No mic means no OS upgrade?

[Joohan]

I saw at Nokias product site that a OS upgrade was planned for 2006 and it mentions VoIP capabilities but I was under the impression that the 770 doesn't have a mic or line-in. Is the 3.5 mm jacket a ordinary stereo output jacket or does it have line-in like the 3.5 mm jacket of the HTC Universal?


//Johan

[Milhouse]

Maybe VoIP will require a bluetooth mobile phone headset?

[JPB]

Maybe VoIP will require a bluetooth mobile phone headset?
Actually a good question that made me think and I found the solution I believe...

Of course with bluetooth !
A Nokia bluetooth headset maybe....
But my hunch is; just a normal Mobile phone from Nokia that we all use with new software, you dial your friend true the phone book in your Mobile Phone menu and choose "VOIP"

Don't forget the tablet comes without addressbook program and I found it strange that I can't access the sim card directory of phone numbers (apart from the files such as picts).
But your question triggered my answer on that pending issue.

Your phone will stay a phone with all the today's features. (addresses, camera, sms )
Calling somebody from your phone goes faster then with the tablet with one hand and finger.

So ! The tablet is just an accessory of your phone !
After all Nokia is not going to put themselfs out of business...

[Hedgecore]

Depending on the implementation, a USB mic/headphone combo may be a solution as well.

[Mythic]

I think one of Nokia devs mentioned long time ago that 770 HAS a microphone, but as there is no recoding app so feature was not mentioned in specification.

[FoulPlay]

There is a mic, it's placed at the bottom of the device near the 3.5mm jack. It's the tiny hole (looks like a manual eject button on a CD-ROM drive).

[Joohan]

Good news that there is a mic. That gives me hope that the 2006 upgrade might come for the current 770. VoIP is perfect when you want to use the tablet at home as a general internet device.


//Johan

[JPB]

I don't want to be difficult but how do you know that this is a mic....?
If it is a mic I wonder why Nokia makes that so (un) user friendly (i am a mac fan)
It can be just for ventilation.... or for aliens...
However the whole is there ! ;-)

[gareth]

There is a mic, it's placed at the bottom of the device near the 3.5mm jack. It's the tiny hole (looks like a manual eject button on a CD-ROM drive).
I was going to post about this hole earlier and suggest it was a mic. I shone a torch inside and couldn't tell. I thought if I posted it somebody would say "you idiot, that's a hardware reset hole" or something.

Anyway, if you held the speaker to your ear your right thumb would be over the top buttons, which makes sense, and the mic would be inline with your mouth. Only snag is your fingers would be wrapping around the end of the case.

Gareth

[JPB]

Keep looking in the whole... do you see an Alien ;-)
We need some mecenas that takes it apart like a video Ipod here: http://arstechnica.com/reviews/hardware/video-ipod.ars/6

[aditya]

that means no mic. no VOIP, i dont know how one app. in maemo site showed tat voip works.
also the developers should make a VOICE RECOGNISTION software for n770, that would be cool :D :cool:

[RogerS]

I too vote for voice-recognition software and also for text-to-speech software.

But everything I've seen requires way more cpu and ram than the 770 currently has. :(

I anticipate a long wait for it.

[avdigital]

Keep looking in the whole... do you see an Alien ;-)
We need some mecenas that takes it apart ...]

I opened my Nokia because some tea was spilled over it :mad: and I wanted to be sure that no harm was done and indeed I saw a little microfone beside the DC connector :) .

After carefully checking the internals of the device I came to the conclusion that no harm was done to the electronics. Lucky me :D

[daf]

it's not tea-proof ? :p

[JPB]

So now we have the answer on the first question: there is a mic !
That brings us to the next question: Did the tea turn you into a mecenas ? ;-)
Thanks !

[avdigital]

FYI: The little microfone was the same type they commonly use in cellphones (what a surprise :p ).

[JPB]

This brings up more questions:
Actually I wonder how this is going to work?
There is no way that you are going to bring this devise to your face to talk and listen unless you like to attract attention ......

Assumption N°1:
You don't have a phone - you only have access to Wifi.
Then you use the headphones - browse on the net - talk from a 50cm distance - use VOIP. Is this feasible?
The contact App is missing - so you need to call from a kind of Skype with your contact list build into that app.

Assumption N°2:
You have a phone in your pocket and no Wifi.
You connect to the internet trough your phone using GPRS.
You use the same program as with Wifi.
But why not then making a software for the phone and call straight from the phone VOIP.
Of course Mobile operators are going to block this or charge extra. This is competition. But of course landline operators are moving also towards VOIP.
I pay 32 Euro/month flat fee for GPRS on top of other basic phone charges.

Assumption N°3.
You have phone with you and access to Wifi.
You use your phone bluetooth including the phone speaker and mic - Call VOIP and use the tablet to jump on the net.
But then you don't have hands enough..... ;-)

Assumption N° 4
You trash your phone - you always have Wifi ??????? - you use headphones and the build in Mic. (Interesting possibility for people that don't have a computer, but just get a Wifi at home and Hotspot network of the provider in the city)


I could go on with possibities using a bleutooth headset etc....
I am missing pieces in this puzzle..
The mic doesn't make any sense yet for making calls.
But then again why not keeping the thing in front of your mouth......
Any ideas ?

[mikelococo]

Just to confirm, the 770 does have a microphone (http://maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2005-June/000315.html) (notice the @nokia.com e-mail address of the poster). I'm not aware of any end-user-ready apps that make use of the mic, though.

[bsarsgard]

Well, since it apparently has a very good speaker, if the mic is half decent it could be used as a speaker-phone natively, or attach a headset for a private phone.

I'd be happy to have it with me at all times as a speaker phone for a quick call, or pull the usb/bt headset out for a longer or private call.

[Hedgecore]

Providing it is a cell mic, you'd most likely hold it up to your head in the same ridiculous fashion as a full sized Blackberry.

[Remote User]

There is no way that you are going to bring this devise to your face to talk and listen unless you like to attract attention.
My kids have RAZR Bluetooth phones. I went to Walmart and got them earpieces for $45 each. Now they can keep their phones in their pockets when they're talking. Is this not how VOIP will work on the 770? There's a new SKYPE earpiece available now that specifically blends this same Bluetooth functionality with VOIP. I think we can count on the world's #2 cell phone manufacturer to provide us with an identical solution when they move to VOIP in the upgrade that they have been talking about. The Texas Instruments OMAP 1710 inside the 770 is designed to support this, by the way.

[Titus]

I think we can count on the world's #2 cell phone manufacturer to provide us with an identical solution when they move to VOIP in the upgrade that they have been talking about.

In US, Motorola is number one, but Nokia is world's #1 cell phone manufacturer. Motorola is second.

[dazwest]

My kids have RAZR Bluetooth phones. I went to Walmart and got them earpieces for $45 each. Now they can keep their phones in their pockets when they're talking. Is this not how VOIP will work on the 770? There's a new SKYPE earpiece available now that specifically blends this same Bluetooth functionality with VOIP. I think we can count on the world's #2 cell phone manufacturer to provide us with an identical solution when they move to VOIP in the upgrade that they have been talking about. The Texas Instruments OMAP 1710 inside the 770 is designed to support this, by the way.

Yeah, bluetooth will be the way for sure.
I doubt we'll be using Skype though as they use proprietary technology (boo!) and unless they develop the client there won't be one.
Open source developers are already working on SIP clients though :)

[Hedgecore]

Remote: True enough, though given those earpieces basically work as a microphone/speaker combo, perhaps the 770 can be used with the built in ones. I'm not saying it's preferred, but it'd be nice to at least have the option there (while hiding under your coat so nobody sees you trying to talk to a calculator) ;)

[Remote User]

I am intrigued by Nokia's decision to use Texas Instruments' OMAP technology, even if was the obvious choice to power the 770 because it's the leading chip in the latest generation of cell phones. At linuxdevices.com there's a new article on the newest OMAP, the 2430. http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS2420794631.html
It's a stunning performer and, as I've speculated before, I expect a 770 (870 or 780, perhaps) with a 2420 or 2430 in it next year. Nokia says that they don't want the 770 to have to compete with anyone's cell phone and I concur with that. Anyone who reads where the tech that powers the 770 is going can't doubt the amazing future that's unfolding, especially since Linux is emerging as the OS of choice for all of this
In an earlier article on the same web site TI talks about tools targeting specific market applications. TI says it will offer "software frameworks," "complete, application-specific software solutions previously built by OEMs
http://linuxdevices.com/news/NS2383518867.html

Now they're talking about what really interests me because that's what I did with X ten years ago; I built a framework for rapidly developing such application specific GUIs and solutions. Now that the hardware manufacturers are finally building wireless mobile devices that can connect to, and contain, vertical market GUIs and apps I couldn't be happier about the future. For the first time, all the components actually exist. Moreover, there is no price barrier to overcome and the value of the Free Software component is being recognized by all involved. It's The Perfect Storm.

[keb1717]

As per this review (http://arstechnica.com/reviews/hardware/nokia770.ars/2), it's a mic.

[Kiryu]

Yes, the microphone is right beside the power plug (the small hole).
http://aberco.free.fr/imagesdivers/micronokia.jpg

[JMills]

To add to this:

Nokia confirms presence of microphone (http://maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2005-June/000315.html)

I've been able to get audio pass-through to work just fine, but it did take some poking at SysFS nodes to get it to turn on. :-)

[bigboote]

To add to this:

Nokia confirms presence of microphone (http://maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2005-June/000315.html)

I've been able to get audio pass-through to work just fine, but it did take some poking at SysFS nodes to get it to turn on. :-)
How, pray tell?

[JMills]

How, pray tell?

Don't do this without headphones plugged in... you'll likely overload the audio subsystem with feedback.

From a shell prompt (i.e., inside `xterm` on the N770)
sudo gainroot
cd /sys/devices/platform/audio-i2c/
echo 1 > mic_enable
echo 1 > mic_loopback
echo 100 > gain_left
echo 100 > gain_right
echo 90 > volume_left
echo 90 > volume_right

Realize that as soon as the tlv320aic23 powers down (N770 goes 'dim') you'll need to re-enable the mic_loopback subsystem again by re-echoing '1' to it.

You might also want to dial the volume down after playing, 90 is almost max.

st_attenuation appears to apply filtering, but I haven't had enough time to play with it. Allowable values are at minimum {0, 1 .. 3}

[bigboote]

Thanks JMills!

Holy crap, it works! Forgive my linux ignorance, but does this mean there actually is a driver, or is this built-in demo a low-level hack?

How did you discover this?

John

[JMills]

Holy crap, it works! Forgive my linux ignorance, but does this mean there actually is a driver, or is this built-in demo a low-level hack?

Well... "sorta". :-)

Basically, what you're doing there is you're talking to the audio hardware directly, and telling it to flip a transistor-level switch to:

1) Enable the microphone input

...then another to:

2) Patch the microphone input directly to the speaker output

...then set some transistor-level variables to:

3) Increase the input gain
4) Increase the output gain (volume)


How did you discover this?

'cause I'm a nosy snot and spend my normal working hours looking at things we can do with -our- hardware platform (I work for VMware, Inc.)... so it was not unexpected that I'd spend some time nosing around the ProcFS and SysFS structures looking for as-yet undocumented things on the N770 as well. :-)

[bigboote]

Rockin. Keep up the good work, and keep us posted!

[Arjun]

An exploded(opened Nokia 770 ) image was posted at www.nokia770.com/forum.
It shows a Microphone within the Nokia 770. Whether it is still there in the final release of Nokia 770 is unknown.


:cool: :)

[Arjun]

I do knot know if this link will work.
But here it is anyway. This picture in the link shows that there is indeed an internal Microphone within the Nokia 770 IT.

img=http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/2940/770explodedview1xh.th.png


Or try the following Link. Scroll towards the bottom and u will finda reply by " Ze3Sl@k "

http://nokia770.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=28



:) :cool:

[Odin]

From a shell prompt (i.e., inside `xterm` on the N770)
sudo gainroot
cd /sys/devices/platform/audio-i2c/
echo 1 > mic_enable
echo 1 > mic_loopback
echo 100 > gain_left
echo 100 > gain_right
echo 90 > volume_left
echo 90 > volume_right


Is is complicated to have the mic output piped into a file? If not, then instant voice recorder.

[pgn674]

Is is complicated to have the mic output piped into a file? If not, then instant voice recorder.
Now that would be pretty cool. I think it'd be rather amazingly complex, though. But, with the new update, the increased built in features to support the VOIP might present a work around...