The N800 _MUST_ have a good PIM to succeed

[jeffmings]

Hello all,

There has been a lot of discussion along the lines of the N800 being "an internet tablet, repeat an internet tablet", and that is where the design is focused. However, for most professionals to adopt the N800, it is crucial that they be able to sync their contacts, calendars, and possibly other data.

Background: I am a computer professional who has owned about 9 PDAs over the past 16 or so years. I long ago realized that a single converged device is a poor solution - I need to carry a phone and an "information device". I need to be able to look up things on my information device while speaking into my phone, and connecting ear buds or using the speaker phone do not suffice. I need to be able to glance at my calendar, access addresses and other info, such as rarely used passwords, IP addresses, etc., and be able to edit them. Inputting info into a phone is a horrible joke - I need something like Palm's graffiti or a good qwerty input pad. I have established that 2 devices are needed. However, carrying a 3rd larger device is too inconvenient. My phone, keys and coins in my left pants pocket, and a full-screen PDA in my right pants pocket make a workable arrangement.

Therefore, the N800 _must_ be able to replace my PDA. In order to do that, it needs a good (doesn't even have to be great) PIM suite that syncs with my computer. I have held onto my aging Sony Clie NX70 for about 4 years because I haven't found anything better. It syncs perfectly with my Mac, has a bigger screen than a treo, a keyboard, a camera, and a long battery life. Pocket PC devices abound, but require 1 to 3 steps more to do almost operation than is required under Palm OS.

The N800 is _Wonderful_ and superior to all of the PDAs out there in almost every way. But it desperately needs a good PIM suite. The good folks at Nokia can't afford to ignore this. (Ari ? I hope you're listening)

Aloha,
-Jeff Mings

[benny1967]

Why do you expect Nokia to develop the PIM suite you need? Everybody can.

[Karel Jansens]

Why do you expect Nokia to develop the PIM suite you need? Everybody can.

That is a fallacy: Not everybody can do this. So it is perfectly justified for the OP to ask for it.

[benny1967]

I dont know... I dont expect my hardware vendor to write an PIM for my desktop-PC, either. Nor do I expect Microsoft to include everything into their OS. (Actually, the very fact that they did put a lot of applications into Windows got them into serious trouble, remember?)

If the 770/N800 were a closed box, running a proprietary OS with no SDK available, then I'd ask the vendor to include features I consider important. But it isn't.

[jurop88]

What else to add to jeffmings post? I'm using my 770 with Winzig for my PIM needs, obviously an integrated solution will be far better, expecially with ical/icontacts sync functions. Imho a good PIM it will be the KA for the platform to blow out everything else

[pdafan]

I agree that the N800 needs a good PIM suite. The current N800 options really aren't usable when compared to Palm or Psion - I haven't used any WinCE based PDAs, but I imagine they integrate well with desktop PIM SW.

However, I wouldn't trust Nokia to come up with such an app on their own. They should be responsible for integrating it, but hopefully they would buy/license the product from someone else! (And hopefully it wouldn't be based on GPE...)

I also like the idea of having a local copy of the information on the device itself rather than depending 100% on the availability of a WiFi network. It's nice to be able to sync the device or to surf the web, but something like an address book should be completely contained in the device. (And it should be a decent address book to begin with, one that let's me define my own database format...)

[spycedtx]

it's a bit early, yet.. less than 24 hrs in dev time, but i'm working on porting kontact.. at least, some of the L&F, and using the underlying code (yay for c++/c marriages) as much as possible. I personally find it to be one of the best PIM/email clients i've ever used.

working on abstracting out the persistence layer enough so any backend could be used (with coding effort of course), but i believe initially, for time sake, i'm going to stick things into sqllite.

kontact is overkill in some areas, so i won't be porting the entire behemoth. but, who knows.

quick screenshots of the UI prototype. (yes, I stole the icons directly from kontact. i should check on that).
241

242

edit: and, i plan on using the contact API built in to the maemo platform as one of the available contact resources.

[fldude99]

I put dejapim and it seems to work ok. There is a fee to synch with outlook which I haven't tried but thinking on it..my SE W810 calendar function works really well with a reminder that works even when the cell is off..so as a professional myself I don't see a need for the N800 to be a PDA

[Karel Jansens]

I put dejapim and it seems to work ok. There is a fee to synch with outlook which I haven't tried but thinking on it..my SE W810 calendar function works really well with a reminder that works even when the cell is off..so as a professional myself I don't see a need for the N800 to be a PDA

I agree, but wouldn't it be great if you could synch your cell PIM with the N800? Using the Internet Tablet for extended entries, cleaning up and whatnot and the cell mainly as a viewer.

[gnuite]

I wonder if people would pay for a PIM on the 770/N800. I've been meaning to start a PIM project with a back end based on Google Calendar and GMail (for contacts); I just don't have the time, and without a C API for Google Data, it won't be easy. I'd quit my day job if I could make enough money writing a PIM for the 770/N800, but I don't think the market is big enough.

Maybe someday, though...

[andymulhearn]

I wonder if people would pay for a PIM on the 770/N800. I've been meaning to start a PIM project with a back end based on Google Calendar and GMail (for contacts); I just don't have the time, and without a C API for Google Data, it won't be easy. I'd quit my day job if I could make enough money writing a PIM for the 770/N800, but I don't think the market is big enough.

Maybe someday, though...

I'd pay of the order of £20 for a synching PIM application. Of course it would have to be iSynch comptable but I'd be happy th shell out some cash for it.

As you say though, is the market big enough?

[GeneralAntilles]

I'd pay of the order of £20 for a synching PIM application. Of course it would have to be iSynch comptable but I'd be happy th shell out some cash for it.

As you say though, is the market big enough?

Seconded, USD though ;). iSync would be the biggest selling point for me.

[sapporobaby]

I agree with Karel and Jeff. For the N800 to experience a real uptake with the community that really matters, the biz community, it will have to provide more biz like applications. Right now for the most part, the N800 is a developer device or for early technology adapters. It has quite a market potential because, as Karel has pointed out, the all in one device is really not very practical. While the concept is laudable, the practical considerations say otherwise.

[wodin]

I put dejapim and it seems to work ok. There is a fee to synch with outlook which I haven't tried but thinking on it..my SE W810 calendar function works really well with a reminder that works even when the cell is off..so as a professional myself I don't see a need for the N800 to be a PDAMy emai from DejaDesktop:

Thank you for your email. Unfortunately, our software is not compatible with the Nokia N800 and we are not planning on adding compatibility for this handheld.



I'm sorry that I could not be of more assistance.



Please feel free to contact us if you have any further questions or concerns.



Thank you --

[sapporobaby]

I put dejapim and it seems to work ok. There is a fee to synch with outlook which I haven't tried but thinking on it..my SE W810 calendar function works really well with a reminder that works even when the cell is off..so as a professional myself I don't see a need for the N800 to be a PDA

Please explain. You put DejaPim on a N770 or an N800? Big difference.

[andymulhearn]

My emai from DejaDesktop:

Thank you for your email. Unfortunately, our software is not compatible with the Nokia N800 and we are not planning on adding compatibility for this handheld.



I'm sorry that I could not be of more assistance.



Please feel free to contact us if you have any further questions or concerns.



Thank you --

Which says to me that they didn't make anywhere near enough revenue from the 770 to be able to support the 800. Not a surprise, their business case never looked that strong to me.

[andymulhearn]

Seconded, USD though ;). iSync would be the biggest selling point for me.

OK, I can go with USD :)

[sapporobaby]

What else to add to jeffmings post? I'm using my 770 with Winzig for my PIM needs, obviously an integrated solution will be far better, expecially with ical/icontacts sync functions. Imho a good PIM it will be the KA for the platform to blow out everything else


Just found a site with Winzig, Can you say that this runs on the N800 and if so, how do you install it? I am not a Linux guy and this is all a bit new to me. I am sure your help will benefit others here as well.

[mbrinkhues]

Had my bosses test the 770. The unit was considered "nice but unuseabel" since it could not sync with Outlook/Exchange. Wether one likes MS or not, the fact remains that they, together with Lotus Notes, have a major share of the Calendar/Contact market. And WinCE PDA's can sync with those two in both directions resonably easy.

So either Nokia delivers an app or get's someone to write an app that can do theses link-ups on a "useable by MBA" level or the Tablet won't make any big inroads. Get's even worse with the new bigger screened WinCE maschines that attract the MBA's and Windows guys because they are VB.NET programmabel.

As far as paying goes: Yes, up to 50€ IF I don't need an external server (that's why DejaPim is out)

[TA-t3]

I'm so totally in agreement with the logic presented by the original poster that if I could have stated it so well myself, I would. Excellently put.

[fpp]

Had my bosses test the 770. The unit was considered "nice but unuseabel" since it could not sync with Outlook/Exchange. Wether one likes MS or not, the fact remains that they, together with Lotus Notes, have a major share of the Calendar/Contact market. And WinCE PDA's can sync with those two in both directions resonably easy.

... not to mention that my entry-level 6021 Nokia phone syncs with Outlook just as well as any PDA I've seen, so it's not like they don't know how, either :-)

[pdafan]

... not to mention that my entry-level 6021 Nokia phone syncs with Outlook just as well as any PDA I've seen, so it's not like they don't know how, either :-)

Nokia (and most engineering companies these days) develops everything with a global effort. It is likely the guys who wrote the SW for your 6021 aren't even in the same part of the world as those who write for the N800 - and even if they were in the same building, it's a completely different software platform. Even if someone in the company can get a phone to sync to Outlook means nothing for the N800.

Now that I've had my moment of griping, I do hope they include a good PIM and syncing at some point.

[YoDude]

Why do you expect Nokia to develop the PIM suite you need? Everybody can.

@ $400 a pop and the Nokia name you would expect something like this...

http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.engadget.com/media/2007/02/05_e90.jpg

... or at the very least more than a calculator, clock, notes, PDF reader, and a sketch app.

If it wasn't for the the community developed apps like Maemo Mapper and Canola the thing would be useless to all but the developers who got it @ $99.

Don't get me wrong, I have a lot of faith in the community and have benefited from collaborative efforts in the past that I was involved with... I mean that's why I'm in.

However, with the number of apps developed for the e90 in house, you would think Nokia could throw a bone or two our way.
I'm sure if someone here developed an app that was "killer" for the N800... It would find its way on to one of Nokia's commercial devices.

[Karel Jansens]

However, with the number of apps developed for the e90 in house, you would think Nokia could throw a bone or two our way.
I'm sure if someone here developed an app that was "killer" for the N800... It would find its way on to one of Nokia's commercial devices.

The E90 is a Symbian, not a Linux device. It runs S60 on top of the Symbian O/S, a platform for which a vast number of applications already exists. Also to be taken into account is the (sad?) fact that there is no significant Open Source community for that platform, plus its backwards compatibility can often be measured in months.

In short, there isn't much of a bone to throw from the Symbian division to the Linux dudes. They don't, in fact, even like each others' bones.

[fluxam]

I'm in complete agreement with YoDude.
Though way out of my depth, I'm pretty certain that what we all want can be accomplished with offline cached content compliant with WHATWG.org in a browser that supports it: see
http://www.bluishcoder.co.nz/2007/02/offline-zimbra-with-firefox.html
I suppose Opera or Nokia might even be able to sell a subscription to something akin. I thought kiko.com was heading in this direction, but angels pulled the plug.

[schmots]

... or at the very least more than a calculator, clock, notes, PDF reader, and a sketch app.


It has all those things out of the box. Under utilities.

[andymulhearn]

... not to mention that my entry-level 6021 Nokia phone syncs with Outlook just as well as any PDA I've seen, so it's not like they don't know how, either :-)

So playing Devil's advocate here, if you synch to your PIM to your phone, why do you need to synch to your N800?

[SD69]

So playing Devil's advocate here, if you synch to your PIM to your phone, why do you need to synch to your N800?
From Nokia's perspective, they are pushing their latest eseries phones which events of the last few weeks publicly show they see as PDA/phone convergence devices. They have also pushed the internet tablet into the N series. What the OP appears to overlook is the possibility of a convergence of PDA/phone. You don't need a 4+ inch WVGA screen for PIM so it is your web browsing/multimedia device. Why duplicate the PIM on the N800 when you can just tether the N800 to the PIM on the eseries. This is what both Ari Jaaksi and the Enterprise solutions folks at Nokia see as the way to proceed. Whether we like it or not, it should now be clear that Nokia is not going to develop a PIM for the internet tablet.

[Karel Jansens]

From Nokia's perspective, they are pushing their latest eseries phones which events of the last few weeks publicly show they see as PDA/phone convergence devices. They have also pushed the internet tablet into the N series. What the OP appears to overlook is the possibility of a convergence of PDA/phone. You don't need a 4+ inch WVGA screen for PIM so it is your web browsing/multimedia device. Why duplicate the PIM on the N800 when you can just tether the N800 to the PIM on the eseries. This is what both Ari Jaaksi and the Enterprise solutions folks at Nokia see as the way to proceed. Whether we like it or not, it should now be clear that Nokia is not going to develop a PIM for the internet tablet.

That would be very nice, but we (well, "I" obviously, and maybe a few others) still would like a way to access, edit and synch our PIM on the IT, seeing as it has the better screen and (marginally) better text entry. And when I say "our PIM", the implication is that not everybody has or wants to have a Nokia phone, so if that's Nokia's vision, they can blooming well come up with a way to link the IT to any phone's PIM in existence, or they stand to lose a lot of street cred with the Open Source crowd. The sort of vendor tie-in that you imply is not frownlessly looked upon in the Linuxverse.

[YoDude]

That would be very nice, but we (well, "I" obviously, and maybe a few others) still would like a way to access, edit and synch our PIM on the IT, seeing as it has the better screen and (marginally) better text entry. And when I say "our PIM", the implication is that not everybody has or wants to have a Nokia phone, so if that's Nokia's vision, they can blooming well come up with a way to link the IT to any phone's PIM in existence, or they stand to lose a lot of street cred with the Open Source crowd. The sort of vendor tie-in that you imply is not frownlessly looked upon in the Linuxverse.

What he^ said...

This convergence is a natural IMHO. I accept the fact that I need to carry a large screen data device 50% of the time and a smaller personal communication device (phone) 100% of the time.
The phone could loose all the power robbing "smart" apps that are downright silly to edit on a 2 or even 3 inch, non touch screen. It should provide the data connection though, and the only smarts it needs is managing that connection among devices and providing viewers for the synced apps.

However, the data device must support all phones that are capable of this or the manufacturer at least should have an active interest in doing so.

If not, as I think Karel sort of said... Nokia would be looked upon as steering this open source device toward a vendor specific convergence...

That would be the kind of thinking I would expect out of Redmond; not from the company that sold me on this thing (N800).

I bought it for its potential and because it was Nokia, not an unheard of start-up, or a company that has already tried steering me down many a bumpy road.

[SD69]

I did not mean to imply that Nokia sees this as a way to tie the IT to their phones. What I meant is that they see PIMs as a business application to be implemented on a business oriented PDA/phone. They see the IT as in a different product category complementing the PDA/phone and not duplicating the functionality of it.

[Seb Per]

Hi, I hesitated a long time before getting myself a N800. The reasons why I hesitated are:
- no PIM
- no business suite (I d prefer a Open Office rather a MS Office)
- no gsm/3G direct connection
- no camera (less important)

So I am a perfect match.

Compare the N800 to a HTC or equivalent PDA phone (with the same screen size such as 9000 or just launched Advantage), they have all in one solution (plus I need 2 chargers when I travel if I have a phone AND the n800 :) )

BUT I CHOSE THE N800 because:

- it s the only one - because of Open Source OS- so far that may evolve to get at least all the sw and applications I mentioned and more.
- I can leave it at home and keep my phone when I don't want to carry it.

My humble - no techie- idea is that online (PIM and Business) applications could be developped. I d pay (lump or monthly) for that if professional level is reached.

Of course that requires full time 3G (and preferably 3.5G or HSDPA) coverage because Wi-Fi is so limited geographically.

By the way, as existing for wifi, no manufacturer has developped a 3G chip integrated to a mobile card? Would be perfect for IT if coupled to BT headset (w/ micro)

Cheers, Seb

[Karel Jansens]

I did not mean to imply that Nokia sees this as a way to tie the IT to their phones. What I meant is that they see PIMs as a business application to be implemented on a business oriented PDA/phone. They see the IT as in a different product category complementing the PDA/phone and not duplicating the functionality of it.

Sorry. One never knows if it isn't Nokia's CEO posting here. :rolleyes:

[mbrinkhues]

I actually don't carry a phone half the time since I don't need it and dislike the "always reachabel" concept of mobile phones. So the very cheap thing I use stays in the glove compartment. The N770 OTOH I do carry around a lot so I need a PIM there, not on my 1€ T-Mobile Phone.

[bac522]

With all the PIM software on sourceforge I'm surprised no one has ported any of it over. KDE PIM looks nice and runs on the Sharp Zaurus. http://sourceforge.net/search/?type_of_search=soft&words=PIM

[Seb Per]

I checked today online apps from Google. Seems to be a spreadsheet and text. I had tried the calendar (we use it at the office) but the browser gets confused : boxes and timeframes seem to overlap on the n800 screen. I can still manage it but not perfect.

If the same applies to spreadsheet and word processor, then not the solution.

Seb

[Karel Jansens]

With all the PIM software on sourceforge I'm surprised no one has ported any of it over. KDE PIM looks nice and runs on the Sharp Zaurus. http://sourceforge.net/search/?type_of_search=soft&words=PIM

At the very least you'd need to install a gazillion megabytes' worth of libraries -- provided it can be ported at all. And I'm carefully assuming hildonisation is not going to be easy either.

[Karel Jansens]

I checked today online apps from Google. Seems to be a spreadsheet and text. I had tried the calendar (we use it at the office) but the browser gets confused : boxes and timeframes seem to overlap on the n800 screen. I can still manage it but not perfect.

If the same applies to spreadsheet and word processor, then not the solution.

Seb

What exactly do you do with those Google apps (the precious few that work with the Internet Tablets' browsers, that is) when you find yourself out of internet reach? Can you even run them if there's no internet?

BTW: No, Google Docs and Spreadsheets don't even work with Opera.

[TA-t3]

This talk about using/utilizing the PIM on the phone is in stark contradiction to what was at one stage implied by Ari: The phone is just a link to the network. So it can be really simple. (Ref. e.g. the blog he posted last year about that lipstick phone as an ideal phone.) I mean, what's the point of buying a rather expensive gadget like the N800 (expensive compared to "normal" phones), if you _also_ has to buy a **!@ "smartphone" too? Just to get access to something that should have been part of the N800 in the first place?

I've said it before: The ideal phone for me is a simple, small, bluetooth-enabled low-cost phone with long battery life (so black-and-white LCD screen is fine), which can stay in the pocket all the time except if somebody calls me on it. And these kind of phones don't have useful PIM apps. And the "PIM" in mid-range phones like my k700i is rubbish. And in my opinion phones are not the best place for PIMs anyway, it's much better to be able to use and looking up stuff at your N800 in front of you while you hold the phone at the ear (and for the same reason it's not a good idea to use the N800 as a generic phone, so I've never agreed with those reviewers complaining about the fact that it isn't a phone).

Just today I found out that the built-in email application in the N800 won't even start if I'm not networked.. what's the point of having it at all then? I only configured it so I had some way of reading the mail archive off-line when I can't go online (because then I just log in to gmail or the office webmail instead). But it's useless now. There's no _need_ for a built-in email app. if it can't be used off-line. (Is there some setting somewhere that can fix this? I forgot my N800 at home so can't test more today.)

EDIT: Turns out the email app. had more severe problems, I had to reboot the N800 to get the email app working at all. After that it does start without being online, so I'll retract that. However it sure likes to try to go online a lot -- I've got the source now (well if it's the right one), so I'll try to hack it a little.

[fldude99]

If I may put in my 2c here: I run a small ofc and hence am tied to my phone almost 24/7. After recognizing the limitation of a mid price cell (I use the SE W810i-great cell device btw) I decided I needed some sort of PDA for times out of ofc..the Cingular 8525 (HTC Tytn) appeared to be an awesome device-which it definitely is. So I get it on Cingular's 30 day trial, and use it for a couple of wks..and it is definitely a great tool and useful for my needs..especially for using "real" internet access when away from the ofc. However, I finally realized that for the actual time I needed the extra features of the 8525-it just didn't justify having to carry (or lug) such a "beast" of a device. I much prefer the little W810i and what I need it for 90% of the time in my shirt or pants pocket. So I returned the 8525..bought a N800 and when I need the "extra" feature of using "real" internet..I just get online if I'm in a wireless environment..or tether to my cell if not. The N800 is limited in it's PIM, but I find using my W810i for calendar..remind me of tasks..and contacts is perfectly fine..and since it is with me all the time as opposed to the N800, I don't think I'd use a PIM function on the N800 anyway. Anybody else with similar experience? I think the N800 does what it does well and in my opinion a cellphone-even midrange priced ones-manage contacts and calendar functions in a satisfactory way.

[Karel Jansens]

This talk about using/utilizing the PIM on the phone is in stark contradiction to what was at one stage implied by Ari: The phone is just a link to the network. So it can be really simple. (Ref. e.g. the blog he posted last year about that lipstick phone as an ideal phone.) I mean, what's the point of buying a rather expensive gadget like the N800 (expensive compared to "normal" phones), if you _also_ has to buy a **!@ "smartphone" too? Just to get access to something that should have been part of the N800 in the first place?

I've said it before: The ideal phone for me is a simple, small, bluetooth-enabled low-cost phone with long battery life (so black-and-white LCD screen is fine), which can stay in the pocket all the time except if somebody calls me on it. And these kind of phones don't have useful PIM apps. And the "PIM" in mid-range phones like my k700i is rubbish. And in my opinion phones are not the best place for PIMs anyway, it's much better to be able to use and looking up stuff at your N800 in front of you while you hold the phone at the ear (and for the same reason it's not a good idea to use the N800 as a generic phone, so I've never agreed with those reviewers complaining about the fact that it isn't a phone).

I want this too. But only if I can have 3.5g for free. Or at most for the price I now pay for my ADSL access.

Until then -- and that scenario is a long way off, believe me -- I want to be able to do everything offline if I choose to.

[Karel Jansens]

If I may put in my 2c here: I run a small ofc and hence am tied to my phone almost 24/7. After recognizing the limitation of a mid price cell (I use the SE W810i-great cell device btw) I decided I needed some sort of PDA for times out of ofc..the Cingular 8525 (HTC Tytn) appeared to be an awesome device-which it definitely is. So I get it on Cingular's 30 day trial, and use it for a couple of wks..and it is definitely a great tool and useful for my needs..especially for using "real" internet access when away from the ofc. However, I finally realized that for the actual time I needed the extra features of the 8525-it just didn't justify having to carry (or lug) such a "beast" of a device. I much prefer the little W810i and what I need it for 90% of the time in my shirt or pants pocket. So I returned the 8525..bought a N800 and when I need the "extra" feature of using "real" internet..I just get online if I'm in a wireless environment..or tether to my cell if not. The N800 is limited in it's PIM, but I find using my W810i for calendar..remind me of tasks..and contacts is perfectly fine..and since it is with me all the time as opposed to the N800, I don't think I'd use a PIM function on the N800 anyway. Anybody else with similar experience? I think the N800 does what it does well and in my opinion a cellphone-even midrange priced ones-manage contacts and calendar functions in a satisfactory way.

I totally agree with the "the phone holds the PIM" philosophy, but we have this amazing computer (that's the Internet Tablet, for those who weren't paying attention) that is much more capable of maintaining the PIM on the hone, so why not make the phone's PIM a mostly for-consulting PIM and the N800/770 its base-station?

[TA-t3]

The calendar in my k700i doesn't seem to be able to set repeated calendar events, something I use all the time.. and GPE-Calendar for the N800 doesn't have a bi-weekly setting, so I can't use that one either.. in fact I'm still using my Palm T3 for all PIM stuff, I would prefer to use the N800 for this. 3 devices is 1 too many to drag, a small phone + 1 bigger is fine. But the T3 doesn't have a big enough display and has other network limitations, while a laptop is too big, the N800 is ideal but can't do what the T3 can do PIM-vise.. and then we're back to topic again. ;)

[Seb Per]

What exactly do you do with those Google apps (the precious few that work with the Internet Tablets' browsers, that is) when you find yourself out of internet reach? Can you even run them if there's no internet?

BTW: No, Google Docs and Spreadsheets don't even work with Opera.

That s exactly what I meant:
1) constant access to Internet is required - hence the need for a 3G phone
and/or
2) need to save a version locally (possible but with which sw to run on the IT) to manage then offline: dangerously confusing (where the hell was I: version 1.1.2.corrected_recorrected or 1.1.3_final_corrected? )

Thanks for confirming that Google Docs and Spreadsheets behave like Calendar with Opera.

One more deadend -so far- identified.

[sapporobaby]

Another issue to consider along with the basic features is that the N800 is seen by most as a geeky developer device. It will NEVER gain mainstream popularity until someone gets serious and develops a simple, easy to use installer, and applications for the common man. After reading this forum and browsing the Maemo, I have also come to this conclusion that this is not a device for everyone simply because of the subscriber base. Hardly anything written is understandable by anyone other than developers or the somewhat closed community that surrounds the Internet Tablet platform.

I am considering simply putting my N800 on eBay and going back to a normal device where the forums are populated by less snobbish people and those who do not have a problem communicating to non-developers.

[Seb Per]

If I may put in my 2c here: I run a small ofc and hence am tied to my phone almost 24/7. After recognizing the limitation of a mid price cell (I use the SE W810i-great cell device btw) I decided I needed some sort of PDA for times out of ofc..the Cingular 8525 (HTC Tytn) appeared to be an awesome device-which it definitely is. So I get it on Cingular's 30 day trial, and use it for a couple of wks..and it is definitely a great tool and useful for my needs..especially for using "real" internet access when away from the ofc. However, I finally realized that for the actual time I needed the extra features of the 8525-it just didn't justify having to carry (or lug) such a "beast" of a device. I much prefer the little W810i and what I need it for 90% of the time in my shirt or pants pocket. So I returned the 8525..bought a N800 and when I need the "extra" feature of using "real" internet..I just get online if I'm in a wireless environment..or tether to my cell if not. The N800 is limited in it's PIM, but I find using my W810i for calendar..remind me of tasks..and contacts is perfectly fine..and since it is with me all the time as opposed to the N800, I don't think I'd use a PIM function on the N800 anyway. Anybody else with similar experience? I think the N800 does what it does well and in my opinion a cellphone-even midrange priced ones-manage contacts and calendar functions in a satisfactory way.

I have exactly the same experience. That's why I ll get the n95 when it s out because I ll get a small phone 3.5G + 5 Mpx cam with autofocus, the PIM. and HOPEFULLY the n800 and the n95 share the same charger... or I ll have to buy a heavy multicharger (not even sure it ll work).

the other solution for you would have been to have two sim cards for the same number (possible here in Finland, elsewhere I don't know) : one in your small phone one in your Tytn. But still have to update PIMs in both :(

Cheers, Seb

[Seb Per]

Another issue to consider along with the basic features is that the N800 is seen by most as a geeky developer device. It will NEVER gain mainstream popularity until someone gets serious and develops a simple, easy to use installer, and applications for the common man. After reading this forum and browsing the Maemo, I have also come to this conclusion that this is not a device for everyone simply because of the subscriber base. Hardly anything written is understandable by anyone other than developers or the somewhat closed community that surrounds the Internet Tablet platform.

I am considering simply putting my N800 on eBay and going back to a normal device where the forums are populated by less snobbish people and those who do not have a problem communicating to non-developers.

hum... as a non-developper I agree that this forum gets sometimes difficult for me to follow (snobbish definitely not!) but there are other forums (or fora?) / support pages focusing on the n800 with more "user friendly" approach. Nokia has one.

S

[TA-t3]

@sapporobaby:
Searching around Maemo may definitely be a bit cumbersome for "mainstream" users, but I can't see where the problem with the built-in installer is? The package manager has a few simple options, where one will update what's installed and another will list all packages available that could be installed. Not that big a list either, unless you have added a lot of repositories manually. In fact I think this is the simplest by far installer I've seen on any portable device -- it's usually much more work to get something installed on your general PDA or smartphone.

[Seb Per]

I want this too. But only if I can have 3.5g for free. Or at most for the price I now pay for my ADSL access.

Until then -- and that scenario is a long way off, believe me -- I want to be able to do everything offline if I choose to.

unless a major operator propose a solution enabling connecting to internet through any wifi cell respecting cost and privacy, constant access is 3G, 3.5G and Edge. Digital Radio is coming here, maybe that will also propose internet (like powerline here) N800 with its FM tuner (should it be digital) could then also connect.

You will get 3.5G for peanuts (starts to be cheap here) but I see a trouble on the horizon: when everyone will use VOIP coupled to WIFI (cheap or free), operators will have to increase subscription monthly fees like crazy. And don't count on the small operators because they re using the networks of the major ones.
Wimax can save (because it will introduce new competitors on the access to network) but we ll have to get a IT wimax at that time.

to do everything offline (if one choose to, which is I believe the best) one need apps offline. not on the IT ...yet.

[sapporobaby]

Maybe snobbish was a bit strong, but sure it is like a clique of developers. This could be a great device but in many ways the community tends to turn people off. As an example, I had a few friends, one has the N800, and my wife, a Finn, try to go through the forum and see if they could find helpful hints. After just a few mins, they got frustrated and said that there is no way they would even bother to search for help here. This is not good as they are mainstream users, not techie types that only want a device that works. I am an engineer, not developer and feel that this forum is for sure slanted at developers and the users are sometimes left to fend for ourselves. For this device to take off, it has to appeal to the man in the street, not a closed group of users.

My $.02.

[Texrat]

I think it's in Nokia's best interest to at least lead a PIM development effort. The "it's just an internet tablet" protest evaporated rapidly when the FM radio was acknowledged.

[SD69]

I think it's in Nokia's best interest to at least lead a PIM development effort. The "it's just an internet tablet" protest evaporated rapidly when the FM radio was acknowledged.Well, is there any reason to believe that Nokia will? It's been almost 18 months and even the email app is under-developed to be kind. They are pursuing the Skype/Rhapsody kind of apps.

[Seb Per]

Maybe snobbish was a bit strong, but sure it is like a clique of developers. This could be a great device but in many ways the community tends to turn people off. As an example, I had a few friends, one has the N800, and my wife, a Finn, try to go through the forum and see if they could find helpful hints. After just a few mins, they got frustrated and said that there is no way they would even bother to search for help here. This is not good as they are mainstream users, not techie types that only want a device that works. I am an engineer, not developer and feel that this forum is for sure slanted at developers and the users are sometimes left to fend for ourselves. For this device to take off, it has to appeal to the man in the street, not a closed group of users.

My $.02.
I agree w/ you on the 'mainstream' approach but maybe nokia doesnt want it to kill all the E series -running on symbian, owned by nokia-. i agree the extraordInary form factor and screen o the n800 make it the ideal candidate for a blockbuster if the PIM and apps mentioned in this thread emerge...

but again, the n800 support pages are quite mainstream (i use it a lot). my gut feeling is that this site applies to the ones who want to take the n800 a few steps further.

Seb

[Astropin]

I have held onto my aging Sony Clie NX70 for about 4 years because I haven't found anything better. It syncs perfectly with my Mac, has a bigger screen than a treo, a keyboard, a camera, and a long battery life. Pocket PC devices abound, but require 1 to 3 steps more to do almost operation than is required under Palm OS.

Aloha,
-Jeff Mings

That's funny.....I still use a Sony Clie NR70V (now 5 years old) because I can't find a better PDA for my needs. Even when this one dies I will probably go to ebay to get another Clie. Unfortunately I still read on my Clie as well.....I would much rather read on the N800 but the only stuff I can find is Old classics or stuff I have never heard of. Sorry but I like popular Sci-Fi and other current novels.

[fldude99]

I have exactly the same experience. That's why I ll get the n95 when it s out because I ll get a small phone 3.5G + 5 Mpx cam with autofocus, the PIM. and HOPEFULLY the n800 and the n95 share the same charger... or I ll have to buy a heavy multicharger (not even sure it ll work).

the other solution for you would have been to have two sim cards for the same number (possible here in Finland, elsewhere I don't know) : one in your small phone one in your Tytn. But still have to update PIMs in both :(

Cheers, Seb

As far as I know we cannot have 2 sims with the same number here in the US..at least not with Cingular..anybody know anything to the contrary?

[sapporobaby]

I disagree here. Without some sort of phone, the N800 is dead weight. Sure it has wifi, but this not always handy. I have the N800 and a E61. Combined, I can reach the net all the time from virtually anywhere. I am not sure of the biz strategy of Nokia regarding the N800. It seems like an unfinished device. More of a, "you do it, no you do it, no you do it" device.

[Seb Per]

Well, is there any reason to believe that Nokia will? It's been almost 18 months and even the email app is under-developed to be kind. They are pursuing the Skype/Rhapsody kind of apps.

a few remarks from a point of view close to nokia labs.
- nokia ships 1 million mobile phones a day, of which 30 000 smartphones. its peanuts to launch a new range of device to test a market segment. pre-market devices seem to be a common feature in the labs. furthermore there is internal competition.
- the n800 existence seems to show confidence after the 770
- the n in n800 would indicate convergence toward smartphones.

this makes me think that pim and business apps are not far away.

[mconnick]

PIMonline, a free Web-based service, seems to work fine on the N800. Check it out at:

http://www.pimonline.com/

Michael

[Seb Per]

I disagree here. Without some sort of phone, the N800 is dead weight. Sure it has wifi, but this not always handy. I have the N800 and a E61. Combined, I can reach the net all the time from virtually anywhere. I am not sure of the biz strategy of Nokia regarding the N800. It seems like an unfinished device. More of a, "you do it, no you do it, no you do it" device.

totally agree on the 770 but see how the n800 is an improvement in design. i d say the marketing guys in nokia have identified a real market and joined the development team. soon they will demand necessary improvements.

[Seb Per]

What exactly do you do with those Google apps (the precious few that work with the Internet Tablets' browsers, that is) when you find yourself out of internet reach? Can you even run them if there's no internet?

BTW: No, Google Docs and Spreadsheets don't even work with Opera.

have you tried zoho spreadsheets? i just opened their test file and surprise i can open it w/ opera...
they also have word processor and powerpoint. i ll check further...

f....k! feeding data freezes the page. forget it

[sapporobaby]

@Seb Per,

Where are you in Finland? I am in Helsinki. Hermannie to be exact. Are you near by?

[keitai]

If the community cannot create even decent a PIM application without spoon feeding from Nokia, I don't think the device has much chances of success.

Remember, it's a programmable, not a locked device. If people do not use the freedoms given by Free software, such as Linux and Maemo, our future is full of iPhone-like locked devices with manufacturer-created selected features.

[sapporobaby]

Darn good post Keitai.

You hit the nail on the head. Some of these developers need to get serious and develop an application that all could use. Not these hodge-podge applications that only the developing crowd can deal with. The Linux/Open Source crowd are generally viewed as being mavericks and anti-establishment which might in some ways be the reason for lack of a good PIM. PIM's denote calendars, schedules, contacts, biz, etc..... and in some ways this can fly in the face of a developer that "refuses" to give in.

Just my $.02

[Karel Jansens]

That's funny.....I still use a Sony Clie NR70V (now 5 years old) because I can't find a better PDA for my needs. Even when this one dies I will probably go to ebay to get another Clie. Unfortunately I still read on my Clie as well.....I would much rather read on the N800 but the only stuff I can find is Old classics or stuff I have never heard of. Sorry but I like popular Sci-Fi and other current novels.

I have heard (only heard, mind you!) that one might be able to find popular works of science&fiction on those new-fangled P2P networks.

And while this might at first sight sound (and be!) highly illegal, it seems to me that, if one were to already own such works in their paper editon, one could not have significant moral objections to suck in their electronic equivalents.

Of course, the moral strength required to limit oneself to only those works one has already procured legally, could very well prove to be just too high...

[YoDude]

If the community cannot create even decent a PIM application without spoon feeding from Nokia, I don't think the device has much chances of success.

Remember, it's a programmable, not a locked device. If people do not use the freedoms given by Free software, such as Linux and Maemo, our future is full of iPhone-like locked devices with manufacturer-created selected features.

Not spoon fed but how about a browser that can read and edit web apps. That would be a start.
Full access to the DUN routine is also needed.

I guess what I'm saying is there are not many proof of concept apps produced by Nokia...


They say it connects to cell phones over BT... not my phone.

They say it browses the internet... Not any of the web apps I can use.

They say it plays video... not well in any native format that I have.

These things will come, I know but other than code snippets out of Maemo Org... Not a lot you can work with without investing a lot of time and effort relearning syntax that some haven't had a need to use for over 15 years. Not a problem, but it takes time.

I have learned a lot about cell phones over the years. I can access contact and datebook info from proprietary code from most of the manufacturers. This info can be manipulated and saved to another computer in a variety of ways...

I cant do 'ish with the N800 if it won't let me connect.


http://files.myopera.com/yodude/blog/contact%20details.jpg


J2ME proof of concept >> http://my.opera.com/yodude/blog/2006/11/25/new-contact-management-j2me-in-beta


Don't spoon feed me but, how about a little meat with all them potato's?

[tableteer]

PIMonline, a free Web-based service, seems to work fine on the N800. Check it out at:

http://www.pimonline.com/

MMMichael
I took a look at pimonline and it does work, but most PIM users already have a bunch of PIM data that would take a while to re-enter into pimonline since it does not appear to have a data import function. So it would not be my first choice.

While While I am new to the IT user base, I would dare to say that many of us, IT user base,
are carrying a bluetooth enabled smartphone. If we could develop the ability to
browse/sync the phone's pim database, we may have a good solution for users
described above.
While this an Internet tablet, it was designed to interface face with other devices like mobile phones. So why not expand that connection.
Thanks,
~DP

[Seb Per]

@Seb Per,

Where are you in Finland? I am in Helsinki. Hermannie to be exact. Are you near by?

I am near Hermanni, sure, since I'm in Sörnäinen.

[mbrinkhues]

Three main problems with Online PIM etc:

+ I am not always online. I can't be due to the network coverage in some cases where I do need to mark down dates etc

+ Online means my data resides on a server outside my control and travells over a net outside my control. Okay for mails etc. but not for contacts and dates

+ OUTLOOK or NOTES. Any application that can't Sync with those two standard systems is useless for many PDA users since they want/must use those systems as the prime date/contact storage system. And exporting VCards and manually importing them is not Sync. We are not talking software guys or even intersted fans, we are talking end users here.

[TA-t3]

Outlook is always mentioned, but it should be said though that Outlook itself is horrible when it comes to synching contacts. Outlook can't import vcards properly, it can only import one contact at the time. This is totally useless for corporate users, and Outlook 2007 still hasn't fixed this. Outlook shouldn't be considered the measure stick by far.

[Seb Per]

Outlook is always mentioned, but it should be said though that Outlook itself is horrible when it comes to synching contacts. Outlook can't import vcards properly, it can only import one contact at the time. This is totally useless for corporate users, and Outlook 2007 still hasn't fixed this. Outlook shouldn't be considered the measure stick by far.

I just met with some one in N series. PIM Sync is something they seem to work on for the N800. No garantees, it was just a hint ... But confirmation that this can't be the priority compared to the tsunami of "regular" phones and n phones shipped by Nokia.

[mbrinkhues]

Outlook is always mentioned, but it should be said though that Outlook itself is horrible when it comes to synching contacts. Outlook can't import vcards properly, it can only import one contact at the time. This is totally useless for corporate users, and Outlook 2007 still hasn't fixed this. Outlook shouldn't be considered the measure stick by far.

And yet, between them Outlook and Notes have 80+ percent of the market in date planning/contact apps. Sure, Outlook can't do VCards very well but most WinCE PDA's don't use VCards for Sync. And unless the N800 can replace a WinCE PDA, it will remain a rather small market segment and risks loosing customers to the new large screen WinCE PDA like the Sharp unit.

A lot of people don't care about "It's a Unix" or "It follows official standards" stuff. That includes software engineers like me. The metering stick is "It works in my Windows-Based company net/infrastructure". The thing is a tool, not the center of my life. If it can't do the job, I won't buy it/use it.

OTHO I am willing to back a resonable sum for a working USB-Sync between an On-Unit, Offline-capabel PIM and my desktop system that does not involv any external service centers/computers or Web-Servers. Actually I think that commercial software is the ONLY chance to get such a solution, not putting much faith in OSS interacting with commercial standards.

[TA-t3]

The WinCE PDAs don't use VCards for sync because they use Outlook, which is severely handicapped in this area. However, lots of mobile phones support vcard files out of the box, with two exceptions that I've seen: Windows smartphones, and Nokia phones (at least all Nokia phones I've tried, NB: non-smartphones. Symbian seems to work, although I've not tested Nokia versions).
At work I can download the company contacts list (with email, name, address, two or three phone numbers for each employee) to a Palm PDA, and then just bluetooth it to anyone as and when I get near them. This way it's easy to maintain the contacts on everybodys phones (we only use mobile phones here). Well, except for those unlucky individuals with the abovementioned phones. They tend to be without any contacts on their phones as it's just too much work to send the contacts one by one (which works but takes forever).
If you google (sorry, if you use the FWSE*-- G. don't like their name to be used that way) for outlook+vcard you'll see that this has been a complaint on Outlook for a very long time.

Should a software tool support VCard? Well, should it support a standardized method of interchanging contacts? In my opinion "yes", although I would be interested to know if there are other equally standardized methods around (I'm not aware of any but willing to be educated).

(Actually, Outlook does support VCards -- it's just that it supports only a single VCard entry at the time, which is why I call it useless in the corporate environment. MS implemented it for users with not very many contacts to deal with.)

--
* FWSE: Famous Web Search Engine

[sapporobaby]

I am near Hermanni, sure, since I'm in Sörnäinen.

Send me a PM. I am on the way to Verrkokauppa now. Need a printer that can connect to my new AirPort Extreme base station. :)

[Texrat]

I disagree here. Without some sort of phone, the N800 is dead weight. Sure it has wifi, but this not always handy. I have the N800 and a E61. Combined, I can reach the net all the time from virtually anywhere. I am not sure of the biz strategy of Nokia regarding the N800. It seems like an unfinished device. More of a, "you do it, no you do it, no you do it" device.

I have a hair to split: how do you define phone? For instance, there's more than one way to skin a cat--

http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,2089611,00.asp (VERY interesting!)

http://www.wirelessnetworkproducts.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1115

http://www.cisco.com/en/US/products/ps6718/prod_brochure0900aecd80352c7e.html

http://rfdesign.com/next_generation_wireless/router_bring_wifi/

http://www.tombridge.com/rta/2005/09/how_to_create_a.html

Just a handful of examples demonstrating that there are numerous ways to get at wifi, both sedentary and mobile.

[zinoff]

An application to display iCal files would be already something.

Having synchronized contacts would be nice (easy import from VCARDs could do).

Having a unified inbox for SMS and email would rock (I used to have that on my treo (and on an older palm model before then))

Just thoughts

[bobhodgen]

I have been a palm/treo user for over 4 years, and can count on the fingers of one hand the times I've opened the calendar app.
I need a device to 1) browse the web in a legible usable manner 2) connect to email 3) do instant messaging and 4) Skype. It needs to be portable and have a good chance of connecting to wifi while i travel.
Right now the N800 looks pretty good for what I need.

[Seb Per]

Send me a PM. I am on the way to Verrkokauppa now. Need a printer that can connect to my new AirPort Extreme base station. :)

Sorry your settings do not allow PM... enjoy verkkokauppa, I go there at least twice a week.

S

[fldude99]

I have been a palm/treo user for over 4 years, and can count on the fingers of one hand the times I've opened the calendar app.
I need a device to 1) browse the web in a legible usable manner 2) connect to email 3) do instant messaging and 4) Skype. It needs to be portable and have a good chance of connecting to wifi while i travel.
Right now the N800 looks pretty good for what I need.

1, 2 are ok on the N800...3 is non existent and 4: If you believe Skype will ever be available on the N800..I have a bridge I need to sell

[SD69]

I just met with some one in N series. PIM Sync is something they seem to work on for the N800. No garantees, it was just a hint ... But confirmation that this can't be the priority compared to the tsunami of "regular" phones and n phones shipped by Nokia.They may, and I mean "may", do a BT sync to the PIM and other info on an Symbian device. They will not do a PIM application on the N800 this year. btw, most of the PIM work is being done in ES, not the N series.

[Texrat]

.3 is non existent and 4: If you believe Skype will ever be available on the N800..I have a bridge I need to sell

Your response to number 3 is absolutely incorrect. I successfully use GAIM for IM on a regular basis on the 770 and N800.

And please explain the rationale behind your Skype skepticism. Personally I have few reasons to doubt it will happen.

[Karel Jansens]

They may, and I mean "may", do a BT sync to the PIM and other info on an Symbian device. They will not do a PIM application on the N800 this year. btw, most of the PIM work is being done in ES, not the N series.

IIRC, GPE has a synching tool for vcard, etc... but (and again: IIRC) it's not for Bluetooth connections. If this could be made to work, it would be rather easy to synch the N800 with standards-compliant (that is: non-Microsoft!) phone PIMs.

Right?

[Astropin]

Your response to number 3 is absolutely incorrect. I successfully use GAIM for IM on a regular basis on the 770 and N800.

And please explain the rationale behind your Skype skepticism. Personally I have few reasons to doubt it will happen.

Ditto, GAIM works perfectly on my N800. Skype might be late but it will get here.

[fldude99]

Maybe i misunderstood..yes of course you can use gaim for instant msgs..i was thinking he was looking at text messaging...regarding the skype..it is only my opinion from what i have seen in the past regarding rolling out applications for the USA from Nokia..the US market is really a red headed stepchild for them-Europe and Asia is where they make their dough

[Texrat]

I agree with your last assessment... as things stand now. I personally believe Nokia is giving necessary lip-service to the current US market while effectively retreating from conventional phones and laying the crucial ground for the wifi/wimax future. That future has to include Skype.

[bergie]

However, for most professionals to adopt the N800, it is crucial that they be able to sync their contacts, calendars, and possibly other data.


From my point of view, at least the Dates application looks like a simple and clean calendar UI for Maemo... just what I need.

Of course, synchronization would be very useful. Instead of tying this to whatever calendaring servers, I'd try to find and port a SyncML client that is compatible with e-d-s.

In any case, PIM data on Maemo should be stored in the evolution-data-server and accessed via DBUS to provide centralized storage that can be used by any application that needs to deal with PIM data.

[mconnick]

IIRC, GPE has a synching tool for vcard, etc... but (and again: IIRC) it's not for Bluetooth connections. If this could be made to work, it would be rather easy to synch the N800 with standards-compliant (that is: non-Microsoft!) phone PIMs.

Right?

GPE Calendar also allows importing of iCal entries.

I've actually started to play around with using GPE Calendar and To Do and they aren't bad programs. I've imported my Outlook appointments into Calendar using the Windows vSync program and have started using both GPE programs as my primary PIM. They are really both completely adequate for my own particular PIM needs.

Michael

[DrNShaw]

I have to agree completly with Jeff Mings. I also carry a cell phone as well as a Palm. When my Palm died (I have a backup) I bought the N800.

The GPE-PIM is far too immature to be a replacement (although I use the contacts and todo) and one PIM for the 770 (commercial) actually wants users to pay to sync their data and that's not going to happen.

Yes, I would pay for a good PIM. I won't pay for a PIM if I have to pay to sync my data. I've posted my thoughts on the GPE PIM on the users board so won't repeat them here. I've also opened up bug/feature reports in Bugzilla.

I wrote to several companies who provide utilities I use to try and get them to port some of their apps over to Maemo. So far there hasn't been any takers. I believe though that if more applications for business users become available (shareware or otherwise) then some of these may be ported.

I don't expect Nokia to provide a robust set of utilities. I do, however, expect Nokia to provide better than what they have, e.g. the contact doesn't have an address capability, etc. If they want the N800 to be more than a cool niche device, they should include at least rudimentary capabilities such as a calendar, contacts, and todo.
Regards,

Nick.

[Texrat]

Wholly agreed with Nick above. Contacts should be contacts should be contacts, ie, ubiquitous across your range of computing/communications devices and able to sync freely with little hassle. So what if the N800 is an "internet device"? Doesn't that mean email? Instant messaging? Of course it does, and I want the email/IM addresses of every contact I have to be fully transportable and highly available. Phone, laptop, tablet, whatever. IMO this is a HUGE shortcoming in the tablets and I'm surprised it's even in question.

[dbec10]

I am in support of the IT having PIM apps on it. And if you are really honest and realistic you'd agree as well.

If you work in a metropolitan area then you don't have to worry about having WIFI access. However the majority of potential owners of the IT will not have that luxury.

Nokia claims to have designed it as an internet tablet. For use on the internet, using always on WIFI or cell phone GPRS etc. If that were so why then include video playback, audio, FM radio and all the other things it can do, which have nothing to do with the internet. Why have 2 SD card slots. It can't be so we can view large html pages. :)

PIM apps are a logical extension of the device and to not include them would be a great mistake. I have a Palm and the only reason I do not have a n800 is price, it's instability and the lack of PIM apps.

I mention instability, because like most of you I don't plan on using only what nokia provided and the other programs (some of them mentioned on this forum) can cause problems.

If Nokia wrote the PIM chances are it would be stable and the price would be justified. Right now, for $400. I get to play with an internet "under development" tablet.

[andymulhearn]

I am in support of the IT having PIM apps on it. And if you are really honest and realistic you'd agree as well.

I remain unconvinced. Which is something of a change because for some time I was adamant I wanted PIM Functionality. But that's on my phone so now I'm not so sure.

If you work in a metropolitan area then you don't have to worry about having WIFI access. However the majority of potential owners of the IT will not have that luxury.

I work in Canary Wharf and don't have wifi access unless I leave my office and go to one of the malls. So it's not just those in the sticks that don't have access.

Nokia claims to have designed it as an internet tablet. For use on the internet, using always on WIFI or cell phone GPRS etc. If that were so why then include video playback, audio, FM radio and all the other things it can do, which have nothing to do with the internet. Why have 2 SD card slots. It can't be so we can view large html pages. :)


That's a good question. All of that functionality is usable standalone so it's not really in the "internet tablet" mould. Perhaps it's just that the apps are relatively common and easy to implement under maemo. Nothing more or less.

Though to be fair, if you take away music and video, then you need hardly more space than is available out of the box with no cards. Unless you're using at as a big mobile file store.

PIM apps are a logical extension of the device and to not include them would be a great mistake. I have a Palm and the only reason I do not have a n800 is price, it's instability and the lack of PIM apps.

To be fair, Palms came out of the diary/address book world and grew other functionality some of which (browsing) they will never do as well as the N770 or N800. So while contacts/address is their strength, it's about all they can do well out of the box.

I mention instability, because like most of you I don't plan on using only what nokia provided and the other programs (some of them mentioned on this forum) can cause problems.
I've had my N800 for about a month now and it's crashed on me once. I use Opera, FBReader, xterm, media player and have Python, Dates and Contacts installed.

I think you're right, some software affects stability but as a rule, the N800 is FAR more stable than the 770 was. In my experience.

If Nokia wrote the PIM chances are it would be stable and the price would be justified. Right now, for $400. I get to play with an internet "under development" tablet.

Err, I believe Nokia wrote the email client (my favourite bugbear) so I wouldn't be sure that a PIM they provide will automatically be better.

If anything, I think the guys at Open Hand are showing the most promise. GPE is too clunky for me, Dates and Contacts for what I've done with them are very nice products and I hope they evolve down their current routes rather than big and ugly. If they can build a simple connection that works reliably with iCal/google then I'm OK with that and would use it. I'm just not crying in my beer because I haven't got it any more.

[sapporobaby]

1, 2 are ok on the N800...3 is non existent and 4: If you believe Skype will ever be available on the N800..I have a bridge I need to sell



Get your bridge out. Nokia and Skype are working on an app as we speak.

[lbattraw]

For those interested in a better email client, a fellow from Nokia posted news of a new (in development) email client. The screen shots look nice enough, and hopefully with time it'll be good enough to release to the masses. No installable packages yet as it's still being worked on, but here's the page if you want to see the pretty pictures :) http://modest.garage.maemo.org/

Larry

[zippy]

This is good news.