Adobe Flash Player 10: When will the update arrive? Is it coming at all?

[mannen]

Will nokia/maemo be adding support for updated flash player? How has it worked with previous tablets?

[Jack6428]

I'm too lazy, so in a short answer:
YES, Q1 2010

[Bratag]

Will nokia/maemo be adding support for updated flash player? How has it worked with previous tablets?

Yes it will - if you do a little searching there is a link to the adobe presentation on it somewhere in amongst the fluff

[joshua.maverick]

Yup, take a look man:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pee3nT4bPw4

[samtng]

Does anyone get Flash Player 10 updated on N900 yet?

-sam

[joshv06]

Does anyone get Flash Player 10 updated on N900 yet?

-sam


It's comming out next year. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pee3nT4bPw4

[patstew]

It's not out yet, unless your job is testing for adobe.

[jdave76]

Realy happy with this device but really need flash 10
most videos on web are pants(bbc iplayer ect), any one have an idea when we can expect it.

[bandora]

Realy happy with this device but really need flash 10
most videos on web are pants(bbc iplayer ect), any one have an idea when we can expect it.

Search the forum maybe? Really it takes you less time to search for that instead of creating a new thread and typing all that..

[Diavoli]

Since the new Youtube video from the Nexus One running the Flash Player 10.1 has garnered so much attention, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlWOocHwcLo would like to inquire about the time frame for our beloved N900 to get this, are we supposed to assume that it will be in a firmware upgrade?

I understand that it's only in beta anyways.

Thanks

[chrisp7]

The N900 is on video running 10.1 too..

[Diavoli]

The N900 is on video running 10.1 too..

Yes i've seen that, like 3 months ago wasn't it, at Adobe MAX, just inquiring about the actual upgrade?

[chrisp7]

Yes i've seen that, like 3 months ago wasn't it, at Adobe MAX, just inquiring about the actual upgrade?

Ah ok - you'd assume when its on general release from Adobe, so Q1. might be a while..

[R-R]

It better be here sooner than later... Nokia needs a giant kick in the butt right now!
Same for video chat official support jingle & skype and all the optimisation and useful apps they can get.

[Bratag]

It better be here sooner than later... Nokia needs a giant kick in the butt right now!
Same for video chat official support jingle & skype and all the optimisation and useful apps they can get.

The phone comes with Skype built in - what exactly do you want extra

[Laughing Man]

For Skype to do video calls?

It would be a handy feature so I wouldn't have to jump onto my laptop to have a face to face conversation with my girlfriend who will be in Dubai for one more week.

[Bratag]

For Skype to do video calls?

It would be a handy feature so I wouldn't have to jump onto my laptop to have a face to face conversation with my girlfriend who will be in Dubai for one more week.

Ahh ok - yeah could see that being a decent feature.

[mysticrokks]

omg i need that android phone.

[Diavoli]

The phone comes with Skype built in - what exactly do you want extra


I never had Skype built into mine, still waiting for the download to come on the apps, just says coming soon. Personally prefer Flash player over skype

[mysticrokks]

flash player over skype- what dies this mean- what comparison is that.

[hangster]

I never had Skype built into mine, still waiting for the download to come on the apps, just says coming soon. Personally prefer Flash player over skype

Skype is built into the messaging functions of the phone. Once you register your skype account in the control panel, you'll be able to make skype calls and send messages over skype.

[yorg]

It better be here sooner than later... Nokia needs a giant kick in the butt right now!


Why? Jesus, you guys act like my 6 year old niece sometimes.

Sooner is better but bug free is more important.

[mysticrokks]

yorg he is right they need to sort it out know- and bug free.

[yorg]

But stic mate, why is it so important? The n900 is the only phone with flash support at the moment. Period. Why does it have to be the first one with support for 10.1? It is not that you cannot live without it now anyway.

Or am I missing something?

For me number one priority is to fix the bugs first. Flash 10.1 is just a gimmick. Nice but not essential.

[mysticrokks]

i am hoping it will come in the new f/w with the bug fixs- thats why i want it quick-

i love the browser. i love it. cant get enough-i want the 10.1 but that wasnt my point- i may have missinterpreted the point

[thinh]

i doubt flash 10 gonna be a life changing difference when it comes out for the n900...

[Laughing Man]

i doubt flash 10 gonna be a life changing difference when it comes out for the n900...

Depends on how it's done. Flash 10 I think in general is an improvement in efficiency over Flash 9. But more importantly Flash 10 can actually offload work to the GPU so it's not the CPU doing all the work anymore.

[yorg]

So it is going to improve the phone! Great!

Only, it is already "top dog" at the part that will be improved. It is not a part of the phone that it lacks in, so why the hurry?

[nashith]

I agree that Flash is sort of like a step backwards, depending so much on a single company for all the updates and support. It's like Windows in a sense. Everybody started using it and now it's very difficult to not come across it. All the major websites use it and almost all the A/V streaming websites use Flash in some form. The ugly truth is that we need Flash for now and you cannot expect to bring the desktop web experience without it.

[406NotAcceptable]

But stic mate, why is it so important? The n900 is the only phone with flash support at the moment. Period.

Rubbish. I had flash support on my G1 a few months back. The HTC Hero has flash, and the Droid has flash too.

The owners of all devices with flash are all waiting for Flash 10.1 for the GPU acceleration.

[nashith]

@406NotAcceptable, I wasn't aware of any mobile device supporting full flash (not Flash Lite). Could you point me to a source where I can get it please.

[zwer]

Rubbish. I had flash support on my G1 a few months back. The HTC Hero has flash, and the Droid has flash too.

The owners of all devices with flash are all waiting for Flash 10.1 for the GPU acceleration.

Humbug! You didn't have Flash on any Android device, period. The best you could get is the alpha-ish state of the current FP 10.1 development version, but it's not final and it's not supported, not to mention that it works like crap. And even that I'd take with a grain of salt unless you are a HTC or Adobe employee...

If you are talking about Flash Lite 3.1, that's like calling a WML browser a fully fledged HTML browser...

[Bundyo]

http://www.gsmarena.com/htc_hero-review-382p8.php

First sentence.

[zwer]

Last week Adobe CEO Shantana Narayen promised a player by October, saying it would first be available for Google’s Android operating system. This morning, HTC held a live event to show off its next smartphone, the Hero, which will be available later this year. The slim device is loaded up with Google’s Android operating system, HTC’s attractive Sense user interface, and a Flash player that supports Flash Lite 3.1.

Most reviewers have no clue of a difference between Flash Player and Flash Lite. Flash Lite is not full Flash support, not even close, ask any professional ActionScript developer to explain you the difference. If we would claim any device that have Flash Lite as a flash-enabled device, then most of the S60 phones are supporting Flash for years now...

[Bundyo]

This one has.

Though I can't seem to find much info about the Flash version.

[zwer]

Nope, it has not: http://www.htc.com/www/product/hero/overview.html

HTC Hero browser comes with Flash Lite version 3.1 and supports playback of SWF contents up to Flash 9 and ActionScript 2.0.

Forget what gsm-arena claims, playing banners (mostly AS 2.0 with no shaders and other effects) and video does not mean `full Flash support`. Flash Lite != Flash Player.

[Rushmore]

I wish we had a Flash Lite option so we could play Flash games and watch Flash video without all of the browser overhead. I have two 3430 devices (Archos 5 & N900). Archos 5 plays the same videos and games smoother and with better quality. A5 uses Flash Lite.

Even with Flash 10.1 it will not perform as well as it could, due to the browser also being open. Both in battery and actual smoothness for some content.

[Bratag]

I wish we had a Flash Lite option so we could play Flash games and watch Flash video without all of the browser overhead. I have two 3430 devices (Archos 5 & N900). Archos 5 plays the same videos and games smoother and with better quality. A5 uses Flash Lite.

Even with Flash 10.1 it will not perform as well as it could, due to the browser also being open. Both in battery and actual smoothness for some content.

I think you will be surprised at how much better flash is once the load is put onto the GPU rather than CPU. That being said flash is a bloated POS that long ago should have been replaced by something lighter.

[MrGrim]

There's a stand-alone flash player too. I can't seem to find it now, but it works ok on my fedora system. Doesn't seem to have dependencies either. Perhaps adobe could be bothered to recompile for arm?

[Rushmore]

Be nice to have the option, but Bratag is correct, since the GPU being used to help out in 10.1, should be much better.

Flash Lite would be a nice bridge. Flash content ATM with 9.4 is a battery killa'!

[Bundyo]

MPlayer plays flv and swf. No interaction though.

[c0rt3x]

I agree that Flash is sort of like a step backwards, depending so much on a single company for all the updates and support. It's like Windows in a sense. Everybody started using it and now it's very difficult to not come across it. All the major websites use it and almost all the A/V streaming websites use Flash in some form. The ugly truth is that we need Flash for now and you cannot expect to bring the desktop web experience without it.

And yet everyone bashes Apple because of this decision (and not anything else instead, there is so much to criticize)...

Now a wide majority of the Apple haters (this group of people is probably equal to the amount of Iphone owners) considers Flash as a symbol of freedom, which it clearly isn't.

[zwer]

I wish we had a Flash Lite option so we could play Flash games and watch Flash video without all of the browser overhead. I have two 3430 devices (Archos 5 & N900). Archos 5 plays the same videos and games smoother and with better quality. A5 uses Flash Lite.

Even with Flash 10.1 it will not perform as well as it could, due to the browser also being open. Both in battery and actual smoothness for some content.
What you wish for is a standalone player (much like the one that exists for Windows and MacOS X, and somewhat for Linux), not a heavily crippled standalone that is Flash Lite. You'd be surprised how big of a change happened between AVM1 (AS 2.0 & earlier, no JIT, almost no natives, prototype approach) and AVM2 (AS 3.0, JIT, native types, heavy low-level optimizations) speed and byte-code wise - in many cases AVM2 runs faster within a browser than browser's own JS interpreter (which is why plenty of AJAX sites use Flash as an off-loading engine for complex calculations like encryption and such, and even more for its outstanding communication abilities). Flash Lite is based on AVM1, and supports roughly 30-40% of it at that (granted it was upgraded mostly on the video part to allow mobile devices to play JT videos for example), which makes it pretty useless for anything else than banners and playing videos - there are old games that will run or somewhat run in it, but unless the game was created specifically for Flash Lite (which is PITA for any Flash Developer even more than being forced to use hacked-OOP, prototype based approach to programming) you are bound to experience lots of difficulties and unneeded slowdowns. Try surfing through MiniClip on your A5 and see what happens when you try to start a game that was not created with Flash Lite in mind.

Even better than having a standalone Flash Player would be to get an official Adobe AIR port for Maemo - while AIR does add some overhead to the player itself, it would bring millions of Flash Developers to the platform with the ability to create a desktop-grade applications within minutes.

In the lack of both, old tricks can be used that were used in pre-AIR times when one needed Flash to access more than simple Web Services - writing a standalone app that is able to utilize netscape plugin architecture and make it serve only one purpose - play .swf files within the Flash Player. I don't know what kind of webkit support is there in QT, but I'm fairly confident that it could be used to access the Flash Plugin (usually, libflashplayer.so, don't have N900 yet to verify) and pass it a target .swf file. As a matter of fact, if the first two solutions don't show up in timely manner, I do plan to write such an application.

Be nice to have the option, but Bratag is correct, since the GPU being used to help out in 10.1, should be much better.

Flash Lite would be a nice bridge. Flash content ATM with 9.4 is a battery killa'!

GPU support will only be there for video acceleration, at least for now. There is a possibility to be used for the basic 3D transformations that were added to FP 10, but apart from that I wouldn't rise my hopes too much. They've been promising GPU support for the FP 10.0 since they started talking about it, and there is even added wmode `gpu` (which does nothing), but it didn't bring any speed up. Problem with Flash, when it comes to performance, is that it was, and remains to be a vector-based engine, and that's what makes it so slow - there were lots of optimizations over the time, and AVM2 is pretty awesome as far as VM goes, but the graphics engine of it still remains pretty big CPU hog. Now, they've promised that they'll try to speed up vector graphics by tessellating it and sending it to GPU, but if desktop prerelease versions of 10.1 (http://labs.adobe.com/downloads/flashplayer10.html) are of any comparison, it didn't speed it up noticeably. The only noticeable benefit of GPU acceleration so far is video playback - while I have no troubles playing 1080p flash videos on my computer, I know people that couldn't play even 720p before 10.1, and they can run even 1080p now - granted 10.1 really is a beta and it breaks lots of other stuff (not as much as the prerelease, but still not for everyday use).

On the other hand, since 10.1 is developed under Open Screen Project, I do hope that performance improvement will come not from the introduction of GPU in the process, but from some low-level optimizations to the AVM2 (specially its memory management) that Adobe will get input from most mobile manufacturers.

Either way, one thing is for sure, Flash Player 10.1 will run better than 9.4, and possibly even the Flash Lite in standalone mode.

[shadowjk]

flash player on x86-* linux seems to support VAAPI for video acceleration... N900 doesn't have vaapi...

Anyone wanna bet adobe wont support the gstreamer/openmax codecs in N900, and that Nokia/community wont write VAAPI support? :-)

[aniMAL_]

I own an Atom Z520 powered machine with a GMA500 chipset. Using standard Flash player (Current build) it runs like a dog. However, with the 10.1 there is a massive performance gain ( talking 10fps+ than before) - Obviously its not quite the same hardware for sure, but 10.1 will most certainly improve things.

[zaheerm]

flash player on x86-* linux seems to support VAAPI for video acceleration... N900 doesn't have vaapi...

Anyone wanna bet adobe wont support the gstreamer/openmax codecs in N900, and that Nokia/community wont write VAAPI support? :-)

At the maemo summit, the guy talking about the web browser said in his talk that in flash 10.1 on n900, it will use gstreamer and hence the dsp accelerated codecs there.

[oldpmaguy]

I completely love the N900 browser, and the Flash ability just makes it even more superior than it already is.

But I've been to a few sites that require Flash 10 to view video. I know that the N900 comes ready with Flash 9, but it's already out of date on some sites, and who knows how long before that number grows?

Will there be an ability to upgrade to Flash 10 in the N900 browser? Or is there already such an ability that I am unaware of?

I am really looking forward to viewing video on the slickest sites that support the newest software (read - thedailyshow.com)!

[vitaminj]

Yes, Flash 10.1 (flash 10 with hardware video acceleration, amongst other additions) is "coming soon".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pee3nT4bPw4
http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/flashplayer10/

[casper27]

Flash 10 is going to come to the N900 it has already been demonstrated by Adobe. Its not available yet but im sure if you keep an eye out round here the second its announced it will be announced on here.

[msa]

while we're at it: will the update to flash10 improve the general flash performance?

[Arctine]

while we're at it: will the update to flash10 improve the general flash performance?

Well yes that is pretty much the point of it.

[oldpmaguy]

Thanks for the encouraging info. I'm looking forward to it. I was terribly afraid that the N900 browser would be stuck forever on Flash 9 because it was built into the hardware or something equally as awful.

[ed00]

As long as we on this. Does anybody tried to run flash player on or high quality. I try to setup but it always goes back to medium quality even on one time run (click & hold on video screen to see an option) still doesnt work. I just dont know wheres default setting for that.

[chrisp7]

Im hoping flash 10 will allow the n900 to work with iplayer/improved youtube performance. God the n900 will be awesome then.

[JD2010]

has anyone heard about flash 10 comming soon?

[Catacylsm]

Flash 10 is built to use the hardware much better, we should see some pretty rediculous gains. :)

[JD2010]

Flash 10 is built to use the hardware much better, we should see some pretty rediculous gains. :)


Is it out yet? when I go to a site it says do you want to install and it ask wich linux version to take but they are many I don't know wich one to take, does someone know?

[dmj726]

It's not out yet. Any Flash 10 you see for linux right now is for x86 processors. The main reason we're still waiting is Adobe hasn't released Flash 10 for arm processors, which is what the n900 has.

[danramos]

Boy, this thread is sure full of a lot of hope and not a lot of much else. Step back a bit.. are there any indications that Flash 10 will come to the N900? ...Or is everyone here just to say that they would be happy if it arrived on the N900?

[wierdo]

Boy, this thread is sure full of a lot of hope and not a lot of much else. Step back a bit.. are there any indications that Flash 10 will come to the N900? ...Or is everyone here just to say that they would be happy if it arrived on the N900?
Adobe announced it. Hell, it's been demoed. There's a youtube video. Look it up.

[tuxfoo]

Boy, this thread is sure full of a lot of hope and not a lot of much else. Step back a bit.. are there any indications that Flash 10 will come to the N900? ...Or is everyone here just to say that they would be happy if it arrived on the N900?

http://blogs.forum.nokia.com/blog/alessandro-paces-forum-nokia-blog/2009/10/06/nokia-n900-running-flash-10.1-for-mobile

[sjgadsby]

The following threads have been merged into this thread:
"Flash Player 10.1 Firmware upgrade?" with thirty-one posts
"What about Flash 10?" with twenty-two posts
"n900 flash 10 ?" with two posts

[danramos]

Adobe announced it. Hell, it's been demoed. There's a youtube video. Look it up.

So then, my question then becomes, first, "why isn't it released then?" Is it still being tested or something? Did they promise it would come out or will it never see the light of day?

My next question is then, "why is everyone bellyaching over it so much?" If it's been pretty much promised and it's being tweaked or tested, then why grumble? The N900 only JUST came out, give it time.

I guess I'm just a little confused by all the fuss.

[Jeffgrado]

I'd love to see this update, but I don't think it will be released on the N900. It's too much of a selling point for future devices. Luckily we should have a few years before Flash 10+ is required on the majority of sites.

[Mumbler]

I'd love to see this update, but I don't think it will be released on the N900. It's too much of a selling point for future devices. Luckily we should have a few years before Flash 10+ is required on the majority of sites.

You forget that the N900 is a very hacker-friendly device... If Nokia doesn't release it officially (which I think they will anyhow), someone else will make an unofficial patch.

[aironeous]

Go to Adobe flash 10.1 forum.
http://forums.adobe.com/community/labs/flashplayer10/
I started a thread asking when we can we expect it for N900 and it goes unanswered, It's on page 3. Chime in there.

[danramos]

Go to Adobe flash 10.1 forum.
http://forums.adobe.com/community/labs/flashplayer10/
I started a thread asking when we can we expect it for N900 and it goes unanswered, It's on page 3. Chime in there.

That was an excellent move. Thank you VERY much!

[sjgadsby]

why isn't it released then?

Because Adobe didn't release/isn't releasing the final verson of Flash 10 to manufacturers until Q1 2010 (http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/pressroom/pressreleases/200904/040109AdobeTIOMAP.html). Following that, Nokia needs to do testing and integration.

[konfoo]

I was up at Adobe for a partner summit last week and got to speak to the Flash on devices guys.

Naturally I asked where I could obtain the 10.1 beta for testing, since there was discussion about availability for testing on other handhelds, and the response was that yes it does exist and will be coming to the N900, but it is up to Nokia to release it as part of a future firmware update.

[Laughing Man]

but it is up to Nokia to release it as part of a future firmware update.

Aww poo. And they'd probably wait to the next PR update.

[aironeous]

This is the closest to a monopoly as you can get without being a monopoly.

We are in a total effect situation Adobe cause---> us effect

Go to Wikipedia.org and look up defintion of monopoly and flash 10.1 meets all the criteria except the money making parts.

Flash < 10.1 does not count in this world as every website upgrades.

Online environment is a different one than the real world and so monopoly definition should modify for online presence.

We have no way to eliminate Adobe's stranglehold on our devices. We are not able to play 90+% of flash video websites because we are not a priority OS as determined by Adobe.

They can basically take a dump on our face because the whole internet converts to flash 10 and we can't.

[aironeous]

I was up at Adobe for a partner summit last week and got to speak to the Flash on devices guys.

Naturally I asked where I could obtain the 10.1 beta for testing, since there was discussion about availability for testing on other handhelds, and the response was that yes it does exist and will be coming to the N900, but it is up to Nokia to release it as part of a future firmware update.

I'm sorry to be rude If I am being so but next time you see those guys stand up for your OS and tell them that we are important too and make them explain why Nokias OS, the largest phone supplier of the whole world gets ignored by flash.
Totally stupid to ignore the largest mobile market on the f'n planet.

Ask them if they have their heads up their *** and if they realize everything is going mobile and WM is not where it's at so WTF?!!

[gerbick]

So then, my question then becomes, first, "why isn't it released then?" Is it still being tested or something? Did they promise it would come out or will it never see the light of day?

It's being tested on WebOS and Maemo as we speak. It's not yet released due to ARM modifications as well as getting it ready for simultaneous release for desktop (or close therein)

It's still beta on the desktop/

My next question is then, "why is everyone bellyaching over it so much?"

Two reasons... Hulu and other folks that for no real reason all of a sudden require it. I'm a Flex dev and Flash Builder 4 (Flex 4) makes the jump to FP10. So this is a necessary update for a lot of reasons.

If it's been pretty much promised and it's being tweaked or tested, then why grumble? The N900 only JUST came out, give it time.

Because they can? ;)

I guess I'm just a little confused by all the fuss.

No need to be confused. With Adobe moving rapidly ahead with Flash Builder 4, Adobe CS5 Suite, Adobe Flash Catalyst... the need for this is rather imminent due to the tools pushing everybody to the newer flash player. Just wish that the communication from the Adobe Open Screen Project was more... forthcoming. But patience is required since it's been demoed before during Adobe MAX last October and more comments about it since then for the Palm Pre and Maemo...

Hope that helps.

[aironeous]

Because Adobe didn't release/isn't releasing the final verson of Flash 10 to manufacturers until Q1 2010 (http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/pressroom/pressreleases/200904/040109AdobeTIOMAP.html). Following that, Nokia needs to do testing and integration.

It's Q1 2010 man.
Who is testing this huh? Nobody.
Is there some other place on the internet that we can find Nokia employees testing a flash 10 beta? No there isn't.

If there was anybody in the f'n world testing a flash 10.1 beta for N900 we would have atleast been given a heads up by some of the members here that they were testing a beta version.

Adobe flash 10 is a monopoly.

They do what they want, when they want, how they want and if your OS doesn't like it too f'n bad.
So many online websites and interaction depend on them yet they are in a dictatorship position.

[Laughing Man]

Q1 2010 isn't Jan or Feb. It's a time period (till March or April.. I can't remember since different companies use different time periods)

As far as we know Nokia could be testing it and just not mentioning it. They don't always involve the community in testing new firmware and new things (sadly). By the time the community gets to it, it's usually close to release (like the firmware 1.1 update).

[gerbick]

It's Q1 2010 man.
Who is testing this huh? Nobody.

Wrong. QA testing is in private beta. When it comes out, it'll land on labs.adobe.com - but due to the nature of the install, I doubt it'll exit private beta until it's "ready"... which is about the same as it is on other embedded systems.

Is there some other place on the internet that we can find Nokia employees testing a flash 10 beta? No there isn't.

Again, it's all internally Adobe. Just like nobody is testing PR1.2 except Nokia right now. It happens. Same with Silverlight by Microsoft on the Maemo OS. Only MS is testing that.

If there was anybody in the f'n world testing a flash 10.1 beta for N900 we would have atleast been given a heads up by some of the members here that they were testing a beta version.

Wait for it to get out of private beta.

Adobe flash 10 is a monopoly.

Yep. So are a lot of things.

[Thesandlord]

I am guessing they want to release it on all smartphone and desktop platforms at the same time. And Flash is NOT a monopoly. That does not even make sense... They just control the market. Its proprietary, yes, but not really a monopoly...

[gerbick]

I am guessing they want to release it on all smartphone and desktop platforms at the same time. And Flash is NOT a monopoly. That does not even make sense... They just control the market. Its proprietary, yes, but not really a monopoly...

I once argued that here... since then, never again.

[aironeous]

^ Q1 means first quarter.
It's Feb 2nd now, we are almost in the middle of first quarter.
If they were going to release it in the next month and a half then someone here would have said, "hey my fellow Nokia employees are testing it now, just be patient" or something similar to that.
So stop pretending.

Anybody can say "wrong" and anybody can say "doesn't make sense."

One more time since you said "doesn't make sense" without actually pointing out how it doesn't,
I said Adobe flash meets all the criteria of a monopoly except the money making parts.
A few excerpts from wikipedia about monopoly:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopoly
"Product differentiation: There is zero product differentiation in a perfectly competitive market. Every product is perfectly homogeneous and a perfect substitute. With a monopoly there is high to absolute product differentiation in the sense that there is no available substitute for a monopolized good. The monopolist is the sole supplier of the good in question.[19] A customer either buys from the monopolist on her terms or does without.

Number of competitors: PC markets are populated by an infinite number of buyers and sellers. Monopoly involves a single seller.[19]

Barriers to Entry - Barriers to entry are factors and circumstances that prevent entry into market by would be competitors and impediments to competition that limit new firm’s from operating and expanding within the market. PC markets have free entry and exit. There are no barriers to entry, exit or competition. Monopolies have relatively high barriers to entry. The barriers must be strong enough to prevent or discourage any potential competitor from entering the market."

Show me a substitute for flash 10.1 that works atleast 90% as good and I will say I am wrong.

[ohwut]

^ Q1 means first quarter.
It's Feb 2nd now, we are almost in the middle of first quarter.
If they were going to release it in the next month and a half then someone here would have said, "hey my fellow Nokia employees are testing it now, just be patient" or something similar to that.
So stop pretending.

Anybody can say "wrong" and anybody can say "doesn't make sense."

One more time since you said "doesn't make sense" without actually pointing out how it doesn't,
I said Adobe flash meets all the criteria of a monopoly except the money making parts.
A few excerpts from wikipedia about monopoly:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopoly
"Product differentiation: There is zero product differentiation in a perfectly competitive market. Every product is perfectly homogeneous and a perfect substitute. With a monopoly there is high to absolute product differentiation in the sense that there is no available substitute for a monopolized good. The monopolist is the sole supplier of the good in question.[19] A customer either buys from the monopolist on her terms or does without.

Number of competitors: PC markets are populated by an infinite number of buyers and sellers. Monopoly involves a single seller.[19]

Barriers to Entry - Barriers to entry are factors and circumstances that prevent entry into market by would be competitors and impediments to competition that limit new firm’s from operating and expanding within the market. PC markets have free entry and exit. There are no barriers to entry, exit or competition. Monopolies have relatively high barriers to entry. The barriers must be strong enough to prevent or discourage any potential competitor from entering the market."

Show me a substitute for flash 10.1 that works atleast 90% as good and I will say I am wrong.

The problem is the content you're viewing, thats like saying "Oh, F1 Cars have a monopoly in the F1 racing world" In actual accounts Flash does have a MAJORITY share, but hardly a monopoly. Flash only accounts for 70% of web videos and 75% of web games.

It's perfectly acceptable for people not to be testing software outside of Adobe, this is Adobe software we're talking about here, not Nokia. Sure it would be in Nokia's best interest to have involvement in the QA process but they don't need to be involved, and this is a Nokia/Maemo forum so you can't expect Adobe running around posting updates for us. Adobe can released Flash 10 regardless of Nokia's involvement or opinion assuming they can give us an update without requiring a full OS flash.

[danramos]

It's Q1 2010 man.
Who is testing this huh? Nobody.
Is there some other place on the internet that we can find Nokia employees testing a flash 10 beta? No there isn't.

If there was anybody in the f'n world testing a flash 10.1 beta for N900 we would have atleast been given a heads up by some of the members here that they were testing a beta version.

Adobe flash 10 is a monopoly.

They do what they want, when they want, how they want and if your OS doesn't like it too f'n bad.
So many online websites and interaction depend on them yet they are in a dictatorship position.

Cripes. You're THAT guy, aren't you? You know the one. The one with with the nervous tick and the conspiracy theories and keeps angsting about how the IRS is illegal (but doesn't dare not pay it). That guy.. the the one that makes us relatively healthy paranoids look bad. :)

Q1 2010 isn't Jan or Feb. It's a time period (till March or April.. I can't remember since different companies use different time periods)

There's only 12 months in a year, a quarter of a year is three months and it's a measurable length. Now if they stated, "our financial Q1"... that's a different calendar that they're referring to and it's a three month period from THEIR calendar. Q1 is a solid period from January 1st through March 31st--period. It's not something a company can claim differently if they state it as a flat out period of our modern calendar. :)

[JD2010]

this thread was a bit slow but I think more website will use flash 10 people will get upset if flash 10 doesn't go out

[konfoo]

I am guessing they want to release it on all smartphone and desktop platforms at the same time.

That is exactly the case. People don't seem to realize that Flash has dependencies like Flash Media Server. Adobe always seeds the player before the server to ensure compatibility. Add to that the fact that mobile deployment is a lot more complex than desktop deployment. And the mobile market is completely different in terms of their partners vs. the desktop market. A gradual rollout over mobile platforms would be a support nightmare for them nevermind competitors would spin it as an underlying problem with their technology.

There are no conspiracies here, besides the fact that some people would like to believe so. You don't hear about testing because partners are under NDA. And it really isn't constructive to any form of discussion to ***** and moan continuously.

[maxximuscool]

I hope there is no Memory Leak like the flash player 9.4 on the current firmware. The memory leak is terribly bad, once view a flash content like video, the phone will runs really slow and even after it closed down, the phone seem to runs fine but the battery is not running fine. Battery drain like there is a leak in the pipe.

[Ashley]

hey, tried to view a youtube video today in microb, got a message saying that my flash player is out of date, followed the link to the flash update site, where flash 10 is available to download, has anyone else experienced anything similar, available downloads are YUM, APT .deb, .tar.gz and .rpm, expecting to see a .install, have not tried yet... cheers

[zwer]

Something might have broke in the JS verification on YouTube. They require 9.x player (and they probably never will require 10 as it adds nothing to the ability to play video) so it was probably a temporary glitch.

Players available on Adobe site are for x86 architectures therefore those are not applicable on your N900. Flash 10.1 for Maemo will probably come with one of the firmware updates in the future...

[speculatrix]

you can write your own flash player, say Adobe, as all the standards are public
http://blogs.adobe.com/open/2010/02/following_the_open_trail.html

[zwer]

That's what I've been saying for years (although only with Tamarin the openness became enough useful for real world application), but there are two problems:

1) Some of the crucial parts for what Flash today is massively used - codecs, some bits of vector processing and shaders (until they switch to pure PixelBender), some of the sandboxing procedures, as well as upcoming HW acceleration are not open, and at least 80% of Flash on the web uses those.
2) If you build your own, better player it will take you a decade to reach Flash Player penetration, so you would need to follow their specifications of what you can and cannot do to the letter. This is the part where disadvantage of proprietary formats kick in...

Either way, it is applaudable for Adobe to release so much of the Flash platform in the open, but it still is not enough (and in most cases it really is not Adobe's fault) for independent groups to release some useful replacement. At present time we still need to look at Adobe for Flash support on our favorite devices.

[shadowjk]

I think ffmpeg has implementation of all the codecs. It probably also has an implementation of all the codecs Silverlight uses..

[aironeous]

N900 is shown on video playing flash 10.1 by Adobe
But when I start a thread on Adobe asking where is our beta to test I get finger pointing at Nokia by someone responding on the thread and none of you backing me up asking where is the beta.
http://forums.adobe.com/community/labs/flashplayer10/

[teh]

Any updates on this? Anyone out there in Adobe or Nokia land who can say yay or nay to 10.1?

Yes its great having flash 9.4 on the N900, but I can't use iPlayer (even the lo-fi version!) and other on demand streaming, including youtube without serious lag issues.

The sooner it gets tested, and released to public for testing the better because it would enhance the N900 web browsing dramatically.

[speculatrix]

have you tried setting your browser user agent to the WII or PS3 and then BBC iplayer should work quite well as these have old versions of flash.

OTOH I tried iplayer on an n900 back in ?november? at the UK launch/meet-up and it worked fine, so not sure why it doesn't work for you.

[salawat]

have you tried setting your browser user agent to the WII or PS3 and then BBC iplayer should work quite well as these have old versions of flash.

.



hi how do you set your browser user agent to the wii or ps3? can you help me here?

regards

[teh]

have you tried setting your browser user agent to the WII or PS3 and then BBC iplayer should work quite well as these have old versions of flash.

OTOH I tried iplayer on an n900 back in ?november? at the UK launch/meet-up and it worked fine, so not sure why it doesn't work for you.

It works, but is VERY laggy. Live tv isn't as bad though, it just drains the battery.

[maxximuscool]

flash video and contents has memory leak issues. When you are watching or watched the content, it retain in the CPU and RAM cycle and never stopped. Even the CPU seem tp behave normally but the battery is draining silently without you notice it. unless you restart the device then it will flush out the drainage.

I really hope flash 10.1 does not have this sort of issues.

[sophocha]

i think the adobe demo video showing 10.1 is actually 9.4,because the website that they demoed is playing fine with 9.4 giving roughly the same framerat as their demo.Even the 'heavy' flash website with the rabbits plays just fine with 9.4....conspiracy theory or not i think they will take forever for us to see 10.1 on the N900....only time will tell....

[jmk]

Flash 10.1 coming also for Android.. probably N900 users also need to wait for ~Q2/2010 :(

http://www.expertreviews.co.uk/general/275677/android-may-need-an-update-to-run-flash-10-1-expected-in-q2-2010
http://www.informationweek.com/blog/main/archives/2010/02/android_updates.html;jsessionid=3CFU43IW0JAVRQE1GH PSKHWATMY32JVN

[Lacedaemon]

NO WORD for it on Maemo / Nokia N900:
http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/pressroom/pressreleases/201002/021510FlashPlayerMWC.html

"Mobile platforms that will support the full Flash Player include Android, the BlackBerry® platform, Symbian® OS, Palm® webOS and Windows Mobile®".

More wait anyone?

[johnel]

Personally I think we are better without it!

I always find Flash to be a cpu hog on Linux and the only "benefit" of Flash is to view online video.

I'd rather have more support for html 5 video tags.

Does the maemo version of Mplayer play flash videos?

[HugoSon]

NO WORD for it on Maemo / Nokia N900:
http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/pressroom/pressreleases/201002/021510FlashPlayerMWC.html

"Mobile platforms that will support the full Flash Player include Android, the BlackBerry® platform, Symbian® OS, Palm® webOS and Windows Mobile®".

More wait anyone?

Yep - I was also a bit surprised regarding the news on engadget. Maybe Adobe was just not sure on how to name it now in their press release - Maemo or MeeGo ;)

[sophocha]

I knew it....as I said....Flash 10.1 will NEVER get on an N900....why?

Adobe pulled the plug on Win 6.5 today....so no flash for them....now, what makes you think that these lazy faks will put flash on a platform that is almost dead (I`m talking about Maemo)....Now that Meego is up I don`t think they will even contemplate putting flash on Maemo....the dream is over :(

[squirreluk]

This is a joke, n900 mobile computer?? these basic functions should be working, maybe it would be slow etc but i cant watch half the videos on the net because flash is not the latest versions, i love this phone but to be honest some things are **** me off the now.

[JD2010]

At the beginning of this thread there is a youtube video that play flash beta on an N900 so that must mean something???

[squirreluk]

At the beginning of this thread there is a youtube video that play flash beta on an N900 so that must mean something???

Theres been a lot promised for this phone but im not so sure its all coming, phone was shown off with flash but has not moved with the times.

[shadowjk]

I knew it....as I said....Flash 10.1 will NEVER get on an N900....why?

Adobe pulled the plug on Win 6.5 today....so no flash for them....now, what makes you think that these lazy faks will put flash on a platform that is almost dead (I`m talking about Maemo)....Now that Meego is up I don`t think they will even contemplate putting flash on Maemo....the dream is over :(

MeeGo changes nothing for Maemo 5. Maemo 5's product cycle isn't changed by MeeGo.

MeeGo isn't revolution, it's evolution.

[squirreluk]

MeeGo changes nothing for Maemo 5. Maemo 5's product cycle isn't changed by MeeGo.

MeeGo isn't revolution, it's evolution.

Well i just hope it helps to push the n900 on, Wish nokia would tell us where this phone is going.

[nax3000]

They have already demonstrated 10.1 working on a N900 so it's kind of weird if they'll pull the plug now.
Or maybe not. Remember - developing costs time and money. If Adobe doesn't see a viable reason to develop 10.1 for Maemo 5 (mainly because there a very few N900 owners worldwide as opposed to Android/Symbian) then they just won't bother.
________
Teen Gothic (http://www.****tube.com/categories/1033/gothic/videos/1)

[squirreluk]

They have already demonstrated 10.1 working on a N900 so it's kind of weird if they'll pull the plug now.
Or maybe not. Remember - developing costs time and money. If Adobe doesn't see a viable reason to develop 10.1 for Maemo 5 (mainly because there a very few N900 owners worldwide as opposed to Android/Symbian) then they just won't bother.

Suppose you cant really moan about adobe when nokia cant even make there own software support the n900.

[SubCore]

This is a joke, n900 mobile computer?? these basic functions should be working

flash 10 a "basic function"??
i think you are the one joking...

[zaheerm]

When I spoke to Adobe people at MWC last week, they told me that the code for 10.1 is shared with Nokia but Nokia have not given them or anyone a timeline on shipping so the only timelines they can give are for Android and WebOS. I asked about Air for Maemo/N900 and they said Nokia don't seem to be too keen on Adobe Air.

[marktold]

I think Flash 10.1 should be a major focus for Nokia!

Why

a) because I would like it (but that does not realy count)
b) because this would be one major advantage over Apples iPhone

Why does Apple not support Flash?

Because you could have applications and games out side of Apple Store - which of course is not what Apple would like. Read the section below to see why I say Apple does not want Flash.

Here is a statement from Adobe

http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/flashplayer10/#FAQ

On the bottom click on Product Details then see FAQ

QUOTE
When will Flash Player be available on the iPhone?
Adobe needs full support from Apple beyond what is available through the SDK to enable Web browsing of Flash-based content on the iPhone. While we have been working hard to make the browser plug-in available, without increased co-operation from Apple, it will not be possible. Adobe is therefore focusing our development work on the major smartphone platforms that are working with us to deliver the most innovative and complete web browsing experience. With more than 85 percent of the top 100 websites using Flash and approximately 75% of all videos on the Web using Flash, we still believe that Flash on the iPhone would greatly benefit the millions of joint Apple and Adobe customers.

UNQUOE

FAZIT

NOKIA - Be smart and take advantage of this situation. This is one USP Nokia should not miss!

Regards Markus

[marktold]

Unfortunately

There is no metioning of Maemo (mybe just to small at the moment) here.

http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/flashplayer10/features.html

QUOTE
Support for New Platforms

Flash Player 10.1 adds support for a broad range of mobile devices, including smartphones, netbooks and other Internet-connected devices, allowing your content to reach your customers wherever they are. Target mobile operating systems include: Android 2.0 (Éclair), Microsoft Windows Mobile 6.5, Palm webOS, and Symbian S60 V5 * **.

** The release of binaries for a few mobile platforms may lag behind others but will be available in the first half of 2010.

UNQUOTE

Regards Markus

[zaheerm]

Unfortunately

There is no metioning of Maemo (mybe just to small at the moment) here.

http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/flashplayer10/features.html


No mention of Maemo or Nokia because Adobe are in the dark as to when 10.1 will appear on a Maemo or Nokia device while they have control wrt Android and Palm.

Last week I also saw Flash 10.1 running on a Tegra board and asked about video acceleration with dsp. The guy told me the decoding is all done in cpu. I wonder if this is the case with Android/Palm that they just have optimised vp6 and h264 for the cpu rather than support all the different dsps on all the different SoCs used.

[Bundyo]

When I spoke to Adobe people at MWC last week, they told me that the code for 10.1 is shared with Nokia but Nokia have not given them or anyone a timeline on shipping so the only timelines they can give are for Android and WebOS. I asked about Air for Maemo/N900 and they said Nokia don't seem to be too keen on Adobe Air.

Well, I don't see how they can be keen on Air when they have a WRT of themselves to promote :)

[zwer]

This is a joke, n900 mobile computer?? these basic functions should be working, maybe it would be slow etc but i cant watch half the videos on the net because flash is not the latest versions, i love this phone but to be honest some things are **** me off the now.

What video you cannot watch because you don't have 10.1 on your N900. Think carefully what you'll answer, there are people that actually know a bit on how Flash video works and what are the differences between various Flash player versions.

While you are at it, since it is a basic function, name one production device that has FP 10.1 atm. I'm almost certain that it will come for the N900. Actually, name one device with a cell radio that has Flash (full version) at all. Any version.

[salawat]

Unfortunately

There is no metioning of Maemo (mybe just to small at the moment) here.

http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/flashplayer10/features.html

QUOTE
Support for New Platforms

Flash Player 10.1 adds support for a broad range of mobile devices, including smartphones, netbooks and other Internet-connected devices, allowing your content to reach your customers wherever they are. Target mobile operating systems include: Android 2.0 (Éclair), Microsoft Windows Mobile 6.5, Palm webOS, and Symbian S60 V5 * **.

** The release of binaries for a few mobile platforms may lag behind others but will be available in the first half of 2010.

UNQUOTE

Regards Markus


what about this though? does this not confirm its coming to the n900?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pee3nT4bPw4

[Fargus]

... Actually, name one device with a cell radio that has Flash (full version) at all. Any version.

Er my sister's laptop? I know where you were getting at but think the phrasing missed a tad.

[squirreluk]

What video you cannot watch because you don't have 10.1 on your N900. Think carefully what you'll answer, there are people that actually know a bit on how Flash video works and what are the differences between various Flash player versions.

While you are at it, since it is a basic function, name one production device that has FP 10.1 atm. I'm almost certain that it will come for the N900. Actually, name one device with a cell radio that has Flash (full version) at all. Any version.

Phone was advertised and listed as having flash player, now to me that means its a basic function of the phone, now i cant watch any flash video etc as nearly all sites i go to say that flash is out of date so really this phone does not support flash.

[TA-t3]

Sorry squirreluk, but that's just rubbish. Please be more precise in answering zwer's question: What videos, exactly, are those you can't watch? And, secondly, since when did 'having flash player' mean 'having a specific version of flash player'? And in this case it's totally ridiculous, there's _NO_ phone-like or hand-sized device out there with a 10.x version of the flashplayer. Not yet. This is something coming to mobile handhelds this year. The N900 was sold with the latest and greatest _FULL_ flash player at the time, oh, and still is. Note that e.g. the iPhone does _NOT_ have a full flash player installed.

[zwer]

Er my sister's laptop? I know where you were getting at but think the phrasing missed a tad.

I usually say `a handheld device with a cell phone functionality` to avoid such comments, I thought it's assumed when the N900 is the main subject. But yes, phrasing could be better...

Phone was advertised and listed as having flash player, now to me that means its a basic function of the phone, now i cant watch any flash video etc as nearly all sites i go to say that flash is out of date so really this phone does not support flash.

The N900 does HAVE a Flash Player, and a not cheap-*** Flash Lite, like the Symbian, but a real, fully fledged, desktop-grade Flash Player. It's just not the 10.xx.xx version, which makes it unable to use internal Flash `3D` transformations, Vector classes, advanced typography and not much else. Strangely enough, in all my surfing with N900, I've encountered a site that required 10.xx.xx player only once. And it turned out that it didn't (you can check the fourth byte of any .swf file to see which version it requires, tho even if targeted for Flash 10.xx.xx doesn't really mean it won't work on Flash 9.xx.xx unless it uses specific Flash 10.xx.xx classes), but was a fault of the developer who made his own script for checking against Flash player and failed at that miserably.

And in such cases, the old rule applies - don't blame the device/technology, blame the developers. Your device comes with a browser as well, that doesn't mean it will show every single page out there - I can make you a .html page that no browser will load, that doesn't mean that the browser sucks, it means that I'd fail at my job as a developer.

Since you are making a bold claim - nearly all sites i go to say that flash is out of date so really this phone does not support flash - would you like to post some URLs of those sites. I'd be more than happy to tell you where did their developers go wrong if needed. The world is full of crappy developers, don't blame the device for them.

As for the Video itself, Flash 9 and Flash 10 support the SAME video codecs, nothing added or removed. There is no video that requires Flash 10. Surely, Flash 10.1 would be nice because it can utilize hardware acceleration of some chipsets, but apart from that Flash 10 adds nothing to the game when it comes to video.

[GID123]

Maybe someone knows the answer or is having the same problem...I am able to play video from most websites, however CNN video do not play they just show a blank screen...help please.

[zwer]

CNN's site is god-awful, it utilizes tons of JavaScript for the simplest of things and one of those is the player (and it even crashed my desktop FF once, which didn't happen to me in a very long time). They actually think they are protecting their video content that way (loading core player, then getting the video links through JS) when in fact they are not, but that overhead is enough to kill a weak processor such as ARM Cortex-A8, and it will actually in most cases issue 'web page not responding...' prompt on the N900. In rare cases it will get to the player, but then again the content is encoded in higher resolution than N900 can handle without hardware acceleration, so...

But it's not the fault of Flash Player, it's a fault of CNN's crappy developers. I actually haven't seen that badly organized site for a long time, just went to check out what is the problem. I'd fire any developer that would develop the way cnn.com is developed if he was working in my company.

[jchammons]

Does anyone have an N900 with Flash that can successfully access the microphone and camera?

The settings just claim to not notice the devices. Very disappointing. Any preliminary ideas? The V4L stuff seems to be the same as my other systems (/dev/video0, etc) and so I don't yet see any reason why Flash shouldn't detect the devices. Perhaps that feature is intentionally disabled? I will be looking into this.

[sjgadsby]

Perhaps that feature is intentionally disabled?

Bingo (https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1889#c17).
....

[jchammons]

@sjgadsby: Thanks. I should have found that before. Very disappointing. As I've said elsewhere, I'd like to see Adobe made irrelevant.

[gerbick]

What video you cannot watch because you don't have 10.1 on your N900. Think carefully what you'll answer...

Hulu. And I blame their developers because there's absolutely nothing that warranted that move to FP 10.

[zwer]

Does anyone have an N900 with Flash that can successfully access the microphone and camera?

The settings just claim to not notice the devices. Very disappointing. Any preliminary ideas? The V4L stuff seems to be the same as my other systems (/dev/video0, etc) and so I don't yet see any reason why Flash shouldn't detect the devices. Perhaps that feature is intentionally disabled? I will be looking into this.

I wrote this little thing (http://www.topflashers.com/maemo/webapps/mictest/) for microphone test when I was on a hunt for the perfect N900 as I wanted to test if the microphone works on the spot (there were some reports that it was not working for some people) and with a concern that shop clerks won't let me install additional software or put my SIM card in the device - having a Flash player was the perfect way to check if it works.

And indeed, microphone in Flash does work - but partly, at least without connecting it to a FMS or equivalent on the back (haven't tested it, tho) - it will detect whether you allowed Flash to access the microphone and that it's not muted (green line), or not (red line), and it will list it in the Settings pane (Linux microphone). However, it appears that Flash gets no activity level from the microphone. Check the same link on your desktop to get the idea.

As for the camera being disabled for security reasons, I call BS on that one - you would still need to allow Flash to access the camera, on per-site basis at that, just like on the desktop, so I don't see how disabling the camera all together increases security.

[Tejs]

Hi,

I wrote to Nokia about the 10.1 update for the N900.
The message reads:

"Hej Tejs Tak for din interesse i Nokia Care kundesupport. Ja, Nokia N900 og andre smartphones kommer til at understøtte Flash version 10.1. N900 skulel gerne på nuværende tidspunkt understøtte version 10.1"

It's danish and directly translates to:

"Hi Tejs,

Thank you for your interest in Nokia Care Customersupport.
Yes, the Nokia N900 and other smartphones will be supporting Flash version 10.1.
N900 should already support version 10.1."

I'm not really sure about the last part but I take it as a sign of Flash 10.1 coming to the N900

[shadowjk]

What does the "gerne" qualifier mean in danish there? :)

[Tejs]

The phrase: "skulle gerne" can be translated to "should". So it leaves some uncertainty about the last part of flash 10.1 already running on the N900 and I'm pretty sure the supportguy is wrong on that point. He seems pretty confident in his statement about it comming to the N900 though.

[Rushmore]

What video you cannot watch because you don't have 10.1 on your N900. Think carefully what you'll answer, there are people that actually know a bit on how Flash video works and what are the differences between various Flash player versions.

While you are at it, since it is a basic function, name one production device that has FP 10.1 atm. I'm almost certain that it will come for the N900. Actually, name one device with a cell radio that has Flash (full version) at all. Any version.

My M11x does ;)

Well, ok, I tether using my G1, but 10.1 beta works GREAT with the Nvidia 335m :) Then again, the M11 will not fit in my pocket.

If you go to the actual Adobe Flash forums, they mention the requirement is either the ompap3 or snapdragon since both have dedicated GPU's. N900 has been mentioned a few times in conferences. Why is there any doubt it is coming to the N900?

[Tejs]

There are two main reason that makes me fear we won't have flash 10 on the n900:

1. No official statement from Nokia

2. Because of Meego, I guess N900 is the last and only Nokia running Maemo 5 - why develope for a dead platform?

[dglent]

i need the new flash 10 to see tv from here : http://www.skai.gr/player/tvlive/

it works only with 10 version

[maxximuscool]

There are two main reason that makes me fear we won't have flash 10 on the n900:

1. No official statement from Nokia

2. Because of Meego, I guess N900 is the last and only Nokia running Maemo 5 - why develope for a dead platform?

Yeah that's the main problem after they announced MeeGo. Flash10.1 is already made and tested on N900 but i think Adobe still holding on to it until Nokia made their final decision on the N900 future. If Nokia said N900 will get it then they will talk to Adobe. But right now Nokia keeping it silent, may be they want to surprise us?

[shadowjk]

There are two main reason that makes me fear we won't have flash 10 on the n900:

1. No official statement from Nokia

2. Because of Meego, I guess N900 is the last and only Nokia running Maemo 5 - why develope for a dead platform?

There's nothing that revolutionary about MeeGo. Maemo 5 would have evolved into Maemo 6 anyway, regardless of MeeGo. What has changed is that Maemo 6 will be rebranded as MeeGo, and what would have become Maemo 7 will be a full MeeGo install instead.

Nokia never announces dates or details of upcoming firmware releases, unless it's a big change for developers, which flash isn't (as flash 10 would still run flash 9 content), so I would not exacpect any statements from Nokia on the matter.

[*Sonic*]

Isnt there meant to be a 10.5 version of Flash due out soon that is more designed for Mobile Devices

I dont know how much truth there is in that but it came about during a conversation with a Web Designer / Developer

[stlpaul]

10.1 is in beta testing, from there I guess it is in Nokia's hands. Probably we'll see it in the firmware update following the non-beta release of Flash 10.1. Maybe PR1.3 or something like this...

[Texrat]

There are two main reason that makes me fear we won't have flash 10 on the n900:

1. No official statement from Nokia

2. Because of Meego, I guess N900 is the last and only Nokia running Maemo 5 - why develope for a dead platform?

John Loughney of Nokia just stated on meego-dev list that Flash 10.1 is coming to Nokia products at some point in 2010. I am fairly confident this includes N900, which does not become "dead" simply due to MeeGo. I wish everyone would get off that idea.

[Tejs]

John Loughney of Nokia just stated on meego-dev list that Flash 10.1 is coming to Nokia products at some point in 2010. I am fairly confident this includes N900, which does not become "dead" simply due to MeeGo. I wish everyone would get off that idea.

I never statet that the N900 is dead - but officially Maemo 5 is dying as there won't be any more maemo 5 devices (it is of course still alive and kicking as long as the community is and for the N900 as a device there is still hope it will be able to run meego).
But if Adobe Flash 5 is developed for maemo 5 it will be for the N900 and nothing else and one could fear that Adobe wouldn't bother spending time/money on such a narrow market.

Thankfully it seems it is now fully in Nokia's hands and they seem to be able and willing to release Flash 10 for the N900.

[zwer]

Do you even realize how similar are Maemo (Fremantle, Harmattan) and MeeGo platforms - that much that the next Maemo (Harmattan) will be called MeeGo even tho it is not (no Moblin merged into it)?

When it comes to Adobe, those two platforms are the same - at worst they would just need to repackage their plugin, which is trivial. Both platforms are running the same core OS (Linux), both are using the same X Window System (X.Org), both are using browsers compatible with the Netscape plugin system (most Gecko and Webkit based browsers have a native support for that), so for Adobe it is the same platform. Just like they are not writing separate plugins for Ubuntu, Fedora Core, OpenSuSE, PCLinuxOS... Actually, most of the work they've done on the desktop plugins' outer layer (browser hooks, drawing to framebuffer etc.) is directly portable (as in no additional code required) to the Maemo/MeeGo platform due to both of them being essentially GNU/Linux platforms - that is why the first Flash Player 10.1 plugin on a mobile device was demoed on an N900! There is no easier platform for Adobe to develop than Maemo/MeeGo when it comes to hand-held devices. Unfortunately, we are the victims of the Android platform popularity, which takes a huge amount of resources at Adoe to make it work as it should (Dalvik is a bi*ch and a resource hog), thus pushing the Maemo/MeeGo plugin in the low-priority zone, otherwise we'd already have it on our N900s (although Nokia has a role in that as well - as I've mentioned before, to best of my knowledge N900s Flash Player 10.1 is already finished and it is between Nokia and Adobe to decide when we will get it).

What is of concern to Adobe are the possible hardware differences. But even that area is almost a no-issue as they've already developed cores for both, ARMEL and x86 platforms, and developed acceleration hooks for most of the mobile GPUs, and given that Nokia has announced that the N900 successor will be essentially the same at the core level (OMAP 3430) making it work on the N900, even if N900 doesn't get an official Harmattan/MeeGo update, would be, as I said, at worst a matter of repackaging the plugin.

[tomaszrybak]

I would hope to get flash 10 on n900 rather soon - even Nokia releases videos requiring v10: http://qt.nokia.com/developer/learning/online/talks/archive . And since I got n900 I do not want to sit in front of the computer to watch some movies - even about programming topics! Yeah, this device makes me really lazy ;-)

[maxximuscool]

I would hope to get flash 10 on n900 rather soon - even Nokia releases videos requiring v10: http://qt.nokia.com/developer/learning/online/talks/archive . And since I got n900 I do not want to sit in front of the computer to watch some movies - even about programming topics! Yeah, this device makes me really lazy ;-)

Yes I'm second that. My computers also getting really lazy lately too. We should I said this past few months my Computers hardly working hard lol. It is always off and just do the dust collecting. Would love to have flash10 on it though. It would make my Desktop and laptop on holiday earlier and more than now.

[chowdahhead]

When Adobe compiles an i386 or AMD64 shared object for the PC, it works pretty much regardless of kernel version or distribution. It should work the same way for ARMEL, again whether you have a droid or n900. It may not require an glES2 gpu either. So if Meego gets it, I imagine the n900 inherits it as well.

[Tejs]

It is not that I don't realize that the two platforms are alike (almost the same). I have just had some bad experiences when it comes to expecting things to be developed for a platform.
One example is Divxplayer/coreplayer for S60v5.
Coreplayer and Divxplayer has been available for S60v3 for a long time and when I bought my Nokia 5800 I and just about everyone else figured it would simply be a matter of time before S60v5 versions were released as S60v3 and S60v5 are basically the same - but a year later there are still no working divxplayer for the s60v5 platform. Sometimes the obvious just doesn't happen.
Another example was when I bought the Nokia 7710 – a lot of promise but that was just about it.
I'm not saying that I don't think Flash 10 will come to the N900. I strongly believe so and as I wrote earlier there isn't much that indicates it shouldn't, - but you asked why some of us fear it won't be and I tried to explain.
Over time I've just come to realize that in this fast spinning world nothing’s ever a sure deal and any expectation can lead to disappointment.

[Venemo]

Actually, the term "MeeGo" is just a (very stupid) marketing decision, that's all for now.
And it will be compatible with the N900, also.

[amiraseri]

It's almost end of Q1 2010. When exactly is the roll out date for the N900?

Cant wait :)

[Elhana]

use search before hitting new thread button

[cddiede]

It's almost end of Q1 2010. When exactly is the roll out date for the N900?

Cant wait :)

You don't really think that there's anyone on this forum that knows the answer to this, do you?

It's all in Adobe/Nokia's court now. At this point they're certainly not obligated to release it at all, but since we know it's done and works we can only pray that they do so in a timely manner.

Of course they could decide not to release it at all and there wouldn't be so much as a press release telling us to stop waiting for it.

That's just the way it is with proprietary software....

[gianni_mar]

tomorrow when you get the 1.2 firmware, you will have flash 10.1

[jsa]

tomorrow when you get the 1.2 firmware, you will have flash 10.1

Unless you actually know that, please don't make statements like this. Because there's no clear indication anywhere that PR 1.2 will be released tomorrow, much less that it actually includes any Flash updates. You're just setting people up for disappointment.

[Dave999]

tomorrow when you get the 1.2 firmware, you will have flash 10.1

also...its not fools day yet :)

[SAABoy]

tomorrow when you get the 1.2 firmware, you will have flash 10.1

yea what the heck, man...

[cddiede]

tomorrow when you get the 1.2 firmware, you will have flash 10.1

I thought this was funny....

[devu]

I am really surprise of you guys here! Information is floating everywhere, the point is to get it out from the rubbish around ;).

Did you hear about Open Screen Project?

http://www.openscreenproject.org/

Led by Adobe and one of the KEY partner of this is Nokia, just click on the partners section to see how big this project is.

Take a look closer here

http://www.openscreenproject.org/developers/get_started.html

Look at the bottom of the page.

Are you still going to speculate is Flash 10.1 will be available on your n900? don't worry, will be for sure and even if not directly from Nokia you can go to Adobe.com and download as normal people always do.

Can't you see how big potential this project has?
If Flash web based/ desktop based (Adobe AIR) applications going to be usefull on this device and many others can't you see that number of already existing applications no really matter? How quickly you can develop some simple good looking and useful application in Flash?

Have a look:

www.flashonmobile.co.uk

I'm a flash developer interested in flash on mobile devices and already running this project. It took me 3 days to get this working on my n900 and this is still Flash 9! Proof of concept only, that flash can be useful. This stuff is not even optimized properly yet. With Flash 10.1 this kind of things can run video steaming, feed content from may web services, can be fully customizable etc. There is a tones of possibilities and the most important thing:Thousands of hundreds developers in Flash community able to get the same number of application very quickly working. That's the deal. No one will tell us that iPhone or Android has more content available. No offense to any platform. My point is when you have wider selection of apps you can for sure find something interesting for yourself.

Flash and Maemo developers should join forces. Stop anti-flash propaganda because most of bullshits came from past 6 years and fully GPU Flash Player is going to kill the last ;).

By the way, I'll be very happy to hear your feedback regarding to this.

Edit: As far as I remember no one mentioned about Q1 2010 and I'm following this subject from very beginning. Adobe on labs has announced 1st HALF of 2010, so... 3 months left in the worst case scenario.

Enjoy your n900!
Dan

[buurmas]

I appreciate hearing out OpenScreenProject, and maybe it will have promise for cross-platform mobile friendly development. The site is flashy, and your Flaemo site is neat as well.

However, I must say I can't get exited about it.

I am an N810 owner. I bought a device that supported Flash (9). Now I'm being told that I won't get Flash 10 b/c the device's processor can't handle it. Meanwhile, site after site has been disallowing Flash 9. Great. Even when I have been able to access Flash video, it has often been frustratingly slow on my device. Flash games are frequently too slow even on low quality mode and the controls are frequently not well suited for touchscreen devices (e.g., keyboard controls in an awkward position, requires mouse hovering).

OK, so maybe I have a device that's too slow. Maybe things are better for the N900, at least on the performance front. And maybe the open screen project will help with the "touchscreen-friendly" part. But N900 owners have been experiencing the same thing of getting locked out of Flash-enabled sites while waiting for the ARM version, as you can see from this thread.

All of this rather sours one's perspective.

[Flandry]

I appreciate hearing out OpenScreenProject, and maybe it will have promise for cross-platform mobile friendly development. The site is flashy, and your Flaemo site is neat as well.

However, I must say I can't get exited about it.

I am an N810 owner. I bought a device that supported Flash (9). Now I'm being told that I won't get Flash 10 b/c the device's processor can't handle it. Meanwhile, site after site has been disallowing Flash 9. Great. Even when I have been able to access Flash video, it has often been frustratingly slow on my device. Flash games are frequently too slow even on low quality mode and the controls are frequently not well suited for touchscreen devices (e.g., keyboard controls in an awkward position, requires mouse hovering).

OK, so maybe I have a device that's too slow. Maybe things are better for the N900, at least on the performance front. And maybe the open screen project will help with the "touchscreen-friendly" part. But N900 owners have been experiencing the same thing of getting locked out of Flash-enabled sites while waiting for the ARM version, as you can see from this thread.

All of this rather sours one's perspective.

Understandably.

To put it in a nutshell, Flash is Adobe's cash cow and they've built up enough dependent users and developers that they can dictate the terms. The most direct analogy is the crack dealer who gives out free samples and high payouts to the street dealers, and then tightens the noose when everyone is hooked.

The only real solution is to stop handing them power by not using flash for the many things it shouldn't be used for (and yes, you can apply the crack analogy again to see how many things it shouldn't be used for...anything but reckless and pointless blinginess).

[johnel]

One thing I have always liked about the web is that almost any computer regardless of it's spec can join in the fun.

You can still browse the web using a text-based browser because the requirements are so low.

All the protocols on the Internet are open and patent-free, nobody can claim ownership.

The problems with Flash is that it is still a proprietory plugiin, closed-source and restrictive licensing.

Until this changes completely then I would rather avoid flash.

Even Microsoft's Silverlight is more open than Adobe's flash plugin.

[johnel]

Does this mean that it is possible for companies or developers to distribute Flash Player within their product offerings?
Adobe has removed the restrictions on the SWF and FLV/F4V specifications, not on Flash Player itself. Future versions starting with the next major versions of Flash Player and AIR for devices are royalty free as part of the Open Screen Project. However, a license (contract) still needs to be in place between Adobe and the licensee.

Personally I think Adobe are worried about HTML 5 and Silverlight.

These days Flash is mostly used as an online video player - HTML 5 basically makes the Flash player redundant.

Silverlight is Microsoft's answer to Flash and is more open too.
Moonlight is the open-source equivalent of Silverlight and is running on Linux.

Even if Flash does become more open as with Moonlight, then alternate implementations will always lag behind.
Also the possibility of "Embrace, Extend & Extinguish" rears it's ugly head again.

The Internet and specifically the world-wide web must be built on truly open standards - it's one of the reasons why the Internet is so popular - No single entity can control it.

[devu]

Personally I think Adobe are worried about HTML 5 and Silverlight.


I disagree, google up some comparisons in many areas not only video Flash in RIA still is the winner.


These days Flash is mostly used as an online video player - HTML 5 basically makes the Flash player redundant.


This is a big deal but not only one. Check the 3 videos on my website (http://www.flaemo.com/test) , just slide screen to the right ;)


Silverlight is Microsoft's answer to Flash and is more open too.
Moonlight is the open-source equivalent of Silverlight and is running on Linux.


Flash as Action Script is open from hmm.. 4 years?
Personally I am using Open source Flex SDK and FlashDevelop. As assets using swc libraries. I completely forgotten how Flash IDE interface looks like.


Even if Flash does become more open as with Moonlight, then alternate implementations will always lag behind.
Also the possibility of "Embrace, Extend & Extinguish" rears it's ugly head again.


GPU acceleration will make AS3 language the fastest language of the web. It;s shame tat so many ppl still believe in urban legends.
The fact is 70% of tasks are related with visual objects rendered by processor, 20% business logic, 10% listeners. That how at the moment looks power distribution if you need to develop something in flash. Think about it what happens if I can get those 70% extra ;)


The Internet and specifically the world-wide web must be built on truly open standards - it's one of the reasons why the Internet is so popular - No single entity can control it.

I agree, and no matter how corporations will try shout our mouths up, there are always kitchen doors to freedom ;) Technology is in our hands. The most important thing is to be OPEN itself. See possibilities and dangers. The way how Apple for example behave on the mobile market looks for me like flash back from 1983 when Microsoft destroyed couple of good inventions because of that.

Now it's big war going on between Apple and Flash. They banned even Flash-to-iPhone compilers. (Flash guys founded the way around how to develop some app on IShit ;) )

For me Flash is only way to stop their practices. Silverligt will die as soon as many developers supporting this technology. In this case I am strongly disagree Silverlight is open. All part of the technology are base on Microsoft solutions. Even instead using XML they have UML or something. don't tell me it's fair game. .NET behind ehh..

Anyway... I am flash developer but I am not blind. I'm happy with Flash Platform as long as Adobe will not be like M$ or Apple. And as long as we have competition on the market is good for all of us.. customers, at least. so.. keep them all alive :)

[zwer]

To put it in a nutshell, Flash is Adobe's cash cow and they've built up enough dependent users and developers that they can dictate the terms. The most direct analogy is the crack dealer who gives out free samples and high payouts to the street dealers, and then tightens the noose when everyone is hooked.

... except in this case you don't have to pay a single cent to the crack dealer to continue enjoying your 'addiction', and the chemical formula of the drug is free and publicly available, even the process of creating it is mostly well documented, so if you wish you can cook it by yourself... And, as much as I don't like the idea of a single dealer behind the whole drug production, in many cases it's less of a health risk than puffing the street crack cooked in some dirty bathtub that in dependence of your metabolism may wreck a havoc to your system, or work way slower than you'd like, or may not work at all... Of course, just like with any other drug, it shouldn't be abused... That's as far as analogies go...

The problems with Flash is that it is still a proprietory plugiin, closed-source and restrictive licensing.

The problem with Flash, in this case, is that you don't have a faintest idea of what you are talking about, yet you try to bash it based on FUD that's been steadily and mainly spread by Apple fanbois since the iPhone (and rest of the iDon'tCare technologies) was announced to have no Flash plugin. Sour grapes in a nutshell. What's even funnier is that people obsessed with the most draconian company in the history of computing, when it comes to licensing and control, start complaining that other technologies are not as open as they'd like. So, let me correct that one for you:

1) The SWF file format has been open since the 2000 (I wrote a .swf compiler in 2000), or maybe even before that as I can't remember correctly when was the switch from the old FutureSplash format into a new Flash, SWF based format. You can read the most recent format specs @ http://www.adobe.com/devnet/swf/pdf/swf_file_format_spec_v10.pdf

2) Flash Player was closed source and under restrictive licensing until Adobe acquired Macromedia, at least for regular people - companies could purchase the source (for $10k IRRC) under restrictive licensing if they wanted to adapt the Flash Player to their platform. Even in those days were some 3rd party Flash Player completely independent of Macromedia but they were nowhere near feature-complete or widely spread as Macromedia's solution.

Flash Player today is mainly open-source, sans the codecs (MP3, On2 VP6, H.264...) and several other technologies that are not owned by Adobe but are licensed from 3rd parties, and thus Adobe cannot open them. That's the same reason why you cannot consider Google Chrome an open-source browser - yes it's based on the open-source Chromium (http://code.google.com/chromium/) (and by that chain on WebKit) but you can't get the licensed H.264 decoder and several other things (hardware video acceleration based on closed-source drivers from the manufacturers for example). About 80% of today's Flash Player is its ActionScript Virtual Machine 2 (AVM2) which was completely open almost from the day one, and publicly available via the project Tamarin (http://www.mozilla.org/projects/tamarin/). The rest of the specific implementations (i.e. PixelBender) can be acquired via the Adobe Open Source (http://opensource.adobe.com/) and Adobe Labs (http://labs.adobe.com/).

3) The Flash compiler used by Adobe IDEs (Flash/Flex Builder and Flash CS*) is also free and open-source and is called Flex SDK (http://opensource.adobe.com/wiki/display/flexsdk/Flex+SDK). Apart from the compilers and other tools, it includes the complete Flex Framework (components, skins, additional builders, etc.) as well, needed for easy and hassle-free fast deployment of RIAs and AIR applications.

4) There is not a single line in EULA/TOA/TOS of free Adobe tools and technologies that even vaguely restricts you to do whatever you want with their sources and tools. As long as you are not selling them, of course.

5) Adobe went even a step further opening all the proprietary protocols as well - namely RTMP that was the thing selling their Adobe Media Server - and that had to be previously hacked by reverse engineering to get a free Flash streaming via the quite popular OS media server - Red5 (http://code.google.com/p/red5/).

6) Flash as a technology/platform is as open as Sun's Java is. And in some extent even more (at least they give you the source used in their own VM and completely open-source compilers, not just the documentation and format specification).

7) .NET, and thus inherently the Silverlight platform, is closed-source in all aspects except the format specs, which allowed enthusiasts to develop Moonlight based on that. That's the same situation Flash was in about 4 years ago, before the move to AVM2 and Flex SDK (Flash 8 and earlier versions), where there were at least two quite successful projects based solely on the format specifications - MTASC (http://osflash.org/mtasc) compiler and the haXe (http://haxe.org/) platform. There are tons of other OS projects based on the SWF/FLV/F4V formats and technologies that you can check at Open Source Flash (http://www.osflash.org/) portal. Since Adobe opened most of the Flash platform, hundreds of new projects arrived.

It doesn't hurt to know a thing or two behind a technology you wish to make bold claims against...

[CormacB]

6) Flash as a technology/platform is as open as Sun's Java is. And in some extent even more (at least they give you the source used in their own VM and completely open-source compilers, not just the documentation and format specification).

The Java VM and tools are open source these days.

[zwer]

OpenJDK != Sun Java JDK, at least that was the situation last time I checked. There are still several components not released to the public, but Sun's effort is nonetheless praiseworthy. Since Sun is behind the OpenJDK project, you are technically correct - they did release the tools and the VM as open-source, just not the `original` thing - where Adobe released Flex SDK that is their main toolchain used by their own IDEs (there is no `commercial Flex SDK` and `OpenFlexSDK`).

It's a matter of semantics, I didn't mean to say that Java is closed-source or restricted in any way, far from it. I'd take it even a step further and speculate that Adobe would never open the Flash platform as they did if Sun didn't make the first move.

[HugoSon]

...according to appleinsider.com. Ok - bad news for us waiting to get it - but may help Nokia to finally ship PR1.2.

[bandora]

What does flash 10.1 got to do with PR1.2?

[vietn900]

another guessing game :D

[HugoSon]

...most of us - from what I could read here - were hoping to get it with PR1.2. And (yes: rumor again) it was said to be one of the reasons PR1.2 taking some time to be released.
At least this is clear now: no Flash 10.1 in PR1.2 - hopeing it will be released within the month of April...

[bandora]

and what.. I still don't understand the relationship between Nokia updates and adobe software...

[vietn900]

well it will come eventually

Proof: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pee3nT4bPw4

just wait...

[eikido]

This is the beginning to Flash's death. The late release of 10.1 for all platforms, including Windows.

[devu]

and what.. I still don't understand the relationship between Nokia updates and adobe software...

I couldn't run Flaemo (http://www.flaemo.com/test)project and become N900 owner without ensure Flash 10.1 will be available on this device. This video is 6month old and everyone in Flash community know that stuff watching it twice per day :D.

But also I can't see any connection with N900 firmware. All flash players always had being shipped as independent package for any platform. The only reason can be that there is more magic required to install it but personally I'll be disappointment if that's true.

P.S. Don't forget Flash 10.1 means Flash AIR run-time as well.

EDIT:


This is the beginning to Flash's death. The late release of 10.1 for all platforms, including Windows.

Please... It wasn't first time Adobe delaying public release. But they have many good reasons for that. Information floating around in Flash community. Stop repeat iShit fun boys propaganda.

[HugoSon]

and what.. I still don't understand the relationship between Nokia updates and adobe software...

I think all mobile platforms will do some "optimizing" to get most out of it without killing their battery life time. And from a release management point of view - up to now a new Flash player version (look at Symbian) has always been included into a (new) "firmware" package.
Anyway - the delay is a sad news but a fact.

[gerbick]

Pretty ballsy to predict the fall of Adobe Flash due to a delay for a dot revision of the Flash Player. I know that it means that they tweaked the living daylights of the memory usage, what not (I'm an Adobe Flex dev) but to be honest Nokia has bigger problems... like the still unclear upgrade path to deal with.

And look at the announcement again. Maemo/MeeGo is not listed.

Adobe CEO Shantanu Narayen, in an interview with FOX Business, has revealed that flash 10.1 support for WebOS and BlackBerry phones would arrive slightly later than expected in the second half of 2010.

The statement around "business" instead of "technical" was also made by the Adobe CEO is sorta odd too. Anyway, the death of Flash has been predicted many times over.

Still waiting.

[devu]

Flash 10.1 is Mobile "optimizing" version of Flash 10 ([edit:] itself), that's why is not Flash 11 ;)

[gerbick]

Flash 10.1 is Mobile "optimizing" version of Flash 10, that's why is not Flash 11

Quite wrong. Flash 10.1 is an optimized version of their Flash Player on all platforms, including mobile too. This is a time where all versions of the Flash Player will have a certain parity that was lacking before.

You can get Flash Player 10.1 for your PC right now - http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/flashplayer10/

[pantera1989]

Quite wrong. Flash 10.1 is an optimized version of their Flash Player on all platforms, including mobile too. This is a time where all versions of the Flash Player will have a certain parity that was lacking before.

You can get Flash Player 10.1 for your PC right now - http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/flashplayer10/

You're wrong too. Flash Player is the next PR 1.2. I am soon expecting a 100 page thread speculating about its release.

[gerbick]

Your proof? Links to idle speculation will be overlooked.

[HugoSon]

Quite wrong. Flash 10.1 is an optimized version of their Flash Player on all platforms, including mobile too. This is a time where all versions of the Flash Player will have a certain parity that was lacking before.

You can get Flash Player 10.1 for your PC right now - http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/flashplayer10/

Try to be precise with such statements - you can get/download the "release candidate" which has nothing go to do with a FINAL version (which obviously won’t come before the second half of 2010) and should be used for testing/development purposes only.

[gerbick]

Correction noted.

But the fact stands, 10.1 will exist very soon; Flash Player 11 isn't even part of the forthcoming Adobe CS5 release (I beta tested that too) and it's not just for mobile optimization; it's about optimization.

And it'll be delayed. And if it's part of PR1.2; I want proof.

[pantera1989]

Your proof? Links to idle speculation will be overlooked.

What I meant was the Flash 10.1 will be treated like PR 1.2 and not that it will be included in PR 1.2. People will soon start 100-page threads speculating when Flash 10.1 will be released like the current thread about PR 1.2.

[devu]

Ok I wasn't precise forgot to ad "Itself".
No doubt Flash is cross platform tech and I see your point that someone could get me like Flash 10.1 is another one Flash lite or something...

It's cool I am dealing with betas from half an year but it's pretty useless for me to prepare something for Tap, Gestures, GPS, accelerometer and all of this cool things because I have no chance to test it on N900. But I am sure they have some version for this platform if they working on it. Any chance to get even beta here?

[gerbick]

What I meant was the Flash 10.1 will be treated like PR 1.2 and not that it will be included in PR 1.2. People will soon start 100-page threads speculating when Flash 10.1 will be released like the current thread about PR 1.2.

I totally misread that.

The speculation could be stopped with something that is quite simple. Not even the desktop is ready to ship. So the mobile versions are also forthcoming.

But I get where you're coming from. I put my vote on gremlins. They're to blame.

[buurmas]

zwer, you make good arguments. Sadly, it doesn't seem to change the fact that Flash is a technology that will make my NIT less and less useful over time.

Although, to be fair, I'm starting to wonder if the same is true of JavaScript, now that desktop browsers today have JavaScript optimization and my NIT's doesn't AFAIK. Same thing with HTML5.

[Dave999]

Flash 10.1 seems to be far away...and even longer for Maemo/Meego.

http://translate.google.se/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=sv&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mobil.se%2Farticles%2FAdobe-soker-beta-testare-av-Flash-1.345331.html&sl=sv&tl=en

[jim_0068]

CEO has it wrong, keep the faith:

http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/19/adobe-says-no-delays-to-flash-10-1-ceo-was-just-talking-hardwar/

[HugoSon]

Yesterday appleinsider.com (http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=50433) reported that "Adobe slips mobile Flash 10.1 to second half of 2010" - now we can read on phonescoop.com that it is still on track for the first half of 2010 ("..."Adobe is still on track making Flash Player 10.1 for first mobile platforms including Android available before the end of the first half of 2010." Comments recently made by Adobe CEO Shantanu Narayen have been misinterpreted. ...")

Source: http://www.phonescoop.com/news/item.php?n=5835

So - chances "might" be back to have Flash 10.1 within PR1.2 (if Nokia is willing/able to bundle it with a - the next - public release).

[maxximuscool]

mate you're dreaming.

[HugoSon]

mate you're dreaming.

Yes - I am :D

[maxximuscool]

Yes - I am :D

No 2 good things come from Nokia at the same time. Just the PR1.2 is probably out of our reach already. Not to mention they would give a damn about flash 10.1 right now. They are too busy with MeeGo development. Nokia already cut down the size of he Maemo team. Full force toward MeeGo release date!

[jsa]

I don't think we'll be seeing Flash 10.1 in PR1.2. From what I've read, it adds a lot of stuff, including mobile-related features. There is probably a lot more to making it work than meets the eye and I don't think Nokia or Adobe or anyone are withholding it on purpose, it's just not ready yet.

For example things like this quote from release notes on why H.264 acceleration is only available on Windows: In Flash Player 10.1, H.264 hardware acceleration is not supported under Linux and Mac OS. Linux currently lacks a developed standard API that supports H.264 hardware video decoding, and Mac OS X does not expose access to the required APIs.

The fragmentation is probably much worse on mobile software and hardware platforms, it's not a case of just dropping a binary in. It includes drivers, required middleware and APIs, Flash supporting those etc. I'm far from expert on this but I'm just trying to say it probably takes a lot more work than most here seem to think.

No 2 good things come from Nokia at the same time. Just the PR1.2 is probably out of our reach already. Not to mention they would give a damn about flash 10.1 right now. They are too busy with MeeGo development. Nokia already cut down the size of he Maemo team. Full force toward MeeGo release date!

Can we get past this FUD already? Quim has repeatedly said that MeeGo and Maemo 5 are developed by dedicated teams that aren't tied to each others' resources or schedules. Besides, if they get Flash 10.1 working for Maemo 5, you're pretty much set for (Nokia's) MeeGo supporting it too.

[Flandry]

... except in this case you don't have to pay a single cent to the crack dealer to continue enjoying your 'addiction', and the chemical formula of the drug is free and publicly available, ...


The price paid is in the decrease in performance for computers because of the proliferation of inefficient bloated script-based software. Flash is not the only culprit here, just one of the most obvious and successful.

The rest of the information was very useful. I have not been able to follow the computer industry tech news for a long time. Back when i developed my prejudices against flash and Adobe, things were very different.

[Rushmore]

I know the N900 was shown with it, but no discussions about a release in Adobe forums. Only renewed talk about Android during summer with 2.2 update and a beta 10.1 out ahead of that. WP7 also getting when first device launches.

3430 is a supported chipset, but no specific mention of Maemo- just the two OS's above.

Has Meego focus caused a change in plans?

[mayfairman]

I have just scooted by the Adobe Labs, and they have announced a mailling list for the Android 10.1 beta:-

https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/entitlement/index.cfm?e=labs_flashplayer10_android_signup

Will this be compatible with Maemo / easy to port when it becomes live?

Thanks

[mayfairman]

I have just scooted by the Adobe Labs, and they have announced a mailling list for the Android 10.1 beta:-

https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/entitlement/index.cfm?e=labs_flashplayer10_android_signup

Will this be compatible with Maemo / easy to port when it becomes live?

Thanks

This is what I get when I sign up -
Thank you for your interest in the Adobe® Flash® Player 10.1 beta for the Android operating system. The beta release will be available later this year.

Could be a fair wait yet!

[attila77]

The worst thing is that Maemo might be a collateral to this Apple-Adobe feud. Adobe, being repeatedly kicked in the nose by Apple, dedicated itself to Apple's current worst enemy - Android. From a development point of view, the N900 is waaaay easier to do Flash than any other mobile platform (since from Adobe's perspective it's basically a straight ARM port of the linux variant of Flash), and while we SHOULD get it first, I'm just afraid that Adobe business policies combined with Nokia's release cycles will not necessarily result in a speedy release of 10.1 for Maemo.

[RafaLL92]

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d17/zimsik/n900flash.jpg

[Catacylsm]

I never hve problems with flash... and the N900 definately doesnt have problems with it,

I still hope the new update comes, really just for the hardware support.

[sophocha]

Flash 10.1 IS coming to Meego, so you can either dual boot when Meego is out or wait for PR 1.3 which I guess it WILL have Flash 10.1 ( probably after the N8 and N9 come out.Nokia won`t give us Flash 10.1 before the N8 and N9 because it`s going to hurt their sellings).....until then enjoy your device!

[ddalex]

Flash 10.1 for N900 will be available, maybe not at the same time as android, but at the same time as the Linux version. I think it doesn't require very hard work to port from the desktop Linux version a Maemo compile.

[vitaminj]

I share the concerns of Rushmore about Adobe's silence re the N900 since That Video vs. their harping on recently about Android and WebOS, but today Kevin Lynch mentioned Nokia in a blog post (http://blogs.adobe.com/conversations/2010/04/moving_forward.html). So that's positive. I think.

[Andre Klapper]

I don't think that a maemo.org forum knows more than an Adobe forum as it's totally up to Adobe?

[buurmas]

Dup with:
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=37922

[sjgadsby]

The thread "Maemo still getting Flash 10.1?" with eight posts has been merged into this thread.

[mu-min_83]

Just to let you know their is a possibility that Flash 10.1 is coming to Maemo 5 in June. This is not a rumour or gossip it was officially mentioned by Kevin Lynch, Adobe's chief technology officer...while he he was responding to the latest nonsense from Steve Jobs.

Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/10093314.stm

Ok it does say Android will be getting it slightly earlier (May) but the general release will be in June and hopefully this will include an update for the Maemo/N900. I can't wait :)

Does this mean we will be able to use the graphical hardware capabilities in this version of Adobe Flash? Or am I feeling a bit too optimistic?

[Laughing Man]

If it does come to Maemo (the article just says Nokia) then yes, Flash 10.1 will use GPU acceleration.

[eikido]

f*** flash, adobe and adobes chief. i'm 100% on apples side, working against them. such a bad product that has made so many dependent of it. and then this late release of something that should've been available a long time ago.

[mu-min_83]

f*** flash, adobe and adobes chief. i'm 100% on apples side, working against them. such a bad product that has made so many dependent of it. and then this late release of something that should've been available a long time ago.

I'm not the biggest fan of Flash but you're right we're dependent on it and I think it will be the case for the considerable future unless something radically changes. Apple and Mr Jobs believe they have the best product & ideas and the world should bow down to their technological brilliance (NOT).....not going to happen when some people have vision & dreams of just more then silly apps/gestures...apple fanboys need to switch on the light .

This release is way overdue but as long as we have stable, non buggy and smooth version working alongside Maemo, I don't mind the wait..the same goes with N900 updates. :cool:

[Texrat]

f*** flash, adobe and adobes chief. i'm 100% on apples side, working against them. such a bad product that has made so many dependent of it. and then this late release of something that should've been available a long time ago.

Apple hopes to kill Flash and replace it with something fundamentally no different, but under THEIR control.

You're just changing masters, that's all.

[mu-min_83]

Apple hopes to kill Flash and replace it with something fundamentally no different, but under THEIR control.

You're just changing masters, that's all.

Absolutely spot on. They expect us just to only accept Apples but there are many more other fruits in the world. ;)

[Dave999]

Apple hopes to kill Flash and replace it with something fundamentally no different, but under THEIR control.

You're just changing masters, that's all.

Flash is not the future. will be replaced. For me, asap. Html5 can do it in some sense.

[Texrat]

Flash is not the future. will be replaced. For me, asap. Html5 can do it in some sense.

When you factor h.264 and its licensing threat in, what then?

http://www.0xdeadbeef.com/weblog/2010/01/html5-video-and-h-264-what-history-tells-us-and-why-were-standing-with-the-web/

[Laughing Man]

Flash is not the future. will be replaced. For me, asap. Html5 can do it in some sense.

It's not whether Flash will or not be replaced. It will. But it's whether the successor is open to everyone, or will you [indirectly] have to pay license fees.

[chase15]

so if flash 10.1 will be in our device in june.. is this means pr 1.2 will be released in june?? because as what some people said, the flash 10.1 update is going to be with the pr 1.2 update.

[Dave999]

well, flash will not disappear. But we must find a way around it. we will see how the web standards evolve over the next years.

[Laughing Man]

so if flash 10.1 will be in our device in june.. is this means pr 1.2 will be released in june?? because as what some people said, the flash 10.1 update is going to be with the pr 1.2 update.

Don't believe what everyone says. I don't think Flash 10 is included with PR 1.2.

well, flash will not disappear. But we must find a way around it. we will see how the web standards evolve over the next years.

It won't go away fully, but there will be a replacement/successor. But like I said before, it is the WHO is the replacement or successor that matters.

[felbutss]

f*** flash, adobe and adobes chief. i'm 100% on apples side, working against them. such a bad product that has made so many dependent of it. and then this late release of something that should've been available a long time ago.



moving on. i am a flash developer. flash is used for and way more powerful then you think. apple is just ******ed. apple used to be the rebel against the man. now apple is the man


when flash gets the ability to use the GPU fully for mobile device's in 10.1, trust me you will not see a reason to hate it. check out these sites.

http://www.flashearth.com/
http://www.startrekmovie.com/
http://www.incredibox.fr/ -this one is cool. gota check it out if your bored
http://www.dreamofelectricsheep.com/lollipop/ -this one is funny lol
http://www.mono-1.com/monoface/main.html
http://moodstream.gettyimages.com/
http://waterlife.nfb.ca/ -i like this one
http://okaydave.com/
http://www.speakvisual.com/#/spotlight
http://www.sectionseven.com/
http://www.2advanced.com/
http://www.agencynet.com/
http://www.gettheglass.com/





now mr jobs. can you pick one site like the one above made with HTML5????......................................... yeah thought not

[antezz]

moving on. i am a flash developer. flash is used for and way more powerful then you think. apple is just ******ed. apple used to be the rebel against the man. now apple is the man


when flash gets the ability to use the GPU fully for mobile device's in 10.1, trust me you will not see a reason to hate it. check out these sites.

http://www.flashearth.com/
http://www.startrekmovie.com/
http://www.incredibox.fr/ -this one is cool. gota check it out if your bored
http://www.dreamofelectricsheep.com/lollipop/ -this one is funny lol
http://www.mono-1.com/monoface/main.html
http://moodstream.gettyimages.com/
http://waterlife.nfb.ca/ -i like this one
http://okaydave.com/
http://www.speakvisual.com/#/spotlight
http://www.sectionseven.com/
http://www.2advanced.com/
http://www.agencynet.com/
http://www.gettheglass.com/





now mr jobs. can you pick one site like the one above made with HTML5????......................................... yeah thought not

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhMN0wlITLk enough said.. and i HATE websites made in flash its slow and painfull. I do love flash like flash games and such but i dont wanna see fakking websites in full flash it looks like **** and its slow with all effects!

[felbutss]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhMN0wlITLk enough said.. and i HATE websites made in flash its slow and painfull. I do love flash like flash games and such but i dont wanna see fakking websites in full flash it looks like **** and its slow with all effects!

****java is nice isnt it??******any other examples of TRUE HTML 5?? dont show me java. give flash time****

The port is based on the Jake2 project, compiled to Javascript using the Google Web Toolkit (GWT). Jake 2 is a Java port of the original Quake II source code, which was open sourced by id software.

To make the Jake 2 code work with GWT, we have

* Created a new WebGL based renderer
* Ported the network layer for multiplayer games from UDP to the WebSocket API
* Made all resource loading calls asynchronous
* Created a GWT implementation of Java nio buffers based on WebGL arrays (to be ported to ECMAScript Typed Arrays)
* Implemented a simple file system emulation for saving games and preferences using the Web Storage API

[antezz]

****java is nice isnt it??******any other examples of TRUE HTML 5?? dont show me java. give flash time****

The port is based on the Jake2 project, compiled to Javascript using the Google Web Toolkit (GWT). Jake 2 is a Java port of the original Quake II source code, which was open sourced by id software.

To make the Jake 2 code work with GWT, we have

* Created a new WebGL based renderer
* Ported the network layer for multiplayer games from UDP to the WebSocket API
* Made all resource loading calls asynchronous
* Created a GWT implementation of Java nio buffers based on WebGL arrays (to be ported to ECMAScript Typed Arrays)
* Implemented a simple file system emulation for saving games and preferences using the Web Storage API

Websites are not static anymore, in my eye JS is a part of "HTML" even if JS is a scriptlang and HTML is just static code HTML isn't made to be dynamic and therefor saying "Show me a website with HTML5 that can look like this" is just childish i did show you HTML5 + JS can make PC games and now you are like that's not true HTML! Just open your eye and realise JS is walking hand in hand with HTML.

[StOoZ]

i really hope so!! having flash stuff running faster would be great

[felbutss]

what lol i know that. HTML ,java and vbs go hand in hand. i use all of them

but flash has a different place. i would never expect quake 2 to be made in flash but i will never want people to think HTML5 could replace flash. yes a lot of flash sites could just be made with HTML5 ie: youtube but not full blown animated interactive sites or applications. Mr jobs is really just a doosshh baaggg



*** just incase. i mean HTML5 and all the in built other scripting technologies like vbs and js.

[antezz]

java != to javascript... I don't like java i like flash better then java.

And as i said i have nothing against flash i like flash for games and such but for website effects big no no. Then i like jquery (javascript lib) but i hate websites that have to much effects going on like those sites you linked it takes 100 ages to get any information!

[fatalsaint]

I have not met a website built in full flash that I liked.

Ever.

For videos or games, flash is fine. For complete websites... no. That's just my opinion though.

ETA: There's a reason I use flashblock; and only click on the ones I want to see.

[slender]

fatalsaint,
Guess what. Every single person who posts here is in my opinion member of rather small niche group of users. For example how i use and what i want is far far far away from what/how my friends with sht loads of money and too little time to learn any os/app properly have on their hands. They are the ones who decide where we are going. Not me or anyone here who knows how to change directory in xterm.

Just saying that seeing world through your own eyes is normal but sometimes it´s just good to really look what other people do. And i´m not talking about people who know how to install extensions to their firefox.

Here we go:
- We will see HW acceleration for flash in more devices, e.g. tvs
- If developer tools are easy to use
-- also remember that there is huge amount of flash developers in world who have already invested their time and money on that platform
- We will see in future apps on every single platform done thought flash

One thing what i hate in this debate is:
Flash isn't only about h.264 or css+html+js its much more. Sometimes i feel like its so easy to us who know something about computers and gadgets to bash something just because some "demigod" jesus has said something or we have seen problems on our own computer or on our friends computer. Let´s give an example
- I would go crazy if flash ad made my netbooks fan blow
-- What my friends do? They do not even notice it! They do not CARE! And guess why? Because their favorite game/video what ever plays through it. If it´s slow then they buy new computer because computer is slow they do not give rats *** about program. They do not even understand that there is flash..they do not even want to know about that they just want to play that game.

[jakiman]

That's right. better technology doesn't always "win".

Many of my friends, even the geeky linux gurus prefer the iphone over the N900. Weird but true.

Also, most people probably don't know the difference between flash and HTML5 and don't care.
So if flash works for youtube and facebook games, they will use it without a single complaint.

[rickysio]

Duke Flash 10.1 Forever.

That's all I can say about it.

[ed00]

Flash coming to Android thats for sure in a few month http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2010/04/29/live-blogging-the-journals-interview-with-adobe-ceo/ Interview with Adobe CEO regarding Flash and his take on Mr. Egomaniac's letter.

[jakiman]

I guess flash will be available in ALL phones soon except for Apple devices.
Wonder how they will try to get out of that one. Hmm.

[felbutss]

once flash has GPU support i will like to see apples reaction.

[devu]

once flash has GPU support i will like to see apples reaction.

Will be like on Avatar movie ...you should see your faces.. :D

[rickysio]

Remains to see if they will deliver. Flash 10.1 for the desktop is already turning out to be the next GMail - stuck in beta for years?

[kazuki]

watch this, when flash 10.1 is available, we'll be going thru the same thing as pr 1.2, we would have to wait months for nokia to get their act together

[dbs11]

Im using the new Firefox BETA web browser, and when going onto youtube it says i need to download the latest version of Flash - which i can not do because there is no valid version for the browser - so I can not watch YouTube at all!

[Rushmore]

Just to let you know their is a possibility that Flash 10.1 is coming to Maemo 5 in June. This is not a rumour or gossip it was officially mentioned by Kevin Lynch, Adobe's chief technology officer...while he he was responding to the latest nonsense from Steve Jobs.

Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/10093314.stm

Ok it does say Android will be getting it slightly earlier (May) but the general release will be in June and hopefully this will include an update for the Maemo/N900. I can't wait :)

Does this mean we will be able to use the graphical hardware capabilities in this version of Adobe Flash? Or am I feeling a bit too optimistic?


I posted about the N900 issue as well, since NOTHING was mentioned about Maemo or the N900, or Nokia...etc. They talked about Android and WP7 as far as platforms for launch. Unless we are getting the beta, or if the code is portable enough, we may not get Flash 10.1- final release.

Why would we, since Nokia has moved on to other platforms and mainly left Maemo to the community? No problem for me, since I dumped Tmo and now on Verizon. Droid and Incredible are doing just fine :) Not sure which to keep yet.

If we get Flash 10.1 for N900, I will consider it a bonus.

[chowdahhead]

I posted about the N900 issue as well, since NOTHING was mentioned about Maemo or the N900, or Nokia...etc. They talked about Android and WP7 as far as platforms for launch. Unless we are getting the beta, or if the code is portable enough, we may not get Flash 10.1- final release.

Why would we, since Nokia has moved on to other platforms and mainly left Maemo to the community? No problem for me, since I dumped Tmo and now on Verizon. Droid and Incredible are doing just fine :) Not sure which to keep yet.

If we get Flash 10.1 for N900, I will consider it a bonus.

I'm not too familiar with Android's kernel, but for linux in general, Flash is just a shared object. In fact, installation is nothing more than copying the file to some derivation of /usr/lib. Android and Maemo5 are the same build target, so how much extra work and time would be involved for supporting both? Furthermore, Meego and Maemo are even more alike so if Adobe were to "support" Meego, then Maemo would, by extension, be supported as well. Maybe there's much more to this than I'm seeing, and perhaps someone with some Andoid development experience can clear this up.

[skzo]

Flash 10.1 RC for linux still does not offer GPU acceleration support.

source:

http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=ODEyOQ

So, even if flash 10.1 comes out for mobile in june, i am not very hopeful that it will support GPU accel.

This beeing said, I'm quite sure if there is a flash binary for android, it will be easy to install it in maemo...

[sjgadsby]

The following threads have been merged into this thread:
"Adobe slips mobile Flash 10.1 to second half 2010..." with nineteen posts
"'Adobe Has Not Delayed Flash 10.1 At All'" with five posts
"Flash 10.1 coming in June? According to Adobe chief" with thirty-three posts

[SD.]

Flash isn't going anywhere IMO.

HTML5 requires Javascript to do "flashy" stuff, performance is crap and there aren't any GUI tools available. Flash can do a lot more complex logic operations than Javascript. HTML5 isn't standardized yet and updates might take years when Adobe can put out updates whenever they want. Flash also works seamlessly with Illustrator, Photoshop and other Adobe Creative Suite apps.

But the key to Flash's success in the future is that HTML5+Javascript doesn't have any DRM support and probably will never have it. It doesn't have a way to restrict the end user's browser from manipulating the code(i.e. to bypass preroll or overlay ads on videos). You can say you hate ads and DRM all you want but that's the only way you'll be able to watch video streams for free in the future unless all the video sites go to subscription only.

[zwer]

Flash platform has no native, built-in DRM (apart from RTMPE which is not native to the Flash platform but comes from Adobe), if JS interpreters could catch up with AVM2 performance to handle heavy encryption, byte manipulation and connectivity you could write your own DRM-like system in HTML/JS as well. That of course won't happen soon...

Flash is not going anywhere but not because of DRM, but because it outperforms HTML5/JS combo in all the important aspects, both feature and speed wise, except for the video HW acceleration (in selected browsers, that is), which is precisely why Adobe is investing so much resources to bring HW video acceleration to as much platforms as possible.

[SD.]

You're right about the current state of DRM in Flash. Even RTMPE is sort of pseudo-DRM (or the encryption key was cracked). Adobe is no doubt going to improve their DRM in the future to go at Windows Media DRM head on.

Javascript will always be able to be manipulated by the end user though no matter how obfuscated the code is. A good example is how the SkipScreen plugin for Firefox manipulates the javascript on download sites. SWF files aren't invulnerable to the same tactics before they load, but it's a lot harder to manipulate once they're running in the Flash Player

Edit: I guess there's a debug browser plugin available from adobe lol... Things might get very interesting in the future (although end users trying to run the debug plugin might be a bad thing)

[Rushmore]

Why no GPU acceleration in the Maemo version? Same chipset as Droid and it has been shown with GPU support in demonstrations. It will be a tad ironic if Droid and other Android devices have better Flash performance.

One of my main reasons for keeping the N900 was as a micro netbook, but if no GPU support for Flash, Android browser is just as functional for me.

Oh well, at least I still can use it as a media player and MAME system.

[SD.]

Why no GPU acceleration in the Maemo version? Same chipset as Droid and it has been shown with GPU support in demonstrations. It will be a tad ironic if Droid and other Android devices have better Flash performance.

One of my main reasons for keeping the N900 was as a micro netbook, but if no GPU support for Flash, Android browser is just as functional for me.

Oh well, at least I still can use it as a media player and MAME system.

There is no h264 GPU acceleration on either the Droid or N900 since neither has a hardware h264 decoder.

It will be GPU accelerated for other things, on both phones.

[janeuner]

There is no h264 GPU acceleration on either the Droid or N900 since neither has a hardware h264 decoder.

It will be GPU accelerated for other things, on both phones.

Not really true. No, the OMAP3430 does not have a specialized h264 decoder. However, it does have accelerator hardware that makes 480p h264 possible to decode and display. It isn't just h264 - the device is adaptable to wmv, mpeg4, theora, and any of the other related technologies to a greater or lesser degree.

[shadowjk]

And maemo includes a h264 baseline decoder and a mpeg4asp decoder running on the dsp.. Still I'm doubtful we'll see it accelerated om linux anytime soon.

[sygys]

We need to get flash 10.1 because allready the first websites give me the "get latest adobe flash from here message" And am unable to visit the website.

Second of all there is no hd support for youtube. even worse is that the video's are terribly low quality

[mobiledivide]

Qole is saying on twitter there will be no flash 10 on N900 :( I was really looking forward to better flash perfomance.

http://twitter.com/qole

[Box215]

Qole is saying on twitter there will be no flash 10 on N900 :( I was really looking forward to better flash perfomance.

http://twitter.com/qole
that would be so wrong. sooooooooo soooo wrong. its one of the reasons i got an n900

[gerbick]

Qole is saying on twitter there will be no flash 10 on N900 :( I was really looking forward to better flash perfomance.

http://twitter.com/qole

If true, and I have no reason to doubt qole... I'll be waiting for the next Nokia product indeed.

[fatalsaint]

I wonder if MeeGo would be an answer for that as well...... *shrug*.

[mobiledivide]

I wonder if MeeGo would be an answer for that as well...... *shrug*.

I wonder if Adobe would provide that arm port needed without support from Nokia, I get the feel that business decisions are at play rather than capabilities.

[slender]

hey look we got flash we got flash.....except that its old and laggy on numerous video pages (vimeo for example). Another joke.