Suggestion: Rename X Terminal to just Terminal

[pelago]

This would be in Brainstorm if it was fast enough to use comfortably, but as it isn't I'll post here. I think this is more for Maemo 6 than for current versions, as I can't imagine Nokia wishing to reprint manuals etc.).

My proposal is: Rename the "X Terminal" application to just "Terminal" (plus localisation equivalents if desired).

Some reasons: I know all about the original xterm which I first used back in 1992, but the Maemo X Terminal isn't related to that. This would fit in nicer with the other Maemo apps (Conversations, Web, Mail etc.). The X looks/sounds kinda geeky and doesn't really mean/add anything.

The underlying executable can stay the same, I'm just talking about how the app appears in the UI (launcher and its own title bar).

[nilchak]

How about leaving it with the X as a stamp of geekiness on an otherwise consumer device ?

[TA-t3]

I like xterm. But don't mind me.

[cenwesi]

lol, since we are at it, why don't we just call it DOS prompt :)

[brianez21]

Let's go for a long and platform agnostic name like Command Line Interface ;-)

[Tsippaduida]

Too long. Just call it the CLI. There cold be an appendix on the user manual where one could dig up the meaning.

[qgil]

Just curious: how would you feel about Maemo 6 not having a terminal app in the application grid out of the box but having a Ctlr-Shift-X shortcut to boot the terminal?

The purpose of the change being that pure end user don't have to wonder what to do with this, while power users and developers would have it just as handy.

[aspidites]

Just curious: how would you feel about Maemo 6 not having a terminal app in the application grid out of the box but having a Ctlr-Shift-X shortcut to boot the terminal?

The purpose of the change being that pure end user don't have to wonder what to do with this, while power users and developers would have it just as handy.

-1
I find it rather cumbersome to try and type ctrl+shift+x on my N900. Maybe if the shortcut were ctrl+alt(the arrow)+xl or alt+shift+x I wouldn't be so against the idea.

[thp]

how would you feel about Maemo 6 not having a terminal app in the application grid out of the box but having a Ctlr-Shift-X shortcut to boot the terminal?

Would be okay, as one would have to pull out the keyboard anyway to do anything useful in the X Terminal. The shortcut should be so that it's possible to activate with just two thumbs (and not so that the right thumb has to reach all over the keyboard from the right to reach the "X"). Right now, the Ctrl+Shift+X shortcut (that already works) is nice, but it's impossible to do without using three fingers. Maybe something like Ctrl+Bluekey+L (as in command "L"ine) could work. But of course, it depends on the hardware keyboard layout of the devices..

I would use the keyboard shortcut most of the time, but right now, the physical keyboard layout combined with the combination does not really make it that easy (maybe even on purpose?).

[pelago]

I've added a poll to the top of the thread.

[qgil]

The idea is that a user would not type the shortcut accidentally. Imagine a pure end user that has never seen a command line getting xterm by surprise while typing an sms...

But still, are you saying that shortcut only would be fine (a secondary thing is which shortcut).

[Sasler]

Just curious: how would you feel about Maemo 6 not having a terminal app in the application grid out of the box but having a Ctlr-Shift-X shortcut to boot the terminal?

The purpose of the change being that pure end user don't have to wonder what to do with this, while power users and developers would have it just as handy.

I find trying to press Ctlr-Shift-X with my little on the larger side fingers, anything but handy. :rolleyes: Whoever came up with that impossible combination, must be, with all due respect, a lilliputian (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/lilliputian)! :p :D

[andrewfblack]

Just curious: how would you feel about Maemo 6 not having a terminal app in the application grid out of the box but having a Ctlr-Shift-X shortcut to boot the terminal?

The purpose of the change being that pure end user don't have to wonder what to do with this, while power users and developers would have it just as handy.

Anyway to not have icon by default but still let us add it to desktop if we desire? How about a package that you could install that would add the icon?

[real_per]

Perhaps the next summit should revolve entirely around selecting the new name for the terminal.. ? (Sorry, couldn't help it :) )

But x-terminal is fine with me.

[fnordianslip]

Let's go for a long and platform agnostic name like Command Line Interface ;-)

Almost. Command Line Interface Terminal ftw. Actually, I see no point in changing its name.

[blubbi]

I would go for plain "CLI".

Behind this we can hide BASH, ASH, CSH or whatever comes to your mind.

Would be cool if you could configure the shell which will be started by hitting the "CLI" button.

Cheers
Bjoern

[qgil]

Oh, yeah, what about a dedicated key (à la Windows key) to boot the terminal? :P

Or to make it more device agnostic, what about this combination with the power key: long-short-short-long ("X" in Morse code) :P :P

[R-R]

Just curious: how would you feel about Maemo 6 not having a terminal app in the application grid out of the box but having a Ctlr-Shift-X shortcut to boot the terminal?

The purpose of the change being that pure end user don't have to wonder what to do with this, while power users and developers would have it just as handy.

Well that key combo right now is pretty painful to do on the N900 keyboard while holding the device.
But i wouldn't mind having to enable the icon myself not to confuse my grandma who could buy the phone too :-)

[floffe]

Or to make it more device agnostic, what about this combination with the power key: long-short-short-long ("X" in Morse code) :P :P
Absolutely!

But yes, a shortcut and no icon would be fine for me.

[blubbi]

What is so disturbing about the Icon...

There are many programs and Icons I don't know and I don't even know what to do with these apps... (like Facebook, Twitter and other such things...)

So I would like to have those Icons removed, cause they disturb skilled users...

I guess even the most stupid user figures out how to close the console application. All in all it is just another application and can be opened and closed as any other app.

Anyway, I was so amazed to see a X-Terminal without hacking around!

kind regards
Bjoern

[Laughing Man]

If you are going to do that please choose a better shortcut. Also what if the next maemo device does not have a hard keyboard? (unless your indirectly giving up info lol). I'd be fine with hiding it though, maybe put in settings to show the icons.

[range]

Oh, yeah, what about a dedicated key (à la Windows key) to boot the terminal? :P

Or to make it more device agnostic, what about this combination with the power key: long-short-short-long ("X" in Morse code) :P :P

But you'd have to shake the device three times (not four, not two) at the same time.

[Texrat]

lol, since we are at it, why don't we just call it DOS prompt :)

That's a hangin' offense around these parts. :D

[Texrat]

Almost. Command Line Interface Terminal ftw. Actually, I see no point in changing its name.

Ack! So...many...metaphors...springing to mind. Must...resist...temptation...

[freppas]

As an end-user I'm definitely for the idea of taking away the icon on the default, and then having a very simple way to add it if you want it.

My reasoning behind this is two-fold:

1. I like my things to run nice and tidy, so if I'm never-ever going to use this icon I never want to see it.

2. Next device will be even more mainstream and I think removing the icon will save around 5-6 useless threads being started in the future (this is a rough esimate based on no real numbers at all... in fact I came up with the number by accidentally glancing over at a phone nr. so the exac number of useless threads prevent is probably highly debatable)

[livefreeordie]

What is so disturbing about the Icon...

There are many programs and Icons I don't know and I don't even know what to do with these apps... (like Facebook, Twitter and other such things...)

So I would like to have those Icons removed, cause they disturb skilled users...

Exactly! This is a horrible idea. The trend to hide all advanced functionality does nothing to actually help beginners, and makes everything annoying for advanced users.

And I immediately spot several other problems:

Psychological: Having a "real" icon, it will feel like a thought-out, integrated part of the device. Without the icon, it'll feel like some kind of cheat code and afterthought. You'll never feel quite as confident using the terminal.

Advertising: Maemo has to fight Android and Palm for the attention of the nerd crowd. Just having a visible terminal icon makes a huge statement, for zero cost.

Existing users: You're already going to add DRM, and removing the terminal will just reinforce the idea that you're corrupting Maemo. The DRM is understandable since you have to be able to sell even the content of assho1es, but it's going to be an image hit for sure. Why make it worse?

Learning: don't you think the terminal will actually make some n00bs curious, rather than scare them? (In which case there's a nice friendly X in the top right corner)

[livefreeordie]

1. I like my things to run nice and tidy, so if I'm never-ever going to use this icon I never want to see it.

Yeah, I'm an end user too. Let's start a list of things to tidy up. I'd like the following removed:

Getting started - completely useless to me
Simple calculator - Almost TI is SOOO much better
Ovi Store GUI - duplicates functionality from apt-get(8)
Backup - SUCKS compared to rsync(1)
facebook
Notes - Ed is the standard editor, not "Notes"(??)


Edit: IN FACT, why do I need any of these cluttered icons when I have a keyboard? I vote for the default screen to be all black, waiting for keyboard input. Then we could start programs by typing in their names, and you'd never have to see the names of programs you don't want to run. That would be the cleanest interface ever.

[j.s]

Just curious: how would you feel about Maemo 6 not having a terminal app in the application grid out of the box but having a Ctlr-Shift-X shortcut to boot the terminal?

The purpose of the change being that pure end user don't have to wonder what to do with this, while power users and developers would have it just as handy.

No. There have been so many steps backward from previous tablets, so it was very nice to have it out of the box as a step forward. It is already hidden on the second page.

Instead of shifting all the cost of making a system usable onto terminal users, why not allow easy deleting of icons by the user? There are quite a few I would like to delete or replace, such as an RPN calculator for the useless included calculator.

[archebyte]

Just curious: how would you feel about Maemo 6 not having a terminal app in the application grid out of the box but having a Ctlr-Shift-X shortcut to boot the terminal?

The purpose of the change being that pure end user don't have to wonder what to do with this, while power users and developers would have it just as handy.

I think Maemo6 should have the X-Terminal out-of-the-box. keeping it hidden would remove the geekiness that I associate Nokia with when I see the N900. At the Summit, Jaaksi (VP Maemo), was upbeat about having the X-Terminal icon and shortcut "in case you want to show non-techies, whats so cool about linux"

If a non-techie, opens xterm, as is confused, nothing is lost. All users are smart enough to close an app they don't like or understand. The terminal opens up with regular user privileges anyways so the probability of a noob causing a catastrophe is insignificant. Better yet, the terminal might make a techie out of a noob.

The X-Terminal icon sets the N900 apart from other devices. I think Nokia should continue to showoff its geekiness with Maemo6 rather than being paranoid and try hard to hide it in the interest of 'end users'.

[blubbi]

I totally agree!

[jjx]

"GNU/Linux Terminal" of course! :-)

I vote for keeping the icon. It's not like there aren't lots of other icons in the apps list that most people will never use and never find out what they do.

X-Terminal is the most used icon on my desktop and occupies a prominent spot. I use it more than Contacts, Phone, Calendar and Conversations, because I use the terminal to read my email.

If I had to type an awkward key combo to read my mail, that wouldn't be very convenient at all.

[Milhouse]

As has been said already, removing the icon makes shell access feel more like a cheat code rather than a fully supported feature of the platform, and might even become the thin end of the wedge with shell access dropped completely from Maemo 7 (or whatever).

Power user access is perhaps the greatest thing Maemo has in it's favour in comparison to the other platforms, so dumbing it down doesn't seem like the best move.

I vote to keep the xterm icon as it is now (although it could do with a better icon, see bug #7315 (https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7315)), and add a one-time warning (sort of like "Here be dragons!" in the Firefox about:config) if there are concerns that end users may stuff up their devices because they don't know what they're doing.

As for a name... Terminal works for me (as it is in Ubuntu).

[mullf]

I just call it xterm.

[ArnimS]

Just curious: how would you feel about Maemo 6 not having a terminal app in the application grid out of the box but having a Ctlr-Shift-X shortcut to boot the terminal?

The purpose of the change being that pure end user don't have to wonder what to do with this, while power users and developers would have it just as handy.

Makes a lot of sense to not confuse users with that.

The shortcut would be ok, or:

- no shortcut, xterm installable like any other package.
- shortcut+bundled_hidden_xterm -- but becoming visible with a .desktop icon after installing the xterm (icon) package.

[lma]

Just curious: how would you feel about Maemo 6 not having a terminal app in the application grid out of the box but having a Ctlr-Shift-X shortcut to boot the terminal?

On a personal level it doesn't make much difference (I know how to roll my own and I'm sure that if Nokia takes the launcher away there'll be a community package in extras restoring it the following day).

On the other hand, taking it away is going to make asking users for debugging data that much more difficult. It's already bad enough when we have to explain how to become root or (heaven forbid) enable the tools repository and install sysklogd but also having to explain how to start the terminal is a step too far IMHO. So I'm against it, please don't make the terminal an easter egg.


The purpose of the change being that pure end user don't have to wonder what to do with this

It's just a command line terminal, not alien technology. Every desktop OS has one so users generally know what it is even if they don't know (or care) how to use it. For users who have never used a personal computer before a) everything is going to seem strange and b) a "mobile computer" is probably not what they want in the first place.

[reviver]

Started thinking about removing the xterm icon and for me it would be acceptable to not have it out of the box. I definitely understand the reasoning of extra icon that most users will have no use.

On the other hand I think most smartphone users know that there is a mysterious command line in their Win/Linux/Mac. This could very well be one of the things that will give them the impression that they are holding a small computer instead of a phone.

It is also a symbol of openness that can score major points with the hardcore crowd and maybe some points even with people who will not actually end up using it, but understand what it is.

I would consider myself too biased to make a rational choice though :)

[Helmuth]

If you are going to do that please choose a better shortcut. Also what if the next maemo device does not have a hard keyboard? (unless your indirectly giving up info lol).
The next maemo device will have a multitouch Display, so STRG+SHIFT+X on the Screen is also possible. (or impossible because of the lack of skill)

But I will also prefer a option to add a X-Terminal Icon manually!

[jjx]

add a one-time warning (sort of like "Here be dragons!" in the Firefox about:config) if there are concerns that end users may stuff up their devices because they don't know what they're doing.

I think the one-time warning is a great idea.

After all, it already warns about every single app that you install...

Rather than being a single line, it could explain what the terminal is in newbie terms (Linux, command line...), and provide Ok / No Thanks buttons. There should be a way to reinstate the warning, for after you did something with the terminal on someone else's Maemo device :)

[MrGrim]

I think a repeat warning is better. If a visiting geek 'deflowers' the terminal and removes that warning, the regular user might well be lost afterwards
I vote for a line going something like "Here you can type commands to be executed" printed in the terminal itself (like the output of a 'cat') before it starts accepting commands. Informative, reliable, unobtrusive (regular users will just ignore it) and easy to implement :D
As for the icon: make it stylish and leave it there. Show that there's more to the beast than beats the eye

[richie]

I think a repeat warning is better. If a visiting geek 'deflowers' the terminal and removes that warning, the regular user might well be lost afterwards
I vote for a line going something like "Here you can type commands to be executed" printed in the terminal itself (like the output of a 'cat') before it starts accepting commands. Informative, reliable, unobtrusive (regular users will just ignore it) and easy to implement :D
As for the icon: make it stylish and leave it there. Show that there's more to the beast than beats the eye

Great minds think alike, I had the same idea and did this screenshot,

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_0G2-S6qEWq0/S0opKQRoBqI/AAAAAAAAAXo/y87scS-EBI8/Screenshot-20100109-195223.jpg

I don't really like the idea of a shortcut to start the Terminal, for similiar reasons that others have posted here. I think shortcuts work for things like cut and paste, but not the Terminal. It should remain as an icon, but perhaps with a friendly message that tells the curious where to get more info, or those not interested to close it.

Rich

[pelago]

Thanks for all the votes. So at the time of writing there is roughly a 2:1 majority prefer Terminal (49 votes) over X Terminal (25 votes). Is Nokia likely to see this, or should I link to it via Brainstorm or bugs.maemo.org?

[qgil]

Here it's fine. :)

[soeiro]

Just curious: how would you feel about Maemo 6 not having a terminal app in the application grid out of the box but having a Ctlr-Shift-X shortcut to boot the terminal?

The purpose of the change being that pure end user don't have to wonder what to do with this, while power users and developers would have it just as handy.

-1
I think that there is no harm for a pure end user if he or she clicks in Terminal. If he doesn't like or understands what it does, he or she just have to tap on the close button (big x).

Somewhat related, I do think that you guys could review the decision of not having menu items for things that already have shortcuts. I think all available options should be placed on a nice menu entry. That's the most user friendly way of presenting an interface for new and basic users. For more advanced users, there could be a help page listing the available shortcuts.

[qgil]

Just exploring possibilites: what about finding it under Settings?

You could always add a shortcut from the home if that matters to you.

[noobmonkey]

Just exploring possibilites: what about finding it under Settings?

You could always add a shortcut from the home if that matters to you.

I agree with the general direction Q is going in....
Name doesn't really matter, but how you access it and what you can do in it is probably a better question.

Generally i feel it is is a development tool (Well, geeks play-thing) - there are some uses a normal user like myself may use it for, and that is probably debugging when i screw something up....

Other then that, i agree it is probably a system tool. - and putting it in system makes sense.
Not sure there is any need to get rid of the X, as the word terminal is still visible.

If i was told to use terminal (is there any difference in adding an X? - terminal on it's own makes me think of windows and terminal services...) And told where to go... thats enough for me :)

[Jaffa]

Just exploring possibilites: what about finding it under Settings?

Conflating application startup and the control panel seems... messy.

You could always add a shortcut from the home if that matters to you.

You'd basically implement this by having the standard /usr/share/applications/hildon/osso-xterm.desktop but then adding <Exclude>osso-xterm.desktop</Exclude> to /etc/xdg/menus/hildon/applications.menu (or wherever's appropriate after #5743 (https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5743)).

[richie]

Just exploring possibilites: what about finding it under Settings?

You could always add a shortcut from the home if that matters to you.

I suppose so, though did you see the screenshot of the suggestion myself and MrGrim made,

http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=462720&postcount=40

[pelago]

I don't like the idea of the Terminal only being available via Ctrl+Shift+X, as that seems too hidden to me (even as a power user, I might forget how to bring it up!). Putting it in Settings seems a bit strange too, although I can see why you would like to group all of the semi-dangerous things together.

[benny1967]

Just curious: how would you feel about Maemo 6 not having a terminal app in the application grid out of the box but having a Ctlr-Shift-X shortcut to boot the terminal?

The purpose of the change being that pure end user don't have to wonder what to do with this, while power users and developers would have it just as handy.

I wonder if this is a real problem that real people have out there ("what's this application?") or if it's just a solution to a non-problem. Windows users had this terminal at least until XP - I'm not sure about recent versions, don't use them much. Still, they had no problem with it. Why would Maemo users?

Anyway... The only way I could live with this is if I could revert to the sane behavior (=terminal visible as an application) by editing a *.desktop file, typing a magic command after I first launched the terminal or shaking the device while dancing on one leg.

The proposed key combination is just impossible on the current keyboard. Actually, all Ctrl+Shift-combinations are a PITA. If this is the only way to start the terminal, it means there's no practical way to start it at all... and then it would be better to just not include it and have it in Extras for those who want it. (Which may be the better solution in the first place if Nokia has doubts about the terminal app.)

[Brank]

my 5 cents:
Rename to Terminal
Agree with benny about keeping the app in view for everyone, maybe not straight in your face if M6 devices are more for umm.. "normal" end users, so hide it under tools or something similar. Also keep access to root privileges hidden.
Have a app that remembers all key combinations(with main combinations for "normal" end users locked) and allowes easy allocation of combinations for any app one chooses. Bascially the UI for adding a shortcut to desktop, but when you click a app you can bind keys to it.

maybe qgil proposing such insane feats of finger acrobatics is hinting M6 devices will have some more room for fingers? ;)

[ZShakespeare]

While we're at it we should change all the references of 'Debian' to 'PenguinOSXP2010'.

It's called X Terminal because it's a terminal emulator for the X-Windows system. It's been that way for years, and there is no reason to change it. If the naming confuses you, you might consider an iPhone instead. I hear that they are easy.