I think that Nokia rushed and released N900 with software that miss many functions [Archive] - maemo.org

TAD88

11-27-2009, 10:44 AM

fluido

11-27-2009, 10:46 AM

and If u miss something else in Maemo 5 OS, plz just write it .

It does not make coffee.

:p

noobmonkey

11-27-2009, 10:50 AM

It does not make coffee.

:p
or tea :(... actually, or a vodka and coke either come to think off it... where's the ice dispensing machine?! grrrrrrrrr

optimaxxx

11-27-2009, 10:50 AM

@ TAD88

Who are you?

Exactly, just go and get an iphone, and make my day

Venomrush

11-27-2009, 10:52 AM

These are all software related and can be easily implemented through regular software updates.

FYI
FM Radio receiver program & voice recorder program => available in Extras

lorelei

11-27-2009, 10:52 AM

funny, a few weeks ago everybody and his dog was pressuring Nokia for a timely release, and guess what, now the complaints about rushed and half-baked products are starting...

that was so expected...

I'm no way defending Nokia, or picking up on TAD88 directly, I just take the advantage of this thread ;)

And I don't think that Nokia conceded to the pressure either (or not too much)...

ragnar

11-27-2009, 10:59 AM

hypnotik

11-27-2009, 11:01 AM

these are issues that can be corrected in software. i'm much more concerned about issues like Mic not working and random reboots, which makes the phone basically unusable.

Holyshit

11-27-2009, 11:05 AM

Isn't Nokia's whole business plan with N900 to off-load most development from Nokia to the consumers under the disguise of "open source development" ---> $$$ for Nokia.

So what did you expect with the N900 then lad?

sharper

11-27-2009, 11:06 AM

funny, a few weeks ago everybody and his dog was pressuring Nokia for a timely release, and guess what, now the complaints about rushed and half-baked products are starting...

that was so expected...
Here's a nice idea - how about we consider it reasonable for people to expect a non-half baked product and a timely release for something costing €500+?

zaheerm

11-27-2009, 11:18 AM

There will always be things that some people consider really important and some not. I think Nokia made a good balance with the N900 and implemented a good mix of features without leaving any showstoppers out.

The missing stuff you mentioned could be added to by ones others have thought, much easier than on other mobile platforms because of the ease of development.

volt

11-27-2009, 11:19 AM

Everybody seems to be going at the messenger instead of the message.

Me for one, think you're kind of right. These things are not part of the default delivery. And adding all of these, especially portrait GUIs for all default/Nokia applications, is a matter of quite a bit of work. I don't think all of these will be fixed by 31.01.10. But some will, and I am sure they will have a deadline on many issues related to the "N920" release.

As to the whole missing features because the N900 was rushed, I believe this to be a partial truth. I believe Nokia is bleeding in the smart phone market, and I believe the N97 failure increased the need for the N900 to come sooner rather than later.

The N900 is however not a quickfix, but something they have worked towards for years. It's a milestone release for Nokia, and it is hardly a thrown together device. As such, I believe the main reason that the N900 is less than feature perfect on the areas you point out, is not rush, but the simple fact that it's a "first Maemo phone". First generation anything always lack something while it excels in other things. It's a basic "where did they put the focus with this device" resource management question.

The N900 excels in many areas. So it's not really unexpected that there are some things that simply are basic but nothing extra. The media are bound to pick out these as cons, and the discussions will go around them. Like the missing MMS was used against the Iphone for years.

Like Apple had to implement the MMS as much as they didn't want to, Nokia too will have to do something about their "cons" list, before their next device. And each software fix will be to N900 owners benefit as well.

The much-promised "first firmware fix" will disappoint a lot of people, cause it simply cannot deliver everything people hope for. No firmware fix was ever a solve-it-all.

So, you get a lot of flack for putting together a list of things you think should have been done right the first time. Well, I think you're right, each of them should have been done right the first time. But it could not be expected that _all_ of these things are done the first time, because as a platform for phones, Maemo 5 is brand new, and no first version of anything is ever complete when the sales starts.

All in all I think the Maemo team have done admirably, it's a big job and so far it seems like they're "hitting gold", quote gsmarena.

sharper

11-27-2009, 11:21 AM

TAD88

11-27-2009, 11:23 AM

Who are you?

Exactly, just go and get an iphone, and make my day

NO COMMENT

It does not make coffee.

loooool,u will be glad also if it has dishwasher :p

i'm much more concerned about issues like Mic not working and random reboots

Me too ,but it maybe software bugs which also will need to be fixed in upcoming firmware updates.

and seriously guys , I just mentioned missing functions in N900 that have been mentioned in this thread by other members many and many times with hope that nokia add them to N900 soon and If anyone does not miss them so good for him.

verhagke

11-27-2009, 11:31 AM

You can vote for your favorite feature requests and bugs to be fixed here:

https://bugs.maemo.org/

Raubtier

11-27-2009, 11:39 AM

I think that Nokia rushed and released N900 with software that miss many functions that anyone can find them in its previous mobile devices like:

portrait mode

MMS

Speed and Voice Dialing

ability to make new profiles

ability to customize special ring tone for each one in my Contacts

ability to send files directly from File Manager

ability to rearrange Main menu icons and make new folders in it

Equalizer in Music player

FM Radio receiver program

ability to scroll rapidly in Photos and Music player which anyone will need when he has too many photos or songs

Search applicaton

Handwriting recognition

No voice recorder

No voice navigation

so do u think that Nokia will add all these features to Maemo 5 soon or it will take months to add them ?:confused:

and If u miss something else in Maemo 5 OS, plz just write it .

you have a good point! i really dont understand why these features were omitted...another thing missing is the option for the phone to speak out the callers name, really miss that feature.

hope that these features will be packed in until feb..

i`m getting tired with people either bashing the n900 or telling people t purchase an iphone whenever it is critized. there is nothing to dispute about the fact that the n900 would be way better if these standard s60 features were included.

TAD88

11-27-2009, 11:47 AM

So, you get a lot of flack for putting together a list of things you think should have been done right the first time. Well, I think you're right, each of them should have been done right the first time. But it could not be expected that _all_ of these things are done the first time, because as a platform for phones, Maemo 5 is brand new, and no first version of anything is ever complete when the sales starts.

that is true but as me and other thought that many delays in releasing of N900 was to add these features so we became disappointed when device was released without them but that is OK as I love N900 I should be patient for Nokia to add these features to it.

Of the last I'd say critical features are:

-Portrait mode
-Menu Icon reordering
-Quick scrolling

Same for me but also Voice Dialing and ability to customize special ring tone for each one in my Contacts

i`m getting tired with people either bashing the n900 or telling people t purchase an iphone whenever it is critized. there is nothing to dispute about the fact that the n900 would be way better if these standard s60 features were included.

you are right, with these guys we can not discuss any of N900 problems here as they will repeat this message (get iphone , buy iphone , go for iphone, iphone iphone bla bla bla) to anyone just try to discuss any thing about N900

Thanks for any useful answer

Untouchab1e

11-27-2009, 11:56 AM

Brunorange

11-27-2009, 12:15 PM

things I think is important (listed by importance):
1) ability to scroll rapidly in Photos and Music player (have over 3000 numbers... and will have more with the 32gb.)
2) Arrange media by the iD3 tag and/or it would be nice to be able to tag your media files (music and video) like your photos (with tags/genres you can edit yourself.)
3) ability to send files directly from File Manager
4) MMS (I do send quite alot of those. Nice and easy postcard)
5) re-arrange icons

Don't care about portrait mode... (think it's annoying that the screen rearranges if I tilt the phone...) Have disabled that on my flashed HD so it only works in browser... Hate that the iPod switches to that album flipper if tilted too much and same thing with the HD. But If others want it fine by me ( I just hope it will be optional)

jandmdickerson

11-27-2009, 12:18 PM

Good imput! Now if you want to more than merely talk about your ideas go here:

http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=353146&postcount=1

This is where the real fun of opensource community starts. We can do more than talk we can contribute!! If you don't want to contribute this is okay also. Having choices is freedom!

nuknuk

11-27-2009, 12:28 PM

And for some of us critical feature MIC.:D

Rauha

11-27-2009, 12:48 PM

thinh

11-27-2009, 01:54 PM

Of the last I'd say critical features are:

-Portrait mode
-Menu Icon reordering
-Quick scrolling

The others are all nice and some users will like them but the lack of the above three really create an "unfinished" appearance.

1+, if these should of been done on the first firmware out, and it does create a very unfinished appearance. As for the other the wait is expected.

YoDude

11-27-2009, 02:04 PM

I think that most of those are on the road map for Maemo 6. Rushing would mean that there was a plan to release it with those features and releasing before those were implemented.

(IMHO) The right question would be, if it was smart to release "step 4 out of 5"? (and my answer would yes, but I guess I'm way off-topic).

I think you are right on many levels...

As for an earlier remark about Nokia saving dollars with this approach I think yes and no. Whatever money they may have saved went into developing a new device that allows FOSS in the first place... not to mention support for this community itself plus the program that provided loaner devices to individuals with forum nicknames instead of corporate partners.

Nokia has also provided this device without kowtowing to the demands of service providers which have crippled many a good device in the past in order to protect revenue streams that never fully materialized in the first place.

This open source approach also saves money in the future for Nokia and device users, IMHO. You will notice that not a lot of licenses from third parties are included with the firmware. Even my Motorola "dumb phone" pays MS a royalty on every unit sold for the use of something. (pro'ly just the ability to connect to a Windows Box in order to program and sync)
In a FOSS world Motorola could have released the phone with out this ability and relied on independent developers to provide the drivers or relied on Linux only for program and sync operations. They didn't because they did not want to limit sales in anyway... In the end the consumer pays for this type of thinking but he gets polish.

I doubt anyone would suggest that Nokia actively promoted the N900 as a replacement for any phone currently on the market including Nokia's own devices.

In the end all this crying for features that have proprietary licenses attached may result in Nokia ceding some independence with Maemo6 by reaching agreements with third parties. This may add polish but it will remove some of the advantages inherent in Maemo5 like anonymity and access to many device API's.

If they do have to get into bed with a third party my hope is that it would be Google and not MS but who knows? (Besides that is a topic for another thread.) Does anyone remember the Harmattan screen shots that were posted many months ago (May I believe) showing advertisement on the device desktop?

You can't have your cake and eat it too... But it looks like to me with Maemo5 you have all the ingredients available to make a tasty pie.

Good pies need time to bake. :)

Phlook

11-27-2009, 02:06 PM

(IMHO) The right question would be, if it was smart to release "step 4 out of 5"? (and my answer would yes, but I guess I'm way off-topic).

The question is: would anybody have the patience to wait another 6 months or more for the N900's first release so it could have everything everybody wants implemented in it?

MontyBravo

11-27-2009, 02:33 PM

The question is: would anybody have the patience to wait another 6 months or more for the N900's first release so it could have everything everybody wants implemented in it?

For it to be good value for money and a product that worked for you £*** yes totally!

I would never release an unfinished product into market.

MontyBravo

11-27-2009, 02:37 PM

Here's a nice idea - how about we consider it reasonable for people to expect a non-half baked product and a timely release for something costing €500+?

Totally agree, this is the point I am trying to get across in another thread but its the fanboy response of : OH ITS NOT A PHONE ITS AWESOME THE COMMUNITY WILL FIX IT.

If I released one of my hardware products my company sells and it did not work properly we would not be in business!

simple!

MB

sharper

11-27-2009, 02:42 PM

Fact 1: The N900 is not for everyone

I'm not a business expert but as far as I know Nokia operates on the basis of its products being "for" as many people with money to spend as possible.

Dave999

11-27-2009, 02:44 PM

yes, but it also missing an in-built printer, cooler or watshingking...you got a phone that is built like a tank. take it or leave it.

DaveP1

11-27-2009, 03:10 PM

Here's a nice idea - how about we consider it reasonable for people to expect a non-half baked product and a timely release for something costing €500+?

Amen. It's not as if Nokia didn't have the time to do it right. And they certainly didn't need the revenue with new S60 releases still going on. It seems more like they didn't consider the N900 or Fremantle a priority and they were unwilling to devote sufficient resources to the product to finish it.

I remain hopeful that resources are being directed at it so that with release 1.1 most of the issues mentioned by the OP will be solved. But until then, I won't be upgrading. I need a phone that works, not a toy that I can get root on and experiment with. Limited computing capability is a nice extra but that is all it is, an extra. I doubt many people would have bought it if the cell capability was data only (as it is on more powerful mobile computers like the Viliv S5).

range

11-27-2009, 03:22 PM

For it to be good value for money and a product that worked for you £*** yes totally!

I would never release an unfinished product into market.

But is it unfinished? It is not an S60 phone, yet everyone seems to expect that it has all the features S60 phones have.

It is a new kind of device which exists parallel to the S60 devices, and is a new platform which - yes - needs to mature. On the other hand I have features which I cannot find on an S60 phone. But I don't expect S60 phones to have an xterm for example.

And the specifications of the device have been available since August, and none of the features people seem to be used to from their S60 phones have been mentioned in there. If you absolutely need these features, S60 seems to be the right platform at the moment. And you could try to reapply for a maemo phone a bit later.

If you want something else, the N900 could be your phone. But as said: The specs have been open, so I don't understand the sudden surprise moment here.

range

11-27-2009, 03:25 PM

If I released one of my hardware products my company sells and it did not work properly we would not be in business!

So where does the N900 "not work properly" - besides the hardware issues some have with the broken microphones?

Or doesn't it just live up to your expectations (whereever they came from)? Many phones don't live up to mine, too - but I wouldn't call them broken.

I just wouldn't consider buying them, then. For me the N900 is what I want to have - the phone features are plenty for me, but I really want to have the open platform behind it. Your mileage may vary.

range

11-27-2009, 03:28 PM

I'm not a business expert but as far as I know Nokia operates on the basis of its products being "for" as many people with money to spend as possible.

Yes. But if it doesn't fit your vision of a phone, it clearly isn't the right phone for you. The iphone for example clearly isn't the right phone for me, even as Apple operates on the same basis - but I can accept that and don't throw fits on some apple board.

The N900 is the phone for people who see the N900 as the phone they want. Nothing more, nothing less.

range

11-27-2009, 03:29 PM

I need a phone that works, not a toy that I can get root on and experiment with. Limited computing capability is a nice extra but that is all it is, an extra.

Well, then this is not the phone for you. Then you need to buy a different phone which does what you want. But please let me have the phone I want which might be different from yours.

I really don't understand some people.

benny1967

11-27-2009, 03:49 PM

It is a new kind of device which exists parallel to the S60 devices, and is a new platform which - yes - needs to mature.

Can we stop that "It's a new kind of device" thing?
The name is "Maemo 5" because it's the 5th version of an OS that was introduced to the public in 2005.

What they did was drop quite a few features (pity) and add some. It's not a new kind of device. It's the long overdue successor to the N810, something we thought would be released in 2008.

Looking at it from a distance and comparing it to the 4 previous iterations of Maemo, it seems 80% of the work has gone into the UI. Well. That's one strategy.

x61

11-27-2009, 04:10 PM

you have a good point! i really dont understand why these features were omitted...another thing missing is the option for the phone to speak out the callers name, really miss that feature.

hope that these features will be packed in until feb..

i`m getting tired with people either bashing the n900 or telling people t purchase an iphone whenever it is critized. there is nothing to dispute about the fact that the n900 would be way better if these standard s60 features were included.

This is a great feature in S60. Though I currently, have the N900, I am still using my N95 because of the "used to" features that are missing.

dantonic

11-27-2009, 04:12 PM

Can we stop that "It's a new kind of device" thing?
The name is "Maemo 5" because it's the 5th version of an OS that was introduced to the public in 2005.

What they did was drop quite a few features (pity) and add some. It's not a new kind of device. It's the long overdue successor to the N810, something we thought would be released in 2008.

Looking at it from a distance and comparing it to the 4 previous iterations of Maemo, it seems 80% of the work has gone into the UI. Well. That's one strategy.

Although that is true, it is also true that this is the First maemo phone. In that respect it is the first maemo device doing this, and that is probably why it is lacking certain phone capabilities.
It still needs to mature in the phone department.

But everything else seems a lot more mature to me than previous maemo versions ;P

Rauha

11-27-2009, 04:15 PM

The question is: would anybody have the patience to wait another 6 months or more for the N900's first release so it could have everything everybody wants implemented in it?
And my question would be how anybody registered in September 2009 didn't now that this was "step 4 out 5"? Anybody registered on this board should have known about what Nokia said in Nokia World and what many Nokia employees have said on this board. Maemo 6 will be consumer version. Maemo 5 sits somewhere between consumer friendly and the previous "science project"-like Maemo products.

We have strange viral videos about cyborg-penguins spewing stuff about open-source. What we don't have is a mass market aimed TV and newspaper advertisements. We have Nokia making pretty clear on each step of the way that Maemo 5 isn't and shouln''t be a mass market consumer device.

Call me silly fanboi, if you want, but items on OP's list are owerwhelmingly stuff that Nokia never promised. The bugs in release firmware are different matter. Current e-mail problems, for example, are inexcusable and shouldn't be there at release. I both expect and want Nokia to fix those quickly. I don't expect Nokia to do things that were never supposed to be there until Maemo 6, like real support for portrait mode.

Maybe Nokia's real error was to underestimate the interest it's brand alone would bring to N900/Maemo 5. The delays in N900's release due to unexpected demand seem to indicate so. Nokia's brand alone seems to have peeked interest from lot of people who didn't know what they were getting into.

jjx

11-27-2009, 04:40 PM

Maybe Nokia's real error was to underestimate the interest it's brand alone would bring to N900/Maemo 5. The delays in N900's release due to unexpected demand seem to indicate so. Nokia's brand alone seems to have peeked interest from lot of people who didn't know what they were getting into.

That's a good point. They might have fared better if it was released under a different brand name, maybe not even branding it a Nokia phone but "Nokia Research M5" or something. Let people discover it a bit more slowly.

Texrat

11-27-2009, 04:45 PM

and seriously guys , I just mentioned missing functions in N900 that have been mentioned in this thread by other members many and many times with hope that nokia add them to N900 soon and If anyone does not miss them so good for him.

But, see, that's actually part of the problem for many readers here. We KNOW about the reported drawbacks thanks to al those threads. :D

Time to move past recognition, though, and toward resolution... to that aim, the post below the one I'm quoting is a good starting point!

range

11-27-2009, 04:48 PM

Can we stop that "It's a new kind of device" thing?
The name is "Maemo 5" because it's the 5th version of an OS that was introduced to the public in 2005.

Yeah, but nobody expected it to have phone capabilities. 3G data - yes.

tissot

11-27-2009, 04:53 PM

Some thought S60 features would be automaticly in N900. OSX, WebOS neither Android had the functionality of Symbian or WM from the start. G1 wasn't hugely popular mostly because of the limitations of Android 1.0(and the HW wasn't the best ;)), but Nokia "flagship" with OMAP3 and high reso screen will attract many people automaticly. Many who will not bother to actually look what they are buying. Fact is that you are buying OS that is still middle of rapid evolving.

It's good to remember that like me i have no desire for most of the features that are "missing" on the N900 and so i'm loving it with it still having of course it's own problems.
Example capacitive Maemo 5/Maemo 6 device is something i'm ready to pay whatever Nokia asks ;)

IMO it's funny to read some rants about the N900 missing that and what not. I understand that after paying 550 euros or whatever it makes you mad, but the info is out there for anybody to read.

When it comes to actual bugs and HW problems that's totally a different thing and something Nokia really needs to get together.

Andre Klapper

11-27-2009, 06:17 PM

Of the last I'd say critical features are:

-Portrait mode
-Menu Icon reordering
-Quick scrolling

Calling these "critical features" sounds very weird to me, as so far I have survived using the N900 even without having portrait mode available in every application.

DaveP1

11-27-2009, 06:18 PM

Fact is that you are buying OS that is still middle of rapid evolving.

The point is, by the fifth version it should have evolved a bit more. If you are happy to tinker with it, more power to you. For around $500 I see a device that does nothing all that well in its current incarnation. and I expected more from the world's preeminent cell phone manufacturer. Silly me.

And I'm tired of hearing this is just a step towards the ultimate. You don't sell a two legged stool with the idea that the next stool you produce will have more legs and that the community can figure out how to add a leg to the current model.

YoDude

11-27-2009, 06:28 PM

Andre Klapper

11-27-2009, 06:36 PM

[SIZE="3"]I think that Nokia rushed and released N900 with software that miss many functions that anyone can find them in its previous mobile devices like:

portrait mode

Available for Phone, soon available for Browser. So this complaint is too general.

ability to make new profiles

Feel free to vote for https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5793

ability to customize special ring tone for each one in my Contacts

Feel free to vote for https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5356

ability to send files directly from File Manager

Feel free to vote for https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5300

Equalizer in Music player

Feel free to vote https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1890

FM Radio receiver program

fm-radio is available in Extras repository.

ability to scroll rapidly in Photos and Music player which anyone will need when he has too many photos or songs

Feel free to vote for https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5388

No voice recorder

recorder is available in Extras repository.

Holyshit

11-27-2009, 06:37 PM

How come the N900/Maemo (which is already at it's 5th release) doesn't even come close to the functionality of the Psion 5MX 10 years ago...It had a terrific keyboard, a very good document writer and spreadsheat app. It ran the Opera webbrowser. It had an excellent calendar. It had a good e-mail client. There were plenty of good apps for the device..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bh1uBRH6n8E

So looking at it from a purely user and software perspective Maemo isn't that modern - as compared to what the Psion 5MX had to offer TEN years ago.

tissot

11-27-2009, 06:49 PM

The point is, by the fifth version it should have evolved a bit more. If you are happy to tinker with it, more power to you. For around $500 I see a device that does nothing all that well in its current incarnation. and I expected more from the world's preeminent cell phone manufacturer. Silly me.

And I'm tired of hearing this is just a step towards the ultimate. You don't sell a two legged stool with the idea that the next stool you produce will have more legs and that the community can figure out how to add a leg to the current model.
OS2008 and fremantel are very much a different beasts. Phone part being good starting point ;) This is maemos first time in phone market and this will already shape whole maemo differenty that would have not happened if this would have stayed as a tablet os. Going from niche device to ui and os that should appeal large variety of peoples make the previous versions not to be compared to the maemo 5 imo.

hashier

11-27-2009, 06:59 PM

jjx

11-27-2009, 09:42 PM

And I'm tired of hearing this is just a step towards the ultimate. You don't sell a two legged stool with the idea that the next stool you produce will have more legs and that the community can figure out how to add a leg to the current model.

You do if you have a substantial customer base who wants a two legged stool that they can add their own leg to.

etuoyo

11-27-2009, 09:54 PM

@ TAD88

Who are you?

Exactly, just go and get an iphone, and make my day

Wow so he needs to go and get a phone just because he comes up with a list of basic functions many of which Nokia phones have had for like over 5 years!!!

DaveP1

11-27-2009, 11:20 PM

Do you own an N900?

I don't buy release 1.0 if I can avoid it. I was planning to upgrade my phone after Christmas and the N900 was at the top of my list. Now, I'm not so sure. I hope version 1.1 will address more than jus the portrait mode issue and, if so, it remains a possibility. But the Android releases are increasingly tempting. While I support Open Source, I'm not willing to sacrifice my phone on its altar.

Laughing Man

11-27-2009, 11:41 PM

I don't buy release 1.0 if I can avoid it. I was planning to upgrade my phone after Christmas and the N900 was at the top of my list. Now, I'm not so sure. I hope version 1.1 will address more than jus the portrait mode issue and, if so, it remains a possibility. But the Android releases are increasingly tempting. While I support Open Source, I'm not willing to sacrifice my phone on its altar.

I would normally wait too except my commuting circumstances needs a solution as soon as possible. And I don't use my phone very often so as long as the n900 doesn't reboot every single time I need to make a phone call I decided I might as well get it now rather than buy another device, and then the n900 later.

Alex Atkin UK

11-28-2009, 01:08 AM

Totally agree, this is the point I am trying to get across in another thread but its the fanboy response of : OH ITS NOT A PHONE ITS AWESOME THE COMMUNITY WILL FIX IT.

If I released one of my hardware products my company sells and it did not work properly we would not be in business!

simple!

MB

The problem here is what you should get for 500 is entirely your opinion. It will vary wildly depending on who you ask.

I could buy a PC for 500 with NO OS! Does that mean I should piss and moan about it? Its up to you to know what you are buying before you pony over the cash.

Fact is you DO get a good device, it might be missing a few features you thought it would have, but for the most part Nokia have been totally honest about what was missing so the only person at fault is the buyer who did not check first to make sure it had the feature they needed.

Many phones still do not have Bluetooth, the quality of the web browser can also vary wildly, as well as software compatibility. Granted they are usually phones cheaper than the N900 but it doesn't make it any less likely I would have expectations of those devices that are not met. You just have to know what you are buying BEFORE laying down your cash, period.

Personally, I am buying a Linux based mini-PC with phone functionality. The N900 I believe is EXACTLY what I expected it to be, based on reading other peoples reports and fiddling with the SDK. I would be shocked if when I get my N900 I am disappointed, because I have researched what it does/does not do out of the box.

Would I like it to do more? Of course.
Would I rather wait 6/12 more months to get those features? Hell no!

The N900 already does certain things far better than any other device and is certainly the most customisable (without needed to jailbreak the device). People who are moaning at things its missing clearly did not do the research, but then that is normal as hardly anyone RTFM. People have a preconception of what a phone is going to do, that is why Nokia tried to make it clear this is a NIT with a phone.

Fact is, some of us all we WANTED was a NIT with basic phone support. We will use IM most of the time and mostly need the phone part so people can call us who have more primitive devices, landlines, etc and so we do not have to carry a basic phone with us too. Mainly, the phone part was added so we would have an always-on connection and Nokia added the more essential parts of that, phone calls and SMS, so we only need the one device. MMS would have needed WAP support which would have stolen developers away from the more important NIT functionality and the huge improvements the whole UI experience has undergone compared to previous Maemo versions.

Bottom line is yes, Nokia did rush this device. But if they had waited it would have a had few more stock features but NO community software, as the community needs the device to be available first before it can start working porting/coding applications. That is the catch to making it more community driven, you don't have a community until the device is out there.

As long as they do not shoot themselves in the foot and totally break compatibility with Maemo 6 (which I fear they might, especially if they switch to capacitive screens) then releasing the N900 will mean there will be a large community working on Maemo 6 software long before that device is released. This is where we can truely say if Nokia made the right decision, Maemo 6 MUST be backwards compatible IMO or else this was all for nothing.

That is the only point where I might argue Nokia made a mistake with the N900, the little things like a portrait on-screen keyboard "out of the box" so that the API is complete even if the software on top is not. Although I believe the API IS there, just no stock layout/graphics for a portrait keyboard.

YoDude

11-28-2009, 11:46 AM

I know this is a little off topic but I just have a quick question...

I hear that on the 2010 Ferrari California (http://consumerguideauto.howstuffworks.com/2010-ferrari-f149.htm) can hold four occupants but can't accommodate a standard child's car seat. :mad:
In this day and age expecting people to pay over $180,000 for a car that an average growing family can't use is a huge mistake. I read one review that said the car didn't even have a dang cup holder. :eek:
I can't believe that Ferrari expects to be successful with this thing in California :confused:

Sales of the the Toyota mini van (http://www.toyota.com/sienna/) are so good that there is no way they can catch up The cup holders on the Toyota glide out smoothly when needed and the whole thing is so much more consumer friendly. I mean, what was Ferrari thinking? Someone should be fired for this. :mad:

Does anyone know if there is a Ferrari California users group or forum I can join to let them know how screwed up they all are?
...and what is with this new "Bertone" interior? Do we all have to use it or can we install another interior and at least have working cup holders? :rolleyes:

:p

ninjaboxergirl

11-28-2009, 11:53 AM

Andre Klapper

11-28-2009, 03:51 PM

No voice navigation?? In GPS? surely not?

Yes, not included in Nokia Maps oin the N900 currently.

j2001m

11-29-2009, 10:17 AM

you have to pay for that crap anyway with all nokia;s
just upgrade to some other pay for gps software
there is one out before the end of the year

Eric G

11-29-2009, 01:48 PM

http://geekandpoke.typepad.com/geekandpoke/2009/11/thats-why-we-love-this-job.html

Fast, cheap or right, choose any 2...

nirave

11-29-2009, 02:14 PM

Fact 1: The N900 is not for everyone
Fact 2: Nokia have stated repeatedly that certain features were left out due to lack of time, but they have also promised releasing patches which fixes alot of these issues. They have even gone so far as to say: "We will provide extensive portrait mode support by the end of the year". When they actually dare to give out such a specific time window, I believe they will make it happen.

So, it was never a secret that these features were not going to be on the device at time of release. If you expected the features to be there regardless of what previous reports said, you should simply have waited longer before getting the N900..

Now on what you've posted in bold.. I have to say (I do believe they will bring it out) but let's not forget that Nokia & timescales are not usually correct for flagship devices (N97 v20...)...

That being said, due to the mass interest they have received in the N900 that has easily surpassed expectations I'd expect to see the next firmware by end of december/ first week of january!

mikkov

11-29-2009, 03:54 PM

Nokia have stated repeatedly that certain features were left out due to lack of time, but they have also promised releasing patches which fixes alot of these issues. They have even gone so far as to say: "We will provide extensive portrait mode support by the end of the year". When they actually dare to give out such a specific time window, I believe they will make it happen.

No, they said that there will be portrait mode support for the browser, which is far from extensive.

volt

11-30-2009, 05:26 AM

Can we stop that "It's a new kind of device" thing?
The name is "Maemo 5" because it's the 5th version of an OS that was introduced to the public in 2005.

What they did was drop quite a few features (pity) and add some. It's not a new kind of device.

Benny and others, maybe it'll be good if you take a step back for a second and take a look at what the differences between Maemo 4 and Maemo 5 are. Original out-of-box experiences, third party software aside.

Maemo 4 is a (very interesting) operating system for something akin to a handheld device with no PIM. No calendar. No voice functionality. No java. Pretty much every bit of software Nokia use to sell cell phones, is on purpose omitted from the 770 - N810. Why? Apparently because Nokia expected you to have a Nokia telephone to tether it with, where you already have all this.

Maemo 5 is ment for different usage. It is now a phone OS (also?) Much of what your Nokia telephone can do, has been duplicated over to the Maemo platform. We're getting PIM and calendar, phone essentials, etc. They are taking a mature NIT OS and adding a completely new module of phone centric software.

Most of the things discussed here, did not exist on this platform at all four months ago. Many of the things that did, are mature.

In some ways, the phone part of the OS can be compared to the Android dev phone. It wasn't the best phone ever. But it was a leap in other ways. The N900 should have somewhat higher expectations, because only the phone centric parts are "new".

My windows mobile phone died last week. I'm currently using a T610. Fairly ready for the N900 now. But I expect it to be (far) behind the HTC Hero on some areas.

And much, much more interesting in other areas.

But Maemo 5 isn't mainstream yet. It's the very first phone on this platform, and it doesn't help much that xterm is mature already.

hcancelik

12-05-2009, 03:45 AM

i couldn't see the simple Fax field for contacts. :(

archzai

12-05-2009, 07:32 AM

funny, a few weeks ago everybody and his dog was pressuring Nokia for a timely release, and guess what, now the complaints about rushed and half-baked products are starting...

umm how about this for starters?

1. Instead of promising a release date that you can't meet. you're better off not hyping the phone up just yet and making it open for pre order so early

2. The one month delay has nothing to do with the huge amount of missing features. Nokia wasn't even intending to put these features in in the first place. Thats the problem!

Andre Klapper

12-05-2009, 08:47 AM

i couldn't see the simple Fax field for contacts. :(

Feel free to vote for https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5742 by clicking on "Vote for this bug".

iJanne

12-05-2009, 10:04 AM

2. The one month delay has nothing to do with the huge amount of missing features. Nokia wasn't even intending to put these features in in the first place. Thats the problem!

Exactly! Nokia announced the N900 as the step 4 of 5 in getting Maemo ready for a smartphone.

Hence step 4 of 5 not 5 of 5 yet.

The N900 is useful for a limited market and was truthfully announced as such.

hcancelik

12-05-2009, 01:45 PM

Feel free to vote for https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5742 by clicking on "Vote for this bug".

Thanks Andre.

skalogre

12-05-2009, 09:59 PM

Exactly! Nokia announced the N900 as the step 4 of 5 in getting Maemo ready for a smartphone.

Hence step 4 of 5 not 5 of 5 yet.

The N900 is useful for a limited market and was truthfully announced as such.

Agreed. I bought this knowing fully well that as a smartphone the N97 (which I already have) is leagues ahead. But as data is more important to me than voice, I don't mind that at all.

iamNarada

12-05-2009, 10:58 PM

Hmmm. Disclaimer first. I do not own a n900. The extent of my exposure the n900 has been playing with it on several occasions in the NY flagship store. The last time I held one was a week before the NY flagship store called me (I was on the store list), but of course I was out of the country and could get to the store by 8pm the next day when they called. I have a 770 and n800, and will ...probably get a n900, just waiting for the madness to die down. I also have an e51 (a Nokia s60 phone for those of you who aren't familiar with it). I can understand how people whose first experience with the NIT is the n900 feel that it's missing features, because it is, even compared to Nokia's own s60 series. We need to remember that if a device is touted as a flagship device (was it officially?), then the expectation is that it will have all of the capabilities of the lesser models and then some. Of course for most of the long time forum members and owners of previous models, the "then some" is in all of the slightly more esoteric capabilities of the phone, and all of the other stuff (including the cellular radio) is fluff anyways. Regardless, I think that all of the gnashing of teeth and tearing of hair by the n900 owners who are new to the platform is a good thing .....not only in compiling the list of must have fixes and features for the coming firmware updates, but more importantly for the next model. I honestly think that Nokia is going to have to step up their game a little for the coming final step (Maemo 6 and associated devices). The niche they had all to their selves is getting crowded, there are (and will be more) quite a few comparable alternatives, so if they don't get initial releases right or fixed quickly, they'll have another n97 on their hands, as in dead on arrival. It all well and good for those of us who love the platform and the features that come with it to tell the belly-achers to go buy a lesser alternative and be quiet, but it will weaken the n920 or what ever it's going to be called. Yes, their tone could be more constructive, but there is often a nugget of truth in their moaning. I think we owe it to ourselves to do everything we can to extract that nugget, what ever validity there is in the cries of the first of the mass adopters, and make sure it gets to Nokia. Just my 2 pence.

etuoyo

12-06-2009, 05:34 AM

It all well and good for those of us who love the platform and the features that come with it to tell the belly-achers to go buy a lesser alternative and be quiet, but it will weaken the n920 or what ever it's going to be called. Yes, their tone could be more constructive, but there is often a nugget of truth in their moaning. I think we owe it to ourselves to do everything we can to extract that nugget, what ever validity there is in the cries of the first of the mass adopters, and make sure it gets to Nokia. Just my 2 pence.

Exactly. Nokia cannot rely on any stage 5 out of 6 (or stage 4 out of 5) to excuse any deficiencies the device may have unless they want to lose further smart phone market share. Many would have been turned of Nokia by the N97. N900 may be intended to be a niche device but Nokia cannot select who they sell it to. If many buy it and are disappointed then they would be turned off Nokia and no way would they consider any N920.

c_legaspi

12-06-2009, 05:52 AM

the problem i find with maemo is that with each version, they keep changing the format and makes backwards compatibilty between maemo difficult. my bet this is going to be the same for maemo 6. everything will have to be re-package.

but this is only my experience starting with the n770.

the n800/810 is what should have been the n900 and thus the n900 now should have been much better coming out of the box.

deadmalc

12-06-2009, 05:54 AM

i've said it before and ill say it again.
if you are spending 500 quid on a device, if you don't do your research first you are obviously either too rich, or silly.
for me its what i had waited for and nearly perfection.
please do you research before buying any device

c_legaspi

12-06-2009, 06:50 AM

thats why i havent bought one. i cant afford spending 600 bucks for a new phone when my current one is fulfilling my needs at the moment. i think the next model version of the n9xx may be about the right time for me for my next upgrade.

the n900 is what i was waiting for 2 years ago, way before the iphone; which i think was a missed opportunity for nokia

FatalZero

12-06-2009, 07:46 AM

I've researched the N900 really good before I bought it. I knew it was not the perfectly polished, ultra sleek, superduper phone/MID. But I want to make a difference for a platform. Maemo has the potential to kick Apple's *** real good.

We've arrived at a point in development that the hardware will not sell a phone. Of course it is important but it's not solely the Unique Selling Point.

Today and tomorrow it is all about usability and applications. If a platform has a vast amount of apps available it is more likely to sell. For example take the iPhone or Android. It has a vast amount of apps available and it is very, very easy to install these on your device.

So if Nokia and us of course wants to have a chance to be a big time player in the field we need to do our efforts to try new software, test it and do a bugreport.

My experience is very positive! This is really the first platform I see where users don't get scolded when they discover a bug and report it. I discovered a stupid bug in Windows Mobile 6.1 a year ago, and thought: 'Hey I can reproduce this error and it is absolutely due to a bad in a Microsoft .DLL, let's report it and send some logs.'. The bug destroyed the contact list. Pretty important if you ask me.

My reaction from Microsoft was: 'Dear Sir, As far as we know we are not going to fix this bug. We ask you kindly not to bother us with this kind of information.'. Well that's damn good first impression!

To get back on the subject at hand, although Nokia announced this as a Step 4 out of 5, a niche product etc. etc. this is a very stable, usable piece of hard and software. Much better then the current Windows Mobile will ever be!

c_legaspi

12-06-2009, 08:08 AM

ive got to admit that when i got my first winmo phone (sony xperia x1a), it did really good as a phone and as a web browser out of the box. it even got better with the xda support. i have had it for over a year and its still on par with the best phones coming out today and so no need for me to upgrade at this time.

other phones such as the winmo, android and iphone and etc... does make it easier to install apps and thus makes a good phone for the everyday user or first time smartphone buyer. the n900 is not for the everyday user but more for the power user and so many will not know what they are buying.

i believe the n900 with the support of the maemo community can and will be a good well rounded device. i definitely will be looking at n900 or its subsequent successor as for next upgrade for sometime in 2010.

FatalZero

12-06-2009, 08:14 AM

ive got to admit that when i got my first winmo phone (sony xperia x1a), it did really good as a phone and as a web browser out of the box. it even got better with the xda support. i have had it for over a year and its still on par with the best phones coming out today and so no need for me to upgrade at this time.

i believe the n900 with the support of the maemo community can and will be a good well rounded device. i definitely will be looking at n900 or its subsequent successor as for next upgrade for sometime in 2010.

I've just ditched my XPERIA X1i. The device is to slow for me, the Opera webbrowser isn't that stable, it crashes at random. The build quality of the Sony Ericsson is nice but the software isn't up to par for me. Maybe I'm just a very demanding user. :D

davost

12-06-2009, 08:32 AM

I think N900 was rushed. But I also think that is exactly how it should be. It is a device in the spirit of the open source movement. According to Eric Raymond http://www.catb.org/~esr//writings/homesteading/cathedral-bazaar/ar01s04.html The notion of Release Early Release Often (And trust your community to help you iron out bugs) was key innovation that Linus Torvalds made.

I agree with this. As a matter of fact. The open source development model has showed some amazing results.

colourblind

12-06-2009, 08:49 AM

lol i ditched my xp1 after 3 weeks, i hated ut so much i swore never to gret a xp or wins mo phone

sgbirch

12-06-2009, 09:03 AM

I think that Nokia rushed and released N900 with software that miss many functions that anyone can find them in its previous mobile devices like:

Perhaps they were early but most of the critial functions work well. I have no doubt that the other functions you mention will be added with software updates.

Given the choice of waiting or getting the device now but with a few missing features I vote for getting the device now.

I already don't know how I survived without this wonderful device.

iJanne

12-06-2009, 05:33 PM

We need to remember that if a device is touted as a flagship device (was it officially?)

It was not.

N900 is not the flagship phone of Nokia and anyone reading the announcements and interviews around the announcements knows this. It comes from the Internet Tablet lineage. N97 still gets the pole position on the Nokia.com phones list.

DaveP1

12-06-2009, 05:45 PM

Perhaps they were early but most of the critial functions work well. I have no doubt that the other functions you mention will be added with software updates.

In reading these forums (and doing the research everyone keeps harping about) it's hard to come to any conclusion but that the N900 is an unfinished experiment suitable primarily for Linux programmers and tinkerers who have a more reliable cell phone as well.

As a replacement for the N810 and its competitors like the iPod Touch, it kicks a.s.s in every area except price and screen size. However, as a phone with computing capabilities it's nothing special compared to the latest crop of Android phones except that some would argue its OS is more open than Android (although the Android community is working on this just as the Maemo community is working on Maemo improvements.

I am willing to wait to see what a few more months bring. At this point, I would recommend that for most consumers. Promised software updates, especially promised software updates whose contents are not on a published road map but, instead, compiled from rumors and wish lists, are no substitute for distributed code.

Laughing Man

12-06-2009, 05:49 PM

In reading these forums (and doing the research everyone keeps harping about) it's hard to come to any conclusion but that the N900 is an unfinished experiment suitable primarily for Linux programmers and tinkerers who have a more reliable cell phone as well.

Pretty much. For everyone who's not willing to wait and can find an alternative that would work for them (get that other device). For those that can't wait and there's no other alternative like me (to bad your stuck with the N900 for now).

For those who are willing to wait and this is the only alternative then just wait. For those who are willing to wait and there are other alternatives (congrats you have alot of choices).

TAD88

12-06-2009, 06:39 PM

DaveP1

12-06-2009, 07:14 PM

I just want to ask, if Nokia announced the N900 as the step 4 of 5 in getting Maemo ready for a smartphone so upcoming firmware updates will make it as step 5 of 5
or Maemo 5 will remain in step 4 and only upcoming Nokia device with Maemo 6 will be in step 5 in getting Maemo ready for smartphones?

If the past is prologue, the next generation of Maemo phones will run Maemo 6 and the N900 will have to wait for Mer to upgrade. I would hope that as Nokia moves from phones to phone/computer combinations that this will change as backward compatibility of OSs is much more widespread in the computer side of things.

iamNarada

12-06-2009, 07:19 PM

It was not.

N900 is not the flagship phone of Nokia and anyone reading the announcements and interviews around the announcements knows this. It comes from the Internet Tablet lineage. N97 still gets the pole position on the Nokia.com phones list.

Yeah, I didn't think so. But looking forward..the top of the pyramid (see the slide from Capital Market Day presentation) was given to devices running Maemo. If that's really what they intend......elbow grease will be needed.

Texrat

12-06-2009, 07:37 PM

volt

12-06-2009, 08:03 PM

Yeah, I'm a programmer but for me Linux is not a goal but a necessarily evil. Well, not evil but certainly not what I wish to spend my hours trying to configure.

I feel enthusiast and general IT practitioners fits me better.
I buy the N900 because it's the most powerful tool of it's kind.

Had the N900 waited a few months longer, I would have jumped the Android wagon. I am not convinced that in the long run, Maemo will be better than Android. But I am already on Maemo, and willing to give it a chance in this generation. Knowing perfectly well that as a phone, it will be lacking.

I hope Maemo.org will fill some of the holes there.

I also know that tens of thousands of people will buy the N900 the next months, not knowing that it is a bit behind on phone centric functionality. And they will come here. In anger. And the core users from olden ages, they may not like that any much.

It is just possible that the "google dev phone" was a bit better at telling it's potential buyers exactly what it was, than the N900. Which claims to be a phone, and moar.

mykenyc

12-06-2009, 08:38 PM

yea but 1. there is a such thing as return policy if you don't like it and 2. you really don't have to buy the n900.

Yes the features are left out but unfortunately thats the reality of things just got to deal with it. Me myself im anxious for the new firmwares to come out but buying this i knew what i was getting myself into.

volt

12-07-2009, 07:45 AM

Oh, I really think I have to buy it now :B

DaveP1

12-07-2009, 05:14 PM

Your list is not large enough. You left out enthusiasts, general IT practitioners, advanced business users...

I would argue that non-Linux enthusiasts won't find anything special about the N900 versus the latest crop of Android computers. Non-Linux IT practitioners would be better off with a UMPC Windows computer. Advanced business users would be poorly served by the current business functionality of the N900, especially in the PDA area.

This could change over time, starting with the rumored feature upgrade to the OS (rumored because I haven't seen an official announcement as to when it will be released or what ti will include). It could also change as the development community releases more apps to the platform. I would still recommend that your additional users take a wait and see attitude.

volt

12-07-2009, 06:36 PM

I believe the possibility to run OpenOffice is something special. Pidgin support on the same device is sweet.

Also, I would argument that the browser support on this platform is something preciously special. I believe there are something like three or four full blooded browsers on the Maemo 4 platform. MicroB, fennec, tear... What is ready on Maemo 5, I do not know. But I am certain that it won't be any less once the developer base move on to the N900.

mariokhoury

02-16-2010, 06:47 PM

Rob1n

02-17-2010, 04:16 AM

the phone cannot show 3 digits numbers when they are calling you , in my company we can directly dial extensions from our cellphones, when some one calls me on my extension it shows "unkown number"
:D hope they will repaire it !!!

Have you logged a bug for this? If so, adding the bug link to your message would probably help get more votes for the bug.

leetut

02-17-2010, 06:45 AM

ha ha you guys obviously didnt get the n97 on release day then, it was so unusable that i had to put it back in the box for 6 months until i could void my warranty by changing the product code just to get fw 2.0 and actually start using the phone without it freezing everytime i so much as looked at it!
the n900 is unbelievably amazing, stop moaning and enjoy it, or buy an i-toy!

mariokhoury

03-02-2010, 12:30 PM

Have you logged a bug for this? If so, adding the bug link to your message would probably help get more votes for the bug.

how can i log a bug , i am new here ? and do you think they will really car for the report ?

Robb

03-02-2010, 04:21 PM

how can i log a bug , i am new here ? and do you think they will really care for the report ?

If you don't tell anybody about this bug, nobody will fix it.
Cause everybody is thinking the same thing:
somebody else will do it.
But in the end nobody does it. But everyone expects it to be fixed.
Geez ... software development.

I sugest a new plugin (best by Nokia to be installed by default)
- Bug reporting plugin.
Configuration would be your email account and phone number.

Robb

03-02-2010, 06:12 PM

how can i log a bug , i am new here ? and do you think they will really car for the report ?

http://maemo.org/development/bugs/

shadowjk

03-03-2010, 11:57 AM

Also don't forget even if a bug is already reported on the bugzilla, you can vote for it if you think it's important.

somekeystrokes

03-03-2010, 02:00 PM

If "rushing" refers to getting it out: yes, each feature that gets implemented takes some time and resources.

Would you like your device earlier, and with less features, or later, with more features? ;)

thts nt correct...
what is earlier or later here.?
whenever the device comes out it has to be with the best of features....had there been even more 'pressure' would nokia have released the phone without say messaging even?
NO, coz they considered it important...and other things unimportant...
tht shouldnt be the case...when u r launching ur flagship model it should be equipped with basic functionalities like mms, radio(pre-installed), equalizer, portrait mode and many others..

its not tht iam unhappy with my n900...im very happy.
but just commented on ur perspective with all the respect buddy.!