one thing. When you want to check what’s happening on N900 after it’s locked, all you get is the screen with a keypad to enter the unlock code."

so he wants his device to be securely locked when it gets stolen, and then complains he can't look at the time quickly? somehow this strikes me as odd...

the reviewer doesn't make it clear whether there are 2 "locked" states - keylock and device lock. in the former you can quickly look at the time the same way you'd do it with any other phone, the latter isn't supposed to be a quick way.
though i don't have a device yet... can anyone confirm that there are 2 distinct types of device-locking?


also, that site has WAY too many ads on it. i mean, 3x google ads right next to each other before the article even starts? come on...

lol he likes to stir up some subjective and controversial points so that he can get more views so that he can get more ad views so that he can earn a revenue on the plethora of ads he has on the site.

Let's just ignore this article and move on. lol jk...

[lefteyecc]

Well yes ciao you are right that it is a mobile computer first.

Please remember I honestly doubt we could really take this as a "review". The final device is not out yet. We can just take from his experience and add it to our knowledge to see what else we can expect from this device. Isn't that what we want?

Also the final device is not that far away correct?

[ysss]

@ciaomatteo:

http://www.iphoneappratings.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/iphone_move_icons.jpg

[ciaomatteo]

lefteyecc, of course, of course. I'm not being mean about it and by no means are they personal attacks or points to you. I'm just commenting on how some of the reviewers points are a little subjective or misguided. I figure if he is allowed to comment about it I can comment about it too. :D

@ciaomatteo:

http://www.iphoneappratings.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/iphone_move_icons.jpg

Okay, okay unless you haven't upgraded. :P

But they did implement it nevertheless! lol

I've got ?3.1? on my iPod Touch right now.

http://video.google.com/videosearch?hl=en&q=iphone+move+icons&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=c0TXSs2kD4yKMa7dscwI&sa=X&oi=video_result_group&ct=title&resnum=4&ved=0CB4QqwQwAw#

[ysss]

@ciaomatteo: seriously? it's been like that since 1.0 and i'm now on 3.1.2...

[slate8]

Here is a similar article from UMPC Portal http://www.umpcportal.com/2009/10/the-6-things-i-dont-like-about-the-nokia-n900/

[Bratag]

Alrighty

1) Landscape only - Meh, If I had wanted a phone that operates entirely in portrait I wouldnt have bothered with one with a keyboard. That being said there is nothing stopping devs making all their apps portrait.

2) Password not showing - Annoying but not a deal breaker. Either get down easy debian and use full firefox, or learn to type. Either way I am sure if enough people complain it will be an easy fix - or may have been fixed already. Fennec is an option as well

3/4) Icon size - I guess finger size can be an issue. Least with the resistive screen your accuracy of press will be spot on. More desktops I guess would be nice But I find myself not using the 5 I have in my g1 - sure I have stuff on them - but I never look at it.

5) Maps - ok give you this one.

6) Lack of apps - ermm the device isnt even out man - and in the past few days I have seen a steady flow of new apps coming in the extras area. Hey what about that awesome iphone app store when the iphone was release .... oooooh yeah thats right. They didnt get one for more than 12 months.

[ciaomatteo]

@ciaomatteo: seriously? it's been like that since 1.0 and i'm now on 3.1.2...

Wow... yours doesn't look like the video? Mine does. I have never seen the (x)'s on the firmware I'm on.

[ysss]

Wow... yours doesn't look like the video? Mine does. I have never seen the (x)'s on the firmware I'm on.

Um.. so how do you delete the unwanted icons?
Btw, the system\default apps don't have the x's. Only downloaded apps (and shortcuts) have the x's.

Anyways, we shouldn't OOT here..

Re: Article
Yes, I think the writer made some good points, but all of them will\can be fixed on future OS update.

[ciaomatteo]

Um.. so how do you delete the unwanted icons?
Btw, the system\default apps don't have the x's. Only downloaded apps (and shortcuts) have the x's.

Anyways, we shouldn't OOT here..

Re: Article
Yes, I think the writer made some good points, but all of them will\can be fixed on future OS update.

Shows how much I use that thing... My mistake. Maybe they should make a trash can pop up on the dash area and then you can drag it to there if you don't want it.

Anyway. Stylus helps or any other pointed object that won't scratch the screen. :D

[lefteyecc]

ciao I was actually appreciative of your comments :-) no meanness intended. I guess we all gotta remember that every user is gonna have their own view, well hopefully anyway.

[ossipena]

number 4 shows that the guy has no idea about mobile GUIs

it's all about what is reasonable. of course i'd like same amount of stuff visible as linux with 4 desktop and monitor @1600x1200.

who wants to scroll in average 3-4 times to go to right desktop? what's the point? you could do it faster by opening a piece of software from menu than scrolling to right widget with same contents.

[deapblue]

Hello everyone, I am a newguy here. looking forward to getting my N900 in my hand!
first of all, forgive my poor english

1. Almost exclusively landscape orientation. Lack of portrait mode
actually, I would like N900 fix on landscape mode. because it's a internet tablet(or small computer) "plus phone function". When you use your laptop, will you turn your computer vertically? When you use cell phone, speak to your friend, you won't look at the screen, right? besides, when I lie down on my bed and use ipod touch to survey the internet, ipod always screw the screen when I accidentally tilt it. that's makes me hard to read it. So, personally, I would like the N900 fix on landscape. and I don't have to screw my device when switch between one application to another

2. Password entry while browsing
it's the same when you use your computer. so it won't be my problem.

3. Small icons with big “Close” fields in ‘Desktop setup” mode.
agree

4. Not enough desktop panels, or space on them.
agree, more would be better.

5. Maps and Navigation.
no comment

6. Which brings us the problem of general lack of apps for the device.
Agree, I also hope we can have all the cool apps I played with on Symbian, Android, Windows Mobile and iPhone, running on Maemo. Tomorrow, please!

[bocaJ]

2. Password entry while browsing. It’s a small thing, but pretty annoying.

Usually, on a mobile device, when you press a key entering hidden symbols for a password field, the actual symbol pops up for a short while, and then is replaced with a star.

Did anyone else read this and say "My God, It's full of stars!"?

[Tintin]

True true but when using the device as a smartphone I would say I must agree with him...in terms of usability.

One other thing I agree with is the portrait mode...however int he end I still KNOW that he doesn't have the final release software or the final release hardware. But it is still interesting to know all of this or the device we are all obsessing over, not that that's a bad thing obsession is good.

Yeah, I can't figure out why they didn't use the same, and much better, screen that the iPhone have. I bet they will on the next version though.

[ysss]

Yeah, I can't figure out why they didn't use the same, and much better, screen that the iPhone have. I bet they will on the next version though.

Hey man, I'm gonna offer you this flame ******ant suit.. or these faux-<sarcasm> tags.

Take your pick..

[Tintin]

Hey man, I'm gonna offer you this flame ******ant suit.. or these faux-<sarcasm> tags.

Take your pick..

lol, yeah i'm a member of a nikon forum as well and it's funny how the very die-hard fanbois will defend the manufacturer even when there are obvious flaws in a product :)

it's a nice looking phone though. screen's a bit too small and i am not into using a stylus running down the street juggling sms/vmails and calls. got my crackberry for that.

i wonder if the n810 is the last tablet they will make or if it's all smartphones from now on. the n810 is far from perfect (horrible keyboard for once) but its such a fun device that i really like it.

[GeneralAntilles]

it's a nice looking phone though. screen's a bit too small and i am not into using a stylus running down the street juggling sms/vmails and calls. got my crackberry for that.


Who says you need to use a stylus? :)

[nymajoak]

About the screen lock and lack of clock/status summary (received messages, missed calls etc), I kind of agree. But my first thought was this: how hard would it be to make a "screensaver" application which displayed all the stuff you wanted and had a lock function built in?

I.e. The application is launched when the device wants to dim the screen. When you tap the screen an "unlock screen" appears instead, having you enter a code or a gesture.

I'm not sure about the security level of something like this but with a bit of imagination and thought I'm sure something like that wouldn't be too hard to put together..? Fwiw there was already some talk about a gesture-based unlock application in some thread a while back.

[pycage]

no clock on stand-by screen -1

Just checked it. The clock is there.


unlocking button on the wrong place -1

Hmm, I don't have a problem with that. I mostly use it for locking and usually unlock with power button & swipe.


won't maps.google.com work in internet browser?

Yes it does. You may have to activate the mouse hover mode, though.

[livefreeordie]

lol, yeah i'm a member of a nikon forum as well and it's funny how the very die-hard fanbois will defend the manufacturer even when there are obvious flaws in a product

Nothing to do with fanboyism. Both options have their pluses and minuses, but engadget & co are trying to brainwash everyone into seeing only the good sides of capacitive and only bad sides of resistive.

Resistive is much more comfortable to use if you like using your nails instead of your whole finger. The nail is more accurate, doesn't obscure the item, and on many phones you can rest your finger on the screen without triggering an action. On capacitive you have to keep your finger in the air.

Additionally, resistive offers much better accuracy for using the stylus. They're also trying to brainwash people into believing you should never have to use something so antique, but in reality there are many things that require such precision, such as spreadsheets, any more complex game, and running desktop apps either on the phone or another X11 client.

Rest assured, the base UI won't require you to use the stylus, but the OS will also give you so much more than the iPhone ever could.

And this is probably the most civilized reply to your statements you can expect to read.

[thunderstruck]

There were ads on his site? Nothing a hosts file can't block.

[Bratag]

Yeah, I can't figure out why they didn't use the same, and much better, screen that the iPhone have. I bet they will on the next version though.

Dear sir - are you on crack.

iPhone:

Size : 3.5-inch (diagonal) widescreen Multi-Touch display
Resolution: 480-by-320-pixel resolution at 163 ppi

N900:
Size: 3.5" touch display
Resolution: 800 x 480 pixels (WVGA)

There is no comparison.

Signed n900

[Tintin]

Who says you need to use a stylus? :)

You are absolutely correct - I was basing my assumption on the rather poor finger-friendly UI I've seen come out from Nokia so far. It may very well be that the N900 has a vastly improved UI that removes the need for a stylus completely. Sorry for making premature assumptions.

[qole]

I walked down the street holding an umbrella in my hand and IM chatting over Google Talk with fiferboy yesterday. Didn't need a stylus :)

Yeah, the article's author might be going for the sensationalism a bit, you think?

And don’t pay much attention to this “hate” thing. It is purely an attention grabber ;) I am only annoyed, irritated or disappointed by most of them, and none are a deal breaker that will make me like my N900 less.

[GeneralAntilles]

You are absolutely correct - I was basing my assumption on the rather poor finger-friendly UI I've seen come out from Nokia so far. It may very well be that the N900 has a vastly improved UI that removes the need for a stylus completely. Sorry for making premature assumptions.

Even on my N800 I only ever took the stylus out to play Mahjong. The N900's UI is lightyears beyond the Maemo 4 UI for finger usage.

[RogerS]

The N900's UI is lightyears beyond the Maemo 4 UI for finger usage.Have to agree with this. With emphasis:

The UI is lightyears beyond Maemo 4 for finger usage.

This is something that shouldn't be downplayed.

Roger S

[mikec]

I prefer stylus, but then I was brought up to eat with chopsticks and not my fingers (very dirty)

Mike C

[qole]

chopsticks should work, too.

[ossipena]

4. Not enough desktop panels, or space on them.
agree, more would be better.


you are ready to browse 4(+double if you forgot which order your 8 desktops are) not at all useless desktops to get where you want? what about tapping menu, folder and software. 4+ swivels vs 3 taps... hmmm.. let me think about it...

[mikec]

chopsticks should work, too.

On Xterm?:D

Mike C

[Hogwash]

Chopstick multi-touch? Now you're talkin'

[allnameswereout]

There is no perfect phone.

The Nokia N900 was never meant to be only a phone.

Those who thought Nokia N900 might be the perfect phone did not realize GSM/voice was never a primary feature for Nokia N900/Maemo 5.

If one wants a really good phone there are better alternatives than Nokia N900. Or iPhone 3GS, for that matter.

This is convergence 101. Sacrifices have to be made. Obviously, the convergence device cannot be as good as the best, high end, dedicated devices made to do one thing really well in KISS way.

Next headline: N900 not the perfect camera???

That said, this is entirely your headline. Original article didn't use it. Also, the password box is a more general problem. Because you're in public, even the key strokes can be recorded by a camera or sharp eye. To circumvent that, some kind of PKI together with password entry should be used for important authentications. Such as SSH access. Note that, whenever you are using mobile iTunes on an iPhone you experience the very same problem as described.

[Laughing Man]

I walked down the street holding an umbrella in my hand and IM chatting over Google Talk with fiferboy yesterday. Didn't need a stylus :)


One handed use in portrait mode? Hmm, can you really reach almost the entire keyboard with one hand?

[JayBomb999]

In the unwired review, he indicates that none of the widgets are scrollable. Is that true?

Edit: I received a message from staska at unwiredview.com and he reiterated that none of the widgets are vertically scrollable. That really sucks for widgets like Facebook, Mauku, RSS, AP news etc.

Is there a technical reason this or is he mistaken?

[spinnukur]

Hey guys I found a pretty cool article written just today regarding one user's experience with the N900. You can can find it here http://www.unwiredview.com/2009/10/15/nokia-n900-review-pt2-first-impressions-6-things-i-hate-about-n900/

Pretty interesting especially considering he's still using a pre-release device, and apparently not the final model.

The guy is a ****ing douchbag who obviously didn't read anything about the N900 and probably didn't get invited to the product review golf day or something...he's just butt hurt

[UCOMM]

About the screen lock and lack of clock/status summary (received messages, missed calls etc), I kind of agree. But my first thought was this: how hard would it be to make a "screensaver" application which displayed all the stuff you wanted and had a lock function built in?

I.e. The application is launched when the device wants to dim the screen. When you tap the screen an "unlock screen" appears instead, having you enter a code or a gesture.

I'm not sure about the security level of something like this but with a bit of imagination and thought I'm sure something like that wouldn't be too hard to put together..? Fwiw there was already some talk about a gesture-based unlock application in some thread a while back.


it'd be nice, but it would kill the battery like nobody's business, and if you're using the n900 like a tablet instead of a phone that means a recharge every 4 hours

[attila77]

One handed use in portrait mode? Hmm, can you really reach almost the entire keyboard with one hand?

I demoed one-hand usage with beer in the other one at the Summit, but I don't think anyone took a picture :) Anyhow, the way I do it is to have your palm *under* the unit, not on on the side. This way your thumb is front and can reach all buttons, while the other fingers provide support. I also open the kickstand and slip fingers under it so it's harder to drop the thing :)

[Legis]

If firmware will be updated to support landscape/portrait mode, does N900 has G-sensor to detect landscape/portrait mode? I could not find the related info. :confused:

[frals]

It has an accelerometer, yes

[nymajoak]

it'd be nice, but it would kill the battery like nobody's business, and if you're using the n900 like a tablet instead of a phone that means a recharge every 4 hours

You mean because of the screen being lit up? You would of course not run it with the screen at full brightness. Either you could have adjustable brightness as a setting in the app. There was a screensaver called bigclock (iirc) for s60, which was quite dark but still light enough to make out the time and status. Otherwise you could just let the screen dim, and tap to light up the app.

[franklinn]

Dear sir - are you on crack.

iPhone:

Size : 3.5-inch (diagonal) widescreen Multi-Touch display
Resolution: 480-by-320-pixel resolution at 163 ppi

N900:
Size: 3.5" touch display
Resolution: 800 x 480 pixels (WVGA)

There is no comparison.

Signed n900

Good reply but come on man there is no need to be rude :(.

[pelago]

In the unwired review, he indicates that none of the widgets are scrollable. Is that true?

Edit: I received a message from staska at unwiredview.com and he reiterated that none of the widgets are vertically scrollable. That really sucks for widgets like Facebook, Mauku, RSS, AP news etc.

Is there a technical reason this or is he mistaken?

No dragging actions are allowed on widgets. Horizontal dragging is obviously used to switch between desktops, so couldn't be allowed on widgets (as they didn't want the user to have to hunt for a blank bit of desktop). I think they disabled vertical dragging on wdigets because of possible plans to allow vertical scrolling between desktops in future Maemo releases, so didn't want widgets to start responding to vertical drags in the meantime.

[bugelrex]

Here are 2 recent poor experiences with the n900:

-bbc iplayer from the browser is unwatchable
- the Vimeo video from the browsers is unwatchable

Could be pre-release firmware issues, software not optimized or simply too process intensive for the phone. Something to re-test on the final firnware I guess

http://www.mobiledeveloper.tv/2009/10/16/episode-40-nokia-n900-and-bbc-iplayer-bad-news-folks/

http://tnkgrl.wordpress.com/2009/10/15/unboxing-the-nokia-n900/

[Bratag]

Here are 2 recent poor experiences with the n900:

-bbc iplayer from the browser is unwatchable
- the Vimeo video from the browsers is unwatchable

Could be pre-release firmware issues, software not optimized or simply too process intensive for the phone. Something to re-test on the final firnware I guess

http://www.mobiledeveloper.tv/2009/10/16/episode-40-nokia-n900-and-bbc-iplayer-bad-news-folks/

http://tnkgrl.wordpress.com/2009/10/15/unboxing-the-nokia-n900/

Um in the first paragraph of the second review

Although I’ve barely scratched the surface, I’m pretty smitten so far

I am no expert but that sounds like he may like the phone, lets look up smitten in the dictionary... yup I was right.

The BBC iplayer is based on flash 10 and thus I would expect bad performance , all the way through till Q1 of next year when the N900 gets flash 10.1

[bugelrex]

I'd be smittent too if I just received an N900 pre-release for several months an didn't have to pay a penny for. But for those who have to pay..

Anyway, for any folks who "PRIMARY" use for the n900 might have been the bbc iplayer via browser or watching Vimeo video they should probably cancel their pre-order and wait to test it on a production unit.

Note I said "primary" use, I doubt there are many buyers in this category .. but who knows

[Bratag]

I'd be smittent too if I just received an N900 pre-release for several months an didn't have to pay a penny for. But for those who have to pay..

Anyway, for any folks who "PRIMARY" use for the n900 might have been the bbc iplayer via browser or watching Vimeo video they should probably cancel their pre-order and wait to test it on a production unit.

Note I said "primary" use, I doubt there are many buyers in this category .. but who knows

Or they could wait 3 months until Q1 and flash 10

[tnkgrl]

I am no expert but that sounds like he may like the phone, lets look up smitten in the dictionary... yup I was right

Yes I'm smitten :) Oh and BTW I'm "she" not "he".

[geneven]

Oddly enough, I got a book on Gregg shorthand in the mail yesterday. I had been struck by a fit of nostalgia for it. I remembered more than I expected!

The only problem is, I'm not used to carrying paper with me.

Any idea how well shorthand would work on an N900 without a stylus?

[qole]

One handed use in portrait mode? Hmm, can you really reach almost the entire keyboard with one hand?

No, I actually cheated and tucked the handle of the umbrella between my elbow and my ribcage (with the shaft of the umbrella leaning against my chest) when I typed on the keyboard. I then tucked the device back in my pocket and waited for the next buzz that told me I had received another message.

Sorry for the poor phrasing. But it really wasn't a big deal to do it; I'm not double-jointed or an acrobat or something.

[chritto]

Note that the article listed by the original poster was actually the second part of a two-part review. In the first part, the reviewer explains how much he loves the device (see http://www.unwiredview.com/2009/10/13/nokia-n900-review-part-1-first-impressions-things-i-really-liked/ ). The second part are the only bad things he saw in the device. Overall, it was a very positive review - he even reiterates at the top "... don’t pay much attention to this “hate” thing. It is purely an attention grabber I am only annoyed, irritated or disappointed by most of them, and none are a deal breaker that will make me like my N900 less."

Let's not read too much into this :).

One thing I will say is: often I find myself reading emails in bed. It kills me when I roll over and my iPhone rotates the device, as though I'm sitting upright. Hence, having no portrait mode for most of Maemo 5 is actually a positive thing for me.

[ysss]

@chritto: thx for the clarificaton :D

Re: iphone
btw if your device is jailbroken, grab 'rotation inhibitor' from cydia. It adds a toggle to SBSettings, so it can be called up anytime.

[fms]

6. Complaining about lack of software for a unit that is not available to the general public and is known to be primarily supported by independent developers is kind of silly (seriously, dude...). Also, official Qt won't help symbian applications to get to Maemo as there IS NO significant amount of symbian Qt apps at this point.
Actually, this is a classic chicken-and-egg problem. Most Maemo5 applications can now be found in Extras-Testing, but not in Extras. In order to promote them into Extras, at least 10 people should try each app and vote for it. But the normal users do not see Extras-Testing, they only see Extras. So, they can't install and test Extras-Testing apps and vote for them. Result: "lack of software" for Maemo5 .

[RevdKathy]

Actually, this is a classic chicken-and-egg problem. Most Maemo5 applications can now be found in Extras-Testing, but not in Extras. In order to promote them into Extras, at least 10 people should try each app and vote for it. But the normal users do not see Extras-Testing, they only see Extras. So, they can't install and test Extras-Testing apps and vote for them. Result: "lack of software" for Maemo5 .

Do I detect a useful contribution the non-technical among us could make? Can we have a 'how do I get involved with testing? (and what to do if it crashes)' page in short words for bears of very little brain? Or is there one in the wiki and I haven't found it?

[fms]

Do I detect a useful contribution the non-technical among us could make?
Yes, you detect correctly.

Can we have a 'how do I get involved with testing? (and what to do if it crashes)' page in short words for bears of very little brain? Or is there one in the wiki and I haven't found it?
You probably can, but it is rather simple:

1. On your N900 device, go into App Manager, top menu, "Repositories", and add the following repository:

Name: Maemo Extras Testing
URL: http://repository.maemo.org/extras-testing/
Distribution: fremantle
Sections: free non-free
Enabled: YES

2. Do "Update", then "Download" and you will see way more packages than if you just use Extras. Install some you like.

3. Run installed packages. If package runs well, vote it up. If it crashes, vote it down and leave a comment. Voting and commenting happens here:

http://maemo.org/packages/repository/qa/fremantle_extras-testing/

Note: Each new version of the package has to be voted up separately!

Let me know if you have any questions.

[gerbick]

The BBC iplayer is based on flash 10 and thus I would expect bad performance , all the way through till Q1 of next year when the N900 gets flash 10.1

Actually, the streaming version of the BBC iPlayer is based on Flash Player 9.

On 9 April 2008 the BBC iPlayer was made available to stream video content on the Wii video game console via the Internet Channel (only available to UK residents). This was enabled by a recoding of the iPlayer to use Flash 7 rather than Flash 9. However, the Autumn 2009 update to the WII internet channel has resulted in the iPlayer no longer working on updated consoles.

The update is all FP9 at the moment with a newer version (yet released) making the move to FP10 in 2010.

[mikec]

Would have been usefull if the repos were all there but disabled, but big warning comes up when its enabled.

[Bratag]

Actually, the streaming version of the BBC iPlayer is based on Flash Player 9.



The update is all FP9 at the moment with a newer version (yet released) making the move to FP10 in 2010.


Thought it had already moved to 10. Well dont know what to say then, I know the site is bandwidth heavy, could it be that the video is simply to heavy to be played?

[RevdKathy]

Yes, you detect correctly.


You probably can, but it is rather simple:

1. On your N900 device, go into App Manager, top menu, "Repositories", and add the following repository:

Name: Maemo Extras Testing
URL: http://repository.maemo.org/extras-testing/
Distribution: fremantle
Sections: free non-free
Enabled: YES

2. Do "Update", then "Download" and you will see way more packages than if you just use Extras. Install some you like.

3. Run installed packages. If package runs well, vote it up. If it crashes, vote it down and leave a comment. Voting and commenting happens here:

http://maemo.org/packages/repository/qa/fremantle_extras-testing/

Note: Each new version of the package has to be voted up separately!

Let me know if you have any questions.

I'll do that as soon as my n900 arrives. There are a few things there I would like to test. A quick "How to reset if it goes wrong" would be handy too, as I understand the point is to test stability, which includes testing instability.

[Suurorca]

It probably isn't too likely that testing extras software will require reset, you should be able to just uninstall them the same way you originally installed them. However, should worst happen:

1) There should be software reset switch somewhere in the menus, though it was pain in the *** to find in earlier tablets

2) You can download re-flashing application to your PC and use the USB cable to reset the device.

Maybe I'll find some time next week to install the SDK and play a bit with the GUI. The sad few minutes I've had with the prototypes didn't really give me too much time to study menu structure :(

[gerbick]

Thought it had already moved to 10. Well dont know what to say then, I know the site is bandwidth heavy, could it be that the video is simply to heavy to be played?

I thought it had made the jump up too... but he PS3 compatibility just kept screaming at me... it's only FP9 compliant still in version 3.x on the PS3.

To be honest, who knows why it was a bad experience... too many variables. I've been using Google Wave on my N810 via Tear all week. Today, it was slow. But not the rest of the week. Couldn't tell you one good reason why.

[fms]

I'll do that as soon as my n900 arrives. There are a few things there I would like to test. A quick "How to reset if it goes wrong" would be handy too, as I understand the point is to test stability, which includes testing instability.
Press and hold the round button at the top until the device goes off. Wait for a few seconds, then press it again, and the device will boot up. If this fails, pop out the battery.

Note that from personal experience, you are not going to do this very often. Probably way less often than with some Symbian/S60 devices.

[allnameswereout]

Yes, you detect correctly.


You probably can, but it is rather simple:

1. On your N900 device, go into App Manager, top menu, "Repositories", and add the following repository:

Name: Maemo Extras Testing
URL: http://repository.maemo.org/extras-testing/
Distribution: fremantle
Sections: free non-free
Enabled: YES

2. Do "Update", then "Download" and you will see way more packages than if you just use Extras. Install some you like.

3. Run installed packages. If package runs well, vote it up. If it crashes, vote it down and leave a comment. Voting and commenting happens here:

http://maemo.org/packages/repository/qa/fremantle_extras-testing/

Note: Each new version of the package has to be voted up separately!

Let me know if you have any questions.Obligatory warning! (http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=32676) Additionally, if you brick your device now while the firmware images aren't public yet cannot restore the device until these firmware images are available.

Your device might also not work (well) potentially leaving you with a device without GSM/GPRS, impacting your communication abilities, leaving you without possibility calling emergency services.

[fms]

Obligatory warning! (http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=32676) Additionally, if you brick your device now while the firmware images aren't public yet cannot restore the device until these firmware images are available.
Well, this is kinda difficult to do with the current contents of Extras Testing.

Your device might also not work (well) potentially leaving you with a device without GSM/GPRS, impacting your communication abilities, leaving you without possibility calling emergency services.
Most applications from Extras Testing will also try to hypnotize you into slaughtering and eating your pets or (lacking pets) family members. Other minor but annoying side effects, such as hair loss, talking in tongues, and spontaneous changes in the size of sexual organs, have also been observed.

[RevdKathy]

Not much meat on my dog, and those other effects hold no fears for me.

I realise that the firmware flash isn't out yet (I read that bit) but neither is my n900. ;) I have this suspicion that one of the possible hold-ups on the release is making sure that the firmware is ready to go live too. At that point, include me in for testing. I looked at the respository, because the list just gives names, and I wantd to see what sort of apps we could be talking about.

[range]

Yeah, I can't figure out why they didn't use the same, and much better, screen that the iPhone have. I bet they will on the next version though.

So you didn't like the screen when you played with the device?

[christexaport]

official Qt won't help symbian applications to get to Maemo as there IS NO significant amount of symbian Qt apps at this point.
From what I'm seeing, Maemo will be the incubator and sandbox for apps to be ported to Symbian, Linux, and Windows/Windows Mobile, not the other way around. Many of the Symbian apps wouldn't be suitable for Maemo. Qt is the centerpiece, and Maemo will be the Qt engine that runs the entire mobile industry. That's how the Nokia brass are putting it.

[christexaport]

So you didn't like the screen when you played with the device?
Because not all apps that will run on Maemo 5 will be Maemo apps. By using the stylus and resistive screen, they can use desktop Linux apps as well, without needing to redo the UI for touch. The iPhone is limited in this regard, and mostly by its screen. Its a small feature many overlook, but the geeks and technofiles will appreciate it. They made it good enough where I don't see how it matters so much. You have the best of both worlds.

[allnameswereout]

[...] I realise that the firmware flash isn't out yet (I read that bit) but neither is my n900. ;) I have this suspicion that one of the possible hold-ups on the release is making sure that the firmware is ready to go live too. At that point, include me in for testing. [...](For now, obviously counts for those who already have one.)

Same here..

..but we must not forget the innocent bystander who reads [such] post and goes rampant, only to say 'why didn't you tell me Ben'. :)

Although the advice has also different value for extras-testing than extras-devel.

[allnameswereout]

From what I'm seeing, Maemo will be the incubator and sandbox for apps to be ported to Symbian, Linux, and Windows/Windows Mobile, not the other way around. Many of the Symbian apps wouldn't be suitable for Maemo. Qt is the centerpiece, and Maemo will be the Qt engine that runs the entire mobile industry. That's how the Nokia brass are putting it.Do you have any idea about how many Qt applications are currently existing and where the current Qt applications running on Maemo are stemming from? Have you ever seen an application from Qtopia ported to Qt? I haven't.

[dantonic]

Here are 2 recent poor experiences with the n900:

-bbc iplayer from the browser is unwatchable
- the Vimeo video from the browsers is unwatchable

Could be pre-release firmware issues, software not optimized or simply too process intensive for the phone. Something to re-test on the final firnware I guess

http://www.mobiledeveloper.tv/2009/10/16/episode-40-nokia-n900-and-bbc-iplayer-bad-news-folks/

http://tnkgrl.wordpress.com/2009/10/15/unboxing-the-nokia-n900/

Sorry can't provide any links, as I can't remember where I read it, but I remember something about how the browser is just trying to play the full high quality video format, as opposed to a lower one that it should.

like the iphone i guess plays when trying to play a bbc iplayer video?


is this similar to the youtube issue? On my n800 if I play utube videos from the browser it looks horrible, but if I do so through a youtube client it looks perfect.

[Suurorca]

*pffth*

Kathy, this is all your fault. Now I just had to spend 2.5h installing the darned SDK to get to play with the GUI. Geez...

And guess what I'll be doing the whole night? Yeah, that's right... playing with it.

[RevdKathy]

*pffth*

Kathy, this is all your fault. Now I just had to spend 2.5h installing the darned SDK to get to play with the GUI. Geez...

And guess what I'll be doing the whole night? Yeah, that's right... playing with it.

Huh? Whut? Me?

What-did-I-do?

Look, you want to waste an evening, I got an open fire, chocolate, warm English beer and good malt whisky. Sheesh! Spend all night fiddling with a computer and blame it on a girl. Typical!

:p

[Suurorca]

Luckily I had at least some nice Irish whisky with me. Too bad I'm not willing to burn my books to simulate a fire place :(


Huh? Whut? Me?


What-did-I-do?

Look, you want to waste an evening, I got an open fire, chocolate, warm English beer and good malt whisky. Sheesh! Spend all night fiddling with a computer and blame it on a girl. Typical!

:p

[RevdKathy]

I never burn books, though I may have to get rid of some as my library is overflowing and there's no room for more shelves. Fire is logs, a bit of coal, and the bills.

Digitise some of your Irish whisky and PM it me. ;)

[chemist]

Hey guys I found a pretty cool article written just today regarding one user's experience with the N900. You can can find it here http://www.unwiredview.com/2009/10/15/nokia-n900-review-pt2-first-impressions-6-things-i-hate-about-n900/

Pretty interesting especially considering he's still using a pre-release device, and apparently not the final model.

some (p)reviews argue about lack of apps widgets etc of a device thats atm only shipped about 400- times and not out on the market for sale!

the n900 is a nice special tech savvy and will start to glow in my hands once it is shipped but I doubt that some of the kiddy style fashion victims apple points to will buy a n900 for the same reasons I do!

I read as many (p)reviews as I could find via google and maemo-talk and seriously the more I read the more I am pissed about the lack of intelligence, also the talking in here about "missing that and missing this" the device is on pre-order and nokia will do its best to get it as good as possible within this month till release, or do you think there is another reason for keeping it back another month instead of "public made nokia aware of serious lack of features needed to have it more phone like" (I know most of the nxx0 guys would'nt bother). for a proper smartphone-tablet there are some features missing known as MMS, an island, portrait mode and keyboard and other stuff, but believe me its just software and for linux its just a missing file!

the thread-name: "...apparently not" for me its not a phone and its not perfect... yet! what is perfect is related to what you are in need of and what you expect it to be to solve problems you wouldnt have without it. its not in my hands yet but I can tell if I should choose between 500eur n900 and a gifted iPhone 3GS, I choose the n900. why? (OSS vs Jail).

I see the points of people complaining about lack of this and that but I dont get why any lack of software is a reason to not buy this device. AFAIK there will be at least one freaking nerd who is pissed of not having some feature and spends some nights on coding-forking-recompiling to solve this! I for one want all this uploading pictures thing doing resize and watermarking on my pictures and upload it to my site instead of some google-nokia-commercial service. I havent thought of solving this yet, there might be one who could do that in a few hours and will do, or it will take me some days to figure out how or you have a solution ready.. I dont know but there will be one and thats not a single case. if there is a problem and you cant/wont solve it yourself, ask the community to make this device as feature-rich as you want it to be and maybe some people say "hey good idea I want that on my nXXX too! how can I help?" thats the way OSS development works, sometimes its fast sometimes not, but at least there is development you can help with even if you just send some coffee to your favourite dev-team!

[DaveP1]

Digitise some of your Irish whisky and PM it me. ;)

It wouldn't be much worse than drinking it from the bottle.

Irish is to Scotch as the iPhone is to the N900.

[Staska]

Hi,

I am the author of the article that started this thread. Got here a bit late, sorry about that.

Just read through it all, mostly liked it, and am open for discussion.

Though there were some of you calling me an idiot and other names for that story.

And I had a really good time composing a reply for one of you, who was bothered enough to get to my site and call me as having "idiopathic, self-indulging, hypocritical, ignorant, mind set"...That was a real fun, but a waste of time.

Anyway, I'm here to respond to any questions and critique to what I wrote.

And I have even more today.

After installing quite a few apps from test repository, and playing around with my N900, it is starting to act funny. The thing I tweeted: "Weird reactions, slowdowns, problems downloading files, gpodder app stopped working, etc;"...
And then I got this reply from Eldar Murtazin from mobile-review.com:
"lol, just beginning :) put more data see more slowdown"

I just hope it's because of the pre-release software and beta apps I installed.

[Texrat]

I walked down the street holding an umbrella in my hand and IM chatting over Google Talk with fiferboy yesterday.

Geezus, qole, without me there to yank you away from taxis???

[bbns]

@Staska

gPodder is a community port without real testing and not from Nokia. I guess you have read the warning before downloading maemo-extra?

[Kypeli]

I know many of you have your own N900s and probably all of you have read several reviews and seen a lot of videos of the N900 already. Nevertheless, here are my $0.02 about the N900:

http://kypeli.blogspot.com/2009/10/week-with-nokia-n900.html

[RevdKathy]

I know many of you have your own N900s and probably all of you have read several reviews and seen a lot of videos of the N900 already. Nevertheless, here are my $0.02 about the N900:

http://kypeli.blogspot.com/2009/10/week-with-nokia-n900.html

Good review. Brightened my morning! Thank you.

[Suurorca]

Yes, nice hype.:D

[access]

I just hope it's because of the pre-release software and beta apps I installed.


I think you answered your question there. Just because Google (and a lot of other companies too) are releasing beta software like it was production sw, doesn't mean everyone does.

The traditional meaning of beta is that it is very much pre-release software with bugs and other crap in it (debugging code), so I think it's a bit irresponsible to write articles criticising something when the source of the problems are unknown. Submit bug reports* instead and wait for the release software… and if the release software is buggy, then go ahead and complain all you want.

* Seriously, submit bug reports, as I don't think developers have time to trawl the internet for rants about instability in their apps… they are busy coding.

[fms]

After installing quite a few apps from test repository, and playing around with my N900, it is starting to act funny. The thing I tweeted: "Weird reactions, slowdowns, problems downloading files, gpodder app stopped working, etc;"...
For some reason, I am not noticing anything like this with my N900, and I also installed loads of apps from both Extras-Testing and Extras-Devel. By this logic, my N900 should have been long dead.

And then I got this reply from Eldar Murtazin from mobile-review.com: "lol, just beginning :) put more data see more slowdown"
Sorry but I would not listen to what Eldar says too much. He makes very good observations every now and then, but in this particular case he is just bitсhing out of personal spite. For example, in relation to that quote of his, just what "data" does he mean?

I just hope it's because of the pre-release software and beta apps I installed.
As I cannot repeat the same behavior here, my guess is that it is just one or two apps that you have installed. Remove them all using App Manager and then add them one by one, carefully. See what happens.

Actually, there may be another reason for your problems. Could you please run XTerm and type:
df <enter>
there? Then copy and paste the output of that command to this thread.

[Thor]

no clock on stand-by screen -1
no missed calls/sms on standby screen -1
unlocking button on the wrong place -1
no google maps/ovi 3.0 -1

rest = nagging/impatience

won't maps.google.com work in internet browser?

I don't understand why the standby/locked screen doesn't contain this information. It does on my Blackberry Bold. If you look at a picture of the screen here:

http://www.gsmarena.com/blackberry_bold_9000-pictures-2370.php

The top "strip" with info on date/time, missed calls, emails, SMSs, IMs etc listed remains on the Bold even when locked. The light indicator will flash but won't tell you what kind of message or alert you are receiving. Having this info means not having to unlock to see what's arrived (wasn't that an annoyance for iphone users - doubly worse as there's not even an alert light?).

[Laughing Man]

Dunno about message alerts and what not, but the clock on standby / lock shouldn't be a problem considering we have software like that already from Maemo 4. Granted i don't think it's actively developed anymore, but it is possible.

[Thor]

Dunno about message alerts and what not, but the clock on standby / lock shouldn't be a problem considering we have software like that already from Maemo 4. Granted i don't think it's actively developed anymore, but it is possible.

Speaking of which, my Nokia N82 has a faded out clock that can be viewed when the phone is locked.... the message alerts / signal strength / date etc would make it even better, and something over the app-phone.

[Oberon85]

all i know at this point is that verizon droid will be here soon, like november... something to compare to, with android 2.0...

[christexaport]

Android OS has little to compare to Maemo. Its like comparing an airplane to the space shuttle. Android has features, but its boundaries limit it. The Maemo OS is almost limitless.

[Laughing Man]

Not to mention it seems true multi-tasking isn't that great on the Android platform.. ideally Google will be able to improve that though. Though I don't know how much you can given the way its built (java on top of a Linux kernel)

[christexaport]

I don't know how much you can given the way its built (java on top of a Linux kernel)

Exactly my point. Android isn't very sophisticated other than its core. Apps will always be super java apps, and nothing more.

[Markosib]

chopsticks should work, too.
Can confirm....chopsticks do work! Anybody found a replacement OEM stylus for N800....?!

[ossipena]

I'll do that as soon as my n900 arrives. There are a few things there I would like to test. A quick "How to reset if it goes wrong" would be handy too, as I understand the point is to test stability, which includes testing instability.

http://wiki.maemo.org/General_precautions

there is a link to reflashing. and you have a good idea for new wiki page. i opened it but it has a lack of content right now.
http://wiki.maemo.org/Howto_fix_maemo

and back to the topic:
http://wiki.maemo.org/Help_testing_software

[access]

I don't understand why the standby/locked screen doesn't contain this information. It does on my Blackberry Bold. If you look at a picture of the screen here:

http://www.gsmarena.com/blackberry_bold_9000-pictures-2370.php

The top "strip" with info on date/time, missed calls, emails, SMSs, IMs etc listed remains on the Bold even when locked. The light indicator will flash but won't tell you what kind of message or alert you are receiving. Having this info means not having to unlock to see what's arrived (wasn't that an annoyance for iphone users - doubly worse as there's not even an alert light?).

It has got time and date on the lock screen. File a feature request for SMS/Mail/Message display. :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eq9tIZwJV6w

[Fargus]

Oddly enough, I got a book on Gregg shorthand in the mail yesterday. I had been struck by a fit of nostalgia for it. I remembered more than I expected!

The only problem is, I'm not used to carrying paper with me.

Any idea how well shorthand would work on an N900 without a stylus?

Well that's a coincidence, I was just talking about how useful an app that would be to allow use of shorthand on the Maemo platform and then maybe allow a 'translation' to more mortal text ready for export to a word processor later. Obviously there are multiple systems, Pitman & Gregg but should be fairly simple concept if we can suss out the gesture capture.

[bugelrex]

One reviewer's (from nokiausers.net) n900 unit has started to become unstable. Wonder how he got it into this state? hopefully production firmware doesn't exhibit this. But he only got this unit last week


http://twitter.com/MickyFin
Had to put the N900 preview to one side for now, and wait for its new firmware. Its become unusable for anything web & wifi related.

[Bratag]

One reviewer's (from nokiausers.net) n900 unit has started to become unstable. Wonder how he got it into this state? hopefully production firmware doesn't exhibit this. But he only got this unit last week


http://twitter.com/MickyFin
Had to put the N900 preview to one side for now, and wait for its new firmware. Its become unusable for anything web & wifi related.

Hard to tell anything from that, no indication of what other stuff he has dumped onto his phone.

One hopes that it isnt indicative of a clean phone however.

[mikec]

Can confirm....chopsticks do work! Anybody found a replacement OEM stylus for N800....?!

Chopsticks are great, and should be taught to every child at a very young age, then we would not have to deal with this finger UI thing :mad:

[Laughing Man]

Well given initial questioning.. I don't think it's possible to have more than one ringtone right now. Seems there is only a general and silent profile. And I haven't heard anyone else speak up about the ringtone issue (it's not in editting a contact either).

So yes it seems right now it is not the perfect phone, it only has one ringtone for each type of alert. Unless Nokia hasn't implemented yet, or it's hidden deep somewhere.. it should at least be a ringtone per group (family, friends, work, etc..)

[christexaport]

I know many of you have your own N900s and probably all of you have read several reviews and seen a lot of videos of the N900 already. Nevertheless, here are my $0.02 about the N900:

http://kypeli.blogspot.com/2009/10/week-with-nokia-n900.html

quick, to the point, and on target. You are obviously more technically adept or suited to the N900 than Om. Thanks.

[Bratag]

I know many of you have your own N900s and probably all of you have read several reviews and seen a lot of videos of the N900 already. Nevertheless, here are my $0.02 about the N900:

http://kypeli.blogspot.com/2009/10/week-with-nokia-n900.html

Good review. Especially like this line

And you will also be surprised that after I watched 1.5 hours of DivX on the device, it still had 2/3 of its battery power left!

[RevdKathy]

One reviewer's (from nokiausers.net) n900 unit has started to become unstable. Wonder how he got it into this state? hopefully production firmware doesn't exhibit this. But he only got this unit last week


http://twitter.com/MickyFin
Had to put the N900 preview to one side for now, and wait for its new firmware. Its become unusable for anything web & wifi related.

I gather Chippy (from UMPC) has a dead screen on his model, too. Which is.... worrying.

[GeneralAntilles]

I gather Chippy (from UMPC) has a dead screen on his model, too. Which is.... worrying.

Remember that these are pre-production prototypes. :)

[Bratag]

Remember that these are pre-production prototypes. :)

Important to note as well, some units are going to have hardware etc failures. Regardless of QA some units are just going to have a bad component. Send it back - get a replacement.

That's not to say if every ones screen starts to fail we shouldn't be worried :)

[benny1967]

quick, to the point, and on target. You are obviously more technically adept or suited to the N900 than Om. Thanks.

:) I find it a little surprising that everybody who praises the N900 is "technically adept" while others (Eldar, for example) get bashed here.

While i do understand the emotional aspect of "Us Maemo Good", we have to acknowledge that as a smartphone (and the 'phone'-part is what this thread is about), the N900 still has to catch up with... well, all other competitors. Including Nokias S60 line.

There's nothing wrong with this. It's not sold as the perfect smartphone, and as a pocketable computer, there's probably nothing that beats it. But why are most of us trying to insist that it's a good phone? It isn't. Yet.

[Bratag]

:) I find it a little surprising that everybody who praises the N900 is "technically adept" while others (Eldar, for example) get bashed here.

While i do understand the emotional aspect of "Us Maemo Good", we have to acknowledge that as a smartphone (and the 'phone'-part is what this thread is about), the N900 still has to catch up with... well, all other competitors. Including Nokias S60 line.

There's nothing wrong with this. It's not sold as the perfect smartphone, and as a pocketable computer, there's probably nothing that beats it. But why are most of us trying to insist that it's a good phone? It isn't. Yet.

All I look for in a review is that the first paragraph doesnt make a friggin comparison to the iphone. Review something on its own merits thats all I ask.

Also Eldar copped a pizzling here because he constantly refused to say what firmware/hardware he was running and instead chose to go on and on and on about how he has the coolest toys and how he reviews everything and has ins with all the manufacturers etc. Not a good way to boost your cred.

[bugelrex]

Remember that these are pre-production prototypes. :)

I'm assuming these came off the production line as they are final hardware and they gave out 300 of them. If Nokia is not aware of the screen issue the production line won't be tweaked to resolve it.

Only a problem if his screen issue is not a very isolated issue only on his unit (e.g he dropped it or left it under the sun etc)

[DaveP1]

All I look for in a review is that the first paragraph doesnt make a friggin comparison to the iphone. Review something on its own merits thats all I ask.

I would disagree. When I read a review, I look for what a device does better or worse, for more or less money, than its competition. For better or worse the primary competition for any phone with computing capabilities is the iPhone.

My concern is not that the iPhone is used for comparison but that the comparison is fair. The N900 has capabilities that are not present in the iPhone and vice versa. Pointing both sides out is what a good review should do.

Frankly, I would like to see a comparison with other devices like the Motorola Droid (or whatever it ends up being called). But that will probably have to wait until they both go into production.

[bemymonkey]

My concern is not that the iPhone is used for comparison but that the comparison is fair. The N900 has capabilities that are not present in the iPhone and vice versa. Pointing both sides out is what a good review should do.

Uh... just out of morbid curiosity: What can you do on an iPhone that you can't on an N900? I can think of a whole list of things that the N900 can do, that the iPhone can't... but the other way around?

[DaveP1]

Uh... just out of morbid curiosity: What can you do on an iPhone that you can't on an N900? I can think of a whole list of things that the N900 can do, that the iPhone can't... but the other way around?

I don't know of much. Basically the three advantages I have seen touted for the iPhone are a better touch experience (and a more scratch resistant screen), a far more extensive set of apps (some of which probably do things that the N900 can't do yet), and a cheaper price (at least in the US so far).

If I had to have a phone today, I'd pick the PalmPre over the iPhone and G1 over the PalmPre. Based on the announced phones, I think the N900 and Motorola Droid lead the pack. But whatever my opinion, I would bet that almost every review of any of these will compare them to the iPhone. It is the gorilla in the room.

[bemymonkey]

OK, capacitive vs. resistive is a difficult decision for some people, I guess... not for me :)

As for the apps, I don't think the iPhone had a whole bunch of apps back when Apple hadn't even launched it yet... and the price, is it really more expensive? How much is an unlocked iPhone in the states, $800+?

[GeneralAntilles]

(and a more scratch resistant screen)


This point is arguable, but at the very least my N900 has survived a chest-level drop onto carpet. The same cannot be said for my sister's 3G.

[Kozzi]

If not for multitouch, I don't think I want a capacitive screen. I often use my pen as a stylus while also using it to take notes in class, it's precise and quite handy feature of resistive screen.

[DaveP1]

OK, capacitive vs. resistive is a difficult decision for some people, I guess... not for me :)

As for the apps, I don't think the iPhone had a whole bunch of apps back when Apple hadn't even launched it yet... and the price, is it really more expensive? How much is an unlocked iPhone in the states, $800+?

As far as the screen, I think both of them are inferior to an active digitizer. But to each his own.

You're right, the iPhone didn't have apps when it came out but the N900 wasn't competing with it back then. It's competing with what exists now and you can't blame reviewers for pointing that out.

You're also right that the unlocked iPhone is more expensive than an N900. But almost nobody buys unlocked iPhones in the states - they buy locked phones and gripe about the ATT network. The problem is that there is no discount from carriers if you provide your own phone. The voice and data plans that you will have to buy to support the N900 are the same price as those voice and data plans with a deeply discounted phone.

[peio]

Uh... just out of morbid curiosity: What can you do on an iPhone that you can't on an N900? I can think of a whole list of things that the N900 can do, that the iPhone can't... but the other way around?

I found one: Sync multiple google calendars over-the-air :D

[Laughing Man]

You're also right that the unlocked iPhone is more expensive than an N900. But almost nobody buys unlocked iPhones in the states - they buy locked phones and gripe about the ATT network. The problem is that there is no discount from carriers if you provide your own phone. The voice and data plans that you will have to buy to support the N900 are the same price as those voice and data plans with a deeply discounted phone.

Hopefully that will be one of TMobile's Project Black changes.

[christexaport]

:) I find it a little surprising that everybody who praises the N900 is "technically adept" while others (Eldar, for example) get bashed here.
You have a good point. I think this way, but can't put it in any other way. Maybe he's not into convergence as much as the average geek? Hell, what am I saying? He's typical American techie that THINKS he's an ubergeek! Or something. He's an idiot is so overused, and I don't think he is, just not sold on full convergence yet like me.

While i do understand the emotional aspect of "Us Maemo Good", we have to acknowledge that as a smartphone (and the 'phone'-part is what this thread is about), the N900 still has to catch up with... well, all other competitors. Including Nokias S60 line.
ESPECIALLY S60! I bet a clicking a phone number in the browser doesn't initiate a call. This is where N900 will teach us where we need to go, and what we'll need to make it the phone the Hero, N97, N86, iPhone, TP2, and Blackberry all are. Not computing, just calling and communications. The N900's web communications are second to none, but the legacy networks are still the defacto way to communicate.

[bemymonkey]

As far as the screen, I think both of them are inferior to an active digitizer. But to each his own.

Sounds good to me. :)



You're also right that the unlocked iPhone is more expensive than an N900. But almost nobody buys unlocked iPhones in the states - they buy locked phones and gripe about the ATT network. The problem is that there is no discount from carriers if you provide your own phone. The voice and data plans that you will have to buy to support the N900 are the same price as those voice and data plans with a deeply discounted phone.

Well that sucks... how come? Over here (Germany) contracts without a phone cost a helluva lot less...

[christexaport]

unlocked devices are not very publicized, though Best Buy has raised their visibility in the last year. The manufacturers can't market their unlocked devices because of contracts with the carriers. You can get discounts on att on data, but its nothing major. Also, many major devices like the iPhone are near impossible to buy unlocked unless you go online, and phone sales online isn't as big as buying brick and mortar in the US.

[christexaport]

Our carriers have alot of power, and act as cartels. They stymie user adoption of high end devices and features. The big knock on S60 was circumventing the ringtone business, among other things, and the carriers wanted the OS crippled in order to carry them.

[DaveP1]

Hopefully that will be one of TMobile's Project Black changes.

It's on my wish list too. :p

[Texrat]

This point is arguable, but at the very least my N900 has survived a chest-level drop onto carpet. The same cannot be said for my sister's 3G.

My oldest son accidentally knocked my N900 from my hand yesterday. It hit the floor hard; battery cover dislodged and battery flew out. No obvious damage.

[GeneralAntilles]

My oldest son accidentally knocked my N900 from my hand yesterday. It hit the floor hard; battery cover dislodged and battery flew out. No obvious damage.

I always liked dropping my N800 onto hard floors 'cause all of the various pieces would fly in every direction and it looked cool. ;)

[benny1967]

My oldest son accidentally knocked my N900 from my hand yesterday. It hit the floor hard; battery cover dislodged and battery flew out. No obvious damage.

"thanks" for this post goes to your son. add this to his karma at home ;)
posts like these give a good feeling about the overall quality of the device. few people would have tested it the way your son did. :D

[christexaport]

My oldest son accidentally knocked my N900 from my hand yesterday. It hit the floor hard; battery cover dislodged and battery flew out. No obvious damage.

Ouch. I bet he felt horrible. How does he like the N900, knowing he's a Symbian user? Does he have familiarity with Linux on the desktop?

[christexaport]

I usually throw my phones in the backyard as soon as I get them. Honestly. Gotta get a scar first before you can roll in my pocket. The N900 won't get this treatment, though, because it'll be my ONLY mobile device other than a couple N95s and an N78, all with cracked screens and just for parts, though they still work.

[bugelrex]

tnkgrl's n900 randomly rebooting.. She just got it last week. Going from pre-release to final doesn't 'magically' make these issues go away. But could be a bad build or they added/turned-on some new features which de-stabilized things..

http://twitter.com/tnkgrl

# More N900 weirdness - it's no longer dropping calls, but it's randomly rebooting :) Ah, pre-release firmware. #n900about 10 hours ago from TweetDeck

[fms]

tnkgrl's n900 randomly rebooting.. She just got it last week. Going from pre-release to final doesn't 'magically' make these issues go away. But could be a bad build or they added/turned-on some new features which de-stabilized things..
I would bet on one of two:

1. Some rogue application she installed.
2. A ground station or two where she lives that have got handoff problems.

#2 is going to be more probable by a huge margin and explain both dropped calls and reboots. In fact, I have got a spot like that along my daily route to work. It manages to confuse both ancient E70 and the brand new N900.

PS: To clear things up it makes sense to ask her if the reboots always happen around the same location and if they only happen when she is using 3G or GPRS network connection in that area.

[allnameswereout]

I would disagree. When I read a review, I look for what a device does better or worse, for more or less money, than its competition. For better or worse the primary competition for any phone with computing capabilities is the iPhone.

My concern is not that the iPhone is used for comparison but that the comparison is fair. The N900 has capabilities that are not present in the iPhone and vice versa. Pointing both sides out is what a good review should do.

Frankly, I would like to see a comparison with other devices like the Motorola Droid (or whatever it ends up being called). But that will probably have to wait until they both go into production.Its both valid, both has market, but when 'every' review keeps comparing to something you not interested in or which does things you very much do not like then you're getting ill at one point from all the comparing, and it frustrates because it draws attention away from the potential of the individual (the device, N900, in this case).

[Laughing Man]

I always liked dropping my N800 onto hard floors 'cause all of the various pieces would fly in every direction and it looked cool. ;)

Haha.. sadly my n800 has a few scratches on its bezel.. that's about it.