Cell Phone and Service

[Lord Bodak]

Let's talk about US cellular phones and services that work with the 770.

Cingular told me via e-mail today that they do not support bluetooth for devices. Others have told me it works. I think they're unsure of their own services, and that scares me.

So what providers have deals? Unlimited data would be nice, no charges for data when roaming would also be nice... Sprint's website is virtually useless, as is Cingular's. T-Mobile isn't much better. Verizon... no GSM?

It's all confusing! So what do people have that actually works?

[GLeoni]

I understand that Cingular has a special plan that is geared towards pda type devices (rather than laptops). Cingular doesn't like to push this plan. I know as a Sprint customer, you are totally screwed if you use the 770. Sprint offers a data only plan, however, it is geared for very little usage. I feel that as the 770 and others (OQO, etc.) become more main stream, hopefully providers will offer more creative solutions. For now, providers are pushing their faster networks (EV-DO) and their smart phones such as the PPC-6700. The rumors are that OQO is working on a device that has a cell card built in...if this is the case, they are working with a provider or 2 who will offer an unlimited data only plan.(6-9 months out)

[Jeffgrado]

I have a Treo 650 on Sprint. The new firmware includeds dial up networking, which works great with my Palm TX. Do you think the 770 would be able to also use this, even though it is geared for GSM? The TX actually makes no mention of CDMA support, only GSM, but does work.

[Remote User]

Here's Texas Instruments' summary of what the OMAP 1710 in the 770 is:
The OMAP processor is a single-chip applications processor that supports all cellular standards and complements any modem or chipset and any air interface. It is intended for high-volume wireless handset manufacturers. The 770's OMAP1710 is designed to handle a variety of application tasks in parallel. Users enjoy several features and services concurrently. This unique multi-engine approach ensures an active multimedia application will not be interrupted or degraded when a separate application, such as an operating system control task, is launched or running simultaneously. The processor enables application developers and cell phone designers to reuse and build upon existing software.

I believe that a later model of the 770 will feature the OMAP 2420. The OMAP2420 includes the benefits of the OMAP 2 architecture’s parallel processing, giving users the ability to instantly run applications and operate multiple functions simultaneously without quality of service compromises. The OMAP2420 includes an integrated ARM1136 processor (330 MHz), a TI TMS320C55x™DSP (220 MHz), 2D/3D graphics accelerator, imaging and video accelerator, high-performance system interconnects and industry-standard peripherals.

Nokia is on record that new firmware for the 770, due early in 2006, will enable it for VOIP. I won't be surprised to see GPS. That's the kind of stuff the TI chip in it is designed to do. Still, I care about the apps - remote access to apps, that is. And I care about getting my hands on one of these, ASAP. I'm used to waiting for game consoles for years, though, and the wait for the 770 doesn't dissuade me in the least.

[bradb]

I don't have a 770, but I've been using bluetooth with T-Mobile (GPRS) now for several years (they've got unlimited data for $19.99) on a variety of hardware.

In my area, the only real options I'd consider are Cingular or T-Mobile; and Cingular is supposed to offer higher-speed data (though T-Mobile has something in the works).

The only problem I've had is the speed - it's low-end dialup at best. Though I once did a webcam chat to Switzerland from a dive bar ;-)

I think the 770 will be a great display device for my Motorola v3.

Brad.

[Lord Bodak]

After a bit more digging, Sprint's PCS Vision terms say that no networked devices are allowed.

T-Mobile seems to have it (T-Mobile Internet is the feature name apparently), but T-Mobile still doesn't have a great network, and they're the last of the big providers that charges domestic roaming. That's a bad combination in my book.

Cingular tells me that Media Net is the right answer from them for connecting a laptop to the internet. $19.99/month unlimited on top of the voice service. They told me they "don't support bluetooth" but it'll work with a data cable. I see no reason why it wouldn't work with bluetooth also, the configuration is the same once the devices are paired, right?

[waddell]

After a bit more digging, Sprint's PCS Vision terms say that no networked devices are allowed.

T-Mobile seems to have it (T-Mobile Internet is the feature name apparently), but T-Mobile still doesn't have a great network, and they're the last of the big providers that charges domestic roaming. That's a bad combination in my book.

Cingular tells me that Media Net is the right answer from them for connecting a laptop to the internet. $19.99/month unlimited on top of the voice service. They told me they "don't support bluetooth" but it'll work with a data cable. I see no reason why it wouldn't work with bluetooth also, the configuration is the same once the devices are paired, right?


sprint recently changed their policies about tethering, i.e. using a phone as a modem via a cable or bluetooth. You do have to pay for you use - you can't just get unlimited data while tethering using a low cost vision plan. Instead, you need an actual data plan. Of course, this changes every other week. :rolleyes: They are rolling out EVDO just about everywhere, but I think that their only bluetooth evdo devices at present are pda sized, with pda price tags, and I'm not sure if you can tether.

T-mobile is the low price leader [25 or 30 USD/month tethered or untethered]. They are rolling out EDGE/EGPRS, which isn't too bad, but their coverage area is pretty much limited to cities. They have lots of bluetooth capable phones too.

cingular has edge, and is rolling out UMTS/HSPDA in some areas. It is much more expensive than t-mobile with the unlimited data plan costing 79$ a month, but there are some cheaper plans available too. Cingular has several bluetooth phones. The original post in this thread stated that cingular doesn't support bluetooth tethering. This is certainly true of the low cost plans designed to just add data to a phone or pda. You need to talk to the data group which is geared more toward business users, and yes, pay for the "privilege". I set my account up under AT&T, so you may have some trouble convincing them to set up a "laptop connect" data plan onto a voice account, but I have a friend who did it with cingular just a few months ago. It does require that the CSR you deal with have a clue.

Verizon removes most of the data tethering features from all their phones so for a bluetooth modem, verizon is not a good provider, unless you want to hack your phone to put the features back in.

One thing you may want to keep in mind is that the network speed isn't as much of an issue if your phone only supports BT 1.1. I have several BT phones, and all of them except for my UMTS motorola A845 only seem to support 115200bps as max connect speed
when acting as a modem - I think this is a limitation of the BT 1.1 DUN profile. A BT 1.2 phone should work a lot better, should you be able to get one. I higher speed network wont do you much good if your limited to 115200bps for the BT connection.

Depending on where I am, I use either a moto A845 or a nokia 6230 with cingular. Both phones work fine to my palm lifedrive, a BT 1.1. device. I have the unlimited plan, which only makes sense since I need it for business. If you plan to use a lot of cellular data, and money is an issue, edge from t-mobile is probably your best bet. Otherwise, pick the cingular dataplan that best suits you. I plan to upgrade to the nokia N80 once it comes out next year. SInce the N80 has some series 60 PIM functionality, I think it will make a fine complement to the 770. [should I ever get mine]

howardfourms.com and pcsintel.com have tons more info should anyone care to look into this further.

This whole subject makes my head hurt. This is way more complicated than it should be for nov 2005.

[Lord Bodak]

But Cingular tells me that if I have a data cable, I can use my laptop unlimited with a Media Net subscription ($19.99/month). I see no reason why bluetooth would work differently.

But the Media Net terms specifically say no tethering, which I asked about in a follow-up e-mail. No response yet.

[waddell]

I don't work for cingular, so I can't say for sure, but I think your reading of the media net terms and conditions are actually correct. You should really check out howardforums - they deal with these kinds of topics in much more depth. If you call customer service and can get through to the data group, they can give you real answers.

I think that it's likely that new consumer friendly data plans will be coming out next year, but that is just speculation on my part.

[Lord Bodak]

After a bit of reading over at HowardForums, it seems they're both correct. Media Net works, but it violates the TOS. So far, Cingular isn't billing people for their usage, but they are within their rights to since the terms specifically state that it is not intended for tethering.

Apparently there is a more expensive data plan that is truly intended for tethering, that runs around $80/month. Too rich for my blood.

Hopefully next year the providers will start realizing that they need to simplify things and will roll out some reasonable data plans. T-Mobile already has, let's just hope the others follow.

[Jeffgrado]

I've been using my Sprint PCS Vision account over bluetooth dial up networking from a Palm TX without getting charged extra. But then, I am not using that much data. Apparently, Sprint doesn't know if you are using BT DUN or not, their system can't tell, it only knows the raw amount of data you use. So if you are using a ton of data, they'll probably suspect something and send you a nasty letter. Now, the new EVDO network knows wheter you are using DUN, so that will be interesting to see what happens. Hopefully the 770 will work over the CDMA network!

[Lord Bodak]

Sprint's terms specifically say:
Sprint PCS Vision Packs are not avai'l: (1) with any other device used in connection with a computer or PDA - including phones, smart phones or other devices used with connection kits or similar phone-to-computer/PDA accessories; and (2) with Bluetooth Vision capable PCS Phones used as a modem in connection with other devices. Sprint reserves the right to deny or to terminate service without notice for any misuse.

Same as Cingular. You might be doing it now, and they might be letting it go, but they can stop you from doing so at any time.

[GLeoni]

Sprint charged me for using my phone as a modem ($ 400) for a weekends
worth of time. I took Sprint to Small Claims Court and Won.
Very risky and lucky that I had a judge on my side. Sprint sucks and will
not terminate your service. They will just charge you for data minutes,
which I believe was +/- .40/minute....this court case goes back about a year.

[Jeffgrado]

GLeoni, how were you using your phone as a modem? Were you dailing into a modem?

[GLeoni]

I attached a device ( http://www.brookstone.com/shop/product.asp?product_code=475350&search_type=search&search_words=blue%20tooth&prodtemp=t1&cm_re=Result*R2C1*T ) to my sprint phone making it bt enabled. My bt pda was able to connect to the phone via this device.

[Jeffgrado]

Were you dialing #777? And if so, was it a heavy data usage, ie, more than about 10 megs?

[waddell]

I've been using my Sprint PCS Vision account over bluetooth dial up networking from a Palm TX without getting charged extra. But then, I am not using that much data. Apparently, Sprint doesn't know if you are using BT DUN or not, their system can't tell, it only knows the raw amount of data you use. ...


This is only true of the older 1xRTT phones. The some of the newer EVDO phones
track tethered data separately. They do have a "phone as modem" plan, where this wouldn't matter in terms of price. I'm not a sprint subscriber - this is just what I've picked up from reading pcsintel.com.

[GLeoni]

You can now get a Sprint data plan today, however, for very limited usage. Sprint's direct telephone # for data info is 866-818-1858. Be careful, because most reps answering the phone have no clue. If you find out something other than this, please post.

[Lord Bodak]

Limited usage seems to be the big issue.

T-Mobile is the only company doing this right. But their coverage just isn't up to par.

[eye.surgeon]

I just got mine at Comp USA yesterday. I have a Nokia 6230 w/BT via Cingular. At first the cell phone and 770 would pair well but an error message on the phone told me I had to subscribe to a GPRS service. A call to the data people at Cingular told me that I had to subscribe to their laptop data service. So I was unable to connect via media net as someone earlier had suggested. I'm paying $80/month which is a rip-off but I pay my bill through my office anyways so no biggie. The service is not particularly fast, I would estimate it at half the speed of a WLAN linkup. It is very cool to be connected via BT :)

[DaveC]

I've paired up the 770 via bluetooth with 2 different Cingular plan phones (one Razr V3 and a Sony S710a) and got it configured to use Cingular's GPRS settings. Speeds aren't super fast, but for more simple web pages (ie. text based ones like Craig's List or Yahoo Mail, GMail-simple HTML), it's very usable and will work well in a pinch. See my thread on setting up Cingular GPRS settings for details on getting it configured. I'm waiting to see what my statement shows in terms of data usage before I decide to go to their $19.99 "Unlimited" Media Net plan. Hopefully they don't noticed that it is data being pulled down to a teathered device (ie. not purely WAP page data via the phone's internal browser).

It's not surprising that Cingular is punting and not providing official support for Bluetooth pairing of their cell phones to laptops/PDA's. Just too many products out there to support, easier if they just say "we don't support it" and even more profitable to push you to buying one of their GPRS PCMCIA cards and make you buy a $80/mo data plan for that card.

Actually, technically, the 770 isn't really a Laptop... : ) so doesn't need their teathered laptop plan right?

Dave

[Reggie]

There is also the Cingular PDA Connect unlimited plan ($44.99) for small businesses.
http://www.cingular.com/sbusiness/data_connect

But then it states (see in red):

"CINGULAR DATA CONNECT UNLIMITED PLANS—ADDITIONAL IMPORTANT INFORMATION
The Data Connect $79.99 and PDA Connect plans may only be used with approved, certified devices for the following purposes: (i) Internet browsing, (ii) email, and (iii) intranet access (including access to corporate intranets, email and individual productivity applications like customer relationship management, sales force and field service automation). The plans may not be used with server devices or with host computer applications. Such prohibited uses include, but are not limited to, Web camera posts or broadcasts, continuous JPEG file transfers, automatic data feeds, telemetry applications, automated functions or any other machine-to-machine applications. The plans may not be used to provide full-time connections, including without limitation, private lines or frame relay. Cingular PDA Connect plan: may only be used with compatible palmOne Tungsten W, palmOne Treo, Siemens SX56/66, Motorola MPx200/220, Audiovox 4100 or similar Cingular-certified devices provided that the device is not being used as a modem with other equipment (e.g., computers or ruggedized handhelds) through use of connection kits, other phone/PDA-to-computer accessories, Bluetooth or other wireless technology."

[furlan]

What about Nextel?
only $10/month on top of voice
their phones include a GPS device.

So far I was not successfull connecting a Motorola i870 to Nokia 770. Bluetooth is working but not the dial up networking

[Jeffgrado]

I honestly have not heard of anyone using Nextel for data services over Bluetooth.

[B18DelSolT]

yeah i am having the same issue, I read in the forums that the DUN is S=2 but the tablet doesnt let me use S or =.

[lumpy]

I've paired up the 770 via bluetooth with 2 different Cingular plan phones (one Razr V3 and a Sony S710a) and got it configured to use Cingular's GPRS settings. Speeds aren't super fast, ...
Dave

Is your Razr the one that Cingular sent you whe nyou started your plan or is it an unlocked unbranded model you put your SIM into??

I am wondering as I have heard that Cingular is good at crippling phones by disbling things in the firmware and the ony way to get full functionality is by buying an unbranded unlocked phone and not allowing cingular anywher near it except for you putting the sim card in.


I ask as I am about to start a new plan with them and get my black V3 for $90.00 and hope it will not be BT crippled.

[bhima]

but T-Mobile still doesn't have a great network, and they're the last of the big providers that charges domestic roaming.

T-Mobile has never charged for domestic roaming. Ever. I'm not sure if they ever charged for it when they were called Voicestream, but three or four years ago, when I started with them, they did not.

In terms of network coverage, I'm satisfied in the Pittsburgh area. Different providers are good in different areas. Try talking to people in your local area and see what they say about coverage.

Verizon's prepaid EasyPay plan charges a dollar a minute roaming...

[DaveC]

Is your Razr the one that Cingular sent you whe nyou started your plan or is it an unlocked unbranded model you put your SIM into??

I am wondering as I have heard that Cingular is good at crippling phones by disbling things in the firmware and the ony way to get full functionality is by buying an unbranded unlocked phone and not allowing cingular anywher near it except for you putting the sim card in.


I ask as I am about to start a new plan with them and get my black V3 for $90.00 and hope it will not be BT crippled.

It was a phone I got from Cingular that I unlocked a few months ago (used it in the far East on a recent trip) but otherwise was using a plain old Cingular SIM card. I don't think Cingular locks out the bluetooth communications feature as I was able to bluetooth link/sync my Razr with my Mac even before I unlocked it. Though I didn't try to do any comm via GPRS with the Mac so can't say for sure if the act of unlocking it did the trick.

On the other hand, the Sony Cellphone that I linked to was a friend's which was definitely not unlocked, also on Cingular, was able to act as an Internet Modem via bluetooth to the 770 just fine as well.

Just use the GPRS settings I posted in another thread (do a search for Cingular GPRS settings) and it should work fine, has for others.

BTW, I used the 770 on the per KB data plan the first month, none of the data was flagged as being any different than MediaNet access on my bill. Changed to the "Unlimited" plan last month and once again, though I'd used like 5+ MB of data, none was flagged as anything other than MediaNet access on the bill. I think if you use it in moderation, they're not really checking if the traffic is from the phone's internal e-mail client(s), WAP browser, downloaded Java WEB Browser, IM client or from a bluetooth'ed PDA. Just don't abuse it and maybe we'll all stay under the radar?

Good luck,

Dave

[slackwaresupport]

i have gotten mine to work on cingular with my treo 650, but i had to reflash it with the unbranded firmware.

[oafbot]

I have been able to pair my T616 and my Nokia 770. By default the devices paired, but could not connect to the web. However, if one sets up the connection manually, and dial up the Cingular GPRS, it works out fine. (granted its a bit slow)

If you want to try it out with your Cingular Ericsson T series phone try, after you have paired the device:

connections manager-->menu-->Tools-->Connectivity settings-->Connections-->new-->Data call-->

Then enter the folowing info into the fields:

Dial-up number: *99#
User name: WAP@CINGULARGPRS.COM
password: CINGULAR1

Then finish off the setup process.

This should let you get cingular dial-up GPRS access through your T616 and possibly other T series phones.

[Gourmet]

I have been able to pair my T616 and my Nokia 770. By default the devices paired, but could not connect to the web.
You need to activate the data service at Cingular if you want to access the Internet from a separate device through your mobile.

db

[akpoff]

My 770 has really made me more interested than before in mobile data plans. I've been with Verizon for several years and daily use a Treo 650. Though I haven't been wowed by Verizon, the Treo did its job well enough that I haven't seriously looked. The 770 has changed that.

As soon as I got my 770 I tried to connect via my Verizon data plan. I've suuccessfully paired via Bluetooth with both a Treo 650 and a Motorola E815. Both phones required some minor software modifications to enable bluetooth DUN (google verizon bluetooth DUN <phone> to find files and instructions). The Treo 650 is NOT EVDO -- 1xRTT only. My throughput as measured at toast.net (http://performance.toast.net) was 80 kb/s download and 50 kb/s up. The E815 is EVDO enabled and pulled down at about 250 kb/s (which I'm guessing shows the limit of BT, not EVDO). Sadly the upload speed over EVDO was about the same. I don't have the USB tether kit for the E815 so I don't know what to expect when the BT bottleneck is removed. I've heard others say somewhere in the range of 400 - 800 kb/s for download speed.

I've also paired the 770 to the Motorola V360 from T-Mobile. Toast.net (http://performance.toast.net) showed the 770 at 100 - 120 kb/s download speeds and 50 - 80 kb/s upload. My subjective experience is that the T-Mobile EDGE network is more consistent compared to the 1xRTT at Verizon.

Some of you might find this a bit surprising but I'm cancelling my account with Verizon and switching to T-Mobile. I've been with Verizon for several years but find the T-Mobile plans more compelling. With Verizon I have to pay $60/month to have USB tethering (though I don't think they care or know if you manage to do it via bluetooth). T-Mobile charge $19.95/month for tethering or $29.95/month for tethering + all T-Mobile hotspots. In Houston there's no shortage of Starbucks, Border or FedEx Kinko stores I can stop in and connect up (most airports also but I use those rarely). I've used the 770 at Starbucks with no problems at all. For my purposes high-speed internet sites coupled with ISDN-speeds everywhere else at half the price (even the voice plan was less) are reasons enough.

I didn't decide to switch in a vacuum, though. I also looked into Cingular and Sprint plans. Cingular aren't competitive at all since their fastest data plan is EDGE like T-Mobile and doesn't include the hotspots. Sprint look good, especially with the A900 Blade but there's no compelling reason for me to drop Verizon for Sprint. The data plans are about the same price. The voice plans at Sprint are a bit cheaper but not enough to pull me over. So that really left me with Verizon vs. T-Mobile.

A significant strike against Verizon (and Sprint) is that they disable features in their phones that I want to use -- most importantly bluetooth DUN and obex. As noted above, I had to make modifications to both my Verizon phones to use bluetooth DUN. The only thing T-Mobile do to their phones is lock the phones from use in Europe. After you've been a customer for 90 days they'll give you an unlock code (sooner, I guess, if you're travelling).

Given the above experiences and reasons, T-Mobile and their $29.95 Total Internet plan emerge as the best choice for me. (Did I mention Katherine Zeta-Jones is their spokesperson? :))

--Aaron

Updates: minor clarifications.

[djs_tx]

Off topic but where are you at in Houston? I'm down in Clear Lake.

David

You may have discounted Cingular a little too soon... They just turned on their 3G network here in Houston (but they don't have any decent 3G phones yet). Data is pricier than T-Mobile but I have found that coverage is better with Cingular, especially if you travel away from the major urban areas.
David

[akpoff]

Off topic but where are you at in Houston? I'm down in Clear Lake.

David

You may have discounted Cingular a little too soon... They just turned on their 3G network here in Houston (but they don't have any decent 3G phones yet). Data is pricier than T-Mobile but I have found that coverage is better with Cingular, especially if you travel away from the major urban areas.
David
Funny you should ask -- I'm in a Starbucks in the Galleria area using the wifi. I live further west but still in the area. If there are enough of us we should plan a meet-up. Get up to Houston regularly?

How fast will the Cingular 3G network be?

--Aaron

[djs_tx]

Well, there is advertised speed and there is actual speed. Cingular's 3G is capable of 200kb/sec but not likely they will allow it that high. I'm waiting for a decent BT nokia 3G phone to hit cingular. I'd like to have a flip but I hate the motorola UI.

David

[grimjordax]

I have a cingular account and a Sony Erricson s710a phone. Cingular has what they call Media-Net, which is theer EDGE network internet access on the phone handset. Well, the unlimited Media-Net access is only 9.95 a month. And when you connect via bluetooth:
APN: wap.cingular
Username: WAP@CINGULARGPRS.COM
Password: CINGULAR1

Make sure you set these as your settings on your 770 for your packet data connection. then pair up your phone with the 770. After that just hit connect wait a few seconds and you are connected!

Unlimited access for $9.95 a month. The data rate seems to vary between 80-165 Kbps. It works great for me.

Mike

[DaScud]

Does cingular have different access plans for different regions. In my area,
the unlimited media-net is $19.99 which is still not too bad.

In my tests with the audiovox SMT 5600 i get around 100-120 kbps D/L speed with cingular's edge service.

DaScud

[grimjordax]

OK, using Toast.net I conducted some more formal speed testing on my Nokia 770 and Cingular Media-Net connection ($9.95/month). I used the shuttle + text test and ran it 10 times using the ADDR.com host. The lowest I got was 145 Kbps and the highest was 183 Kbps. This was done with 5 bars on the cell phone(Sony Ericcson s710a). I then moved to an area in my house where I had only 4 bars and repeated the testing. I got a low of 96 Kbps and High of 110 Kbps. Then I found a place with only 3 bars. I got a low of 55 Kbps and high of 69Kbps.

Hope this is helpful.

Mike

[debianfirefox]

I attached a device ( http://www.brookstone.com/shop/product.asp?product_code=475350&search_type=search&search_words=blue%20tooth&prodtemp=t1&cm_re=Result*R2C1*T ) to my sprint phone making it bt enabled. My bt pda was able to connect to the phone via this device.

Were you able to do DUN via bluetooth thru you phone with this device?

[computerfreek]

I have connected to my ISP using a Prepaid Wireless phone as data call . It is it works good just that it is very slow . 14.4 it's like being in 1981 on a bbs :) .

But it aleast works .

I have callplus wireless prepaid it works off verizon network and works with any verizon phone . better prices than verizon prepaid as verizon will hit you with a day fee for each day you use the phone . Not the case with this service and you are still on verizon even if you call 611 it is verzion and a verizon nimber . http://ecallplus.com/cellular/locus-cdma.html


I have also tried to use 1x network but it I just can't seem to get it to connect . I will have to do more testing on that with this prepaid service .

I am useing my roadrunner backup dialup account for my isp.

The phone is an ebay deal i got for $4.99 A V710 this phone works great at DUN is already turned out of the box.

Hope this helps others that may have prepaid servies and just needs to check the email real fast or lookup something.


Computerfreek