Adobe Flash Player 10: When will the update arrive? Is it coming at all?

[stlpaul]

AFAIK only flash 10.1 support gpu acceleration. If is already gpu accelerate i am disapointed too with the performance in n900.

Congrats on post 1000 in this thread :)

[shadowjk]

There are a zillion different kinds of hw accel..

On standard linux I believe flash uses gl for scaling to fullscreen..

However, plans for h264 decode hw accel on linux were canceled, I think..

[attila77]

...which is sadly an excellent argument why the current Flash plugin governance model sucks. It's not enough they don't want to do it, they don't let anyone else do it. What they don't see, or don't care at this point is that this (coupled with the 64bit debacle) pushes linux towards the flash-averse camp, and that can boomerang back in a year or two.

[ndi]

pushes linux towards the flash-averse camp, and that can boomerang back in a year or two.

They seem to push everyone at this point, it's not like it's all honey over here, either (W). Instabilities, low support, hitches, you name it. We all know how the fruit stands on this issue, too.

IMO, it can't die soon enough. It's not like there's nobody around to carry the feature torch. Besides. How many people say "flash" but mean YouTube(s) plus (maybe) a few games?

[attila77]

They should have lobbied for a tighter integration with browsers or gone outright open (fully open, not the Open Screen type of open-to-outside-help-to-get-us-out-from-the-hole-we-dug-ourselves-and-then-fallen-into). As they are now, I sincerely believe that the only thing keeping them alive is inertia (though inertia can keep things alive for very long periods of time as seen in the MS world).

[noipv4]

proof of hw acceleration on n900 vidz.
the core libraries for h264 acceleration are located in /lib/dsp

h264vdec_sn.dll64P mp4vdec_sn.dll64P
baseimage.dof h264venc_sn.dll64P ringio.dll64P
cexec.out ipp_sn.dll64P usn.dll64P
dfgm.dll64P jpegenc_sn.dll64P wmv9dec_sn.dll64P
dummy.dll64P m4venc_sn.dll64P

[qole]

kevloral: Wonderful, we tried that same hex editing trick on the old N810 flashplayer and it was able to get past the version checks, but it didn't actually work with any of the sites. It's good to see that the N900 version works when hacked.

[SD.]

Flash 10.1 brings some significant new delivery methods

HTTP Dynamic Streaming and Adobe Stratus 2.0

These will help reduce costs for video sites so expect them to implement them sooner or later...

[attila77]

kevloral: Wonderful, we tried that same hex editing trick on the old N810 flashplayer and it was able to get past the version checks, but it didn't actually work with any of the sites. It's good to see that the N900 version works when hacked.

I wonder if the Fremantle Flash can be backported to Diablo...

[SD.]

The Droid is getting Android2.2/Flash10.1 support officially within a week:

http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/30/motorola-droid-getting-android-2-2-next-week/

[keljuk]

proof of hw acceleration on n900 vidz.
the core libraries for h264 acceleration are located in /lib/dsp

h264vdec_sn.dll64P mp4vdec_sn.dll64P
baseimage.dof h264venc_sn.dll64P ringio.dll64P
cexec.out ipp_sn.dll64P usn.dll64P
dfgm.dll64P jpegenc_sn.dll64P wmv9dec_sn.dll64P
dummy.dll64P m4venc_sn.dll64P

So it seems :) and it's turned of by default. Switching it on improved performance quite a bit :) next I'm going to get in to dsp overclocking and see if I can then enjoy any flash video on the internet..

[SD.]

So it seems :) and it's turned of by default. Switching it on improved performance quite a bit :) next I'm going to get in to dsp overclocking and see if I can then enjoy any flash video on the internet..

I went to the settings window and hw acceleration was checked already. Are you on PR 1.2?

[DrWilken]

Same here. HW acceleration on by default (PR1.2).

[poka64]

Hardware acceleration that you see in the window with flash 9 has _nothing_ to do with the kind of flash gpu acceleration that flash 10.1 offers.

[attila77]

Also, Flash 10.1 does not automatically mean hardware acceleration, it is just something that can *optionally* be present on certain platforms (like for example the Flash 10.1 beta had disabled h264 video accel on Android).

[devu]

The microb .....

Regarding to your post and solution I have to add my 2 cents because made me scary what are you doing here.

This showing me lack of understanding of how flash player works.
And this solution is useless. You can fool the flash player version number this way but it doesn't mean you can play real flash 10.0 or 10.1 content at all. Do you really think the only difference between those players are the version no.??

First of all. I am working on my flaemo project and have some internal code to recognize witch version you running to be able to prevent situation that entire project will use some non compatible code.

With this solution you are for sure crash flash player. in any other project that using this method.

Secondly if you developing some project and compile it in Flash 10.1 and you are NOT using anything flash 10.1 or flash 10.0 specific you will be able to see whole content as is. It doesn't mean your original flash 9 will run faster. (It must be some placebo effect guys ;) )

I will give you example in pseudo code.

if you running flash 9 use
private var somevariable:Array = [];
if you running flash 10.0 use
private var somevariable:Vector<*>= new Vector<*>
if you running flash 10.1 use
private var somevariable:Vector<*>= new Vector<*>
Multitouch.inputMode = MultitouchInputMode.TOUCH_POINT;

if you fool your flash 9 and pretend you running 10.* guess what will happen. Yes, dead flash player. Otherwise Every project that is not running flash player version specific code will handle this task itself.
You don't have to cheat this way.

There is another one situation.

If in html code somebody added minimum version required is 10.0.0 and in fact swf is not using anything from flash 10 can happily run. The only blocker is html tag. There is simple way around this issue just call swf file directly!. [Or you can use Attilla77's Flash Launcher and you can REALLY see performance improvements.]

So once again I DO NOT RECOMMEND this solution because is useless, will not speed up anything and make even more content unable to run if some project like flaemo has encapsulation of methods that specific player can or cannot run.

Check this out.
go there with this player installed
http://www.flaemo.com/ctest/

Pseudo Flash player 10.* will run the code up to meet some flash player version specific code and will stuck on manufacturer, because next feature required real flash 10.0. witch is obviously not present in your fake player. There is at least tens of features for each player version added. speeding up a lot of things, there is big difference between flash drawing API methods between flash 9 and 10 and so on.
Flash developers are happy to use it since we where asking adobe waiting for all this stuff. Don't fool yourself!

[attila77]

Just a small addition - what is broken is essentially the logic of version determination. Web/flash devs make two mistakes that break the N900 Flash use-case horribly:

a) they abuse the version determination as an upgrade mechanism. The assumption is that if someone does not have the latest version is because they simply have never gotten around upgrading it, so they just need a nudge. These people think they are making users a favor since they will be upgrading to a version which is faster, more safe, etc.

b) a more generic problem, making compatibility choices based on gut feeling, and not actual technical requirements. Often this is also a side effect of html-copy, when people copy over html sections from other sites on on-line tutorials, without matching version info. "It works on my machine, so it’s OK, right ?"

The problem is IMHO actually deeper - I disagree with the general Adobe practice that the *server* decides the content version the *client* is getting. The server should *advertise* available content versions, or the client be able to *request* a particular version, but the final choice should NOT be on the server - it’s the client that knows what it can or cannot do.

[PradaBrada]

Flash 10.1 support is great! :)

Posted from my HTC Desire

[gerbick]

@devu what's really going on is the fact that most of the requirements of these sites to require FP 10,0,0,0 or higher is a false claim in most parts. Not unless you start to use specific parts of publishing to FP 10.x - such as the newer 3D routines and perhaps the newer FLV encoding do you truly require a FP 10.1 plugin.

I remember a site I had done in FP 8 about two years ago and the people redid the website and via SWFObject made the site require FP10 when they hadn't touched the *.swf nor *.flv's at all.

That is what you're seeing. The moment that things come in such as signed/certificate signed material that requires FP 10 via Flash Media Server or via Flex 4 SDK or Flash CS5; that's when this trick will start to fully fail.

But YouTube, Facebook and even Vimeo don't really require FP 10. The adoption rate of FP 10 allows them to exclude prior iterations of the flash player because most folks upgrade due to security concerns or because it's automatically updated for them.

That supports my rant against other Flash developers. They need to deploy to the level that the features they require are needed. And if it's VP6 encoding, then that's just Flash Player 8. If it's the new 3D stuff, then it's FP 10. If it's h.264 encoded video, then FP 9. If it's AS3 using the newer Spark or fx.namespace, then it's 10.1 (via Flex).

[devu]

Attila77, gerbick you both are obviously right, my concern was that fake flash 9 will not pretend 10 or 10.1 and that is just pointless. But regarding to what you said I can only add, all devices that keeping-up version incrementation are ok and is not big pain really from customer point of view if you can see real benefits like performance improvements.

(I was ignorant to security improvements some while ago, but some day I have seen real danger what Flash can do using binary data, on flash 9.0.115 that was fixed or just patched. I am talking here about direct access from swf to any MySQL data base.)

But from developer point of view, if you are lazy enough or just think vector is so cool that you can use it occasionally to store 3 strings in it... instead of use array you shouldn't be called developer. I will join to your rants here gerbick :)

But that situation only showing us how looks the platform or technology abandoned without support and continuation and not allowance to maintain this by ourselves.

Anyway. From couple of days I'm in deep investigation about cross-compiler possibilities AS3 ->ABC -> SWF - ABC 2 any other stuff even python ->swf, C# -> ABC ->SWF via haxe, LLVM even Action Script based compiler. In other to be able to find solution to write AS3 on n900 on the tube :) I founded something interesting but I don't want to make off topic here.

I founded something even more interesting during this journey.

Lightspark 0.4.2 released on July 20, 2010. (http://allievi.sssup.it/techblog/?cat=75)
Open Source Swf Player for linux. maybe instead of moaning about lack of Flash 10.1, Adobe, Nokia and all the this crap, linux guys should invest their free time and power to support that project.

This is first time I see good effort and developers behind this, did this from ground-up. Actually I am surprised (since Tamarin - ActionScript Virtual Machine 2 is open sourced from 3 years and swf specification is also transparent.) that none of Linux devs didn't notice that potential yet.

Lightspark looks very promising... is anybody here able to port this solution to Maemo? Than we can stop all this annoying threads, get rid of corp dependencies and be happy :)

[SavageD]

Besides the above post, there is also the option of making a petition to nokia so they may bring flash 10 to n900.

[craftyguy]

Besides the above post, there is also the option of making a petition to nokia so they may bring flash 10 to n900.

What does Nokia care? You've already bought the device, so they've already made their money. And there's still a huge customer base that is still frothing at the mouth to buy the next Nokia product.

[gerbick]

Let's see... HTC Desire, EVO 4G, Motorola Droid, and quite a few others have Flash Player 10.1 now. Still no word from Nokia is... downright unacceptable.

[SD.]

http://i25.tinypic.com/t5por6.gif


What's the excuse for this? :mad:

[crown77]

I guess Nokia decided that they never will get there hands on the N900 maemo5 System again. I wouldnt wonder if they dont may speak about it on the Nokia HQ couse its banned.

This is ironic but the sad truth. Did we see anything from Nokia for our N900 devices since PR1.2? Anything?

[gerbick]

Many will argue that new builds of the OS exist now. Many will argue that Flash 10.1 isn't needed or wanted. Many will argue... a lot of things.

But what's not arguable? Froyo is being released on more than just the Nexus One, thus Flash 10.1 is showing up on quite a few handsets that were previously only speculation. And ultimately, the N900 has no concrete date of when this is going to happen for Maemo 5.

Those are the facts.

[attila77]

This is ironic but the sad truth. Did we see anything from Nokia for our N900 devices since PR1.2? Anything?

For the record - we did. The first release of the Web Runtime, an update to QtMobility and a low-level camera API no other platform has. All this while most of Nokia was on vacation. The problem is that users have firmware blindness - no service or upgrade is noticed unless it is part of a firmware. Which is bad, because at some point some manager will say 'hey, why release this, let's wait and run it through the firmware process, if that makes people happy'.

That said, I wouldn't hold my breath for Flash 10. By now it is clear that the Open Screen Project does not work, and that vendors do not wish bear the cost Adobe is trying shift to them. Currently, this means Flash ports are done by 3rd parties (like Movial doing Flash for MeeGo and Android), which in turn means an almost guaranteed bad support cycle. I'm not too optimistic on the future of Flash on mobile platforms, the youngest crop of Android devices got 10.1, but every next upgrade will be fight even for them.

[SD.]

Many will argue that Flash 10.1 isn't needed or wanted. Many will argue... a lot of things.
Flash 10.1 will cut back on video hosting costs in two ways and I think a lot of major hosts will want to switch to using these new delivery methods as soon as possible, when most people on the web have Flash 10.1 installed and not 10.0 or earlier.

Traditionally the Flash Player has had to download an entire video over http at once, even parts the viewer doesn't watch. If someone doesn't watch the entire video then it's a waste of bandwidth for the host. Some sites have deliberately slowed video downloads so viewers who click off early aren't as likely to download the entire file, but it still happens.

With http dynamic streaming the video is sent only in chunks and stitched together by the player(NetStream.AppendBytes()). So if someone watches part of a video they will only download part of the video, guaranteed. The host doesn't have to use bandwidth throttling and it's even an improvement over RTMP streams because of the ability to have a larger buffer. RTMP streams can annoyingly skip if the viewer's download speed is too slow.

Flash 10.1 also makes it possible to have a "zero cost" video site with P2P file sharing. Here's a proof of concept posted last week:

http://www.flashrealtime.com/video-on-demand-over-p2p-in-flash-player-101-with-object-replication/

[shadowjk]

Funny that, http has supported byte range requests for files since forever..

Coincidentally, the youtube http server lies and says it doesn't support resume, but actually does..

MPlayer can stream and seek inside .avi without downloading the entire file, over http, when the http server supports resume.. So it sounds to me like they're first sabotaging regular resume, and then fixing it by reinventing something new they can sell or patent..

[xuggs]

I hate that I cant stream music from http://www.deezer.com/en/ and it's a shame. I know there are alternatives like last.fm etc but thats not the point. Deezer has various mobile options as well including Android, Iphone, Blackberry etc but nothing for Maemo :( heart broken!

[SD.]

Funny that, http has supported byte range requests for files since forever..

Coincidentally, the youtube http server lies and says it doesn't support resume, but actually does..

MPlayer can stream and seek inside .avi without downloading the entire file, over http, when the http server supports resume.. So it sounds to me like they're first sabotaging regular resume, and then fixing it by reinventing something new they can sell or patent..
Yea I don't see the reason why they created the F4M/F4F format and an Apache plugin. Both are open spec so they're not trying to sell it but I don't see the point of it. F4F files are pre-split fragments and the Apache plugin seems to just hide the extension.

Range requests can be made in AIR with URLRequestHeader (http://livedocs.adobe.com/flash/9.0/ActionScriptLangRefV3/flash/net/URLRequestHeader.html) but "Range" headers are specifically blocked right now in Flash Player. A possible workaround is probably to modify the web server to accept an alias like "X-Range" or "Range2". The header would also have to be approved in a crossdomain.xml file.

Pre-splitting your own way with any file splitter and requesting the fragments without any server changes should work with NetStream.AppendBytes too. Maybe there's an additional performance benefit to having fragments pre-split instead of using range headers. Official Range header support would be nice though regardless.

[craftyguy]

http://i25.tinypic.com/t5por6.gif


What's the excuse for this? :mad:

Pshh Nov. 11th release date? Seriously?

It was at LEAST Dec 10th before they were actually available anywhere.. (here in the US anyways)

[ndi]

It was supposed to launch Dec 15 in Romania. Got it Dec 1st. I do remember it was a limited release, 5 countries only, EU. It wasn't until 20th or 25th Nov that they started shipping outside Europe. I remember ordering it 28th and arriving 29th or 30th. I have files dated Dec 1.

[alcockell]

Is there any lobbying that can be done to get Adobe to reconsider AND GIVE US FLASH 10.1???

[Jack6428]

Is there any lobbying that can be done to get Adobe to reconsider AND GIVE US FLASH 10.1???

It's up to Nokia, not Adobe. Remember that.

[Memph1s]

need flash! need flash now!

[attila77]

It's up to Nokia, not Adobe. Remember that.

It's up to both. Remember that.

[mikecomputing]

need flash! need flash now!

Why is flash soo important?

Its time everyone kills flash anyway its a deadend. No serius developer should deevelop apps in flash anyway. its not true multiplatform and eats cpu :( learn html5 atleast its more open that crap like flash.

[HellFlyer]

Why is flash soo important?

Its time everyone kills flash anyway its a deadend. No serius developer should deevelop apps in flash anyway. its not true multiplatform and eats cpu :( learn html5 atleast its more open that crap like flash.

Trolling eh?

Flash is far superior than html 5 and believe me there is a lot of stuff to learn if you want to develop in flash , html 5 on the other hand is very very easy

Please learn difference between real programing and markup languages

Thanks :)

[Fötus]

I think Nokia should just use this forum to look up what their customers want and what they expect of Nokia to do for their device most, because in the end - these are all potential customers for upcoming Nokia phones, they might all get Nokia some revenue - and it is a shame to displease these people so much. When I've bought the N900 and saw the video of Kevin Lynch presenting Flash Player 10.1 on the N900 I was really excited and thought it would be out in a few months...but now, exactly 10 months after the presentation, it seems to look really bad.
But why is Nokia doing this, is it, because they think if we get Flash 10 we wouldn't buy the next model/phone or something we don’t understand? I'm sure if the next flagship has great ingredients, most of the people who use the N900 will also very likely buy it.
I just can not see why they keep Flash Player 10 away from us. They said, this phone is all about the computer-like internet experience and now one of their main selling points is fading. It's a really sad story - but I still hope that it will have a happy end.

PS: I wish someone at Nokia would read some of the more than 1000 posts in this thread, and take some action.

[Jack6428]

It's up to both. Remember that.

Not anymore. Remember that.

[longcat]

all of this is whatever

[attila77]

Not anymore. Remember that.

Not anymore as in 'Kevin Lynch pointed a finger at them so it must be their fault' ? The whole our-people-are-in-contact-with-their-people seems to be b******t. As the Open Screen Project is verging on the edge of massive failure, Flash ports are reportedly done by third party companies (for example, Movial does Flash for Android vendors and MeeGo). I would not bet on Flash, there is a good chance the Android 10.1 edition is a swan song (in mobile space).

http://www.businesswire.com/portal/site/home/permalink/?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20100707005526&newsLang=en

When I've bought the N900 and saw the video of Kevin Lynch presenting Flash Player 10.1 on the N900 I was really excited and thought it would be out in a few months...but now, exactly 10 months after the presentation, it seems to look really bad.
But why is Nokia doing this, is it, because they think if we get Flash 10 we wouldn't buy the next model/phone or something we don’t understand?

My favorite conspiracy theory is that Flash 10.1 on the N900 never existed. Kevin Lynch showed a Flash 9 site on the N900 in order to present the, by then heavily delayed, Flash 10.1 effort being on track and having industry wide support. Notice how polished Flash looked on the N900 compared to the Android versions. Nokia, polite as they are, would not deny nor confirm either case, anyway.

[ndi]

My favorite conspiracy theory is that Flash 10.1 on the N900 never existed. Kevin Lynch showed a Flash 9 site on the N900 in order to present the, by then heavily delayed, Flash 10.1 effort being on track and having industry wide support.

The more I ask around and read about Flash 10, the more I realize I wouldn't be able to tell the difference - by the way, it was a "demo of how flash 10 will work", that is not to say it was actually flash 10, that it was ready, done, or a proof of concept. It's not like F10 unlocks some key feature that can't be emulated on F9.

[attila77]

by the way, it was a "demo of how flash 10 will work", that is not to say it was actually flash 10, that it was ready, done, or a proof of concept.

No, he literally says "it actually supports Flash player 9 out in the market, but today, I'm able to to show it running Flash player 10.1 which is coming to Nokia's mobile phones in 2010". That's what the man said. And even if you think Nokia is super-evil and wants to keep Flash 10 away from N900 users (so you upgrade or whatnot), it still doesn't make sense that Adobe, a company desperately struggles to show Flash has industry-wide support and a future in both mobile and desktop computing, doesn't put up even a generic ARM version, or an alpha/beta, basically ANYTHING that would remotely corroborate that THAT N900 could have run Flash 10.1 (plus, as stated previously, we already know that the Flash 10.1 version for future MeeGo devices is not even done by Nokia).

[johnel]

Who knows? If Flash 10 is to be included in MeeGo at some point (it would need to be for the next MeeGo device - next year?) then maybe the n900 may actually get a Flash backport.


Personally I can live without Flash on my n900 but many people want it - Nokia/Adobe/Whoever should really do something.

[Bec]

If I'd want to live without flash I would have an iPhone...

[maxximuscool]

If I'd want to live without flash I would have an iPhone...

Agreed! but someone already hacked flash to iPAD and iPHONE4 could this be a change? i really hope no flash on the iphone4 ever! period!

This way people with an iphone4 won't be too arrogant toward others.

[imperiallight]

There is already an app to view and play flash 10.1 content on the iphone "cloudbrowse", it uses a remote computer and it works fine.

[F2thaK]

fact: flash 10.1 DOES work on the N900 to SOME extent...........

[cfh11]

There is already an app to view and play flash 10.1 content on the iphone "cloudbrowse", it uses a remote computer and it works fine.

"works fine" is a bit of an exaggeration... last I saw it was pretty damn laggy

[imperiallight]

Its somewhere in between

[Laughing Man]

"works fine" is a bit of an exaggeration... last I saw it was pretty damn laggy

Can't imagine it would be any faster than doing the same thing on the N900 (setup your computer and just do an ssh x tunnel so you can see..say Firefox on the N900).

[attila77]

Who knows? If Flash 10 is to be included in MeeGo at some point (it would need to be for the next MeeGo device - next year?) then maybe the n900 may actually get a Flash backport.

MeeGo, as the Linux Foundation (meego.com) project is never going to include Flash, not other proprietary components like Skype, etc. This is basically the same angle as, say, Debian Linux. MeeGo *devices* OTOH can include Flash should the particular vendor of the device think it's important enough/worth ponying up the cash to have Flash. It seems that there is little trust in Flash, given that vendors pay 3rd parties on a case-by-case basis to get Flash - if they really believed Flash was a strategic objective, they would be doing Flash in-house with their own teams, not outsourcing it. This applies to all mobile platforms, though, not just MeeGo.

[Jack6428]

If I'd want to live without flash I would have an iPhone...

Amen to that LOL!

[johnel]

MeeGo, as the Linux Foundation (meego.com) project is never going to include Flash, not other proprietary components like Skype, etc. This is basically the same angle as, say, Debian Linux. MeeGo *devices* OTOH can include Flash should the particular vendor of the device think it's important enough/worth ponying up the cash to have Flash. It seems that there is little trust in Flash, given that vendors pay 3rd parties on a case-by-case basis to get Flash - if they really believed Flash was a strategic objective, they would be doing Flash in-house with their own teams, not outsourcing it. This applies to all mobile platforms, though, not just MeeGo.

OK. When Nokia release their first MeeGo device - we can assume it will have MeeGo and Nokia-specific applications too (e.g. OVI maps, Flash).

If the hardware does not radically change from the n900 (e.g. graphics chip) would it be possible to copy the Flash binary and install it to the n900 (e.g. with MeeGo installed)?

I imagine the Nokia stuff including Flash would be under a "non-distribute" license but from a technical point maybe it's possible?

[Laughing Man]

MeeGo, as the Linux Foundation (meego.com) project is never going to include Flash, not other proprietary components like Skype, etc. This is basically the same angle as, say, Debian Linux. MeeGo *devices* OTOH can include Flash should the particular vendor of the device think it's important enough/worth ponying up the cash to have Flash. It seems that there is little trust in Flash, given that vendors pay 3rd parties on a case-by-case basis to get Flash - if they really believed Flash was a strategic objective, they would be doing Flash in-house with their own teams, not outsourcing it. This applies to all mobile platforms, though, not just MeeGo.

In that case we can safely say the Meego build the N900 is getting will not have flash. If we do have flash it'll have to be done by the community (grabbing it out of Nokia's version of Meego that they're putting on the next device). So then the question is..

a) how probably is it
b) will Nokia actively try to stop it

[fatalsaint]

MeeGo, as the Linux Foundation (meego.com) project is never going to include Flash, not other proprietary components like Skype, etc. This is basically the same angle as, say, Debian Linux. MeeGo *devices* OTOH can include Flash should the particular vendor of the device think it's important enough/worth ponying up the cash to have Flash. It seems that there is little trust in Flash, given that vendors pay 3rd parties on a case-by-case basis to get Flash - if they really believed Flash was a strategic objective, they would be doing Flash in-house with their own teams, not outsourcing it. This applies to all mobile platforms, though, not just MeeGo.

Actually I that's a bit limited... well I mean that flash will be device specific.

As you said, like Debian, MeeGo may not include it in it's browser (chrome/chromium right now, but fennec and real firefox should be installable too) by default, however a "non-free" repository could be setup and installable by any device running the same archtecture and OS (MeeGo).

So, say someone releases a MeeGo without Flash, or someone (like us on the N900), load the completely free MeeGo from the builds.. Flash should still be attainable no different than if we loaded debian and then went and downloaded it.

[attila77]

If the hardware does not radically change from the n900 (e.g. graphics chip) would it be possible to copy the Flash binary and install it to the n900 (e.g. with MeeGo installed)?

I imagine the Nokia stuff including Flash would be under a "non-distribute" license but from a technical point maybe it's possible?

In that case we can safely say the Meego build the N900 is getting will not have flash. If we do have flash it'll have to be done by the community (grabbing it out of Nokia's version of Meego that they're putting on the next device). So then the question is..

a) how probably is it
b) will Nokia actively try to stop it

It will be hard to tell until it finally surfaces. The fact that someone manages to kick around the Android flash build enough to run on iOS means it should be doable (the devil being in the details, as usual).

I don't think Nokia will actually try to stop it (they had far more reasons to block stuff like the FM enabler on the N900 but they never bothered). Keep in mind though it cannot bless it either because the only party that has a say over Flash distribution is Adobe. In that case the options are a) write a heartfelt letter to Kevin Lynch, b) maemo.org should try to became an Open Screen Project member, c) go underground

[attila77]

As you said, like Debian, MeeGo may not include it in it's browser (chrome/chromium right now, but fennec and real firefox should be installable too) by default, however a "non-free" repository could be setup and installable by any device running the same archtecture and OS (MeeGo).


Close but no cigar. I have been harping about thing for a while... Unlike for desktops and Android, Adobe does not provide a public ARM Flash you can download for any of the platforms it claims support so far. For example, say I want to transplant the N900 Flash to N8x0. Okay, add the N900 repo to the N8x0... except, the Flash is not in the repo, but in the firmware. Aham. Okay, let's download the N900 firmware then and mount/extract it from there. Except due to licensing requirements you can't download that unless you have a N900 (=IMEI). Whoops. So no matter how you look at it, Flash on mobiles is borked in every way, technically, legally, openness and community-wise, you name it.

EDIT: And before jumps the gun and says then MeeGo, N900 and everything is doomed and we will never have Flash - the same problem applies to ALL platforms, even Android - there is no way telling how a phone will get future upgrades past FroYo, if there ever will be another major Flash version past 10.1 (having FroYo is no guarantee - the HTC Hero had a functional Flash 9 and only got a 'sorry' note instead of the next version of Flash).

[fatalsaint]

Close but no cigar. I have been harping about thing for a while... Unlike for desktops and Android, Adobe does not provide a public ARM Flash you can download for any of the platforms it claims support so far. For example, say I want to transplant the N900 Flash to N8x0. Okay, add the N900 repo to the N8x0... except, the Flash is not in the repo, but in the firmware. Aham. Okay, let's download the N900 firmware then and mount/extract it from there. Except due to licensing requirements you can't download that unless you have a N900 (=IMEI). Whoops. So no matter how you look at it, Flash on mobiles is borked in every way, technically, legally, openness and community-wise, you name it.


The other problem going from N900 to N8x0 is I don't think they are binary compatible. C apps required a recompile IIRC.

But short of that.. if any phone comes out with flash with MeeGo.. then libflashplayer.so file should be copyable to any other MeeGo device on that same architecture.

I never said legally.. I just said possible. Hence the "non-free" repository...

[attila77]

I never said legally.. I just said possible. Hence the "non-free" repository...

non-free != illegal (though it certainly would be an interesting prospect :) )

[fatalsaint]

non-free != illegal (though it certainly would be an interesting prospect :) )

Well.. ya... know.. applicable to local laws in your state/government/continent :D.

I mean, isn't it technically "illegal" to watch a DVD you own on Linux?? You have to download the dvd decryption libraries and code and it essentially does a mini "hack" on every DVD in order to watch it.. so all of those items are in the third-party "risky" repositories. (I know there is two sides to this debate, but that is my point..)

So in any case, I just think it's definitely going to be possible to obtain Flash.. it just may come with a warning of "questionable" on whether you should or not with your specific device.

[SD.]

Flash 10.1 could officially be coming to old ARM11 Android phones that are getting the jump to Froyo too. LG Ally seems to be the first one: http://www.phonedog.com/2010/08/06/lg-ally-will-receive-android-2-2/

[HellFlyer]

If I'd want to live without flash I would have an iPhone...

Yeah but keep in mind that Apple is pushing HTML 5 on their devices , if I knew that Nokia is going to update Microb with full html 5 support I wouldn't worry but the fact is Nokia is silent :confused:

Maybe new version of Fennec will have html 5 support?:)

[attila77]

Flash 10.1 could officially be coming to old ARM11 Android phones that are getting the jump to Froyo too. LG Ally seems to be the first one: http://www.phonedog.com/2010/08/06/lg-ally-will-receive-android-2-2/

The article does not say that it's going to have Flash 10.1 (FroYo *supports* but does not *imply* Flash). Adobe has stated Cortex A8 (=ARMv7) as a minimum on their own requirements page, so, call me skeptical :)

[cmsjkung]

I buy N900 because N900 got a good web browse and I saw a demo video showing N900 play flash video using flash player 10.1 a few months ago.....

I really want refund now......

[scottuss]

Where did you see the demo video, perhaps the person that made the video could give you some pointers, no?

[SD.]

The article does not say that it's going to have Flash 10.1 (FroYo *supports* but does not *imply* Flash). Adobe has stated Cortex A8 (=ARMv7) as a minimum on their own requirements page, so, call me skeptical :)
They can still install it from the Market since there's no CPU checks currently the last time I checked but it won't run at all according to a thread discussing a custom 2.2 firmware for the G1. So the slowest phones running the 10.1 android port successfully will probably always be ARMv7 or above.

Despite the fact FP10.1's requirements are listed as 800mhz ARMv7 minimum for WVGA screens, Verizon's marketing materials for the Droid update (http://www.droid-life.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/frg22-1.jpg) have the first key feature being Flash 10.1 support. I don't know if Adobe will take away Flash 10.1 from 550/600mhz ARMv7 phones after this. Considering how many people are using the Droid currently, Verizon and Adobe would be railed against if it were removed at this point.

[attila77]

500 vs 800 Mhz is not an issue, I agree, but ARM11 vs ARMv7 is, especially as most ARMv7 cores were usually accompanied with a completely different set of video features (OpenGL2 ES vs 1, H264 HW codec, etc). So while the Droid is a realistic target, it would be very interesting to see the Ally get an exception, especially since the AFAIK far popular Hero didn’t.

[cmsjkung]

Where did you see the demo video, perhaps the person that made the video could give you some pointers, no?

http://nokia-n900.com/flash-player-10-1-on-nokia-n900/

[HellFlyer]

I buy N900 because N900 got a good web browse and I saw a demo video showing N900 play flash video using flash player 10.1 a few months ago.....

I really want refund now......

Sorry no refunds final sale only :D yep just like in a cheap Chinese store

[woodyear99]

Wish it was updated, can no longer view videos posted on facebook :(

[attila77]

Wish it was updated, can no longer view videos posted on facebook :(

Until facebook really starts using Flash 10 features, you can use TweakFlashVer (http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=59336) to work around this issue (use the 10.0.45 recommended version to get facebook to cooperate)

[woodyear99]

Thanks, did not see that when I did a search for Flash in the forums.

[Bec]

Well I tried flash 10.1 on NITdroid... weak... really really weak is all I can say. Maybe it doesn't run at it's full potential even though I ran it with full hardware acceleration on the froyo based version.

Bottom line flash 10.1 clearly states minimum 800 mhz, I don't know if overclocking is yet possible (in NITdroid).

On the other hand, trying android... well it's not an experience as good as I expected. The OS is heavy button dependent compared with N900 that is almost fully touch operated.

I suggest everyone thinking of android, trying NITdroid first. Either now or wait for an easier install method. It's worth it and it will give you a really good idea about android...

[ZShakespeare]

Since gpu acceleration support on NITDroid is currently basic, it would be very foolish to use that as a yardstick for performance. A much better guage would be it's performance on the 2.2 Motorola Droid/Milestone as they use the same SOC as the n900.

Overclocking in NITDroid is possible, but instructions are not given becuase it's a good way to wreck your device if you don't know what you are doing.

[Bec]

That's a good thing though.

Speaking of NIT, don't you know some task managers? Holding a button is not only annoying but also inefficient.

I think of something that allows viewing running/paused apps and closing them. The recent thing totally confuses me. The internal app manager is decent but it's hard to reach and useless for multitasking.

So anything?

[stlpaul]

http://nokia-n900.com/flash-player-10-1-on-nokia-n900/

You saw a video of Flash running on N900, while they were talking about Flash 10.1. I don't think anyone ever says this N900 is running Flash 10.1. In fact the flash on your N900 works exactly the same as the flash on the N900 in this video... because it probably is the same :)

[xuggs]

You saw a video of Flash running on N900, while they were talking about Flash 10.1. I don't think anyone ever says this N900 is running Flash 10.1. In fact the flash on your N900 works exactly the same as the flash on the N900 in this video... because it probably is the same :)

That's not the point. The video not running FP 10.1 on N900 is fine but promising that N900 will have FP 10.1 is not fine.

[matts76]

That's not the point. The video not running FP 10.1 on N900 is fine but promising that N900 will have FP 10.1 is not fine.

Who promised that the N900 would get flash 10.1?

[xuggs]

Who promised that the N900 would get flash 10.1?

Somewhere in this same thread I posted the source but I am too lazy to find that..

[sophocha]

Now, I don`t mind the N900 not having Flash 10.1, but today Iphone4 has full Flash 10.1 with the help of Frash!....Now this is the last draw....wake up nokia or else your customers will go bye bye.

[gerbick]

Now, I don`t mind the N900 not having Flash 10.1, but today Iphone4 has full Flash 10.1 with the help of Frash!....Now this is the last draw....wake up nokia or else your customers will go bye bye.

How is it the last straw? I mean, I totally get how other platforms are getting it and you would like it too... but as it stands, the Flash Tweak is pretty darn clever. The fact that Adobe Flash 10.1 requires 800mhz (despite coming to the Motorola Droid, which is at 550mhz) then... well, let's just put it out there.

Until another enterprising soul decides to go the Frash method for the N900, you're SOL. I'm just amazed at how how the most closed system got Flash first.

Meanwhile, I'm waiting until September for Froyo for my Captivate.

[geohsia]

I'm just amazed at how how the most closed system got Flash first.

Ironic isn't it. The best part is that it's Android code and uses a compatibility layer. I'm sure Steve's was thrilled to hear about this.

[bxbomber]

Even the iphone has got flash 10.1 lol

[bxbomber]

Yeah but keep in mind that Apple is pushing HTML 5 on their devices , if I knew that Nokia is going to update Microb with full html 5 support I wouldn't worry but the fact is Nokia is silent :confused:

Maybe new version of Fennec will have html 5 support?:)

I'm pretty sure that the mozilla team will be adding html5 support to fennec.

Now with all the rumors about an ovi browser, I wonder how that will handle html5?

[crown77]

you are right bxbomber you all can take a look

here http://www.engadget.com/2010/08/08/flash-ported-to-iphone-4-available-for-download-video/

So its quite the same Hardware Architecture like the N900 i did read we cant get flash 10.1 about the Processor couse its not aviable for it but this argument shouldnt be working now.

[sophocha]

Even the iphone has got flash 10.1 lol

That`s what I mean.That`s why I got so mad.A closed system like the iphone is getting Flash first and we the open system N900 is getting ****!

[eme]

i'm angry, very angry ...

why?
the n900 was the first phone on that flash 10.1 was promoted ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tle2XnbWFlQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pee3nT4bPw4

and now?
the n900 will be the last phone (and thats not sure) what will get flash 10.1

NOKIA sorry - but you are crap

[James_Littler]

NOKIA sorry - but you are crap

Too true, don't apologise though, someone has to tell them (even if they dont listen!)

Has anyone phoned NOKIA customer care yet (playing dumb) and said that their phone is broken as it's not playing 'tinternet videos' anymore?

[Bec]

I'm leaving. As immature and clumsy android would be (tried it a lot lately) I know I don't need a new phone for a damn software update.

Once meego is released and I see them quit the "no new OS version for your phone symbian policy" and offer shall we say meego 2.0 to their first meego phone I might be back.

But with this attitude... pfff good luck on selling those s40 phones!

[sdstrowes]

Now, I don`t mind the N900 not having Flash 10.1, but today Iphone4 has full Flash 10.1 with the help of Frash!....Now this is the last draw....wake up nokia or else your customers will go bye bye.
Forgive my ignorance, but: How does Frash do it? If there's no official Flash build for iPhone, how open or available is the source?

[attila77]

They replicate an android-like environment under iOS so it could run even though the binary is for the Android. I'm pretty certain that the N900 could do the same if some enterprising hacker with too much time on his hand put in the effort in it. Of course, there is always the question how well it would integrate with the browser (with stuff like cursor mode, etc). Still, currently Flash on mobiles is a monoculture - ARMv7 FroYo. Am curious as to where are the promised releases (or even alphas/betas) for BB, Symbian, webOS and the others (webOS would probably an easier donor-job than Android).

[Reffyyyy]

I thought that Flash for iPhone doesn't play video yet?

[sophocha]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYVG-cKHPIE

1gb cpu, 720p video, flash 10.1....hm....it is interesting I will admit it, and I`m hardcore anti-apple

[romanianusa]

I think Flash 10.1 or the FREE OVI VOICE NAV are dead for N900.

[danx]

My favorite booby site just went flash 10.1 . ahh no more sites like that !!

[longcat]

<prediction>n900 will get flash 10 soon</prediction>

[SD.]

I thought that Flash for iPhone doesn't play video yet?

It doesn't and theres no guarantee that it ever will. Flash 10.1 for MeeGo might be easier to port fully to Maemo and iOS.

[neotalk]

here is an example of were flash 10.1 is oh so badly needed....in firefox it asks for a pluggin which when selected does not work...in microb it works for a few seconds stutters then restarts stutters and restarts etc etc etc....this is typical of lots of sights i visit now....i will not use any fake methods so this is something i will just have to put up with i guess unless it does come to the n900

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/video/2010/jul/25/julian-assange-wikileaks-interview-warlogs

[neotalk]

thankfuly for myself in the uk the guys that brought us tvcplayer have helped fill the gap for live tv.....but for media news sites i am getting blocked out now.

[neotalk]

could someone who uses tweakflash test this page please and report back on how it plays please.....many thanks in advance


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/video/2010/jul/25/julian-assange-wikileaks-interview-warlogs

[attila77]

could someone who uses tweakflash test this page please and report back on how it plays please.....many thanks in advance


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/video/2010/jul/25/julian-assange-wikileaks-interview-warlogs

Version set to 10.0.45, sound works fine, albeit quite choppy video on the stock kernel.

[H3llb0und]

I posted this on Nokia Australia's Facebook post about OVI Maps

Me:
Where is the latest version of OVI maps and Flash 10.1 for Maemo?

I love my N900, it is still the best smartphone overall for me, but
Nokia, you are pushing me to go Android and forget about how awesome Maemo/Meego could be if it wasn't for the fact that your support sucks!

Nokia Australia:
Hi guys, we are checking with the Maps team and the N900 product manager - will get back to you once we receive an answer.

Me:
Thanks for your reply Nokia Australia, but we have been getting that response for months now.
I don't get it. The N900 was the first mobile where Adobe showed Flash 10.1 working, there are videos on youtube... unless it was all fake.

Nokia Australia:
Hi, sorry we haven't gotten back to you sooner re: flash 10.1 and maps, we're chasing to get you a definitive answer. We can however confirm that the video you saw of Flash 10.1 was real but it was a prototype. We will keep on chasing but wanted to flag that we hadn't forgotten about your questions.

So basically, the same answer over and over again until we quit asking.

[gdav]

I think it is time to "raise" our voices.
There is no direct answer form Nokia, that flash player 10.1 will be available to the n900.
Reading all the discussions over and over on the internet and the nokia support forums. I get the feeling that there NEVER will be a flash player 10.1 update for the n900.
So if Nokia think, they can ignore us we have to make trouble.

Every n900 user should write an email to Nokia support and ask if flahs player 10.1 is coming to the n900 and also when the update will arrive.

The last part of the email should be something like:
"On which way I can return the n900 to Nokia and get my money back."
I know, we have no direct chance, but simple asking this question should be a good way to show Nokia who frustrated we are.

One of the key features at the n900 advertisement was the flash player and "how cool it is". And now this device is "broken" I think.

[vivek5000]

C`mon guys.. Nokia N900 is suppose to be an INTERNET TABLET and not a normal cellphone.. The purpose of an Internet Tablet mainly is to surf Internet websites.. And now a days if websites use Flash 10.1, then that basic requirement should be provided by Nokia without which sites becomes useless.. Hence, this is cheating N900 users & may be we all should file a Legal suit against NOKIA !!

WE DONT NEED MONEY, WE NEED FLASH 10.1 !!!

[m0da]

Think about this:

When the cellular functions weren't perfect, we all stated that the N900 is first and foremost "an internet tablet." Well, the internet tablet functions aren't all there now. What argument stands up here?

[gerbick]

I don't quite get the logic in suing a company over technology they don't directly control, they only deploy it. Can't sue them over not deploying it on your current handset... if that's the case, that will start a domino effect and obsolescence will ultimately have to be defined in a court of law.

And I wouldn't want that.

[vivek5000]

Nokia defined N900 as an Internet Tablet everywhere.. So there cannot be two ways about it.. I have enough evidence in writing from Nokia who themselves claimed for N900 to be an Internet Tablet.. It is obviously like cheating consumers where consumers cannot surf websites properly on an Internet Tablet.. And I also have a mail from Adobe stating that their binaries are ready, however it is Nokia who has to work on it to suit N900..

[gerbick]

Nokia defined N900 as an Internet Tablet everywhere.. So there cannot be two ways about it.. I have enough evidence in writing from Nokia who themselves claimed for N900 to be an Internet Tablet.. It is obviously like cheating consumers where consumers cannot surf websites properly on an Internet Tablet.. And I also have a mail from Adobe stating that their binaries are ready, however it is Nokia who has to work on it to suit N900..

They defined an internet tablet with Flash 9.4 capabilities and delivered just that.

No comment about "updates" are anywhere in any definition. Flash 10.1 was shown by a third party, Adobe at their Adobe MAX last October. No word from Nokia (not surprising) about it ever was made official.

I'm not baiting nor arguing against you; I truly get your point. But step back out of the disappointment and you'll see that this is "business as usual" once you're purchased any gadget.

There's no guarantee that you will get an update even if terms like "computer" are used and we're used to updating them, right?

Cooler heads shall prevail my friend.

[xuggs]

Yes please get over it. Why stress yourself so much? You can get an android and relax about it. Nothing you say or do will bring support for Flash 10.1 on N900 immediately. If at all it needs to come then it is probably already in planning and no they won't tell you when it will or will not come. So chill yall'.

[Spotfist]

Surely the fact that the n900 is hardly a year old and already obsolete considering it was labeled a flash ready internet tablet gives us a strong reason to be upset?

At the end of the day it is a business decision and in my opinion a bad one, I have owned one Nokia before my n900 and I truly do think that the n900 is probably the best phone I have ever had but Nokia's dreadfull customer support means that when it comes to my next phone choice I will not be selecting a nokia!

Flash 10.1 was shown running on the n900 so what's the crack? No communication from Nokia, hell I just wish they handed over the the entire source for the n900 and all the work to date and be done with it, would save us all a load of grief!

[gdav]

I got an answer from Nokia support (Germany), which sounds like:
"There are many applications and ring tones by 3rd parties at NOKIA OVI Store. But they can't told me if the software (flash player 10.1) is for sale or is available."

Also I called the support. They said to me, that they don't know when flash player 10.1 will be available. This depends from model version and build number of my phone (rofl). But they can't give me an answer, but she will forward my wishes to the development bureau.

I asked again and I know exactly:
I will never buy a product from Nokia again.

[Bec]

Well, my N900 is up for sale (planning to get the (much cheaper in my country) galaxy S so it's either or.
Either somebody buys it and I'll move to android or flash does come up and I cancel the sale.

[nax3000]

Well, my N900 is up for sale (planning to get the (much cheaper in my country) galaxy S so it's either or.
Either somebody buys it and I'll move to android or flash does come up and I cancel the sale.

Christ, if you're going to switch to an android device at least go with the Droid 2. Samsung's android phones are meh compared to the droids.

I'm hopeful that if nokia won't deliver, at least the community might :D I'm guessing Adobe only gives their dev tools to make flash 10.1 happen to corporations with lots of cash?

[sophocha]

With 10.0.45 (desktop version hack) video works excellent except a slight jittering on sound (on lehto 900 mhz kernel).With Froyo version the video restarts itself.

So, if anybody wants Flash 10.1 at least try the Flash hack.It works excellent!

Version set to 10.0.45, sound works fine, albeit quite choppy video on the stock kernel.

[Bec]

@nax

Umm... NO!

I'm a previous owner of motorola (sigh - worst build quality I've seen in my life) and sony (with their damn useless under-performing M2 memory cards, crappy pop-port, bug-full OSes and never arriving updates).

As an example, the 3G speed of droid 2 "Rev. A, up to 3.1 Mbps". I know them for keeping it real cheap and not eve if they sold a phone made out of titanium would I buy it.

I'm not a previous samsung owner but the i8910 (symbian) was certainly a hit, if you know HX (custom roms) the things that have been moded and enhanced on that device are amazing, even though samsung provided little support.

And with android although the OS requires a ridiculous amount of buttons, doesn't have a task manager, etc etc, the updates keep rolling from google and if samsung would stop support I believe community updates wouldn't be to difficult to bring (I hope).

So yes I'm a most difficult client with little options. I certainly won't return to nokia unless they change their policy of (not) offering upgrades.

[nax3000]

You're actually the first person I hear that said that Motorola's build quality is poor. All I've been hearing is that the droid and droid x are built like tanks.
Also I personally like the vanilla android - no "skins" and UI overlays for me, which is what the droid 2 provides.
Oh well, to each his own.

[leetut]

i just turn phone off and boot into nitdroid and can watch flash10 vids all night long no problem, then when i want to use maemo i turn phone off and boot maemo,
personally i think nokia did a good job building a phone capable of doing that! (along with all the community devs who also made it possible!)
n900 is an awesome device, nuff said

[Bec]

Only thing is that flash in NIT is still choppy. That and the fact that NIT drains the battery like hell and freezes every now and then...

[alexseif]

i tried to install adobe flash player 10.1 on N900 maemo 5 of of some guide on the internet.. And drastically I failed
Now I'm not able to revert to the flash player I had before (9.4)
I'v tried a couple of things but can't get flash to run again, can someone please help

[sjgadsby]

i tried to install adobe flash player 10.1 on N900 maemo 5 of of some guide on the internet.. And drastically I failed

Do you have a link to the guide? It may help others see what changes you may have made to your system.

Now I'm not able to revert to the flash player I had before (9.4)
I'v tried a couple of things but can't get flash to run again, can someone please help

What have you tried?

[Bec]

i tried to install adobe flash player 10.1 on N900 maemo 5 of of some guide on the internet..

Link please?

[SD.]

Motorola Droid's Android 2.2 OTA update is being pushed to all Verizon subscribers now... The N900 is officially behind now.

http://www.engadget.com/2010/08/11/motorola-droid-android-2-2-froyo-ota-updates-are-go/

[marioaguado]

Motorola Droid's Android 2.2 OTA update is being pushed to all Verizon subscribers now... The N900 is officially behind now.

http://www.engadget.com/2010/08/11/motorola-droid-android-2-2-froyo-ota-updates-are-go/

This a Flash tread why you post this here?

[Bec]

There still is the fact that we can run froyo with flash 10.1 for a few weeks now.
Droid is still behind because it can't run maemo 5 :D

[fatalsaint]

This a Flash tread why you post this here?

He's likely pointing out the N900 is behind now because Droid's will now have Flash 10 in their browser.

Before Froyo was really used on anything the N900, even without Flash 10, was still in the lead as the only mobile device with built-in flash of any version.

Now we are outdated.

However, I think the Nexus One has been able to upgrade to Froyo for a while now.. so.. I don't think the Droid is the first to get it, nor the first to make us outdated.

[alexseif]

I downloaded the tar.gz from adobe's website
and i replaced the libflashplayer.so file

I'm sorry I don't have the link to the guide anymore, but it made sense @ the time, I didn't know that nokia constrained the flash plugin to its support only!!

Would, uninstalling maemo 5 and reinstalling it again help?

[nax3000]

i just turn phone off and boot into nitdroid and can watch flash10 vids all night long no problem, then when i want to use maemo i turn phone off and boot maemo,
personally i think nokia did a good job building a phone capable of doing that! (along with all the community devs who also made it possible!)
n900 is an awesome device, nuff said

Flash 10.1 now works in NITDroid? Really? Last time I heard it crashed the browser/didn't work so good. Does it run faster than the maemo5 9.4 version?

[gerbick]

Droid has a 550mhz processor and it still got Flash 10.1 before Maemo 5... I think that's his point @marioaguado

[James_Littler]

I downloaded the tar.gz from adobe's website
and i replaced the libflashplayer.so file

I'm sorry I don't have the link to the guide any more, but it made sense @ the time, I didn't know that nokia constrained the flash plugin to its support only!!

Would, uninstalling maemo 5 and reinstalling it again help?

Flashing would sort it out but it's a bit ott.

I'm uploading my libflashplayer.so to a website and I'll give you the link when it's done.
You can then just download it and transfer it to '/usr/lib/browser/plugins/' overwriting your old one and you should be good to go.

There isn't a 10.1 flash player compiled for ARM architecture yet so no alternative libflashplayer.so to use.

The only way around it is to install 'Tweak flash version' which changes the versioning in binary so it tricks the browser into thinking 10.1 is installed. This of course will only play flash 9.4 content in the 10.1 container, it wont be able to play any swf's that really need 10.1.

EDIT:
libflashplayer.so for PR1.2 is here:
www.ats-heritage.co.uk/downloads/libflashplayer.zip

[alexseif]

No I'm sorry I don't have the link anymore,
This is what i did though
I downloaded flash tar.gz from adobe, extracted the files and replaced the libflashplayer.so in .mozilla/plugins

would uninstalling than installing maemo 5 help??

[James_Littler]

No need to double post!

[alexseif]

Thanx a million, sorry couldn't find the post previously, thought something was wrong, I will get back to you when I try

[James_Littler]

Do it quick as I'll have to remove that link soon, it's my company website, and by that I mean a company I work for!

[NvyUs]

the flash port to ios4 is **** it cant even do youtube it does ads though if you like them.
to be fair it is being called a beta so best to wait for future.
if nokia are scared of peformance issues with flash 10.1 on the N900 then why not just release a downloadable beta like on android so ppl have the option to upgrade and test, just leave it out of firmware so its not forced on people.

[Frappacino]

nokia doesnt give a **** about N900 users mate

they are focused oin meego only and n900 users are a small group that do not matter

if u NEED flash 10 then SELL your n900 get a PROPER driod phone and forget about hacks and community ports cause by the time that happens flash 11 would probably be here

[leetut]

Flash 10.1 now works in NITDroid? Really? Last time I heard it crashed the browser/didn't work so good. Does it run faster than the maemo5 9.4 version?

video quality is perfect on vimeo.com
and as for battery drain, everything on my phone drains the battery!

[gabby131]

video quality is perfect on vimeo.com
and as for battery drain, everything on my phone drains the battery!

now i need to multi-boot!!!! NOW!!!!!!! the Dummy way!!!!

[monkeyman]

An email to NokiaUSA:

I am looking for a new cellular phone to replace my current Apple iPhone. Your Nokia N900 seems like the perfect option except for the lack of Adobe Flash 10.1 support. Without this software I cannot use the Nokia N900 to access a growing number of websites which require Flash 10.1. Should you add support for Adobe Flash 10.1 soon I will gladly purchase a Nokia N900 but without this software I cannot willingly purchase a phone which will limit my ability to access information (websites) on the internet.

Sincerely,
David Wash

- Seeing my later posts it becomes clear that I purchased the N900 anyhow as a result of finding the flash editing software "Tweak Flash" here on Maemo.org. We would still be better served by a Flash Player update from Nokia and Adobe.

[digital909]

Had my nose rubbed in it over morning coffee:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-10947784

:(

[XenGi]

sry, but i can't understand people who choose their mobile devices by the ability to play flash videos. :confused:

ok, watching videos on youtube is very funny, interesting and so on, but when i buy a mobile device i want a device with good hardware and a big community. so when i have this i get help and i get community apps everywhere and so on.

on my list what my mobile device should be able to do out of the box, flash is not in the top 10. there are things like wlan, bluetooth, full keyboard, linux powered os, mozilla based browser maybe fennec, tethering support, and many more things that i wanna do the whole day and that is important for me.

flash is important when it gets to surf the web. but for real surfing i have a pc or notebook with a big screen. do you guys who complains about flash support really enjoy surfing the web with a 5 inch display and a super small sized keyboard?

so when the n900 has flash 9.4 it's ok. i mean youtube works, most other things work too and when i fake my flash version to 10 many more things work. i watch youtube videos 5 or 15mins a day with this small screen and for that small amount of time this solution is good enough.

so i can wait for flash 10.1. it's ok when i only have flash 9.4.

just my opinion about flash and mobile devices.

[attila77]

Had my nose rubbed in it over morning coffee:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-10947784

:(

I find it interesting though that the focal point was watching *videos*. That particular aspect is the simplest to replace with an alternative solution (and a browser playing back accelerated video through HTML is not science fiction on the N900 either). Also, I found it surprisingly choppy even when the lag caused by orientation changes cleared - it was almost on par with an overclocked N900. The real problem are the sites that rely on Flash for navigation or where the whole site is packed in one giant flash...

[crown77]

well since the n900 doesnt have a real good Phone Software and everybody is calling it more a tablet than a mobile Phone what else is more important then as to surf and watch all those little flash Animations and Videos?

Nearly every Site , Forum and so one is useing Flash today. So maybe thats why it is so imporant for the N900 .. its at the Moment the best Argument for it byside the Multitasking if this is falling what shall all the N900 Fanboys say to us so called Trolls..

[Andrew_b]

Had my nose rubbed in it over morning coffee:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-10947784

:(

OMG! Android has invented full web browsing INCLUDING Flash Video on a mobile phone. And look! You can't do that on an iPhone, only on two of the very latest Android devices. Well done BBC, you are so very clever for discovering this latest development in mobile technology.:(

Nokia are so stupid that even if they did see this report, they wouldn't link it with their foolish tardiness in getting Flash 10.1 out on Maemo 5.:mad:

[sophocha]

Nokia, you`ve marketed the N900 as an internet tablet (with full web experience)....so the best thing you can do is GIVE ME MY F%%^& FLASH 10.1 SUPPORT NOW!.....or else you are a lying company and I don`t buy future phones from liars!

[jnack95]

Nokia, you`ve marketed the N900 as an internet tablet (with full web experience)....so the best thing you can do is GIVE ME MY F%%^& FLASH 10.1 SUPPORT NOW!.....or else you are a lying company and I don`t buy future phones from liars!

Hey, how about buying my future house...or my future car? I'll give you a great deal....

[Zekahz]

nevermind........

[willi_iam]

Latest rumor I heard was that meego.com will be completely converted to Flash 10.1 in the near future...
Just to prevent N900 owners from bashing Nokia...

... or to force them to buy a meego-device to continue their crusade against Nokia...


:D

[Jack6428]

Latest rumor I heard was that meego.com will be completely converted to Flash 10.1 in the near future...
Just to prevent N900 owners from bashing Nokia...

... or to force them to buy a meego-device to continue their crusade against Nokia...


:D

Don't even try to be serious with this crap...LOL

[willi_iam]

While reading this thread once in a while:
beeing serious is one of the last things coming to my mind ;)

[longcat]

flash 10 will be released for nokia n900 in next update, i came from future and i checked it on old forums before comming hehe :p

[roguespy0]

I don't see flash 10.1 coming to the n900, officially. If you want flash ten on a mobile, than wait for meego or buy an android phone. Nokia is not going to release flash ten on n900, they really messed up with the n900, great device, nokia its ready to move on to n8 or meego.

[ptpoul]

Am I the only one not being able to play flash videos embedded in facebook with mico b? It asks me to update..

[James_Littler]

Am I the only one not being able to play flash videos embedded in facebook with mico b? It asks me to update..

Look for 'Flash Version Tweak' in extras-devel.

[attila77]

Look for 'Flash Version Tweak' in extras-devel.

In other news - that little tool is available to everybody via Extras proper starting today.

[xuggs]

Is it possible to make a flash content full screen like games, videos by tapping on them? (like android for e.g.) Is this a possibility by creating an extension in microb or a plugin?

[Bec]

Try flash launcher for that.

[tabris]

Just a guess but maybe nokia just wanna wait until flash is out of beta. As far as i know until today flash 10.1 was beta even on android.

[geohsia]

I'm hoping Firefox pulls a rabbit out of the hat, supports 10.1 and also runs just as fast as microbrowser!

[danramos]

What I wanna know is...will Flash 10.2 come to the N900? Especially if there's HUGE exploits found in 10.1. You KNOW all the other, newer, cooler handsets will get it! ;)

[maxximuscool]

I'm planing to ditch Nokia for an Apple to bite. I don't care about Openness anymore. Since iphone can always Jailbreak and be as open as I want it to be. But the problem here is the PRICE!! And colour! lol.

I want the White Iphone because the problem is surrounded the black Iphone. Got that one another banned iphone commercial

[Bec]

What I wanna know is...will Flash 10.2 come to the N900? Especially if there's HUGE exploits found in 10.1. You KNOW all the other, newer, cooler handsets will get it! ;)

N900 is a lost cause. All I can hope for is nokia supporting their devices from Meego on like Apple and Android do.

[danramos]

N900 is a lost cause. All I can hope for is nokia supporting their devices from Meego on like Apple and Android do.

Don't say that too loud. As the penguins in Madagascar say, "Just smile and wave, boys. Smile and wave."

[Bec]

Yup, exactly what nokia is doing...

[BaKSo]

since today N900 lose it capabilities to open facebook attached video, i think they now need flash 10+.

there are also slim probability that the flash player on N900 will ever be updated.

I fear that in the near future every website will require higher flash player which makes our N900 go the grave...

[Bec]

D'uh, not quite...
There still is MeeGo with community support if that does it for you...

Bit misinformed on the matter for a greeter I''d say...

[jflatt]

N900 is a lost cause. All I can hope for is nokia supporting their devices from Meego on like Apple and Android do.
Is this a joke? Apple supporting their devices? You do know the iPhone 2G was dropped like a hot rock right? The 3G got an iOS 4.0 upgrade with no features in it, makes the phone slow as mud, and is still not fixed.

[H3llb0und]

Is this a joke? Apple supporting their devices? You do know the iPhone 2G was dropped like a hot rock right? The 3G got an iOS 4.0 upgrade with no features in it, makes the phone slow as mud, and is still not fixed.

I usually criticise Apple every chance I get, but dropping support for a 3+ year old device is not even in the same league as Nokia dropping support for a <1 year device...

The 3G is around 2 years old, and good or bad, fast or slow it still got an OS upgrade.

We have an awesome device that was dropped like a piece of s***!

[Bec]

Is this a joke? Apple supporting their devices? You do know the iPhone 2G was dropped like a hot rock right? The 3G got an iOS 4.0 upgrade with no features in it, makes the phone slow as mud, and is still not fixed.


Considering the primitive state of the iOS it's probably much easier to offer upgrades.

But there's no excuse for dropping N900 like a rock. MeeGO is Maemo 6 and nokia should provide the update same as 3GS got the latest OS and all androids are updated from version 1 to 2.

No excuse.

What hurts more is the features and the UI of maemo 5 (which nokia will wrongly redesign) that surpass both iOS and android by a long shot.
Simply the taping outside the focused area to go back and the multitasking dashboard put between desktop and main menu are brilliant!
I don't think anyone will ever achieve such integrated and easy to use multitasking...

[danramos]

Also... and I can't emphasize this enough.. LESS THAN ONE YEAR.

I mean, I had already seen this before with the N810WE coming out not long before the N900 and BAM... it got dropped not long after release. Seems to keep happening over and over with Nokia, is all.

[Bec]

It's easy to criticize though without having used one ;)

I only hope MeeGo will bring major version updates and won't stay too far from the principles in Maemo5.

[xuggs]

Yea it's a shame < 1 year and it hurts even more for people who bought it just 3 months ago.. like me.

I think I am going to walk right into the Nokia HQ here and make a mockery of them.

[cmsjkung]

Yea it's a shame < 1 year and it hurts even more for people who bought it just 3 months ago.. like me.

I think I am going to walk right into the Nokia HQ here and make a mockery of them.

Agreed, because N900 is just released in many countries only for a few months....

I bought N900 01/05/2010 in HK (first day release in HK).... so disappointed with it, If Nokia provide 30 days money back (likes iPhone 4), then I get my money without any consideration..

[iDont]

I've found a very interesting project today: JITB.

As the thread title says, it is a Java based flash player. According to the blog post, it currently renders a subset of ActionScript at almost native Java speed.

Basically, the goal of this project allows all java-supporting devices (phones, desktops, etc) to run flash files. They even explicitly mention Android as a target for this project.

Please note this project is far from finished; the whole flash API has yet to be implemented, so don't get all overexcited yes ;)

Hopefully this will make our already superb Maemo devices even better :)

Source: http://blog.joa-ebert.com/2010/08/19/introducing-jitb/

[jaimex2]

What hurts more is the features and the UI of maemo 5 (which nokia will wrongly redesign) that surpass both iOS and android by a long shot.

Exactly :(

I miss Maemo when using iPhone and Android, its such a shame Nokia don't know what they have.

[rebhana]

fb videos work fine for me at full speeds but i hardly use fb anyways. Just google streetview is much needed.

I just noticed that google streetview can still be accessed on the N900 - through twaelti's maemaps web app (http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=33645)!

Just put the red dot on the desired located and press "V". Then scroll down! :D

EDIT: Wow, even works with locally stored maemaps.html and corresponding scripts!

[arora.rohan]

http://thenokiaguide.com/2010/08/24/flash-10-1-not-coming-to-the-n900/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+TheNokiaGuide+(The+Nokia+Guide)

is this right ? =[

[marcsony]

Bummer o well on with life lol cheers anyway.

[Ykho]

just what is nokia thinking?!?!?

[Uxi]

it might not come officially, but will probably come one way or another...

[optimistprime]

No, probably wont arrive. ALREADY a massive thread on the topic...

[sjgadsby]

The thread "Flash 10.1 not Coming?" (5 posts) has been merged into this thread.

[handra_bta]

just download "Tweak Flash plugin Version" from maemo....install the app.... & open app tweak flash player just U clik change.......... adobe flash player 10.1 now on Your N900...... GOOD LUCK

[Ykho]

you dont think saying the same thing 6 times is a bit repetitive...

[handra_bta]

you dont think saying the same thing 6 times is a bit repetitive...

have you try It.....?

[Pigro]

you dont think saying the same thing 6 times is a bit repetitive...

indeed - particularly as the cut & paste text in each of the 6 posts is inaccurate - tweak flash version is NOT Flash 10.1 on your N900 (as has been stated many times here). Where is the 'despair' emoticon?

[stickymick]

have you try It.....?

No thanks, we'd get banned for spamming. :D

[Ykho]

indeed - particularly as the cut & paste text in each of the 6 posts is inaccurate - tweak flash version is NOT Flash 10.1 on your N900 (as has been stated many times here). Where is the 'despair' emoticon?

it's been posted a 7th time:D

[stickymick]

Where is the 'despair' emoticon?

Here it is: http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2010/083/d/4/despair_emoticon_by_lythre_pixeling.gif

[sjgadsby]

you dont think saying the same thing 6 times is a bit repetitive...

I do. handra_bta, I've deleted your duplicate posts. Do not create more.

[jjx]

I've found a very interesting project today: JITB.

As the thread title says, it is a Java based flash player. According to the blog post, it currently renders a subset of ActionScript at almost native Java speed.

Basically, the goal of this project allows all java-supporting devices (phones, desktops, etc) to run flash files. They even explicitly mention Android as a target for this project.

Please note this project is far from finished; the whole flash API has yet to be implemented, so don't get all overexcited yes ;)

Interesting & good idea. Can it be compiled to native code? (as the GNU GCJ is able to compile Java to native code).

Even with good Java performance it will be difficult or impossible to get good Flash 10-compatible video performance without DSP drivers for the appropriate set of codecs.

Now that Gecko, Webkit etc. look like getting javascript OpenGL in the form of WebGL, I wonder if implementing Flash in Javascript isn't the way forward ;)

The GNU Gnash project has been attempting to catch up with Flash for years, as have the predecessors to Gnash, and it still has a long way to go.

So I won't hold my breath waiting for JITB to catch up.

[senote]

This is just another reason why I will be leaving Nokia for something running Android or WinMo7, hell the way Nokia have handled the N900 I'd switch to an iPhone before I went for another Nokia. For too long Nokia have been relying on this huge market share they had to keep them on top, they have grown complacent and times have changed, Nokia are not changing with them. They can buy who and what they like it will not save them. I love my N900 really I do but if I could turn back the clock I would and get something different.

[nephridium]

I've asked it before, in another thread, but didn't get a real answer so I'll ask again here:

Could someone give me a list of flash websites that actually *require* flash 10 to run (as in not working after setting Flash version to 10 using this tool: http://www.nokian900applications.com/tweak-flash-plugin-version-for-nokia-n900/ )?

The only app I know of that I can't use on my N900 is street view, and I can live with that. So I don't get what all the fuzz is about. (On the contrary I'm actually positively surprised as to how stable flash runs on the N900.) Can someone enlighten me?

[sirpaul]

i think the main fear is, that there will be used more and more flash 10.1 in future and those sites (when using new features) won't work even with a tweaked version. (just imagine the trouble youtube only allowing flash 10.1)

AND there is a big disappointment about nokia itself and the "support" for the n900

(yes i'm not native speaker :D )

[nephridium]

So, to get this straight: there is actually no problem right now. Some people here are riled up because of potential future incompatibility issues??

And this was me thinking I'm missing out on some incredible Flash 10 super apps I could be using on my workstation ;)

BTW, anyone posted this link yet of Flash 10.1 final running on the N900 (NITDroid): http://zomgitscj.com/2010/08/24/maemo-nitdroid-adobe-flash-player-final-released/

[H3llb0und]

Could not find it now, but yes

[SD.]

So, to get this straight: there is actually no problem right now. Some people here are riled up because of potential future incompatibility issues??

And this was me thinking I'm missing out on some incredible Flash 10 super apps I could be using on my workstation ;)

Most likely large sites like YouTube will be using Flash 10.1 specific features (http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=772835#post772835) in the near future...

[geneven]

D'uh, not quite...
There still is MeeGo with community support if that does it for you...

Bit misinformed on the matter for a greeter I''d say...

Yes, in other words, Nokia in effect will be blackmailing us to move to MeeGo for our N900s to stay relevant.

[imperiallight]

Its not only the n900, the palm pre users have been messed about as well.

[stickymick]

But unless there's a specific MeeGo version, i.e Flash 10+ will be upgradeable as a separate entity from the O/S as a plug-in, we're still at the whim of Nokia to release timely updates, or support MeeGo for more than 8 months.

[attila77]

It is separately updateable since forever. It's just that there is nothing to upgrade to, Maemo, MeeGo, generic ARM, you name it.

FWIW Flash 10+ for MeeGo is not done by neither Adobe nor Nokia, but by a 3rd party (Movial).

[andyph666]

I have a question. If I install say ubuntu natively onto the n900, will flash 10.1 work okay? Can it even be installed?

[SD.]

I have a question. If I install say ubuntu natively onto the n900, will flash 10.1 work okay? Can it even be installed?

The Android port is currently the only 10.1 version available for devices with ARM cpus.

[jalyst]

Yes, in other words, Nokia in effect will be blackmailing us to move to MeeGo for our N900s to stay relevant.

Why would you characterise it as that?
You make it sound as though meego's going to be hideous compared to maemo.

Have you used both extensively yet? (no one except for core devs can really say they have)
By all accounts meego's going to have all the great characteristics of maemo + some extra stuff.

[rebhana]

I've asked it before, in another thread, but didn't get a real answer so I'll ask again here:

Could someone give me a list of flash websites that actually *require* flash 10 to run (as in not working after setting Flash version to 10 using this tool: http://www.nokian900applications.com/tweak-flash-plugin-version-for-nokia-n900/ )?

The only app I know of that I can't use on my N900 is street view, and I can live with that. So I don't get what all the fuzz is about. (On the contrary I'm actually positively surprised as to how stable flash runs on the N900.) Can someone enlighten me?

As I noted just a few posts earlier (http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=796106&postcount=1178), google street view is fully functional on the N900 with maemaps.

[cmsjkung]

Just tried the maemaps on N900, I think it still need to do more improvements before it can be compared with google map applications on android or IPhone.....

[rebhana]

Just tried the maemaps on N900, I think it still need to do more improvements before it can be compared with google map applications on android or IPhone.....

It's just a web application, but I find it infinitely better than google maps on microB. And streetview works exactly as it should once you entered it. So flash 10 seems only required for the interface between standard google map and streetview.

[devu]

Despite of discussion going on here I finally bought some SD card and installed NITDroid to check flash 10.1 on N900.

Whole installation process was very smooth with new dj_steve toys :). Thanks for that guys!

As soon as I could I've hit my testing flash builds. I was in shock.
Flash 10.1 on NITDroid not GPU drivers as we know, half ported on device that wasn't intent to have Android at all, with some bottlenecks gave me this result.

50000 iterations drawing some boring squares

NITDroid / N900 /All overkills
using old drawing API (FLASH 9) 370ms
using (flash 10+) drawing API 17ms

my old good PC AMD 3200+ 2GB RAM basic GPU
using old drawing API (FLASH 9) 130ms
using (flash 10+) drawing API 17ms

Give me only one reason why as Flash developer should keep developing in flash 9 especially for mobile web based apps. Then I will give you around 50 why I should. And all will be for good for customer.

Transition in Flash development will take a while but its required both. Technology / hardware support, and content needs to be updated.
It will not happen one magic day but for sure will happen. Every single production taking place considering mobile market since access to Android market is lucrative opportunity that cannot be missed.

Lack of Flash 10.1 on Maemo is huge drawback for Nokia. They just missed big point and potential. Doesn't matter what you think about flash or all crappy pseudo devs that working on bad flash reputation 24/7. Even they can succeeds because at the end of the day the right moment is important. To get content that everyone is talking about. Even if you are not enjoying it at least you have seen it. That's what is matter in today's world.

"I wont here and now."

Another one thing is Flash dev community is big, sharing a lot of stuff in Open Source manner. It is potential group of ppl that can provide tones of apps even you are ignorant to flash and don;t know to many or just don't need it. Trust me with AIR on n900 I would be able to reproduce most of existing apps in AS3, much quicker, looks nicer and in some cases will be faster and less processor hog like sometimes unfortunately happening here.

Big thanks to you dj_steve once again for NITDROID port. it is not ideal but just for Flash development purposes good enough to at least check how it works and feels on it. Shame ... since Memo OS is much better and polished OS IMHO. Flash 10.1 and AIR could make it complete for many ppl here I believe.

I am keep running some performance tests and thinking about abandon flaemo flash 9 support because it requires 2x more time and effort to keep all this compatibility issues on track. And still the last question remains. Is it worth it? Flash 9 content It's a way to slow. People here seems to be happy with Flash 9 basically don't need anything more from flash or just don't using it at all. Those who wont more and keep up with current version will find the other way anyway...

If somebody here is interesting in flash development for mobile devices and need some help or want to help please drop me an email.

All the best folks :)

[Leon4]

Just one word for you NOKIA:
**** YOU for treating us like piece of carp...END :@

[cmsjkung]

Forget about it... I am selling my N900 now....

[Frappacino]

Forget about it... I am selling my N900 now....

do what makes u happy.

but a bit late man - resale value of n900 has plummeted - and see the recent trade in offer from nokia where u can get 280$ off a n900 by just trading in any work nokia phone.

[extendedping]

really pretty sad the way Nokia abandoned the device. I paid $345 used but my heart goes out to those who bought it new for top dollar. shame on nokia. If it was not for guys like quole who brought free debian or martink who is doing a good job of updating modrana I think I would be in the market for an android (or an sd card if nitdroid ever becomes fully functiona)l.

It's amazing how some big companies really just act like big companies while (well not most but some) still retain a hint of the customer care that they had when they were smaller. Nokia for sure falls into the former category.

[cmsjkung]

N900 is a new Nokia model released only 4 months in Hong Kong, Twain, and China etc.... but just a few month after, it become a two years old model mobile phone from Nokia....

Many live tv web sites require flash player 10.x now in Hong Kong and China etc, and the twist flash app can not solve the problem, that why I am selling my N900....

[Deaconclgi]

really pretty sad the way Nokia abandoned the device. I paid $345 used but my heart goes out to those who bought it new for top dollar. shame on nokia. If it was not for guys like quole who brought free debian or martink who is doing a good job of updating modrana I think I would be in the market for an android (or an sd card if nitdroid ever becomes fully functiona)l.

It's amazing how some big companies really just act like big companies while (well not most but some) still retain a hint of the customer care that they had when they were smaller. Nokia for sure falls into the former category.

If I remember correctly, I paid about $561 for my N900 and I don't regret it. Just like I paid $529 for my N82 a few years ago. I got the use out of it that I expected to get at the time of purchase and everything else has been extra bonuses or could have beens. The N900 still meets my needs that caused me to buy it in the first place.

Sure, I would like newer features and to keep up with the current trends but that is what newer devices are for. I will be retireing my N82 in favor of an N8 and eventually (2011 or later) retireing my N900 for a Meego device.

[DrSteve]

My phone does exactly what I bought it to do, and I think it was well worth the $500 I paid for it. I don't have to haul my notebook around anymore, and I've got Debian apps whenever I want them (thanks qole!). I'm a little hesitant about the microplug issue and Nokia's behavior (10.1, repairs, etc.) is often ... puzzling, but I've seen worse.

[mrover]

http://dailymobile.se/2009/10/26/flash-player-10-1-running-on-nokia-n900/

Any details?

[gerbick]

N900 is a new Nokia model released only 4 months in Hong Kong, Twain, and China etc.... but just a few month after, it become a two years old model mobile phone from Nokia....

Many live tv web sites require flash player 10.x now in Hong Kong and China etc, and the twist flash app can not solve the problem, that why I am selling my N900....

I presume that many others in HK, China and India will repeat this sentiment very soon. I mean, it was just sold there recently and already lacks the support that many phones around it, released much earlier enjoy...

[Laughing Man]

I'm surprised Nokia even sold it there given their intentions to move to Meego. But then again it is Nokia. >.>

[gerbick]

I'm surprised Nokia even sold it there given their intentions to move to Meego. But then again it is Nokia.

I'm not surprised one bit. Not now, not ever again.

[Rushmore]

Despite of discussion going on here I finally bought some SD card and installed NITDroid to check flash 10.1 on N900.

Whole installation process was very smooth with new dj_steve toys :). Thanks for that guys!

As soon as I could I've hit my testing flash builds. I was in shock.
Flash 10.1 on NITDroid not GPU drivers as we know, half ported on device that wasn't intent to have Android at all, with some bottlenecks gave me this result.

50000 iterations drawing some boring squares

NITDroid / N900 /All overkills
using old drawing API (FLASH 9) 370ms
using (flash 10+) drawing API 17ms

my old good PC AMD 3200+ 2GB RAM basic GPU
using old drawing API (FLASH 9) 130ms
using (flash 10+) drawing API 17ms

Give me only one reason why as Flash developer should keep developing in flash 9 especially for mobile web based apps. Then I will give you around 50 why I should. And all will be for good for customer.

Transition in Flash development will take a while but its required both. Technology / hardware support, and content needs to be updated.
It will not happen one magic day but for sure will happen. Every single production taking place considering mobile market since access to Android market is lucrative opportunity that cannot be missed.

Lack of Flash 10.1 on Maemo is huge drawback for Nokia. They just missed big point and potential. Doesn't matter what you think about flash or all crappy pseudo devs that working on bad flash reputation 24/7. Even they can succeeds because at the end of the day the right moment is important. To get content that everyone is talking about. Even if you are not enjoying it at least you have seen it. That's what is matter in today's world.

"I wont here and now."

Another one thing is Flash dev community is big, sharing a lot of stuff in Open Source manner. It is potential group of ppl that can provide tones of apps even you are ignorant to flash and don;t know to many or just don't need it. Trust me with AIR on n900 I would be able to reproduce most of existing apps in AS3, much quicker, looks nicer and in some cases will be faster and less processor hog like sometimes unfortunately happening here.

Big thanks to you dj_steve once again for NITDROID port. it is not ideal but just for Flash development purposes good enough to at least check how it works and feels on it. Shame ... since Memo OS is much better and polished OS IMHO. Flash 10.1 and AIR could make it complete for many ppl here I believe.

I am keep running some performance tests and thinking about abandon flaemo flash 9 support because it requires 2x more time and effort to keep all this compatibility issues on track. And still the last question remains. Is it worth it? Flash 9 content It's a way to slow. People here seems to be happy with Flash 9 basically don't need anything more from flash or just don't using it at all. Those who wont more and keep up with current version will find the other way anyway...

If somebody here is interesting in flash development for mobile devices and need some help or want to help please drop me an email.

All the best folks :)

Flash 10.1 final and Froyo play content on the Incredible FAR better than I thought possible, and I am a picky SOB.

N900 would rock, but not likely to ever happen.

[flailingmonkey]

If you check out the bugzilla for MeeGo, you will find that the WebKit based Fennec browser that is being incorporated already has Flash 10.1 in it. I am surprised no one has been investigating porting MeeGo flash 10.1 to Maemo 5 yet. Maybe they are more interested in throwing fits here at tmo?

[Laughing Man]

If you check out the bugzilla for MeeGo, you will find that the WebKit based Fennec browser that is being incorporated already has Flash 10.1 in it. I am surprised no one has been investigating porting MeeGo flash 10.1 to Maemo 5 yet. Maybe they are more interested in throwing fits here at tmo?

It doesn't exist in the vanilla Meego build yet. But after vanilla Meego is released (if Flash ships with it at all) then I'm sure people would look at it.

But just to point out, it's possible Nokia might just ship Flash 10.1 with Meego-Harmattan not for vanilla Meego due to licensing.

[gerbick]

If you check out the bugzilla for MeeGo, you will find that the WebKit based Fennec browser that is being incorporated already has Flash 10.1 in it. I am surprised no one has been investigating porting MeeGo flash 10.1 to Maemo 5 yet. Maybe they are more interested in throwing fits here at tmo?

It's actually been talked about. And it's a very good thing; however nobody knows exactly how well it will/will not work yet. Being worked on versus already something to use/play with are two different things.

[monkeyman]

In the United States the laws were changed in July by Congress to allow owners of any device to add any software they please without having to go through the manufacturer of their device (was aimed at Apple) and without fear of voiding the device warrantee. This means that in the USA at least, Adobe no longer has an excuse for not releasing Flash 10.1 to N900/Maemo 5 owners.

[olighak]

In the United States the laws were changed in July by Congress to allow owners of any device to add any software they please without having to go through the manufacturer of their device (was aimed at Apple) and without fear of voiding the device warrantee. This means that in the USA at least, Adobe no longer has an excuse for not releasing Flash 10.1 to N900/Maemo 5 owners.

Yes they do. It's called larger business interests.

[somedude]

In the United States the laws were changed in July by Congress to allow owners of any device to add any software they please without having to go through the manufacturer of their device (was aimed at Apple) and without fear of voiding the device warrantee. This means that in the USA at least, Adobe no longer has an excuse for not releasing Flash 10.1 to N900/Maemo 5 owners.

So I can put the planet tracking software used by NASA on my any device because I own the device and it would please me and NASA has to provide the software to me because that would please me?

[geohsia]

In the United States the laws were changed in July by Congress to allow owners of any device to add any software they please without having to go through the manufacturer of their device (was aimed at Apple) and without fear of voiding the device warrantee. This means that in the USA at least, Adobe no longer has an excuse for not releasing Flash 10.1 to N900/Maemo 5 owners.

Not exactly. You're speaking of Jailbreak. If someone Jailbreaks a phone and adds Flash and it doesn't work, Apple is within its rights to ask you to restore it to base iOS for support. It doesn't mean they have to support broken code they don't have access to and don't ever want to touch.

That aside, the problem here isn't Adobe!!!! Adobe doesn't write the code for Maemo. They can, but the reponsibility here is Nokia. If Maemo was as popular as iOS then Adobe might put in the effort, but since Nokia killed Maemo, it is up to Nokia now to provide support.

So you're barking up the wrong tree! Nokia got us into this mess and only Nokia can get us out. And by the way, Adobe never had any restriction on the Maemo platform before July or after.

[geohsia]

If you check out the bugzilla for MeeGo, you will find that the WebKit based Fennec browser that is being incorporated already has Flash 10.1 in it. I am surprised no one has been investigating porting MeeGo flash 10.1 to Maemo 5 yet. Maybe they are more interested in throwing fits here at tmo?

Wait. Hold up!

Fennec is Firefox for Mobile which is Mozilla, which I guess is what, Gecko? As far as I know there is no Webkit based Fennec.

When MeeGo gets Flash that would be the natural choice to port over to Maemo.

[monkeyman]

So not only is Nokia trying to kill off the idea of Flash 10.1 for the N900 so are we, somedude and olighak? Let us not make excuses for Nokia or Adobe.

I went to the Adobe Flash download page and saw 5 different version of Flash 10.1 for Linux. It wouldn't take much for Adobe to port it over to Maemo.

I don't like having to visit 5 or more websites (OK... Sometimes it's only 1) to try and find some information which would have been available to me if I wasn't stopped by a lack of Flash 10.1 in my device. I went through the same thing (but much worse) with my previous phone (iPhone 1) and moved to the N900 to avoid it. Adobe can (more easily than anyone) and should port over one of their Linux versions of Flash 10.1 to the N900. Not doing so forces forces people to find (and become used to) other ways of accessing the information they need, reducing the need for Flash at all.

[somedude]

So not only is Nokia trying to kill off the idea of Flash 10.1 for the N900 so are we, somedude and olighak? Let us not make excuses for Nokia or Adobe.

I went to the Adobe Flash download page and saw 5 different version of Flash 10.1 for Linux. It wouldn't take much for Adobe to port it over to Maemo.

I don't like having to visit 5 or more websites (OK... Sometimes it's only 1) to try and find some information which would have been available to me if I wasn't stopped by a lack of Flash 10.1 in my device. I went through the same thing (but much worse) with my previous phone (iPhone 1) and moved to the N900 to avoid it. Adobe can (more easily than anyone) and should port over one of their Linux versions of Flash 10.1 to the N900. Not doing so forces forces people to find (and become used to) other ways of accessing the information they need, reducing the need for Flash at all.

I was not taking for or against any company i was just giving an example. how the business is carried somethings are just intellectual property that no one can get even if the law says so because another law would overrite it. and yes there are some linux version of flash because adobe saw a potential market there and which they have not seen or realized for maemo, and any law cannot make any company make a product for specific market. same as i have a car and i want to put the chinese petroleum on my car but i live in usa, not necessarily chinese petroleum has to provide me there petrol because it is not feasible for their business.

[monkeyman]

somedude, I never suggested that the changed law (not a new law) forces Adobe to port or write the software, simply that Adobe cannot claim that it is the full responsibility of Nokia to produce the Adobe Flash software for Adobe. Adobe has the code they need (they created Flash 9.4 for the N900, they have it) and could, in a matter of hours or days, port one of their existing Linux versions to the N900, or better yet clean up and release the version they displayed with the N900 in the video (if it was 10.1 as they claimed).

[geohsia]

somedude, I never suggested that the changed law (not a new law) forces Adobe to port or write the software, simply that Adobe cannot claim that it is the full responsibility of Nokia to produce the Adobe Flash software for Adobe. Adobe has the code they need (they created Flash 9.4 for the N900, they have it) and could, in a matter of hours or days, port one of their existing Linux versions to the N900, or better yet clean up and release the version they displayed with the N900 in the video (if it was 10.1 as they claimed).

There's porting and there's optimizing and support. If it was only that easy. The issue is whether or not it's worth Adobe's time. If Nokia is barely supporting Maemo, why should Adobe?

[somedude]

somedude, I never suggested that the changed law (not a new law) forces Adobe to port or write the software, simply that Adobe cannot claim that it is the full responsibility of Nokia to produce the Adobe Flash software for Adobe. Adobe has the code they need (they created Flash 9.4 for the N900, they have it) and could, in a matter of hours or days, port one of their existing Linux versions to the N900, or better yet clean up and release the version they displayed with the N900 in the video (if it was 10.1 as they claimed).

if i own Adobe why would i use up my resources for a small market? while at the same time with same resources i can target a larger market segment resulting more profit.
thats the exact thinking of adobe may-be? or there really is something that adobe needs from Nokia to port the 10.1 because Nokia has that part locked down. (similar reason why no flasf for iPhone because of hardware and software lockdown?)


ps: i do not own Adobe or work for them.

[monkeyman]

Adobe already charges $39 for support. They would profit from providing support for a Flash 10.1 version for N900.
N900 users are as "Techie" as techie can get. If we are forced to create effective ways around the need for Flash then that will trickle down to other devices. If you've grown used to a IU you tend to stick with it, so you would want the same "effective ways around the need for Flash" in your other devices. That (along with Apple) helps kill off Flash.

Adobe created Flash 9.4 for Maemo 5. They have the code they need and with any of the Linux versions they have already created could easily produce a Maemo 5 version of Flash 10.1 for the N900. Heck, to shut us up they could simply take Flash 9.4 and make a few small changes, have it show as 10.1 and keep us from having to find other ways which don't require Adobe software to access information.

The market share of a device doesn't seem to mean much to Adobe when it comes to Flash. 64-Bit versions of Windows OS have been around for many years now but there is not now nor has there been a version of Flash for it (only the 32-bit Windows version). There is a Beta version of Flash 10.1 for Linux 64-bit though. If a broad audience were their concern, why wouldn't they create a Windows 64-bit Flash 10.1 before a Linux 64-bit? Very few people are currently using Linux 64 because of a serious lack of 64 bit device drivers for the OS.

[ear0wax]

Very few people are currently using Linux 64 because of a serious lack of 64 bit device drivers for the OS.

I have Never come across a missing (linux) driver for any of my x64 computers.

[monkeyman]

No Linux 64-Bit driver for my BD-RW, no Linux 64-Bit driver for three of my NIC's. At UMass Amherst the problem of a lack of drivers was found by most of us. I say "most" because some users have a combination of devices which are all covered, and others (like me) have a combination of devices of which nearly none are covered.

[geohsia]

I don't know how else to say this...

MAEMO IS DEAD!!! There is no Maemo 2.0. The future is MeeGo

Why support something that has been end of lifed and is barely on life support? Blame Nokia, not Adobe.

[attila77]

if i own Adobe why would i use up my resources for a small market? while at the same time with same resources i can target a larger market segment resulting more profit.

To save face as you used that market, no matter how small, to demonstrate the state of your technology, because your real targets were ridiculously unpresentable at the time (skip the N900 part of the infamous Kevin Lynch demo and look at what state the Android version was).

thats the exact thinking of adobe may-be? or there really is something that adobe needs from Nokia to port the 10.1 because Nokia has that part locked down. (similar reason why no flasf for iPhone because of hardware and software lockdown?)

They always say Flash is hardware independent and it falls back to software-based renderers/codecs. I just want a public ARM Linux build from them. I don't want them to care, know, or pretend they even heard about the N900. Just. publish. an. ARMv7. build. Seriously. I don't care about speed, I care about inaccessible content. Why don't they release an ARM build ? They released a specialized Android build so a generic one should be super-easy to do. Adobe's distribution model just plain sucks (regardless if Nokia is guilty or not of not pushing for an N900 release).

[Descalzo]

I don't know how else to say this...

MAEMO IS DEAD!!! There is no Maemo 2.0.

They called Maemo 2.0 OS2006.

There is no Maemo 6.0

[attila77]

Why support something that has been end of lifed and is barely on life support? Blame Nokia, not Adobe.

So what about Symbian ? BlackBerry ? Are those EOL-d and on life-support ? Just 'cause Adobe said Flash will be available to those too when Apple shut them out. Fast forward to today - Adobe resumes work on tools for iOS and these other OS-es (not to mention webOS and MeeGo) still don't have Flash done by Adobe. There is just one pair of pants they want to get into, everybody else is just collateral or a rebound affair.

[geohsia]

They called Maemo 2.0 OS2006.

There is no Maemo 6.0

Haha, of course. Brain hiccup. I'd blame that on Nokia too but can't think of anything clever.

[geohsia]

So what about Symbian ? BlackBerry ? Are those EOL-d and on life-support ? Just 'cause Adobe said Flash will be available to those too when Apple shut them out. Fast forward to today - Adobe resumes work on tools for iOS and these other OS-es (not to mention webOS and MeeGo) still don't have Flash done by Adobe. There is just one pair of pants they want to get into, everybody else is just collateral or a rebound affair.

I totally misread your reply. You're right. They only care about Apple. Apple is the market leader and right now they're the ones setting the trends. If your job was to make money for Adobe which platform would you choose? iOS or Symbian / Blackberry?

[attila77]

Then on my main developer conference I wouldn't demo a version of Flash that doesn't yet exist on a platform that I don't intend on supporting in any shape or form.

[geohsia]

Then on my main developer conference I wouldn't demo a version of Flash that doesn't yet exist on a platform that I don't intend on supporting in any shape or form.

True, but let's be fair. They aren't responsible for killing MAEMO. Maybe when they did the demo they thought it would live to a ripe old age. If Nokia isn't adding to MAEMO why would Adobe?

[allnameswereout]

Then on my main developer conference I wouldn't demo a version of Flash that doesn't yet exist on a platform that I don't intend on supporting in any shape or form.What pisses me off is that we don't even get security updates to software. A recent Flash vulnerability has been patched, and a new one is going to be patched within 2 weeks according to Adobe. Firefox and Gecko have received lots of patches. It isn't hard to backport these patches. Distributions like Debian do this. Linux users complain about the security of Microsoft Windows machines yet our very N900 running stock Maemo is vulnerable to remote vulnerabilities. Security by obscurity pur sang. I have noticed Nokia does similar to Symbian OS. Again, I am not asking about new features, I am demanding security and reliability updates to the official firmware because I believe I, as customer, am entitled to them until at least 2 years after my purchase. I'm going to contact my lawyer about this btw.

[jerra]

I haven't paid much attention to this but lately I have stumbled across more and more sites where the N900 flashplayer won't do.
So today I saw that the new E7 has a Flashlite player. According to Nokia this will play almost all Flash content. Could it be a possibility to have that version installed on the N900?
Really strange how Nokia can abandon N900 just like that.

[danramos]

What pisses me off is that we don't even get security updates to software. A recent Flash vulnerability has been patched, and a new one is going to be patched within 2 weeks according to Adobe. Firefox and Gecko have received lots of patches. It isn't hard to backport these patches. Distributions like Debian do this. Linux users complain about the security of Microsoft Windows machines yet our very N900 running stock Maemo is vulnerable to remote vulnerabilities. Security by obscurity pur sang. I have noticed Nokia does similar to Symbian OS. Again, I am not asking about new features, I am demanding security and reliability updates to the official firmware because I believe I, as customer, am entitled to them until at least 2 years after my purchase. I'm going to contact my lawyer about this btw.

This, by the by, is one of the BIGGEST reasons why I keep "whining" (as some seem to like labelling it) for MORE open-sourcing and for more updates for my N800. Considering Nokia has COMPLETELY abandoned the 770 and N8x0 owners, we're VERY, very much left out in the "security through obscurity" realm and it's very unpleasant. Especially if you had used these devices as a basis for business or even for personal power-user purposes. Unacceptable for a device supposedly marketing itself high on the "open-source" aspects.

[attila77]

Even if 100% of Maemo would be open source (which I would really really like to see), it wouldn't help this problem, there is one source of plugins - Adobe. No really, enough of this 'we sent the stuff to Nokia'. ONE WEB, ANY DEVICE. That's Adobe's slogan, not Nokia's, Samsung's or whoevers. If you deal with OPEN development, you send the source to gitorious. But apart from this finger-pointing and blame-game, sadly, Adobe does not deal with people. They just don't care about people. They deal with companies, and if the Adobe style 'mah ppl vill kall yo ppl' whos-the-koolest-kid-on-the-block deal falls through, tough luck. You are at their mercy for each and every version. And if you blame the vendor, that only helps them keeping on with this business. Go and ask HTC Hero owners (another device that shipped with Flash 9) how's their full flash update (hint - it's in the same status as ours). Or how's that demonstrated Flash 10.1 for the Palm Pre (do you need a hint about the status of that one ?).

And while I'm talking about other platforms - remember that talk how Flash will be multiplatform and how Flash 10.1 will support blackberry and symbian and webos and.. ? Well, surprise, surprise, Adobe has (yet again) changed their requirements on mobile devices, now it's ONLY Android 2.2 with a Cortex A8 minimum. Everybody else got erased (yes, even MeeGo), public demonstrations on the N900 and Palm Pre be damned. I guess we'll be friends again if the Apple and/or Android thing make a turn for the worse. But enough ranting, everyone can blame whoever they feel bad about at the moment, but considering how Adobe handled Maemo, MeeGo, Linux (esp 64bit), WebOS (and the list goes on) the day when we don't need to depend on somebody's whim (=binary blobs) just to be able visit a bloody web site can't come soon enough.