Screw the new N800, i want the iPhone [Archive] - maemo.org

wls

01-09-2007, 06:47 PM

Yes I agree. Nokia really screwed up the N800. All they had to do was put in the faster processor board and use the 770 case styling and it would have been an unquallified favorite. The exterior design team should be taken out and shot. And whats with the software- no Java and no Firefox browser! No excuse for that after a year.
After looking at the features of the Iphone the N800 is just LAME!! LAME!!!
I was considering the N800 but not now.
Sorry Nokia you had your chance and blew it. Going for an IPhone!

uczmeg

01-09-2007, 07:51 PM

You can get an N800 now, You can wait until June for an iPhone.

A N800 cost $400, an iPhone costs $500 plus a two year phone contract at $60.

An iPhone looks like the coolest smartphone. But with a screen res of 320x480 it isn't an internet tablet.

Don't get me wrong. I'd love an iPhone, but it is in a different ball park (on price) and what you can do with it.

MikeL

01-09-2007, 08:06 PM

Yes the iphone looks very interesting, will need to see how it performs for real though; not just the early promotional blurb. I do Like the look of it's:-

media control and playback
The way sms text is simply integrated so that you can follow a timeline conversation like with google chat
It's sexy looks :)

Now if Nokia could come up with all that in a Nokia phone with a truly open source OS that does not alienate its user fan base with each new model?

I posted in my blog, illustrating how I created an RSS Feed of the promotional iphone .mov videos and then was watching the mov's transcoded to mpeg1 for Wi-F streaming playback on my TV via my UPnP Media player the Philips SL300i. http://mikesl300i.blogspot.com/2007/01/new-apple-iphone-videos-in-webjay-rss.html

---edit---

I was also successfully transcoding on the fly to mpeg2 on my Nokia 770 streamed using the TVersity Media Server, Opera to catch the TVersity served URL and play via mplayer.

I posted the transcoded .mov to mpeg2 file on YouTube. Which was then converted by YouTube into Flash even so you will be surprised at the quality. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rb_z-3Ii1J8

gigabites

01-09-2007, 08:36 PM

and the irony is, nokia makes great cell phones...

michaelalanjones

01-09-2007, 11:25 PM

Seriously, the iPhone syncs with the Mac or PC, and the Nokia does not sync with anything at all. The iPhone is a phone, and an internet tablet, and an iPod, and has a huge hard drive, not just a dinky 2GB flash card. Now is the time for Nokia to resolve all of the Internet Tablet problems, which it probably won't do.

If I was Nokia, or any other phone manufacturer, I would be worried. My wife was going to buy a new phone this week, (she has always had Nokia phones), and now, she is waiting until June, and getting an iPhone. She uses an iBook G4.

If Nokia wants to sell even one N800, they better resolve the problems right quick. I predict a lot of potential N800 buyers will wait for the iPhone. Is this thing on? Nokia, can you hear me?

Milhouse

01-10-2007, 02:35 AM

The iPhone is a phone, and an internet tablet, and an iPod, and has a huge hard drive, not just a dinky 2GB flash card.

The iPhone is *NOT* an internet tablet. Sure, it has a web browser but who in their right mind wants to browse on a device with a 480x320 screen? I certainly don't, it's not a pleasant experience.

The iPhone does not have a "huge hard drive" - it has 4GB or 8GB of flash. The N800 is compatible with 4GB SD flash cards (despite what Nokia have stated) and with a firmware upgrade should be compatible with 8GB+ SDHC cards. With 4GB SD cards selling for $50 you can match the storage capacity of the most expensive iPhone for $100 (and probably less by the time June rolls around).

I predict a lot of potential N800 buyers will wait for the iPhone. Is this thing on? Nokia, can you hear me?

OK Nostradamus, let's get this straight... they're not competing products, the iPhone is hugely expensive and uncompetitive (even when subsidised), and to cap it all the iPhone won't be available outside of the US until late 2007 so it's hardly a mass market product. Most UK network providers factor in $400/£200 for a 1 year contract so the iPhone at $499/$599 (with a 2 year contract, $30/month) has a starting price in the region of $1299/$1399, wtf??!!

Honestly, I doubt any mobile phone manufacturers are losing much sleep over the iPhone. And to cap it all, anyone that shells out $499/$599 (4GB/8GB) for the iPhone will learn to hate touchscreen phones - trust me, you can't appreciate how bad an idea they are until you own one, as I sadly do.

gigabites

01-10-2007, 04:05 AM

The n770 was already a niche player, next to no one bought it. Less people were impressed with the N770 to go buy the n800. $400 for an n800 is not that much less than $499 iphone and certainly not hugely expensive, but if you want to play the numbers game, $400 for the N800, say $100 for a new phone, avg $50/mo for cell service...well it's pretty much a wash. As much as i love my n770, I now only really use it for the wonderful maemo mapper app (now for a really cheap gps, nothing beats the n770!), the iphone is gonna win. Not for you maybe, sure, it's not for everyone, and hopefully people who buy the n800 will be happy with it. But no one is losing sleep over the N800. Btw, it's a new touchscreen, and nothing like anything you have ever used, the patents say so. Besides, it's only RevA and can only get better.

Milhouse

01-10-2007, 04:25 AM

Btw, it's a new touchscreen, and nothing like anything you have ever used, the patents say so. Besides, it's only RevA and can only get better.

I'll eat my hat if the patented Apple touchscreen (which looks remarkably like a flat piece of glass to me) can simulate tactile feedback. But as you say, it's RevA and an Apple device so we'll excuse all it's shortcomings, and by the time RevB is launched it might have mind-control as standard. :) If only people had been so charitable about the ground breaking 770 when it was launched?

ddalex

01-10-2007, 04:31 AM

Sorry for N800. It's a loser.

I have a 770, which broke after a week. Nokia uses legal tricks to avoid repairing it under the warranty. I'll have to repair it out of pocket. Anyway latest phone models from Nokia have been all buggy (I'm a prof. developer for mobile devices), as well as the ton of 770 that white-screen, so I have no reason to think N800 will be different.

I wanted really bad a N800, but now it look really lame compared to the iPhone. The fact that it runs MacOSX means that may be possible to run desktop MacOSX applications. Widespread addoption (look at iPod-fan base) will make that lots of developers will start write for MacOSX. Seems that Apple is combining the platforms it has, unlike Nokia that divide theirs.

The only problem I see is the low screen resolution. I can bet however that in next revisions this will be addressed. Also the user interface will certainly not be matched by Nokia, which really mis-manages their really big screen-estate.

So I can wait a year (till iPhone gets in EU) and hang on the 770 and the SE phone until then. And at that point drop one device out of my pocket :D

Hurray!

Milhouse

01-10-2007, 04:37 AM

The fact that it runs MacOSX means that may be possible to run desktop MacOSX applications. Widespread addoption (look at iPod-fan base) will make that lots of developers will start write for MacOSX. Seems that Apple is combining the platforms it has, unlike Nokia that divide theirs.

You'll be sorely disappointed, as it's been stated that Apple will not be allowing third-party development on the iPhone. And I bet "runs Mac OSX" is just marketing speak/hype, the truth being somewhat different although it's possible the limited APIs on the iPhone OS are close enough to make it indistinguishable from the desktop OS.

Karel Jansens

01-10-2007, 06:39 AM

And to cap it all, anyone that shells out $499/$599 (4GB/8GB) for the iPhone will learn to hate touchscreen phones - trust me, you can't appreciate how bad an idea they are until you own one, as I sadly do.

I agree with almost everything, except that: I happen to own a Sony Ericsson P910 touchscreen smartphone and I definitely do not dislike it. I even took the hardware keyboard off because it was too much hassle.

That said, I don't especially love touchscreen phones either; it just works.

Now, just to finish this off in the right sentiment: Apple's cellphone is a mediocre locked-down smartphone with a novel way of controlling it. Mind, "novel" is not necessarily synonymous to "good".

smith

01-10-2007, 07:52 AM

I think that n800 is a different product with different people targets.... you can compare the iphone, for example, with another phone like Nokia N95:
-WIFI
-UMTS 3G
-5MP CAMERA
-FM RADIO
-VIDEO CALLS (another camera in front)
-INTEGRATED GPS
-USB...

Dirk

01-10-2007, 10:10 AM

But the iPhone has made so much more innovations on the user interface, compared to the 770/N800. Why can't I read my newspaper articles on the 770's browser in portrait mode??? Reading very wide columns is useless, thus I am always reading it in a small width column of only 480 pixels high (see link below). This effectively criples the nice 800 px wide diplay in half, thus I could just as well use the Iphone in 480px portrait mode to read it. And since it is a fully html solution, there's no application porting problem, except to workout the offline part, but i think the safari browser will allow a file://... url .

For info, my daily newspaper is my killer app for the 770! See my page at xs4all.nl: nokia 770 newspaper reading (http://www.xs4all.nl/~kuijste2/nokia/nokia-770.html).
or only view the picture with landscape mode columns I'm forced to read:
770 newspaper columns.png (http://www.xs4all.nl/~kuijste2/nokia/06.png)

I also expect to ditch my 770 + SE phone combo for the iPhone when it comes out.

flareup

01-10-2007, 10:12 AM

The hostility here about the 800 and the sudden leaping on the iphone as some kind of justification for it is hilarious!

The 800 is better than the 770, as an internet tablet, which we're often reminded is WHAT IT IS. The browsing experience is much smoother and faster. The internal upgrades will obviously offer opportunities for further expansions into other uses. The fact that people here feel "left behind" is sad, and perhaps because this forum is my first real contact with "the open source community" I shouldn't be surprised at some of the outbursts, but I am.

The iphone looks lovely - all apple products do. Battery life is something I'd be concerned about, having had an ipod for two years. It's bad enough your music running out in the middle of a train or plane ride without it meaning that you can't make that important phone call when you get there....

Also, even as a consumer/end user non programmer/developer, my over-riding impression of apple stuff is that they don't like you to add programs, hardware, anything to it - they like selling you a closed system with occassion software intergated updates. I would have thought that aspect alone would have kept many posters here on the 800 "side".

I think the biggest effect the iphone will have is on sales of ipods anyway!

Me persoanlly, I'm sick of my ipod battery draining so fast, can't be bothered to open it up and replace it (will probably become a removable hard drive backup for me now) - was going to look at getting a new one, but will get a couple of 4mg cards for the 800 and put music on that instead.

Texrat

01-10-2007, 11:50 AM

Milhouse

01-10-2007, 12:04 PM

But the iPhone has made so much more innovations on the user interface, compared to the 770/N800. Why can't I read my newspaper articles on the 770's browser in portrait mode???
...
I also expect to ditch my 770 + SE phone combo for the iPhone when it comes out.

That must be one hell of a newspaper for you to ditch a fantastic high resolution display in preference to a much lower resolution device simply because your favourite newspapers website doesn't format it's pages properly and they format better on the low res device.

While I admit a portrait mode for the N800 would be useful (as indeed 180 degree rotation would be useful for lefties, though portrait is probably more effort) I'm not sure I'd ditch the 770/N800 for an expensive and compromised phone/browser combo simply because the iPhone's lower resolution display means it doesn't have such a large right hand border due to the poorly formatted written pages of your newpaper website. Bizarre.

andygates

01-10-2007, 01:02 PM

I love the smell of an OS holy war in the morning. Smells like... geekery.

Tell you what, though, the accelerometer in the iPhone to tell what orientation it's at - that's a neat idea. Now someone's gonna tell me there's one in the 770 and, like the mic, I just didn't know it was there? :)

Dirk

01-10-2007, 01:08 PM

.. simply because your favourite newspapers website doesn't format it's pages properly and they format better ..

I format those pages myself with a custom css file. The resulting columns then match the format (width, type, size) of a real newspaper, thus the articles are as easily to read as expected. And I'm entirely satisfied with this, such that I always have my 770 with me.

But for other applications such as email, rss and calendering the 770's performance sucks. The only default application that works ok for me is not from Nokia but Opera.

I still like my 770, but I'm not going to get a N800 if it's internet applications remain crippled. The iPhone will not do everything right either, but Apple seems to understand that the key internet application is not only browsing, but also email.

NokNok770

01-10-2007, 01:11 PM

Dispite not being too fond of Nokia right now for not supporting 2007 os on 770, I would never buy an iPhone. I don't have that kind of money to throw away, but if I did I would get one. It's too expensive, too proprietary, too locked down, DRMed to death probably. But like I said, if I had money to throw away I would get it and every accessories for it....

NokNok770

01-10-2007, 01:18 PM

Karel Jansens

01-10-2007, 01:36 PM

You know what would be cooler than multitouch is something that tracks your eye movement and scroll left, right and up and down automatically as you're looking at the screen. Then screen size would not matter too much.

Dude, that would be so 733T.

It wouldn't work for a micrometer of course, but the idea of a computer image wildly jumping around (as tests have shown, ordinary humans don't keep their eyes fixed when reading or even looking) is sweeet... :rolleyes:

shrimp_was_disabled2

01-10-2007, 05:28 PM

You'll be sorely disappointed, as it's been stated that
Apple will not be allowing third-party development on the iPhone.

That's mostly rumor. Apple hasn't stated anything official about the iPhone 3rd party support. At the very least, you will be able to use widgets on it. No sense in including widgets but only giving people 5 of them. And you can use C code in widgets.

And I bet "runs Mac OSX" is just marketing speak/hype, the truth being somewhat different although it's possible the limited APIs on the iPhone OS are close enough to make it indistinguishable from the desktop OS.

Technically, Apple is right. It does run OS X. It just doesn't run Aqua (which is a good decision). During the keynote, they listed tons of APIs that will be available for OS X to use. Like CoreAnimation and Cocoa. I mean, did you see the demos? It uses some pretty hefty visual UI effects, and we all know that Apple is very good at getting visual effects on slower machines. I've seen G3s run Expose and Dashboard fine. Apple probably has included a graphics memory chip for Quartz.

And why would they announce all the APIs that are included if 3rd parties can't make apps? It doesn't make sense.

However, the iPhone can't run normal desktop apps. They need to specifcally made for the iPhone. Jobs was careful to say that it can run "desktop-class applications" which is much closer to the 770/N800 than most smartphone these days.

If I were you, I wouldn't assume anything about the iPhone. It's been stated from Steve Jobs that the software is still under development. The hardware might even change.

But personally, I think the iPhone fixes what phones have been getting wrong.

It's too expensive, too proprietary, too locked down, DRMed to death probably

You idiot. The iPod/iPhone are all DRM free. If you get something from the iTunes Store, it's DRM'd. Personally, I rip, download and copy all the music that's on my iPod. And the same can be done with videos and photos.

Stop accusing the iPod/iPhone of DRM, it's just not true.

bcvthul

01-10-2007, 05:41 PM

I guess one argument is missing in this thread. The iPhone integrates with your Mac (if you have a Mac of course). All your computer settings and data can be synced (as you, or can, do with your iPod). So updatinging and maintenance is no issue anumore.

I hate to reflash my 770 and I have forget to back up (which you have todo manually)
Or if I had bookmarked a URL on my computer.

For me this is the difference between iPhone and the rest of the world (end discussion, ;) )

Texrat

01-10-2007, 06:30 PM

shrimp, you want everyone to stop accusing the iProducts of suffering DRMitis, but at the same time, you feel justified in calling people here "idiots".

Just a bit hypocritical.

gigabites

01-10-2007, 10:06 PM

I'll eat my hat if the patented Apple touchscreen (which looks remarkably like a flat piece of glass to me) can simulate tactile feedback. But as you say, it's RevA and an Apple device so we'll excuse all it's shortcomings, and by the time RevB is launched it might have mind-control as standard. :) If only people had been so charitable about the ground breaking 770 when it was launched?

It had bad marketing., It was waaaay too geeky.It made no sense to the average person. It playede up the Linux thing too much. No one cares about cli. Except for most people here, Linux is a detractor. Face it, If it's Linux, it's ugly. The people who love it the N770 is because of it's geekiness, because it's Linux based, because it didn't let **any** of nokias design make is less of the ugly duckling that it is. Apple just has better marketing, design aesthetic, mindshare, and well, "cool factor". why do you think no one cares about the Zune?

shrimp_was_disabled2

01-11-2007, 12:05 AM

shrimp, you want everyone to stop accusing the iProducts of suffering DRMitis, but at the same time, you feel justified in calling people here "idiots".

Just a bit hypocritical.
How is that hypocritical? I called him an idiot because he doesn't understand something very simple.

See, if I was hypocritical, I would say something like: "You guys need to be nice! YOUR MOTHER IS STUPID!" Now, that would be hypocritical because I would expect something of you that I don't expect from myself. I expect myself to not spout idiotic misinformation, just like I expect others to.

I bet what you meant to say is "shrimp, you are a jerk." Now, if you would've said that, I would've agreed; I am a jerk. However, since you used the word "hypocritical" wrongly ... I will just make fun of you. Like I am.

So if you didn't know what hypocritical means, I hope you do now.

Calling someone an idiot because they spread misinformation is .. well, it's pretty darn justified. Saying that the iPods are inherently DRM'd is wrong. It's not true, it's never been true, there's no reason to even think it ever was true. The iPod is a general mp3 player ... it's just one that ALSO plays DRM'd music from the iTunes store.

Texrat

01-11-2007, 12:53 AM

If you don't see the hypocrisy already, I won't waste my time vainly trying to explain it. Maybe it's too abstract. Perhaps I should make fun of you for being incapable of abstract thinking. Eh... nah.

Regardless, you're in the wrong to wantonly call anyone "idiot". it just so happens that numerous reviews of mp3 players are saying DRM is an issue for the iPod as if it were canon. You can't blame non-iPod users who are bombarded with this if they assume there's some basis in fact. Your ire is better directed at those actually concocting and spreading misinformation, not those exposed to it and passing off casual comments. Beating up on recipients of bad info who unwittingly pass it along is just... idiotic.

Go take a Midol. You'll feel better.

;)

Salidwyn

01-11-2007, 02:11 AM

The iPhone will not do everything right either, but Apple seems to understand that the key internet application is not only browsing, but also email.

What happened to web-based email? I've heard so many people complain and complain and complain about the email app on the 770 when a very simple solution is to use a web based email app. I've used Gmail since it first came out and have been a very happy camper with it. I've avoided Outlook like the plague and the only reason I use it now is because at work, that's the only thing they have for our email. Even still, I've never been a fan.

And even if Apple does manage to get their email app right, by having a lower screen resolution like that, they're sacrificing browsing experience for it.

Don't think I'm anti-Apple or anything. I saw the iPhone and squealed like a little girl but then I looked at the specs and was unfortunately disappointed and concluded that I'd stick with my initial decision to get an N800. What specifically was I disappointed in?

For one, the screen size and resolution. 3.5" at 320x480 is a little too small for my tastes. Second is the lack of stylus. I know it has a touch screen and everything but I'm a huge fan of my tablet and using the pen to navigate with. I love the feel of it and I love writing on it and was excited about the 770 (and more recently the N800) for. So even though it's sexy as hell, those are shortcomings I don't want to have to compromise for.

The open source community still appeals to me even though I've never really used Linux much at all. I tried to get Gentoo working on one of my old computers and there were some negative experiences with that and the fact that it was impossible to get working with the hardware. Plus, since this is still an Apple product and this isn't an open source OS, you guys are also going to be looking at spending extra on the apps you want to go with it.

So like I said, while sexy as hell and I'm happy to see this out, it's too many compromises for me. Though, on the other hand, this will make all the people happy who complain about the fact that the 770/N800 isn't a phone. Now, if you don't like it and can't be content pairing it up with a cell phone when you're away from a WiFi port, go get an iPhone!

Karel Jansens

01-11-2007, 08:14 AM

why do you think no one cares about the Zune?

Because it's DRMmed to the eyelashes.
Because it costs more and does less than any of its competitors.
Because it's an entry into a saturated market segment.

"Cool" really didn't have much to do with its failure.

SeRi@lDiE

01-11-2007, 08:24 AM

Because it's DRMmed to the eyelashes.
Because it costs more and does less than any of its competitors.
Because it's an entry into a saturated market segment.

"Cool" really didn't have much to do with its failure.
Lets not forget the royalty that M$ pays the RIAA for each zune sold... oooo and the B$ song transfer where it will only last ether 3 days or 3 plays which ever comes first and delete it self....
Useles plain and simple useles.

shrimp_was_disabled2

01-11-2007, 06:44 PM

If you don't see the hypocrisy already, I won't waste my time vainly trying to explain it. Maybe it's too abstract. Perhaps I should make fun of you for being incapable of abstract thinking. Eh... nah.

Good coverup. It's too abstract for me? ... so now I'm an idiot? Aren't you being hypocritical now? Or is this too abstract for you? ;)

See, instead of rebuking my point (which I backed up) you made an excuse. This leads me to believe that you have no reason for your point ... or you don't know what "hypocritcal" means. It would have looked better if you just didn't reply at all. Because now you have an empty arguement, and you attack my capablity for "abstract thinking" instead of sticking to the disussion.

Hypocritical means that I would expect something from another person, but I am exempt from it. It's a logical flaw .. you can't abstract it. I expected someone to think for themselves instead of spreading misinformation ... I expect that from myself. I did not expect him to be nice; since I am not.

I never expected someone to act (or think) differently from how I act (or think).

So please explain how this word's meaning could possibly fit with this context, or I will expect you are incapable of grasping the meaing of "hypocritcal."

it just so happens that numerous reviews of mp3 players are saying DRM is an issue for the iPod as if it were canon. You can't blame non-iPod users who are bombarded with this if they assume there's some basis in fact.

So I should support people not thinking for themselves? Ok, I guess I'll kiss and make up. Keep it up buddy! Spread those lies!

Your ire is better directed at those actually concocting and spreading misinformation, not those exposed to it and passing off casual comments. Beating up on recipients of bad info who unwittingly pass it along is just... idiotic.

Actually, I trash people who spread it AND people who blindly follow them. See, these users who just simply take anything anyone says for truth are just as dumb as those who spread it. If the recipient of misinformation is spreading that misinformation, they are responsible for that.

See, if I told you that you can drive a car into a Café .. and you did .. then it's your fault. Because you are responsible for your actions. Of course, I would feel bad because I helped, but ultimately, you are responisble for your actions.

soundwave106

01-11-2007, 08:42 PM

But personally, I think the iPhone fixes what phones have been getting wrong.

For a steep price. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the iPhone will not live up to the hype at least initially. If Microsoft had unveiled a smart phone with the same specs, I think everyone would be pretty critical. Steve Jobs has some sort of cool factor I guess that shields the company from the usual blasting.

The iPhone is a very expensive phone. Most people don't carry expensive phones, it's a niche market. I guess Apple is hoping that multimedia player integration with a phone is what people pay lots of money for.

Personally I disagree. Blackberry's got the business market wrapped up. Why? Corporate email syncing support is excellent. Where's Apple's email support? Not really there. So basically this device is targeting the 25% of smartphone buyers that aren't business. That ain't a lot of people. The competition really is more like the T-Mobile Sidekick / Danger Hiptop crowd. Well, I instinctively like the Hiptop better. The Hiptop costs less and has a nice thumbboard. No wifi but some surfing ability, instead of resizing pages on the phone they are resized on Danger's servers. There's some advantages to that.

This really isn't a web device due to screen resolution. The Nokia Internet Tablet is one of the best pocketable rezes out there, but even 640x480 PDAs are okay for web surfing. 320x480 doesn't cut it. It doesn't look like its positioning itself near UMPCs either. Not very fair to compare these devices.

Maybe this is the expensive start to the more popular mass-market products. Sort of like the iPod evolution. iPod started out very expensive for what you got. As its hard drive size increased, and as Apple introduced flash players, iPod's advantage became clearer. Right now I don't see the iPhone being that great of a product, drop the price a couple hundred (eg into Razr territory) or improve the featurelist and maybe we're talking something.

Texrat

01-12-2007, 12:14 AM

(most of disingenuous nastygram snipped) See, if I told you that you can drive a car into a Café .. and you did .. then it's your fault. Because you are responsible for your actions. Of course, I would feel bad because I helped, but ultimately, you are responisble for your actions.

Ah. I see what kind of person you intend to be here. Well, every group needs one.

shrimp_was_disabled2

01-12-2007, 12:26 AM

Ah. I see what kind of person you intend to be here. Well, every group needs one.
I like the part where you attack me personally instead of actually making a real arguement.

But anyways ... thanks I guess. See you around.

konfoo

01-12-2007, 12:49 AM

Wow, the schoolyard bickering really ruined this thread. But we are on the intarweb, so shout away I guess!

tabletfan

01-12-2007, 01:00 AM

shrimp_was_disabled2

01-12-2007, 01:05 AM

Wow, the schoolyard bickering really ruined this thread. But we are on the intarweb, so shout away I guess!
Is it lonely up there on your high horse?

But seriously, it's not like you're helping by complaining.

konfoo

01-12-2007, 01:17 AM

I think the iPhone will succeed. People want a phone that does it all. Just like the phones in Japan where people use them to call, IM, search, use maps, lookup train schedules, listen to music, watch video, and play games. My Japanese phone does all of those things (I live in America but travel to Japan 3-4 times a year). Having 3-4 devices in your pocket is not what I want.

Yes it will. People complain about the high entry price but it really is first generation. I have been working in the Digital TV field now for about 12 years. The first PCI tuner boards we had cost around $10k a pop and were actually two full length PCI cards. Now you can pick these up on a usb keychain for @ $50.

The same is true for all new technology as niche as this market.

And to the people that whine and complain and can't make up their minds - early adopters get screwed. Deal with it.

Milhouse

01-12-2007, 02:37 AM

Considering Apple expect to flog 10 million of these iPhones, I wouldn't call it a niche product!

freeman

01-12-2007, 03:36 AM

I don't get it, why did you guys go gaga about the Apple iphone, just because it made by Apple? A lock down phone. Common, FIC Neo 1973 look even better in spec. http://linuxdevices.com/news/NS2986976174.html
For $350, it will be more like a 770 w/ smaller screen, but bigger than iPhone a.k.a. VGA resolution
linux kernel 2.6.17
64MB Flash, 128MB RAM
GPS and Quad GSM
Although no BT/Wifi, but the upgrade model will be.
when plug into the USB, it have network emu.
It has OpenMoKo project similar to Maemo project.

aflegg

01-12-2007, 05:06 AM

freeman

01-12-2007, 05:14 AM

What makes the iPhone stand out is the UI. Neither OpenMoKo/FIC or Maemo/N800 come anywhere near the level of thought that has gone into the iPhone's UI.

It's just a shame it's a locked down, overly expensive, restrictive piece of kit.

And that make it impossible for somebody to make a skin/shell on the OpenMoKo?
What worse is, that most people haven't even touch neither the FIC Neo phone or Apple iPhone yet, and they already made their conclusion that the Apple is better. I'll give a benefit of the doubt that Apple OSX is slick, but that doesn't neccessary mean it will be the same experience on the iPhone, nor there could be a better UI made by other phone company.

aflegg

01-12-2007, 05:33 AM

freeman,

It's not just a skin or shell, it's the level of thought that's gone into producing an easy to use, visually appealing, consistent, integrated interface (from the videos, anyway).

If/when someone produces videos showing the same or higher level of eye candy, integrated interface and powerful UI on the OpenMoKo, people will get excited over that too[1].

Apple have raised the bar, to say otherwise is disingenuous.

Cheers,

Andrew

[1] Although less so: FIC's a smaller company than Apple - but Apple have worked hard to get the reputation and hype they now get. FIC can't expect the same level of media exposure having just started.

soundwave106

01-12-2007, 10:26 AM

Considering Apple expect to flog 10 million of these iPhones, I wouldn't call it a niche product!

That's Steve Jobs' sales persuasion for ya. :) IMHO Apple's dreaming right now, given the price and competition. Though it certainly might follow the iPod path and become big later.

The clincher's gonna be the UI. It *has* to be good. If it sucks, folks are going to stick to the Sidekicks and Blackberries. I don't think its a good idea to comment on a UI, personally, before it is released. The Blackberry UI is pretty good from what I know, but really optimized for business. OTOH what I've heard of the Sidekick UI suggests it kind of lacks.

tabletfan

01-12-2007, 12:21 PM

The NYTimes tech editor has some hands-on information:

http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/01/09/some-hands-on-time-with-the-iphone/

Texrat

01-12-2007, 12:25 PM

I like the part where you attack me personally instead of actually making a real arguement.

But anyways ... thanks I guess. See you around.

Attack? Not in my post. Just an observation, shrimp, and the bulk of it left untyped. I was actually fishing for a paranoid response, and it looks like I had the right bait.

;)

Texrat

01-12-2007, 12:27 PM

Wow, the schoolyard bickering really ruined this thread. But we are on the intarweb, so shout away I guess!

Well, the internet IS Serious Business. ;)

Reggie

01-12-2007, 12:33 PM

Guys, personal attacks have no place here in iTT. The forum has a private messaging system. Take them offline.

Thanks.

Arjun

01-12-2007, 01:03 PM

Guys, personal attacks have no place here in iTT. The forum has a private messaging system. Take them offline.

Thanks.

;) ;)

Way to go ! ! ! Kudos ! ! !
Reggie.

I personally think that the two great people should exchange phone numbers, connect Voice Recorders to their phone and yell at each other to their hearts content ( maybe for a couple of hours ).

Finally, they should make available, the Audio File of their ranting, raving and yelling, here at ITT so that we can all enjoy it and decide who did the best. :D :D :D

Texrat

01-12-2007, 01:29 PM

If you're including my participation in that observation, do note that all I was doing initially was taking the instigator to task for namecalling, and I didn't do any ranting afterwards. Not my style. ;)

Milhouse

01-12-2007, 01:54 PM

That's Steve Jobs' sales persuasion for ya. :) IMHO Apple's dreaming right now, given the price and competition. Though it certainly might follow the iPod path and become big later.

If he's quoted 10m to the press and the public it's likely he's touting similar numbers to the mobile networks as well. If he doesn't hit the 10m target he may have to face some awkward questions.

It may be a sales pitch, but there's serious business riding on Apple hitting that target so I can only assume he's serious about selling 10m and it's not just a figure he plucked from the air to make a good soundbite. :)

freeman

01-12-2007, 02:43 PM

No, I don't think he is quoting that to the press, I think he is telling the fan boys/girls, that they all need to buy more than 1 to make sure it hit that 10 mill target.

jnack95

01-12-2007, 02:51 PM

It's truly amazing what flashy marketing can do. The iPhone does look like a nice unit but the N800 is here now, cheaper, and frickin awesome. Plus it's non-proprietary and scalable. I'm sure apple will do fine though.

Milhouse

01-12-2007, 03:24 PM

No, I don't think he is quoting that to the press, I think he is telling the fan boys/girls, that they all need to buy more than 1 to make sure it hit that 10 mill target.

It was clearly stated in his very public keynote. I doubt he's going to quote such numbers publicly then turn around and say to the press "Actually it might be closer to *cough* a couple of million *cough* but lets keep that between ourselves, we don't want to mention that to the stock investors."

No, he's giving the same number to everyone. If he starts quoting different numbers to those given in his keynote, that will begin to erode his credibility somewhat. What else can we then expect to be downscaled from the keynote - battery life, features, size (increased)?

And I doubt most of us can afford one iPhone, let alone multiple! :)

gigabites

01-13-2007, 04:44 AM

hmmm

apple sold a little computer with no floppy drive, no firewire, no scsi, no upgradability, very litle ram, very little Vram, a small hard drive, and no second mouse button. Yet they sold a butt-load of iMacs. And each revision got better than the last. Same with the iPod.The detractors said that it was too bulky, had a small storage capacity to say a nomad or a zen, short battery life, stupid circular interface, and way too expensive. Guess what sells better, iPods or *anything* from iriver? Sure the iphone is not as good as some things and better than others. But it is the first. It can only get better.

What I am more interested in seeing are the doomed imitations. Those are the best! Remember when the lamp-style imac came out and I think it was dell who tried to make an all-in-one that hopped in the commercial? No one bought it. When I think Toshiba made their brushed chrome 17" laptop that sold at Best Buy, again no one bought it. What ever happened to Microsoft’s Origami? I can't even begin to point out the imitators of the ipod.

Milhouse

01-13-2007, 05:01 AM

There's no doubt the iPhone is a nice looking phone, but the initial response is a over the top, much as you might expect with any new Apple product these days. It is, after all, just a pretty looking phone with a touch screen, audio/video player and some eye candy - not unlike quite a few other phones that are available today for much less. I own such a phone, a SonyEricsson W950i, 4GB Walkman missing only the eye candy and good looks! And trust me, only once you've used a touchscreen phone can you appreciate they're not actually that nice to use - I'll be giving up the W950i for something like a N95 as soon as I can!

If and when the iPhone comes down in price, and gains 3G/HSDPA support, I may even be tempted myself but that touchscreen and UI had better be good to change my mind! But for now no thanks - I'm definately not interested.

Initially the iPhone will sell as a fashion/vanity phone, similar to the low volume Nokia 8800 Scirocco phones (look very nice but are way overpriced), and only when they become more reasonably priced (with better high-speed connectivity) will they stand a chance of becoming an "everyday" mobile phone, and sell in truly vast quantities.

freeman

01-13-2007, 01:14 PM

Initially the iPhone will sell as a fashion/vanity phone
you for got the must-have for fanboys/girls.

freeman

01-13-2007, 01:19 PM

What I am more interested in seeing are the doomed imitations. Those are the best! Remember when the lamp-style imac came out and I think it was dell who tried to make an all-in-one that hopped in the commercial? No one bought it. When I think Toshiba made their brushed chrome 17" laptop that sold at Best Buy, again no one bought it. What ever happened to Microsoft’s Origami? I can't even begin to point out the imitators of the ipod.
Nokia IT doesn't sell that well, either. I mean, we all have one right, but from the outside eyes, these thing doesn't sell much. In the public eyes, it can only surf the web, IM and make IP call, a PDA is much more functional and cheaper also. Not to mention for $400, add another hundred and you can get yourself a laptop. I'm not discrediting the IT, it has its place, but not to the general public.