Vote for quick release of Maemo 6 (N900 PR 1.1 disappointing)

[ralnaghi]

Today iPhone and N97 are loaded with applications... It's not about the hardware/OS only, Nokia should understand that without the software and the comprehensive applications on the N900 it's like having a Ferrari without seats and a stereo system... by the time the fixes and the apps will be out probably iPhone will have a new higher generation of phones. This is not a Marathon... It's a Sprint when it comes to technology.

[RevdKathy]

You do realise that maemo 6 likely won't run on your n900 and you'll have to buy a new device? Certainly it won't run in it's present stage of development.

Besides which, part of the reason that n900 is still uncomplete is arguably because they released it too soon. You want them to release Maemo6 in a worse state?

[ralnaghi]

if Maemo 6 wont run on N900 then what are we waiting for?

[d-iivil]

if Maemo 6 wont run on N900 then what are we waiting for?

Ummm... nothing? Some fixes and more apps to Maemo 5?

[robbie]

WE are not waiting. At least i'm not.

[ralnaghi]

Ummm... nothing? Some fixes and more apps to Maemo 5?

that's really not cool at all... considering the promotion and the way the phone was promoted, it's really disappointing, to have such a powerful phone with so little to do with it... and most of all missing alot of key features that a 20$ phone can give u...

[benny1967]

if Maemo 6 wont run on N900 then what are we waiting for?

Wrong question.

What are you waiting for? ;)

I'm more than happy with my current collection of S60 and Maemo devices. There are a few feature I miss in the one but find in the other... Yes, there's always room for improvement and if someone would ask me, I sure have a wish list. But overall there's nothing I'm waiting for. Things are fine as they are now.

[ralnaghi]

WE are not waiting. At least i'm not.

good that you're not, but if you have n900 u're really missing alot of features that many cheaper phones can give u...

So, don't wait for Nokia to do anything about it.

[jnack95]

good that you're not, but if you have n900 u're really missing alot of features that many cheaper phones can give u...

So, don't wait for Nokia to do anything about it.

Like what? What is it you really want to do (besides whine)?

[dwould]

the only thing i'm waiting for is flash 10.1 to be released for n900.
everything else is just fine thanks.
sure i want more interesting apps, but if i could thik of one right now i really wanted...i'd start writing it.

[borghal]

Troll joined January 2010? Don't feed 'em ;)

[ruskie]

Another person to put on ignore for doing totaly useless posts.

[colnago]

I think Nokia understands that Apple gets 30% of the $200mil US/mo revenue, generated by "3rd party vendors" in the app store (per recent CNBC report "Planet of the apps"). The cost:benefit ratio of trying to develop "in house" is most likely not feasible. Don't forget, if they develop apps, they would need additional resources to support them.

I'm really waiting for the ability to connect to my sling box, but that's not Nokia's responsibility.

[sadfist]

Unfortunately I suspect this is going to be a common reaction to the device from end-users. To a certain extent they're right. The big N900 showcase blowing up the Nokia Store window here sure doesn't say "This is an early adopter device, step 4 out of 5, etc.".

EDIT: Actually I guess it might, I didn't look in the bottom corner of the window for small print :D

[jaysire]

And to play devil's advocate: What makes you think Maemo6 will have any more apps at launch? I'm not at all disappointed with the update. It made my device super snappy and essentially filled the gaps I felt were there in the earlier Firmware versions.

This is a Linux device and the only fulfillment that it will provide is for people nerdishly wanting a Linux device to hack around with. If you expected anything more than an N810 with a phone, you're gonna get disappointed.

Now, I would caution anyone wanting to believe Maemo6 will provide more than that... Don't get your (false) hopes up.

[osfight.de]

Report This | #1
Today iPhone and N97 are loaded with applications... It's not about the hardware/OS only, Nokia should understand that without the software and the comprehensive applications on the N900 it's like having a Ferrari without seats and a stereo system... by the time the fixes and the apps will be out probably iPhone will have a new higher generation of phones. This is not a Marathon... It's a Sprint when it comes to technology.


After releasing two firmware upgrades and opening the Ovi store in the last two weeks Nokia made a huge step forward and took a lot of wind out of the sails of complainers. Your requests are somewhat justifiable but the way they are demanded totally ridiculous.

For your recall: The phone was released not even six weeks ago, (compare the Iphone - exactly three years ago). Now think about your statement, let me know if you need an explanation.

[RevdKathy]

Well, let's see:

MMS - coming through the community (fMMS)
Personalised ringtones - coming via the community (tweakr)
Custom profiles - coming via the community (shepherd)
More games - coming via the community (sheep!!)

Rereading the first post it seems to me the problem the OP is having is with the rather empty shelves of the Ovi store, and not anything to do with n900 at all - "Loaded with apps"? But n900 was never advertised as having 'loads of apps' because it's a new platform. Of course, Maemo 6 will be back to square one mostly, for apps, except for those Maemo 5 app written in Qt and portable.

[Snaps]

firstly its plain stupid to compare the N900 to iPhone, especially when it comes to Apps. N900 has only been on the market for 1 1/2 months, while iPhone has been around for years.

Secondly, the N900 IS NOT A PHONE. Its an "internet tablet", but basically its a micro PC with Linux installed. It only has phone capabilities. Which is minimal anyway. But I dont care, I only want a phone which can make phone calls and send texts.

Do you REALLY care that it doesnt have MMS, or more profiles etc? Really, you buy a phone for THAT?

The N900 is a great phone, and Maemo 5 is just excellent.

If you dont like it, then sell it and buy a gayPhone. Were not stopping you

[ndi]

No.

Incomplete is bad. Let them finish it. Complain it's not here, make it here. Complain it's too slow, rush them. When it's out, complain it misses features other have. At least this way there' only one complaint type. I'd much rather they release it when it's ready. I mean, really ready.

--

Also, the fact that it provides not features $20 phones have is simply wrong, to be polite. A $20 car can be fixed for $2, it does not mean that a $2.000.000 car is bad because it can't do that. It's not like it's less than a $20 phone, it offers other stuff the others don't like A-GPS and stuff. And if you think that delayed 3G video call is more important than A-GPS, then sell the damned device. What are you doing buying an N900 Linux tablet if you want a phone?

That's like saying the Bugatti Veyron can't go over bumps. If you go over bumps, you bought the wrong car. Get an SUV. It makes sense.

[benny1967]

Secondly, the N900 IS NOT A PHONE. Its an "internet tablet", ...

The N900 is a great phone, ...

Try again.

[jreznik]

What features? Any idea to hack on would be nice for me ;-) And it's useless to work on useless but shiny nice apps but work on really needed stuff...

[Snaps]

Try again.

:p lolcakes

you know what i mean anyway

[HRZ]

I'm only waiting for official apps/plugin for MSN/QQ. Or at least something stable. it would definitely be nice to get portrait mode for UI menu and SMS but it's not a necessity and from what most are saying it probably won't happen. oh well. cant have everything.

I still havent tested the battery after this update but many are saying it's improved so I'm glad to hear that. on a negative note, I've read a lot of problems with a WLAN bug after updating but still havent tried wireless yet so can't verify that problem for me.

[RevdKathy]

My battery seems a lot better. It's getting a lot of hammering today because of a pastoral crisis, but looking very good.

[HangLoose]

ferrari's usually dont come with sound system...

they think that if you buy that kind of car you should listen to the engine. brilliant idea imo..

so you analogy is partially flawed. maybe you should have mentioned a mercedes or volvo.

[Laughing Man]

I'm only waiting for official apps/plugin for MSN/QQ. Or at least something stable. it would definitely be nice to get portrait mode for UI menu and SMS but it's not a necessity and from what most are saying it probably won't happen. oh well. cant have everything.

Does Microsoft even publish an official spec for MSN api? I was under the impression that most clients out there are just reverse-engineering of the protocal (hence their unreliability at times).

[mason]

You do realise, even with a Maemo6 release next week, you still won't have one more app! ;)

[HRZ]

Does Microsoft even publish an official spec for MSN api? I was under the impression that most clients out there are just reverse-engineering of the protocal (hence their unreliability at times).

which is why I also said "or something stable"

[Bec]

that's really not cool at all... considering the promotion and the way the phone was promoted, it's really disappointing, to have such a powerful phone with so little to do with it... and most of all missing alot of key features that a 20$ phone can give u...
good that you're not, but if you have n900 u're really missing alot of features that many cheaper phones can give u...
So, don't wait for Nokia to do anything about it.
Like?
Don't know any phones to have a real operating system yet...

Vote for quick release of Maemo 6 (PR 1.1 disappointing)
Today iPhone and N97 are loaded with applications... It's not about the hardware/OS only, Nokia should understand that without the software and the comprehensive applications on the N900 it's like having a Ferrari without seats and a stereo system... by the time the fixes and the apps will be out probably iPhone will have a new higher generation of phones. This is not a Marathon... It's a Sprint when it comes to technology.
I'm sorry but your thread makes no sense. You create a discussion about an os version that doesn't exist yet (or is in the making) which is kinda like saying why upgrade from windows 98 to xp since vista is coming anyways in 6 years (yes, the comparison is too dramatic) and then start talking about applications.

It seems to me not even you know what you want; I'd say this thread should be moved but we don't yet have a "makes no sense" category.

[jerryfreak]

what a buncha trolls on this thread

[pagesix1536]

Today iPhone and N97 are loaded with applications... It's not about the hardware/OS only, Nokia should understand that without the software and the comprehensive applications on the N900 it's like having a Ferrari without seats and a stereo system... by the time the fixes and the apps will be out probably iPhone will have a new higher generation of phones. This is not a Marathon... It's a Sprint when it comes to technology.

Dude, just stop...it's old and tired and boring to read now, these topics of whining about OS and the new patch.

[planetf1]

Apologies for repeating something I mentioned on another thread, but getting back to the initial question (if not the same background)

I happen to think that the market has evolved. Android devices are now being regularly updated by google, and even WinMob machines are now being upgraded (in some cases) to newer OS levels. iPhone of course has been doing this too, through hw revisions.

so all the key competition is ALREADY allowing OS updates on existing devices. Maemo is pushing the boundaries for openness and trying to push market share. for Nokia to cut off a large installed base by not updating the OS is in my view suicidal. We may as well head off to Android right now.

[romanianusa]

The only killer software missing is a COOL Map Nav w/ VOICE.

[colnago]

Apologies for repeating something I mentioned on another thread, but getting back to the initial question (if not the same background)

I happen to think that the market has evolved. Android devices are now being regularly updated by google, ...

Are you referring to the Dec. and Jan. updates for the Droid, that were already mapped out at the devices release in Nov., to resolve its numerous issues?


Informative Notifications

Informative Notifications

Bluetooth Carkit Compatibility
The Bluetooth compatibility matrix
Accessories
The A855 has magnetic sensors to support operation with car holder and desktop cradle accessories. Holsters and cases that contain magnets are not to be used as they can cause false switches into car or desktop cradle modes. Refer the customer to case SKUs MOTA855CAS and PDASDPCH6.
Wired headsets have a higher volume than Bluetooth headsets.
Applications
Non-VZW Branded Applications
Google Maps can take several minutes to display the proper location and may be inaccurate when initially started. Accuracy can be improved by enabling GPS satellites by pressing the MENU button, select Settings, select Location & security settings and then select Use GPS satellites.
NOTE: Enabling this setting will have a negative impact to battery life.
11/8/09 - Google Search does not support voice input via Bluetooth headsets.
11/8/09 - Quick Office supports Microsoft Excel, Microsoft Power Point, Microsoft Word and Adobe PDF files. Quick Office is included in the device software and will not be removed when a Factory data reset is performed.


VZW Branded Applications
Wi-Fi access for Visual Voice Mail is currently not supported.
Activation/Over the Air Software Upgrades
Customers moving from a BREW device who subscribe to notifications (alerts) will need to have BREW block enabled to prevent notifications from being delivered to the device.
The Over the Air software updates will not display the maximum time required.
When using Factory data reset to initialize the device, it can take several minutes to complete. The reset will complete in the background.
POP3 Email
§ Yahoo email accounts are not supported.
11/9/09 - Setup instructions for free and premium Yahoo accounts can be found at the link below.
http://infomanager.vzwcorp.com/news_...news_id=138458



Exchange Active Sync
The initial sync after an Exchange Active Sync account is created can take up to 15 minutes. In order for the calendar to be synced the first time, the customer must open the Corporate Calendar application.
Exchange Active Sync email cannot download attachments greater than 10MB.
Exchange Active Sync emails forwarded from the device are sent as EML attachments. EML is a common email file format. This may be blocked by some corporate IT security polices.
You cannot search Exchange Active Sync emails and calendar events.
11/9/09 - Searching Exchange Active Sync emails and calendar events is not supported.
11/9/09 - A move option is not supported for emails.
11/9/09 - The Motorola Droid supports Exchange Active Sync email with the features described in the embedded matrix.


Media
There is no stop button for the music player. Customers must press Pause and then Back or Home to exit.
Battery life
11/9/09 - The tips and hints below will help better manage battery life.
It may take several charging cycles for the battery to reach optimum performance.
The battery charger shipped with this device is a high rate charger specifically designed for the Motorola Droid.
The Power Control Widget displays a quick snapshot of some of the tools that can be optimized to conserve your battery. The widget provides information on Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, Location (GPS), Synchronization, and Display. To add the Widget, from the home screen, touch Menu => Add => Widgets => Power Control.
The Battery Use feature provides a real time view of what features or applications are using the highest percentage of battery. It also provides tips on modifying these features or applications, e.g. click on Display to change reduce brightness and/or screen timeout. To access Battery Use, from the home screen, touch Menu => Settings => About Phone = > Battery use.
Turn Wi-Fi and Bluetooth off when not in use.
If using Exchange Active Sync email, change settings to download email less frequently. Press Menu => Account Settings =>Email check frequency.
Close any third party applications running in the background that are not needed.
Messaging
To forward a message, press the message to access the individual message from the threaded view. Press and hold the message you wish to forward. The Message options are displayed which include Forward.
To send videos via MMS, you can use either of these options:
Video Camcorder Options: Video quality set to Low (for MMS messages) and Video duration set to 30 seconds (for MMS).
Messaging Composer: Options => Attach => Capture video.
When entering in message text, the character count is not displayed until the first segment (160 characters) is filled.
Pictures taken in portrait mode are rotated 90 degrees when sending via MMS.
There are no callback numbers extracted for messages received from vtext.com.
EMS is not supported, SMS messages in excess of 160 characters are converted to MMS messages.
JPG images in MMS sent from vzwpix.com are displayed as a slide show.
SMS and MMS message priority indications are not supported.
11/9/09 - MMS with multiple images may be automatically displayed sequentially and resemble a video.
Operation
The device will power on when connected to a charger.
There are separate volume settings for on call, ringer and media playback.
If a customer places 3 or more calls to the same number, the number will be automatically added into the Favorites contact section. This is indicated by a gold star.
11/9/09 - Audio playback can co-exist with other applications such as YouTube streaming video, music, Visual Voice Mail, Google Maps Turn-by-Turn or Google Air. Audio from both sources will not be heard by the user and caller unless on speakerphone.
11/9/09 - There are no native applications for task management and file explorer. Free applications can be downloaded from Android Market to perform these functions.
11/8/09 - Audio playback can co-exist with other applications such as YouTube streaming video, music, Visual Voice Mail, Google Maps Turn-by-Turn or Google Air. Audio from both sources will be heard.
11/8/09 - There are no native applications for task management and file explorer. Suggested free applications that can be downloaded from Android Market are ReChild, Advanced Task Killer Free and Speed Software Explorer.
11/8/09 - Web browser can give an error "The content is not supported" error when trying to open Adobe Flash content. The Motorola Droid supports Flash Lite content. If the customer is prompted to download an upgrade, it will be stored to the SD card, but cannot be installed. The upgrade will have no effect.
11/8/09 - Wi-Fi supported modes:
WEP64
WEP128
WPA-PSK
WPA2-PSK
802.1x Enterprise (certificate required)
11/8/09 - Voice command operation cannot be initiated by pressing the Bluetooth headset multi-function button. The customer will need to select the Voice Dialer application from the home screen. The customer will then say one of the following commands:
Call
Dial
Call voicemail
Redial
Open Calendar
Depending on the voice command, the customer will be displayed a list of choices on the UI to select from. A customer can use Bluetooth to input Voice commands.

11/9/09 - Android keyboard functionality for Quick fixes, Show suggestions and Auto-complete are only supported on the touch QWERTY keyboard.

11/9/09 - If a customer forgets their touch swipe unlock pattern and they do not have a Google email account, a hard reset can be done to regain access to the device. This will remove all user content from the device.
Turn off the Motorola Droid.
Press the Power button and the "x" on the hardware keyboard at the same time to power on and bring up the recovery screen.
Press the Volume Up and Camera buttons at the same time to show the recovery menu.
Select "Wipe data/factory reset".
Select "Reboot Phone".
11/9/09 - If a customer selects multiple emails and rotates the Motorola Droid, the selections will be undone.


Known Issues

Accessories

If a 2.5 mm headset adapter is connected to the A855, with no wired headset connected, when the adapter is disconnected the Media Player is launched.

Short term work around: The customer needs to ensure that the adapter and headset are removed at the same time.
Planned Resolution: A fix for this issue will be included in a maintenance release of software for this device. The target date for the next release of software is December 11, 2009.


Applications


Non-VZW Branded Applications

Exchange Active Sync Email: Personal folders and subfolders are shown on the same level, e.g. they are not nested.
Short term work around: There is no known work around.
Planned Resolution: A fix for this issue will be included in a maintenance release of software for this device. The target date for the next release of software is January 22, 2010.

Exchange Active Sync Email: Sending is done in the background, but no visible icon or notice is displayed to the customer.
Short term work around: There is no known work around.

Planned Resolution: A fix for this issue will be included in a maintenance release of software for this device. The target date for the next release of software is December 11, 2009.
Exchange Active Sync Calendar: Editing recurring appointments with large invite lists can cause a lock-up.
Short term work around: Have the customer use their PC or web application to edit recurring appointments. The customer can power cycle the device to recover.

Planned Resolution: A fix for this issue will be included in a maintenance release of software for this device. The target date for the next release of software is January 22, 2010.
Exchange Active Sync Email: You cannot accept a calendar appointment received via email.

Short term work around: The customer can accept or decline the meeting invite by accessing it under the Corporate Calendar application.
Planned Resolution: A fix for this issue will be included in a maintenance release of software for this device. The target date for the next release of software is January 22, 2010.

11/9/09 - Exchange Active Sync/Google Mail: Messages sent from the A855 only support picture attachments; no other types of attachments are supported. A customer can share videos and pictures under the Gallery. To share, press and hold a picture or video until the options menu is displayed then select Share. The customer can then choose how they want to send the attachment. Sharing supports Exchange Active Sync email, Google email and MMS.

Short term work around: There is no known work around.
Planned Resolution: A fix for this issue will be included in a maintenance release of software for this device. The target date for the next release of software is January 22, 2010.
Branded Application
Visual Voice Mail: On some occasions, notifications of new messages may be delayed.

Short term work around: There is no known work around.
Planned Resolution: A fix for this issue will be included in a maintenance release of software for this device. The target date for the next release of software is December 11, 2009.
Bluetooth
Videos Transferred via Bluetooth to the A855: The video information screen will contain an incorrect date and/or time. NOTE: To view the date/time, go to the Gallery and select Bluetooth. Press and hold a video until the Video options are displayed and select Details. The time and / or date stamp will be incorrect.

Short term work around: There is no known work around.
Planned Resolution: A fix for this issue will be included in a maintenance release of software for this device. The target date for the next release of software is December 11, 2009.


Call Features - 3 Way Calling
This feature does not work in select markets where the user has to press Send first to initiate a 3 way call. The device currently does not support the Send key FLASH function.

Short term work around: There is no known work around.
Planned Resolution: A fix for this issue will be included in a maintenance release of software for this device. The target date for the next release of software is December 11, 2009.
If a Call Waiting call is received prior to the 3 Way Call, 3 Way Calls cannot be established for the duration of the call.
Short term work around: The customer will need to end the call and retry the 3 way call.

Planned Resolution: A fix for this issue will be included in a maintenance release of software for this device. The target date for the next release of software is December 11, 2009.

When a 3 Way Call is established, the UI still shows an option to + Add call. Selecting this soft key while on a 3 way call will have no effect.
Short term work around: There is no known work around.
Planned Resolution: A fix for this issue will be included in a maintenance release of software for this device. The target date for the next release of software is December 11, 2009.
...

[colnago]

(cont...)

...Messaging

Messaging Character Count: When entering in message text, the character count is not displayed until the first segment (160 characters) is filled. The display will first display XX/1, until 11 characters are entered. The customer will then see 144/2, which will decrease as characters are entered.
Short term work around: There is no known work around.
Planned Resolution: A fix for this issue will be included in a maintenance release of software for this device. The target date for the next release of software is December 11, 2009.

11/9/09 - Incorrect Message Delivery: Very intermittently, if a contact has the area code enclosed with parentheses, the destination number area code maybe replaced with the sender's area code. This can also occur with 7 digit mobile numbers or numbers prefixed with *. Message delivery failures can occur.

Short term work around: Remove all parentheses associated with the area code from the customer's contacts. All 7 digit contact numbers must be changed to include the area code.
Planned Resolution: A fix for this issue will be included in a maintenance release of software for this device. The target date for the next release of software is December 11, 2009.
Operation

Contact Transfer: Contacts cannot be transferred via Bluetooth.
Short term work around: Customer content (non-DRM or protected) and contacts can be transferred via the Cellebrite tool.
Planned Resolution: A fix for this issue will be included in a maintenance release of software for this device. The target date for the next release of software is January 22, 2010.

Initial Activation & Incoming Calls/Messages: It can take up to 3 minutes before an incoming call can be answered or messages received. Outgoing calls can be placed and the customer can also send messages.
Short term work around: After the activation is complete, power cycle the device.

Planned Resolution: A fix for this issue will be included in a maintenance release of software for this device. The target date for the next release of software is December 11, 2009.

Camera Auto Focus: Intermittently, pressing the camera button half way results in red corner lines. This is an indication that the auto focus was not successful.
Short term work around: Auto focus may take more than one attempt.
Planned Resolution: A fix for this issue will be included in a maintenance release of software for this device. The target date for the next release of software is December 11, 2009.

Far End Echo: The calling or called party to/from a Motorola A855 may notice their voice being echoed back into their earpiece.
Short term work around: The customer will need to power cycle their Motorola A855.

Planned Resolution: A fix for this issue will be included in a maintenance release of software for this device. The target date for the next release of software is December 11, 2009

[planetf1]

Not just the droid, but the fact the G1 is getting updated to 2.1, as is the HTC hero, and I think other devices too.

Sure one could argue that Android needs the fixes, but I don't think that's all that different from the position with Maemo/N900. Nor indeed the iPhone

[colnago]

Not just the droid, but the fact the G1 is getting updated to 2.1, as is the HTC hero, and I think other devices too.

Sure one could argue that Android needs the fixes, but I don't think that's all that different from the position with Maemo/N900. Nor indeed the iPhone

My point was that your statement seemed like the recent Android updates were for user/OS "enhancement", when in fact, they were more for "problem resolution", for a known problematic product, before its release. I'll take an email client that actually gets email when its supposed to over "animated wall papers" any time. The Droid had/has more issues out of the box than the 900, and Google/Motorola aren't doing anything above and beyond what Nokia are doing, nor any faster.

As for all those "thousands of Android/iPhone apps", the vast majority are not coming from Google nor Apple respectively...they are coming from the community and 3rd party vendors.

Nokia is not doing anything different.

[geneven]

In the interest in the environment, I move that we release the 2020 cars next year instead of waiting till 2020. Think of the progress!

[colnago]

I move that Microsoft release Windows 9 now, so that I can utilize that dual octo-core processor motherboard...that's not out yet. That way developers can write more games that utilize the extra processing power.

...and while they're at it, all the wireless carriers can just "go ahead and turn on 4G nationwide".

[bandora]

Nokia is doing a big mistake not producing the Nokia Morph!!! </sarcasm>

COME ON NOKIA WHERE'S THE MORPH

[twaelti]

Today iPhone and N97 are loaded with applications... It's not about the hardware/OS only, Nokia should understand that without the software and the comprehensive applications on the N900 it's like having a Ferrari without seats and a stereo system... by the time the fixes and the apps will be out probably iPhone will have a new higher generation of phones. This is not a Marathon... It's a Sprint when it comes to technology.
Go to the wiki and edit the list of applications you're missing.
Instead of clueless whining, do contribute something.

On the positive side, the influx of da fonez streetboyz is clearly a sign of increased marketshare :D

[jcompagner]

I happen to think that the market has evolved. Android devices are now being regularly updated by google, and even WinMob machines are now being upgraded (in some cases) to newer OS levels. iPhone of course has been doing this too, through hw revisions.

i dont agree with a lot of comments made in this thread, but i fully agree with the above statement, N900 should be upgrade able to maemo 6
hardware wise this cant be a big problem, multi touch i can live without.

but it cant be that 1 itteration and we already loose the upgrade ability, this alwas annoyed me in the S60 world. 3 iterations later, and then drop it, ok but not 1 or 2..

if nokia does that (again) i think i will look at what android can give me because at least there i know if i buy a high end device now, i can upgrade for quite sometime.

[ndi]

This is not a Marathon... It's a Sprint when it comes to technology.

You lack a degree in business, apparently. :p

Nobody sprints. It's called marketing. If Nokia sprints and pushes for the very latest, the costs of such an endeavor would be massive, depleting its R&D budget and going ahead for the next 3-6 months. While recuperating, the marathon runners slowly creep up on you and bypass you.

Sooner or later, the efforts put in R&D is going to average out over hops and you realize that to push out a chip before its time you paid thrice. Overall, they have the cash to push forward while you hopelessly huff and puff, panting behind because all your costs are triple and there's no way N900 is going to outsell iPhone by a 400% margin.

Leaping is bad. Slow and steady wins the race. It's a business, and the race is commercial. In the end, whoever has the cash has the technology, the people and the know-how.

Ever saw the Google HDD and CPU storage? They use old, second hand machines. Nokia builds 5$ phones and the 1100 is the best phone ever - sporting two damned pixels and a bad keyboard. The next best seller is the 3310 that has 3 pixels and up/down/ok, it's heavy and stupid. The next best seller ...

It's all about running fastest IF you can keep up and finish the race.

Technological business is NOTHING like a sprint and EVERYTHING like a marathon.

[bonerp]

i dont agree with a lot of comments made in this thread, but i fully agree with the above statement, N900 should be upgrade able to maemo 6
hardware wise this cant be a big problem, multi touch i can live without.

but it cant be that 1 itteration and we already loose the upgrade ability, this alwas annoyed me in the S60 world. 3 iterations later, and then drop it, ok but not 1 or 2..

if nokia does that (again) i think i will look at what android can give me because at least there i know if i buy a high end device now, i can upgrade for quite sometime.

I agree - if Nokia leave me high and dry with the N900 on maemo 5 with little or no support because they release an incompatible maemo 6, I will leave them high and dry and won't be back.

^ should be workable on N900. If thing change like screens etc, make alternative drivers. How hard can it be?!

[planetf1]

Whilst awaiting delivery of my N900 (tomorrow) I'm now seriously wondering whether I did the right thing and whether I should just return it and switch to a platform that at least is supported longer-term

ie Nexus One or followons

Google is proving it will upgrade handsets to newer OS versions

Nokia's in danger of breaking maemo just as it's getting buy-in. This constant switch to the next new thing really gets me.

I got burnt by the N96 dropping VoIP. Now I'm worrying this is happening here.

I have a couple/weeks to return (if unused). Ummm.

[ndi]

I agree - if Nokia leave me high and dry with the N900 on maemo 5 with little or no support because they release an incompatible maemo 6, I will leave them high and dry and won't be back.

^ should be workable on N900. If thing change like screens etc, make alternative drivers. How hard can it be?!

Not VERY hard. But for a few people leaving, there' be few people upgrading to N910. So, you know.

Also, i thought that M6 will run on N900, confirmed by someone at Nokia a few threads back?

[anidel]

The only killer software missing is a COOL Map Nav w/ VOICE.

Looks like they've heard you: http://events.nokia.com/ovimaps
(coming to N900 soon looks like)

[anidel]

Not VERY hard. But for a few people leaving, there' be few people upgrading to N910. So, you know.

Also, i thought that M6 will run on N900, confirmed by someone at Nokia a few threads back?

Last I heard it won't.
M6 will have support for multitouch (brrr) whereas the N900 hardware does not.
They will not release the Maemo 6 OS that's designed around multitouch onto a device that does not support it.

But, they are helping the community get around it. So most probably we'll see Maemo 6 on the N900 thanks to.. us.

Aniello

[Helmuth]

Please not!
They should invest more time to fix the annoying bugs in the released Maemo5 before they spit out a Maemo6.

Many, many things like the eMail IMAP Bug and the one from my signature are targeted to Maemo6. This is not a good idea. We've payed for the devices NOW. But a early release of Maemo6 is not a solution.

[anidel]

You do realize that working on Maemo 6 means bring Maemo 5 forward, do you?
It's not a new entity.

Bugs files for Maemo 5 will likely be fixed into Maemo 6 as well as it's a evolution of Maemo 5.
What will change will be the UI, based on Qt and with new interaction and new widgets... but the core is based on Maemo 5 with all the fixes.

[qole]

I'm only waiting for official apps/plugin for MSN/QQ. Or at least something stable.

The MSN plugin works fine for me... for a long time now... Sometimes I have a "network error" switching from GPRS to wifi, but I can get around that by setting my status to offline, then switching networks, then going back online.

[ndi]

Bugs files for Maemo 5 will likely be fixed into Maemo 6 as well as it's a evolution of Maemo 5.

If there's time. Hence the rushing. Or lack thereof IMO.

[anidel]

Well, they are still working on PR1.2, plenty of bug fixing going on if you ask me.

[jorjino]

Guys,
I am very tired to wait will Nokia or will not do this or that.

I used to use E90, which hardware was perfect, but Nokia was thinking about future deviced and left E90. Now maybe it will happened with N900.

It is very strange how big company can not teach from his own mistakes.

I know that users of E90 and N900 in this case are making a very small marketshare for Nokia, but we are high-end users and we can help and make this devices better. And also we can help for making overal name of Nokia better as big innovative company.

Nokia, on the other hand is trying to save his overall market share with pushing cheep devices. Believe me, the decision-making prosses in cheap devise market is depending of the thing how is the look of the device and most of the people don1t give a s*** is there a OS, is it Symbian, Apple, WebOS or else. What I am trying to tell is that low end users`s decision to by a phone is not a logic process. So these people today can buy Nokia, tomorrow whey will use Samsung, the day after tomorrow - SonyEricsson, then iPhone, and so on.

The high end users are more dependent and trustful to the phone maker which they are using today. They were making a real investigation for most of the features of the device, possibility of future upgrade, also what is the competition serving. So present Nokia high end users if they are sattisfy from Nokia it is more likely to buy his next Nokia device.

I am tire of being a test user with my old E90 and now with my present N900.

I am really dissapointed from Nokia.
If nothing good is happened in next couple of years I am pretty sure that N900 will be my last Nokia device.

Regards.

[ndi]

There's a post here somewhere with the todo-fixme list for Android. It's a s big as N900's. There is no escaping this, they all do that ever since the device can be flashed at home at no cost.

You can berate Nokia and move - see if I care - but if you think you'll be spared you are mistaken. Do you think we like it up the ? It's just that it's still up there no matter where you go. Except I like how the Nokia built the N900 more than I like the HD2, e.g.

I'm not a fanboy. Every time I scout for a new device I look all over. I saved money for the HD2 for 3 months before Nokia announced N900 and the hardware swayed me.

I'm a Windows developer, have been for years, ever since there was Windows and tools to develop. Don't you think I would have liked to write my own than to sit here begging for someone else's free time?

I chose this. You are free to choose whatever you want. Just don't switch over to find out you've been had - and with lost money on a swap. Look before you leap, that's all I'm saying. It's good advice.

[jorjino]

ndi,

You are right - we are jumping in new devices without knowleadge will they be develop or will not.

But as you know Nokia never tells their plans.
We are not a fortune-tellers and don`t know what will come. We just believe that when buy good device from world`s number one phone manufacturer ( still ) we will face same good attitude from him.

That`s all.

Regards.

[johnel]

At risk of feeding some trolls here...


What Nokia do not seem to understand is the success of a platform/os is largely determined by what applications are available for it.

I'm not suggesting or in-fact agreeing with the original poster who started this thread.

Considering how many apps were available at launch was pretty impressive. When Goggle launched the Android platform a couple of years ago only a handful of apps were available at the time.


What I've just said seems to contradict my first paragraph but I Nokia need to take a long-term view of this.

If the next version of maemo is not compatible with the n900 then users and app developers are going to be p***** off with Nokia.

Why?
It means tweaking your developed app to run properly on the next version of maemo when you could be spending that time improving your app.

If maemo 6 will not run on the n900 and you are a current owner you will have to buy a new device and start your nice app collection from scratch.

If Nokia had any sense of the current smartphone market (and it's long-term future) Nokia would ensure that the maemo 6 platform will also run on the n900.

If Nokia cannot make maemo 6 backward-compatible and force n900 users to buy a new phone (the n900 here is £500ish) to benefit from the new apps then Nokia will be forced-out of the smartphone market entirely. Apple and Google will eat Nokia's dwindling marketshare instead.

I only bought my n900 in December last year. If Nokia want me to buy a new phone to get the latest version of maemo then I will simply go elsewhere.
If Nokia expect people to buy a £500 phone and 9-12 months later buy another phone at £500 then the management at Nokia are more ******ed than I thought.

If Nokia want to grow marketshare and remain as a big player in the mobile phone industry:
1) Ensure the previous phone can run the new updated os
2) Keep user and developers happy - user's library of applications will grow and allow user's to take the applications to the new phone too
3) This will attract more developers and more users to Nokia maemo-based devices
4) Third-party app developers may gain the confidence to charge users for apps if they wanted to. Nokia get revenue stream.

[johnel]

No quick releases of anything!

Take the time to do it right first time round.

I would have waited longer for the n900 if it meant it would be a more stable device and "3" sim card support would have been included.

It would have also meant less intrusive maemo firmware update and more enhancement
Currently when you apply the maemo firmware update you cannot roll it back if you weren't happy with it. Apparently the "3" sim card support changes the firmware in the phone/modem hardware (you cannot change this back). If you restore the original maemo firmware you lose the ability to make phone calls as a result of this.

Relase when it is ready. Not by pressure from impatient users.

[jorjino]

At risk of feeding some trolls here...


What Nokia do not seem to understand is the success of a platform/os is largely determined by what applications are available for it.

I'm not suggesting or in-fact agreeing with the original poster who started this thread.

Considering how many apps were available at launch was pretty impressive. When Goggle launched the Android platform a couple of years ago only a handful of apps were available at the time.


What I've just said seems to contradict my first paragraph but I Nokia need to take a long-term view of this.

If the next version of maemo is not compatible with the n900 then users and app developers are going to be p***** off with Nokia.

Why?
It means tweaking your developed app to run properly on the next version of maemo when you could be spending that time improving your app.

If maemo 6 will not run on the n900 and you are a current owner you will have to buy a new device and start your nice app collection from scratch.

If Nokia had any sense of the current smartphone market (and it's long-term future) Nokia would ensure that the maemo 6 platform will also run on the n900.

If Nokia cannot make maemo 6 backward-compatible and force n900 users to buy a new phone (the n900 here is £500ish) to benefit from the new apps then Nokia will be forced-out of the smartphone market entirely. Apple and Google will eat Nokia's dwindling marketshare instead.

I only bought my n900 in December last year. If Nokia want me to buy a new phone to get the latest version of maemo then I will simply go elsewhere.
If Nokia expect people to buy a £500 phone and 9-12 months later buy another phone at £500 then the management at Nokia are more ******ed than I thought.

If Nokia want to grow marketshare and remain as a big player in the mobile phone industry:
1) Ensure the previous phone can run the new updated os
2) Keep user and developers happy - user's library of applications will grow and allow user's to take the applications to the new phone too
3) This will attract more developers and more users to Nokia maemo-based devices
4) Third-party app developers may gain the confidence to charge users for apps if they wanted to. Nokia get revenue stream.

Couldn`t be more agree with you!
Regards.

[edgedemon]

Well, let's see:

MMS - coming through the community (fMMS)
Personalised ringtones - coming via the community (tweakr)
Custom profiles - coming via the community (shepherd)
More games - coming via the community (sheep!!)

Rereading the first post it seems to me the problem the OP is having is with the rather empty shelves of the Ovi store, and not anything to do with n900 at all - "Loaded with apps"? But n900 was never advertised as having 'loads of apps' because it's a new platform. Of course, Maemo 6 will be back to square one mostly, for apps, except for those Maemo 5 app written in Qt and portable.

Interesting points, but they illustrate how personal the perception is when it comes to how complete a phone is. Custom profiles and ringtones are all Im missing at the moment. Like everyone else, I rushed to the Ovi store and downloaded lots as well as maemo downloads, but most of it I haven't kept as the browser is enough for me - that in my opinion is the one killer app for the n900 because it is just so good. My guess is that the n900 will never have 1000's of apps as they just aren't needed, yes there will be some great ones, but with conversations and the browser, there doesn't need to be that many as the phone already has alot of functionality buit in.
Now Im kicking myself for staying with Windows Mobile for so long - the n900 is a breath of fresh air..

[ndi]

Custom profiles and ringtones are all Im missing at the moment.

There's an app that lets you create more profiles. (Edit: my bad, it's still in development repositories. But hey, if you miss them THAT much.... Also, big red warning here if you decide to go commando and install.)

As for ringtones, I don't miss them AT ALL. What I really want is the voice kit that announced the caller. You know, RING! It's that guy again! Ring!

IMO, that's way better, no custom ringtones, one ringtone so you know when it's your phone, no memorizing several files, you know. Works on new contacts, too.

However, to each his/her own.

[soeiro]

IRC, access to the SIM card operator menu is missing, too. Does anyone know how to do it?

[cBeam]

No quick releases of anything!

Take the time to do it right first time round.

.....

Relase when it is ready. Not by pressure from impatient users.

What you describe is one way to do it. However, I think market expectations are changing to faster and more frequent upgrades.

One used to follow a waterfall development model, specifying requirements, developing the sw, testing, fixing bugs, more testing, more bug fixing etc. Once you're ready, a lot of time has gone by, and the delivered functionality based on original specs will be outdated and surpassed by faster moving competitors.

So the dev approach for cutting edge devices was changed a while a go to a more agile process, giving us faster updates, more trial and error, more beta devices, at the cost of more bugs in the experienced by the end user.

For a device like the N900 based on Linux, supported by a community, I definitely prefer a fast update cycle with the risk of experiencing more bugs. To a big degree I bought the N900 for its potential and not for the at the time available function set. I was okay once I saw that my basic requirements were fulfilled.

But I do want new features, functions, apps, features steadily streaming to my device.

Now, this might a nightmare for some (think corporate users on closely managed networks), but software heaven for me.

[Jaffa]

What Nokia do not seem to understand is the success of a platform/os is largely determined by what applications are available for it.

I see no evidence of that at all. Now, you may question how quickly they're bringing out tools integration between Qt Creator and MADDE; but everything I've seen of and heard from Nokia says they know the reinforcement cycle of users->developers->applications->users->...

They've even changed the strategy - with Qt 4.6 now being an officially supported beta for Maemo 5; rather than Qt being official only in Harmattan.

[nightfire]

I've been a Debian user for about 10 years, a Linux user for 15, and a computer user for 20 (I'm 30, myself). I've seen a lot of devices and OSes come and go (Sharp Zaurus C7x0, Palm 5, Kyocera's first palm smartphone, IBM PS/2 with microchannel, DOS/Novell, OS/2, Win95, NT4, QNX) ....

One thing that strikes me about the n900/Maemo is that its team seems to be composed of people who really, really get it. They get versioning. They get package and update distribution. They get openness. They get community. And they seem to really get the engineering/marketing compromise.

Honestly, I've only had my n900 for about a week now, but virtually everything I've played with is done they way I - as a Unix user with 15 years experience - think it should be done. None of this "oh crap... this is gonna come back to haunt us in a year" or inexplicable configuration choices. No silly/lazy hacks. No quirks. A few bugs, sure. But it's only been out for a couple months.

The major decisions seem to have been made by people who have "been there, done that." Library choices, base packages, the sound engine, the extras repository, the SDK..

It's downright exciting thinking about the possibilities here.

If Nokia's marketing guys play it right, Maemo could be the single unified handheld device operating system. There is almost no long-term reason to choose another OS. There are simply no long-term advantages to anything else except current app support.

Maemo is well established (Debian, X11, plus Nokia did their job right), it's open and free to implement (less of course Nokia's quite excellent proprietary extensions, giving them a head start and competitive advantage), rock solid (crashes should be obsolete; generally speaking, Linux doesn't crash). Secure, extensible, and open.

Think about it: we've seen the coming and going of DOS, OS/2, Windows 9x, QNX, PalmOS (ie. Garnet), non-BSD MacOS, and a whole host of other OSes.

The Linux stack (kernel + GNU userspace + X11) has outlived all of them. And that's what Maemo is based on.

It's a good time to be an engineer. :)

So anyway, to the original poster... relax a little. If this device isn't polished enough for you, and lacks the apps you need, sell your device and get something else. There are lots of great devices out there.

Right now Maemo represents an incredible potential, and for many - like me - literally a dream come true. A proper functioning pocket unix system.

[direx]

If Nokia want to grow marketshare and remain as a big player in the mobile phone industry:
1) Ensure the previous phone can run the new updated os
2) Keep user and developers happy - user's library of applications will grow and allow user's to take the applications to the new phone too
3) This will attract more developers and more users to Nokia maemo-based devices
4) Third-party app developers may gain the confidence to charge users for apps if they wanted to. Nokia get revenue stream.

I completely agree with you in this nice summary. Especially the the first point is a very important issue. Other manufacturers also offer new OS versions to their customers - and heck I would even pay 5$ for a maemo 6 upgrade (yeah I know: it's OpenSource - but porting to the N900 might cost money).

I really hope that Nokia recognizes that the Smartphone-market is changing. I am not gonna buy a new device just to get a new OS version.
I believe that sales numbers for the N9xx (whatever it might be called) would probably not decrease if Nokia would offer an update to Maemo 6 to N900 users. I think showing their customers that devices get long-term support and updates makes those devices even more attractive.

If people want new hardware features (multitouch, better camera, ...) they should buy a new device. But if people only want a new OS they should be able to stick with their current device (as long as it is not older than 2 or 3 years).

[johnel]

that's really not cool at all... considering the promotion and the way the phone was promoted, it's really disappointing, to have such a powerful phone with so little to do with it... and most of all missing alot of key features that a 20$ phone can give u...

I use mine for:
remote pc (vncviewer)
listen to music (in car with fm transmitter)
surf the internet
Use IRC chat (irssi)
Programming (python)
Weather (omweather)
exercise (pedometer)
text editing (leafpad)
mucking about with Linux (easydeb)
watch movies & tv shows (mplayer)
ebooks (PDF viewer)
read comics (cbrPager)
play gba & gbc games
play Ur-Quan Masters (star control 2)
Use wii controller for games
a torch! (moodlight)
taking photos
text messaging
and last but not least - even as a phone!

OK - I admit the phone "app" lacks a few features but speaking to people while mobile - it works very well.

No amount of updating is going to help you.

[Kajko]

Six months after the N900 comes out I have to buy a brand new device to have the latest os?

I'm sorry Nokia but this will NOT happen. Are you people ******ed?

Bye bye Nokia.

[felbutss]

nokia could release it for the n900 and ill pay for it. not a problem.

the N910 will be very appealing as it would support multitouch and other features. what are they worried about?????? no1 in Australia even has the n900 except very a very small group of people. not sold here. i doubt it would impact their sales if they release MeeGo for the n900 as the n910 is a more appealing device anyway and a lot of people will probably sell their n900 for the n910 which would be a better phone. who knows i might get the n910 if its any good with a multitouch resistive screen, oo nice.

this is all about looking after us. apple still support the first gen iphone with the latest OS. Microsoft sell OS upgrades but nokia is still lagging behind. this would probably create more business for nokia if they upgraded their OS for older phones for free or for a fee.

think about it. if they don't release it for the n900 even though most apps will run on QT it will just put people off the way we get shelved by nokia. If nokia do deiced to change the way they do things it would be good business move overall, it would create immense loyalty and support towards nokia.

http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=44926

look at the poll on my thread. 25% of people said "If there is No support for MeeGo on the N900 ill never want to own a nokia again"

this is not because we cant run the same apps as the N910 running MeeGo will have but its the fact that nokia continually shelves their phones and drops support. the only reason why i stay with nokia is because they are innovative and create high quality high end phones (not since the N95). one day another vendor will take over and nokia will suffer. trust me the day will come, the market is changing so fast. look at what the iphone did out of nowhere. nokia keep changing and changing and never perfect an OS, Device or market them properly. look at the iphones apps store, you have to admit its impressive with the amount of variety. this is all because they played it smart and unified everything.

im not saying the iphone is better. but the general public, like joe down the road get put off by nokia. there is not much support. nokia need to unify everything to get customer confidence to buy the device. its all marketing. we know the nokia n900 is an amazing machine but the average joe doesn't, they still see the iphone as a better device. imagine me trying to explain to a 14 year old girl who owns a iphone what QT is?



even if the n900 runs the latest MeeGo OS from now and to the future i will still want to upgrade my device. maybe i want a thinner phone? or multitouch? see what i mean. everyone is supported and everyone is happy no complaining. Love for nokia will grow and hate for apple will grow from their shitty closed OS lol. Nokia could do some damage, they have a full open universe what are they doing, the average joe doesn't even know or understand how huge this is. maemo is even more open then andriod. nokia show the word the potential of what can be done!!!!!!!!!


the funny thing is, my dumb iphone user friends tried to convince me the iphone is better. they done understand what multitasking, opensource arrararararraraa is. see these are the kinds of people who buy phones. not many knowledgeable people out there, but those simple people make companys like Apple super powers and in turn creates a whole new universe IE: heaps of bluddy apps on cydia and the app store

[lma]

if Maemo 6 wont run on N900 then what are we waiting for?

Exactly! Enjoy the device and OS you have in your hands right now, file bugs for the parts you find disappointing (after checking for duplicates) and stop worrying about future versions.