Long-time tablet user in need of convincing the N900 is for me... help?

[gerbick]

Mind you. I've used the 770, I still use the N810 on my trips or in my house almost daily. And have been following the jump to Maemo 5 with bated breath.

And yes, before it goes any further... I'm one of those "dreaded" Apple iPhone users. With that said, I'm one of those iPhone owners that would rather not be one, but at the time (and currently) it did what I needed in terms of social apps, location aware apps and instant messaging (for the most part).

I'm an Adobe Flash developer, so that's a strike against it already. I'm not tied to iTunes like I once was - in fact I tend to use my 120gb Zune now mostly for music - there's all of 4 songs on my iPhone. I do enjoy a quick/easy game, in fact I've been tapped on the shoulder to evaluate and get better versed with Unity3D. Which... I totally enjoy. But that's not on the N900 at all.

I will not evangelize the iPhone. I've lived through each and every growing pain that it could toss out at an user: random reboots, faulty updates, dropped phone calls, programs causing problems once installed, bad battery life in under a year, weird camera issues, multiple replacements (I'm up to 7 replaced iPhones in two years... no joke) and one faulty headphone jack that came out with just casual use.

Therefore I know that gadgets like the iPhone/N900 are not perfect. That's what warranties are for. And I'm not particularly rough with my gadgets either.

But with the talk of random reboots, faulty connectors, lack of applications (at the moment) and other issues that have been brought up here at TMO quite a bit, I'm starting to feel like I would be going backwards to the early days of the Apple iPhone and then re-suffering through to the days that I'd actually enjoy it. I actually have grown to "like" (read: I don't want to dropkick the damn thing on a daily basis) the iPhone, but I know there are better. I need true multi-tasking.

I need a phone that supports: Skype, VoIP, GTalk, Yahoo, MSN, AIM... and does so while I'm doing something else. Sure, I can actually be on the phone, send an MMS, then switch back to Fring without an issue and still be talking on the phone. I do that regularly - it's rather limited, but it is indeed some form of multi-tasking albeit not true multi-tasking. I want the real thing.

I do like an occasional game - I used to work for Sega. So games are still a part of my life. And I'm not too big on emulators, but I can appreciate them.

I know the N900 is the start... better yet, I know it's the 4th out of 5th step. But as it stands, I'm on the cusp of my contract with AT&T. And I'm seriously looking to replace the iPhone with something that I won't regret. Or better yet, with something that if I had to wait for it to grow up a bit, it won't be as painful as the iPhone.

Do any of you have any compelling arguments? I hate to be a bother, I'm honestly requesting the kind of comments that I see Texrat and Zerojay come out with. Those guys, despite we (them and I) being on different sides of the fence, I can still respect what they say and how they think.

Thanks in advance. This is a rather selfish thread, but I think that it would help others that need to hear true commentary on how this phone is - pros and cons. I don't expect perfection. I just am in the unique position to really not want to be in the same position I was during the pre-OS 2.x days. 3.x hasn't been all that bad to me.

MMS, location-aware apps that help me locate the cheapest gas (I use Where), some games (The Deep Pinball is my "crack" as is Konami's Pro Baseball) and the ability to connect to Facebook, Fring/Skype, the weather in a few locations, and I would call that a solid start.

[dmg]

Just buy one. If you don't like it, sell it.


-dmg

[gerbick]

Oh, forgot to say. I don't have the cash to waste. Thus I'd rather make a more informed decision than just buying it and potentially exposing myself to buyer's regret.

[eiffel]

Gerbick, I would just say this: if you (with your experience of the N810) have to ask, then the N900 is not for you.

Sure, it's step 4 out of 5, but some of the regressions from the N810 are just ridiculous. And the next model may be step 5 out of 5, but loads of things are being rewritten using Qt and will probably bring a whole new set of problems.

The N900 has great multitasking; it has a great browser; and it's fabulous that it has an officially-sanctioned X Terminal with root access available.

Other things are quite disappointing: the camera's hazy flash shots, the inability of the GPS to acquire a lock when being used as many of us wish to use it, the poor battery life, media library scanning problems in the stock media player, the stripe over part of the front cam images, inability to dial numbers containing star or hash, etc etc.

Apple hugely restricts their products, but what you get works pretty well. The N900 has limitless potential, but for now falls way short.

Regards,
Roger

[cBeam]

Just some personal views:

I really like the N900 and do not regret my purchase at all.

However, the device has some quirks that might or might not be a deal breaker for you:
- Mail for exchange implementation is not ready for prime time
- Syncing Google calendar is difficult, so far I was not able to sync satisfactory ( I need more than one calendar).
- Ovi maps 1.0 is unusable as a navigation tool for me.

Having said that, there are many things that just work without fooling around, like
- Browsing the web
- Skype integration
- Making basic phone calls
- etc, etc.

By the way, I do not have any problems with hardware or reboots at all, HW seems to be very solid..

If I were you I would look at the commitment that Nokia demonstrates to the N900 / platform. Many quirks could be easily rectified with proper software. Nokia is said to bring a firmware update until end of 2009. If they do a good job and improve the device into the right direction for you, then I would purchase. If they come out with something half baked not addressing many problems (or do not come out with an update at all) then I would pass and wait for something more mature.

[Laughing Man]

I would say wait. I like the N900 but I still find myself using the N800 at home since it has the bigger screen but more importantly the apps. Most of the good ones you want are either in testing or devel. Or they have not been created since the device is so new.

[fnordianslip]

I've been an N800 user for about 2.5 years and have had my N900 for about 2.5 weeks. I've not had any issues with mine so far, (no reboots, no need to reflash, no extras-testing/devel brickage) and I'm still well within the honeymoon period, which I expect will last at least a year :)

That said, you will have read about the problems other's are having, so at the moment it seems a bit like a QA lottery (although I wouldn't like to guess as to what the probabilities are in terms of getting a good or bad device). There are bugs, for sure, but I assume you're accustomed to those.

My major concern prior to getting the N900 was that the screen would be too small. I handled one twice in Nokia shops, and then had reservations about the size, feel (heft, materials, etc.) and the usability of the keyboard.

However, all that changed after mine turned up. Not once in the last two weeks has the thought crossed my mind that the screen is too small, and my fingers have got used to working with the keyboard.

I can't really comment on your specific use cases, but thought you might appreciate the perspective of another long time user who's switched to the N900.

[nilchak]

Hey Gerbick, I do know your viewpoint and its more balanced on both side - which is good.

Having said that - about the hardware faults of the N900 like reboothing etc ...
I bought an initial unit from Nokia USA store - no issues -
1) Mic worked fine
2) No Reboots
3) Calibration all correct
4) Battery life on par (as mentioned before)
5) Camera is good - not the best (as my N95)
and so on and so forth.
6) No dead pixels

All in all no issues found - of course I wont mention that it misses things which have been mentioned before in software (like MMS, portrait support etc).

Next I got an unit from Amazon (preorered) and I was worried about it - but even this unit functions same as the Nokia US store unit. No hardware issues.

I think on the first batch might have had some issues but subsequent batches are fine.
If that is your concern I think you can rest easy.
Of course you have been on these forums a long time to know the pros and cons of Maemo 5.

Edit : the keyboard (layout wise) takes some time getting used to - but once you overcome that hurdle - it is fast and nice to use.
And I am coming to the N900 from the N810 - and so far I have not gone back to the N810 inspite of the smaller screen which you don't feel much about after some time.

Only time I use the N810 is to listen to music from the external speakers as the speakers on the N800 / N810 is definitely better than the N900.

[Alan_Peery]

I've only had mine 4 days, but the additional CPU speed that the new processor has rendering pages in the web browser is very handy. I notice it most when tapping a column of text to zoom in on it. Unfortunately, the "fit width to screen" function seems to have disappeared, which largely balances out the speed.

I am doing a lot more offline web page reading lately, on all my devices, so network latency is less of an issue and you notice speed more.

[fnordianslip]

Unfortunately, the "fit width to screen" function seems to have disappeared, which largely balances out the speed.

If you fancy learning a variant of the Vulcan Death Grip, Ctrl+Shift+i will cause a reflow of the text which seems to do the job for me.

[Laughingstok]

What is frustrating to me is all the amazing things I've already done with my N900 that I really don't want to sit down and type out all the awesome things. In the same hand, I can say with 100% certainty that my N900 works flawlessly. (I've probably just jinxed myself. :D)

My uptime is currently over 10 days, and it was only restarted manually 10 days ago because of a test to see if the app-cache would clear under /. (It did)

Some things I have already done with my N900:

1. VPN into my work and controlled the point-of-sale system for over 800+ stores I babysit.
2. Sync'd all my calendar entries from my work to the N900 calendar.
3. Written and run my own tiny web-server in Perl that I can host web-pages off of. :D
4. Tuned my guitar with it.
5. Played Battletoads on the NES emulator and Super Mario Bros on SNES using a wii controller blue-toothed on an actual tv via tv-out cable.
6. Used Qik to do real-time video recordings over the web for a soccer game.
7. Watched some *cough* pirated t.v. shows using mplayer and kmplayer (mplayer will play everything that I've found) on our living room television using tv-out.
8. Streamed German internet radio through the FM transmitter into our surround sound speaker system in the living room.
9. Recorded a video of our cats fighting.
10. Taken numerous pictures.
11. Used VNC Viewer to control some of my LDAP boxes at my work which are running a KDE X-Windows.
12. Checked the weather.
13. Streamed mp3 music through my Jeep's stereo using the FM transmitter.
14. Played around with the GPS (though I already have another GPS in my Jeep so it was just for fun)
15. Numerous text messages via SMS, Google IM AND Skype.
16. Made a couple of Skype calls, and received a few.
17. Oh, made phone calls too. :D

There are quite a bit more things but I can't recall them all now. This phone has already become something I now rely on. Hard to imagine just 2 weeks ago I was living fine without it. :D

[bunanson]

...Other things are quite disappointing: the camera's hazy flash shots...

I just shot some pics with macro, It is quite good! Here are the pics, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=32951&page=20, thread #777

Other than that, N8x0 users will have a hard time to justify the smaller screen..............., it is not just a little bit smaller, it is VERY small :( . I guess for 1st time Nokia user, it may be alright. For seasoned N8x0 users, the small screen is quite annoying. Another annoying "regression" is the kick stand, it is a joke. Apparantly Nokia likes to do the opposite for whatever we cherrish, like the metal cover from 770 to N8x0, now the kick stand and the dpad from N8x0 to N900...... ummm, I got it now, hey, Nokia, I love the small screen, can you please make the N920 screen smaller, uh? A desparate call :(

bun

[joesphle]

Oh, forgot to say. I don't have the cash to waste. Thus I'd rather make a more informed decision than just buying it and potentially exposing myself to buyer's regret.

I don't think you going to disappoint it ..! people had the problem with their device may be just a small number out of bigger picture in the company sell , that common for any company not just Nokia alone especialy always happen with the new line product ..They will get much better eventually . Afterall my self don't have any problem since I had the device for the last 3 week everything run perfect as it is , if you 're web additive then this device could be for you . Good luck

[mikec]

Gerbick

I was one of the very first owners of the 770, I then bought a N800. I never upgraded to the N810 because I did not feel that it offered anything above the N800. I especially would have missed the dual SD card slot.

But in not getting the N810 I started to detach from this community. What the N900 has done is to bring me back. And right now I am enjoying the whole N900 Journey. Knowing there is going to be an N910 or whatever, actually excites me even more, cause I get to go on another journey next year when I know my N900 will not be able to avert my eye ;)

On the matter of affordability there is a side effect of the phone integration. ( I cant afford it either) but unlike the N8xx I get to spread to cost thanks to Vodafone :D

You are a long time forum member, and I would not be overstating the matter when I say that most people find your balanced opinions of value. I think that your experience with Flash will be of great value to this community (bring on Flash 10). But its difficult to play from the bench.

Now to the N900. Yes it has its issues, I am especially disappointed on the features missing from Mail for Exchange. As a Nokia E71 user I had assumed that Mail for Exchange was Mail for Exchange. Apparently not. But you know what, Vitaly Repin the lead MfE Engineer then turns up on the forum and starts getting involved with this community. That changed my mind, and reminded me why I like this place.

My N900 arrived 5 days after I ordered it. I have had no problems with it, and the having used it non stop for the last week, I am again reminded why I believed in the N770 N800, the browser is once again the best you can get on a mobile device. And the VOIP and IM are also well executed.

As long as you don't use it like an iPhone ie with the tips of your fingers and thumbs, but with your index finger turned sideways so the edge of your finger nail just makes contact, and flick instead of push,its speed is amazing. Double tap on a block of text and it zooms in just right to fit that block of text to the width of the screen. Double tap on the same block of text and it zooms back out. Again the resolution of the screen always amazes. Do I find it too small. Nope, the fluid zooming makes up for the screen size.

On the N900 there are lots of other features that are new, there are lots of features that are missing, but the browser makes up for it for me cause thats where I spend 80% of my time.

So what about the dual SD card slot, do I miss that. Well the 32GB internal and microSD card slot makes up for this, and is a feature still not available on any competing device with a keyboard.

So get that bloody N900, come along for the ride, cause we sure would enjoy your company.

[DaveP1]

As a fellow N810 user, I would have to advise waiting as well. I've followed the N900 threads both here and, for some of them, in Bugzilla. Nokia seems to be working on software fixes for some of the problems mentioned elsewhere in these forums. I am waiting to see if the number of problems dies down after the first major firmware update is pushed. I am also hopeful that it will include at least some feature improvements.

If I had to buy a phone today, I'd get the Droid. Android seems to be more polished than Maemo 5, I see fewer problems in the Droid forums, there are more apps and they are, again, more polished, and I can still get root if I ever wanted to. OTOH, I don't have to buy a phone today so I'm content to sit on the fence (painful as that can be) for a while.

[hypnotik]

gerbick,

You don't indicate which carrier you are currently on with the iPhone, and since you don't list your location in your profile, I can only speculate that you may be in the U.S.

That being said, the availability of the T-Mobile US 3G bands were a major factor in getting the N900. Like you I was using the iPhone though jailbroken on T-Mobile's EDGE network.

I still get random reboots occassionally - I have had a total of 5 in the nearly 4 weeks I have had the device. Not great, but the seem to be localized to only when I am using MicroB and /proc/bootreason lists a sw_rst so it's probably related to a software issue and not defective hardware.

Yes, I've learned to live without creature comfort apps from the iPhone (yelp, shazam, mint, etc) but for me, I on a personal level (as a hacker and developer) I had it with the app-Store control issues. It's a personal philosophy thing really, and my own choice for leaving and moving to the N900.

The other consideration for me from leaving the iPhone was the MyTouch 3G w/ Android, however, a physical keyboard was also something I really wanted again.

Regarding battery life - I rarely last an entire day without having to top up or swap batteries (I bought a spare), though I guess I'm a power-user. MS Exchange 2007 push + IMAP account, heavy browsing, texts, calls, etc.

The N900 for me is great, but it's not perfect, and it's something that I've had to realize requires time and effort to solve the problems that exist.

[bunanson]

As a fellow N810 user, I would have to advise waiting as well....

I think this is also my recommendation. What I am doing with the N900 now, is trying to make it function like an N810. There is no doubt N900 is going to be better then the N8x0 in the long run, better hw, more developed sw, etc. but not today.

I got the N900 because I 'need' to. I have no phone for over 1 year and I am at the right time to shop for one, and also my pet projects.... Go back to the phone, the quality of skype on the N900 is a lot better. N810 drops a couple of words for every 2-3 sentences and N900 drops zero words. I give the credit to more cpu power on the N900 then the a newer version of skype...maybe a combination of both.

Finally, there is no right or wrong. I agree to almost everybody's post on this thread. You want a new toy, go for it, you wont be disappointed. To the contrary, the N810 has NOT been replaced by N900 - not untill Nokia tidy up some of the lose ends.

If you are a married man, like I am, I do feel tremendous amount of guilt in spending so much $ on 'my' hobby while buying $50 or so christmas gift for my lady. This is ALL started with a 75$ 770 2 years back, and then the N800, and then... Yes, I have done rambling :)

bun

[gerbick]

You don't indicate which carrier you are currently on with the iPhone, and since you don't list your location in your profile, I can only speculate that you may be in the U.S.

I'm sorry about that. And yes, I'm in the southeast US - South Carolina to be exact - with an AT&T contract that will be ending very soon. T-Mobile, upon their purchase of Suncom means that the coverage in this area would be great (I travel a LOT less now) but if I continue on AT&T, I would lose 3G and I'm in a great 3G area at the moment.

That being said, the availability of the T-Mobile US 3G bands were a major factor in getting the N900. Like you I was using the iPhone though jailbroken on T-Mobile's EDGE network.

Friend of mine is doing the same... he's loving T-Mobile.

Yes, I've learned to live without creature comfort apps from the iPhone (yelp, shazam, mint, etc) but for me, I on a personal level (as a hacker and developer) I had it with the app-Store control issues. It's a personal philosophy thing really, and my own choice for leaving and moving to the N900.

Thanks for sharing this. Much appreciated. I'm starting to finally get a bit bothered with the limits of the app store myself. Just starting though. But I can see it growing to somewhere near where I think you're at now easily.

The other consideration for me from leaving the iPhone was the MyTouch 3G w/ Android, however, a physical keyboard was also something I really wanted again.

For me, it's the promise of Flash 10.1 player. That will assist me in my projects. Well that and a truly capable browser. I use Tear and MicroB and RARELY use the iPhone browser... only for quick Google searches.

The N900 for me is great, but it's not perfect, and it's something that I've had to realize requires time and effort to solve the problems that exist.

Thanks for your honesty. Thank you all for sharing your pros and cons in a fashion that I could wrap my little brain around it. I don't mind the tech specs, but for me - this time - it was more about the usability and how real people were using it. Sure, the fact it can be extended in darn near limitless ways has never escaped me - trust me, I take my N810 everywhere, only miss video calls with Skype - and it's been almost a laptop replacement.

The N900... I guess I'll have to continue lurking and reading you guys experiences and make an informed decision since it's not something I'll have access to quite yet since I'm not heading to the Nokia stores before they close nor any stores have it in stock quite yet.

Thanks again. It is appreciated. I've shared this thread with a few others who are on the fence.

[qole]

I've had an N900 for longer than most of the other old-time users here. I really haven't picked up either one of my N800s since I got my N900, except for testing Easy Debian and loading movies for my daughter to watch in the car... And when I did, I found it felt "clunky" and dissatisfying.

Having said that, I expect prices to come down over the next months. Wait till it comes down a bit and snap one up then.

[Megacrazy]

If you don't have cash to burn then simply keep watching for now. The firmware update will either make or break this phone. You will have issues with it if you are coming from the iPhone. The user experience is sub-standard if you decide to comapre. Also, tmobile 3G/3.5G kicks major *** when compared to ATT. They might also be subsidizing the phone in the future.

This basically reminds me of the N95. It was great when it came out but the problems started showing really fast. What did Nokia do? The N958GB which basically kicked ***. Just wait for the update.

[filbert]

I can't add much to what others have said. My usage is different to yours. My N900 is a replacement for a Palm TX (I want a TX with better web features). I use the PIM apps and he N900 versions are OK but not a patch on the TX yet.

The screen is a bit small for my older eyes but the quality is good and the zoom is easy. I like the keyboard more than I expected to (but it can be awkward). It's much lighter than the N810 - which I thought I would use a lot but the PIM apps weren't good enough, so it stayed in the drawer a lot.

My main reason for posting is to say that I've had no problems in the week I'v had it. (touch wood!)

Rgrds

Peter

[zerojay]

Hey... thanks for the nice words. I know we don't often see eye to eye, and I'm glad that's okay.

Knowing you a bit from being on the forum so much and reading what you said... I would personally recommend you waiting at least another two or three months before making your decision if you can.

The first major firmware update is probably going to render at least some of the negatives and positives about the current firmware moot, one way or another... and I think waiting the extra time will let you skip the awkwardness of early device syndrome, but also lets Nokia work out the hardware bugs, if any.

If it's a now or never sort of thing... I would tell you to wait for Maemo 6 and the hardware it will run on instead.

[gerbick]

FINALLY got a chance to play with a N900 today. It's a very nice device, feels solid, awesome build, the screen is cool too. Playing with it, felt like a natural progression from Maemo 4 - I still love the living daylights out of my N810 - and compared to my iPhone 3G... I can easily consider the N900 an option now... almost...

The phone is snappier than I expected on websites and the smaller screen didn't really bother me. I thought that it being a bit "chunkier" than my iPhone would bother me... it didn't. Having access to Flash websites destroys my iPhone browser experience.

But in the end, it's the lack of a few key things that will eventually bother me... and I know that saying this next thing will probably get me flamed.

The whole idea about "openness" is great in theory, but not in application when honestly a few apps would eventually be missed by me on my transition to the N900 from the iPhone.

Where (http://www.where.com/iphone/) has become almost essential to me. Instant location fix, I can locate cheaper gas in areas I'm not familiar, get my coffee fix... quickly find out the weather without having to input a thing. The GPS on the iPhone ain't the best, but it locks quickly. The GPS on the N900, my friend was having problems because he last locked almost 150 miles away last in Atlanta, GA and it took a while... shades of N810 again. I want to avoid that.

Power Pros (http://www.konami.com/touch/game.html) and The Deep Pinball (http://gameprom.com/tdp/) are my only two games that I'm addicted to - both are 3D, and only the pinball requires multiple touch, so that means it won't happen on the N900. I would actually miss those games - I play them when I'm bored, in transit (and not driving) and sometimes just to avoid talking to people.

TiltShiftGen, Snapture, Bing (yes, I use this), Convertbot, CNN, Epicurious (love to cook), Air Sharing, Priceless Picks, textPlus (free text messages), Bento, Alias Sketchbook (I'm a designer, sometimes I get ideas), Trapster and AS3 Reference are the apps I will honestly miss the most also.

Sketchbook could EASILY be replaced by Xournal - in fact, going from the N810 to the iPhone, Sketchbook replaced my Chinook/Diablo install of Xournal. Trapster... I could slow down (pfft, yeah right). AS3 reference... I could bookmark the Adobe reference website. But the rest - especially my reliance on textPlus might be a problem... but even then, I could switch to DialCentral and just use the Google Voice SMS feature instead.

But so far, I'm just still not seeing the kind of software that would compel me 100% despite the N900 being an "open" platform. I won't have the apps that make it easier for me to do a few things that I actually have begun to rely on my iPhone for - find cheap gas, find me (quickly) and above all, connect to a few online services without having to log in like I would if it were a website. Open is great... when it delivers.

But... it's damn close. I'll remain patient, my contract runs out VERY soon, and ultimately I will have to think ahead as to where I will go instead of AT&T. T-Mobile will have a cheaper per month price for me than my family plan with an iPhone and another line.

And to dispel one thing... each app I listed here was either free or under a $1 when I got it. Evernote being on the platform, as well as Skype, and SIP works out great. So does DialCentral. But there's a serious need for some other things that are location aware that are seen as "widgets" (not screen widgets, but lesser used functions) by most of you, but I'd need them to convert fully without being somewhat handicapped.

Awesome phone, appeals to my tinkering ways... just doesn't have a few things that I need the most at the moment I needed it the most (right now).

Good work Nokia, great phone/platform. Now, entice those developers!