Quick GPS Location based on Cell Tower

[jsuggs]

One of my favorite (missing) features of Google Maps on my N95 was the ability for it to pick up my (approximate) location based on which cell tower I was connected to. I'm talking you fired up Google Maps, pressed 0 and within <5 seconds it took you to your location (which is faster than it even takes Ovi Maps to load!).

It was INCREDIBLY useful for being able to do quick location based services. Quite possibly the #1 feature I am missing on the N900.

So my questions are, was that something that Google built into Google Maps, something like a database of cell towers, their GPS coords and coverage radius? What level of effort would be required to have that same quick/approximate location information be made from within the N900?

My next question is how should this be worded into a Brainstorm? I want to give as much accurate technical details as possible so its not vague what is being requested. Also, this doesn't necessarily have to be just for Ovi Maps, I would think other programs could find this capability useful.

What I am wanting is a near instant approximation based on cell tower while the GPS is still attempting to get a more accurate location in the background.

[spag]

It was INCREDIBLY useful for being able to do quick location based services. Quite possibly the #1 feature I am missing on the N900.


Possible location methods are described here. I think "LOCATION_METHOD_CWP" is something that sounds like the method you described.

http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Using_Connectivity_Components/Using_Location_API#Location_methods

[dalonso]

That's already in you N900. It's called AGPS (Assisted GPS) and activating it is the only way for getting a GPS fix in a short time.

You must set it active in Settings --> Location

[dalonso]

By the way, if yo install latitude from the extras repository you can make googlemaps show your position, getting it updated by means of cell position, network ip or GPS.

[mele]

Google maps in n900 microb browser gets your location with gps or without gps by using mobilephone network towers

[colnago]

...So my questions are, was that something that Google built into Google Maps, something like a database of cell towers, their GPS coords and coverage radius? What level of effort would be required to have that same quick/approximate location information be made from within the N900?...

Its already out...no need to request it.

The newest "geolocation" plugin/app, available in the "Downloads" section (newest app), works for my "Google maps bookmark". It acquires my location in 2-3 seconds, if that long.

http://maps.google.com/maps/m?

http://home.comcast.net/~masterpiu/screenshot17.png
http://home.comcast.net/~masterpiu/screenshot19.png
http://home.comcast.net/~masterpiu/screenshot20.png



Also, the Near Me plugin, for the Firefox browser, looks and works very similarly, to the Google Search "app". It finds my location in "less than 1 second", without the need of the other geolocation plugin.

[Siggen]

By the way, if yo install latitude from the extras repository you can make googlemaps show your position, getting it updated by means of cell position, network ip or GPS.

hope this does not screw up the position (or make it take longer) in countries with strict privacy policy like Norway. If you had my IP and used whois on it you could not tell more than that i might be from Norway :) You could reasearch about my ISP but to no help about my position xD

[Rob1n]

It's called maemo-geolocation and I think it's in extras-devel

[colnago]

It's called maemo-geolocation and I think it's in extras-devel

I was able to DL/install...I do not have testing, nor dev repositories active on my phone. The Dev repo is not even configured.


Its under the "Fresh" column:


http://maemo.org/downloads/Maemo5/

[jsuggs]

http://maps.google.com/maps/m?

Thanks, this is awesome and exactly what I was looking for!

This is what the basics of Ovi Maps should look/act like.

[colnago]

Yeah, I was looking for something to replace my "Windows Live Search" on my WinMo phone. Something that will return a more consolidated list in an "app", vs. "web results". So if I was looking for say "bicycle shops", the app would return a list, with shop names, addr., phone #s, and link for "directions".

If you add that link in your microb's "bookmarks", make sure you have the ? in there at the end. I believe that will prompt for the site's access to your GPS.

[dalonso]

I was able to DL/install...I do not have testing, nor dev repositories active on my phone. The Dev repo is not even configured.


Its under the "Fresh" column:


http://maemo.org/downloads/Maemo5/

It's really the same thing, if you look at the contents of this install file in maemo.org:

[install]
catalogues = extras
package = maemo-geolocation

[extras]
name = Maemo Extras
uri = http://repository.maemo.org/extras/
dist = fremantle
components = free non-free

What it really does, when you click the link, is adding the extras repository to the app-manager and select the installation from there.

[colnago]

It's really the same thing, if you look at the contents of this install file in maemo.org:

[install]
catalogues = extras
package = maemo-geolocation

[extras]
name = Maemo Extras
uri = http://repository.maemo.org/extras/
dist = fremantle
components = free non-free

What it really does, when you click the link, is adding the extras repository to the app-manager and select the installation from there.

Yes, but there isn't there a difference between:

- Extras
- Extras-Testing
- Extras-Devel

???

I was making the distinction based on Rob1n's post.

[mikkov]

Yes, but there isn't there a difference between:

- Extras
- Extras-Testing
- Extras-Devel

???

I was making the distinction based on Rob1n's post.

Extras-Testing are Extras-Devel for applications under testing and development. They really are not meant for end users. Maemo-geolocation has passed testing and is now in proper Extras repository and can be installed from maemo.org/downloads or directly from application manager as already pointed out.

[colnago]

Extras-Testing are Extras-Devel for applications under testing and development. They really are not meant for end users. Maemo-geolocation has passed testing and is now in proper Extras repository and can be installed from maemo.org/downloads or directly from application manager as already pointed out.

Yes, this is what I have already posted.

[mikkov]

What I am wanting is a near instant approximation based on cell tower while the GPS is still attempting to get a more accurate location in the background.

All this is part of the Maemo5 platform. I think that all gps aware applications already use this possibility. Try for example Maep application, it shows graphically the max error in location. At roughest level it just shows in which country you are and from there it goes to gps based location in couple of seconds.

[skatebkp]

does geolocation work even when offline?

[HugoSon]

...and use supl.google.com instead of supl.nokia.com as AGPS server; at least for me here in Germany the coldfix runs much. much faster then.

[skatebkp]

so i use AGPS with google without an internet connection and the maemo browser with geo location

[Laughing Man]

does geolocation work even when offline?

Yes, AGPS (assisted GPS) needs an internet connection but GPS does not. Basically AGPS assists GPS with acquiring a lock on, without AGPS it just takes longer to get a lock on. So you can still get a lock-on without AGPS.

so i use AGPS with google without an internet connection and the maemo browser with geo location

Well the problem with using Google Maps is that you will need an internet connection..

[skatebkp]

Damn I can't find a damn way to get the GPS to lock on without an internet connection, love this bloody phone but i'm just missing this feature!

[colnago]

Damn I can't find a damn way to get the GPS to lock on without an internet connection, love this bloody phone but i'm just missing this feature!

Even when you are "outside"? I'm inside, albeit in a "wood-framed" building, and I get GPS lock in a few seconds, irregardless of app. In concrete/stone building, it takes much longer "if at all". Overall, I get GPS lock faster on the 900, than both my Garmin, and Pioneer AVIC head unit.

[skatebkp]

I've tried repetitively outside, I've waited for 15,20 30! minutes and nothing, the only time it usually works is when I get a gps lock at home using my internet connection then when I go to work I can still get a lock if I switch Ovi maps on.

This must be an hardware fault with my phone then???

[colnago]

If under your "Location" settings, you have GPS both "enabled" and utilizing the "Internal GPS", and you can not get a lock, I'd send it back for a replacement or refund.

[skatebkp]

I will do thanks

[Rob1n]

There's problems with the GPS in Ovi maps, so I wouldn't write it off as a hardware failure yet (https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5337).

[texaslabrat]

download the "maep" application (similar to the maemo-maps app from previous Maemo platforms) and try it there to rule out an issue with Ovi maps.

[chrisp7]

Its already out...no need to request it.

The newest "geolocation" plugin/app, available in the "Downloads" section (newest app), works for my "Google maps bookmark". It acquires my location in 2-3 seconds, if that long.

http://maps.google.com/maps/m?

http://home.comcast.net/~masterpiu/screenshot17.png
http://home.comcast.net/~masterpiu/screenshot19.png
http://home.comcast.net/~masterpiu/screenshot20.png


Also, the Near Me plugin, for the Firefox browser, looks and works very similarly, to the Google Search "app". It finds my location in "less than 1 second", without the need of the other geolocation plugin.

How do you zoom the map in? You can zoom in on the webpage but not sure on the map itself?

[chrget]

My best recommendation for people with offline GPS woes would be GPSJinni. It will give you some insight into if anything (and what) is actually happening with GPS.

Install it, start it, hit the Satellites button and wait. After some time (depending on the satellite constellation, location and orientation of the device), white bars should appear indicating the PRN and relative signal strength of the satellites that are currently being received. They will change over time and possibly even perform a little 'dance', i.e. disappearing and reappearing, especially in case of reflected signals being received.

Generally ... the more bars, the better! And note that for a fix to be made, you will need at least 4 of those bars with a reasonable (i.e. 60% or better) strength. And, on a device that has no current almanach and ephemeris data, time. Ephemeris data takes at least 2 minutes, full almanach information 15 minutes to trickle down over the 50 baud satellite data stream (incidentally this is exactly where A-GPS comes in: it allows that this paramount data reaches the device in the blink of an eye via network, thus speeding up the process tremendously).

An unobstructed view of the horizon will tend to help greatly (unless you're close to the equator), as GPS satellites often tend to be visible at a fairly low elevation. Note that in the northern hemisphere, this view should be facing south, whereas in the southern hemisphere, it would be north. (Don't shoot me if some detail is off here, all of this is from memory; I was doing some research on improving lousy GPS reception some years back.)

In any case, back to GPSJinni -- at some point, provided enough white bars have been visible for long enough, some will eventually turn green: congratulations, you now have a fix! Any application using the location service now should be able to tell you where you are, be it Maemo Mapper, OVI Maps or whatever. :eek:

Incidentally, from my personal observation here and during my aforementioned research, GPS is one of the most less understood and most highly overrated technologies when it comes to the general public. People seem to expect miracles from (especially consumer) GPS devices, when in fact, they are inherently "unreliable" beasts due to the nature of the entire system and the rather flaky antennas that tend to be used in GPS add-ons to general-purpose devices like phones.

No idea, but it's probably those overblown scenarious depicted in Hollywood productions where a modern-day MacGyver uses GPS to track someone on the lowest level of an abandoned coal mine that causes people to have these unrealistic expectations. ;)

Simply put (or as Scotty would say): A canna' change the laws of physics! :D

So how good is the N900 GPS? Well, worse than my M-241 data logger, just somewhat worse than my Nokia 6210 Navigator. But a loooooong way better than a Siemens SXG-75 or Motorola E-1000 phone of days past. It is able to get a fix just from signals reflected by neighbouring buildings at a window facing north (I'm in the northern hemisphere, so, as mentioned above, worst case) in an amiable time (around 2-3 minutes, provided it's not a really bad constellation and its almanach data is not outdated).

Whoops, this had become rather long-ish bordering on rant :o

Hope it helps someone anyway.

Regards,

Chris.

[colnago]

How do you zoom the map in? You can zoom in on the webpage but not sure on the map itself?

Enable your cursor, and "double tap" to "zoom-in". Not sure about "zoom-out".

*** edit - Maybe one of the number or letter keys. I'll have to check the default's on my g/f's e71.

Regarding your "long and boring" post, :p, I'd only use the 900 and its GPS/google maps, to find POIs, or if I'm out of town and "on foot". For actual driving directions, I'd rather use my car's AVIC or Garmin...but I understand not everyone has these options. However by default, I would never rely on an "all-in-one device" to provide stellar results, in all situations, despite its "handiness".

[ajamils]

anybody figured out how to zoom in and out on the map ?

[chrisp7]

anybody figured out how to zoom in and out on the map ?

A mentioned just before, use the virtual mouse on the browser to double tap to zoom in - as for zoom out, its not possible. :P

[ajamils]

A mentioned just before, use the virtual mouse on the browser to double tap to zoom in - as for zoom out, its not possible. :P

how do I get the virtual mouse ?

[osomanos]

It's called hover mode. Look here for a list of gestures and how to do them

http://maemo.nokia.com/features/maemo-browser/gestures/