N900 Thickness [Archive] - maemo.org

vzontini

10-30-2009, 11:30 PM

mmurfin87

10-30-2009, 11:37 PM

Don't tell anyone that it was ME that told you, but I know for a fact that extra thickness is taken up by a flux capacitor.

Its an easter egg.

maven1975

10-31-2009, 12:32 AM

Its too late now, but there should have been enough space for a larger battery. That would have been a killer feature.

bugelrex

10-31-2009, 12:43 AM

The cellphone news has been jumping on the new Motorola Droid Android 2.0 phone. At 60.0mm x 115.8mm x 13.7mm and 169g it packs a 3.7" WVGA capacitive screen and 1400mAh battery. The rest of the specs are comparable to the N900 as well.

The N900 is 59.8mm x 110.9mm × 18.0mm (19.55 at thickest) and 181g with a 3.5" WVGA screen and 1320mAh battery.

13.7mm thick vs 19.55 is a big difference.

At first I thought the slider design of the N900 was the reason for the extra thickness but that isn't the case.

This leaves me wondering why the N900 is so thick.

Being this thick but not being able to fit the larger BP-4L 1500 mah battery but managing to fit space for a stylus... and with a UI design requires a stylus maybe 5-10% of the time.... bizarre design decision!

GeneralAntilles

10-31-2009, 12:45 AM

Being this thick but not being able to fit the larger BP-4L 1500 mah battery but managing to fit space for a stylus... and with a UI design requires a stylus maybe 5-10% of the time.... bizarre design decision!

Er, yeah, because you know for sure that the stylus made all the difference. :rolleyes:

bugelrex

10-31-2009, 12:58 AM

Er, yeah, because you know for sure that the stylus made all the difference. :rolleyes:

C'mon that stylus is pretty long.
I'm pretty sure they didn't design the phone and found so much empty space that they said.. lets stick the stylus in there!

cb474

10-31-2009, 12:58 AM

I was reading at Engadget that the keyboard is supposed to completely suck on the Droid (according to more than one person). And someone else noted that the camera is less than stellar. I don't really know how the engineering on these things works, but I wonder if Motorola skimped on a lot of components. So on paper the Droid looks pretty comparable to the N900. But in practice cramming so much in a super thin space resulted in cutting a lot of corners.

I do agree the stylus is a bit of an odd choice.

I've also read that the N900 was conceived more as a development device than a consumer device, but then Nokia made a different decision about what to do with it. So Perhaps Nokia wasn't making it's biggest effort to engineer for thinness.

Also I believe the case on the Droid is made of metal. Perhaps that allows the material to be a little thinner, at least accounting for 1mm?

mrojas

10-31-2009, 01:27 AM

From what I have seen of the N900 mainboard, I think the thickness can be attributed to the stereo speakers and the camera module. Could be wrong.

GeneralAntilles

10-31-2009, 01:35 AM

C'mon that stylus is pretty long.
I'm pretty sure they didn't design the phone and found so much empty space that they said.. lets stick the stylus in there!

Speaking as somebody who actually has access to a device, removing the stylus would not have provided enough room for the BP-4L. :)

GeraldKo

10-31-2009, 01:41 AM

If you're going to need/prefer a stylus 10% of the time, then you need to have a place to stick it. And it needs to be convenient to get to and to put away. That means the phone needs a space for it. It adds a little bulk but nearly no weight. A good design decision, IMHO.

fms

10-31-2009, 02:58 AM

C'mon that stylus is pretty long.
I'm pretty sure they didn't design the phone and found so much empty space that they said.. lets stick the stylus in there!
Have your ever seen a battery shaped like a stylus? Once you do, come back here and absolutely require Nokia to expand N900 battery capacity.

MrGrim

10-31-2009, 03:07 AM

As i understand, droid doesn't have too much internal storage. Memory chips aren't that big, but aren't size-less either

HangLoose

10-31-2009, 03:41 AM

This leaves me wondering why the N900 is so thick.

more to love baby... :cool:

jalladin

10-31-2009, 04:25 AM

well I guess it leaves us all wondering really... I love the N900 already and I'm sold on ( literally since I'm among 100's who've preorderd ) but I do see some things I like about the Droid and a few that leave me.. well a bit jealous as far as what was able to be pulled off with that device and not with the N900 like size and to give a more in depth explanation: screen size, keyboard, and battery... and if i could trade all three of those to get at leat one thing the droid has going for it would be that ole release date that is coming up and I'm sure will be sold... now thats hot! lol but i would mind the screen size or battery "as much" if we could some how mange to get a keyboard of that size on our device... I'm sure the one that is on it works well enough but those extra physical keys would be nice

mikec

10-31-2009, 04:30 AM

The cellphone news has been jumping on the new Motorola Droid Android 2.0 phone. At 60.0mm x 115.8mm x 13.7mm and 169g it packs a 3.7" WVGA capacitive screen and 1400mAh battery. The rest of the specs are comparable to the N900 as well.

The N900 is 59.8mm x 110.9mm × 18.0mm (19.55 at thickest) and 181g with a 3.5" WVGA screen and 1320mAh battery.

13.7mm thick vs 19.55 is a big difference.

At first I thought the slider design of the N900 was the reason for the extra thickness but that isn't the case.

This leaves me wondering why the N900 is so thick.
1mm for the stereo speakers
1mm for the kick stand
1mm for the camera cover
1mm for the better quality lens
1mm cause its not as long or wide
1mm for more keyboard travel
1mm for stylus (and yes I want one of those)
1mm for the fm transmitter and receiver
1mm for the integrated 32GB

oh and 2mm for the tv out :D

Mike C

quipper8

10-31-2009, 05:13 AM

I would have definitely liked bp4l battery as well since I already have quite a few of them but oh well.

draco.bdn

10-31-2009, 05:33 AM

What's the deal with a tinny Droid bundeled with a huge contract on one special carrier?
It could be as thin as a piece of paper... won't buy it because I felt for the iPhone and it's expensive contracts. So no good at all..

cb474

10-31-2009, 06:30 AM

1mm for the stereo speakers
1mm for the kick stand
1mm for the camera cover
1mm for the better quality lens
1mm cause its not as long or wide
1mm for more keyboard travel
1mm for stylus (and yes I want one of those)
1mm for the fm transmitter and receiver
1mm for the integrated 32GB

oh and 2mm for the tv out :D

Mike C

-The kickstand is part of a separate part that buldges out around the camera, so it's not part of the 18mm thickness.
-Ditto for camera cover
-Ditto for at least some of the lens and camera module (and do we really know that the Nokia's module is bigger than the one in the Droid?).

-The N900 and Droid are the same width (59.8 mm vs 60 mm). Also, due to it's thinness, the Droid has considerably less volume than the N900 (about 95cc vs 113cc). The droid only gains an extra 4cc from it's additional length. In fact, it would have to be another 2cm longer to have the same volume as the N900, if it's width and depth did not change. So the Droid is really not somehow making up for in length what it's losing in thinness.

-Keyboard travel is probably right. It really sounds from reviews like Motorola skimped on the keyboard. Looks nice, is very crappy to actually use.

-The fm transmitter and receiver I think are part of the chip that also includes bluetooth and maybe some other things. Does it really add that much space in and of itself? I don't know.

-The T.V. out jack is the same as the headset jack and the Droid also has a 3.5mm jack, so is there really a difference there?

I'm not saying that the N900 isn't thicker, because Nokia has packed more into it than the Droid. But I'm not sure those reasons really add up. Also the N97-mini has almost all the same features as the N900, but is almost as thin as the Droid (14.2 vs 13.7mm). And the N97 has in fact, I think, all the same features as the N900 (except 8 vs. 32Gb memroy, but with a bigger battery) and is still 2mm thinner and has 20% less volume. Does the stylus and the extra memory really account for 20% of the N900's volume?

I don't know maybe Maemo is thicker.

But seriously, perhaps the N900 just isn't Nokia's best engineering effort. As I said above, I read somewhere (can't remember where) that it was really conceived orginally as more of a developers platform than a consumer device.

mikec

10-31-2009, 07:23 AM

I think he said it was 19.5mm at its thickest.

My sarcastic point is that its an apples to oranges comparison. If thickness is an issue you will get the droid. If you need decent photos and memory etc, you know what to do.

Mike C

wazd

10-31-2009, 07:31 AM

If you'll look at the droid's abomination called "keyboard" you'll understand everything. Nokia was smart enough to make keyboard comfortable instead of trading it for some marketing bs. Thanks for that.

Ovek

10-31-2009, 07:40 AM

Wait your saying the n900 isn't the best Nokia could do even though it the best looking phone Nokia has produced in years which I might add the best keyboard they have produced in years (rivals the HTC pro2 apparently).

cb474

10-31-2009, 07:42 AM

I think he sad it was 19.5mm at its thickest.

My sarcastic point is that its an apples to oranges comparison. If thickness is an issue you will get the droid. If you need decent photos and memory etc, you know what to do.

Mike C

It's 19.5mm on at the point where the postage stamp sized buldge for the camera is. Everywhere else it's 18mm. So basically it's 18mm.

I didn't really see the sarcasm in your post. It seemed like you were claiming basically the N900 is thicker because it packs more features in it. And I was trying to point out that it's not really obvious the thickness can be explained that way. I think the comparison to the N97 and N97-mini is especially telling. This is after all a thread about why the N900 is as thick as it is, not about why the N900 is better than the Droid or why you should get the N900 over the Droid or vice-versa.

mikec

10-31-2009, 07:50 AM

Oh one more thing
1mm for the infra red
1mm for the front facing camera

Mike C

zehjotkah

10-31-2009, 08:22 AM

1mm for resistive touchscreen.. yeah!!

bugelrex

10-31-2009, 09:47 AM

Have your ever seen a battery shaped like a stylus? Once you do, come back here and absolutely require Nokia to expand N900 battery capacity.

Without the space for the stylus, they could have easily fitted a 'wider' battery.

wazd

10-31-2009, 11:12 AM

Without the space for the stylus, they could have easily fitted a 'wider' battery.

How easily? Any calculations or projects?

Alex Atkin UK

10-31-2009, 11:21 AM

My opinion on some of the points made here.

Battery:
Unless you have used the N900 extensively, complaining that they didn't use a better battery is silly.

Consider that by using the same battery as previous models it saves Nokia money not having to design and manufacture a new battery. Even better, once the battery dies it shouldn't be too hard finding an official replacement so no worries buying poor knock-offs or worse, not being able to find that specific model at all.

So its a win win situation, as long as the N900 has reasonable battery life (which by all reports, it does) then Nokia made a good choice. Stick to a tried and tested battery, avoid all the cost and risk of developing something new.

Keyboard:
It never fails to amaze me how people under value a good keyboard.

I would much rather have a thicker device with a keyboard with decent button travel than a thinner device where you get poor response. I had a lot of problems with my Xperia X1 keyboard because it didn't have enough travel on the buttons. The layout was excellent (although the size awkard due to the device being too narrow), like the Droid, but a good layout with poor response is useless. The Droid keyboard at least in the photos looks really cheap.

Speakers:
This one should be obvious, the bigger the device the better the sound quality can be. If you mount tiny speakers flush to the case you get tinny sound and minimal volume, but if you allow a little space you can drastically improve both loudness and bass response.

Again, the Xperia X1 was super quiet and tinny (I could never hear it ring in my pocket) because they favoured design over functionality. The slit for the audio was microscopic, if they had made it a little wider they could have had amazing sound. In fact everything about the X1 was style over functionality and the reason I sold it and switched to the N900 was because it seemed to fix these problems.

Thinner is better:
It really isn't. I do love my iPod Touch for being the ideal screen/device size vs pocket-ability but I find it far too thin to handle at times. Many times I have come close to dropping it because its so thin and light.

Multi-touch:
You ever tried doing multi-touch actions when you only have one hand free? Its a lot easier to do the clockwise/counter-clockwise motion the N900 uses than mutli-touch so once portrait mode works in the browser, it will kick the iPod/iPhones *** for one handed usage.

After using the iPod Touch extensively I find mostly I use it portrait. Wait, isn't that a negative for the N900? Perhaps for now, but I find also that I do not use multi-touch for the same reason so one of the biggest selling points of competing devices is null and void.

So overall, devices like the Droid do not seem so brilliant anymore, at least to me.

bugelrex

10-31-2009, 11:26 AM

How easily? Any calculations or projects?

Look at how Nokia released the n95 NAM model. Its essentially the same size as the original n95 but with BL-6F 1200 mAh which is slighly larger battery instead of the BL-5F 950 mAh.

If Nokia can squeeze the BP-4L into the E71 and n97 (which doesn't hold the stylus) then I'm sure the Nokia engineers could have achieved this.

GunnerzMate

10-31-2009, 11:33 AM

If you're one of those people that can't go along using only a virtual keyboard, then thickness shouldn't be a problem. I just can't see myself constantly typing on a touch screen keyboard, can't stand those things. I much prefer having a thicker phone but with a full QWERTY keyboard, and the N900's keyboard look quite nice.

sjgadsby

10-31-2009, 11:59 AM

Oh one more thing

SIM card slot

GeneralAntilles

10-31-2009, 12:07 PM

-Ditto for at least some of the lens and camera module (and do we really know that the Nokia's module is bigger than the one in the Droid?).

According to all the previews I've seen it's certainly a better one.

But seriously, perhaps the N900 just isn't Nokia's best engineering effort. As I said above, I read somewhere (can't remember where) that it was really conceived orginally as more of a developers platform than a consumer device.

Judging by build quality, I'd disagree heavily with you. Thinks are really packed in internally and it's quite solid.

MrGrim

10-31-2009, 12:36 PM

I just remembered that i study electronics. And in class i learned that you can easily pack components together, but you may have the unpleasant surprise of having a huge heat build-up (no space in between = next to 0 ventilation), with results varying in fun-ness from a strange sensation in hands (warm plastic casing) to frying the device. So remember kids, tighter isn't always better! Leave some breathing space!

c0rt3x

10-31-2009, 12:46 PM

McChicken

10-31-2009, 01:13 PM

Sorry, I had a N900 on pre-order since way back, but the thruth:

IT IS A BRICK !

and approx +50 grams to be perfect IMO

just my 2 cents

jessi3k3

10-31-2009, 02:36 PM

Overclocking FTW! ;)

Not really, as there was even a dedicated mention at the Maemo Summit not to keep the device running at 600 Mhz constantly or else it will smoke. That's not even overclocking!

Funny that the Open Pandora can be clocked up to 800+ Mhz :p, but of course i'd imagine it has more room to spare and has a better chipset.

GeneralAntilles

10-31-2009, 02:40 PM

Funny that the Open Pandora can be clocked up to 800+ Mhz :p, but of course i'd imagine it has more room to spare and has a better chipset.

The OMAP3530s have only had the necessary silicon improvements to run at 720MHz very recently. The earlier overclocking tests were on silicon very similar to the OMAP3430. The Pandora and the N900 can both be overclocked fairly high, but don't expect the chip to last very long in that state. :)

cb474

10-31-2009, 05:40 PM

Judging by build quality, I'd disagree heavily with you. Thinks are really packed in internally and it's quite solid.

Then how do you explain that the N97 has all of the same internal hardware features, plus a more complex sliding mechanism and a larger battery, and is 2mm thinner and has 20% less volume? (And the N97-mini is even smaller still with almost all of the same features and is 4mm thinner.) Does the extra 24 Gb of memory, the infrared port, and the stylus, even with a smaller battery, really require 20% more volume?

I'm not saying the N900 isn't well engineered in terms of durability and usability. I'm just suggesting that Nokia may not have been making their biggest effort to make the N900 as small/thin as possible. Once again, as I said above, I read that the N900 was originally conceived more as a developer's platform than a consumer device, so why expend a lot of effort and cost on engineering the slickest/smallest physical design?

unkno

10-31-2009, 05:41 PM

I would assume that the Pandora has a more elaborate cooling system (heatsinks) due to its size in comparison to the N900. Better cooling system = higher clock speed maintained without burning up

mikec

10-31-2009, 05:49 PM

Sorry, I had a N900 on pre-order since way back, but the thruth:

IT IS A BRICK !

and approx +50 grams to be perfect IMO

just my 2 cents

Is that a Metric Brick or Imperial Brick?

Mike C

nuknuk

10-31-2009, 05:50 PM

Hey chicks like the thick.

mikec

10-31-2009, 05:52 PM

Then how do you explain that the N97 has all of the same internal hardware features, plus a more complex sliding mechanism and a larger battery, and is 2mm thinner and has 20% less volume? (And the N97-mini is even smaller still with almost all of the same features and is 4mm thinner.) Does the extra 24 Gb of memory, the infrared port, and the stylus, even with a smaller battery, really require 20% more volume?

I'm not saying the N900 isn't well engineered in terms of durability and usability. I'm just suggesting that Nokia may not have been making their biggest effort to make the N900 as small/thin as possible. Once again, as I said above, I read that the N900 was originally conceived more as a developer's platform than a consumer device, so why expend a lot of effort and cost on engineering the slickest/smallest physical design?

The N97 is in no way comparable. Much lower res screen and lower performance processor no?

Mike C

MrGrim

10-31-2009, 05:52 PM

r0eladn

10-31-2009, 05:53 PM

GeneralAntilles

10-31-2009, 05:58 PM

just wanted to add that the thickness of this device makes it into a real nerd-device.

Funny, none of the normally people I've shown it to has complained about the thickness.

mikec

10-31-2009, 05:58 PM

gotta say sorry for not reading the entire thread.

just wanted to add that the thickness of this device makes it into a real nerd-device.

i'd rather not see the camera and kickstand and see it drop 5-8mm in FATNESS if that would be possible. although on the other hand i have to say that i did see a very nice video captured by the n900. just hope it can record in mpeg not 3gp the converting shouldnt be a users problem in my oppinion.

i'm buying it myself nonetheless just my 2 cents.

Thats one of these then

http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=31810&highlight=nerd

The thread was originally how come the Droid is so much thinner, and the reason is its an apple and the N900 is an orange if you see what I mean

Mike C

RevdKathy

10-31-2009, 06:08 PM

Is it only nerds who want decent cameras? What do nerds have to photograph?

I know the world is obsessed with ultra-slim in women, but when it cat-walk anorexic become the essential for phones?

sk299

10-31-2009, 06:13 PM

I know this may not necessarily be the case here but and i cant remember the exact example but one of the proto engine management systems i used to work with was recalled and redesigned and it came back bigger.

They said that it grew because although the all of the components were the same, the board was redesigned to allow for a more logical signal flow and this actually improved the performance of the device.

This may be completely irrelivent but it this example just came to mind when i read this thread. Only speculating but perhaps something simular is being implamented to maybe reduce noise between components and increase efficency.

r0eladn

10-31-2009, 06:24 PM

@mikec

hmm i don't see what you mean.

for the record, i definetly fit into the nerd category.

intelligence is there, but i stick it all in my obsession, which is a dead-ending psychological spiral of social ineptitude.
so that must mean that i definetly am a nerd.

@revdkathy

when THE moment is there, being able to capture it. (the= undefined)

Jack6428

10-31-2009, 07:23 PM

Speaking as somebody who actually has access to a device, removing the stylus would not have provided enough room for the BP-4L. :)

Exactly. I would miss the stylus. It´s good to have it included, despite the fact the screen is very sensitive. If it were thicker, then maybe it would make a difference, but not when it is long and thin.

GeraldKo

10-31-2009, 07:47 PM

As far as what's in the N900 and what isn't -- as opposed to whether a smaller package could have been engineered to contain the same features at equal quality -- this is really the same discussion as the many we had pre-announcement of the N900. Some people want to do away with the stylus, some want more battery capacity, I would gladly dump the camera and speakers to make a smaller and lighter package, many of us wish Nokia had used a 4.1"+ screen, etc.

Hopefully, in the future, there will be more concurrent Maemo devices and we'll each get variations closer to what we want.

cb474

10-31-2009, 09:10 PM

The N97 is in no way comparable. Much lower res screen and lower performance processor no?

Mike C

Nope. I guess it's the A8 Cortex system instead of the ARM11. IIRC, it's bigger

The extra thickness of the N900 is in the bottom part of the slide that has the keyboard in it. The top parts with the screens are the same thickness on the N97 and N900.

Is the higher performance processor so much bigger to account for a 20% volume difference from the N97? Even though the N97 has a larger battery and a more complex sliding mechanism? There are things that are bigger in the N97 too. To me it just doesn't add up to accounting for a 20% volume difference on the two devices.

It seems to me like people have just decided that the N900 could not possibly have been otherwise. Nokia in its divine and infallible wisdom made the only design they could have possibly made, with the given components, and all things are prefect, because it is the best of all possible worlds.

Don't get me wrong either. I like the N900. I don't care about the thickness as far as handling the device goes. It seems more like a concern for pocketability, since this is after all supposed to be a phone. But I am curious why it's so thick, when other Nokia devices with extremely similar components and some larger components are considerably smaller and thinner. All of the reasons people have offered so far are pretty easy to discount.

bugelrex

10-31-2009, 09:16 PM

The extra thickness of the N900 is in the bottom part of the slide that has the keyboard in it. The top parts with the screens are the same thickness on the N97 and N900.

Is the higher performance processor so much bigger to account for a 20% volume difference from the N97? Even though the N97 has a larger battery and a more complex sliding mechanism? There are things that are bigger in the N97 too. To me it just doesn't add up to accounting for a 20% volume difference on the two devices.

It seems to me like people have just decided that the N900 could not possibly have been otherwise. Nokia in its divine and infallible wisdom made the only design they could have possibly made, with the given components, and all things are prefect, because it is the best of all possible worlds.

Don't get me wrong either. I like the N900. I don't care about the thickness as far as handling the device goes. It seems more like a concern for pocketability, since this is after supposed to be a phone after all. But I am curious why it's so thick, when other Nokia devices with extremely similar components and some larger components are considerably smaller and thinner.

Unfortunately, this topic is not going to go anywhere on this forum. The fanboy's don't even want to admit that the N900 could be considered 'thick' lol.

GeneralAntilles

10-31-2009, 09:20 PM

The fanboy's don't even want to admit that the N900 could be considered 'thick' lol.

Such an easy way to quickly dismiss an opposing argument. Attitudes like this are why discussions can't go anywhere. :)

Texrat

10-31-2009, 09:26 PM

Look at how Nokia released the n95 NAM model. Its essentially the same size as the original n95 but with BL-6F 1200 mAh which is slighly larger battery instead of the BL-5F 950 mAh.

If Nokia can squeeze the BP-4L into the E71 and n97 (which doesn't hold the stylus) then I'm sure the Nokia engineers could have achieved this.

If the stylus was the one thing that kept a bigger battery out of the N900, I'm betting it would have been sacrificed.

r0eladn

10-31-2009, 09:33 PM

If the stylus was the one thing that kept a bigger battery out of the N900, I'm betting it would have been sacrificed.

yes. replaced by a toothpick. like a swiss army knife.

what is the physical keyboard wasnt mechanic but electronic. it couldve been thinner.

Alex Atkin UK

10-31-2009, 09:50 PM

Unfortunately, this topic is not going to go anywhere on this forum. The fanboy's don't even want to admit that the N900 could be considered 'thick' lol.

Funnily enough I do not own an N900 yet so cannot possibly comment if its thick or not. You cannot tell just from photos and information about the dimensions how it ACTUALLY feels in your hands/pocket.

yes. replaced by a toothpick. like a swiss army knife.

what is the physical keyboard wasnt mechanic but electronic. it couldve been thinner.

What a horrible idea though.

One of my big complaints about the Xperia X1 was problems with the mechanical keyboard not having enough tactile feedback and when it did, the buttons did not always register so it was misleading. I prefer my keys to have a definite click so you know it registered your key press, you can type quicker then.

Laughing Man

10-31-2009, 10:57 PM

n900 =/= thick (to me at least)

Nintendo DS = thick

maven1975

11-01-2009, 12:01 AM

As long as the battery life is better than my Palm Pre (Sprint) I will be satisfied.

I was not going to jump on the N900 because of the lack of 3G coverage where I live. However, with the recent plan changes/price drops at T-Mobile, I can live without 3G at home because I use Wifi there.

Cant wait to get my hands on my N900. It has been a horrible experience with the Palm Pre as I came fro the iPhone before that. Not saying the iPhone is the best, but it kills the Pre in all areas. I have also been very depressed with Palms upgrades, build quality and support.

I will miss the Pre's universal search capability. Does Nokia/Maemo have plans to incorporate this into the N900?

LurkerX

11-01-2009, 01:39 AM

Cant wait to get my hands on my N900. It has been a horrible experience with the Palm Pre as I came fro the iPhone before that. Not saying the iPhone is the best, but it kills the Pre in all areas. I have also been very depressed with Palms upgrades, build quality and support.

Sorry, I just have to disagree. I just switched from a 30 day trial of the Pre to the iPhone, and I really, really miss the Pre.

Multitasking alone makes it worlds above the iPhone to me. I also miss the physical keyboard, and better mail handling. I had zero issue with build quality or support. I want to try the N900, but if I don't like it, it's back to the Pre for me. The iPhone is definitely being returned.

maven1975

11-01-2009, 01:31 AM

I have had FIVE Pre's , three of them died because the headphone jack failed and locked it into speakerphone mode. One of them just up and died. Seriously poor quality for these days. I do like the Pre's form factor, but the battery life is horrid.

I also find the gestures absolutely awesome. Multitasking is great, but the Pre has lag issues that are well documented. If they would just use the damn hardware thats inside the phone (GPU), it would help offload tasks and free up the CPU to do other things.

Honestly, while the iPhone doesn't multitask like the Pre, about the only way the Pre uses multitasking well is when you use Pandora and Nav at the same time. Even then, the Pre lags beyond acceptable levels when this is done.

The browser does allow you to have multiple cards up at the same time, but Safari has multiple pages as well. Cards are nice, but you still have to switch between them. And don't get me started on the Calendar.. absolutely unacceptable lag.

Palms App store will remain a joke until they refine the SDK. Hopefully, with the recent acquisition of a former AMD graphics engineer, the SDK will be enhanced in about 6-12 months.

I wanted to believe in Palm, but it seems they are settling in the mass market arena, extremely disappointing those of us thinking they would push the envelope.

IDK, iPhone is a great device because of its simplistic design. However Apple is too controlling with the device and the OS is showing its age.

The Pre has/had serious potential, (Form Factor, Cards). Palm, with its lack of attention to WebOS, is doing everything to kill interest in the platform. Sure this is not intentional, but its giving the other guys time to 1up them before they get it right.

Nokia is new to me. I have never owned one of their phones, but I seriously look forward to my N900.

Please don't take this as an attack, but after almost five months with the Pre, I know the good, bad and ugly.

mikec

11-01-2009, 05:33 AM

Unfortunately, this topic is not going to go anywhere on this forum. The fanboy's don't even want to admit that the N900 could be considered 'thick' lol.

Thick is relative.

I have not yet heard any evidence based reasoning on the implication that Nokia did NOT do as good a job as they could have done, other than comparisons with other devices that seem to have similar capability, which on closer inspection are not similar at all.

Don't get me wrong, I would love the N900 to be more pocketable. But NOT if its at the expense of the great features it has, features where YMMV.

Mike C

archzai

11-01-2009, 07:44 AM

I feel no one has complained about the size yet because it's hard to get a real feel without holding the real thing. Besides, videos dont give a good idea of the true thickness of the device. 19mm is always 2 cm, which is pretty damn thick.

I'm just a bit worried if the device is going to come off looking awkward because of the thickness. I sort of want this phone to become my everyday device too, but I'm afraid the device will bulge out a lot from my work pants or evening go-out jeans.

mikec

11-01-2009, 08:19 AM

If you want to put this into perspective.

N95 8gb is 99x55x21mm
N900 is 110x59.8x18(19.55)mm
My Wallet is 110x85x30mm:D

Both the N95 and Wallet have been in my jeans for a number of years.

Mike C

McChicken

11-01-2009, 09:38 AM

Unfortunately, this topic is not going to go anywhere on this forum. The fanboy's don't even want to admit that the N900 could be considered 'thick' lol.

it is funny how "one eyed" people can get when they are a "fan" of something.

McChicken

11-01-2009, 09:42 AM

I

Both the N95 and Wallet have been in my jeans for a number of years.

Mike C

Could not resist:
Mike you must only have HARD CASH, as you compare a leather wallet to a phone :)

bugelrex

11-01-2009, 09:46 AM

If you want to put this into perspective.

N95 8gb is 99x55x21mm
N900 is 110x59.8x18(19.55)mm
My Wallet is 110x85x30mm:D

Both the N95 and Wallet have been in my jeans for a number of years.

Mike C

I also had the n95 in my pocket for a year, it was just bearable. The n900 (180g) is also 50% heavier than the n95 (120g) which makes a big difference too. I also have an E71 and then realized just how thick the n95 really was.

I have held the n900 in the store, in the year 2009 it is thick and the weight doesn't help. I'm willing to put up with the thickness because of the features but I'm sure many other people will not.

mikec

11-01-2009, 09:48 AM

Could not resist:
Mike you must only have HARD CASH, as you compare a leather wallet to a phone :)

McChicken does the bulge my wallet makes, make me more attractive:D

by the way how on earth did you choose a screen name like Mc Chicken .....or should I not ask?:)

titan

11-01-2009, 09:53 AM

it is funny how "one eyed" people can get when they are a "fan" of something.

I'm sure they would also love that neat Nokia 900 phone:
http://www.dialaphone.co.uk/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/04-mobira_cityman_lowres.jpg ;-)

mikec

11-01-2009, 09:57 AM

I also had the n95 in my pocket for a year, it was just bearable. The n900 (180g) is also 50% heavier than the n95 (120g) which makes a big difference too. I also have an E71 and then realized just how thick the n95 really was.

I have held the n900 in the store, in the year 2009 it is thick and the weight doesn't help. I'm willing to put up with the thickness because of the features but I'm sure many other people will not.

I'm sure we all want it smaller and lighter, but then my ipod, my camera, my E71, my tomtom and all the accompanying cables and chargers will all get left out of the bag/coat/belt clip when the N900 arrives. So for me the width seems small YMMV.

Mike C

bugelrex

11-01-2009, 10:04 AM

I'm sure we all want it smaller and lighter, but then my ipod, my camera, my E71, my tomtom and all the accompanying cables and chargers will all get left out of the bag/coat/belt clip when the N900 arrives. So for me the width seems small YMMV.

Mike C

I think the first few months you'll still be carrying some of those extra items:
- camera. Need for decent night/flash shots
- tomtom. OVI maps is no where near capable. Read this experience from a Maemo developer

http://mer-l-in.blogspot.com/2009/10/ovi-maps-really-is-this-best-we-can-do.html

- might need to carry an extra battery. Hard to say at the moment

Alex Atkin UK

11-01-2009, 10:07 AM

Surely the extra weight actually makes your hands more stable when taking photos!

Generally I find the lighter something is the easier it is for you to drop it. Also as I said before, I hate thin devices as they also are easier to drop whereas 2cm is a decent amount to grip on especially as its going to be half that when they keyboard is slid out.

Granted the heavier something is the more likely it will get damaged when dropping it, but if it makes you less likely to drop it in the first place I would argue it all works out in the end.

I admit though, I could have lived with a slightly larger device to fit a 4.2" screen in it in which case it probably would have been slightly thinner too. But I managed with my HTC Wizard which was 108 x 58 x 24 mm and most of the awkwardness about that was not its size, it was too round and possibly a tiny bit too thick. Although I have to admit I am stunned at the thought the N900 is HEAVIER than that device as I considered that a brick.

There are other positives about a big heavy device though. I never had to double check my pocket to be sure I hadn't left it somewhere. There was also no risk of it falling out of my pocket when cycling due to the weight and size. I hate super light devices as there is always that few seconds of panic when I think its fallen out until I check and realise its still there. Also the vibration should be more noticeable, I often miss calls due to not hearing or feeling the device ringing which I suspect will not be an issue with the N900 as the size allows both louder ringing and more noticeable vibration.

MrGrim

11-01-2009, 10:10 AM

Am i the only one who, upon first seeing the n900 held in someone's hand (alas, no toy for me yet!) thought: "now how the heck am i going to handle something that small?"
Yes, miniaturization is nice, but our (at least my) hands can't get any smaller. Until shrinking/unshrinking technology appears, i'll be glad to compromise pocket room for the "i'm really holding something" feeling

mikec

11-01-2009, 10:12 AM

I think the first few months you'll still be carrying some of those extra items:
- camera. Need for decent night/flash shots
- tomtom. OVI maps is no where near capable. Read this experience from a Maemo developer

http://mer-l-in.blogspot.com/2009/10/ovi-maps-really-is-this-best-we-can-do.html

- might need to carry an extra battery. Hard to say at the moment

OK you've worn me out, I've canceled my N900 Pre-Order:D

Mike C

Benson

11-01-2009, 05:15 PM

I feel no one has complained about the size yet because it's hard to get a real feel without holding the real thing. Besides, videos dont give a good idea of the true thickness of the device. 19mm is always 2 cm, which is pretty damn thick.

Maybe that's true for a lot of people, but my N810 is already 20mm thick (I have the Mugen extended battery in it), and I have no problem EDCing it -- the thickness is a complete non-issue. Granted, the N900 will be even thicker if/when they come out with an extended battery for it, but I know the stock thickness is a non-issue for me.

I think the first few months you'll still be carrying some of those extra items:
- camera. Need for decent night/flash shotsMeh. If the N900's camera is as good as it's cracked up to be, I certainly will ditch my camera. (Well, I actually won't replace the camera I broke months ago, but didn't replace while I was unemployed.) A good 18650 flashlight is smaller than any decent camera, and with a decent diffuser, should have no trouble on anything but action shots -- which always sucked at even with flash. Besides, being practical-minded, I EDC 2-5 flashlights on my person with or without the camera, and if I'm out at night, I have a flashlight or spotlight not farther than my bike or truck, respectively, either of which is brighter than most people have ever seen.

- tomtom. OVI maps is no where near capable.Well, when I get my N900, I aim to use Maemo Mapper anyway -- it already suits my needs perfectly, except for being a bit CPU heavy on the N8x0. OTOH, the screen size could be an issue unless I can rig up a steering wheel mount bracket on my truck (maybe swap my handlebar mount between bicycle and truck); dash-mounted in a full-size pickup is the one case where the smaller size could be an obstacle.

- might need to carry an extra battery. Hard to say at the momentNot hard, for me. Unless Mugen has an upgrade available at launch, , I'll definitely need one. Not necessarily because it would run out, but because I can't stand letting it be more than 2/3 empty. ;)

eean

11-01-2009, 05:30 PM

If the stylus was the one thing that kept a bigger battery out of the N900, I'm betting it would have been sacrificed.
Have you seen any thumb-friendly websites recently? Really a stylus is a must for any device that wants a decent web experience. Its worth 15min. of battery life.

Though personally I don't end up using it much, but use my fingernails when I want precision. My grandpa would actually keep a point on one of his fingernails when he used his Palm. But you can't expect everyone to do this. :D

bugelrex

11-01-2009, 05:32 PM

Here's a review that just came out that discusses the thickness a little (see the feedback comments also)

http://www.ubergizmo.com/15/archives/2009/11/nokia-n900-review.html

vzontini

11-01-2009, 09:15 PM

Good link.

I think the points on size and weight are valid. One of the complaints the Droid is getting is that it is heavy and that is at 169g. The N900 is 181g.

Palm 755p 160g or 5.6oz
Droid 169g or 6.0oz
N900 181g or 6.4oz
iPhone 135g or 4.8oz

Laughing Man

11-01-2009, 09:29 PM

I guess it's what people are use too >.>

Nintendo DS (makes all other hardware look like a joke portable wise
# Weight: 300 grams (9.7 oz).
# Physical dimensions: 148.7 mm x 84.7 mm x 28.9 mm (5.85 in x 3.33 in x 1.13 in).

And then there's the original Gameboy.. >.>

Now if I was holding it up to my ear as a phone I would be concerned with its weight. But otherwise it doesn't bother me so I can't imagine the n900 would. Though we'll see if holding it up to your ear for say 30 minutes makes your arm tired.

Bratag

11-01-2009, 10:15 PM

C'mon that stylus is pretty long.
I'm pretty sure they didn't design the phone and found so much empty space that they said.. lets stick the stylus in there!

Yes because when engineers look at designing a device the first thing they do is design it around the stylus. Seriously man? I have yet to see a posting from you that isnt in some way bagging the n900 - WTF are you still doing here?

bugelrex

11-01-2009, 10:27 PM

Yes because when engineers look at designing a device the first thing they do is design it around the stylus. Seriously man? I have yet to see a posting from you that isnt in some way bagging the n900 - WTF are you still doing here?

I'm waiting for my pre-order like everyone else. And when I get it, I'll write a few free apps for it. I like the device, but I'm no fanboy and will point out negatives.

What are you doing here?

Bratag

11-01-2009, 10:31 PM

I'm waiting for my pre-order like everyone else. And when I get it, I'll write a few free apps for it. I like the device, but I'm no fanboy and will point out negatives.

What are you doing here?

At the moment reading the half dozen threads where you point out every single flaw you can possibly find in the n900. You could of course have be using the time to download the SDK/emulator and start coding as I have, but that would take away valuable bagging time.

Honestly though - you are really suggesting that they designed the dimensions of the n900 around the stylus?

Texrat

11-01-2009, 10:53 PM

Have you seen any thumb-friendly websites recently? Really a stylus is a must for any device that wants a decent web experience. Its worth 15min. of battery life

zoom zoom zoom...

Laughing Man

11-01-2009, 10:58 PM

Texrat, I don't know whether to laugh or groan at that terrible reference. =P

Texrat

11-01-2009, 11:52 PM

You could always Thank. :D

RevdKathy

11-02-2009, 03:28 AM

I'm working on the principle that if the n900 is a tight squeeze into my back pocket, the solution is simple. Lose some thickness off my butt. I can do that without reducing any functionality in either n900 or backside, In fact, it might improve my form factor. :p

Crim

11-02-2009, 05:25 AM

Phonearena has a cool tool to compare the N900 with other phones and objects http://www.phonearena.com/htmls/phonecompareimages.php?id=4008&

McChicken

11-02-2009, 06:23 AM

by the way how on earth did you choose a screen name like Mc Chicken .....or should I not ask?:)

Ohhh...McChicken..the story is way long and really out of topic...will someday put the story on my profile...somethings you learn to live with....LOL

pelago

11-02-2009, 08:48 AM

Who phones with the phone to the ear anyway?!

99% of the people I ever see using their phones.

Laughing Man

11-02-2009, 12:50 PM

The problem is remembering to bring headphones, I don't use my phone that often, and if I do it's usually for short bursts (10-15 minutes). It's rare for me to go past the 30 minute mark (by the time if I'm near my bluetooth headphones I'll just go grab them).

Though now that the n900 supports AD2P I'll be bringing my bluetooth headphones with me more often.

GeneralAntilles

11-02-2009, 01:13 PM

1: it's not healthy to have that radiation next to your ear all the time(especially people who use it A LOT).

Do you also avoid walking under powerlines?

Arguably it's not healthy to have it next to somewhere else all of the time either, but neither of these claims are supported by scientific evidence.

Den in USA

11-02-2009, 01:16 PM

Do you also avoid walking under powerlines?

Arguably it's not healthy to have it next to somewhere else all of the time either, but neither of these claims are supported by scientific evidence.

I was going to say something also, but was afraid to contradict "GOD".

MrGrim

11-02-2009, 02:36 PM

Dear God (pun intended ;) ), maybe you should pick a screen-name more appropriate to your mortal vulnerabilities
Also, i'm curious where you keep your phone while you wisely use the headphones to avoid radiation. Talking through a phone that is in another room is kinda strange
I remember having lots of laughs seeing people use a particularly *****ic model of headphones, which they had to hold up with their hands (!) to make themselves heard over the badly-positioned microphone. Talk about hands-free. Hurray for off-topic!

Texrat

11-02-2009, 02:57 PM

Arguably it's not healthy to have it next to somewhere else all of the time either, but neither of these claims are supported by scientific evidence.

Actually, yeah, they are. The problem is that not all tests have been conducted with the same protocols and so there's dispute over what the positive results mean.

Nokia has in fact taken heed to testing that shows some adverse effects (note: this subject is not limited to cancer) due to extended cell phone usage and issued cautionary statements in that regard.

GeneralAntilles

11-02-2009, 03:36 PM

Actually, yeah, they are. The problem is that not all tests have been conducted with the same protocols and so there's dispute over what the positive results mean.

Scientific is the operative term. :)

Texrat

11-02-2009, 03:38 PM

Scientific is the operative term. :)

I stand by my statement, including that qualifier.

Differing protocols and/or conclusions among experiments does not mean any were unscientific.

EDIT: Nokia has acknowledged the scientific basis of at least some European testing.

rm42

11-02-2009, 03:40 PM

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/2299987/cell_phones_may_increase_brain_cancer.html

Edit:
Here is a better link:
http://www.switched.com/2009/10/27/cell-phones-cause-cancer-says-world-health-organization/

Texrat

11-02-2009, 04:46 PM

Unfortunately that issue tends to be too political.

But to tie it all together... can we assume that device thickness helps prevent ill effects?

:D

RevdKathy

11-02-2009, 04:50 PM

Unfortunately that issue tends to be too political.

But to tie it all together... an we assume that device thickness helps prevent ill effects?

:D

No, but presumably keeping it in the back pocket (thickness permitting) will reduce the risk of brain cancer. For most of us, anyway. ;)

Den in USA

11-02-2009, 04:52 PM

No, but presumably keeping it in the back pocket (thickness permitting) will reduce the risk of brain cancer. For most of us, anyway. ;)

Butt wouldn't that increase the risk of colon cancer?

Laughing Man

11-02-2009, 05:11 PM

Nah, skin cancer. You see it has to go through all that skin to get to your colon. (not a jab, honest).

attila77

11-02-2009, 05:11 PM

That depends on butt size.

mikec

11-02-2009, 05:42 PM

Am I thick or has this thread gone off course:D

Alex Atkin UK

11-02-2009, 07:23 PM

Oh, jeeze, did I just cause everyone to hyperventilate over my comment? *giggle*

I keep my phone in an anti-radiation case, while using my headphones :-) tyvm

http://www.techfieber.de/photos/album/72157608673429868/photo/3005521934/mobile-phones-anti-radiation-leather-case.html

http://www.alibaba.com/product-free/105309790/Anti_Radiation_Mobile_Case.html

Surely if that worked you wouldn't get a signal as it would need to be designed on a per-phone basis according to where the device has its antenna.

Also, who in their right mind keeps their phone in their back pocket? That is asking for it to be either nicked or you will (sooner or later) forget and sit on it.

I must admit I prefer to keep mine in my inside coat pocket but mostly use it for short bursts without headphones. I do not like the fact that means its near my chest but its safer all around. I tend to put it in my pocket with the screen facing my chest figuring the antenna is on the back so its then optimum reception and pointing away from me. (they do design these things to transfer less radiation towards your head theoretically) That also does bring us on topic as quite probably yes, the thicker the device the less radiation is escaping out of the front of it. Although you will still be cooking your hands when you hold it. :p

cb474

11-02-2009, 08:44 PM

Yeah, I don't really belive the anti-radiation case could work either. The radiation is the signal. I.e. eletromagnetic radiation.

Electromagnetic radiation (often abbreviated E-M radiation or EMR) is a ubiquitous phenomenon that takes the form of self-propagating waves in a vacuum or in matter. It consists of electric and magnetic field components which oscillate in phase perpendicular to each other and perpendicular to the direction of energy propagation. Electromagnetic radiation is classified into several types according to the frequency of its wave; these types include (in order of increasing frequency and decreasing wavelength): radio waves, microwaves, terahertz radiation, infrared radiation, visible light, ultraviolet radiation, X-rays and gamma rays. A small and somewhat variable window of frequencies is sensed by the eyes of various organisms; this is what we call the visible spectrum, or light. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_radiation

If the case kept the "radiation"/signal from "getting out" then your cell phone wouldn't work. It wouldn't be able to communicate with the tower. And it couldn't just block the signal one way either. It would block the incoming signal too. So you'd have no reception at all. Perhaps somehow the antenna could be left unblocked, as Alan Atkin UK suggests, but that would mean as he says that the case would have to be custom designed for the specific phone model and it's antenna position. And it seems to me that would also defeat the purpose of the case (once the signal gets out, you're getting irradiated).

RevdKathy

11-03-2009, 03:26 AM

I find it reassuring that God won't be killed by the radiation from His cellphone.

Blooming heck!!!! Now people are tweeting that n900 causes cancer!!! For crying out loud, will you people watch what you say? n900 uses the SAME SYSTEM as any other phone!!!!

omniscy

11-03-2009, 05:15 AM

MrGrim

11-03-2009, 05:33 AM

Why not wear an aluminum hat?

Actually, that really would give radiation protection for the head. As for the casing, as Alex very well pointed out, it simply can't work. The laws of physics don't allow it to. But then again, we are talking about God here...
Kathy, most people will be scared idiots whenever they have the opportunity. Just let them be, or better yet, have a laugh at them (no god, that's not related to you ;) )

RevdKathy

11-03-2009, 05:36 AM

Actually, that really would give radiation protection for the head. As for the casing, as Alex very well pointed out, it simply can't work. The laws of physics don't allow it to. But then again, we are talking about God here...
Kathy, most people will be scared idiots whenever they have the opportunity. Just let them be, or better yet, have a laugh at them (no god, that's not related to you ;) )

I was more worried about damaging publicity for the n900 crashing sales and Nokia's stock market count because of a little paranoia here.

They're probably listening to us through the powerpoint holes in the walls...

(Should that be a lead helmet, rather than aluminium? Just for real safety. Though it might weight a bit...)

qwerty12

11-03-2009, 12:21 PM

I'm wondering why God would fear some minor waves... I am just human and I could not give a **** about them.

Andre Klapper

11-03-2009, 12:22 PM

I normally have my collection of cellphones always near to my balls. It's way safer and also cheaper than contraception, and it makes me look quite potent, which I am not.

RevdKathy

11-03-2009, 12:24 PM

I normally have my collection of cellphones always near to my balls. It's way safer and also cheaper than contraception, and it makes me look quite potent, which I am not.

That might be because you kep your cellphone down there.

Imagine the disappointment of the lady fooled by your codpiece? You'd better have some good games installed on those phones!

Texrat

11-03-2009, 12:47 PM

I was more worried about damaging publicity for the n900 crashing sales and Nokia's stock market count because of a little paranoia here.

The paranoia actually seems to be on twitter...

RevdKathy

11-03-2009, 12:49 PM

The paranoia actually seems to be on twitter...

Indeed, but one can only guess they caught it from here. Most of the twitter information on n900 seems to originate here. In particular dates. ;)

MrGrim

11-03-2009, 01:07 PM

Indeed, but one can only guess they caught it from here. Most of the twitter information on n900 seems to originate here. In particular dates. ;)

Well, that's easy. Just spam lots of "oh, look how safe and harmless the n900 is!" threads. That should easily convince the mass of gullible ****ters

bugelrex

11-07-2009, 03:31 PM

Check out what the 'average joe' is saying about the Droid form factor (thickness and weight). I can only imagine the response when they see the n900

http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10392456-1.html

..."While reviewers have praised the Droid's software, the physical design of the device is a bit clunky. And the device itself is heavier than many other phones in its class. For this reason, among others, Patel said he'd take the weekend to think over his Droid purchase.
"I really don't want to be carrying around a 100-pound block in my pocket," he said. "I can already imagine it weighing down the pocket of my cargo shorts in the summer. So I have to really think about whether I want to lug this thing around for two years."...

Bratag

11-07-2009, 06:54 PM

twoboxen

11-07-2009, 06:58 PM

bugelrex

11-07-2009, 07:04 PM

Yep - fortunately unlike you and your continual nitpicking, the rest of us get round this problem by NOT GIVING A RATS *** about the average Joe. Let them buy their own goddamn device, I am buying this one for me.

Of course, the only people who should buy the N900 are unix guru's and hardcore deveoper's, much like yourself. Its not like you still live with your parents and work minimum wage, right?

If the n900 does not sell well, it could easily be shelved by Nokia bean counters. We need the n900 to appeal to average joes for long term success.

Bratag

11-07-2009, 07:35 PM

Of course, the only people who should buy the N900 are unix guru's and hardcore deveoper's, much like yourself. Its not like you still live with your parents and work minimum wage, right?

If the n900 does not sell well, it could easily be shelved by Nokia bean counters. We need the n900 to appeal to average joes for long term success.

And if it does get shelved we will of course have to send our devices back to Nokia for destruction, those are the rules .... oh wait no they arent. The device will still be a wonder of technology and because it is in fact for the most part a community supported device it will continue to grow and get better.

But look I have had this conversation with you before and again I say - why in the name of hell are you still here. Honestly every goddamn post you make is either derogatory towards the device, or comparing it with something else, or asking for the umpteenth time "WHAAA WHAT ABOUT AVERAGE JOE".

Seriously by a goddamn iPhone already, you cant get more idiot, I mean average joe, likable than that phone.

On a final note - what the fudge would you have them do about the thickness of the device now 7 days or less before release? Get out their belt sanders and knock a few millimeters off?

Ovek

11-07-2009, 07:35 PM

Laughing Man

11-07-2009, 07:36 PM

Actually Step 5. =P

bugelrex

11-07-2009, 07:53 PM

I don't think Nokia expects the n900 sales to be earth shattering brilliant, remember its "only" step 4... ;)

Its painfully obvious that Symbian cannot compete in 2009, especially after that POS N97. I see Maemo as their last chance before Nokia meet the same fate Palm did with the Palm OS (competitors eating their lunch. Eg Manufacturers going with Android, iphone, Pre)

Maemo success will be measured by it sales, not by the number of fanboys jerking off.

Anyway, now that I only paid $408 + tax (from the Dell sale, Bing CB + 2% creditcard CB) and not $650 + tax, I'm willing to overlook the flaws of thickness and possible battery life. Those who pay $650 have every right to nitpick.

Bratag

11-07-2009, 08:07 PM

Its painfully obvious that Symbian cannot compete in 2009, especially after that POS N97. I see Maemo as their last chance before Nokia meet the same fate Palm did with the Palm OS (competitors eating their lunch. Eg Manufacturers going with Android, iphone, Pre)

Maemo success will be measured by it sales, not by the number of fanboys jerking off.

Anyway, now that I only paid $408 + tax (from the Dell sale, Bing CB + 2% creditcard CB) and not $650 + tax, I'm willing to overlook the flaws of thickness and possible battery life. Those who pay $650 have every right to nitpick.

No they don't see we have this thing called free will. Unless someone is standing behind you with a gun forcing you to purchase the device, you make the decision all by yourself, like a big boy. You choose to take the risk it might not be the device you are looking for and you choose to pay for the device, be it $650 or $6.50. That's called being an adult, you get to wear the big boy pants and occasionally you crap in them.

texaslabrat

11-07-2009, 08:07 PM

Actually Step 5. =P

No, actually step 4.

somedude

11-07-2009, 08:11 PM

yep step 4 of 5.

Fargus

11-07-2009, 08:18 PM

Well excuse me if I'm rude, but anyone who doesn't use headphones is being rather dumb.

1: it's not healthy to have that radiation next to your ear all the time(especially people who use it A LOT).

2: That's what headphones are there for, so you don't have to hold the damn phone all the time & end up with a "sore arm".

sigh.

Regarding the first point: majority of radiation on most phones transmits away from the face of the phone. Putting a wired earpiece in your ear is actually the same as sticking an aerial directly into your ear (bypassing a large portion of the skull that might shield a bit) so the point of safety is debatable.

How many people end up with a sore ear though when they catch the cord on something?

Finally, if you leave a cell phone on and stand in a contained space with no coverage (elevator or metro) then the phone effectively turns the place into a microwave hunting for a cell mast: bit academic then.

Fargus

11-07-2009, 08:29 PM

That might be because you kep your cellphone down there.

Imagine the disappointment of the lady fooled by your codpiece? You'd better have some good games installed on those phones!

That's it: N900 is the male version of the wonderbra!

Now, how long before Twitter starts up about that? lol

texaslabrat

11-07-2009, 08:31 PM

Regarding the first point: majority of radiation on most phones transmits away from the face of the phone. Putting a wired earpiece in your ear is actually the same as sticking an aerial directly into your ear (bypassing a large portion of the skull that might shield a bit) so the point of safety is debatable.

How many people end up with a sore ear though when they catch the cord on something?

Finally, if you leave a cell phone on and stand in a contained space with no coverage (elevator or metro) then the phone effectively turns the place into a microwave hunting for a cell mast: bit academic then.

Well as long as we are being pedantic and all..how many people do you see using wired headphones/headsets these days for voice communication? Maybe it's different where you live, but I can't even remember the last time I did. Bluetooth ftw: eliminates both the "caught wire" and the "aerial in your ear canal issues".

"But wait!" you might say "bluetooth still emits radiation!" Yes, it does..but it is orders of magnitude less than the cell radio (power efficiency is one of it's main reasons for existence, after all) and is not much higher than the environmental background levels you would experience in a conference room where everyone has a crackberry in their hand (a typical bluetooth headset SAR is on the order of 0.001 watts/kg at the ear vs 1.19 watts/kg for the iphone 3G when held to the ear).

Fargus

11-07-2009, 08:40 PM

Well as long as we are being pedantic and all..how many people do you see using wired headphones/headsets these days for voice communication? Maybe it's different where you live, but I can't even remember the last time I did. Bluetooth ftw: eliminates both the "caught wire" and the "aerial in your ear canal issues".

"But wait!" you might say "bluetooth still emits radiation!" Yes, it does..but it is orders of magnitude less than the cell radio (power efficiency is one of it's main reasons for existence, after all) and is not much higher than the environmental background levels you would experience in a conference room where everyone has a crackberry in their hand (a typical bluetooth headset SAR is on the order of 0.001 watts/kg at the ear vs 1.19 watts/kg for the iphone 3G when held to the ear).

As we are talk pedant issues: the original post mentioned wired in the first point and moved onto bluetooth later. As for the number of people: on trains into and around London there are huge numbers, mainly those with music on their phones. This tends to include large numbers of iPhone users so some here might argue that proves the point about dumb though!

The whole issue is really daft though as there is so much electromagnetic radiation in european cities at least that a passive radar system has been proven to work feeding off it. Anyone that seriously thinks sticking their phoone in a jacket is going to save them seriously needs a dose of cynasism. Admittedly it might lower the chance of localised issues.

cb474

11-07-2009, 08:56 PM

As we are talk pedant issues: the original post mentioned wired in the first point and moved onto bluetooth later.

The whole issue is really daft though as there is so much electromagnetic radiation in european cities at least that a passive radar system has been proven to work feeding off it. Anyone that seriously thinks sticking their phoone in a jacket is going to save them seriously needs a dose of cynasism. Admittedly it might lower the chance of localised issues.

I agree about the point that putting a phone in a jacket probably doesn't help.

But the first point, I don't think is right. My understanding is that the electromagnetic radition is most powerful (and harmful) within a very small space near it's source. In the case of a cell phone, this is a sphere about six inches in radius. So the eletromagnetic radition emitted from other further away sources (and beaming all over us from space for that matter) is not of the same nature, nor bears with it the same safety concerns.

Fargus

11-07-2009, 09:08 PM

I agree about the point that putting a phone in a jacket probably doesn't help.

But the first point, I don't think is right. My understanding is that the electromagnetic radition is most powerful (and harmful) within a very small space near it's source. In the case of a cell phone, this is a sphere about six inches in radius. So the eletromagnetic radition emitted from other further away sources (and beaming all over us from space for that matter) is not of the same nature, nor bears with it the same safety concerns.

If you were taking just your own phone into account then yes it would. However, consider a crowded metro, such as the London tube system. studies conducted a couple of years ago showed an horrific level of cellular radiiation compared to on the streets. Cell phones ramping up to full power seeking a mast combined with the hemispherical metal ceilings for coaches had a wonderful effect of concentrating the emitted power to the middle of the carriage.
If you were referring to the passive radar though that is well documented in various papers.

Fargus

11-07-2009, 09:14 PM

Desperately trying to get back on topic...

Maybe the thickness is for secondary use? Paper-weight or door jam?

cb474

11-07-2009, 09:30 PM

If you were taking just your own phone into account then yes it would. However, consider a crowded metro, such as the London tube system. studies conducted a couple of years ago showed an horrific level of cellular radiiation compared to on the streets. Cell phones ramping up to full power seeking a mast combined with the hemispherical metal ceilings for coaches had a wonderful effect of concentrating the emitted power to the middle of the carriage.

Can you provide a link to those studies?

From my understanding that wouldn't produce the kind of radiation that's supposed to pose risks. And I'm wary of a lot of the information out there. Most of what you find on the internet is on real tinfoil hat wearing websites. Either that, or people trying to sell you some sort of protection device that is actually just crap or in some cases actually augments the bodies absorption of electromagnetic radiation.

I'm not trying to minimize the risk. I believe there may be real health risks to cell phone radiation. But there is a huge amount of mis-information out there. And many of the studies are carried out by news organizations or well meaning people, who don't really know what they're doing and get bogus results. The actually well conducted studies are few and far between and just starting to really get done.

daperl

11-07-2009, 10:01 PM

I wouldn't worry about the common mortals. They'll sooner or later die.

Do you and the other immortals rib Jesus about being a zombie? Also, what does Jesus think about Left 4 Dead 2?

RevdKathy

11-08-2009, 03:51 AM

Its painfully obvious that Symbian cannot compete in 2009, especially after that POS N97. I see Maemo as their last chance before Nokia meet the same fate Palm did with the Palm OS (competitors eating their lunch. Eg Manufacturers going with Android, iphone, Pre).

Interesting that Nokia still has the largest share of the smartphone market, easily outstripping even Rim, their nearest competitor, and their chosen smartphone OS is symbian.

I don't think symbian is dead yet by any stretch of the imagination. Nokia's plan is to move symbian down a notch and target it at the slightly less technical/cash-splashing market. People who have never been able to afford a smartphone will jump at it arriving within their price range.

Meanwhile, there's reason to suspect that n900, far from being a failure because 'Average Joe' finds it too think/heavy/complex/whatever, has rather surprised Nokia with its success. And that before it's even shipped.

Will there be people who reject it on grounds of weight of size? Sure there will. People choose their device for a whole bundle of reasons. But there appear to be more than enough who're not put off to ensure that the Final Step is still on track.

And God and All Angels help this place when that release gets delayed. :p

ossipena

11-08-2009, 04:16 AM

I feel no one has complained about the size yet because it's hard to get a real feel without holding the real thing. Besides, videos dont give a good idea of the true thickness of the device. 19mm is always 2 cm, which is pretty damn thick.

I'm just a bit worried if the device is going to come off looking awkward because of the thickness. I sort of want this phone to become my everyday device too, but I'm afraid the device will bulge out a lot from my work pants or evening go-out jeans.

the proto was very sleek. much more smaller than what it appears when reading this thread...

bugelrex

11-08-2009, 06:30 PM

attila77

11-08-2009, 06:48 PM

I won't go into bulkiness, that's a subjective matter. Battery life is bad because a) not all apps are (yet) properly power-optimized and b) it's like a sportscar - it wants to be driven fast and at that point no battery is enough, 1320 vs 1500 would make no serious difference.

- Misty haze in flash photos

a) learn to keep your fingers out of the flash
b) paint the nice blue edge of the slider matte black

Bratag

11-08-2009, 06:59 PM

Here's a (p)review from one of the lucky 300 who got units. Guess he's a iphone lover or not worthy enough to own an n900 since he brought up the battery and thickness/weight as disadvanages..

Disadvantages
--- Poor keyboard layout
--- No user call application
--- Weak battery
-- No tilt function
- Relatively heavy and thick
- Misty haze in flash photos

http://www.mobilecowboys.nl/toestellen/10892
translated:
http://translate.google.com/translate?prev=hp&hl=en&js=y&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mobilecowboys.nl%2Ftoestellen%2 F10892&sl=auto&tl=en&history_state0=

Interesting review. Also interesting that in his review of the Droid he fails to mention ANY of the things pretty much every reviewer has talked about.

Bad Camera.
Bad Battery Life
Flex within the keyboard etc

Once again you have trolled the net to find the one review in (lets say) 30 that has a bad view point - seriously WHY are you buying this phone. ARE you even buying this phone. You are beyond a nay saying whiner, one suspects you may even work for another company the amount of FUD you have been spreading around here.

bugelrex

11-08-2009, 07:07 PM

Once again you have trolled the net to find the one review in (lets say) 30 that has a bad view point - seriously WHY are you buying this phone. ARE you even buying this phone. You are beyond a nay saying whiner, one suspects you may even work for another company the amount of FUD you have been spreading around here.

Don't shoot the messenger. I'm sorry that you're going to spend your entire monthly salary on this phone and it may not turn out to be best phone on earth for the next 3 years and have ZERO flaws.

I am buying this phone but I'm not fanatic enough not to recognize its flaws which I want Nokia to resolve in the next version (Which I will gladly buy even if its only 6 months from now)

Bratag

11-08-2009, 09:00 PM

Don't shoot the messenger. I'm sorry that you're going to spend your entire monthly salary on this phone and it may not turn out to be best phone on earth for the next 3 years and have ZERO flaws.

I am buying this phone but I'm not fanatic enough not to recognize its flaws which I want Nokia to resolve in the next version (Which I will gladly buy even if its only 6 months from now)

Lol - entire months salary. Please.

If the phone doesnt turn out to be the greatest thing in the world (which I am not expecting it to be) I will say "Oh well you take a chance, didnt work out"

My point is you go out of your way to SEE the flaws finding reviews that say what you want them to hear. If you want to piss your money away - send it to me. I will be happy to drink it in the form of cold frosty beverages. If you are idiot enough to buy a phone you obviously do not consider to be a good match for you with "flaws" then ... well then you are IDIOT enough to buy a phone yadda yadda yadda you get where this is going.

You could of course NOT buy the phone. Then you would have your money and still be able to maintain a holier than though attitude of "I told ya so" if the n900 turns out to be a lemon. Think of how much fun that would be for your sad little ego.