The Why I Won't Buy a 800 Thead

[CrossBow]

OK, I've read the reviews, looked at the excellent pictures that several people have posted, and I am not running out to see if my CompUSA has any. Here's why: (no special order)

1. They have not fixed the button situation. Some have suggested they made it worse. No scroll wheel. Not a good layout for games.

2. No Keyboard. As far as we know so far, there is still no support for USB keyboards - at least none that is easily useable for the non-linux-savy user.

3. AFAIK, still no good included PIM Suite - not usable as a PDA.

4. No GSM/GPRS radio - not useable as a phone. Must still carry 2 devices.

5. Battery life improvement? I have not seen evidence that there is any.

6. They have broken software compatability again !! While the Application Cattalog has grown at a fair pace, there just is not that much out there, and from what I have read
many of the Application Catalog 2006 apps will not work. Having 3 seperate Application Catalogs for what the consumer will view as all basically the same device is not acceptable.

7. Still have (and will likely continue to have) application installation issues. Some available via Repositories, some must be downloaded as a .deb, some must be "hand installed" in UNIX directory structures.

8. (Actually this is complaint 6 phrased a different way) I DOES NOT RUN QTOPIA !! Before you buy any Nokia Internet Tablet, have a look here:
http://www.killefiz.de/zaurus/
These are all apps that are specifically made for Linux-based mobile devices that will NOT run on a Nokia Internet Tablet, nor can they easily be ported to Maemo, like they can to other Qt based mobile devices (like my EZX phone.)

8. Still no J2ME/MIDP.

Now, I do admit that there are some deffinate improvments:

1. Connectors in a much better place. Putting them on the bottom was simply daft.

2. Having 2 standard SD slots is great. You can install apps on one, and (nearly) never remove it, and use the other for media files, etc that you chance out frequently.

You may Flame at will, commander.

[penguinbait]

OK, fair enough, here are the reasons I am buying a n800

Nokia repiar center just gave me 240$ for my 770

Faster Processor

More Memory

SD and MMC slots


I will not flame at will, I also see issues I would like to see addressed. Like the fact that the n800 is an ugly duckling. The fact that Nokia pimped the 770 users. The fact that I HATE nokia support. While GSM radio would be a great feature, It is by no means a show stopper, this was never intended to be a phone, but I assume it will eventually creep in to later hardware releases. Why you would want to hook up a USB keyboard to this thing is beyond me. I am glad to hear they added BT keyboard out of the shoot. Is this only nokia BT keyboard, or others also?

Personally if you do not love linux, I am not sure why you would subject yourself to this device.

I am picking mine up later today, local compusa has 7 in stock, woohoo!!!

[aleksandyr]

Why I'm not buying an 800? I can't afford one! Everything else is somewhat less relevant.

I disagree with most of your points on principle and how I use the device. That said, 6) is extremely valid and I've heard nothing comforting about it. The devices are both ARM architecture --- the switch to armel was supposed to enhance compatibility with future devices supporting v6/vfp, as far as I understood it.

Developers of open source software develop for the systems they own...I really hope this won't become an issue.

[CrossBow]

Personally if you do not love linux, I am not sure why you would subject yourself to this device.



Exactly my point. I (and most consumers - love of linux or not) are not going to spend $400 just because something happens to have a linux kernel. Today lots of consumer devices have some sort of embeded linux.

For $400, I can buy a heck of a lot of bumper stickers, shirts, ball caps, stuffed tuxes, etc. to show I "love linux".

Better than that, you could send your $400 to the EFF or FSF.

[Karel Jansens]

I agree totally on the software compatibility issue: That is something that should not happen. Period.

I also agree that not including a Java runtime on the N800 is tantamount to a hanging offense.

I'd like to agree on the application installation issue, if it were certain that it is an issue: Sofar I've read nothing about the application installer; that might mean that it's still the same convoluted mess it was, or it might mean that it's been fixed (not "improved", mind you, just fixed), or it might mean noone's looked at it yet.

I only partially agree on the USB issue: On the one hand, having no powered USB-port is really good for battery life; on the other, USB is so ubiquitous that it's plainly silly not to allow for full connectivity; the gripping hand: Nokia should have made available by now a battery-powered USB hub for the Nxxx.

I so don't agree on the QTopia issue: I have an Archos PMA430 myself, a QTopia-based device, and the majority of applications on killefiz simply doesn't run on it. Several bad implementation decisions have made the QTopia platform an even bigger compatibility mess than ITOS. That said, a QTopia distribution for the 770/800 might not be a bad idea.

I think you're wrong on the battery issue: the 770 has a more than decent battery life and the fact that, if I am to believe what other posters claim, the N800 achieves similar figures with the same battery and twice the processor power, is next to a miracle.

I also think you're completely missing the point of the 770/800 platform by complaining about no PDA functionality included.

And finally, I think you're completely bonkers :rolleyes: in your complaint about the absence of a GSM/GPRS module. Repeat after me: IT'S NOT A PHONE!

[CrapBot]

I also will not be upgrading.

I use the 770 for reading (fbreader and evince) primarily and occasional web browsing. The device is highly unstable for production software, the browser crashes regularly. Upgrading to the 800 will not fix this, only software upgrades will fix this. (Will I be getting those software upgrades though.... it looks shakey)

The new n800 will not offer me any extra features, given that I only use it for reading.

Having another incompatible software release is absolutely bizarre, I don't understand it at all. It is quite frustrating. Sort the software out Nokia, I'm tired of random resets and crashes.

[rattis]

Exactly my point. I (and most consumers - love of linux or not) are not going to spend $400 just because something happens to have a linux kernel. Today lots of consumer devices have some sort of embeded linux.

For $400, I can buy a heck of a lot of bumper stickers, shirts, ball caps, stuffed tuxes, etc. to show I "love linux".

Better than that, you could send your $400 to the EFF or FSF.

Actually the whole reason I went with the 770 when I got it, was because it ran linux. I was looking for a new pda that could do certain things. While it couldn't do them out of the box, the main selling point was that it was not a Windows device.

[bac522]

I won't be rushing out to buy the N800, not enough of an upgrade from the 770 for me. If some pricing deals appear on the N800 down the road I might consider it but that would be at the $250 price point. At this point the 770 does everything I need it to do.

[smackpotato]

It doesn't appear to be available in canada

[idangazit]

Because I bought a 770 exactly 3 weeks ago, when nokia was making a full-on blitz of marketing for the 770 and it was christmastime. They treated me and every other consumer who went and bought the 770 like trash.

To add insult to injury, it doesn't sound like any new development will be happening for the 770 because they are deliberately breaking compatibility. Given that much of the life of the 770's application ecosystem was driven by hobbyists developing for the cool toys, I do not see hobbyists expending the extra hours to make their applications work for the obsolete platform as well as the new one with all of that horsepower they crave. 770 owners get to enjoy the fastest obsoletion in history.

At least, I can comfort myself with the knowledge that the N800 is ugly as mud.

-I

[fpp]

OTOH, three weeks ago it had been common knowledge for quite a while, on this board and others, that the new model was just around the corner...

[Texrat]

Because I bought a 770 exactly 3 weeks ago, when nokia was making a full-on blitz of marketing for the 770 and it was christmastime. They treated me and every other consumer who went and bought the 770 like trash.

To add insult to injury, it doesn't sound like any new development will be happening for the 770 because they are deliberately breaking compatibility. Given that much of the life of the 770's application ecosystem was driven by hobbyists developing for the cool toys, I do not see hobbyists expending the extra hours to make their applications work for the obsolete platform as well as the new one with all of that horsepower they crave. 770 owners get to enjoy the fastest obsoletion in history.

At least, I can comfort myself with the knowledge that the N800 is ugly as mud.

-I

Another overreaction. I realize you're unhappy but your rant doesn't match the facts. Sorry you feel let down, though.

[enemyace]

770 owners get to enjoy the fastest obsoletion in history.-I

No, I think that honor belongs to the 3com Audrey...

[trumpetto]

I agree.
I like my 770 a lot for experiments and fun but for the following reasons I'll not soon buy a Nokia device again;
1. The Nokia support is terrible. I have my 770 for 7 months now and it was away for repair half of that time. Not ONE word from Nokia about that! There had to pass these 3 magical months before I got an new device? So after totally 3.5 months of fun I have an 'old' device as stated on meamo.org.
2. Adding to that the (again) broken software compatability. With all the cheap N800's for developers, which developer is maintaining his code for the 770? Buying off some backward compatibility-problems? How to break a growing comunity? Any professional developers betting on this?
3. The upgrade is too minimal and this is where Nokia will lose terrain quickly to more powerful game-devices, phones and umpc's.
4. I don't need another device with poor image-capture-quality, mediocre gps-software, a browser that fails on important services like google calendar (no PIM inside...) and so on. It looks like they just keep jamming half solutions in this package while the 770 should be helped to a mature device with full quality hard- and software...

[CrossBow]

Oh, forgot another gripe:

9. Won't charge via USB port.

[mike v]

sorry guys mine is on way overnight shipping and all guess ill just suffer by myself please as im drowning in sorrow remember me i started with the 770 and up to the n800 :P

[Nickster]

The reasons I won't buy the N800:

* Unproven - want to wait a while and see how stable IT2007 is.

* Hardware upgrade isn't quite high enough to justify the price whilst ditching the N770.

* No Nokia trade-in plan that I can see.

* No guarantee that IT2007 will still be actively supported in 2008 or 2009.

* No slidey-hard-case-thing. I used to use a large-screen LCD graph calculator which didn't have any screen protection, and used to crack the screen every few years. Don't want to do that with an Internet Tablet.

The ditching of N770 support annoys me - there's still too many bugs that need sorting out, and yet it's still "good enough" for what I use it for.

I might buy the N800's successor once I know Nokia's committed to legacy models. Linux is all about one-size-fits-all - I'm disappointed Nokia's development model doesn't accomodate multiple platforms.

Nick

[jcords]

I am quite content with the design of 770, black and all, and from the photos the 800 looks sortof cheap, like any chinese MP4 player. I guess it would be cool to watch youtube and the like directly, but as long as we do not know whether we can watch streamed video in a better fashion and all the other aforementioned critical questions I do not see the cruciall advantage of the new device - furthermore, Nokia is running a risk by luring normal consumers into buying this OS driven beta-device. It´s pricier than an often subsidized Symbian smartphone and as many have pointed out it lacks the premier PIM functions of a Windows device, but consumers are then being left alone with the slowly advancing applications offering. I bought mine to goof around with while not paying for GPRS/UMTS charges PLUS having a nice screen&sound is nice too. Its great to surf a few pages lying in bed during nighttime or in a cafe with free wifi. And the streaming solutions look promising. No need to shelf it after only one year. I will sit this one out and will have a look at the n900 in 2008.

[elwood]

If they would offer a trade-in, I'd probably get one, but what I've seen so far does not justify spending another 400 €.
If I see one in store when I'm in Vegas in march though? Who knows. A few good rounds black jack and I might buy it.:D

[Texrat]

from the photos the 800 looks sortof cheap

As I've said here before: don't make any such assumptions based on those photos. They've misled a lot of people into thinking the real thing "looks sort of cheap". It doesn't.

[enemyace]

I looked at it last night at CompUSA and honestly I wasn't particularly impressed. I liked how the curvy case feels in the hand, but I found the new stylus to suck big time (feels like a big chunk of cheap plastic and the chrome on it, WHY?) I don't like all the silver and chrome on the 800 in general. The new zoom/fullscreen buttons are chintsy. I also don't like the feel of the back, menu, and home buttons.

The built in stand has a nice click to the two positions, and I can see how it'd be useful. The screen was nice with the harder surface, but didn't seem particularly different than the old one. I tried launching some apps and moving around in the interface, and it didn't seem all that much faster than my 770, certainly not enough of a difference to matter that much to me. The extra memory would be great I'm sure, and the SD cards are nice, but other than that I feel it's not that much better. And I know it can be changed, but I hate the new theme for OS2007, I think it looks amateurish compared to even some of the 770 themes.

OS2007 didn't seem any different to me, but I'm sure that'll change when new apps are written for it and not for OS2006. Mostly, I'm concerned that Gtalk won't see any updates for 2006 but will for 2007, that sucks.

[benny1967]

As I've said here before: don't make any such assumptions based on those photos. They've misled a lot of people into thinking the real thing "looks sort of cheap". It doesn't.

:) You forget the device is already on the market.
Meanwhile, we make our assumptions based on photos and on the reports from those who already bought one.

[Texrat]

:) You forget the device is already on the market.
Meanwhile, we make our assumptions based on photos and on the reports from those who already bought one.

I'm referring to something specific, benny: the judgment based on photos.

I have 3 myself and have had my hands on hundreds. The overall construction is anything but cheap, I don't care what anyone says, including those who have bought one. Don't confuse fact with opinion and emotion... the latter of which are running rampant right now. I think you're on intimate terms. ;)

[NokNok770]

The way it looks the way it feels, that might all be opinions, but if a lot of people think the chrome buttons are cheap and bad designed then it probably is. Besides, you don't have to hold it in your hand to say something "looks cheap"

The reason I'm not getting one...yet... is probably because I can't justify spending another 400.

And the way nokia treat the 770 users, they won't support 2007 os on 770 that tells you something about what's going to happen to the 800 when the 900 comes out in a year or so.

[Texrat]

I'm not gonna split the hair any further, NokNok-- just saying making snap decisions from photos can be misleading. That's it.

[CrossBow]

Reason #10

iPhone !!!!! iPhone !!!!! iPhone !!!!!

[Hedgecore]

I'm still rather curious as to who exactly Texrat is since I've rubbed shoulders with them here for around a year now... but anyway, I digress.

Brand loyalty? This may be the silly kid with bright red spiked hair and patched up clothing from days gone by speaking here, but what exactly do these corporations owe you? You bought a product, a new one came out... your lips are quivering and your eyes are welling up because how dare they come out with a new product they intend to sell for more market share.

Guys. Your moms are supposed to call you 'slugger', pat you on the head, and give you a pudding pop when things don't go your way. Nokia will only give you the chance to buy something bigger and better and put more cash in their pockets.

I look at things from an impersonal level, because really, I'm not inviting the Nokia board over to dinner anytime soon. They brought a WiFi capable Linux based tablet to market. Right on!

Will I be getting an N800? Probably not. While the speed/memory card improvements are great, the lack of a case is a huge detractor as is the $400 expenditure so soon after buying the previous model. The webcam... I admit it, I'd use the thing. I just don't care if it's really there or not.

The 770 is running a flavour of Linux. Development for it will be going on years from now... look at the Zaurus.

[benny1967]

Will I be getting an N800? Probably not. While the speed/memory card improvements are great, the lack of a case is a huge detractor as is the $400 expenditure so soon after buying the previous model. The webcam... I admit it, I'd use the thing. I just don't care if it's really there or not.


:D I'm happy to see more and more people mention the metal case. - I was beginning to think I was totally mad making my decision over such a high-tech toy partly depend on its cover :)

How about this:
We

rebuild a case very similar to the 770, but wide enough to hold the electronic parts that are inside a N800. It should be black, have large, good-quality buttons, and of course the good old metal case.
sell the new case through obscure channels, which will as a side effect earn us enough money to take over the world.
put a step-by-step instruction on the web (including pictures) that allows even unexperienced users to take apart the ugly duckling, put all its valuable giblets into the new case and connect all the buttons/ports.


The print on the new case reads Nokia 870.

[richie]

I look at things from an impersonal level, because really, I'm not inviting the Nokia board over to dinner anytime soon. They brought a WiFi capable Linux based tablet to market. Right on!

A lot of strong feeling, but reading this thread, to me Texrat, Hedgcore and Karel, put it all in context. I think this is positive move by Nokia, by continuing to release another Linux based tablet. I'm going to get one.

Rich

[Drewvt]

I only bought my 770 a few months ago; it does everything I need it to do. Don't require any webcam and the processor speed is sufficient. So no upgrade for me.

Hopefully, by the time my 770 breaks down, we might even be looking at the N900 or whatever. It's good for everyone that Nokia keeps building on the concept, of course...

[Texrat]

I'm still rather curious as to who exactly Texrat is since I've rubbed shoulders with them here for around a year now... but anyway, I digress.

;) I screwed up at one point here and revealed too much of myself... lol. Then I discovered I am expected to be more discreet, so I edited my profile and my posting approach. So from now on I am in strict "neither confirm nor deny" and "need to know basis" modes. :p

[wls]

:D I'm happy to see more and more people mention the metal case. - I was beginning to think I was totally mad making my decision over such a high-tech toy partly depend on its cover :)

How about this:
We

rebuild a case very similar to the 770, but wide enough to hold the electronic parts that are inside a N800. It should be black, have large, good-quality buttons, and of course the good old metal case.
sell the new case through obscure channels, which will as a side effect earn us enough money to take over the world.
put a step-by-step instruction on the web (including pictures) that allows even unexperienced users to take apart the ugly duckling, put all its valuable giblets into the new case and connect all the buttons/ports.


The print on the new case reads Nokia 870.
GREAT IDEA
and we could put on a show to raise the money to do it!

Seriously what you suggest about the case is what Nokia should have done but I doubt they will admit their mistake. I even briefly considered buying a broken 770 for the case and seeing if I could make the 800 fit into it.
It's just a lost cause though and the iPhone looks to be the better choice now. It has Java and osX! Maybe a firefox browser too.

[Invicta]

I waited for new model and wanted to see what it would offer. When I saw it I was tempted to get one for dual SD and better performace, thought I would have wanted hw keyboard too. When I found out that once new model is out Nokia won't care about old machine I decided that I'm not going to pay 400 €/year to keep up with compatibility so it's better to cut my loses right now and stay with 770.

A year I've been telling people what is good about 770, what it is used for and what they can expect if they get one. I've liked it a lot, used it a lot and praised it too. This year I will be telling people wanting N800 what is life expectancy of this device and what will happend to N800 when next model comes out. If Nokia want's to shoot itself to the leg and not even patch the wound, I will make sure people see how it bleeds.

[Milhouse]

Seriously what you suggest about the case is what Nokia should have done but I doubt they will admit their mistake. I even briefly considered buying a broken 770 for the case and seeing if I could make the 800 fit into it.

It's just a lost cause though and the iPhone looks to be the better choice now.

But the iPhone doesn't have a case, yet you seem upset that the N800 does not have a case.

I really don't see the iPhone and N800 competing - not with the iPhones puny screen resolution. Also, it's seriously expensive - $600 with a 2 year contract, probably closer to $1000 without a contract. It will make a nice vanity phone though.

[lbattraw]

Brand loyalty? This may be the silly kid with bright red spiked hair and patched up clothing from days gone by speaking here, but what exactly do these corporations owe you? You bought a product, a new one came out... your lips are quivering and your eyes are welling up because how dare they come out with a new product they intend to sell for more market share.
Brave words, true perhaps. The thing that really irritates me personally is that Nokia banked on all these poor saps who saw a device with neat features and ran linux. These saps (of whom I personally partake) have put up with the many bugs, growing pains, and warts inherent to a new linux distribution -what it really is-, both out of altruism, but also out of desire to participate in the platform as it turns into something really special. It's at this point that reality intrudes and we're suddenly thrust aside, unable to continue our association. Dumb, dumb, dumb. So, -fools we are- we will be excused if we sniffle a bit and throw dust and rocks at the retreating back of the huckster who took us in and relieved us of our ill-conceived hopes and cash.

Larry

[wls]

But the iPhone doesn't have a case, yet you seem upset that the N800 does not have a case.

I really don't see the iPhone and N800 competing - not with the iPhones puny screen resolution. Also, it's seriously expensive - $600 with a 2 year contract, probably closer to $1000 without a contract. It will make a nice vanity phone though.
I see the case as a unique and usefull idea and part of the 770's appeal. Dropping that design was a mistake and a symptom of how Nokia has lost it's vision of the device.
I'm not looking for that case in the iphone, it has its own integrety of style. I don't want it to be a 870 wannanbe it's better than that.
I believe the price quoted by Jobs is $499 and there should be a discount with service. I do expect some kind of pay video service that will cost extra though. If it turns out to be much more then I may reconsider and look for a UMPC. We shall see.

[uczmeg]

I see the case as a unique and usefull idea and part of the 770's appeal. Dropping that design was a mistake and a symptom of how Nokia has lost it's vision of the device.
I'm not looking for that case in the iphone, it has its own integrety of style. I don't want it to be a 870 wannanbe it's better than that.
I believe the price quoted by Jobs is $499 and there should be a discount with service. I do expect some kind of pay video service that will cost extra though. If it turns out to be much more then I may reconsider and look for a UMPC. We shall see.

Everything I've read says $499 with a 2 year contract (at $60 per month).

In my opinion, I don't see the iPhone in the same bracket and until we have some devices with 800 pixel wide screens there is no real competiton if you want a decent web experience.

[orbitalcomp]

Man, I must definitely be in the minority here, but I like the looks of the N800. The 770 was a good design in it's own right, but to normal people who don't hang out on tech sites all day long, it was probably a confusing-looking product. Is it a remote control? Is it a Walkman? Well, it sorta is, but you get my point...the 770 just looks so different from most consumer electronics, whereas the N800 would look right at home next to many of today's popular cellphones and laptops. Silver and chrome trim is everywhere we look now, even in many automobile interiors.

I have to admit, those top buttons do look like a downgrade in comparison to the 770, and I don't like the fact that you have to prop the stand open to get to the USB port (Dremel drill anyone?), but everything else is better. And I applaud Nokia for trying to take it more mainstream, because there are many more "normal" users out there than us tech-heads, which means more business for Nokia. More owners = more innovation and improvements. Plus, eveyone is compaining about the discontinuation of support for the 770...I haven't seen anything from Nokia that said "no more support", unless I missed it. When Microsoft switches over to Vista in a month, XP support will wane a bit, but many millions of users will continue to use it for another 3-5 years, just like what happened with Windows 98 way back when. Same thing will apply to the 770, there will be two roadmaps, both with support and diehard users...

As for that metal cover on the 770, again I am in the minority here, because I *never* used mine, not even once. It was slid on the back side and never removed until I got my PDair leather case, at which time the metal cover went back in the 770 box. I put a PSP screen protector on from Day 1, and kept it in the included pouch until I got the leather case. I really hate those detachable covers, because when you think about it, many people are more likely to have the device fly out of their hands while removing the cover, than they are to crush or crack their screens. I could be wrong, but that's my take on the matter...

I had previously mentioned that I probably wouldn't be getting the new model because I have a Sony UX280P, but I may have waffled a bit...I really like the upgraded processor and RAM on the N800, not to mention the dual slots - that right there vaults this more into the "multimedia" category...

[Drewvt]

I really hate those detachable covers, because when you think about it, many people are more likely to have the device fly out of their hands while removing the cover, than they are to crush or crack their screens. I could be wrong, but that's my take on the matter...

I admit, one bad habit that easily develops is when you want to change the cover quickly and you let the 770 "drop" into the cover at a dangerous speed (simply because it's faster that way, you're impatient, you let gravity do the work...) If I ever crack the bottom, that's how it'll happen.

[Milhouse]

Everything I've read says $499 with a 2 year contract (at $60 per month).

$499/$599 for the 4GB/8GB model.


In my opinion, I don't see the iPhone in the same bracket and until we have some devices with 800 pixel wide screens there is no real competiton if you want a decent web experience.

Amen to that, brother. :)

[CrapBot]

understand that the OS2007 will not be ported. I find this quite bizarre, surely the hardware specific elements can be accounted for and disabled as needed..?

However. What I do want to know is if the software such as skype, the newer browser etc will be ported to the 770. If so, that's fine, if not, it's a complete sham.

[Invicta]

Ari Jaaksi (http://jaaksi.blogspot.com/index.html) says they are going to look again porting at least part of OS2007 to 770. Unfortunately he is talking about developer only version. I still have hard time to understand what this excatly solves.

Edit: I would be willing to pay little for os update for 770 to cover licencing fees that porting os2007 to 770 would create.

[aflegg]

Invicta: it's good news; it means developers can more easily release software which works on both devices.

No, the 770 might not get updated Opera and Flash, but more of the open source components and their APIs may make it back. This'll make it much easier for developers.

[sevo]

understand that the OS2007 will not be ported. I find this quite bizarre, surely the hardware specific elements can be accounted for and disabled as needed..?


They will eventually probably do that - as it simplifies their maintenance issues. Unlikely for the 2007 release, but it would be poor management if they don't build 2007.1 to cover all hardware...


However. What I do want to know is if the software such as skype, the newer browser etc will be ported to the 770. If so, that's fine, if not, it's a complete sham.

Don't hold your breath - porting the system specific kernel and driver components is likely, and porting the plain system apps is so trivial that it will probably be done by the community if Nokia is not fast enough.

But integrating feature addons of the third-party binary apps is much less likely to happen. That features were missing at all was mostly due to hardware constraints in the 770 (low memory, no FPU, no GL, codec limitations), and that the N800 has new features (in its software) is mostly due to the fact that the improved hardware does not need quite as much stripping from the more or less x86/desktop-centered codebases of the third party vendors.

I'd be very surprised if the 770 ever saw flash movie support from Adobe, or a more complex build of Opera that does not stall and crash even faster than the current one due to "out of memory" situations...

Sevo

[Invicta]

As I'm not developer, I understand this helps developers using 770 to develop for N800. But I don't know is there something in this that would help those developers who are using N800 to develop for 770, unless Nokia releases it to consumers also?

[Viipottaja]

I think it's fantastic how quickly Nokia, Jaaksi and his team reacted to the criticism voiced by the community, and is, IMHO, doing their best to respond to it a constructive way, within the limitation of the software, hardware, licences, corporate culture and what not. I personally raise my hat (wait, don't really own one.. ) !

[lucky-luke]

I'm very disappointed with nokia in the break down compatibility, and, like they did it with the 770, they will do the same in 1 year to make the newer nxx0 a tablet with phone.
Yes, we know that Nxx0 are not a phones, but think with the upcoming MAC IPHONE, it is a phone + ipod + internettablet!

[Texrat]

I'm very disappointed with nokia in the break down compatibility, and, like they did it with the 770, they will do the same in 1 year to make the newer nxx0 a tablet with phone.
Yes, we know that Nxx0 are not a phones, but think with the upcoming MAC IPHONE, it is a phone + ipod + internettablet!

That's an assumption. I still maintain it's a mistake to assume that, going forward, new devices will impact the N800 in the same manner that the N800 impacted the 770. Remember, the 770 was the "feel out the market and get feedback" device; the N800 was the (partial) result of said feedback. I am confident that the N800 platform greatly solidified the feature set and reduces the probability that it will be "rendered obsolete" by its successors. Changes from this point forward are likely to be much smaller than those incorporated into the N800.

[lucky-luke]

It's possible, but this is not what I had understood when I first saw the N770 and the maemo platform.

I'm sorry, but if I buy another tabletpc, I think it would be x86 compatible and/or a UMPC.
I don't want to be a laboratory rat for Nokia.

[Hedgecore]

I should preface this by saying that the 770 I own was purchased to fill a niche need; portable internet access with similar functionality to a desktop computer. Anything above and beyond that needs to make large leaps and bounds before it'll garner my attention again. I'm not sure the N800 has done that, though admittedly I'm paying it only mild attention.

So, true to the topic; here's why I won't be buying an N800. Yet.

Speed has always been a relative thing in the realm of computing. I have a P4 3GHz PC at home that was blazing fast in 2004 and still serves my needs now. In 2007, it's not the fastest, but still serves my needs. The 770 works acceptably.

A device in a portable form factor just aches to be carried abroad. A foam case reminescent of those "We're Number 1!" foam hands at sporting events doesn't really cut it from portability or protective perspectives. Nokia was genius to incorporate a hard case on the 770. I dare say it's why more than 5% of them still exist in the wild today. I'd really love to hear the reasoning on ditching it completely (even tailoring the N800 chassis for a sold-separately clip-on model would've been better).

Memory... 2 SD card slots. Bonus. This is a good move, and this is a perfect example of me being a fickle consumer. Seriously, I don't want to be dicking around with any more memory card formats. In my home we've already got RSMMC, CompactFlash, and those big suckers with the gold contacts on them whose name eludes me.

Software. This, I admit, I could be completely wrong about. I've heard backwards compatibility isn't possible. Here's my issue; For a device that relies so heavily on *volunteer* community involvement so far as application production goes, why break it? I remember when Linux switched binary formats years ago you'd have to compile apps for the old a.out format, or the new (at the time) ELF format (Hope I got that information right, this dates back to the mid 90's and I was 15 at the time). Is it just a matter of recompilation? If not, a bunch of already stressed developers using their precious spare time to make for a more robust tablet are being prodded to do even more... and so soon after the last tablet came out. I don't know about you, but I'd either be a zealot (never heard that term applied to Linux users before - - hah!) and stick with the 770, or give up completely. The hallowed internet acronym WTF seems fitting.

I'd *love* to see the data behind those customer surveys. I realize I have very fleeting contact with the 770 userbase as a whole what with frequenting ITT (we're all nuts, just admit it) but where are these people who said the hard case was a horrible idea? Was it the 'blocks access to the stylus' crowd? (Come on, slide the cover 1/4 inch and pull it out, it's not hard.) Didn't everyone champion further developing the applications at hand? The abysmal email client (that I don't even use anyway)? A better suite for streaming media from their desktops?

... wtf?

** edit: Referring to the hardcase, I mean an actual cover, not something I could construct with a greeting card and a strip of duct tape:
http://www.europe.nokia.com/accessorieslink?s=N800Case

[andymulhearn]

Because I bought a PSP instead. It allows me to :


Do a little browsing
Play some games
Listen to AAC tunes I've ripped in iTunes
Watch videos on a far better screen

It cost £100 less than I paid for a 770 and probably half of the price of an 800.

Nokia blew it for me with N70 and the crap software. Dropping support for the 770 with things like the crap email client not fixed was just the final nail in their coffin.

[Texrat]

It's possible, but this is not what I had understood when I first saw the N770 and the maemo platform.

I'm sorry, but if I buy another tabletpc, I think it would be x86 compatible and/or a UMPC.
I don't want to be a laboratory rat for Nokia.

I think there were common misconceptions what the 770's scope was when it was introduced, and assumptions on the other side that purchasers understood this was a "test the waters" device. Of course, those are all assumptions on my part as well. ;)

And not to excuse anything on anyone's part, but it should IMO be readily understood by purchasers that a first-generation device with significant deviations from the status quo (as the 770 was) is anything BUT a polished product, and will very likely be replaced by something very different.

[sonoronos]

Just another toy...

As long as my 770 can access my email, online banking, and bill payment, then I don't really need the 800.

The new features are nice, but are they worth another $400.00?

Not for me.

Would I choose the 800 over the 770 if I had not bought the 770 first?

Absolutely!

I can think of a lot of different things to do with $400....for example, saving up for an engagement ring :D

[keitai]

I agree with sonoros, I'm happy with my 770. SD-slots of N800 are tempting for movie storage and easy viewing of pictures taken with ixus but it's still not worth 400€. Well 770 still sells for 200€ in local eBay, so the upgrade is only half of the price.

Unlike the apocalypse prophets, I expect 770 to get N800 (bora) compatibility soon. Compatibility is just matter of having matching shared libraries as they did not change the toolchain. And almost every shared library on 770 is Open Source.

[Arjun]

Honestly all you great guys provided a lot of valuable information here as pros and cons with regards to your reason to root for N800 or Nokia 770.

As far gud’ ol me is concerned, I will not be buying a N800. This is simply because the Nokia 770 totally serves my purpose. All I wished before Nokia 770 was to have some sort of always-available-procurable Internet Access. And the Nokia 770 does this wonderfully. I know many people have said that they don’t have a stable Wi-fi Connection, others had multiple WSOD, still others could not get GAIM to work, many others had a hard time pairing the Nokia 770 to their GPRS\EDGE\EVDO etc phones.

So far I have been lucky not to have too much of any of these happen to me. Buying a Nokia N800 does not justify spending another $400 when some of the general things it does is like load a bit faster (due to faster processor), has more memory for applications, has two Memory Card Slots. Unfortunately none of these float my boat.

The Wi-Fi connection speed remains the same. The GPRS \ EDGE \ EVDO connections depend on your carrier and the functionality of the phone. I don’t need ultra fast connection to check my emails. I don’t need more memory to surf the web when the speed of the CPU is not ultra fast. I don’t need a faster processor to watch movie files or listen to music on the involved Nokias, I prefer Video / Stereo Devices etc for that.

I did not think of the Nokia 770 as a PDA in anyway whatsoever initially and don’t even do so now. I don’t care for I-phone either simply because I do think that the amount of money required for that device along with the contract involved is ridiculous. I just felt the need of a ‘ Device’ that will allow me to surf the Web at my whims and fancy. The Nokia 770 along with my Nokia 6682 Phone does that very well. What more do I need?

For me, the Nokia 770 has always been better than Dell Axioms, Palm Life Drive and the likes. So buying the N800 immediately within a year’s time simply is not justifiable to me, when there are no truly great changes to the hardware involved.