Firmware updates without changelogs

[jacktanner]

I'm kind of unhappy over the release of firmware updates without official changelogs. Case in point: PR 1.1.1. I'm aware of the changelog on the wiki (http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_5/PR1.1.1), but community created ones are beside the point. I want to have a detailed, human-readable list of what's in an update before I install it.

Let's talk about it, and if enough people feel the same, we can start a brainstorm.

Update: brainstorm now filed:

http://maemo.org/community/brainstorm/view/firmward_updates_should_have_changelogs/

[pelago]

I agree. I think you should just go ahead and create a brainstorm then we can vote on it.

[sajin900007]

I agree as well....it would be so much nicer and simpler for newbies like me in knowing what the main changes are......in simple terms....I hope I don't get jumped on by other members.....just voicing my opinion.....

[marktold]

Put it up on sandbox - and I will vote.

Markus

[jacktanner]

OK, I've created a brainstorm:

http://maemo.org/community/brainstorm/view/firmward_updates_should_have_changelogs/

[nightfire]

Agree 100%. Changelogs are crucial for diagnosing update issues, helping users decide, and just plain getting people excited.

[GeneralAntilles]

You realize this isn't community-created, right? Nokia contracts Andre to create the list and it gets posted on the wiki because that's a place where it can be improved by the community if need be.

[jdr93]

there was list of what was in the upgrade in the 'updating' information window section of the details. more a series of 'titles' than descriptions, but the list seemed extensive enough.

[marktold]

@jacktanner

as promissed I voted. Maybe you find time to vote for my brainstors. especially scrollbar.

see below

regards markus

[jacktanner]

You realize this isn't community-created, right? Nokia contracts Andre to create the list and it gets posted on the wiki because that's a place where it can be improved by the community if need be.

No, I didn't realize that! Thanks for pointing that out. But I'm still not happy.

The problem with that is that a) it's not transparent, and b) it doesn't come from Nokia directly. But if something is wrong with the changelog that Andre posts, I can't know if that's his fault or Nokia's fault (or some wiki editor's fault). I'm all for community-improved changelogs after they're released, but that's a separate issue.

[ysss]

If you want the users to take more responsibility of their actions, then they should be informed of what the updates contain and any warnings/cautions about it before he initiates the upgrade process.

Even Windows and OSX do this on their system updates...

[pelago]

You realize this isn't community-created, right? Nokia contracts Andre to create the list and it gets posted on the wiki because that's a place where it can be improved by the community if need be.

I would have expected to see at least a blog post or a news item from Nokia mentioning the upgrade and a changelog. The changelog can be copied to the wiki and improved by the community later, but I still think there should initially be an official announcement/changelog. Witness the confusion when the upgrade came out of the blue, and there was no web page to consult to even see if it was genuine.

[ossipena]

I'm kind of unhappy over the release of firmware updates without official changelogs. Case in point: PR 1.1.1. I'm aware of the changelog on the wiki (http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_5/PR1.1.1), but community created ones are beside the point. I want to have a detailed, human-readable list of what's in an update before I install it.

Let's talk about it, and if enough people feel the same, we can start a brainstorm.

you missed it just a little bit:

http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_5/PR1.1

simple change to url gives you something you are after, doesn't it?

e: it is fine to me that only the bigger updates are given proper changelog. it's better than nothing (the way it was before) and I am hoping PR1.2 will get similar one after it has been released.

[Andre Klapper]

But if something is wrong with the changelog that Andre posts, I can't know if that's his fault or Nokia's fault (or some wiki editor's fault).

It's a mixture. :-P Sometimes bug reports internally get closed with a "It's already FIXED as I remember something, but I don't remember which exact internal release and don't have time to search for it in ChangeLogs or if a ticket for this existed to correctly mark it as a duplicate".
Hence sometimes things are a bit unclear, also because of Nokia's unclear branching policy - 3.* was PR1.1.1 as we all know now, but it took me a while to find out whether 3.* just included some "cherry-picked" patches, or if it was branched at some point from the internal "master" releases that will lead to a PR1.2 release etc.

Hope this helps a bit...

[el3ctronick]

they probably dont know the changes they made. same thing happened with maemo5. they didnt know it doesnt suit them. it just took them 2 months to realize.

[Andre Klapper]

they probably dont know the changes they made.

They should know, as they knew for 2.2009.51-1. See http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_5/PR1.1
Nokia is not a bunch of totally unorganized hippies (though it sometimes may look like that). :-P

same thing happened with maemo5.

Please provide proof for your statement, or elaborate at least.

[el3ctronick]

They should know, as they knew for 2.2009.51-1. See http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_5/PR1.1
Nokia is not a bunch of totally unorganized hippies (though it sometimes may look like that). :-P



Please provide proof for your statement, or elaborate at least.

maemo5 announced that it is discontinued after 2 and a half months of life. during these 2 months they were saying that maemo will be their primary OS for all nokia devices. i think thats enough.

[GeneralAntilles]

maemo5 announced that it is discontinued after 2 and a half months of life. during these 2 months they were saying that maemo will be their primary OS for all nokia devices. i think thats enough.

Yeah, you should probably do some more reading or something.

[zerojay]

maemo5 announced that it is discontinued after 2 and a half months of life. during these 2 months they were saying that maemo will be their primary OS for all nokia devices. i think thats enough.

What the hell are you talking about?

[Andre Klapper]

maemo5 announced that it is discontinued after 2 and a half months of life. during these 2 months they were saying that maemo will be their primary OS for all nokia devices. i think thats enough.

These statements are worthless without exact quotes, with exact URLs. I can also state anything without proving.
Also see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear,_uncertainty_and_doubt .

[HugoSon]

maemo5 announced that it is discontinued after 2 and a half months of life. during these 2 months they were saying that maemo will be their primary OS for all nokia devices. i think thats enough.

Hm - what are you talking about? Nobody - especially not Nokia - ever mentioned Maemo gonna be their primary OS. The exact opposite is the case - they always stated out that Symbian and Maemo will co-exist.
And with Nokia's move to QT - Symbian^3 and MeeGo really make sense - both of them. And I'm sure we will see great apps and updates - "even" for our Maemo5 small child - the "N900" :)
Maybe you should read your sources all over again - you may be missed some important sentences.

[jacktanner]

It's a mixture. :-P Sometimes bug reports internally get closed with a "It's already FIXED as I remember something, but I don't remember which exact internal release and don't have time to search for it in ChangeLogs or if a ticket for this existed to correctly mark it as a duplicate".
Hence sometimes things are a bit unclear, also because of Nokia's unclear branching policy - 3.* was PR1.1.1 as we all know now, but it took me a while to find out whether 3.* just included some "cherry-picked" patches, or if it was branched at some point from the internal "master" releases that will lead to a PR1.2 release etc.

Hope this helps a bit...

Andre, I thank you for putting together the notes that you do, especially given the quality of the material you get as input. But this is just not rigorous or sustainable ... It seems that Nokia's internal practices are not up to par with what end users and open developers expect. How can we put pressure on Nokia to publish official changelogs?

[Andre Klapper]

Andre, I thank you for putting together the notes that you do, especially given the quality of the material you get as input. But this is just not rigorous or sustainable ... It seems that Nokia's internal practices are not up to par with what end users and open developers expect. How can we put pressure on Nokia to publish official changelogs?

I think when it comes to some fixes on closed source modules it's understandable if Nokia does not publish a ChangeLog that would leak some information about the code and its quality, just by the number of fixed bugs and the subject lines.
However, for those parts that are open source I'd expect it too.
No idea how to push them though, I think Nokia is totally aware about these community expectations and for PR1.1.1 just didn't do it because it was a very small update (still, that's not really a valid argument). Don't remember my chat on Wednesday with some Nokians completely though, hope my brain doesn't trick me here...

Hmm. File a ticket in Brainstorm and get some voters together?

[jacktanner]

Yah, brainstorm is here. Please amend it / propose different solutions as necessary, since you obviously know what Nokia gives you better than I do. :)

http://maemo.org/community/brainstorm/view/firmward_updates_should_have_changelogs/

[Helmuth]

Please add the Link to Brainstorm also to the first Post and a Link to this Talk Thread at your Brainstorm. Thanks! :)