N800 Pressure Dead Zone

[ColonelMustard]

There seems to be an area of my N800's screen that is losing pressure sensitivity. This area is just to the lower right of the screen's center. It isn't completely dead yet, just takes a great deal more pressure to register clicks. Its mainly an issue when using the stylus, somehow finger input is much less affected.
I have had my N800 since CompUSA started selling them back at the beginning of January, so a little over a month, and this problem just appeared. The back of my unit says its made in Korea.
Is this the kind of situation that Nokia would under warranty be obliged to fix?

I attached a screenshot of a test i did in Maemopad+. I spent a good 10 minutes tapping randomly with the stylus. You can see the area that has lost sensitivity. Maemopad+ has the ability to detect how hard the user presses on the screen and adjusts the width of the drawn lines accordingly. You can see there is a gradual dropoff in sensitivity around the deadzone where the dots get smaller because the digitizer is crapping out.

Has anyone else experienced this?

[Karel Jansens]

And there's me, not even knowing Maemopad+ had pressure-sensitive input!

W00t! It's gone right back on NaB00!!!

[ColonelMustard]

haha yea i was really surprised by that too.
It makes writing notes on the screen alot easier.

[pmb]

Isn't the warranty good for a year ? Sounds like you should be able to get it dealt with, though I have never had to deal with nokia tech support...
Good luck with it.

[rcull]

What version of Maemopad+ do you have. I cant find any setting to allow this. Mine is 0.23a

Rick

[ColonelMustard]

my version of Maemopad+ is 0.25b.
The pressure sensitivity is very subtle. There is no setting i see to enable or disable it in my version.

Maybe you have it and just didn't notice?

[Karel Jansens]

my version of Maemopad+ is 0.25b.
The pressure sensitivity is very subtle. There is no setting i see to enable or disable it in my version.

Maybe you have it and just didn't notice?

I like the fact that it's indeed subtle: You need skill and training to make it work. So many things these days are just too bl**dy easy.

[disq]

It could be improved if you have suggestions :) Pressure-sensitive input is introduced in 0.25 (only on the n800), and currently there's no way to disable it (though i'm not sure the option is required)

I can also detect "finger presses" on the canvas btw but nothing to do with them, especially considering sometimes putting your finger on accidentally draws a dot/line on the canvas if you're not too careful. (it's disabled on the release so if you try with the current version it will just keep drawing dots/lines)

[Karel Jansens]

It could be improved if you have suggestions :) Pressure-sensitive input is introduced in 0.25 (only on the n800), and currently there's no way to disable it (though i'm not sure the option is required)

I can also detect "finger presses" on the canvas btw but nothing to do with them, especially considering sometimes putting your finger on accidentally draws a dot/line on the canvas if you're not too careful. (it's disabled on the release so if you try with the current version it will just keep drawing dots/lines)

How many pressure levels does the N800 recognize?

[disq]

floating point numbers from 0.1 to 0.39999999 (0.4 and up being a "finger press") but it's not very accurate ie. not much difference between 0.15 and 0.17 for example.

[ColonelMustard]

I think this pressure sensitive input is great.
I had no idea the passive digitizer in these devices could detect anything more than boolean values.

Obviously the n800 is no Wacom tablet but it would be sweet to be able to adjust how much the pressure applied changes the line's width. Like there could be a menu option where the user can adjust the pen tool's maximum and minimum widths as modified by the stylus pressure. Also maybe alpha transparency of the drawn line could be modified by pressure as well. :D

[jpj]

floating point numbers from 0.1 to 0.39999999 (0.4 and up being a "finger press") but it's not very accurate ie. not much difference between 0.15 and 0.17 for example.

Any floating point conversion has to be downstream of the actual packet decoding. There must be a certain fixed number of bits allocated to raw pressure data, which is where the answer to Karel's question resides.

[disq]

it would be also great if it could detect alternate touches, ie. with the stylus's back (to erase, for instance)

to calculate the actual brush size from the pressure, i use this:
first, pressure is "clamped" between 0.1 and 0.35 (getting a value >0.35 requires too much and immediate force)
then it's just:
ceil(brush_size*pressure_value/0.35)
so, the brush size you select from the menu is the maximum brush size you will get if you apply a pressure of 0.35 and up. (also, ceil rounds the number up)

so, pressure sensitivity actually "increases" with the increased brush sizes. getting alpha channel might not work but I could also try to differentiate the color tone so it still makes sense with narrow brushes.

[Karel Jansens]

floating point numbers from 0.1 to 0.39999999 (0.4 and up being a "finger press") but it's not very accurate ie. not much difference between 0.15 and 0.17 for example.

There are possibilities here. I'm not dreaming that an app like ArtRage could run on the N800, but maybe someone will use the pressure sensitivity as the basis of a more artsy drawing app (no offense meant towards Maemopad+, obviously :o ).

[disq]

Any floating point conversion has to be downstream of the actual packet decoding. There must be a certain fixed number of bits allocated to raw pressure data, which is where the answer to Karel's question resides.

yeah, if somebody got the lcd specsheet or examined the touchscreen driver we could get some info on that. i doubt asking nokia for specs would work.

[9a6or]

Unfortunately I can confirm, I have a similar reduction in the screen's sensitivity. In my case this is on the right edge, along the vertical scrollbar and getting a bit wider at the bottom. I first noticed it when the delete button on the virtual keyboard was not responding as well as the others. The MaemoPad+ test (courtesy of ColonelMustard ;)) shows it nicely. I think my problem is not very serious though, with just a bit more pressure it works fine. Interestingly drawing a line across the ominous area works fine, it is the stylus tapping that's affected.

[zuti]

Did some maemopad+ tapping myself. Quite a clear pattern. Not such a big problem, except for the extreme right edge... you really have to use force to get the scrollbars moving.

[Tabster]

had mine only a few days but I have not noticed this issue yet.

One thing I noticed about the screen is that the right edge gets much warmer than the rest of the screen. It also looks kind of yellowish when the screen should be all white during booting :(

Anyone else see this?

[richie]

There seems to be an area of my N800's screen that is losing pressure sensitivity.

Does recalibration of the screen help? Or is it just simply hardware failing?

Rich

[9a6or]

As far as I know the touchscreen calibration aligns the pressure sensitive matrix to the visual screen matrix, as the two are not necessarily overlaping.

[Milhouse]

Does recalibration of the screen help? Or is it just simply hardware failing?

Rich

Do we even know that it is failing hardware? It could be buggy touchscreen software not calculating correct values, which may be fixed in a firmware update. Has anyone opened a bug in bugzilla (https://maemo.org/bugzilla/)?

[zuti]

Do we even know that it is failing hardware? It could be buggy touchscreen software not calculating correct values, which may be fixed in a firmware update.

At least on my n800, the touchscreen feels softer and thicker around the more responsive areas. The areas that are less responsive, are much harder. "Tap" vs "knock", almost as if the touchscreen itself is uneven.

[Milhouse]

I've tested maemopad+ on my N800 and I have a loss of sensitity in the vertical scrollbar region - this isn't a great surprise as I've often had difficulty dragging the scrollbar thumbtrack on the first attempt.

Bug #1069 (https://maemo.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1069) raised, now to see if Nokia respond.

[9a6or]

Below is my N800's distribution of pressure sensitivity generated with MaemoPad+ showing a reduction along the right edge in a cresent shape. This pattern seems to match the findings of others although different patterns were also reported.

http://uk.geocities.com/gabor.barton@btinternet.com/ScreenPressure.jpg

[richie]

It could be buggy touchscreen software not calculating correct values, which may be fixed in a firmware update.

Some here report it got progressively worse, did it get progressively worse for everyone? It might be software, and reflashing might reset the progression?

[ColonelMustard]

My tablet did get progressively worse when the problem first arose. Since my initial posting the dead zone hasnt gotten any larger however it may have become even less responsive. Although i can still get the tablet to register clicks in that region the pressure required seems to have increased, but I can't say for sure.

As 9a60r pointed out, I also am able to draw a line starting outside the dead zone and have it continue into this area but, thanks to Maemopad+'s pressure sensitivity, i can see that the line's thickness does decrease when the line enters this area and subsequently increases back upon exiting.
Anyways its nice to know that others have experienced this. I still havent resolved to send my tablet into nokia.
I'll try reflashing one of these days.

[paulh]

I don't know if it is a good idea or not, but for PDAs it has been suggested that as a temporary fix you can press the touchpad's gel back in to place:

<http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Campus/9054/tapbuga.html#Massage>

[disq]

I have this problem also, with my made-in-korea n800. Scrollbar region, as well as the bottom left corner of the screen is affected. I didn't do a dot-test but even doing a draw-straight-line test shows it. The affected areas of the screen are kinda squishy, drawing on these areas you get the feeling of a 770's squishy touchscreen.

[richie]

I know this is awaiting a reply on bugzilla (https://maemo.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1069), but from this thread here (http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4800&page=2) it talks about the backlight being positioned on the right hand side. Besides the software under question, I wondered if the backight is causing the problem, heat from it or the position of it, as most of the issues stem from the right hand side of the screen, the same side as the back light. Pure speculation in linking the two, hopefully a revised software image is the key!

[Texrat]

I wonder if that has any impact on the problems I've experienced with web window scrolling...

Anyway, I have no technical data on this, sorry, and my duties related to the N800 have just been significantly reduced (not due to anything on my part... just... "business".

EDIT: this is one reason I favor a scroll wheel-- ancillary hardware solutions for frequently used functions will reduce wear and tear on the touchscreen.

[Milhouse]

This (http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/developers/18162) recent newsgroup discussion suggests there are two problems contributing to loss of pressure sensitivity - one is firmware related, the other is a hardware problem with some touchscreens.

Since I don't think we're discussing the firmware issue in this thread, it may be time to contact Nokia for repair/replacement. :(

[richie]

Since I don't think we're discussing the firmware issue in this thread, it may be time to contact Nokia for repair/replacement. :( Please post back how it goes. I tried Nokia UK support and had issues about not being part of Nokia Club and at the time the UK freepost repair option was not available, and no physical repair centres near me accepting anything other than phones. I was though able to send mine back - for a dodgy button problem - within 7 days of purchase. I'm about to buy my replacement, hopefully Nokia have corrected this touch screen issue.

[9a6or]

I've just sent Nokia UK Customer Services the following:

The touchscreen has reduced pressure sensitivity on the right side, along the vertical scrollbar (in a browser window) and over the right end of the virtual keyboard. It takes several stronger stylus presses in this area to register a click and this impedes functionality of the device. This problem was reported by a large number of users on http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4690

Has this problem been fixed, ie. if I return my device for repair, would I get a screen with even pressure sensitivity?

[richie]

Have you heard back from Nokia? Is the sensitivity issue resolved?

Rich

[konfoo]

I have the same problem with mine. A reboot actually helped marginally but it takes quite a bit of pressure to move the right scroll bar up and down. The VK's enter key is also problematic - I have to really punch it with the pen for it to work.

[9a6or]

Apart from the courtesy blurb, below is the essence of the reply from NokiaHelpLine (dated 23rd Feb):

"...With regard to your email concerning your Nokia N800 Internet Tablet, please be advised that we will be in touch as soon as possible about the repair of your device."

Not very promising so far...

[konfoo]

Any update on this? The right side of my touchscreen (specifically the scroll bar area) is at the point now where I have to apply force to get it to function. I'm at the point of replacing my unit as well.

[9a6or]

No change in the UK.

[Milhouse]

Nokia UK just called to arrange pickup of my first N800 - rep on phone didn't know if it was a common problem or if it would definately be fixed, it was his first N800 he'd arranged for repair.

Good that Nokia are arranging pickup from any address of my choosing, can't fault them for that kind of service. He also said one-two week turnaround.

One question - what do I return the N800 with to avoid losing parts? Do I return just the device and battery, but keep the battery cover + stylus etc? I was running around trying to find the device (needed the WLAN number) when he said what to return and forgot to get him to repeat it! :)

[richie]

One question - what do I return the N800 with to avoid losing parts? Do I return just the device and battery, but keep the battery cover + stylus etc? I was running around trying to find the device (needed the WLAN number) when he said what to return and forgot to get him to repeat it! :)

I'd take off the stylus, battery, memory cards and just send the device. they should have enough stylus, batteries etc to do what they need to. Though I've got no experience with Nokia repairs.

I did have a Sony camera that had a fault and Sony asked to just return the camera minus battery and accessories. When fixed it was returned with a new li-ion battery!

Rich

[Milhouse]

I'd take off the stylus, battery, memory cards and just send the device. they should have enough stylus, batteries etc to do what they need to. Though I've got no experience with Nokia repairs.

I did have a Sony camera that had a fault and Sony asked to just return the camera minus battery and accessories. When fixed it was returned with a new li-ion battery!

Rich

I was planning to send just the device and a fully charged battery... tempted to not send the battery now! ;)

[Texrat]

Just send the essential device, no parts at all. Those are the RMA instructions in every electronic device I've checked.

[Milhouse]

Just the device it is then - many thanks Rich & Texrat. :)

[9a6or]

Hmmm... Nokia collected my N770 yesterday (replacement of cracked plastic near mic). I included the unit with battery and cover, plus the sliding case, minus the stylus. My thinking was to protect the unit in transit and to make life easier for them, ie. to be able to do the repair and test the device as quickly as possible.

I hope I'll get everything back...

Advice on what has to be sent in for repair should really be a sticky item or go into a FAQ.

[Texrat]

I made the mistake of shipping a monitor back for replacement with its stand-- new monitor arrived sans stand. :( But they sent me one after I asked.

[gammer]

As many others, I also experience a reduced responsiveness of the screen at the right side. Today I observed that after a few minutes the temperature of the screen becomes much higher on the right side than on the left. Somebody here remarked that the responsiveness definitely depends on the temperature and that the software takes the temperature into account when computing the pressure of taps. Now I wonder whether this is the cause of the problem - in this case firmware could fix this hypothetical design error.

[richie]

As many others, I also experience a reduced responsiveness of the screen at the right side. Today I observed that after a few minutes the temperature of the screen becomes much higher on the right side than on the left. Somebody here remarked that the responsiveness definitely depends on the temperature and that the software takes the temperature into account when computing the pressure of taps. Now I wonder whether this is the cause of the problem - in this case firmware could fix this hypothetical design error.

I think the backlight is on the right, so probably it would be warmer than the left. Though if temperature from the backlight is excessive maybe that is the cause? You could test this by making sure screen tap sounds are on, switching off the backlight and testing the screen from a cold start.

Rich

[Texrat]

Backlight emitters are definitely on the right. I suggested in another post that they are a possible culprit.

[gammer]

The experiment as suggested by richie seems to falsify the temperature theory. Still problems after (really :) cold boot and wtith minimized backlight (although this is not a serious effect in my case).

[dunsun]

I have got the same problem. The whole right part of the screen is very less sensitive then the rest of the screen !!
Any suggestions (new firmware, repair) ?

[dunsun]

I have got the same problem. The whole right part of the screen is very less sensitive then the rest of the screen !!
Any suggestions (new firmware, repair) ?

And I can not add it to bugzilla ... error occuring during inserting :-(

[rachid]

i had the same problem with my N770. The Nokia Support change the whole touchscreen.

[Texrat]

I have got the same problem. The whole right part of the screen is very less sensitive then the rest of the screen !!
Any suggestions (new firmware, repair) ?

Repair. Firmware won't fix this, sorry.

[Adam_n800]

damn, well i have to be added onto the list of people with dead areas on the N800 :( sad to say..

I know why this is though. Think about where the most places you use the stylus, for buttons there is enough area to use your finger in most cases but for navigation in Opera or RSS feeds etc most people tend to use the scroll bar alot via the stylus as the finger is too big to drag when the bar is really small.

I think this is the main cause for the sensitivity problem on the right. Now I'm finding myself pressing the scrollbar several times until I hear it click and so I can drag down or up.

[manux]

Myself has the same problem. I've had my n800 for couple of weeks only and the area in the middle of right edge can no longer be called a touchscreen. I have to press it very firmly to get any reaction. Sliders in any app in fullscreen are hardly usable :-( Backspace key on the software keypad is also affected and so is the slider's down arrow button while typing on keypad. Anyone got this damn thing fixed? I am going to service point right after I am back in Finland in a week. Hope this is not just a 'feature' of n800...

[Texrat]

As I've said before, here's my suspicion:

1. The right side is possibly affected by the emitter array;

2. Heavy web browsing is prematurely wearing out the right side;

3. Firmware may contribute (I realize this contradicts what I said earlier, but what I mean is that firmware won't solve it if the cause is hardware)

I lean more toward #2, but that of course could be easily disproved if enough users experience this on brand new devices with little use. Another wrinkle is that I once briefly experienced a scrolling sensitivity problem (posted here somewhere) on an earlier firmware release.

If anything is added to the next tablet design, I'd like it to be a scroll wheel/button/whatever to take the bulk of the abuse off of the tablet.

[Karel Jansens]

As I've said before, here's my suspicion:

1. The right side is possibly affected by the emitter array;

2. Heavy web browsing is prematurely wearing out the right side;

3. Firmware may contribute

I lean more toward #2, but that of course could be easily disproved if enough users experience this on brand new devices with little use. Another wrinkle is that I once briefly experienced a scrolling sensitivity problem (posted here somewhere) on an earlier firmware release.

If anything is added to the next tablet design, I'd like it to be a scroll wheel/button/whatever to take the bulk of the abuse off of the tablet.

Oh, Come on! that is such cr*p! I've used a MessagePad for five years dayly and heavily, without ever losing even a fraction of sensitivity on the touchscreen, not even on the statusbar, which is the most intensively used part (actually even more so than the scroll bars on Hildon, because Newton has scroll arrows without a bar). Are you trying to tell us that the Nokia's brand new touchscreen is somehow technically inferior to the MessagePad's screen, which is 10 (ten!) years old?

It's blooming Nokia skimping out on quality control, that's what it is! Some doofus at Nokia probably thinks "Open Source" also means "don't check if the nerds' hardware works".

[Saturn]

Hi all,

Unfortunately I'm having the same problem with my new N800.

It seemed clear to me that there is a problem with the sensitivity so I made this small test using the maemopad+.

282

It is clearly visible that the lines in the right corner are much thinner..

One more thing that i have noticed is that the problem is not persistent. Yesterday, I have been using 'extensively' the x-term and the backspace was always working with a simple touch. Today, not only that but also several other letters need multiple 'touches' to work.

Chris

[Milhouse]

Unfortunately there's been no sign of my repaired N800 from Nokia UK which suffered from this problem (same as yours Saturn - right hand side/vertical scroll bar). I won't be able to chase it up until Tuesday as it's a public holiday on Monday. :(

I'm itching to find out if this problem can be resolved by a repair (LCD has been replaced, apparently). :)

[manux]

The issue that we discuss in this thread has nothing to do with heavy used parts of the screen. As I mentioned in my post I have had my n800 for couple of weeks only, meaning 2-3 weeks, and it's 2-3 weeks of rather light use. The touchscreen sensitivity issue has been there from very beginning and I have strong feeling that it is getting worse very rapidly. Last week I checked my friend's device which came together with mine in one delivery and its screen has exactly the same problem. I went to Nokia Flagship Store in Helsinki just to ensure that it's not just my device. I checked three devices from store's exposition and every single one of them had exactly the same problem.

[Saturn]

The issue that we discuss in this thread has nothing to do with heavy used parts of the screen. As I mentioned in my post I have had my n800 for couple of weeks only, meaning 2-3 weeks, and it's 2-3 weeks of rather light use. The touchscreen sensitivity issue has been there from very beginning and I have strong feeling that it is getting worse very rapidly.

I cannot agree more. It's 3 weeks for me too and I have used much more the left side which is not affected! There is a small possibility to be the firmware; I leave that possibility open since I don't how the pressure is registered or if you could compensate the lack of sensitivity in 'special' areas. Most probable cause though seems to be faulty hardware.

Last week I checked my friend's device which came together with mine in one delivery and its screen has exactly the same problem. I went to Nokia Flagship Store in Helsinki just to ensure that it's not just my device. I checked three devices from store's exposition and every single one of them had exactly the same problem.

This is really scary. I only hope that this is only in the first or some specific batches and that later it was fixed. Many others seems not to have this problem which must mean something like that.

Nokia makes really good devices and the 770/N800 look like they were made from a different company which used the logo.. This doesn't mean that I am not in love with my N800!

[Saturn]

Unfortunately there's been no sign of my repaired N800 from Nokia UK which suffered from this problem (same as yours Saturn - right hand side/vertical scroll bar). I won't be able to chase it up until Tuesday as it's a public holiday on Monday. :(

I'm itching to find out if this problem can be resolved by a repair (LCD has been replaced, apparently). :)

Please let us know of the result and how much time they needed for the repair.
Thanks, Chris

[Milhouse]

I contacted the sub-contracted repair company on Monday (2 April) which is when I found out it had already been repaired with a replacement LCD - note: no contact from Nokia or the repair company, I had to track them down for an update.

I had expected it back by Friday at the latest, but no luck. I'll have to contact them again on Tuesday to find out where the heck it is.

Rest assured you'll get a full update when I have it back! :)

[Texrat]

Oh, Come on! that is such cr*p! I've used a MessagePad for five years dayly and heavily, without ever losing even a fraction of sensitivity on the touchscreen, not even on the statusbar, which is the most intensively used part (actually even more so than the scroll bars on Hildon, because Newton has scroll arrows without a bar). Are you trying to tell us that the Nokia's brand new touchscreen is somehow technically inferior to the MessagePad's screen, which is 10 (ten!) years old?

It's blooming Nokia skimping out on quality control, that's what it is! Some doofus at Nokia probably thinks "Open Source" also means "don't check if the nerds' hardware works".

Relax Karel. You appear to have jumped to reply before actually reading my post. In case others did as well, kindly note that I was brainstorming, NOT specifying known cause. That should have been readily apparent.

Karel, kindly remove chip from shoulder and read again, thanks.

As for your broad condemnation, I can personally guaran-damn-tee you that at least some parts of Nokia Quality Assurance worked EXTREMELY hard on assuring N800 quality. But I realize it's very easy to rant without having experienced the flip side of the situation.

[disq]

Textrat, imo it's the way the internet tablet screens are/were always problematic (both on the 770 and the n800) that are making people frustrated. High density (~220 ppi) touchscreens (or touchscreen manufacturers) are probably hard to come by but it's not really an excuse because Nokia is such a big player and manufacturer in international mobile electronics. I can accept the design(cpu/ram wise, not case design) and material-selection(bad touchscreen) errors in Nokia 770 because it's such a new design/device, but seeing a similar error repeated (problematic touchscreen, I really don't care how it's a different problem because the regular customer won't care either) repeated in a beauty like n800 is just frustrating to me.

[manux]

I've just scanned how my n800's screen is mounted and noticed one thing. If you look into the gap between the silver cover and the display you'll notice that there is a metal frame around the lcd, keeping it tightly. Tightly everywhere around the display, except for where the problematic sensivity area is located. The frame on the right edge of the lcd is loose and it's bent a bit. There is a gap between the frame and the lcd surface an the gap is biggest exactly where the sensivity is worst. No idea whether this has anything to do with the sensitivity issue.

[Texrat]

Textrat, imo it's the way the internet tablet screens are/were always problematic (both on the 770 and the n800) that are making people frustrated. High density (~220 ppi) touchscreens (or touchscreen manufacturers) are probably hard to come by but it's not really an excuse because Nokia is such a big player and manufacturer in international mobile electronics. I can accept the design(cpu/ram wise, not case design) and material-selection(bad touchscreen) errors in Nokia 770 because it's such a new design/device, but seeing a similar error repeated (problematic touchscreen, I really don't care how it's a different problem because the regular customer won't care either) repeated in a beauty like n800 is just frustrating to me.

I understand this and believe I have made that clear numerous times.

I believe I've also made clear that while I want to objectively engage in brainstorming and root cause analysis rather than engage in futile venting, I don't intend to let Nokia off the hook.

Let me run you folks through a hypothetical scenario:

Company N decides to make and market a widget... we'll call it widget7. The widget is unique, advanced and complex. Company N understands the potential widget market well, having been successful in parallel enterprises and engaged in detailed analysis of the potential market. Company N is also heavily involved in the infrastructure that will support the deployed widgets, another factor that should help the product's success.

Company N relies on other companies to make widget components, especially the doohickey, an extremely advanced part manufactured by the highly reputable Company S. Company S proves themselves adept at making the required doohickeys for widget7. There are, however, some defective doohickeys that make their way into widget7s.

Even as widget7 begins slowly infiltrating the enthusiast marketplace, Company N is already hard at work on widget8. Widget8 requires a more advanced doohickey, based on user feedback from widget7. Let's call it doohickey+. Company S demonstrates that they can handle it, assuring Company N they've addressed the earlier issues. In fact, the purchasing agreement makes Company S completely responsible for outgoing quality of the doohickey+.

Let that sink in.

Company N will still perform full testing on assembled products, of course, although using an AQL sample. As we all know by now, AQL sampling is designed to pass products, not fail them-- the goal is to sample a number that gives you confidence that IF your lot fails then you are not failing the entire lot unnecessarily. It is a gamble that almost every consumer device manufacturer makes, since it is time and cost prohibitive to fully inspect every single item in large lots. Let's say the lots are 10,000 per production run. Let's also say that sample sizes are 315 devices out of that lot, arrived at by standard statistical formulae.

Company N performs their testing and finds no doohickey+ defects during the production run. Testing is extensive and ensures that all critical functionality is covered.

After a couple of months, it becomes apparent that a tiny minority of purchased widget8s have problems with their doohickey+s. Based on the AQL sampling, Company N knows without a doubt that the defects affected no more than 5% of produced devices. They know this because, based on the sample technique, anything more than 5% would have caused defective doohickey+s to appear in the tested devices, enough to fail the lot and drive rework. 5% of 10,000 is 500. That seems like a lot to the purchasers, who congregate in a forum to commiserate, but of course quality engineers know that it is not. Still, the following formula applies:

Perception = Reality.

Unknown to those angry purchasers, even as defective doohickey+s showed up in the wild, they also appeared in internally-acquired devices. Company N passes this along to Company S, who was responsible for letting the defective doohickey+s out of their plant. Corrective and preventive measures are taken.

Company N's repair systems *should* be equipped to handle the ~500 devices in the wild, but for inexplicable reasons they are not. What should have been a small, easily-contained situation festers until it appears larger than it really is due to the justified complaints of a vocal minority. The situation escalates-


-and that's where I have to end our fairy tale. The real ending has yet to be written.

;)

[disq]

Great hypothetical scenario, thanks. ;) I think it's also about the way these devices are handled by Nokia service points. I know that if I gave up my device* I may not see it again for two or three months (according to the chatter here in ITT forums) and more than 3 days is not "good service" to most people, and more than a week is just unacceptable.

That is also the reason my Nokia 770 (that has lost almost all touchscreen sensitivity but the screen edge areas) is sitting on the desk and not in some OSS-friendly friend's backpack.


* Not that the 770/n800 are sold in my country, so no service points that could repair them here. More than a week won't work if I were to send them abroad (to get service) with a friend either, since they won't be shipping the item back internationally and somebody has to pick it up. (obviously the issue is the service times and not the international shipping policies)

[Texrat]

Yeah, I dinged the service system in the last paragraph. ;)

[diabloNL]

I'm also have this problem with the right side and mine is bought on June the 7th. Sending it back for repair is something I'm not going to do at this point because it seems the chance is really high getting the same problem again even if they would replace the screen.

I thought mine wouldn't have this problem because the box had two Nokia seals on it and the down one was broken. I was hoping that Nokia opened it to upgrade the unit for this problem but unfortunately I was wrong. Still makes me wonder why they opened the box.

[bedii]

I just got a N800 used from someone on Craigslist that has the same problem--and clearly the previous owner just hit it harder and harder so it has very fine scratches all over the right scroll bar area. Unfortunately, since I got this one used I doubt if I'm going to be able to send it to Nokia for repair without having to spend an arm and a leg--I strongly suspect it's out of warrantee...

[Frankowitz]

I'm also have this problem with the right side and mine is bought on June the 7th. Sending it back for repair is something I'm not going to do at this point because it seems the chance is really high getting the same problem again even if they would replace the screen.

I thought mine wouldn't have this problem because the box had two Nokia seals on it and the down one was broken. I was hoping that Nokia opened it to upgrade the unit for this problem but unfortunately I was wrong. Still makes me wonder why they opened the box.

Sounds like a refurbished/used one, Diablo.

Over je dode zone: je had dit forum eerst moeten bekijken. Bijna iedereen heeft er last van.

[Milhouse]

I just got a N800 used from someone on Craigslist that has the same problem--and clearly the previous owner just hit it harder and harder so it has very fine scratches all over the right scroll bar area. Unfortunately, since I got this one used I doubt if I'm going to be able to send it to Nokia for repair without having to spend an arm and a leg--I strongly suspect it's out of warrantee...

Warranty should be at least a year (could be longer in some countries, and possibly shorter in others but that would be criminal...) and as long as Nokia don't ask for proof of purchase (they didn't for my repair in the UK) you should still be covered by the original warranty. N800s were only released on 8 January 2007 so you should still have plenty of time left assuming you have a 1 year warranty in the US (I assume you have at least that). Just contact Nokia Support.

Also check whether the original owner removed the plastic cover that is used to protect the LCD during shipping - with a bit of luck it's the plastic screen protector that is now scratched and not the screen itself. :)

[diabloNL]

Sounds like a refurbished/used one, Diablo.

Over je dode zone: je had dit forum eerst moeten bekijken. Bijna iedereen heeft er last van.


I know almost everyone has got this problem and that's the reason I'm not going to send it back. ;)

I can't imagin that my unit would be a refurbished one because I bought it in the official Nokia shop online. They opened it for some reason but I will never find out what that reason was. One thing that could have to do with it is that for some reason all stores were sold out and waiting for the n800 to arrive for like four weeks. That's the reason I bought it online in the official nokia store. So it could be that the stores were waiting for restock because nokia had to upgrade something in the device or in the box even.

[momcilo]

Hi,

I am the unhappy owner of N770 (widget7), which gradually loses sensitivity. The first problem I experienced was the small spot at the center of menu button (2x2mm). The problem occurred 7 months. Being the software engineer, at first I thought the problem was caused by the faulty theme was installed just before I've noticed the problem. Later, after re-flashing I figured it is a hardware issue.

The problem didn't get worse, until this week (one year and 5 months). I've found out that there is a huge area, with reduced sensitivity on the right-lower part of the screen. This makes it almost impossible to use handwriting recognition. The area is still responsible to finger pressures(I can't see the difference compared to other areas). Applying stronger pressure on the affected area causes touchscreen to respond. Off course, this is not the lasting solution.

Today, I've decided to seek information on N800(widget8) issues with the idea to replace my N770(widget7) with it. Sadly, I've discovered the poll which indicated that at least 50% of people are having problems. The statistical sample was fairly large (at least 100 devices).

Also I've read about the latest firmware which supposedly fixes the problem. Frankly, I think company N is throwing sand in the eyes of the customers. I can accept that some devices may require calibration, but in this case the N company is just delaying the inevitable. Many users will experience the problem, flash the firmware, and continue happily to use device, until the problem reappears. Furthermore what is the point in replacing the faulty parts, since the problem can reoccur. I expect that at least 1/3 of the replaced devices, will suffer the problem again in six months.

My conclusion:

I've decided to continue using N770 until it dies.
I really hoped for these devices to be successful but... I will not purchase any other internet tablet from company N for following reasons:


The N company has repeated the same mistake twice in a row, failing to correct known hardware issue. Even worse, they are trying to postpone problem until the device run out of warranty! I know, heavy accusation, but I am afraid completely correct - I don't blame Nokia engineers for this, given the difficulties, they produced excellent proof of concept product - N770. Unfortunately N800 should have been much more than the proof of concept, instead it seem like a catastrophe.
The N company did sell devices advertising features (VoiP), which were unavailable at the moment (with constant postponing, and buzzing from the bloggers, who actually provided excellent mouth-to-mouth-marketing coverage). From my point of view you don't just sell to the client something which exists only in the brochures. Maybe next time I should offer company N to pay only half of the price, until they actually finish the product?
The N company has dropped support for N770, after one year since it was introduced.


Instead of widget8 from company N, I will probably purchase product FFFFF from company PPPP (yap, there is such product!). They seem to be very experienced with touchscreens, and have better quality in terms of quality of hardware, software and support.
It is my opinion that Nokia should extend warranty period for the owners of both N770 and N800. Recently, I've read that Micro$oft had to extend warranty periods for XBox 360, possible because of the lawsuits.
I strongly suggest all future widgetX buyers (the ones to replace faulty N770/N800) to patiently wait until possible issues are discovered.



Question: Are there any Bloggers to openly discuss the problems?(aside from the onces affiliated with company N).

Best luck to all of widget7 and widget8, may the screens survive!

[CobraKC]

The new firmware, totally fixes the touchscreen for me.I had a scollbar dead spot but now its like new, totally sensitive everywhere. JuSt like new. HoPe this helps. I Was reconsidering about exchanging, but now It is fixed and extremely happy.
cobra.

[Dom Queron]

Yepp, the new firmware fixes this 100% and improves overall sensitivity of the screen everywhere.