What exactly is Meego ? Openness, synergies, etc.

[me2000]

I'm having a really hard time figuring out what exactly Meego is going to be and how Intel/Nokia are going to open it up.

First, how much of Meego is going to be open as in open source ?

Would Nokia go so far as to contribute the drivers for the devices (N900, etc) to kernel source so that everyone can use them and these devices run "standard" kernels ?

If not, are the hardware drivers going to be open source ?

If not, will the driver interfaces be documented so that mere mortals can write apps that utilize the hardware directly ?

I understand that Meego uses Qt. Is Meego, the GUI layer, going to have a programming interface ala KDE or will people write apps directly in Qt ?

I don't understand where the synergies lie, other than reusing Qt. Although Qt is large and reusing it is a good thing, the base of KDE code and all the apps that run on it is even larger.

I'm hoping that Meego = "KDE mobile" in that a lot of KDE gets reused and KDE apps, or at least "mobilized KDE" apps can run on it.

Otherwise Meego is still a "from the foundation up" effort. (Qt = foundation)

If Nokia et al don't totally open up the development process to something resembling the KDE and Fedora teams, we will still be reliant on the whims of Nokia, just like we are with Maemo 5 right now.

If Maemo 5 was truly open and the community owned it, we would know what the plan is moving forward. And we don't. Look at Fedora. At any time one can attend virtual meetings, help plan future releases, view the next release plan, contribute code, etc.

Are we going to be able to do that with Meego ? Or will it be another company project disguised as an open source project ?

Meego has the potential to start a revolution in small device operating systems or it can be yet another failed OS. I really hope that Nokia is brave and gets this right.

[lfcobra]

I dont have answers to most of what you asked but as far as:

At any time one can attend virtual meetings, help plan future releases, view the next release plan, contribute code, etc.

Are we going to be able to do that with Meego ? Or will it be another company project disguised as an open source project ?

check out http://meego.com/community/blogs
There are dates and times where IRC meetings will be held that you can listen in on and even contribute.

As far as
First, how much of Meego is going to be open as in open source ?
meego is a Linux foundation project so I'd imagine its going to be fully open source. As far as drivers so that n900 hardware is fully functional I think thats entirely up to Nokia whether they want to develop/release those or not.

Warning: I am in no way affiliated with the meego project. I am just a n900 enthusiast and this is the information as i understand it.

[floffe]

The parts mentioned in http://meego.com/sites/all/files/users/u6/MeeGo-Arch-FullSize.png are supposed to be open source, apart from "other UX's" which is where device manufacturers can add in their differentiation. The two UX's mentioned there are open, reference ones (with BSD-style licenses, so device manufacturers have somewhere to start). See http://meego.com/about/licensing-policy and http://meego.com/developers/meego-architecture

[VDVsx]

First, how much of Meego is going to be open as in open source ?


I heard several times 100% open, but careful with your definition of MeeGo ;)


Would Nokia go so far as to contribute the drivers for the devices (N900, etc) to kernel source so that everyone can use them and these devices run "standard" kernels ?


Hint: Look at the omap3 tree of the kernel ;)

I understand that Meego uses Qt. Is Meego, the GUI layer, going to have a programming interface ala KDE or will people write apps directly in Qt ?


Programming interface ala KDE ? last time I checked KDE was a Desktop environment(DE), there's also the KDE libs(written with Qt), but you're confusing a lot of stuff here, same in the other questions. But in the end MeeGo is linux if you want to port all the KDE stuff + Gnome + LXDE you can do it.

[Crashdamage]

First, how much of Meego is going to be open as in open source ?
As I understand it the entire OS (except some drivers) will be open, hosted by the Linux Foundation, free for anyone to adapt to their hardware, add a custom UI, etc.

Would Nokia go so far as to contribute the drivers for the devices (N900, etc) to kernel source so that everyone can use them and these devices run "standard" kernels?
If not, are the hardware drivers going to be open source?
Nokia probably would, but they don't own the rights to all the drivers, the manufacturers of the hardware used in Nokia phones do. So it's up to those manufacturers.

If not, will the driver interfaces be documented so that mere mortals can write apps that utilize the hardware directly?
Don't know.

I understand that Meego uses Qt. Is Meego, the GUI layer, going to have a programming interface ala KDE or will people write apps directly in Qt?
Apps will be written in Qt. KDE itself is a kinda huge Qt app. To put it another way, Qt must be installed to run KDE. KDE does not need to to installed to run apps written in Qt. Does that clear it up a bit for you?

I'm hoping that Meego = "KDE mobile" in that a lot of KDE gets reused and KDE apps, or at least "mobilized KDE" apps can run on it.
It will NOT be "KDE mobile" and thank God for that. KDE is badly bloated for a desktop, way too much for a pocket computer. I don't see where KDE as such would have a useful place in pocket computing.

Otherwise Meego is still a "from the foundation up" effort. (Qt = foundation)
Not so. Think of MeeGo as another new distro but just of the mobile variety.

I really hope that Nokia is brave and gets this right.
I have more confidence than ever that they will. They've open-sourced Qt, Symbian and now MeeGo. They would seem to have their heads on straight about this stuff.

[me2000]

Thanks guys. I'm liking everything I am hearing.

I understand that KDE is big and some think its bloated. That is why I mentioned "KDE mobile". The reason I want some sort of KDE related platform is so that we'll have the ability to run KDE apps or at least port parts of them.

Maybe I should ask this... will Meego allow one to run gnome or KDE apps ? If it doesn't we lose the ability to run all the great OS Linux apps like Evolution, Open Office, Amarok, etc. I know those apps are very large and bulky but if the Meego platform really took off the developers could build light "mobile" versions.

The other thing to remember is that processor power and storage increases every year... in 5 years we'll have desktop levels of processor power and storage in our hands.

I **LOVE** the though of running a true, open Linux distro on my mobile device. It will be really nice to haves something that persists from phone generation to generation. Meego is long overdue.

[Crashdamage]

I want some sort of KDE related platform is so that we'll have the ability to run KDE apps or at least port parts of them... will Meego allow one to run gnome or KDE apps ?
In basic terms, yes. They will need to be compiled to run on MeeGo, though.

If it doesn't we lose the ability to run all the great OS Linux apps like Evolution, Open Office, Amarok, etc.
You're misunderstanding the KDE/Gnome thing a bit I think. The KDE or Gnome 'platforms' do not need to be installed to run KDE or Gnome apps. Only the required libraries must be installed - Qt for KDE apps, GTK for Gnome apps. MeeGo, like Maemo, will have support for both Qt and GTK, so basically no problem.

[me2000]

I am somewhat confused in this area. I've never looked at the dependencies for KDE apps.

That is the best news I've heard on Meego yet.

[ceefour]

Check this out for an example of MeeGo's openness in IRC Meetings:

http://wiki.meego.com/L10N_IRC_Meeting_March_5,_2010

y'all should join! :)

[Matan]

Nokia probably would, but they don't own the rights to all the drivers, the manufacturers of the hardware used in Nokia phones do. So it's up to those manufacturers.


No, this is wrong.

There is Nokia hardware in 770/N800/N810/N900 that Nokia does not release the code or the relevant programming interface.

[Crashdamage]

No, this is wrong.

There is Nokia hardware in 770/N800/N810/N900 that Nokia does not release the code or the relevant programming interface.
Not necessarily. You're thinking in terms of Nokia's past practices mostly on older devices. It remains to be seen just how all this will shake out with MeeGo. But with opening up Qt, Symbian and now MeeGo, they now seem to have a much more open attitude in general. And qgil has said (somewhere here, don't ask me to find the post) Nokia may be willing to open up drivers for their own hardware in MeeGo, but that some drivers belong to other manufacturers (TI, etc.) and it would be on them to follow suit.

Maybe I'm wrong...but I'd rather hope for the best than assume the worst.

[ColonelKilkenny]

This may be a bit off topic but can someone (Quim?) confirm that Harmattan/MeeGo will be shipping with Theora codec?
I mean, Vorbis support is confirmed, but what about Theora? All the bug reports regarding shipping with Theora are being marked as duplicates for bug that is just about Vorbis being there on default.

So has Nokia changed it's views regarding Theora & submarine patents or not?

[attila77]

This may be a bit off topic but can someone (Quim?) confirm that Harmattan/MeeGo will be shipping with Theora codec?
I mean, Vorbis support is confirmed, but what about Theora? All the bug reports regarding shipping with Theora are being marked as duplicates for bug that is just about Vorbis being there on default.

So has Nokia changed it's views regarding Theora & submarine patents or not?

Though I must say that the appeal of Theora on Harmattan is not that great, considering it's not a codec supported by the OMAP3s hardware acceleration module. While cool from a community/FOSS perspective, I fear it will mean little in practice.

[ColonelKilkenny]

Though I must say that the appeal of Theora on Harmattan is not that great, considering it's not a codec supported by the OMAP3s hardware acceleration module. While cool from a community/FOSS perspective, I fear it will mean little in practice.

That's true but it would be still a quite big step forward when it comes to HTML5 debate etc. Biggest possible player (when it comes to devices) supporting not just h.264 but also Theora. That might help getting hardware support as well.

[lma]

But with opening up Qt, Symbian and now MeeGo, they now seem to have a much more open attitude in general.

Not picking on anyone specifically, but I see this myth going around a lot lately. Nokia didn't open Qt, Trolltech did. After a long and controversial/convoluted history (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qt_%28framework%29#Licensing), Qt 4.0 was licenced under the GPLv2 back in 2005 (http://mail.kde.org/pipermail/dot-stories/2005-June/000587.html), and then they added GPLv3 in 2008 (http://labs.trolltech.com/blogs/2008/01/19/qt-3-and-4-licensed-under-gplv3/) (just a few days before the Nokia acquisition was announced).

Nokia just added LGPLv2.1 (note: not v3!) so it can be used for closed-source apps without royalties. GPLv3 and commercial licences are still available.

[lma]

Though I must say that the appeal of Theora on Harmattan is not that great, considering it's not a codec supported by the OMAP3s hardware acceleration module.

Neither is vorbis, but many of us have been happily enjoying our .oggs for years :-)

[attila77]

Neither is vorbis, but many of us have been happily enjoying our .oggs for years :-)

Sure, but .oggs are a tad different story as audio is not as taxing on today's hardware as high resolution video is.

[lma]

BTW, DSP-decoded Theora on OMAP3 may still (http://www.schleef.org/blog/2009/11/11/theora-on-ti-c64x-dsp-and-omap3/) happen :-)

[qgil]

BTW, DSP-decoded Theora on OMAP3 may still (http://www.schleef.org/blog/2009/11/11/theora-on-ti-c64x-dsp-and-omap3/) happen :-)

The blog post says: "A big thanks to the people that laid the foundations for this work, especially Felipe Contreras."

Indeed!