Adobe Flash Player 10: When will the update arrive? Is it coming at all?

[Spotfist]

If in say 3-6 months time most websites have updated to flash 10.1, would it also not be right to assume that Nokia would no longer be able to sell the n900? Surely you can't sell a smart phone that doesn't work?

Another question is, how does the lack of flash effect our contracts with Nokia? when I purchased my phone I wanted a "full" web experience and thats why I got the n900, if in 3 months time that is no longer possable then where do I stand as an EU citizen? Surely I can claim on the fact that a service was promised and then removed within x months?

[ossipena]

http://uk.reuters.com/article/idUKTRE64R1DI20100528

(Reuters) - Nokia sold less than 100,000 top-of-the-range N900 smartphones in its first five months on the market, researcher Gartner said, indicating it has yet to mount a serious challenge to the iPhone and Blackberry.

I can't see Adobe or many other developers bothering with a population that small....

even if that enables the support to future population of MeeGo?
this naturally isn't true if meego and maemo don't work with same player at all...

[Spotfist]

even if that enables the support to future population of MeeGo?
this naturally isn't true if meego and maemo don't work with same player at all...

This is true, surely Nokia can see that an implimentation on flash 10.1 in maemo now will allow for easily transfer to any future meego platforms thanks to QT? Surely no matter what Nokia say, flash 10.1 will in no doubt make it's way to the n900 thanks to QT?

[jackabite]

QT is a high level API that is unlikely to deliver the kind of development tools required to build the Flash plug-in. Low-level access to the system APIs will be required and they are going to be very different on MeeGo.

[Spotfist]

Does anyone know ehre would stand legally with regards to this issue as per my post above? At wat point do Nokia get fedup with our moaning and hand over ALL source code regarding the n900 so as to further the development of the n900 off our own backs?

[attila77]

A slightly technical side note. Flash on the N900 (Maemo) is AFAIK closer (=based on) the desktop version of Flash. All the others require a radically different approach (one of the reasons why Adobe specifically ports things to Android, BB and whoever). So from Adobe's pont of view, there isn't really much to announce for Maemo, it's a NPAPI based Linux build. As in, not much more than they want to announce things specifically for Ubuntu, Fedora, etc. Now comes the sticky point of the porting kit. Hey, here's this Linux porting kit ! Cool. But... does it support PowerVR hardware/drivers for the acceleration, 'cause its not that common on PCs ? Does it support ARM for non-desktop builds ? There can be many hidden gotchas Nokians could be forced to work around before it actually works on the N900 (we know from comments on the N800 that they ARE adding in Maemo-specific patches). Now you ask, if that is the case, why not fire back a volley at Adobe and say 'hey, its not that simple', but a) Nokia employs underpromise approach and/or b) They do not want to endanger future cooperation with Adobe on MeeGo/Symbian by bickering over a deprecated platform. On another side note, while we are speculating, one could say the no commercial support for MeeGo announcement would have been a good spot for Flash, too. It's always better dealing with 1 backlash instead of 2.

Does anyone know ehre would stand legally with regards to this issue as per my post above? At wat point do Nokia get fedup with our moaning and hand over ALL source code regarding the n900 so as to further the development of the n900 off our own backs?

Considering the license requirements of Flash 9, you'll never see that source code (not more than you see Flash 9 source code for Linux). Even Flash 10.1 is just in baby steps phase in this regard.

[Spotfist]

You think that adobe would be the ones saying to the likes of Nokia and other phone manufactures "if it's possable, a port of 10.1 to your current phones is a requirment of any future licensing agreements" it is a bit tough for Adobe to be making demands so I can understand this not being the case but surely Adobe could be at least alkting to campanies like Nokia saying, "we will give a discount on licensing if you port 10.1 to your current line of phones where applicable" as for Adobe it's just more users and therfore more market share.

As for source code I meant of meamo 5, so custom firmwares could be developed...?

[SD.]

You think that adobe would be the ones saying to the likes of Nokia and other phone manufactures "if it's possable, a port of 10.1 to your current phones is a requirment of any future licensing agreements" it is a bit tough for Adobe to be making demands so I can understand this not being the case but surely Adobe could be at least alkting to campanies like Nokia saying, "we will give a discount on licensing if you port 10.1 to your current line of phones where applicable" as for Adobe it's just more users and therfore more market share.

As for source code I meant of meamo 5, so custom firmwares could be developed...?

Flash Player 10.1 is royalty free so there are no discount incentives they can give. From their FAQ (http://www.openscreenproject.org/about/faq.html):

Adobe is making the next major releases of Flash Player and AIR for devices royalty free — across all platforms, desktops, and devices — for Open Screen Project participants. Current products such as Adobe Flash Lite® software are not affected.

Future versions starting with the next major versions of Flash Player and AIR for devices are royalty free as part of the Open Screen Project. However, a license (contract) still needs to be in place between Adobe and the licensee.

[SD.]

Also interesting it says on their FAQ

"Adobe and Nokia are the first contributors to the Open Screen Project Fund."

[SD.]

The processor puts the N900 out of the hardware requirements spec posted on April 22:
http://www.adobe.com/devnet/devices/articles/content_mobilization_faq.html#q07

They are saying it needs a 800mhz+ Cortex A8 not 600mhz+.

Nokia and Palm have no devices like that released or announced.

That could be why Adobe is saying "Flash Player 10.1 will be available on Android Market by mid-2010." and "We expect Flash Player 10.1 to support other mobile platforms in the second half of 2010."

So is Adobe actually holding them back from releasing?

It could harm their image if Flash runs too slow wouldn't it?

I don't see what the big deal is though especially with FP9 running on the N900 already, they should upgrade it. FP10.1 wouldn't be slower than FP9, it would obviously be faster. But maybe Adobe is trying to play the newer-software-version-numbers-needs-newer-hardware card.

[SD.]

Well the mystery deepens because the CTO of Adobe said just a week ago that the Motorola Droid(600mhz...) is getting Flash 10.1. Who knows if that was a misspeak though cause I thought Motorola is preparing the Droid 2 right now.

But if it does come to the Droid we have a right to complain.

[fatalsaint]

The processor puts the N900 out of the hardware requirements spec posted on April 22:
http://www.adobe.com/devnet/devices/articles/content_mobilization_faq.html#q07

They are saying it needs a 800mhz+ Cortex A8 not 600mhz+.

Nokia and Palm have no devices like that released or announced.

That could be why Adobe is saying "Flash Player 10.1 will be available on Android Market by mid-2010." and "We expect Flash Player 10.1 to support other mobile platforms in the second half of 2010."

So is Adobe actually holding them back from releasing?

It could harm their image if Flash runs too slow wouldn't it?

I don't see what the big deal is though especially with FP9 running on the N900 already, they should upgrade it. FP10.1 wouldn't be slower than FP9, it would obviously be faster. But maybe Adobe is trying to play the newer-software-version-numbers-needs-newer-hardware card.

A) It seemed to work in the Demo

B) No android device currently (short maybe the N-One) have those kinds of specs. Yet, I do believe many older device are being told they are going to be able to get 2.2 (anyone confirm?). But, the N-one is a 1Ghz snapdragon, with no dedicated GPU - so whether it's any faster is in question..

C) 800mhz doesn't seem to be outside the realm of possibility for the N900 if the O/C thread is to be believed.

But, I suppose it's theoretically possible that Adobe decided after their demo that the N900 processor just couldn't provide the proper "user" experience on all the different websites that use 10.1. While some may work, others may be too slow, etc. But - and again I need confirmation and sources - but I thought the Harmattan device coming 2010 had pretty much identical hardware to the N900, just with capacitive touchscreen over resistive. I'm fairly certain it's a Cortex A8, but I'm not sure of the speed.. I coulda swore there was a wiki page or a post somewhere outlining it's specs but I'm failing to find it quickly.


ETA:

It's good to be back YoDude ;), and thanks! Good post, and good to see you again.

[SD.]

A) It seemed to work in the Demo

B) No android device currently (short maybe the N-One) have those kinds of specs. Yet, I do believe many older device are being told they are going to be able to get 2.2 (anyone confirm?). But, the N-one is a 1Ghz snapdragon, with no dedicated GPU - so whether it's any faster is in question..

C) 800mhz doesn't seem to be outside the realm of possibility for the N900 if the O/C thread is to be believed.

But, I suppose it's theoretically possible that Adobe decided after their demo that the N900 processor just couldn't provide the proper "user" experience on all the different websites that use 10.1. While some may work, others may be too slow, etc. But - and again I need confirmation and sources - but I thought the Harmattan device coming 2010 had pretty much identical hardware to the N900, just with capacitive touchscreen over resistive. I'm fairly certain it's a Cortex A8, but I'm not sure of the speed.. I coulda swore there was a wiki page or a post somewhere outlining it's specs but I'm failing to find it quickly.


ETA:

It's good to be back YoDude ;), and thanks! Good post, and good to see you again.
Yea good point it worked in the demo, so if it does come to the Motorola Droid that's even more ammo.

The N1, Droid Incredible, EVO 4G and Samsung Galaxy S all have 1ghz processors, and the Motorola Shadow/Mirage/Droid2 is rumored to have one too.

OCing isn't considered at all by Adobe or Nokia... That Harmattan device could come out with a 1ghz+ 45nm chip. I read a comparison the other day that 45nm 1ghz Samsung Hummingbird chip in the Galaxy S is better than the Snapdragon. Texas Instruments and Qualcomm are going to release something new at that size later this year(they use 65nm chips right now).

[fatalsaint]

Yea good point it worked in the demo, so if it does come to the Motorola Droid that's even more ammo.
AFAIK: There's no way to "hide" an app in the Android Market from some devices and not others. So if they release it to the market, it'll be installable by any Android device that uses the new Market. (Had to specify new, as there is some differences I guess in apps in the "new" market to the "old" market of the G1/Cliq.. at least so says my friend with a CLIQ). However, this comes with the caveat that: Just because it's installable, doesn't mean it'll work. So we'll have to see if it works on the Droid.


The N1, Droid Incredible, EVO 4G and Samsung Galaxy S all have 1ghz processors, and the Motorola Shadow/Mirage/Droid2 is rumored to have one too.
Rumored phones I'm not considering. They could come out with Dual-core mobile phones tomorrow for all it matters. I'm looking specifically at right now.. and apparently I've been a lazy bastard at researching phones since I got my N900. I had forgotten the EVO 4G and Galaxy S.


OCing isn't considered at all by Adobe or Nokia... That Harmattan device could come out with a 1ghz+ 45nm chip. I read a comparison the other day that 45nm 1ghz Samsung Hummingbird chip in the Galaxy S is better than the Snapdragon. Texas Instruments and Qualcomm are going to release something new at that size later this year(they use 65nm chips right now).

I very highly doubt the Harmattan device will be re-engineered to use a new processor released at the same time as when it comes out. I say that primarily because at the time the N900 was designed, the 256MB internal flash was all they had (in my understanding) - so even though there are better internal flashes now we still got the N900 with all it's rootfs size limitations because re-engineering it is out of the question.

So the Harmattan device will use something that was already on the market, likely I'm thinking sometime last year. But yes it could be a 800mhz+ Cortex A8 vice the 600 we have now. I thought, as I said, this was specified somewhere but I can't find it. I must be tired today.

[MiK546]

It just got an idea from updating my Ubuntus Flash to 10.1 beta. Since the Flash is just an .so-file in .Mozilla/plugins, could it be possible that some Android-owner would give us their libflashplayer.so (this would then be for ARM-devices) and we could use it.

[ossipena]

It just got an idea from updating my Ubuntus Flash to 10.1 beta. Since the Flash is just an .so-file in .Mozilla/plugins, could it be possible that some Android-owner would give us their libflashplayer.so (this would then be for ARM-devices) and we could use it.

it is worth trying but I wouldn't count on that working...

[ZogG]

It just got an idea from updating my Ubuntus Flash to 10.1 beta. Since the Flash is just an .so-file in .Mozilla/plugins, could it be possible that some Android-owner would give us their libflashplayer.so (this would then be for ARM-devices) and we could use it.

I got leacked froyo and didn't file that file there. tried that =(

[fatalsaint]

The .so file is specific to Firefox, I believe.

Thus, android would have to use Firefox, to get an ARM port of that .so file. They don't. Android has it's own browser, and flash has been written specifically for that.

So as ZogG said.. I don't see that working.

Now, something like that could likely work if Flash 10.1 reaches Harmattan or MeeGo.

[stlpaul]

What if the N900 "Flash 10.1" demo last year was really just flash 9.4 demo while talking about flash 10.1? The TBS.com website demoed works just the same on our N900 today...

[garyc2010]

Why Why Why

does everyone want Flash 10 ???????????

The N900 is an "open platform"

why do we want bloated, buggy closed proprietary code ??

we should keep the N900 totally open and banish this rubbish and get Nokia to open up its proprietary code.

if we add any more closed code we may as well just go and buy iphones.

but wait, didnt apple banish flash as its too buggy and closed ?

[stlpaul]

Because websites require flash, and most of us would rather have the ability to use them if we choose (even if we don't like flash)

[Texrat]

Newsflash!! They are doing so on their platform and not the web. Plus, they possibly can't control the media on the internet because of H.264 now, can they?

Speaking of newsflashes, you've missed some.

By deliberately excluding Flash from its ecosystem, Apple is challenging online media publishers who depend heavily on Flash-- and their numbers are legion.

So, yes, Apple is seeking to control the web... or at least, multimedia aspects. You might want to look into how Apple benefits from H.264 deployment.

Complaining about Apple making choices for you as a bad thing when you knowingly buy their products, is the same as that silly thread complaining about the N900 letting people install from Extras-devel.

Strawman. I don't buy Apple products. But I reserve every right to express my opinions and objective assessments about their approach to business.

[Dunsurfin]

Why Why Why

does everyone want Flash 10 ???????????

The N900 is an "open platform"

why do we want bloated, buggy closed proprietary code ??

we should keep the N900 totally open and banish this rubbish and get Nokia to open up its proprietary code.

if we add any more closed code we may as well just go and buy iphones.

but wait, didnt apple banish flash as its too buggy and closed ?

Not so much want, but need. I purchased the N900 to use as a netbook replacement. The size of the device may make some applications less easy to use (small keyboard, etc.), but I can take it with me pretty much everywhere.

There are certain websites that have content only available as Flash 10. Without Flash 10 support, my N900 is less useful.

It is easy to get Adobe and Nokia to put Flash 10 on the N900 than to get the sites to drop Flash.

I don't like having to use Flash, but I hate not being able to use Flash when I need to. Full Flash support was how the N900 was marketed - I would like Flash 10.1 support now.

[slartibartfass]

What is flash 10.1 and why does everyone make such a rumor about it?

[ossipena]

What is flash 10.1 and why does everyone make such a rumor about it?

you'll find out after every website has abandoned flash 9...

and gl accelerated video gets my vote.

[ysss]

Why Why Why

does everyone want Flash 10 ???????????

The N900 is an "open platform"

why do we want bloated, buggy closed proprietary code ??

we should keep the N900 totally open and banish this rubbish and get Nokia to open up its proprietary code.

if we add any more closed code we may as well just go and buy iphones.

but wait, didnt apple banish flash as its too buggy and closed ?

Because "being able to eat junkfood" is a big part of having freedom...

[MiK546]

Well, androids browser is based on WebKit, so maybe it would be possible to still get Androids Flash 10.1 working on Tear and/or Midori.

[stlpaul]

Well, androids browser is based on WebKit, so maybe it would be possible to still get Androids Flash 10.1 working on Tear and/or Midori.

Webkit supports netscape plug-in API (in addition to webkit plugin format), so it's still at least possible that they might use the NSAPI plug-in...

[geneven]

If in say 3-6 months time most websites have updated to flash 10.1, would it also not be right to assume that Nokia would no longer be able to sell the n900? Surely you can't sell a smart phone that doesn't work?

Another question is, how does the lack of flash effect our contracts with Nokia? when I purchased my phone I wanted a "full" web experience and thats why I got the n900, if in 3 months time that is no longer possable then where do I stand as an EU citizen? Surely I can claim on the fact that a service was promised and then removed within x months?

I'm sorry you aren't in the US; I would enjoy your legal battles to prove that you didn't get the "full" experience. I hope you have fun in Europe with the same. Personally, I don't think you have a case.

[Maemomd]

http://uk.reuters.com/article/idUKTRE64R1DI20100528

(Reuters) - Nokia sold less than 100,000 top-of-the-range N900 smartphones in its first five months on the market, researcher Gartner said, indicating it has yet to mount a serious challenge to the iPhone and Blackberry.

I can't see Adobe or many other developers bothering with a population that small....

Not true. The news was corrected, 100,000 sold in the first 5 weeks, not months.

http://www.slashgear.com/nokia-n900-has-sold-well-in-excess-of-100000-handsets-gartner-figures-seriously-wrong-claims-source-2887458/

Whoever was the source of the first figures, shame on them, the wrong figures are out all over the web. Engadget corrected their post begrudgingly.

I have been a Maemo supporter since the 770. What happened on the 770 happened due to chip support, which was not fun for me, but when the chip can't handle it, that's that.

The n900 is a totally different case, since, yes it does have chip support for 10.1. I have been part of this community for a long time, was absent for a year, lost my ID and password due to Outlook issues, and had to start over with MaemoMD. I also have a few contacts on the higher up in Nokia I will ask; my schedule is atrocious, but I will post if I hear anything.

[thiago]

The response I got from Nokia before I purchased it:

Dear Mr. Thiago Souza,


Thank you for e-mailing the Nokia Care Contact Center. We are glad that you are interested in N900.

With regard to your inquiry about the site with a version10 flash player while the N900 has a 9.4 version, it will not be able to support the H.264/MPEG-4 AVC standard for video compression and AAC streaming media.

It is possible that the flash player version will be updated to version 10 when the 2nd release of the software comes out. The 2nd release of the software may come out next year, its either January or February.

Regarding the form, do you mean the form online? If you have a hard time accessing the online page we suggest that you contact our Sales department at 1-866-596-6542. Operating hours are from Monday-Friday, 9:00am-9:00 pm EST and Saturday from 10:00am-7:00pm EST.

If you have any additional questions, please don’t hesitate to contact us again. To ensure proper handling of your case, kindly continue using the current subject line.

Thank you very much for your email. Have a great day!


Kind regards,
Rosalie L.
E-mail Specialist
Nokia Inc.

[fatalsaint]

It is possible that the flash player version will be updated to version 10 when the 2nd release of the software comes out. The 2nd release of the software may come out next year, its either January or February.


This actually kind of bugs me: Does anybody else here notice how they conveniently didn't point out that the N900 will not be receiving any official upgrades to this "next" version of the software?

At least, I'm taking this comment to mean the next release of the OS (like Harmattan).

The only other way to take it is.. Maemo 5 is getting an upgrade in both software codecs and browser next year?

[Bundyo]

I got leacked froyo and didn't file that file there. tried that =(

Well, it should be downloaded from Adobe's site, not included in the FW AFAIK.

[sophocha]

What if the N900 "Flash 10.1" demo last year was really just flash 9.4 demo while talking about flash 10.1? The TBS.com website demoed works just the same on our N900 today...

Now, that`s what I said since day one!The framerate seems to be the same.....their demo was a flash 9.4 demo!

I think we`ll get Flash 10.1 when the new N8 and the new N1000 are out with full flash 10.1....then we`ll get our update....typical NOKIA

[gerbick]

Ok... I know I get heckled for not owning a Nokia N900; however for the life of me I cannot locate an e-mail that was in response to my question(s) about Flash.

It was, according to the person that did respond from Nokia - which, I doubt knew more than any of you in this forum, that Flash Player 10.1 was slated to come out around this time of the year.

So I held off. My contract with AT&T expires in 3 days, and I was hoping to purchase a N900, switch to T-Mobile (who just recently upped their coverage in my are) and save a few bucks.

It didn't happen. Adobe CS5 shipped, I'm in the middle of making the move to Flash Builder 4 (Flex 4) and Flash CS5, and despite being part of the Adobe CS5 beta tester group... I can't show my own experiments and work on my phone, tablet, or anything more portable than a laptop.

With my N810, I could show my Flex 3 and Flash CS3 and Flash CS4 work while using a smaller, pocket linux based wonder. It showed them that the projects were viable on even a smaller (high resolution though) screen.

And I'm still a Flex dev. It pays the bills. Lately, being a Linux/AIX admin has been my fallback, but it doesn't equate to why I wanted the N900. It supported my livelihood, Flash does, that is.

And to hear from a Nokia representative that I were to look forward - in a definite manner - to Flash player 10.1, to have seen it at Adobe MAX last October and for nothing to have surfaced as of yet... I might have to buy something that will support my livelihood as well as help get me away from AT&T.

The N900 was supposed to do that. No longer. And the answers from Nokia are either definitely wrong - as in the case in my e-mail experience - or definitely vague.

And dammit... I wanted to get away from this damn iPhone!

Sorry. Just felt like ranting about how it seems like all I want are definite answers so I can invest wisely and not get left behind or worse... not be able to support my livelihood.

[nosa101]

Now, that`s what I said since day one!The framerate seems to be the same.....their demo was a flash 9.4 demo!

I think we`ll get Flash 10.1 when the new N8 and the new N1000 are out with full flash 10.1....then we`ll get our update....typical NOKIA

The n8 is getting Flash Lite 4 and not flash 10.1

[Maemomd]

Ok... I know I get heckled for not owning a Nokia N900; however for the life of me I cannot locate an e-mail that was in response to my question(s) about Flash.

It was, according to the person that did respond from Nokia - which, I doubt knew more than any of you in this forum, that Flash Player 10.1 was slated to come out around this time of the year.

So I held off. My contract with AT&T expires in 3 days, and I was hoping to purchase a N900, switch to T-Mobile (who just recently upped their coverage in my are) and save a few bucks.

It didn't happen. Adobe CS5 shipped, I'm in the middle of making the move to Flash Builder 4 (Flex 4) and Flash CS5, and despite being part of the Adobe CS5 beta tester group... I can't show my own experiments and work on my phone, tablet, or anything more portable than a laptop.

With my N810, I could show my Flex 3 and Flash CS3 and Flash CS4 work while using a smaller, pocket linux based wonder. It showed them that the projects were viable on even a smaller (high resolution though) screen.

And I'm still a Flex dev. It pays the bills. Lately, being a Linux/AIX admin has been my fallback, but it doesn't equate to why I wanted the N900. It supported my livelihood, Flash does, that is.

And to hear from a Nokia representative that I were to look forward - in a definite manner - to Flash player 10.1, to have seen it at Adobe MAX last October and for nothing to have surfaced as of yet... I might have to buy something that will support my livelihood as well as help get me away from AT&T.

The N900 was supposed to do that. No longer. And the answers from Nokia are either definitely wrong - as in the case in my e-mail experience - or definitely vague.

And dammit... I wanted to get away from this damn iPhone!

Sorry. Just felt like ranting about how it seems like all I want are definite answers so I can invest wisely and not get left behind or worse... not be able to support my livelihood.

That is understandable. Have you checked out the N1 for Tmobile, you can continue on with your work with that for now, and if/when 10.1 comes to N900 (probably Q3 if it does, and if it doesn't, well you got Froyo) you can get the N900? Or you could wait and get the new Moto Droid Shadow coming soon to Verizon...but Verizon will be soon killing unlimited data for pay per gig. Fun.

[qole]

As I said elsewhere on the forums, my source was Head of Maemo Operations, Mountain View. He came and gave a MeeGo presentation to a few of us in Vancouver, and I asked him specifically about Flash. He surprisingly gave a straight answer about it (most of my other questions were deflected) and said definitively that it wasn't coming for the N900.

I want you all to know that I would be ecstatic if he was wrong. It just doesn't seem very likely that he was wrong.

His other half-answer to me was correct. When I asked about PR 1.2, he said it would be out before the end of May. That seemed to be pretty accurate.

He's a witch. qole turned me into a newt.....I got better.

Yeah I only cast temporary spells. Mostly because I run my magic inside a chrooted witch image; closing the chroot kills all the spells I've cast.

[nosa101]

Ok... I know I get heckled for not owning a Nokia N900; however for the life of me I cannot locate an e-mail that was in response to my question(s) about Flash.

It was, according to the person that did respond from Nokia - which, I doubt knew more than any of you in this forum, that Flash Player 10.1 was slated to come out around this time of the year.

So I held off. My contract with AT&T expires in 3 days, and I was hoping to purchase a N900, switch to T-Mobile (who just recently upped their coverage in my are) and save a few bucks.

It didn't happen. Adobe CS5 shipped, I'm in the middle of making the move to Flash Builder 4 (Flex 4) and Flash CS5, and despite being part of the Adobe CS5 beta tester group... I can't show my own experiments and work on my phone, tablet, or anything more portable than a laptop.

With my N810, I could show my Flex 3 and Flash CS3 and Flash CS4 work while using a smaller, pocket linux based wonder. It showed them that the projects were viable on even a smaller (high resolution though) screen.

And I'm still a Flex dev. It pays the bills. Lately, being a Linux/AIX admin has been my fallback, but it doesn't equate to why I wanted the N900. It supported my livelihood, Flash does, that is.

And to hear from a Nokia representative that I were to look forward - in a definite manner - to Flash player 10.1, to have seen it at Adobe MAX last October and for nothing to have surfaced as of yet... I might have to buy something that will support my livelihood as well as help get me away from AT&T.

The N900 was supposed to do that. No longer. And the answers from Nokia are either definitely wrong - as in the case in my e-mail experience - or definitely vague.

And dammit... I wanted to get away from this damn iPhone!

Sorry. Just felt like ranting about how it seems like all I want are definite answers so I can invest wisely and not get left behind or worse... not be able to support my livelihood.

If you are going to get Android, get the Nexus One. Until google releases the rumored Nexus Two, the N1 will be the first Android updated with any new firmware. I've even considered getting it too.

[devu]

My very trust source at Adobe said today in personal email, and this is only thing I allowed to say.


It was actually Nokia that did the work to show the N900 with Flash
Player 10.1

[nosa101]

My very trust source at Adobe said today in personal email, and this is only thing I allowed to say.

But wasn't that an Adobe presentation?
If I remember the video, he demo'd it on another device, a tablet


EDIT: Kevin Lynch is the Adobe CTO. He demo'd it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pee3nT4bPw4

Or are you saying, Nokia ported it for that presentation?

[NvyUs]

i remember some one reporting from MWC months back that a adobe rep said that they had sent Nokia the code a while ago and it was down to them to do the work and release it on n900

[Frappacino]

thanks for the clarification quole

Your post should be stickied to the top of this forum.

[devu]

Ok... I know I .....

I am truly understand your statement. This whole situation turnd me from N900 lover to anti Nokia person.

I'm in love to N900 by accident. everything about device itself it's just great.
Just perfect. All about software and politics behind it just screwed me up.
Within2 months from enthusiastic all what is going on here turned me to skeptic about any movement. Yes it's only about flash 10.1 announcement and this is only my perception and point of view. I still having signature as you can see. But I have body protector that cover Nokia logo, guess why... When my contract will expire that will be the last company under my consideration. End of story and journey with that company for me...

No matter how big miracle they can produce in the future.

[devu]

But wasn't that an Adobe presentation?
If I remember the video, he demo'd it on another device, a tablet

EDIT: Kevin Lynch is the Adobe CTO. He demo'd it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pee3nT4bPw4

Or are you saying, Nokia ported it for that presentation?

It was Adobe presentation. but companies delivered them some stuff to present.. right? The source is trusted for me. Kevin lynch was exited to show as wide range as he could to present to the world.

"I have an revolutionary solution for any company around the world. In my own interest its to push it on the market as many companies can be involved its better for me... so I will provide the spec. and wait for results.

I've got some feed-backs. Let's do a conference to amaze the world.
One of company was actually cheating..... what we can do about it?

[gerbick]

I am truly understand your statement. This whole situation turnd me from N900 lover to anti Nokia person.

That's where we differ. I'm not anti-Nokia... I am, however, against Nokia's silence. They just don't communicate well.

[devu]

That's where we differ. I'm not anti-Nokia... I am, however, against Nokia's silence. They just don't communicate well.

Ant this is only reason why I'm against Nokia. 90% of this ridiculous threads should' exist if they could say any single world. Yes or No.
Yes or No could tell me a lot when I had to decide.

[ysss]

Nokia: Staying Stoic.

[jakiman]

My very trust source at Adobe said today in personal email, and this is only thing I allowed to say.

So. Nokia gave Adobe an N900 that worked with Flash 10.1 about 8 months ago.
So we know that "technically", N900 will work with flash 10.1 as it did before.
(unless Adobe/Nokia was lying and it was actually Flash 9.4 they were demoing as if it was 10.1)

But, we will never see it? and Nokia is calling this a mobile computer? A mobile computer that gets outdated within 1 year and can't browse the web like other competitor's mobile phones? and no upgrade path to one of critical components that they have been touting all this time?

So I'm stuck with watching super low bad quality youtube videos from my web browser while other mobile phones are able to play higher quality ones?

It's obvious that they don't care too much about the N900. If I was head of Maemo, I would try very hard to ensure N900 users/devs are super happy so that they will continue supporting and buying future Harmattan/MeeGo products.

[Frappacino]

So. Nokia gave Adobe an N900 that worked with Flash 10.1 about 8 months ago.
So we know that "technically", N900 will work with flash 10.1 as it did before.
(unless Adobe/Nokia was lying and it was actually Flash 9.4 they were demoing as if it was 10.1)

But, we will never see it? and Nokia is calling this a mobile computer? A mobile computer that gets outdated within 1 year and can't browse the web like other competitor's mobile phones? and no upgrade path to one of critical components that they have been touting all this time?

So I'm stuck with watching super low bad quality youtube videos from my web browser while other mobile phones are able to play higher quality ones?

It's obvious that they don't care too much about the N900. If I was head of Maemo, I would try very hard to ensure N900 users/devs are super happy so that they will continue supporting and buying future Harmattan/MeeGo products.

Dont you know, you should be patient and if you wait long enough, Nokia will surely do the right thing.

[jakiman]

Dont you know, you should be patient and if you wait long enough, Nokia will surely do the right thing.

I've bought and owned around 7 Nokia phones in the past 10 years. I've had some other brands but I guess at the end, I'm fairly a loyal Nokia customer. I've waited and waited for the N900. They did do a great job with the device. But I surely didn't expect MeeGo transition, N900 being the ONLY Maemo5 device in the world, No official MeeGo support from Nokia, no Flash 10.1, pathetic OVI store, no sign/communication of official Nokia Maps voice guided navigation support which other much cheaper Nokia phones get....

Mind you, I LOVE this phone and still, there's not even a single phone I would rather have instead. Community is awesome also with some amazing apps/games/themes etc. But Nokia really needs to show their love of device to us a little more I think. I know they are doing some of it but not often enough....

[Dave999]

Chat with nokia sweden...

http://translate.google.se/translate?hl=sv&sl=sv&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mobil.se%2Fnyheter%2FLasarna-chattade-med-Nokia-1.360340.html

[Raubtier]

Chat with nokia sweden...

http://translate.google.se/translate?hl=sv&sl=sv&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mobil.se%2Fnyheter%2FLasarna-chattade-med-Nokia-1.360340.html

you should create a seperate thread with that chat, very intersting! thanks!

he is more or less saying that ovi maps with navigation is NOT coming!

concerning flash 10:

Andrew: Hey, what about flash 10.x on an N900. Will there be the ability to run Flash 10.x on N900? If yes, when can you expect it?

Nokia: Hi, There have been many who ask it and I have had some email. In the current situation we can not answer that but we will return. Sincerely, Klas

[Dave999]

you should create a seperate thread with that chat, very intersting! thanks!



well. when I create threads, they get out of line and end up with over 7000 posts ;)

[arbitrabbit]

<Rant>
Hmm, I do love my N900 but the way Nokia has treated us N900 owners, I sure as hell am not buying the next Meego or Nokia phone for that matter, purely as a matter of principle. If I want an open handset, I would probably go Android next time. Nokia didn't quite get the open source philosophy...it is not just about using your users to write code for you for free but it is also about open roadmaps and more importantly open communications. But this doesn't mean that I am abandoning my N900. Hell, I absolutely love the things this device can do and for my usage it is the most perfect device out there as of today. However that is not to say that other devices in future won't bridge this gap and currently there are two companies in my blacklist whose devices I definitely won't buy....Apple and Nokia. Used to be just Apple earlier because of their tendency to control the overall user experience but now Nokia is part of the list, for treating its customers like **** (or if they don't want to treat us like **** then for not communicating things more openly so that people don't feel like ****)
</Rant>

[Primal]

Chat with nokia sweden...

http://translate.google.se/translate?hl=sv&sl=sv&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mobil.se%2Fnyheter%2FLasarna-chattade-med-Nokia-1.360340.html


If Nokia cannot fully support their flagship device, then what hope is there for future models, most current models are pushed on to the market far faster than the software can be fully developed, but this has been standard practice at Nokia for some time (the N80 sucked big balls initially, so did the N95, so did the N97 but they got better once updated) The N900 has now had 2 major updates, but with confirmation that no voice navigation will be forthcoming, why buy their flagship model, when lesser models get working voice navigation and a far superior Ovi maps for free....

Certainly Nokia will never capture the smartphone market like this.

And the Flash silence furthers concerns that owners of the N900 will be dumped once the first working Meego phone appears, which i would put bets on being pushed out as early as Q3 2010.

What would instill confidence in both Nokia and the new Meego OS is for Nokia to push this out to both N900 owners, and new devices this instantly show faith in the OS, and fits in with their 3 OS policy.

[gerbick]

Primal, you'll have many folks around these parts argue that the N900 was never a "flagship device"... thus if Nokia supports it or not past it's present condition; no expectations were ever set.

Or something like that. I totally disagree with that sentiment but it seems to be somewhat prevalent as of late.

[nosa101]

The n900 is not a flagship device but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be supported.

Nokia has a good plan with their 3 OS system. Two niche OSes and one mainstream.

The problem is not with the plan but with the execution.

[Primal]

The Adobe open screen project does list Arm and Nokia as partners in a project to bring Flash 10.1 to mobile devices, http://www.openscreenproject.org/partners/current_partners.html

http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/pressroom/pressreleases/201002/021510FlashPlayerQuoteSheetMWC.html
Also there is a contact email of the project leader at Adobe, it might be worth an email to them, after all they did showcase flash 10 on a N900 over 6 months ago, it would be rather embarrassing for them to not release Flash 10 for a phone they showcased it on.

[gerbick]

The Adobe open screen project does list Arm and Nokia as partners in a project to bring Flash 10.1 to mobile devices, http://www.openscreenproject.org/partners/current_partners.html

http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/pressroom/pressreleases/201002/021510FlashPlayerQuoteSheetMWC.html
Also there is a contact email of the project leader at Adobe, it might be worth an email to them, after all they did showcase flash 10 on a N900 over 6 months ago, it would be rather embarrassing for them to not release Flash 10 for a phone they showcased it on.

Embarrassing for whom? Adobe has stated that all questions should be directed to Nokia and Nokia ain't talking. And that Open Screen Project lists Nokia as a partner; no details of which OS it will be for beyond Symbian at the moment.

Again... Nokia ain't talking...

[S0urcerr0r]

its extremely irritating that SGX530/535 gets so little support. PowerVR seems to share very little information about low-level programming. instead everyone has to rely on their low end API's and outdated drivers.
According to TI their OMAP3430 should handle hardware accelerated H.264 decoding in realtime, with the help of the IVA 2+ (...dont know if that is PowerVR related as well)

it seems that most multimediaapp developers have a hard time integrating codecs that take good use of the IVA 2+
its like the N900 performs just a tad bit better for movie playback than the N810 does (with no driver support at all), so it feels like theyve left out the hardware acceleration and only used the "600mhz vs. 400mhz" for improvement... these issues shouldnt exist if PowerVR/IVA2+ would come with proper support for developers.

could this be the reason that Flash10.1 probably isnt coming?

i cant see any reason to not support Flash 10.1, if it isnt because there is insufficient documentation, API's, or the worst case wrongly specified hardware (IVA2+).

the N900 is a device where we are used for experimental releases... so nokia should just release the Flash10.1 experimental edition and it may suffice for now.

[HellFlyer]

If Nokia had N900 with flash 10.1 then we just need someone to steal that prototype and extract flash package :)

[Frappacino]

lol if that nokia guy is not allowed to respond it means its not coming

same pattern for all other denied n900 stuff like meego etc

they were not allowed to resond either

[S0urcerr0r]

actually i think that flash10.1 will come to the N900... theres no reason at all that it wouldnt.

i mean - the Motorola Droid will get it with Android 2.2, and the Droid have identical SoC with N900 - the OMAP3430

so with that in mind Flash10.1 theoretically already runs on our N900's hardware :)

if nokia wont bring it maybe theres some hope that someone really skilled makes a hack based on the droid files and bring it to the N900

[javispedro]

its like the N900 performs just a tad bit better for movie playback than the N810 does (with no driver support at all)
WHAT? The average video resolution has, quadrupled? That's quite a noticeable improvement, and entirely comes from using the DSP in the IVA. Good luck getting any pre N900 device to play a full screen video without pixel doubling...



Btw, so what's so cool about Flash 10.1? Has anyone done any benchmark about the supposed "accelerated codecs"? As per the minimal hardware requirements, they're just the same codecs they have been shipping forever but built using NEON instructions. And they are probably already built using NEON on the N900.....
I really doubt there's any kind of "extra" hardware acceleration, because if it was, they would either have to tap into the operating system for it or the code would quickly become an unportable mess.

[taril]

You will get adobe flash 10.1 for N900 after Apple iPhone 4 would get it! :-D :-D :-D

[Frappacino]

>> theres no reason at all that it wouldnt.

nokia will have to pay to get it ported and tested for the n900

obviously they are not willing to pay

end of story

what is so cool about flash 10.1?

how about being able to access website content once the web starts to move onto 10.1 permanently and drop support for 9.4 ?

[S0urcerr0r]

i guess we'll have to depend on hacks then which may not be so bad after all.
motorola droid (omap3430) will get it soon, so hopefully there should be some usefulness in pillaging its flash files :)


WHAT? The average video resolution has, quadrupled? That's quite a noticeable improvement, and entirely comes from using the DSP in the IVA. Good luck getting any pre N900 device to play a full screen video without pixel doubling...
woaw, sorry, i guess that is an improvement, but some videos ive tried playing is 576x272 and even then there are some framedropouts sometimes... i dont know if its because of the VSync driver problem or if its the OS thats flushing the virtual memory.
im want to use the N900 extensivly for TV-out purposes, where the framedrops becomes more disturbing.

the thing is that ive never seen a company that have got release quality drivers from PowerVR... the sony vaio p netbooks is still having alot of driver issues even though theyve been around for a year.

but dont get mee wrong - im deeply impressed with the N900 with maemo. i consider it very powerful, and thats why it would be even nicer if those final touches were made :)

[javispedro]

woaw, sorry, i guess that is an improvement, but some videos ive tried playing is 576x272 and even then there are some framedropouts sometimes... i dont know if its because of the VSync driver problem or if its the OS thats flushing the virtual memory.
Well, it's able to play back its own camera videos, which are 800x480 MPEG4 AVC, and ofc the 9.mp4, Nokia N900.mp4 800x480 MPEG4 ASF.

motorola droid (omap3430) will get it soon, so hopefully there should be some usefulness in pillaging its flash files
I've said this on some other gaming thread, but note that the most similar platform to the N900, by quite a large margin, is the Palm Pre. Both in hardware and software. The Pre is not 800x480, but still. The Pre even uses NPAPI for plugins!

(I have _unmodified_ source code that runs on both the N900 and the Palm Pre --- no #ifdefs -- thanks to SDL).

[slaapliedje]

Well, it's able to play back its own camera videos, which are 800x480 MPEG4 AVC, and ofc the 9.mp4, Nokia N900.mp4 800x480 MPEG4 ASF.


I've said this on some other gaming thread, but note that the most similar platform to the N900, by quite a large margin, is the Palm Pre. Both in hardware and software. The Pre is not 800x480, but still. The Pre even uses NPAPI for plugins!

(I have _unmodified_ source code that runs on both the N900 and the Palm Pre --- no #ifdefs -- thanks to SDL).

That's the most interesting post out of this entire thread! I wonder if we as a community should see how much Palm Pre software is out there that could be easily ported over to the N900.

More apps the better. I still am of the opinion that Flash 10.1 will eventually come to the N900. Whether through grabbing it from a similar device or from Nokia or even from porting some of the reverse engineered versions of flash (gnash, lightspark). As long as we have compatibility with flash 10 sites, I think all will be well. Lightspark even uses OpenGL for acceleration. Time will tell.

slaapliedje

[anaskr]

we can pay nokia?? or i guess we already did for an experiment mameo farewell device?

[Frappacino]

>> we can pay nokia ??

hehe after your mameo farewell experience do you still want to ?

i would rather pay adobe. Wonder if that is a serious alternative

[S0urcerr0r]

javispedro:
thanks for the answer. ok then, i didnt know flash10.1 was on its way to the palm pre as well. it will be interresting to see if it can be done... i will probably make a low qualified try. and im gonna try to find out and compare what OS files gets added/modified between the releases (with, and without flash10)

[Spotfist]

The more I read threads like this the more I worry I bought the wrong phone, for months I thought about it, wat I needed, wat would do the job I required. The N900 came up top trumps, it still is a great phone but reading threads like this I fear that it will just slip into the shadows...

Nokia refuse to say yes or no, honestly if they had a demo of flash 10.1 on the N900 then what is going on? What kind of company treats it's customers like this? Honestly the guys managing this kind of stuff need to be sacked! If this is how things carry on surely there will be no people left to buy the next Nxxx????

[Bundyo]

Hmm, doesn't Android browser still use NPAPI?
http://sseyod.blogspot.com/2010/01/android-npapi-plugin-how-to-make.html

Or maybe they switched to Pepper (https://wiki.mozilla.org/Plugins:PlatformIndependentNPAPI) already?

[felbutss]

over it............

1: flash is not evil. nokia is evil.

2: how can u make applications that flash can with HTML??? lol

3: has anyone here developed in flash before like i have???? its more then just video

4: flash 10 has GPU and accelerometer support. flash 9 has software rendering.

5: lol ummm try to do a full animation in HTML code lol lol lol

http://www.ebizmba.com/articles/best-flash-sites
http://www.webdesignerwall.com/trends/30-artistic-flash-sites/


6: when flash is ready for mobile devices then well c whos the man.
isnt MicroB open source????? why cant we just install it as a plug-in


7: flash 10 will come as a hack 100% if anything

[gerbick]

This whole talk about companies being "evil" is amusing to me. It is like they raped you or something.

Face it. Nokia is out for money. And as long as they can tap the open source crowds with promise of a $600 phone that's more open than the others and it gives them (the user) a sense of pride to have access to a terminal and SSH... ****. I would so do that too.

Nokia is a company. If you live or die, it doesn't matter to them.

[Flynx]

7: flash 10 will come as a hack 100% if anything

I have a question about that.

So flash is closed-source. But it runs on linux, and it runs on arm, so what - exactly - are the technical issues getting it to run on maemo?

EDIT: or easy debian?

[S0urcerr0r]

I have a question about that.

So flash is closed-source. But it runs on linux, and it runs on arm, so what - exactly - are the technical issues getting it to run on maemo?

EDIT: or easy debian?

im not qualified to answer that... but i would think it requires some mods to the webbrowser and some mods to maemo - emulating some parts of android... and in worst case maybe also some emulation of sound hardware... if those things can be done with high level emulation there should not be a significant speed drop.

android is open source and if the webbrowsers supporting flash10.1 also is open source, it may be doable in a not to far away future

...if the targeted flash10.1 will be pillaged from palm pre im not 100% sure what will be required

[javispedro]

Hmm, doesn't Android browser still use NPAPI?
http://sseyod.blogspot.com/2010/01/android-npapi-plugin-how-to-make.html
Well, the Pre also uses PulseAudio, gstreamer, ... :D

[extendedping]

This whole talk about companies being "evil" is amusing to me. It is like they raped you or something.

Face it. Nokia is out for money. And as long as they can tap the open source crowds with promise of a $600 phone that's more open than the others and it gives them (the user) a sense of pride to have access to a terminal and SSH... ****. I would so do that too.

Nokia is a company. If you live or die, it doesn't matter to them.

ok lets look at apples stock, then read some apple iphone boards and compare this to nokia's stock and read these boards. I do agree neither cares if you live or die, but it seems one at least giving the impression they care about existing users has not actually hurt the company.

[ysss]

ok lets look at apples stock, then read some apple iphone boards and compare this to nokia's stock and read these boards. I do agree neither cares if you live or die, but it seems one at least giving the impression they care about existing users has not actually hurt the company.

I agree with this.

'Care' in the sense of, uh... having their interests aligned with the customers.

[S0urcerr0r]

well, the pre also uses pulseaudio, gstreamer, ... :d

woaw!!! :-D

[Maemomd]

Another interesting article from ARM now about Adobe Flash 10.1 optimized for ARM based tech:

http://www.liliputing.com/2010/05/arm-it-aint-the-chips-that-are-delaying-the-launch-of-smartbooks.html

ARM: It ain’t the chips that are delaying the launch of smartbooks

It’s been almost a year since chip-maker Qualcomm coined the term “smartbook” to describe a new kind of device that would be a cross between a smartphone and a netbook. Like smartphones, these so-called smartbooks would have low power ARM-based processors, long battery life, and always-connected access to the internet through 3G wireless networks. But they’d have reasonably large screens and keyboards, like netbooks.

Flash forward nearly 12 months, and you still can’t walk into a store and buy a smartbook. HP, Lenovo, and a few other companies have promised to bring devices matching Qualcomm’s description to market. But so far there’s just nothing on the shelves.

ARM spokesperson Ian Drew says the problem isn’t with the hardware – it’s largely software. First, he suggests that part of the appeal of a Smartbook is that it’s supposed to be able to access the full web experience — including Adobe Flash content. But Adobe still hasn’t officially released the long-promised version of Flash Player 10.1 optimized for Google Android and ARM-powered devices.

Second, Apple sparked interest in the tablet field with the successful launch of the iPad. That’s not necessarily a bad thing for ARM, which licenses its designs to the chip-makers building processors that power most of the me-too tablets expected to come out in the next few months.

Finally, Drew says that ARM-based smartbooks suffer a bit because they can’t run Windows, which is only designed to run on x86 processors. While some of the earliest netbooks, including the Asus Eee PC 701 and OLPC XO Laptop ran Linux, today more than 90 percent of the netbooks on the market ship with Windows.

While I certainly think a Google Android or Linux smartbook could prove successful, smartbook makers and wireless carriers will have an uphill battle trying to convince users that a device that looks almost exactly like a notebook operates more like a smartphone and can’t run Microsoft Office or other desktop software. That’s a problem Apple managed to avoid by introducing a tablet that looks a lot more like an iPod touch than a MacBook Pro.

While I suspect we’ll see smartbooks from HP and Lenovo hit the streets soon, it’s anybody’s guess whether they’ll fully support Adobe Flash at launch. And whether they’ll actually strike a chord with consumers is an even bigger question. I suspect most other PC and phone makers will wait to see the answer before fully commiting to the smartbook space.

END


Now, this is about smartbooks...I finally was able to mess around with a Froyo Nexus one from a friend of a colleague...Flash 10.1 was actually very dissapointing. Mouth sync became off around 1 minute into video, lag even though video was fully downloaded...Is it possible Adobe is actually holding off on ARM based tech altogether until they have a fully optimized product?

Anyways, just some food for thought.

[adi_adit]

I am not very certain if the link below is of much relevance or if it has already been posted. Felt that it might be of some relevance, so sharing it with you all !

http://www.dailytech.com/N900+Sales+Trickle+as+Nokia+Opera+Align+with+Adobe +on+Flash+Support/article18546.htm

The above dosen't say anything about N900 but raises a single ray of hope.

[cmsjkung]

When we will have flash player 10.1 upgrade for N900 ?

Thanks.....

[excelar8]

we won't.. well at least it's not announced as of yet

[Flandry]

Supermod tip
merge to http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=54087

[cmsjkung]

So you mean we will have flash player 10.1 upgrade in future..

Thanks...

[neotalk]

not very helpful but this is an email i received today:

Hi Neo,

Thank you for e-mailing the Nokia Care Contact Center.

Based on your concern, the N900 currently supports Flash Player ver. 9. But please be advised that updates will take place and hopefully the update for the player will be included as well. I would also like to inform you that this request has already been addressed and forwarded to our development team for consideration. In the meantime, we apologize for the inconvernience and we kindly ask for your patience with regrads to this matter.

I hope the information provided proves useful.

If you have any additional question, please don't hesitate to contact us again. To ensure proper handling of your case, kindly continue using the current subject line.

Thank you very much for your email. Have a great day.


Best Regards,

Kristel Avis
Email Specialist
Nokia Inc.

[anaskr]

not very helpful but this is an email i received today:

Hi Neo,

Thank you for e-mailing the Nokia Care Contact Center.

Based on your concern, the N900 currently supports Flash Player ver. 9. But please be advised that updates will take place and hopefully the update for the player will be included as well. I would also like to inform you that this request has already been addressed and forwarded to our development team for consideration. In the meantime, we apologize for the inconvernience and we kindly ask for your patience with regrads to this matter.

I hope the information provided proves useful.

If you have any additional question, please don't hesitate to contact us again. To ensure proper handling of your case, kindly continue using the current subject line.

Thank you very much for your email. Have a great day.


Best Regards,

Kristel Avis
Email Specialist
Nokia Inc.


i told my dad that i wont sit on the computer for too many hours!! well guess what i lied :D

[neotalk]

get that.....development team are considering it? hahahahaha....they have had 10.1 since august 2009 ....dont they make u giggle these nokia guys.....full of B.S.

[Bratag]

For God's sake. There are multiple threads on this already. Close this please mods or at least add it to the other one.

[neotalk]

i neva started it.....lol...am just adding to it.

[buurmas]

I am not very certain if the link below is of much relevance or if it has already been posted. Felt that it might be of some relevance, so sharing it with you all !
They're supporting Flash in general, yes, but that doesn't mean they're going to bring Flash 10.1 to the N900 specifically. Similarly, they might say the N900 supports Flash and mean Flash 9. They may be focusing on getting Flash 10.1 working on the next device. That's how Nokia (and other smartphone makers, apparently) rolls.

[nax3000]

Anybody else lol'd at "Email Specialist"? That must be a great job.

Edit - adobe demo'd 10.1 running on the N900 a while ago. So we KNOW they have at least an alpha build of it in their labs.
________
Avandia settlement (http://classactionsettlements.org/)

[danramos]

I miss the days when automated mailbots and machines had cool names like HAL9000 or WOPR, not Kristel Avis.

[festivalnut]

Anybody else lol'd at "Email Specialist"? That must be a great job.

i was just about to say that! i think she made up her own job title, i stack shelves in tesco, so i call myself a merchandise configuration specialiat! :)

[wmarone]

I miss the days when automated mailbots and machines had cool names like HAL9000 or WOPR, not Kristel Avis.

Yes but at least now they don't (attempt to) kill you.

[Glasswalker]

i was just about to say that! i think she made up her own job title, i stack shelves in tesco, so i call myself a merchandise configuration specialiat! :)

I don't think she made this up, if you serch around this seems to be common with nokias service. There have been some posted mails from Nokia's support and IIRC they had all been signed with this title.

Regards,
Glasswalker

[festivalnut]

Yes but at least now they don't (attempt to) kill you.

yet ...

[nax3000]

I miss the days when automated mailbots and machines had cool names like HAL9000 or WOPR, not Kristel Avis.

I'm afraid I cannot allow Flash 10.1.

Best Regards,
HAL9000
Email Specialist and AI
________
Yamaha tt500 (http://www.cyclechaos.com/wiki/Yamaha_TT500)

[ZogG]

thank you for contacting us, we would consider to laught or not to laught at you

best regards,
ZogG
troll specialist and forum flooder

[superg05]

don't worry it will come whenever they feel like should be to long pr 1.2 came out quick :|



written from my friends Htc Evo 4g (its awesome btw)

[nosa101]

don't worry it will come whenever they feel like should be to long pr 1.2 came out quick :|



written from my friends Htc Evo 4g (its awesome btw)

Is this out already?

[fnordianslip]

I'm afraid I cannot allow Flash 10.1.

Best Regards,
HAL9000
Email Specialist and AI

The computer says ... no.

[ZogG]

Is this out already?

this thread is about flash, so does it have flash 10 :D

[nosa101]

this thread is about flash, so does it have flash 10 :D

If the EVo 4G is out now, then NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!

Only Google's baby has Froyo ATM

[danramos]

If the EVo 4G is out now, then NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!

Only Google's baby has Froyo ATM

Actually, my Motorola Droid (and a few other DROID phones) are supposed to get 2.2 (Froyo) this month (June). Likely this means we'll get it in September--but then I only just got the 2.1 upgrade recently in April, so... props to Google for updating more often and with MEANIINGFUL upgrades, too.

[superg05]

people who attended google i/o got a free evo should not be as long of a wait i heard from my friend updating from 2.1 to 2.2 is suppose alot easier than 1.5 to 1.6 starting from 2.0 Google made the process easier

[nosa101]

Actually, my Motorola Droid (and a few other DROID phones) are supposed to get 2.2 (Froyo) this month (June). Likely this means we'll get it in September--but then I only just got the 2.1 upgrade recently in April, so... props to Google for updating more often and with MEANIINGFUL upgrades, too.

But you don't have it.
And that's kinda the point.

[Omega180984]

flash 10.1 comes defently in the second half of 2010 for the n900 ;)

http://bestboyz.de/adobe-flash-10-1-kommt-fur-nokia-n900-im-2-quartal-2010/

juhu

[nosa101]

flash 10.1 comes defently in the second half of 2010 for the n900 ;)

http://bestboyz.de/adobe-flash-10-1-kommt-fur-nokia-n900-im-2-quartal-2010/

juhu

Old video?

[Omega180984]

yes this video ist old, biut :

Eine Anfrage bei Adobe ergab nun, dass Flash 10.1 definitiv auf das N900 kommen wird, geplant sei dieser Schritt für die zweite Jahreshälfte 2010. Daher müssen wir uns also noch ein Stück gedulden, kommen aber immerhin überhaupt in den Genuss der aktuellsten Flash Version.

this means, that they ask adobe about the flash player 10.1 and the release date, and they answer, that flash player coms defetly in the second half 2010 for n900

[nosa101]

yes this video ist old, biut :



this means, that they ask adobe about the flash player 10.1 and the release date, and they answer, that flash player coms defetly in the second half 2010 for n900

If true, that's fantastic news

[geneven]

i was just about to say that! i think she made up her own job title, i stack shelves in tesco, so i call myself a merchandise configuration specialiat! :)

Hey, I used to manage a group called the E-Team. We had people who specialized in Compuserve, BBS, Chat, Usenet correspondence. It was very interesting and challenging. We supported all Quarterdeck products, which was a pretty good range of products -- browser, memory manager, multitasker, etc. That was before I went to work for Garry Kasparov.

[gerbick]

You just dated yourself with the BBS comment.

[danramos]

You just dated yourself with the BBS comment.

Dated himself with ALL of those elements.

Here's me dating myself, too: I also remember browsing gopher space and running veronica and archie searches. [whispered:] I remember NCSA Mosaic!

Not to mention that I also remember BBS's (ran one for 9 years) and I also remember scribbling COBOL code onto coding sheets to translate to ASCII binary and punching them into coding sheets.

[amiraseri]

i upgraded mine, how do i know wheather it's Flash 10.1?

[sophocha]

tomorrow when you get the 1.2 firmware, you will have flash 10.1

Is this suppose to be funny or don`t you have a clue about it?

[anaskr]

that day if nokia would have released the flash 10.1 they would have been happy!!

ps. they was meant for THE n900 disappointed users!!

[GotGlint]

hate to start a new thread but im outta the loop and a search revealed little

Is flash 10 still actually happening or is it time to forget about it.

Flash video is frankly attrocious on this phone and in some cases like on chanel 4 site, is simply not watchable at all.


Have adobe said anything about it? I was under the impression they had a full working version months ago.......

[xtian]

Maybe check this thread

http://forums.internettablettalk.com/showthread.php?t=53484

[!!Nokia N900!!]

Nokia is full of surprises.. :)
Let wait & see

[dominik]

I have posted some new information on this topic today in another thread (http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=702027#post702027). According to this piece of information flash 10.1 will not happen on the N900, because Adobes hardware requirements are not met.

[maxximuscool]

I have posted some new information on this topic today in another thread (http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=702027#post702027). According to this piece of information flash 10.1 will not happen on the N900, because Adobes hardware requirements are not met.

Bullshiiit!!! The hardware is truely in the range of possibility also the OS has the potential to support it smoothly too. There already is a demo version of it at the Flash10.1 announcement. Flash 10.1 is already ran on one of the demo N900 and yes it ran smooth like a good desktop.

Hardware requirements!!! lol don't make me laugh dude!

[anaskr]

^^ chill !! :D

[sjgadsby]

The following threads have been merged into this thread:
"Flash 10.1 on n900?" with fifteen posts
"Flash Player 10.1 Release ?" with thirty-two posts
"Who said that Flash 10.1 is not coming?" with one hundred ninety-two posts
"Flash 10.1 up to date info please" with four posts

[fieryriver]

I dont actually trust nokia but they claim the n900 is an internet tablet so it is kind of a must that we n900 users get an update to flash 10.1. Phones not meant as internet tablets get 10.1 and n900 doersn't? Sounds lame to me. And besides 10.1 was demoed on n900 so it should work fine.
Maybe nokia and abobe will surprise us. At least im hopeful (naive).

[dominik]

Bullshiiit!!! ... Hardware requirements!!! lol don't make me laugh dude!

If the hardware limit is cleverly chosen is debatable, but that there are hardware limits is not surprising.

The more interesting question for the moment is, how reliable the info in the blog entry is?

[attila77]

I didn't think my article would spark this much interest, but the requirements (as linked from the blog page) are from Adobe's official site, so it's as reliable as Adobe is (which is, if you read the article, equivalent to 'not at all' as the hardware requirements have already been bumped once, from ARM11 to Cortex A8/ARMv7).

[Nokia 5700]

Hey, Adobe is being unfair, N900 has a DSP, why dont they give respect for that? :/
If they dont give us Flash, i'd say Adobe is EVIL...

[taril]

flash 10.1 comes defently in the second half of 2010 for the n900 ;)

http://bestboyz.de/adobe-flash-10-1-kommt-fur-nokia-n900-im-2-quartal-2010/

juhu

Not for N900 (Meego neither)
Is there something in your right eye?

[rickysio]

Hey, Adobe is being unfair, N900 has a DSP, why dont they give respect for that? :/
If they dont give us Flash, i'd say Adobe is EVIL...

DSP is not the same as GPU.

[cfh11]

Alright Flash 10.1 has just been released for Linux desktops... any guesses when the other shoe (ARM build) will drop?

[Spotfist]

God I hate Nokia soooooo, soooo much! ITV are streaming the world cup, YAY! Im so glad I got myself a smart phone that can play flash, oh wait ITV have upgraded to flash 10 so I can't watch it! Honestly who runs Nokia and who thinks that having the flash update AFTER the world cup was a good idea?!?!?!?!?!?! Worst business ever!!!!! I can't express with words the anger I feel for Nokia right now! My mate at the desk next to me has an Iphone WTF am I doing with this piece of KAK?

:(

[bill.d]

spotfist go sign up to tvcatchup if your in the uk. im watching the openning ceromony on itv on there low bandwidth setting with no problem its a bit jerky for the first couple of mins and then it smooths out and runs well. its free too.

[AlMehdi]

DSP is not the same as GPU.

The n900 have a better GPU than the Nexus and it will come to the Android soon. I believe it is only a matter of time before it get's to n900 too.

[AlMehdi]

God I hate Nokia soooooo, soooo much! ITV are streaming the world cup, YAY! Im so glad I got myself a smart phone that can play flash, oh wait ITV have upgraded to flash 10 so I can't watch it! Honestly who runs Nokia and who thinks that having the flash update AFTER the world cup was a good idea?!?!?!?!?!?! Worst business ever!!!!! I can't express with words the anger I feel for Nokia right now! My mate at the desk next to me has an Iphone WTF am I doing with this piece of KAK?

:(

lol! you do know that the iphone can't play flash either? at all.. not even flash 9.4.

[Bratag]

God I hate Nokia soooooo, soooo much! ITV are streaming the world cup, YAY! Im so glad I got myself a smart phone that can play flash, oh wait ITV have upgraded to flash 10 so I can't watch it! Honestly who runs Nokia and who thinks that having the flash update AFTER the world cup was a good idea?!?!?!?!?!?! Worst business ever!!!!! I can't express with words the anger I feel for Nokia right now! My mate at the desk next to me has an Iphone WTF am I doing with this piece of KAK?

:(

I see. So its Nokias fault that

a) The site upgraded to flash 10.1 (Never mind the fact that the N900 is the only phone that really runs TRUE flash of any kind)

b) Adobe are obviously not particularly concerned with the Linux market anyway

c) You didn't bother to read any of the threads discussing watching the World Cup online and used one of the sites found within. I am personally enjoying watching the ESPN coverage right now on my N900.

d) You are a whiny goit

God forbid you have to expend some actual energy finding a solution rather than just whining about it.

[slaapliedje]

Adobe hasn't even released the 64bit Linux version, those c***bags. WTF?

So they hurry up and push it out to plug some security flaws found in Flash 10, and now they haven't even released the 64bit version.

Some websites out there are ******ed, why would they upgrade to Flash 10.1 already, it only was finally released today....

slaapliedje

[ysss]

OMG can we just throttle down the sh*t slinging amongst ourselves?
Throw them to the deities (adobe, apple, nokia, etc)!!!111

[rickysio]

Me reading the Adobe page on hardware requirements.

Downloads of Flash Player 10.1 will be available for devices that meet Adobe's minimum hardware and software requirements.

Mental thought : YIPPIE! If Nokia won't do it, I can pester Adobe to do it!

Then I gazed upwards

WVGA
Dedicated Cortex-A8 800 MHz processor
Hardware vector FPU required

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU. .........

[Spotfist]

I see. So its Nokias fault that

a) The site upgraded to flash 10.1 (Never mind the fact that the N900 is the only phone that really runs TRUE flash of any kind)

b) Adobe are obviously not particularly concerned with the Linux market anyway

c) You didn't bother to read any of the threads discussing watching the World Cup online and used one of the sites found within. I am personally enjoying watching the ESPN coverage right now on my N900.

d) You are a whiny goit

God forbid you have to expend some actual energy finding a solution rather than just whining about it.

Bratag could you perhaps give the link to the espn site, I have tried three so far an no luck, every one I get a "upgrade to latest flash" thats the .com and co.uk and .do well the .do didn't even work..

Also Iphone has an itv app :(

[maxximuscool]

800mhz is not much difference to 600mhz on n900 right now. There is always some OC to be done, I hope Nokia bringing flash10.1 to N900 and officially OC the device to 125Mhz, 250mhz, 550mhz, 800mhz ideal setting :)

OC is possible!

[Bratag]

Bratag could you perhaps give the link to the espn site, I have tried three so far an no luck, every one I get a "upgrade to latest flash" thats the .com and co.uk and .do well the .do didn't even work..

Also Iplayer has an itv app :(

firstrow.net is the one I use - Both HQ and LQ links.

[rickysio]

800mhz is not much difference to 600mhz on n900 right now. There is always some OC to be done, I hope Nokia bringing flash10.1 to N900 and officially OC the device to 125Mhz, 250mhz, 550mhz, 800mhz ideal setting :)

OC is possible!

To Nokia, 600MHz is OC.

500MHz is good. 600 is bad. Or that's what I understand from the warnings against overclocking.

[arkanoid]

Well, at least i got flash security update on the desktop linux today. For n900 flashblock is the only protection :-(

[devu]

Dedicated != minimum... right?

[nax3000]

Has anyone actually tried contacting adobe directly? I know someone contacted Nokia and they said something like "hopefully yes".
________
Vapormatic vaporizer (http://www.vaporshop.com/vapormatic-vaporizer.html)

[xperto]

So are we getting it ? -(

[GotGlint]

Does anyone know what date the last time Adobe or Nokia actually talked about Flash 10.

What I don't understand is, Adobe proclaiming the greatness of flash, and fighting apple while being content with a gimped version of it on this phone.

Youtube looks horrible and no other flash players ever work at all.

At least the iPhone has decent quality youtube vids.

[devu]

Has anyone actually tried contacting adobe directly? I know someone contacted Nokia and they said something like "hopefully yes".

Yes!

And all you can get from Adobe is references to ask Nokia. They are not allowed to speak for partners decisions. But doing all they can to provide support for partners..

By the way
http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/
And see what number you get ;) Yes it's official now.

HOWEVER

This version is nothing else like Flash 10.1 RC7
They Just approved it as stable. They mess up some release notes links and nothing seems to be working at the moment :/, looks like work in progress.

But as far as I remember (I was reading this pretty much 5 day ago as release notes RC7) They mentioned about Linux devices as a lack of GPU acceleration. Reason? Lack of proper drivers for some specific devices. So... once again seems to be job that have to be done by vendors, nobody else. Android guys did they job.

I have no reason to do not trust what Adobe saying. They said 7 months ago Adobe final 10.1 release will arrive in June. And arrived in mid June. So unusual for any company these days. Don't you agree?

[nax3000]

I've got a pretty good PC so I can't really tell performance boosts concerning flash heh..

MAN I wish they'd announce flash on the N900 already. It is coming to the droid which is basically the same hardware only with a different OS (that's linux based too anyway)
________
Chevrolet Yeoman (http://www.chevy-wiki.com/wiki/Chevrolet_Yeoman)

[attila77]

I have no reason to do not trust what Adobe saying. They said 7 months ago Adobe final 10.1 release will arrive in June. And arrived in mid June. So unusual for any company these days. Don't you agree?

Hey hey... Adobe was delaying stuff endlessly.

http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/pressroom/pressreleases/200904/040109AdobeTIOMAP.html
A pre-release of the optimized Adobe Flash Player 10 for devices is expected to be available to manufacturers this summer with an official production release expected in Q1 2010. OMAP solutions supporting the pre-release of Adobe Flash Player are expected to be available for manufacturers and developers in the second half of 2009. (never happened)

http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/pressroom/pressreleases/200910/100509AFPforMobileDevicesandPCs.html
A public developer beta of the browser-based runtime is expected to be available for Windows® Mobile, Palm® webOS and desktop operating systems including Windows, Macintosh and Linux later this year. Public betas for Google® Android™ and Symbian® OS are expected to be available in early 2010. (never happened except for the Nexus One and Linux)

http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/pressroom/pressreleases/200811/111708ARMAdobeFlash.html
Adobe Flash Player 10 for ARMv6 and ARMv7 architecture-based hardware is expected to be available royalty-free to partners participating in the Open Screen Project. Flash Player 10 for ARM processor-based devices will be made available to OEMs by Adobe. (ARMv6 never happened, ask your friends with HTC Heros)

http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/173084/flash_player_inches_closer_to_smartphones.html
Still, the mobile effort hasn't been a breeze for Adobe, which has recently fallen behind schedule. In June it said it would release the Flash Player 10 beta in October, to coincide with this week's Adobe Max conference. While the Windows Mobile and Palm webOS betas will be out soon, Android and Symbian will be several months late when they arrive next year. Murarka said Android is taking longer because Adobe needs some programming interfaces that will be available with the Eclair release of Android, due later this year. (never happened, again, see outcry on HTC Hero forums, FroYo became the minimum)

So no, in the mobile device segment they have been consistently promising and then falling behind schedule since early 2009 (no, there WAS no final release of 10.1 for any mobile platform yet, but they still have two weeks to deliver on that).

[Frappacino]

Has anyone actually tried contacting adobe directly? I know someone contacted Nokia and they said something like "hopefully yes".

If you have a link can you post it. The only indication we have had is quole's contact in Nokia which said "No, n900 is not getting flash" and quole is very certain on it.

And to all others who say no other phone has flash 10 properly yet, you utterly miss the point - Adobe has announced plans to release flash 10 for the other mobile OSes (except Apple obviously, but they have their gazzillion apps to access content) EXCEPT for mameo 5, and this is what is angering users here. As websites upgrade to new flash the n900 LOSES access to content, whereas the other phone Oses with flash 10 GAIN access to more content.

As for those blaming the user for "being lazy" - its ppl like you why Nokia can keep doing this to its users - because ppl like you keep forgiving and keep buying.

End of the day it is this, IF you are not happy with Nokia's actions on the n900, then SELL your phone and do not buy Nokia again and tell your friends the same, because dropping sales is the ONLY way that Nokia will realise it has to provide adequate support to its users. Do your *****ing, but once you have vented and Nokia ignores you, this is your only proper course of action.

This is how the market works - talk is cheap and achieves nothing with Nokia, but a sinking $$$ bottom line WILL.

[xuggs]

This is how the market works - talk is cheap and achieves nothing with Nokia, but a sinking $$$ bottom line WILL.

Then why not start a revolution? Why not have website with verified users who sell their Nokias and buy something else? Price of another mobile = Nokias loss. If we are able to do that then perhaps we can show Nokia what they are actually losing (not that they dont know it already) and which better place to start from then right here.

It's not the selling of your current nokia handset that will make a difference its the buying of another brand.

When those numbers reach higher is when Nokia sweats and if you are able to do that on a really large scale then yes I agree it would matter.

I really love my N900 but I hate what Nokia can do. It was announced in November 2009 so 7-8 months since then and thats all? I might be totally wrong and Nokia either has bigger plans for it or they dont. From the looks of it they dont really have any focus on it anymore.

/xuggs

[vkv.raju]

Btw, he is qole and not quole :)

Hoping that the latest flash (hardware acceleration) soon arrives on the N900...

[attila77]

And to all others who say no other phone has flash 10 properly yet, you utterly miss the point - Adobe has announced plans to release flash 10 for the other mobile OSes (except Apple obviously, but they have their gazzillion apps to access content) EXCEPT for mameo 5, and this is what is angering users here. As websites upgrade to new flash the n900 LOSES access to content, whereas the other phone Oses with flash 10 GAIN access to more content.

As for those blaming the user for "being lazy" - its ppl like you why Nokia can keep doing this to its users - because ppl like you keep forgiving and keep buying.
...
is the ONLY way that Nokia will realise it has to provide adequate support to its users.


WTF ? So which company is it ? Or did I miss Nokia buying Adobe and being able to call the shots what platforms get supported ? IF there is support for a platform, then yes, it’s the OEM’s fault for not bringing it to a particular device. But people, if Adobe can’t get it’s act together on mainstream *desktop* linux builds (on which the Maemo releases are based on), then what do you expect ?

[Flandry]

WTF ? So which company is it ? Or did I miss Nokia buying Adobe and being able to call the shots what platforms get supported ? IF there is support for a platform, then yes, it’s the OEM’s fault for not bringing it to a particular device. But people, if Adobe can’t get it’s act together on mainstream *desktop* linux builds (on which the Maemo releases are based on), then what do you then expect ?

You're posting in the wrong forum. This one is only for blaming Nokia for all of one's shortcomings.

[attila77]

You're posting in the wrong forum. This one is only for blaming Nokia for all of one's shortcomings.

Oops, right, I keep forgetting that one. Let me point out one final thing - take a look at which site you can download the Android Flash beta from (hint: it’s not Google’s, HTC’s or Motorola’s (http://labs.adobe.com/downloads/flashplayer10.html)).

[geneven]

Why is Nokia prohibited from making a forthright statement with regard to its intentions to Flash upgrades?

Isn't it just a bit pathetic that the most authoritative statement on that subject has come from Qole, who, last I heard, is not employed by any company, let alone Nokia?

I still haven't heard a reasonable statement from Nokia about why it wouldn't provide an upgrade to Flash when and if it is available. Expense? Too much trouble?

Why can't Nokia communicate clearly on this issue?

Who at Nokia is responsible for communication to us, btw?

[attila77]

Why is Nokia prohibited from making a forthright statement with regard to its intentions to Flash upgrades?

Now hat *is* something I’d like Nokia to improve on, especially considering that Adobe doesn’t mention even MeeGo as such (interesting because of the ARM branch of MeeGo and MeeGo-Harmattan).

Isn't it just a bit pathetic that the most authoritative statement on that subject has come from Qole, who, last I heard, is not employed by any company, let alone Nokia?

Technically, that came from the head of Maemo operations, qole was just relaying the info.

Who at Nokia is responsible for communication to us, btw?

Generally, that would be qgil (through the Council if nothing else). And yes, there were recent council mails that contained that question, but had no actual response so far.

[un-named_user]

WTF ? So which company is it ? Or did I miss Nokia buying Adobe and being able to call the shots what platforms get supported ? IF there is support for a platform, then yes, it’s the OEM’s fault for not bringing it to a particular device. But people, if Adobe can’t get it’s act together on mainstream *desktop* linux builds (on which the Maemo releases are based on), then what do you expect ?


WTF indeed Atilla77. You are a respected senior member of the forum and a council member at that and so.. WTH were you smoking when you said that?

The N900 with the Maemo5 platform simply never sold enough to attract Adobe to do the flash work themselves. Bet you a 100 bucks that if M5 platform sold in huge numbers they would be all over it, just like they are dying for Apple to take it.

Yes, Adobe is a prick for leaving Linux out for most of the time. But how can you even confuse normal Linux distributions business case out there with no manufactures exclusively using them to push their hardware vs something like Nokia's Linux based distributions M5/M6/etc.

As for Nokia, they never intended to push Maemo5 beyond what it is. Launched it as a niche product and killed it prematurely by shrugging and hiding every shortcoming by re asserting its a niche product.

Its all about business. Has nothing to do with M5s Debian roots. M6/Harmattan/Meego-Instance if I'm not mistaken is also Debian based. But I'm sure its going to get flash. Would make no business sense to launch a spanking new hardware with an important(disclaimer: neccessary evil to me) functionality like Flash missing.

So yeah the maybe the responsibilty should be Adobe's to support all the platforms with equal love. But the blame is on Nokia for not doing what was necessary for M5.

PS: Saw your second post too. Still doesn't explain the silence on Nokia's part. Neither does tying Adobe's hands to release any possible information.
talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=683973&postcount=475

PS2: Ok. You do agree on Nokia's stoic but frankly ridiculous silence :)
Having Qgil is a positive indeed, but how much he is restricted by Nokia is pathetic IMO.

Feels like such a damn wasted oppurtunity. Perfect ingredients, perfect recipe, prob perfect outlook too, but just fsked up completely on execution and follow through by Nokia. Aarghh.

[attila77]

Yes, Adobe is a prick for leaving Linux out for most of the time. But how can you even confuse normal Linux distributions business case out there with no manufactures exclusively using them to push their hardware vs something like Nokia's Linux based distributions M5/M6/etc.

It's not confusion - Flash on Maemo is a direct descendant of the Linux desktop Flash, it is not treated as a separate platform by Adobe (or Nokia). Until there is a solid Linux base for 10.1, Maemo/MeeGo will be just a stepchild, no matter how hard Nokia pushes. Think about it, Adobe sunk TONS of effort to get around Apple's limitations, only to have the door slammed in their faces. Adobe is a prick because they said well then, s**w everything, we want to hurt Apple, nobody says no the hottest chick in town ! There are a LOT more Linux machines (or Symbian) out there and yet they focus almost exclusively on Android, relegating everything second to that, exactly because Symbian and Linux even with their tens-or-hundreds-of-millions of users will not impact Apple as much as Android. This really is about vanity and politics between Apple and Adobe, users be damned, we're just collaterals in that story, and not chiefly even that of Nokia or MeeGo, but Adobe. Think about it. Can Nokia singlehandedly take over the whole Flash for Linux branch, hardware acceleration and all ? Yeah, they could probably cobble together a barebones port based on the OpenScreen porting kit on their own, but that would essentially be forking Flash. That's why I'm not at all sure if the current situation is a result of 'Adobe good, Nokia bad', which is the general notion here.

[gerbick]

It's not confusion - Flash on Maemo is a direct descendant of the Linux desktop Flash, it is not treated as a separate platform by Adobe (or Nokia). Until there is a solid Linux base for 10.1, Maemo/MeeGo will be just a stepchild, no matter how hard Nokia pushes.

Not sure I follow your logic.

How solid of base is needed beyond Flash Player 10.1 being out and installable right now?

[mayfairman]

Im not sure why people think it is coming at all, the n900 is below adobes min spec for WVGA devices as its minimum spec for ARM chipsets is 800Mhz, and we've only a lowly 600Mhz out of the box.

[Spotfist]

I thought it was mentioned that the 800Mhz spec wasn't the be all and end all spec and that it was available on an android phone similar to that of the n900...

[attila77]

Not sure I follow your logic.
How solid of base is needed beyond Flash Player 10.1 being out and installable right now?

I certainly don't consider a 32bit X86 blob a solid base. Where's the link to an ARM build ? Where is pulseaudio support ? Where is proper non-GTK browser support ? Where's hardware acceleration for video decoding ? Why is the minimum CPU requirement 2x higher (and memory requirement 4x higher) on Linux than on Windows ? That sort of stuff.

EDIT: Not the mention the mother of all Adobe Linux goof-ups of HAVING a 64bit version (crappy as it was, at least it existed) and then remove it (http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/flashplayer10/64bit.html). Probably Nokia's fault, too, as we know Adobe lives and breathes Linux, right ?

[gabby131]

lol! you do know that the iphone can't play flash either? at all.. not even flash 9.4.

that is how we deal some pipz, we got a better one but still asking for much much better.

[gerbick]

I certainly don't consider a 32bit X86 blob a solid base. Where's the link to an ARM build ? Where is pulseaudio support ? Where is proper non-GTK browser support ? Where's hardware acceleration for video decoding ? Why is the minimum CPU requirement 2x higher (and memory requirement 4x higher) on Linux than on Windows ? That sort of stuff.

The x86 blob is a starting base, with the ARM work being done in the past with the assist of Nvidia (initially) and Adobe working with ARM directly. Press releases start around 2008 or so.

I'm not Adobe and cannot answer your questions about the rest but I would have to say that it's more than likely experience with that OS and the lack of frameworks that are universal enough to be tapped as a potential issue. And that's a rather uneducated guess mind you... so feel free to rip apart and educate me on that part.

[attila77]

No need to rip. What I'm saying it's no trivial task to bring the full Flash 10.1 feature set and improvements to Linux in a simple manner (there was a reason why Maemo was the only mobile platform with full flash until the HTC Hero).

The crux of the matter is that we are not Adobe's customers but Nokia's, and IMHO that's why people feel Nokia should do "something", even if it is something as unrealistic as taking over the ARM Linux port. Adobe does NOT consider us, end users as customers, that's why their multiplatform support was always such a hit-and-miss issue (I found it odd that lately Qt, a *native* application framework has far better coverage and quality than something linked to web technologies and with such a powerhouse as Adobe behind their back). Which actually is part of the problem. Until they can sell the platform as something with 99% penetration, it doesn't matter how slow, outdated or hacky a particular device's support is as long as it's there. This is now coming around, as with the iOS turn of events, they no longer have ubiquity and they actually have to pedal to keep their positions, or risk other platforms following suit, which *would* be a serious blow to the actual source of income for Flash. Adobe WAS lazy when it comes to platform breadth, lulled by it's dominance and lack of true competition, that much at least is true from what Jobs said.

[BLIZZARD]

Im not sure why people think it is coming at all, the n900 is below adobes min spec for WVGA devices as its minimum spec for ARM chipsets is 800Mhz, and we've only a lowly 600Mhz out of the box.

Because we saw that video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pee3nT4bPw4

[qole]

I have a question: Why doesn't Adobe release a version of Flash for the iPod Touch / iPhone / iPad? Has Apple forbid it? Is Adobe too proud to make a free player for the platform that has snubbed them?

Seems that Adobe is being most foolish in the mobile Apple world. Compared to that foolishness, the Nokia stuff seems tiny...

[ysss]

I have a question: Why doesn't Adobe release a version of Flash for the iPod Touch / iPhone / iPad? Has Apple forbid it? Is Adobe too proud to make a free player for the platform that has snubbed them?

Seems that Adobe is being most foolish in the mobile Apple world. Compared to that foolishness, the Nokia stuff seems tiny...

Apple has completely c*ckblocked Adobe from their mobile software ecosystem. The story goes that Jobs begged Adobe for support on iPhone 1.0 and he was snubbed...

Now Jobs made sure that no Adobe codes can squeak through his ecosystem by putting legal blocks in the Apple's Developers Agreement: all interpreter/interpreted codes has to get Apple's approval before they're let through the golden sh*t gate.

[gabby131]

I have a question: Why doesn't Adobe release a version of Flash for the iPod Touch / iPhone / iPad? Has Apple forbid it? Is Adobe too proud to make a free player for the platform that has snubbed them?

Seems that Adobe is being most foolish in the mobile Apple world. Compared to that foolishness, the Nokia stuff seems tiny...

you mean like Flash Lite for symbian? yeah......good one

[qole]

So even if Adobe published a Flash player for iPhone, and had a download page on their website, nobody could install it because Adobe wouldn't be allowed to put it into the App Store? Wow. I think at this point, Adobe should get down on their knees and offer to lick Jobs' shoes. Otherwise Flash will be going the way of the floppy drive.

[ysss]

@qole: well yeah, except that ALL iphone\touch\ipad software sales and distribution goes through the iTunes' Store. So they cannot just offer a binary on their webpage... this will only work for jailbroken iDevice and developer's device. There is a seldom used way to manually distribute your binary and manually signing the distributed blob by the user's iDevice's serial number, but i think that's mainly designed for beta testing and enterprise distribution with (relatively) limited users...

Adobe actually already have a flash repackager (for iphone/touch) in their latest Creative Suite but its use is pretty much nullified by Jobs change of the Apple's Developers Agreement. If I'm not mistaken they've a preliminary version of html5 repackager now instead.

I'm not sure about flash going the way of the floppy drive ;) but I'm pretty sure a good portion of its uses are displaced by applets (apple's, android's, etc) because of the potential of monetization and higher control.

[devu]

I have a question: Why doesn't Adobe release a version of Flash for the iPod Touch / iPhone / iPad? Has Apple forbid it? Is Adobe too proud to make a free player for the platform that has snubbed them?

Seems that Adobe is being most foolish in the mobile Apple world. Compared to that foolishness, the Nokia stuff seems tiny...

With all respect to you.. are you the guy who tell us the rumor that Flash 10.1 will not coming on N900? No offense but I fill much better now ;)

I would really like to post the link to release notes from Adobe but still doesn't work! And I was reading about all detailed technical restrictions and requirements.

The most important message was all of delays was because of vendors (of specific devices) Didn't provide driver support! Who does, get it working. Flash 10.1 is working itself. Don't be surprised if you can't see any significant performance boost on PC because it wasn't about PC at all. There is only some range graphic cards with up-to-date drivers. Adobe couldn't wait for guys they are busy with other things and will not provide any information! Same with Apple! But those guys did this intentionally and officially. Others are partners that didn't provided enough information end of story.

Can you write a game for my device if i will not give you a driver for my graphic card even if OS is yours? C'mon people!

[devu]

So even if Adobe published a Flash player for iPhone, and had a download page on their website, nobody could install it because Adobe wouldn't be allowed to put it into the App Store? Wow. I think at this point, Adobe should get down on their knees and offer to lick Jobs' shoes. Otherwise Flash will be going the way of the floppy drive.

You had to be busy last couple of weeks if you don't know the Steve Gate case. Even if Adobe could by brute force develop flash plug-in for iPhone. Apple didn't provide any technical information/drivers to do so. I believe would take next decade to guess how it works without spec ;). But this story went beyond that. Flash guys 2-3 years ago begun Alchemy project. Now some achievements of this has been included in Adobe CS5. What this stuff can do? Writing game,app whatever, and compiling it to native C. Yes.. cross compiler. And in CS5 Adobe officially added direct compilation to the C targeting iPhone. And the war begun!

Amazingly other platforms like for example Unity3D are not banned.
Even some open source language based on Action Script called HaXe using similar approach to cross-compile to c++ and is possible to target iPhone as well. Also is not banned. Hope you have more clear picture of this situation. I don't even mention about reasons Jobs gave us in official letter because I don't want to be p**** of once again... :p

[geneven]

Technically, that came from the head of Maemo operations, qole was just relaying the info.

I don't remember Qole identifying the source beyond "a senior Nokia employee" or something to that effect.

What other company chooses to release information in this way?

This sounds like a deep background statement like an administration official would make about using missles in Pakistan.

[gerbick]

I've stated it over and over that Adobe needs to place the Flash Player out there for Cydia.

[ysss]

just to clarify: Cydia is the appmanager+appstore front end for unauthorized apps, accessible only by jailbroken iDevices :)

I think that will truly enrage steve jobs... i've no idea what other bridges he'd burn toward Adobe if they do that...

[attila77]

The most important message was all of delays was because of vendors (of specific devices) Didn't provide driver support! Who does, get it working.

That’s missing the point, for two reasons. One, Flash10.1 can always fall back to software rendering (=do what it is doing now). Two, Adobe itself was boasting about direct cooperation with Texas Instruments for bringing Flash 10 to OMAP based devices (http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/pressroom/pressreleases/200904/040109AdobeTIOMAP.html) (it’s Texas instruments who makes the drivers for these devices, not Nokia, Motorola or Palm).

Can you write a game for my device if i will not give you a driver for my graphic card even if OS is yours? C'mon people!

The trouble is you DID make the game for the SAME graphics card for other platforms. Not to mention the detail that hardware acceleration or particular devices ARE NOT A REQUIREMENT even on your own page. Last, but not least, Maemo uses the same browser APIs as any desktop Linux does, so there is nothing to special to disclose (is it Canonical’s fault Adobe pulled HW accelerated Flash 10.1 from 64bit Ubuntus ?)

[devu]

That’s missing the point, for two reasons. One, Flash10.1 can always fall back to software rendering (=do what it is doing now). Two, Adobe itself was boasting about direct cooperation with Texas Instruments for bringing Flash 10 to OMAP based devices (http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/pressroom/pressreleases/200904/040109AdobeTIOMAP.html) (it’s Texas instruments who makes the drivers for these devices, not Nokia, Motorola or Palm).


Yes, I agree with you. My example was extreme if you can hold device and OS in our hand. but Adobe is not holding any. They could prepare flash in terms of device talking to Texas Instruments. But is not like driver is something like bridge between device and OS? Rather than Device -> 3th party tech under some OS?


The trouble is you DID make the game for the SAME graphics card for other platforms. Not to mention the detail that hardware acceleration or particular devices ARE NOT A REQUIREMENT even on your own page. Last, but not least, Maemo uses the same browser APIs as any desktop Linux does, so there is nothing to special to disclose (is it Canonical’s fault Adobe pulled HW accelerated Flash 10.1 from 64bit Ubuntus ?)

For me one thing is clear. If One particular platform can handle that. Flash must be prepare for that as well. If Other doesn't means there is some missing link. (drivers?)

Gosh I would like to find this stuff I've read 5 days ago. But now I suspect they took it off for reason ;)

Edit:
But don't get me wrong, I agree that if you look at what the whole campaign promised it was wide coverage of mobile devices. In this case looks like flash 10.1 release is pretty formal and didn't ad big value to the market. Maybe only Android Team is a winner in this case but this is still under consideration.

Edit 2

go there

http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/flashplayer10/?tabID=details#release_notes

and try to click on

Where can I find a list of known issues?/release notes

or

System Requirements/See the full release notes

Maybe I've got something wrong but it just doesn't work for me now :/

[attila77]

For me one thing is clear. If One particular platform can handle that. Flash must be prepare for that as well. If Other doesn't means there is some missing link. (drivers?)


I’m afraid it’s simpler than that. My educated guess is that the missing link is (drumroll)... time.

The Open Screen project was a nice, grand but slow project, a little late, no biggie. But with the turn of events in the last 6 months suddenly everything shifted to overdrive. With the iOS rebellion, Adobe needs Flash on a major mobile platform competing with Apple *NOW*, hence the 100% Android focus. Nokia needs 100% focus to make MeeGo and a Qt based ecosystem ready by N9 or they are really in trouble (bigger trouble than if none of us and our family and their friends never buy a Nokia again). That’s my guess why there is no frantic activity around Flash 10.1 on Maemo. Considering that Nokia does not win anything by NOT having Flash on the N900 (the N8 does not have it and the N9 is half a year away), that’s the one remotely reasonable explanation I can think of (with the presumption that Nokia and Adobe DO have a strategy :) ).

[devu]

I’m afraid it’s simpler than that. My educated guess is that the missing link is (drumroll)... time.


And I’m afraid you right... economy politics.... that's why I can't agree to that :)

[ysss]

And I’m afraid you right... economy politics.... that's why I can't agree to that :)

Heh.. that's like rejecting to understand gravity..

Every time you see something falls, you'll be confused and engulfed in bewilderment..

[qole]

Isn't it just a bit pathetic that the most authoritative statement on that subject has come from Qole, who, last I heard, is not employed by any company, let alone Nokia?

Sorry, geneven, did I do something to you that I'm not aware of? PM me and we'll resolve it. Because that was pretty harsh wording. Especially since you're wrong; I am currently employed (just not for much longer).

And attila77 is right about my source's job title. I attended a presentation and asked him privately afterwards, and I simply relayed to you what he told me. And as I've said, I'd love to be wrong.

[attila77]

here is a good read about their strategy

http://www.nokia.com/NOKIA_COM_1/Technology/pdf/Nokia_software_strategy_white_paper.pdf

What I found interesting in that document is that it talks a whole lot about HTML5 and a lot less about Flash than I’d expect (leaving AIR completely out of the picture), to the point that the only development it sees is full flash on Symbian at some point, but is tight lipped about OpenScreen/Flash10 on Maemo OR MeeGo. In retrospect, Nokia was not among the myriad of companies that issued a letter of support for Flash recently, the OpenScreen Fund did not progress beyond it’s 2008 page and Flash Lite. But it gets more interesting... There is not a single Nokia related news or device video which is made after October 2009, and from the mobile-world-all-star-CEO-lineup video, conspiculosly, there are two representatives missing - Apple and Nokia (+maybe TI). Considering that Symbian is not strictly a Nokia thing, I’m starting to think it’s not impossible Nokia is not that fond of Adobe any more.

[aphexsean]

What are the general hardware and software requires for Flash Player 10.1 on mobile devices?
Hardware/software requirements Flash Player 10.1

VGA


* Dedicated Cortex-A8 550 MHz processor with Neon for A8 only
* Hardware vector floating point unit (FPU)

WVGA

* Dedicated Cortex-A8 800 MHz processor
* Hardware vector FPU required

Mobile operating system * †


* Android (2.2) FroYo
* Palm webOS
* Symbian S60

* Downloads of Flash Player 10.1 will be available for devices that meet Adobe's minimum hardware and software requirements.

† The release of binaries for mobile platforms to device partners will occur in the first half of 2010. Some in-market devices will be capable of supporting the binary releases immediately from OEMs. To learn more about device availability and support of Flash Player 10.1, please contact the respective device OEM.



http://www.adobe.com/devnet/devices/articles/content_mobilization_faq.html#q07

[SD.]

The Motorola Droid doesn't meet the hardware requirement for CPU speed with a WVGA screen, but they're getting Flash Player 10.1 anyway.

[droll]

sorry folks, at the risk of getting flamed myself, i don't see the point of discussing this unless it is going to make a difference in what Adobe or Nokia will do wrt bringing Flash 10.1 to the N900.

what are we trying to achieve here?

[nosa101]

sorry folks, at the risk of getting flamed myself, i don't see the point of discussing this unless it is going to make a difference in what Adobe or Nokia will do wrt bringing Flash 10.1 to the N900.

what are we trying to achieve here?

Bicker amongst ourselves, whine, b*tch, blame Nokia, blame adobe, blame Apple, and threaten not buy products from the previously mentioned companies.

ANything else I miss?

[attila77]

Trying to understand what the background of the Flash story is (technical or other), so at least we know who to blame/ask and figure out what’s realistically possible, behind the marketing talk on one side and silence on the other. Well that, or the standard INBANA b!tch & wh!ne routine.

[BLIZZARD]

If n900 doesn't meet the minimum requirements then how adobe demonstrated flash 10.1 running on n900?? (that's the vid: http://dailymobile.se/2009/10/26/flash-player-10-1-running-on-nokia-n900/)

[nosa101]

If n900 doesn't meet the minimum requirements then how adobe demonstrated flash 10.1 running on n900?? (that's the vid: http://dailymobile.se/2009/10/26/flash-player-10-1-running-on-nokia-n900/)

That website works on the n900 now

[BLIZZARD]

That website works on the n900 now

At the vid they say that flash 10.1 will run/runs on n900

[nosa101]

At the vid they say that flash 10.1 will run/runs on n900

They "say" but will it?

[BLIZZARD]

They "say" but will it?

That is very confusing:confused::confused: Why not? Adobe used n900 to announce the flash 10.1 on mobile devices. Is nokia the problem????

[dominik]

If n900 doesn't meet the minimum requirements then how adobe demonstrated flash 10.1 running on n900?? (that's the vid: http://dailymobile.se/2009/10/26/flash-player-10-1-running-on-nokia-n900/)

This info is half a year old. It could be that Adobe and/or Nokia have changed their minds.

[Heman1310]

This info is half a year old. It could be that Adobe and/or Nokia have changed their minds.

Yes. But why would they change their minds if they already got it working on the N900?

[nosa101]

That is very confusing:confused::confused: Why not? Adobe used n900 to announce the flash 10.1 on mobile devices. Is nokia the problem????

If we knew the answer to that, this thread would not exist

[dominik]

Yes. But why would they change their minds if they already got it working on the N900?

I don't know either, but technical reasons, business reasons,..?

[attila77]

Yes. But why would they change their minds if they already got it working on the N900?

We can only speculate of course, but

a) they never actually had it working, it was a mockup
b) they switched priorities and think every pair of hands is needed for work on Android
c) the Nokia team he refers to is not Adobe's team but ACTUAL Nokia
d) the Nokia team switched priorities to Symbian
e) he doesn't say it's coming to the N900. He ambiguously says something along the lines 'it ships with 9.4, we'll show a prerelease of 10.1 and will release it to Nokia devices in 2010'
f) TI never delivered on the hardware acceleration/driver front
g) Nokia is dropping/freezing Flash support altogether and moving to the WebKit/HTML5 camp
h) It's not ready yet and will not be ready in the timeframe the N900 will get updates
i) _______ (favourite conspiracy theory)


You can pick multiple choices if you want to.

[sophocha]

I don`t care about Flash 10.1 at the moment....my phone does what I need....meaning that:

1) I can stream justintv flash content on my 900Mhz oc phone
2) I can stream catchup tv world cup streams on low bandwidth
3) I`m happy so far!

[johnel]

Let's hope we'll get updates to the browser to support HTML5 and decent WebKit browser too.

The only thing I miss about a decent Flash implementation is Google maps/Streetview.

I think Nokia have more important things to work on than Flash (closed, ill-supported on platforms except Windows and exclusionary) .

We'd be better off with Silverlight/Moonlight - at least it's open source!!!!!!
(*johnel ducks under desk *)

[impaler]

Here is one user buying a G1 for the flash/air love.

Nobody wants to be accountable to a release date, they obviously have chosen that other development is more of a priority. Pity as I really like maemo and the whole linux phone/tablet thing.

Since I enjoy as3 so much I have to say goodbye. Andorid is where all the flash devs will end up and I predict an explosion of flash mobile targeted content. The development of the new wave of mobile devices inspired by apples success is the next biggest thing for flash/air. If the success of the mobile version is anywhere near the success of flash games .etc designed for the desktop, you cant deny it will be insane! Pity maemo wont be a part of it developing :(

[attila77]

Here is one user buying a G1 for the flash/air love.

Hm, are you sure Flash actually WILL be available for the G1 ? I know FroYo has been hacked onto the G1, but does Flash actually work ? Asking this as the G1 is way, way below Flash for Android minimum requirements.

[impaler]

woops meant the nexus one and flash 10.1 and air are officially supported.

[neotalk]

There may be some hope still......i have been speaking with nokia technical support about this issue. They have stated that flash 10.1 is coming but are very vague about when. The last email(yesterday) i got said the following:

Hi Neo,

This is a follow-up email regarding our call. I want to inform that I called adobe and they said that they don't have official statement when they will release flash player 10.1. The news/release date will be posted on their offical website, WWW.ADOBE.COM. THX

Ren
N900 Tech Support

[neotalk]

oh and if you want to bombard them about this issue....the uk head office number is 01252 866000

and for tech support about this issue maybe bombard them at this email address: SR.update@nokia.com;

[F2thaK]

It has to get it, like I said weeks ago...

[Flandry]

Andorid is where all the flash devs will end up and I predict an explosion of flash mobile targeted content. The development of the new wave of mobile devices inspired by apples success is the next biggest thing for flash/air. If the success of the mobile version is anywhere near the success of flash games .etc designed for the desktop, you cant deny it will be insane! Pity maemo wont be a part of it developing :(

Well if that's what it takes to sink Android, then so be it. Flash on a phone as the primary vehicle for apps is such a colossally bad idea that i'm glad i won't have to be part of that "insanity" (as you so aptly describe it).

It's funny that the creep of minimum requirements by Adobe isn't recognized for what it is: a clear acknowledgment that Flash is too bloated to be a good idea for small battery-powered consumer devices.

Sure it would be nice if the N900 supported 10.1 so that the occasional website run by myopic designers that requires it can be accessed, but it's not really the loss you're making it out to be.

[ysss]

Check this out.. it sounds eerily familiar:

http://www.electronista.com/articles/10/06/18/palm.hints.adobe.not.close.to.flash.on.webos/

Adobe hasn't given any signs that it's close to porting Flash to webOS, Palm said in an AT&T online app development seminar on Thursday. When asked about the multiple delays, a representative said that Palm didn't 'know what the hold-up is' with getting it ready. Adobe itself hasn't commented on the state of the webOS version or of other platforms.

The absence of updates on the status of Flash for webOS casts some doubt on Adobe's plans. Officially, devices from all platforms should have mobile Flash 10.1 in the second half of the year, but so far the strongest sign of development has been a beta for Android 2.2 that, due to its nature, can only run on the Nexus One. Adobe is slated to speak at Verizon's Droid X introduction and may have a finished version of Flash 10.1 ready for the event, but it's unlikely other platforms will get attention.

[bimmer6612]

Hi,

I uploaded a video clip recently to Facebook and try to view it on N900 . The new video Facebook transcoded requires Flash 10.1 to work properly. It seems that more websites are requiring Flash 10.1 to work properly and Nokia's lack of commitment to support Flash 10.1 will become a major issue for N900 owners. Can the Maemo open source community address this problem without Nokia's support?

-- bimmer6612

[sjgadsby]

Can the Maemo open source community address this problem without Nokia's support?

Short answer: No, the Flash plug-in is closed source.

Long answer: Perhaps. Theoretically, a Flash plug-in from a web browser that uses the same plug-in methodology as the Maemo Browser but on another, similar, Linux-based mobile operating system running on the same processor might be made to work on Maemo in the Maemo Browser. Maybe. However, it would violate the licensing of the plug-in.

[sjgadsby]

The thread "New Facebook videos requires Flash 10.1" with two posts has been merged into this thread.

[johnel]

This is why Flash is bad.

It is a proprietory format. The only people who can write a Flash plug-in is Adobe. If they decide your platform is not important enough then you become locked out of from part of the internet.

This goes against the very principle of the open nature of the web.

If the Flash player was open source and allowed anyone to port to a different platform then that's fine.

But it isn't which means Adobe have leverage and hence power.

But like junkies people want thier hit and willing to sacrifice anything to get it.

Very, very sad.

[gerbick]

This is why Flash is bad.

It is a proprietory format. The only people who can write a Flash plug-in is Adobe. If they decide your platform is not important enough then you become locked out of from part of the internet.

If the market was there for it, they'd develop for it. There's not a big enough incentive to make an update. Nokia sure as hell isn't giving any incentive to develop for Maemo, perhaps only for MeeGo.

Flash is only as bad as the lack of the company incentive given for that target. Simply stated, want it, pay for it or grow your market big enough to where you will not be overlooked.

It's like that for any other plugin. Just... most other plugins aren't really used.

[Matan]

The only people who can write a Flash plug-in is Adobe..

Not really.

http://www.gnu.org/software/gnash/

http://swfdec.freedesktop.org/wiki/

[amiraseri]

i think its Q1 2011/2012 rather than 2010 :)

[impaler]

want it, pay for it or grow your market big enough to where you will not be overlooked.

It seems you summed the nature of the market up quite nicely. Maemo is no where near the size of any of the mobile platforms that receive flash 10 attention. Nokia would never be able to justify paying for it, lol

"like junkies people want thier hit and willing to sacrifice anything"

Sure I love the idea of an open web and would love all the technology we use to access it open source. In reality their a way too many third parties involved in every part of the internet making too much money.

Being open source will not guarantee any level of quality or customer support that Adobe offers. Sure there are some open source projects that arguable do offer these things and maybe BETTER! but they are mighty hard to establish "gnash SWF v7+ compliant" so I wont get my hopes up for an open rich media platform as great as flash anytime soon. ( Especially one with the market penetration and community flash has )

[andraeseus1]

you know what. i know a guy. I am gonna call in on a few favors. Dont you guys worry i will have this whole flash 10 craziness sorted out before monday of next week. we will have flash 10 as soon as i ruffle some feathers. you just wait and see

[devu]

you know what. i know a guy. I am gonna call in on a few favors. Dont you guys worry i will have this whole flash 10 craziness sorted out before monday of next week. we will have flash 10 as soon as i ruffle some feathers. you just wait and see

Kevin Lynch? :rolleyes:

[qole]

Matan, can swfdec or gnash play Facebook video? If so, we're set! ;)

[angelbratz]

you know what. i know a guy. I am gonna call in on a few favors. Dont you guys worry i will have this whole flash 10 craziness sorted out before monday of next week. we will have flash 10 as soon as i ruffle some feathers. you just wait and see

Awaiting Good News...Cant take the "Please Update" Message...

[Rushmore]

There may be some hope still......i have been speaking with nokia technical support about this issue. They have stated that flash 10.1 is coming but are very vague about when. The last email(yesterday) i got said the following:

Hi Neo,

This is a follow-up email regarding our call. I want to inform that I called adobe and they said that they don't have official statement when they will release flash player 10.1. The news/release date will be posted on their offical website, WWW.ADOBE.COM. THX

Ren
N900 Tech Support

This seems a generic reply and has nothing to do with the N900. That is the default response given for Android's version of 10.1- Final release (the real one with actual GPU support).

All are still beta releases (current is r3). As Adobe has already clearly stated, it is up to the OS and / or carrier to request and assist with resources to make 10.1 happen for platforms/devices currently not planned. Only ones planned right now are Android and WP7.

It is up to Nokia to tell N900 owners what their plans are. If there are no plans for 10.1- just tell people and stop leaving them hanging.

Nokia (with all due respect to their fans), kind of sucks in the customer relations & PR areas. Actually, they suck real bad, IMO.

[devu]

...All are still beta releases (current is r3). As Adobe has already ...

Nope... they went up to RC7 and 5 days later RC7 became official Flash 10.1. You can go to adobe.com and download this right now. (No like before from labs only)

[devu]

Matan, can swfdec or gnash play Facebook video? If so, we're set! ;)

I was trying to set Gnash many times long time ago on EasyDebian but doesn't work at all :(. Any clues?

[Rushmore]

Nope... they went up to RC7 and 5 days later RC7 became official Flash 10.1. You can go to adobe.com and download this right now. (No like before from labs only)

Are you referring to the Windows desktop version?

Flash 10.1 for Android will remain in beta until GPU support is activated. This is per Adobe Flash team. I am not aware of GPU support being active yet and dev posts on Adobe Flash forums suggest later this summer.

Beta 3 was just released for 2.2 Froyo and has no GPU support.

[mr_ian84]

I would not mind if 10.1 would be released as a beta. A beta is better than nothing.

[zabishah20]

you know what. i know a guy. I am gonna call in on a few favors. Dont you guys worry i will have this whole flash 10 craziness sorted out before monday of next week. we will have flash 10 as soon as i ruffle some feathers. you just wait and see
wow if it would happen.
i ll be the first one to download it.
i ll even contribute $10 to develpoer to support for this project and many others like me ll support him as well.
just make us sure that it gonna happen.

[javispedro]

I would not mind if 10.1 would be released as a beta. A beta is better than nothing.
You DO mind, really. I'm sure you prefer no flash to having the browser crash on each page view.

[gerbick]

You DO mind, really. I'm sure you prefer no flash to having the browser crash on each page view.

Desktop builds did not crash per page view. Same for the Android beta.

Betas from Adobe aren't that bad. It's the alphas I'd steer away from.

[H3llb0und]

http://mobile.venturebeat.com/2010/0...-android-10-1/

Meego is mentioned there as soon... How about Maemo?

[nosa101]

http://mobile.venturebeat.com/2010/0...-android-10-1/

Meego is mentioned there as soon... How about Maemo?

Link not working

[raven]

http://mobile.venturebeat.com/2010/06/21/adobe-flash-android-10-1/

[H3llb0und]

http://mobile.venturebeat.com/2010/06/21/adobe-flash-android-10-1/

My bad, thanks raven

[xuggs]

Just a couple of days ago I was able to view streetview on Google maps and yesterday the same thing popped a msg saying "Adobe Flash 10 or higher is required. Install the latest version of flash."

Can someone confirm this?

[Flamee]

Yes Google Street view not working anymore :(

[twaelti]

And this will happen with more and more content over the next few months, therefore killing one of the major advantages off the N900 in way less than 12 months after it's release.
To Nokia: Your deafness is more than impolite... at least decide on an option to offfer Flash 10.1 as an "upgrade" via the Ovi Store, asking 10$ or 20$.

[gerbick]

Oh great. So now the N900 has the same fate as the N810 - sites are unnecessarily jumping up to Flash Player 10.

[xuggs]

Thx Flamee for confirming.

WTF man if I had known Nokia is gona take a **** on the N900 like this I would've never bought it in the first place. I absolutely love the device but I hate the treatment it's getting from Nokia.

[Flamee]

^2

Same here. Loving this device very much but come on. I really don't want to get to position that I have to sell this device for ridiculously low price if I want to have a real web surfing experience like it seems that Android phones are getting. This is pissing me off.

[nosa101]

....and how many Android devices have working Froyo?

[NokiaRocks]

Nokia should invest some more effort to keep their power user....

[gerbick]

....and how many Android devices have working Froyo?

How many will have Froyo? Quite a few.

It's not out yet. And Flash Player 10.1 just came out June 17th.

But at least Android users - on some, not all phones - know if they are or are not getting an update for the most part.

[Frappacino]

dont bother waiting. Appreciate your n900 for what it is now or seek alternative avenues - hoping in vain is a waste of time.

[IzzehO]

Just curious... will NITDroid be able to handle Flash 10? Is it compiled for each android devices in general? or on a per device basis?