Looks like Jeremy Allison has joined the ranks of the 770 discontented...

[rgbyhkr]

Check out the last comment posted to Ari Jaaksi's latest blog entry:

http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=16130344&postID=113242474042911468

Perhaps he can rattle Nokia enough to cough up some answers.

Jeff

[seindal]

l don't read Allison's remarks as regarding the product but rather the US launch and the non-availability of the 770.

When l read all this l feel very lucky that l managed to place an order on the fourth and get one of the first and apparently very few 770s

lt should be a mass product but it is getting an air of exclusivity around it.

René

[Smiley Dan]

lt should be a mass product but it is getting an air of exclusivity around it.

Yeah, great isn't it? :D

Who is Jeremy Allison?

[rgbyhkr]

l don't read Allison's remarks as regarding the product but rather the US launch and the non-availability of the 770.

Exactly. He's just like many of us here. Very interested to get their hands on the product but upset about the delayed availability and more so the complete lack of info about why that is.

Who is Jeremy Allison?

I couldn't find a page that has a bio on him, but here are a few articles from the past year where he's been quoted that have little blurbs about him:

http://news.zdnet.co.uk/software/applications/0,39020384,39186884,00.htm

http://management.itmanagersjournal.com/article.pl?sid=05/04/27/1733231&tid=85

http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1790391,00.asp

Jeff

[Remote User]

I am not going to defend Nokia's inability to provide 770's in sufficient quantity to meet the demand and I'm not going to say that Jeremy Allison's assertions are misplaced.

I do want to say, however, that we should not let our hopes and plans for the 770 be dissuaded by the fact that there are far too few 770's available now and for the next several weeks. We simply must be patient and stay focused on the immediate future when the 770 will be readily available.

We must accept the situation without adding negativity to our individual hopes for the 770 or to the ITT forums. We must make the most of the fact that the few of us who do have 770's are providing essential feedback to each other, to the rest of us and to Nokia. I'm confident that Nokia is doing all that it can to make the 770 readily available ASAP and that the 770 will be widely available in a relatively short period of time, making the frustrations of shortages now will be a minor historical footnote. Let's use the time until this happens to do just one thing - to better prepare for what it will be like when the 770 is widely available.

Good things are worth waiting for and getting negative about anything because it doesn't happen exactly as we'd like it to is only going to serve to make a mountain out of a mole hill. Let's all keep a professional perspective and earn Nokia's respect by giving them the opportunity they deserve to solve the availability problem.

[ChuckP]

I don't think that philosophy is a very good model. Big corporate entities shouldn't be allowed to release a product, withold the product, and not give any details as to why they are doing so. It's almost as if they are wanting to produce some weird sort of alienating hype. I follow your posts ideas and the moralistic approach to trying to be patient and understanding. I have a problem with a company like Nokia, which carries a longstanding tradition of excellent products. This is not a new field of technology for them don't believe that crap. Their are enough units out to know that there is not anything major that is wrong with them. Join freenode and go to #maemo that's where the Nokia coders are kickin it. They aren't having problems with the units. The firmware update helps with process id's and overall processing congestion within the device. I don't know why you care so much about how people express their individual concerns on getting screwed. If you quote me make it good and do the last sentence.

[rgbyhkr]

The big problem for Nokia is that without setting customer expectations properly via updated release information, customers are left to come to their own conclusions. Fair or not, it's human nature. If they don't know this or think that it won't happen, then they need some new employees.

A situation like this one has created impatience. That impatience will spill over into lower allowances for product quirks, issues or outright failures. Rest assured, those who have waited a while will be more likely to raise their voices should they run into problems once they receive their units. It's a bad situation that will almost certainly get worse for them before it gets better.

Really, any information they have or even an official acknowledgement of the delay should have been made public by now. People may still have been upset, but at least they would know something. As it is, they know very little and what they do know they don't put much stock in as the sources have proven to be unreliable.

Jeff

[gultig]

If you quote me make it good and do the last sentence.

Sorry, I couldn't help myself. :rolleyes:

[Remote User]

I don't know why you care so much about how people express their individual concerns on getting screwed. If you quote me make it good and do the last sentence.
No problem, Chuck; I can accept it that some will not understand my suggestion of perspective and patience. If you honestly think I'm being moralistic and you don't care for what I write, or how I write, then I would encourage you to filter my posts. That's what the feature is for.

How about some links to accounts of people "getting screwed" by Nokia?

[Simon]

I agree with Jeff. They have a hard job now making the situation better. Also the lack of any information from Nokia after they basically muffed the product release gives a very bad impression on what their overall attitude to the product will be. If it seems they don't care about the product and don't care about their customers now why would they care more once it does start shipping. It seems very odd after they have done so much to help developers with it with their support for the whole open source mode. I wonder if there isn't some kind of internal politics involved here. Nokia is a phone company. And non phone type things aren't their strong point lets be honest. Look at the N-Gage. As in any big corporation I wouldn't be surprised if there are people inside Nokia who WANT the 770 to fail. I've seen that myself at big corporates I have worked at. Sure in theory you're all one big happy family but in reality people have their own agendas. The impression I have always had with the 770 is it is a smallish, spin off, lets try it and see type project appealing to geeks and hackers. Maybe I am wrong there but that's the impression I always got. The fact it is open source, that the apps that come with it are fairly basic, that the hardware is a little lacking (memory, processor speed, expansion, etc) and also that there were so few available at launch (and when I say launch I always think of the first Vanguard rocket!) says to me they haven't gone all out to make this a success. It's a test product. I still want to get one but I wouldn't be surprised if it soon we see Palm/Pocket PCs with similar sized screens optimised for web and wireless at a reasonable price. In reality a Pocket PC with that size screen and wireless would be a much more useful device. Of course it is unlikely we'd see them at the same price. That is one of the 770s strong points. Of course price means nothing if you can't actually buy one!

[Remote User]

Simon;
A lot of people who are posting here have purchased and received one. A lot of people are posting in the last couple days saying that they've been notified that their units have shipped, too, so it simply isn't accurate to say that "... you can't actually buy one!".

RealNitro has been using his 770 to use the Open Office software and the 770 has built-in Bluetooth to connect to a whole universe of things like keyboards, mice, GPS devices, printers, Earpieces, Cameras, other 770's etc., so it's beyond me how you can claim that the hardware is a little lacking "(memory, processor speed, expansion, etc". Is your comment based on your own experience or are you simply saying that if the 770's specs were all doubled then you'd be happy?

I read a lot of 770 blogs and they are filled with people who are happy with their 770's, so I have no problem with Nokia's performance in the 2 weeks since they announced that the product is being shipped. With the first firmware update I am reading that a lot of the performance issues have been solved. It may be that you just aren't reading the news that I'm reading. That would be understandable. I don't think that you or I have any control over what Nokia has ever done or will ever do. What we each have total control over, though, is how we individually react to what Nokia does or doesn't do. I simply choose to ignore the melodrama, to be patient and ignore the negative because that's what works for me.

[ChuckP]

I'm really not too concerend with the 770 failing as a device. Nokia's Institute of Technology is really good with software development. Mauricio Lin, Edjard Mota, and Ilias Biris are smooth to the core. I have read of their work on dealing with Memory Management on swapless devices(770). The OOM or out-of-memory killer is not usually invoked on desktop and server computers, because those environments contain sufficient resident memory and swap space, making the OOM condition a rare event. Although the 770 has little main memory and no swap space. So they have set the LMW Low Memory Watermark module in the kernel at an optimum setting. The LMW is based on the Linux Security Module(LSM Framework) if any of you care to learn more. I can't wait to get a 770 so I can personally play with the MAT to tune the memory consumption Parameters, maybe some moding and hacking would make this thing Rox. With an Optimal Mat value the memory allocation refusal threshold, should be such as to avoid system slowness and kernel OOM killer execution and leave us with a underpowered proccesor. Regardless of how we stand on Nokia this device is going to get taken apart and finely placed into a category leaving it in its own class. I will never cancel my order and I didn't mean to be mean to Nokia they have an excellent team of Software engineers who have already been tuning the OOM for this device. With firmware updates, and software updates this device will be very solid, even though its their first product of this type.

[Joohan]

Gosh, aren't we loosing patience here? Try to buy a car, a exclusive hifi set or whatever. They always come at the cost of waiting. I wanted to buy a Qtek 9100 back in september, well, they were ready to deliver in november. All that happens all the time for items that are not mainstream. See it as a proof of originality and uniquess. Most people don't even know they can order one. Sooner or later it, or its successor, will hit the malls, and there you'll have it, over the counter. But by that time, it is nothing special with it, copies are made and new versions are the ones to wait for.

//Johan

[rgbyhkr]

Just for laughs, I called Nokia for the latest "estimate" on my order. I got a date I had never heard before. The rep said it "won't be released until January 6th".

Nice to see that they're still being consistent about one thing - inconsistency.

Jeff

[keitai]

It seems to be typical for Nokias high-end/niche products to have a slow ramp-up. Nokia wants to avoid having a warehouses full of expensive hardware not selling.

It usually works well, but if a product gets much more orders than expected, or there is lots of people who want the device as soon as the device gets to market, the backlogs can get quite long. As the component manufacturers have committed to a certain production rate, it might to hard to speed the ramp-up process.

For most users it does not matter (they get the products via operators anyway, and operators bring their own delays to getting new products to sale), but for early adopters and fans it would be great service to make an initial round of the devices big enough to satisfy all the pre-orders at once, instead of manufacturing a minimal round...

[Simon]

We need a poll to see how many people actually have them. I don't know what is considered a lot to be but I don't think there are really that many people with them. Certainly there are very few in the US. More in Europe of course. Those of us in the rest of the world need to jump through hoops to even get one. It is good that people like RealNitro you mention who do have them post lots of information about them and report on their findings and are trying interesting things. But that is the nature of the device. It's for hackers. The early adapters are going to be enthuastic and try things. I wish I was one of them. I would love to report my findings based on real experience but as I said I can't buy one. That's a fact.

And the hardware is lacking. I am not saying it isn't usable but most reviews I have read mention the lack of storage space and sometimes sluggish performance especially when opening multiple apps. Yes, I have also read that the latest firmware does address this somewhat and that's good. I bet pretty much everyone who has one immediately buys a bigger memory card for it. More memory is an obvious and probably easy thing Nokia could do.

And if you don't have a problem with Nokia's performance then good for you. You're obviously a lot more forgiving than I am. Personally I think they really messed up. A friend of mine mentioned it was like when we both worked for a well know, big chip manufacturer. We also worked on non core products and often we had to do releases we (as engineers) knew weren't ready because if we missed a certain date we (and more importantly management) wouldn't get our bonuses. You only have to send one out the door to say you've shipped. My cynical nature naturally leads me to wonder is there isn't something like that happening here.

I don’t think I am being overly negative. I am not saying I think the product is crap and no one should buy one. I am still wanting to buy one and find out for myself. I think it will be great to play with and it could be the forerunner of a new class of devices. I am certainly disappointed that I can’t get one and at the way Nokia have handled their release and the lack of feedback to potential customers on the shipping delays. Remember that saying the customer is always right? Well, if we the customers don’t tell Nokia we are disappointed at the way they handled the release then how will they know they should try to handle them better in the future? Things like not announcing a shipping date until you have sufficient units to ship seems like a pretty obvious thing to me. I don't mind waiting but when they say it is available now then say 'no, sorry wait a few weeks". Then "oh no, wait a month". Then "no, wait until the start of next year". And it is all said unofficially then I consider they are being somewhat impolite!

[Remote User]

And the hardware is lacking. I am not saying it isn't usable but most reviews I have read mention the lack of storage space and sometimes sluggish performance especially when opening multiple apps. If you don't have a problem with Nokia's performance then good for you.
It isn't designed as a replacement for a desktop PC. tiggerboy received his unit today and this is all he had to say to us all. Mine arrived and its everything I wanted it to be!!

I don’t think I am being overly negative. I am not saying I think the product is crap and no one should buy one. I am still wanting to buy one and find out for myself.
And I'm not trying to make anyone feel uncomfortable, either, except the one fellow who kept telling us how glad he was that he had cancelled his order. It's unusual for any company rolling out a new product to have web sites like this filled with such anticipation. I'll apologize to anyone if I've made them feel that it's inappropriate to express their frustrations over delayed shipments, but I don't think I've done that. Still, I don't want anyone to regard me as a pompous old fart, cuz I'm not THAT old.

[Simon]

Nah, no worries mate. We're just having a discussion. No pompus old farts here :) I am looking forward to getting one and playing with it.

I know it's not a PC replacement of course. I just think it is underpowerded memory wise. Still, as long as you can plug in more memory I am sure I'll cope. It just seems a tiny amount when you compare to other devices about these days. Still if it keeps the cost down then leaving it to the user to decide if they want to spend money on extra storage is a good thing.

Even converting from US to NZ$ the thing is a bargain I think. Especially with that extra $50 off someone came up with! I hope we still get that when they ship the US ones.

[ChuckP]

Remote your cool with everyone IMHO and I read your posts and think about what your saying, and I don't think this forum will be exiled once our 770's arrive. We will be helping each other and this community everyday. I imagine we have software engineers, electrical engineers, network administrators, mathematicians, and a plethora of various other professionals among us. Just think of the advancements that will be made between us all. If nothing else we're an investement for Nokia to have for their company! :D

[Titus]

so it's beyond me how you can claim that the hardware is a little lacking "(memory, processor speed, expansion, etc". Is your comment based on your own experience or are you simply saying that if the 770's specs were all doubled then you'd be happy?

I'm generally happy with my device, but as it is marketed as an internet tablet, it's a bit appalling that device reports memory low error messages in some graphics heavy web pages, (no other apps running except browser) even with only one or two browser windows opened. This happens also with latest firmware, although upgrade was a massive improment in usability. So IMHO, it lacks memory, at least with present browser.

[dazwest]

I'm pretty pleased with my 770 too but have to agree that it is lacking memory. Having previously been an 'early adopter' for Windows Mobile devices this was an extremely common complaint with those too.
I guess I expected Linux to be different. Maybe it will be if the lack of memory is not a hardware thing but a case of optimising the software to make better use of the existing memory.
Microsofts general answer to getting software to work faster is always to add more RAM rather than making their coding better. Hopefully the Nokia/Linux combination will take a better approach.

Regarding the PC replacement thread I am excited about just how well this thing will be able to emulate (not necessarily replace) a lot of a PC's functions. It can already do about 50% of the work that my daily PC does and I've no doubt that within 6-12 months that'll get to 100% due to the efforts of open source programmers.
Of course, due to its physical size it won't actually replace your PC for daily work but for flexible work outside of the office it will work well.

For me its a fascinating step into the future and I'm really enjoying seeing how this platform develops!

[Biomech]

I'm generally happy with my device, but as it is marketed as an internet tablet, it's a bit appalling that device reports memory low error messages in some graphics heavy web pages, (no other apps running except browser) even with only one or two browser windows opened. This happens also with latest firmware, although upgrade was a massive improment in usability. So IMHO, it lacks memory, at least with present browser.

Titus, have you installed the latest OS upgrade? I was wondering if people are still getting out of memory errors after the upgrade.

[Mythic]

Yes, the "out of memory" error still appears. It feels to me that it happens less frequently, or I just learnt how to avoid it...

[Titus]

Titus, have you installed the latest OS upgrade? I was wondering if people are still getting out of memory errors after the upgrade.

Yes, I have. It certainly helped in browsing experience (no frequent wlan drop-offs, no sudden reboots, faster browsing), but it probably doesn't make more memory available ;) This isn't a huge problem, usually I encounter this "low-memory stall", when browsing my favourite photography website http://www.dpreview.com . First of all, there are many Flash animations already in the main page, and sample pictures might be 5-7MB jpegs, which easily stall 770, even when keeping my rules of engagement (= only two browser windows, one main, one for popup). But still, this is first portable device, which can handle Dpreview somehow comfortably.

[ChuckP]

yes, this is a problem and Nokia is right on top of it.right above the MAT line lies the area of slowness and OOM region, There is a gap between the MAT and the Signal Threshold(ST). The MAT value is set with experimentation on the device. So a ceiling has been specified within the kernel, MAT is set high to allow applications to allocate necessary memory without affecting overall system performance, but its value should be well defined to gurantee Memory Allocation Error when necessary to prevent extreme memory consumption. Before memory allocation failure occurs, however,process termination can be performed to release allocated memoery. It can be triggered by transmitting the LMS from kernel space to user space to notify applications to free up memory.LMS isdispatched according to ST value. I'll stop here but long story short Nokia is already right on the top of this and are currently tweaking the LMS module and working on the Nokia 770's threshold. With code optimization and the said issues the 770 will improve even within its own limitations.