Teacher tells students Linux is “illegal” and confiscates their copies

[mrebanza]

"...observed one of my students with a group of other children gathered around his laptop. Upon looking at his computer, I saw he was giving a demonstration of some sort. The student was showing the ability of the laptop and handing out Linux disks. After confiscating the disks I called a confrence with the student and that is how I came to discover you and your organization. Mr. Starks, I am sure you strongly believe in what you are doing but I cannot either support your efforts or allow them to happen in my classroom. At this point, I am not sure what you are doing is legal. No software is free and spreading that misconception is harmful. These children look up to adults for guidance and discipline. I will research this as time allows and I want to assure you, if you are doing anything illegal, I will pursue charges as the law allows. Mr. Starks, I along with many others tried Linux during college and I assure you, the claims you make are grossly over-stated and hinge on falsehoods. I admire your attempts in getting computers in the hands of disadvantaged people but putting linux on these machines is holding our kids back.

This is a world where Windows runs on virtually every computer and putting on a carnival show for an operating system is not helping these children at all. I am sure if you contacted Microsoft, they would be more than happy to supply you with copies of an older verison of Windows and that way, your computers would actually be of service to those receiving them..."

Karen xxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxx Middle School
AISD

Hmmmm....

I suppose I should, before anything else, thank you. You have given me the opportunity to show others just what a battle we face in what we do. "We" being those who advocate, support and use Free Open Source Software and Linux in particular.

If you find my following words terse or less than cordial, take a breath and prepare yourself...what I have to say to you are soft strokes to your hair in comparison to what you are about to experience.

First off, if there was even the slightest chance that I was doing something illegal, it would not have been done. To think that I would involve my kids in my "illegal" activities is an insult far beyond outrage. You should be ashamed of yourself for putting into print such none sense.

And please...investigate to your heart's content. You are about to have your eyes opened, that is if you actually investigate anything at all. Linux is a free as-in-cost and free as-in-license operating system. It was designed specifically for those purposes. Linux is used to free people from Microsoft. The fact that you seem to believe that Microsoft is the end all and be-all is actually funny in a sad sort of way. Then again, being a good NEA member, you would spout the Union line. Microsoft has pumped tens of millions of dollars into your union. Of course you are going to "recommend" Microsoft Windows". To do otherwise would probably get you reprimanded at the least and fired at the worst. You are only doing what you've been instructed to do.

You've been trained well.

I don't know when you attended college Karen but the Linux of even two years ago pales in feature and ability to what there is available now...and that in turn will pale in a year's time. linux is superior to MS windows in so many ways, they are too numerous to mention here...I am weary of enumerating them. Unlike Microsoft who meters their "improvements" and then shovels them to you every five years or so for purchase; Linux releases their improvements upon their completion. We receive the newest and the best of the system when it is tested to be usable and stable. Karen, you have no idea the slavery you work under...but you don't know any better. The shame of it is, you are trapped with millions of other teachers in obeying the NEA and preaching the goodness of Windows and Microsoft. A superior, free and absolutely entertaining method of operating your computer is within reach and you are unable to grasp it.

The most disturbing part of this resides in the fact that the AISD purchases millions of dollars of Microsoft Software in a year's time when that money could be better spent on educating our children. A dedicated School Teacher would recognize that fact and lobby for the change to Free Open Source Software and let the money formally spent on MS bindware be used on our kids.

A teacher who cared about her students would do that.

That is sad past my ability to express it to you. Don't shackle your students in your prison Karen.

Now. You give that boy his disks back. Aaron is a brilliant kid and he's learned more using Linux than he ever did using Windows. Those disks and their distribution are perfectly legal and even if he was "disruptive", you cannot keep his property. I have placed a call to the AISD Superintendent and cc'd him a complete copy of your email. It looks like we will get to meet in his office when School starts again after the holiday. I am anxious to meet a person who is this uninformed and still holds a position of authority and learnedness over our children.


XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

found this on another forum . . . figured I would SHARE . . . It is crazy how some people think:cool:

[77h]

disturbing story - you are right - but from 2008 ;)

[batman]

who'de have guessed there are some people who are ignorant..

ironicly a teacher.. :)

[mrebanza]

who'de have guessed there are some people who are ignorant..

ironicly a teacher.. :)

I know I had alot of ignorant teachers just like this . . . Few teachers deserve to be working in the school system at all (even as a janitor)

[oxpo]

there is a follow-up story to this:
http://www.p2pnet.net/story/17874

There is allways good to see the big picture.

/oxpo

[danramos]

That's nothing... get a load of this one: http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/technology/article733264.ece


From the Slashdot summary about this story:
"The idea that Free Software can be sold has some government officials perplexed. Times Online has the story. A UK Trading Standards officer contacted the Mozilla Foundation to report catching a business selling copies of Firefox. The organization confiscated the CDs with the intent to prosecute said business. When informed that such distribution was authorized, the officer first expressed disbelief that Free Software could be sold then said 'If Mozilla permit the sale of copied versions of its software, it makes it virtually impossible for us, from a practical point of view, to enforce UK anti-piracy legislation'."

[matts76]

I didn't know anything about linux until i got my N900, id never even heard of meamo before jan this year let alone that it was linux based, had i not got my N900 i would have missed out on so much and i will definately continue to use and spread the word of how great linux/maemo and the N900 are,
my g/f killed our laptop last week so when i get round to replacing it it wont be with a microsoft os

[mrebanza]

I didn't know anything about linux until i got my N900, id never even heard of meamo before jan this year let alone that it was linux based, had i not got my N900 i would have missed out on so much and i will definately continue to use and spread the word of how great linux/maemo and the N900 are,
my g/f killed our laptop last week so when i get round to replacing it it wont be with a microsoft os

DOWNLOAD UBUNTU / LINUX!!!

Your girlfirends computer will run faster than it even has before!!!

http://www.ubuntu.com/

PS - It's FREE!!!

[zairs]

can I use it along-side windows??
I know its not the point but I've only just go into this and so far I'm struggling.
Also is there any programming guide for dummies??

[debernardis]

Yes it's got to spread the word. When people see they can have all that for free and without viruses, they want to try. When they have the chance to try, the get hooked :)

[gerbick]

Yes it's got to spread the word. When people see they can have all that for free and without viruses, they want to try. When they have the chance to try, the get hooked :)

I used to be of that mindset... I mean Slackware was my first distro way back when... like '95 or so. Anyway, the more I showed people Linux, the more I explained to them that I'll no longer be necessary to clean off viruses they kept getting on their Windows machines... it was great.

For a while.

Then the questions started coming in because they were poking around bits of the OS and/or lacking stuff they knew was only a double-click away in Windows, where most of those double-clicks meant a new virus, but I digress. This was the days before Ubuntu was as friendly as it is now...

Anyway, people that just treat computers as a tool to entertain them and they don't take the time to learn how to install, admin or even spell Linux (don't ask how many times my spellchecker was about to explode because of their misspellings), it hit me. You could liken these people to the same kind of folks that own a nice car but have never lifted the hood. These are the types that don't know how to change the oil, let alone service the car.

So after a while, I started being more tactical to whom I'd show Linux to. The questions lessened... those folks that I introduced to Linux started to ask better, more intelligent questions and later they started to tell me things that in some cases, even I didn't know - I don't play games really, so that was always a place I learned.

Now? My mother called me and told me that her Ubuntu Linux 10.04 machine that she built was running circles around her older Linux machine and she's kicking booty. Not bad for a person that has used Linux and computers only for the last couple of years.

But with that said... the aforesaid stories are tragic. Not all computer users are created equal, but they seem to be equally stupid when they don't know any better.

[Livinmalife]

I had heard of Linux but thanks to my n900 and smokus sixaxis app decided to donwload it.

I must say my PC is pretty ancient and only has around 256 Ram, I think, so Ubuntu doesn't run quite as nice as Windows 7. I think with a purchase of some more RAM ill be making the switch to Linux

[petur]

Your girlfirends computer will run faster than it even has before!!!

But will your girlfriend not also run faster (away from you)? :P

[rash.m2k]

I think the reply to the teacher was a little arrogant and bigoted.

[mrebanza]

can I use it along-side windows??
I know its not the point but I've only just go into this and so far I'm struggling.
Also is there any programming guide for dummies??

YES - You can "DUAL BOOT" your machines and it is very straight forward!!!!

Ubuntu will split your hard drive in half . . . leaving all you files intact . . .. Then when you start your computer you will be asked if you would like to start up Ubuntu or Widows.

You download the ISO image of Ubuntu (thats the hardest part simply because it takes awhile) and then you can either burn it to a CD or Create a Bootable Ubuntu USB Flash Drive

You dont even have to install ubuntu to try it out and use it on your laptop . . . simply select TRY IT and you can run Ubuntu straight off your CD . . . you can browse the web and even browse your hard drive (perfect if you need to save your files like pictures ect before a install) ALL WITH OUT TOUCHING YOUR COMPUTER IN ANY WAY!!!!


http://www.blogcdn.com/www.downloadsquad.com/media/2010/03/00-header-1269090682.jpg

Linux is customizable you can make it look and feel like ANYTHING YOU LIKE . . . from WinXP to Win7 to Mac OSX or a creation all of your own . . . every part of Linux is customizable . . . and their are tons of free apps . . . (Alot more than Maemo) . . . And the can all be install with a click of a button from the Ubuntu Software center . . . .
http://opentechblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/Screenshot-Ubuntu-Software-Center.png

If you are new to linux and want the EASIEST WAY to install it from inside windows you can use a little program called WuBi!!!!
http://i.zdnet.com/blogs/hardy_heron_in_windows_02_sm.jpg
Wubi will install Ubuntu just like an other windows App . . . you can dual boot your Wubi Ubuntu/Linux install right along side your current version of windows . . . Simply choice the size you want for your linux partition and click install . . . deside Linux isn't for you . . . you can uninstall it in the Add - Remove program section of windows just like any other Windows App . . . The only down side to Wubi is thier is no other to Uninstall Windows After you discover Linux Rocks!!!!
http://wubi-installer.org/images/wubi_logo.gif

You can download Wubi Here . . . http://wubi-installer.org/

Enjoy. :D

[jedi]

I just heard Michael Jackson has died =O

[Smooth-op]

I would have found this incredible to believe (teacher & linux discs), but last Sunday, while at a lunch, I was talking to a Bank Manager and showing off my N900. Somehow the fact came up that I use Open Office Org suite for writing etc. he suddenly started saying that i was condoning piracy, I mean really getting cross with me.....When I gently explained that actually it was a free program he changed to accusing Sun Systems of plagiary on Microsoft office, and how I was then using illegal software and that Microsoft should sue Sun Systems!!! I was gobsmacked that a person of his calibre could be so incredibly ignorant.:confused: I did finally manage to shut him up with the obvious explanations but I could see that he wasn't convinced!:)

[andrewfblack]

My Mother in law can't understand that I give my themes away. Every time my wife tells her something about maemo she said I don't understand that he doesn't get paid to do it?

[devu]

wow.. corporations already bought a people minds so far.
Hope more Linux based mobiles will bring back some people from Matrix.

[fatalsaint]

Yup I followed this story a while back; probably when it first surfaced.

There was more; the guy went on tweeting about it. Eventually the Teacher actually tried 3(?) distro's on her home computers; had the HeliOS guy go over and set them up for her and show her how they all work, etc.

It had a happy ending.

Get a load of this story that circled around a while back:

http://www.wkowtv.com/global/story.asp?s=9667184
http://www.wkowtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=9682258
http://addins.wkowtv.com/blogs/troubleshooter/2009/01/dan-cassutos-response-to-ubuntu-story

Which of course spawns things like this ('http://www.inquisitr.com/15383/worlds-dumbest-woman-blames-ubuntu-for-college-failure/').

I'd have to say; for all of my love of Linux - I'm not impressed by the fanboys it attracts.

Also; RE: converting people, I used to have to clean out my Sister in-law's computer of Virus' constantly. She always managed to break something on windows. I finally (between my wife and I, yes, the wife uses Ubuntu too) got her to let me load Ubuntu on it so she can toy with it for a while. I told her I have no problems re-loading it if she can't handle it.

Haven't heard a complaint. In fact; every time I ask her about it she talks about how much she loves how much faster it is than her old windows. She needed instruction on how to do some things (rip her cd's) - but that was it.

Wife's family asked me to provide one of my spare laptops to her brother for his birthday. I set it up with Ubuntu first and told him I'd load Windows on it if it doesn't for him and his College stuff. 2 years now and he's using it fine. (He complained not being able to move documents from his system to his wife's (windows) - we have since corrected that).

Linux is definitely not just for the geeks of the world.


@Livinmalife - Ubuntu should take less resources than Windows 7; not more. I suggest going into your Visual Effects and disabling the fancy stuff.

[andrewfblack]

I remember that girl that dropped out of school because she didn't know how to get ubuntu to work on Laptop what gets me is she missed 2 semisters. Even on Windows Computers I restore for my friends and co workers I install open office and other free software like GIMP. I know its not free and open but I do install AVG also its atleast free. I get people all the time that tell me come on I know you have a microsoft office disk can't you just install it on my computer. I could but I wont, I tell them that for what they need they don't need ms office. I only have it because the power plant I work at gave it to be for $10 for home use.

[tso]

the biggest reason why windows "wins" is that it comes preinstalled on anything from high end alienware to low end cheap stuff from some third shift out of china.

and the brick and mortar stores love this, as they can then sell third party boxes, like symantec's (that thanks to taking payment for updates after the first year, can be resold. Yep i have seen it happen).

Basically the whole thing hinges on "consumer" being the word we have been trained to use on ourselves. I cant speak for anyone else, but to be that word invoke a image of a baby bird in the nest, stretch its neck towards mama corp.

[tzsm98]

I am a member of the AFT and not NEA. I have to say that there has never been "party line" on software that I have heard. The gratuitous chucking of rocks at the NEA is an easy cheap shot so the respondant took it. The reality of it is teacher's unions are not directive of their members. The members direct the organization. This is done by way of annual or triennial elections of officers.

What does this have to with Linux? Simply put it means that there is not a political bias toward Windows. There is an educational bias for Windows that runs from this thinking

"Education prepares our youth for the real world. In the real world Windows is what is used in the 90% of the installed computers. To properly prepare our students to function in the real world they will need to know their way around a Windows environment."

It is really that simple. It has nothing to do with Microsoft and everything to do with preparing students to use the installed machines in the real world. If Linux should become the dominant OS in the future I would hope that the educational establishment, and individual teachers, would provide ready access to Linux in the clasroom.

[tirtawn]

can I use it along-side windows??
I know its not the point but I've only just go into this and so far I'm struggling.
Also is there any programming guide for dummies??

With Linux ? yes.

You can dual boot linux / windows.
With VMWare, you can run windows & Linux concurrently.
If your primary OS is windows, then you will install Linux as the guest O/S.

If your primary OS is linux, then you can install Windows as the guest O/S.

Programming guide: A lot, just use QT so you can write in linux and write in n900 :)

[fatalsaint]

"Education prepares our youth for the real world. In the real world Windows is what is used in the 90% of the installed computers. To properly prepare our students to function in the real world they will need to know their way around a Windows environment."

It is really that simple. It has nothing to do with Microsoft and everything to do with preparing students to use the installed machines in the real world. If Linux should become the dominant OS in the future I would hope that the educational establishment, and individual teachers, would provide ready access to Linux in the clasroom.

I am raising my children on Ubuntu. They play all their games; including the education software GCompris ('http://gcompris.net/') for learning the keyboard, mouse, alphabet and math.

So I guess we'll pick up this debate in 15 years?

(OH! But wait! When he went to the In-laws he was able to figure out quite quickly how to use their Windows Vista... nevermind. :rolleyes:)

[tso]

I am a member of the AFT and not NEA. I have to say that there has never been "party line" on software that I have heard. The gratuitous chucking of rocks at the NEA is an easy cheap shot so the respondant took it. The reality of it is teacher's unions are not directive of their members. The members direct the organization. This is done by way of annual or triennial elections of officers.

What does this have to with Linux? Simply put it means that there is not a political bias toward Windows. There is an educational bias for Windows that runs from this thinking

"Education prepares our youth for the real world. In the real world Windows is what is used in the 90% of the installed computers. To properly prepare our students to function in the real world they will need to know their way around a Windows environment."

It is really that simple. It has nothing to do with Microsoft and everything to do with preparing students to use the installed machines in the real world. If Linux should become the dominant OS in the future I would hope that the educational establishment, and individual teachers, would provide ready access to Linux in the clasroom.
how about, rather then teaching them specific programs, teach them concepts that will be applicable to situations. Or do i have to lofty a impression of modern education?

[Sopwith]

...
"Education prepares our youth for the real world. In the real world Windows is what is used in the 90% of the installed computers. To properly prepare our students to function in the real world they will need to know their way around a Windows environment."

It is really that simple. It has nothing to do with Microsoft and everything to do with preparing students to use the installed machines in the real world. If Linux should become the dominant OS in the future I would hope that the educational establishment, and individual teachers, would provide ready access to Linux in the clasroom.

I cannot believe a teacher just wrote that. Or rather, I do not want to believe...

There is NO NEED WHATSOEVER to teach anyone how to use a specific operating system. The concept of teaching "computer literacy" will soon go under together with the baby boomers who needed it. My generation (X) relied on RTFM mostly, so we did not need teachers. Anyone younger than my generation just uses computers WITHOUT studying them first. My kid was fully proficient as a not-tech Windows user at 6...

Jeez, some lame excuse...

[stayloa]

how about, rather then teaching them specific programs, teach them concepts that will be applicable to situations. Or do i have to lofty a impression of modern education?

I do agree that the ideal is to indeed teach transferable skills. I do also think that bashing the unions is ridiculous when they clearly weren't involved and are of course directed by the workers giving them a well needed voice. Lastly, kids DO need to be taught windows... Transferable skills are great, but its true that windows rules the industry and probably always will. It still wins on compatibility and ease of use in many ares... I can't see it ever being toppled, however much I support linux.

Dual boot 7 and Ubutnu here!

[DoctorA]

DOWNLOAD UBUNTU / LINUX!!!

Your girlfirends computer will run faster than it even has before!!!

http://www.ubuntu.com/

PS - It's FREE!!!
Few days ago ditched XP Pro on secondary laptop and installed Ubuntu. Initial impressions are very positive! I will use and hopefully learn some new things.
Doc

[Sopwith]

I guess those DOS lessons are being of great use to you nowadays?

... Lastly, kids DO need to be taught windows... Transferable skills are great, but its true that windows rules the industry and probably always will. It still wins on compatibility and ease of use in many ares...

No, they do not.

IMO, anyone who NEEDS to be TAUGHT how to interact with a computer probably shouldn't be allowed near one.

BTW this thread is in the wrong subforum.

[fatalsaint]

It still wins on compatibility and ease of use in many ares... I can't see it ever being toppled, however much I support linux.

Huh?

Compatibility? No.

Windows is not compatible with a damned thing other than Windows. That's it.

With Linux - Auto-detect windows installs, automatically asks you if you want to dual boot, automatically sets up a boot loader for you to dual boot.

With Windows - Overwrite MBR; no options; no care for other OS's installed; nothing.

Windows can't read/write ext3 without getting special stuff. Most modern distro's will automatically recognize and mount NTFS now days.

I agree with you windows is more popular; and more programs are written for windows - but windows itself is not compatible with a damn thing other than itself.

1. Capable of existing or performing in harmonious, agreeable, or congenial combination with another or others: compatible family relationships.
2. Capable of orderly, efficient integration and operation with other elements in a system with no modification or conversion required.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/compatibility

[bandora]

I don't understand all the hate on Microsoft.. I like linux and all, and I definately love my N900, but I also love Windows, Especially Windows 7, it's fast! Also the people who gets viruses on their computers are just a bunch of people that don't have common sense imo, if someone pays a little bit of attention + have a great Internet Security software (like Kaspersky) then they won't have any problems, last time I had a virus/spyware.. etc. well, Ijust can't remember when was that! ;)

Crazy stories btw.. O.o

[silvermountain]

I don't understand all the hate on Microsoft.. I like linux and all, and I definately love my N900, but I also love Windows, Especially Windows 7, it's fast! Also the people who gets viruses on their computers are just a bunch of people that don't have common sense imo, if someone pays a little bit of attention + have a great Internet Security software (like Kaspersky) then they won't have any problems, last time I had a virus/spyware.. etc. well, Ijust can't remember when was that! ;)

Crazy stories btw.. O.o

I absolutely agree. I love Windows 7 and can't see any reason for switching from that to any other OS at this point in time.

EDIT: Having said that I haven't used Linux on a PC for 3+ years so...tonight I'll be Wubi'ing to try it out.

[wmarone]

I don't understand all the hate on Microsoft.
Perhaps you missed the mid to late 90s, culminating in their antitrust investigation and conviction. Or perhaps their persistent and vague flap about software patents to try and drive people away from Linux? Or the 5 years where IE6 was dominant and MS did absolutely nothing to truly innovate, resulting in stagnation and tons of workarounds until Firefox improved enough to force them to release IE7?

There are very, very good reasons to not like Microsoft and no reason at all to trust them.

[danramos]

can I use it along-side windows??
I know its not the point but I've only just go into this and so far I'm struggling.

Sure, you can use it right alongside. The easiest way, if you already run Windows, to head over to http://wubi-installer.org/ and just download the installer. You can even uninstall it just like any old Windows app (from the add/remove panel) if you decide you want to take it back out. Ironically, even installing it this way, it's still a full-speed real copy of Ubuntu Linux running on your computer.

[silvermountain]

Benchmark testing of Win 7 vs Ubuntu 10.04:
http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=linux_windows_part2&num=1

Disclaimer: Never heard of Phoronix and not sure how credible their testing is.

[danramos]

Linux is definitely not just for the geeks of the world.

Ironically, about a couple of years ago, my sister got fed up with Windows one time too many. She's the one I gave my old (broken kickstand) N800 to. She rather liked how Linux ran on the N800 and she knows I run a Linux on my own systems. So, she asked me where she could get it. I mentioned ubuntu and how she could run it live without installing over Windows, if she wanted.

The next day she gleefully pointed out that she tried it.. liked it and installed it. She is, by no means, a technical person. With the exception of some driver glitches (thanks, Acer.. jackasses) which I help her work around, once it's running she's exceptionally happy with it and even she points out that she doesn't want to go back to Windows anymore.

And my mom--the one that actually outright HATED computers for most of my life.. I got her a laptop that CAME with Ubuntu (A Dell 15-inch laptop) and it runs very well. She sometimes screws up a few things here and there (mainly her iPod that I'd gotten for her--less so Linux itself) but on the whole, compared to when she ran Windows on her first computer a few years ago, she's experiencing a LOT less headaches and she really seems to like her computer, now.

So yeah.. Ubuntu seems to have matured into an OS that can cater to the non-nerdy, non-geeky, non-technical of society just as readily as us goofballs.

[danramos]

I am a member of the AFT and not NEA. I have to say that there has never been "party line" on software that I have heard. The gratuitous chucking of rocks at the NEA is an easy cheap shot so the respondant took it. The reality of it is teacher's unions are not directive of their members. The members direct the organization. This is done by way of annual or triennial elections of officers.

What does this have to with Linux? Simply put it means that there is not a political bias toward Windows. There is an educational bias for Windows that runs from this thinking

"Education prepares our youth for the real world. In the real world Windows is what is used in the 90% of the installed computers. To properly prepare our students to function in the real world they will need to know their way around a Windows environment."

It is really that simple. It has nothing to do with Microsoft and everything to do with preparing students to use the installed machines in the real world. If Linux should become the dominant OS in the future I would hope that the educational establishment, and individual teachers, would provide ready access to Linux in the clasroom.

So then, how do you explain all those Apple II's and Macintoshes in schools all in the late 80's and throughout the 90's? Also, please explain "dominant?" Isn't Linux being used at least as much as Windows, even if people aren't realizing it? (Think everything from embedded OS all the way up to servers)

Please response in a 500 word essay form. Thank you.

[geneven]

Users tend to prefer Windows because it works with stuff they already know and use. I would like to convert a friend of mine to Linux, but for one thing she is addicted to computer games that require Shockwave.She uses graphics programs and isn't prepared to learn the Gimp.

The fact is that many Windows programs are more user friendly than Linux programs. i have tried very hard to convert people to Linux and generally they won't go for it. I myself usually run Win7 because it is better at most of the stuff I do -- text to speech and speech to text, for example.

[sajman]

if i download ubuntu and make an image cd

restart pc with cd in

and follow instructions?

can i format whole computer?
and have a fresh install, no dual booting
will all drivers be found?
will my belkin wireless adapter still work etc??

im getting myself a super laptop at the end of the month so i dont need or want xp on this pc anymore!!

so i might aswell turn it into a linus beast and see what all the hypes about :D

i love maemo on n900 so why wouldnt i love linux

[Reggie]

Let's stay on topic and leave political remarks out of it.

Thanks.

[danramos]

if i download ubuntu and make an image cd

restart pc with cd in

and follow instructions?

can i format whole computer?
and have a fresh install, no dual booting
will all drivers be found?
will my belkin wireless adapter still work etc??

im getting myself a super laptop at the end of the month so i dont need or want xp on this pc anymore!!

so i might aswell turn it into a linus beast and see what all the hypes about :D

i love maemo on n900 so why wouldnt i love linux

Everything except your question about drivers can be answered positively. Drivers will depend on whether the manufacturer uses a standard protocol to support their device (ie: USB HID for mice and keyboards, USB audio, etc), has provided support to the Linux kernel or whether the community has figured out how to use it on their own. No guarantees there.. but it might be reassuring to know that lately, out of the box, Linux does support a LOT more hardware than Windows.

[sajman]

is there a way to check if my hardware is compatible with Linux, almost like a list i can pick and choose from?

i should just google it really :)

ubuntu half downloaded, cd ready for burning of iso image! :D


feckle it, im just guna install it!! muhahahaha i laugh in the face of danger!!!

ok, im prob going to spend all evening mucking about with my pc rather than spend "quality time" with my girlfriend! but heyho! just wait till my new tv and laptop come at the end of the month! :D

[dmj726]

Generally speaking, I've had a lot better luck with hardware just working on Linux. Here's a partial list of what works for me on Linux out of the box and not on windows: All HP printers I've ever tried (worse in that windows would jam one of the printers after installing their massive driver), my sound card (an annoying hour to install on windows), scanner (never did work on Vista or 7), sata controller (was able to use driver cd for windows). Of course proprietary drivers on Ubuntu are nicely collected by the hardware drivers GUI, so you don't have to hunt down drivers on a website.

[Venemo]

Mrebanza, this was an impressive story.

Do you know what the ending was?

[silvermountain]

Hm, I couldn't wait and decided to get Wubi right away...it's been 'stuck' on about 60% complete at the stage "modify_bootini" for a good 20-30 mins now. Hmm....

[ceroberts75]

brought to my attention my post was deleted due to "political" incitement. also notified it was posted twice...however i only posted it once.


i guess the truth just has to stand out some times.

maybe this post will be deleted as well.

maybe ill be call some right-winged nut that collects branches?

would that be politcal? or mentioning of a bird? uh oh...that may be political too! yikes. i better be carefull. it would be almost as bad a distributing FREE copies of a Linux OS in a government run school.

:eek:

[wmarone]

:eek:

Your crazy is showing. And this the -third- time you've made a post along these lines. It is at best offtopic, and at worst needlessly inflammatory.

[Patroclo]

I respect the ideas of the teacher in the first post. Maybe she exagerated, but maybe it's dangerous to let chidren know that there are things which are free. I am not a psychologist, but maybe it's true that they have to learn the value of maney when they are young and that life is hard and not easy.
Maybe the new generations don't know the meaning of words like work, effort, earn the money. They cannot expect that everithing is free. They cannot expect their parents to buy them iphone or n900! I bought it with the money I got working. Behind my n900 there are efforts!
That's why, even if I don't agree with the teacher about linux itself, I understand her educative project.

[postformac]

I have also always been a Windows user and only tried Linux recently, just before I got my N900 (I now have a dual boot with XP and Ubuntu). I appreciate the benefits of Linux but I still think that on balance Windows is an easier environment, maybe I'm just more used to it.

I had problems with drivers for dual screens, yes there was a work-around but it took me a while to get it figured out. I also found that trying to start programming on Linux was way more complicated than on Windows, compiling still seems to involve lots of X terminal use. Even after downloading supposedly full IDE programs I still ended up doing lots of googling and having to go through the terminal to get all of the dependencies in place and configured correctly. To be honest I don't expect to have to use terminal at all, that just reminds me of dos boxes in win98...

Still now with the development for the N900 its all scratchbox and command line compiling with switches to set and lots of stuff to remember. Yes I could take the time to learn it all but I'd rather have a nice gui based ide with a button to click to compile the project. Qt on Windows is a much nicer option in my opinion. Maybe I have missed something that makes it just as easy on Linux.

Although I have a dual boot I still find myself using Windows way more that Ubuntu. I'm not trying to knock Linux, like I say I can see that there are some benefits and completely agree with the whole "don't let MS rule your life" philosophy, however I still think Windows is easier.

[Sopwith]

@Patroclo: You're so full of it... Speak of your own children, please.

My children will learn that the best things in life are free, that money doesn't matter, and that giving and being a part of a community is more important than slaving away for some corporation.

[ceroberts75]

Your crazy is showing. And this the -third- time you've made a post along these lines. It is at best offtopic, and at worst needlessly inflammatory.

well, the first one was intentional...not meant to be offensive...just truthfull, as i know many, many, many teachers.

dunno how the second copy of it was posted....if i did, then it must have been some glitch with my pc...but doubt it. either way, i didnt not intentionally repost the same post.

and i am not sure about this being the third.

but if that is what you mean by third time. so be it.


now...."crazy" is exactly what that teacher was doing. responding as an athoritative figure with no backing in what was being said.

i dont think that i have met one linux developer, ever, that was not cool about sharing the software like that. this includes the ones i am related to.

whatever, i hope that gets you back to topic.

[Patroclo]

@Patroclo: You're so full of it... Speak of your own children, please.

My children will learn that the best things in life are free, that money doesn't matter, and that giving and being a part of a community is more important than slaving away for some corporation.
2 things:
1) please don't offend me. I offended no one! Let me express my ideas: I am a supporter of democracy.
2) sorry I don't agree with what you said.

[sajman]

rabble rabble!!

i am now running Ubuntu :D updating system as we speak... then im off to explore!

anyone know how to stop it asking me for a password all the time?

[ceroberts75]

2 things:
1) please don't offend me. I offended no one! Let me express my ideas: I am a supporter of democracy.
2) sorry I don't agree with what you said because I am not comunist.


uh ohhh. my fortuneteller says that moderation is in the works for political viewpoints....and to keep it on track.

bad thrwead. bad thread. should close it down.

[fatalsaint]

anyone know how to stop it asking me for a password all the time?
You mean when installing software?

It keeps your authentication cached (I think the default is 15 minutes) - if you continuously do administrative tasks in that 15 minutes it won't ask anymore.

If, however, your installing something and it takes more than 15 minutes it'll ask again. That's a security feature.

There is a way ('https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RootSudo#Remove%20Password%20Prompt%20For%20sudo') to stop it altogether... but I strongly suggest against it.

[sajman]

yea was installing nvida drivers. and it asked me a couple of times when i was digging around. ive left it now to watch a bit of tv.... so ill probably play around a bit more 2mra! cheers boss!!

i suppose i can use the ubuntu documentation for all my future queries! thanks

[danramos]

is there a way to check if my hardware is compatible with Linux, almost like a list i can pick and choose from?

Well, you could check the Ubuntu hardware compatibility list (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardwareSupport/)... but better still, you could just download and burn a CD image of Ubuntu and just boot it straight off the CD without installing it, just to see if it'll work fine with your devices.

[sajman]

Well, you could check the Ubuntu hardware compatibility list (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardwareSupport/)... but better still, you could just download and burn a CD image of Ubuntu and just boot it straight off the CD without installing it, just to see if it'll work fine with your devices.

its all done and dusted!! thankyou though!!

everything went ok :D

[mrebanza]

I don't understand all the hate on Microsoft.. I like linux and all, and I definately love my N900, but I also love Windows, Especially Windows 7, it's fast! Also the people who gets viruses on their computers are just a bunch of people that don't have common sense imo, if someone pays a little bit of attention + have a great Internet Security software (like Kaspersky) then they won't have any problems, last time I had a virus/spyware.. etc. well, Ijust can't remember when was that! ;)

Crazy stories btw.. O.o

IMO . . . people who get virus's on windows computers are simply not computer literate . . . . who can't tell the difference between a malware site and windows it self . . . . who dont understand that a .EXE is a program file (that could potentially contain a virus) and not a myspace layout or a music file . . . .

I have never used an anti virus with windows in my life and I can never had a virus . . . The first thing I used to do on a new WinPC was uninstall the free trail virus protection BS (they really slow down the sh*t out of an already bloated WinPC) . . . honestly they dont protect you against sh*t . . . they simply protect you from the malware that they know about . . . . but scumbags write new viruses for Windows Everyday . . . their is a reason that windows vista and up "DIM THE LIGHTS" to ask you if you REALLY want to run every new program that you open from unknown sources . . . it is because programs can hurt your PC . . . they can spy on you . . . . they can delete and edit system files . . . they can do what ever the program coded them to do . . . .

They same is true in Linux and Mac but their are to big differences . . . . first is market share . . . . most people use Windows so most viruses are written for Windows . . . Second is password protection . . . If the person using your Linux / Mac Box doesn't know the password it is pretty damn hard to do any real damage . . . you can install or run new programs with out the password not can you change system settings. . .. . on a Mac you can't even install iTunes without the password . . . makes sense . . . so you can freely allow, with a clear mind, your friends, co-workers, students and family to use your computer without the worry that they are going to accidental screw something up !

But that is they thing the though . . . since windows is a different language than Mac/Linux so they virus's simply wont work on these operating systems . . . feel free to download and open up all the viral infected EXE's that you want on Linux . . . the wont do anything!

Windows 7 is "fast" I guess as compared to Win Vista but as compared to Ubuntu or linux in general it simply doesn't compare . . . you have to understand that nearly the entire internet is running linux . . . from facebook to twitter - Google and even this forum . . . all their severs are running linux and it is for a good reason . . . Linux is built for efficiency, flexibility, stability and compatibility . . . .
I would hate to image Google having to run on a Windows Sever . . . It would be extremely slow and most likely take an extremely long time to return a search query to the end user . . . .

[tzsm98]

I cannot believe a teacher just wrote that. Or rather, I do not want to believe...

There is NO NEED WHATSOEVER to teach anyone how to use a specific operating system. The concept of teaching "computer literacy" will soon go under together with the baby boomers who needed it. My generation (X) relied on RTFM mostly, so we did not need teachers. Anyone younger than my generation just uses computers WITHOUT studying them first. My kid was fully proficient as a not-tech Windows user at 6...

Jeez, some lame excuse...

Not everyone in my urban school district has access to a computer outside of the school environment. You are blessed to be in the position of exposing your children at an early age. We not only have to teach your kid but every other kid, regardless of basic skill set that comes from home, how to get prepared for the real world. There may be no need to teach a specific operating system but you have to teach them to use a computer. So do you teach them with an OS that is on 5% of the machines or one that is 90% of the machines?

One of the complaints of years past was "The kids were all taught on Apple IIe machines and PCs are in the work place." Perhaps some of the institutional Windowsphilia comes as a reaction to that criticism.

I am all for letting the students take a class in Linux, C++, php or what ever technology tool they want to learn. Once they graduate the machine they turn on in the business where they landed a job is probably going to be a Windows machine.

[fatalsaint]

One of the complaints of years past was "The kids were all taught on Apple IIe machines and PCs are in the work place." Perhaps some of the institutional Windowsphilia comes as a reaction to that criticism.


Years past Mac and Windows worked almost nothing alike. And CDE was also very cludgey. (people still swear by it though..)

Mac still is a bit out in left field... but Windows and KDE/Gnome (two most common Linux DE's) are pretty much interchangeable on how they look/feel/work.

But, very basic example, teaching kids to "look for an applications menu" is a better idea than teaching kids to "click start".

[danramos]

Years past Mac and Windows worked almost nothing alike. And CDE was also very cludgey. (people still swear by it though..)

Mac still is a bit out in left field... but Windows and KDE/Gnome (two most common Linux DE's) are pretty much interchangeable on how they look/feel/work.

But, very basic example, teaching kids to "look for an applications menu" is a better idea than teaching kids to "click start".

Agreed. Especially your comment about clicking 'Start'. A lot of good it'll do, now, to look for 'Start' in these newest versions of Windows.

Get back to computer science and stop pretending that Windows is what a computer looks like.

[fatalsaint]

Agreed. Especially your comment about clicking 'Start'. A lot of good it'll do, now, to look for 'Start' in these newest versions of Windows.


This is true. I had forgotten that start was replaced by the blue windows logo ball now ;). Still on XP at the work environment and the home environment well.. hah. Windows. Right.


Get back to computer science and stop pretending that Windows is what a computer looks like.

... I really hope this wasn't directed at me....

[danramos]

... I really hope this wasn't directed at me....

I think I directed it at anyone that thinks Windows is what computers look like. But then, that was from me half an hour ago. I was so much younger and wilder then.

[geneven]

I think that a person without an antivirus program wouldn't necessarily know if they had ever had a virus. But they would be dangerous to their friends.

[roundyz]

What the hell is a woman working in a school and not cooking the dinners? (sorry not 4chan...)

[Sopwith]

I think that a person without an antivirus program wouldn't necessarily know if they had ever had a virus. But they would be dangerous to their friends.

Are we still talking COMPUTER viruses here? :eek:

I never use a constantly-on AV, but periodically scan my computer, and usually find nothing (or, rarely, very low threat level nuisances). I believe that the ONLY way to protect your data is by regular backups, and anything else is FUD.

Using an AV all the time is like taking antibiotics every day...

[hellomezzy]

for those people earlier in this thread wanting a manual for ubuntu... i came across this one a few days ago:

http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/04/ubuntu-1004-manual-released.html

[Sopwith]

...but you have to teach them to use a computer...
...Once they graduate the machine they turn on in the business where they landed a job is probably going to be a Windows machine.



I agree that it is important for every kid to be given the opportunity to interact with computers, at home or in school. Still, if they need TEACHING (rather than learning/discovering by themselves), I guess that they will only use a computer in their future job to add the price for the fries and the burger...

[mrebanza]

So then, how do you explain all those Apple II's and Macintoshes in schools all in the late 80's and throughout the 90's? Also, please explain "dominant?" Isn't Linux being used at least as much as Windows, even if people aren't realizing it? (Think everything from embedded OS all the way up to servers)

Please response in a 500 word essay form. Thank you.

LOL @ 500 word essay form . . . I know though virtually the entire internet is being run on Linux . . . and what is the whole . . . . people need to "LEARN WINDOWS" . . . what is their to really learn???

They act as if a Linux Based Window Manger / OS's are written in Chinese . . . I am pretty sure if someone is able to use a Mac or a Linux Box they should have no problem using a WinPC . . .
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/56/Indigo_iMac_G3_slot_loading.jpg/614px-Indigo_iMac_G3_slot_loading.jpg
In the 80's and 90's Mac Computers DID DOMINATE the education field . . . their was a Mac in every class room . . . In 1990's when Bill Clinton and Al Gore when on their crusade to put PC's in the hands of American Students (and invent the internet) it was iMacs that we received . . . Two in every class room along with a computer lab full of them . . . Windows is far from the end all and be all of computing . . . but they managed to lock the game down in the same style that Google is taking the Android Platform . . . Selling a TON of software licences for dirt cheap to hardware manufactures until "their is a Windows PC in every home in America" . . . Macs have always been alot more expensive because they build the hardware and software in house (or they used to) and then dont wholesale the software licence to anyone else so the over all cost of development is higher I suppose . . .


Back to the point . . . Linux is everywhere you just dont see it . . . You use linux every day you just dont know it . . . Google is Linux . . . Facebook is Linux . . . Twitter is Linux . . . This Forum is Built on Linux . . . I learned on this forum that even the TiVo is running a Linux Kernel . . .

[mrebanza]

Using an AV all the time is like taking antibiotics every day...

very well said . . .

[mrebanza]

I agree that it is important for every kid to be given the opportunity to interact with computers, at home or in school. Still, if they need TEACHING (rather than learning/discovering by themselves), I guess that they will only use a computer in their future job to add the price for the fries and the burger...

. . . if you need a manual to open up MS Office and Compose and Save a document then you are in need of some help

[roundyz]

LOL @ 500 word essay form . . . I know though virtually the entire internet is being run on Linux . . . and what is the whole . . . . people need to "LEARN WINDOWS" . . . what is their to really learn???

They act as if a Linux Based Window Manger / OS's are written in Chinese . . . I am pretty sure if someone is able to use a Mac or a Linux Box they should have no problem using a WinPC . . .
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/56/Indigo_iMac_G3_slot_loading.jpg/614px-Indigo_iMac_G3_slot_loading.jpg
In the 80's and 90's Mac Computers DID DOMINATE the education field . . . their was a Mac in every class room . . . In 1990's when Bill Clinton and Al Gore when on their crusade to put PC's in the hands of American Students (and invent the internet) it was iMacs that we received . . . Two in every class room along with a computer lab full of them . . . Windows is far from the end all and be all of computing . . . but they managed to lock the game down in the same style that Google is taking the Android Platform . . . Selling a TON of software licences for dirt cheap to hardware manufactures until "their is a Windows PC in every home in America" . . . Macs have always been alot more expensive because they build the hardware and software in house (or they used to) and then dont wholesale the software licence to anyone else so the over all cost of development is higher I suppose . . .


Back to the point . . . Linux is everywhere you just dont see it . . . You use linux every day you just dont know it . . . Google is Linux . . . Facebook is Linux . . . Twitter is Linux . . . This Forum is Built on Linux . . . I learned on this forum that even the TiVo is running a Linux Kernel . . .

hmmm, you mean served on a linux host or a hosts? Perhaps. but the thought of many many more windows machines visiting theses hosts suggests a small ratio of linux to other..

[geneven]

Are we still talking COMPUTER viruses here? :eek:

I never use a constantly-on AV, but periodically scan my computer, and usually find nothing (or, rarely, very low threat level nuisances). I believe that the ONLY way to protect your data is by regular backups, and anything else is FUD.

Using an AV all the time is like taking antibiotics every day...

That's very interesting, but I'm a bit puzzled. Since the problem with taking antibiotics every day is that immunity to the antibiotics is acquired as stronger responses to the antibiotics evolve, can you explain how computer viruses are similar?

Can you summarize what additional harm antivirus programs do if they are always present?

I haven't experienced any problems with the antivirus programs that I've been running for twenty years or so; the harm they do must be extraordinarily subtle.

[Sopwith]

That's very interesting, but I'm a bit puzzled. Since the problem with taking antibiotics every day is that immunity to the antibiotics is acquired as stronger responses to the antibiotics evolve, can you explain how computer viruses are similar?

Can you summarize what additional harm antivirus programs do if they are always present?

I haven't experienced any problems with the antivirus programs that I've been running for twenty years or so; the harm they do must be extraordinarily subtle.

All right, I'll pretend not to notice the sarcasm :cool:

Antivirus programs waste resources, often a lot more than other software. Here's a short improvised list:

1. Take up RAM
2. Slow down start-up
3. Interfere with I/O operations
4. "Phone home" to download updates
5. Crash legitimate software due to false alarms

I am sure there's more, but this is enough for me. If you're into conspiracy theories, you could also think about who profits most from creating viruses, and draw some conclusions...

Antibiotics disturb the natural microflora of the organism and free up resources for the resistant pathogenes that will inevitably emerge. Similarly, AV give a false sense of security and prevent awareness, thus rendering the user helpless in situations when they fail. I agree this is not a perfect simile, but I still like it since it helps to present a radically different point of view.

[Larswad]

windows? yeah, I heard about that old quirky and bloated stuff in history class. Some persistent nostalgic people even used those operating systems as long as into the year 2020. Wasn't it some Gill Bates woman or something that invented that costly stuff way back? well she's dead now and her software too. Feels real good that all computers these days only use open source and free software. But then again, who would want a brain implant with buggy os kernel when the license has expired or when some nasty virus hits you from the net and shuts down your brain...not me anyway. no sir. oh, here it is! the teleporter is ready and available again. Ah, nice to get home from work now. byebye y'all.
zzzaapp!

[mrebanza]

hmmm, you mean served on a linux host or a hosts? Perhaps. but the thought of many many more windows machines visiting theses hosts suggests a small ratio of linux to other..

You missed the point entirely . . . the internet runs on linux . . . not Mac OSX and Not Windows 7 . . . Linux . . . Regardless if you access Google from you Windows PC - Your Mac Book Pro Laptop - Your Iphone or iPad or Black Berry or Android Device or your N900 you would be able to use most of the web with out linux . . . just reading this message makes you a linux user whether you like it or not . . . If you use the web you are a linux user . . . Linux is the technology that powers the web and without it the internet would be pretty lame . . . Also may I point of that the trend is moving toward mobile web consumption . . . annalists predict that the mobile phone / device will surpass the desktop as a means of computer / web use by 2015 and who is dominating in these fields?

Android (Linux) and iPhone (Mac OSX) - And why are they dominating? Because they are faster, work better and more Efficiently than windows mobile and when you need battery life and as many resources as possible than these thing become increasingly more important than a winmo symbol
http://gigaom.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/mobile-chart2.png


http://gigaom.com/2010/04/12/mary-meeker-mobile-internet-will-soon-overtake-fixed-internet/

[mrebanza]

Linux also makes your internet speed faster . . . I have done tests in both Win7 and Ubuntu and Linux is on top EVERY TIME!!!!

Usually by close to DOUBLE!!!


While Windows 7 will only give me about 7 to 8 Mbps - Linux gives me anywhere from 12.5 to 15 Mbps!!!!


Dont believe me try it out for yourself!!!!

[roundyz]

You missed the point entirely . . . the internet runs on linux . . . not Mac OSX and Not Windows 7 . . . Linux . . . Regardless if you access Google from you Windows PC - Your Mac Book Pro Laptop - Your Iphone or iPad or Black Berry or Android Device or your N900 you would be able to use most of the web with out linux . . . just reading this message makes you a linux user whether you like it or not . . . If you use the web you are a linux user . . . Linux is the technology that powers the web and without it the internet would be pretty lame . . . Also may I point of that the trend is moving toward mobile web consumption . . . annalists predict that the mobile phone / device will surpass the desktop as a means of computer / web use by 2015 and who is dominating in these fields?

Android (Linux) and iPhone (Mac OSX) - And why are they dominating? Because they are faster, work better and more Efficiently than windows mobile and when you need battery life and as many resources as possible than these thing become increasingly more important than a winmo symbol
http://gigaom.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/mobile-chart2.png


http://gigaom.com/2010/04/12/mary-meeker-mobile-internet-will-soon-overtake-fixed-internet/

No. Linux is the kernel at the heart of the operating system. The web runs on the hypertext transfer protocol over mostly transmission control protocol/internet protocol.

Tell bsd server admins how lame the web content is they are serving without linux.

Analyst predictions in this case should be taken lightly, simply because there are tasks that are not possible through a mobile device that are with a computer, that are quite frequently done.

[danramos]

No. Linux is the kernel at the heart of the operating system. The web runs on the hypertext transfer protocol over mostly transmission control protocol/internet protocol.

Tell bsd server admins how lame the web content is they are serving without linux.

Analyst predictions in this case should be taken lightly, simply because there are tasks that are not possible through a mobile device that are with a computer, that are quite frequently done.

Fortunately, those servers appear to run faster and more reliably than the Windows servers. AND the interface, as you pointed out, seems to hamper nobody thanks to some agreed-upon STANDARDS providing the interface while the kernel chugs away under the hood as it should.

Point being--pretending that Linux is something so alien as to be unlearnable is incredible hogwash and probably the basis for most of the ills in online society today. That, and AOL, historically.

[fatalsaint]

I hate arguing Unix Vs Linux.. that's just silly. They are both fine, stable, workhorses and with modern technology are both perfect desktop OS's as well! (FreeBSD, anyone?)

*nix powers the web (google I believe has BSD servers as well, here). Windows pretends to power....... on. :p

[roundyz]

Back to the teaching of Linux in schools I think is wrong, like-wise with Windows. Students should be educated about the technology, then given a choice of vendor implementations to allow for the students to see which vendor does this the best to their liking. This way students know about the technology and are bias only on the merit of implementation and not on the raising of a vendor due to popularity, culture or any other excuse to sticking with a vendor.

@danramos Love the AOL comment.

[harp]

Believe it or not, for many people a computer is just another tool. Just like for many people cars are only tools. You wouldn't expect every car owner to be a mechanic. And you wouldn't expect every driver to drive a manual transmission. The auto transmission is easy and just works. When you try to teach these people to drive a manual, most will not enjoy the experience or see the point of learning it when you can get an automatic transmission.

People like simplicity and familiarity. People are resistant to change. Linux will not win the OS war unless the user friendliness is worked out fully. And don't tell me Ubuntu is already there, it's not there yet. People still have trouble using an iPhone.

[linuxaddict]

I cannot believe the ignorance of some people, i can relate from way back, years ago when i was using nimble x, the first Linux distro i ever used and just because it wasn't windows i was getting grief for it, i just couldn't believe how closed minded some people are.

[CrashandDie]

And you wouldn't expect every driver to drive a manual transmission. The auto transmission is easy and just works. When you try to teach these people to drive a manual, most will not enjoy the experience or see the point of learning it when you can get an automatic transmission.

Actually, in mainland Europe you'd be hard pushed to find any car that is automatic. Usually, automatics are for very high end cars (lambo, whatever), buses, or cars for handicapped people.

Only in the US and Australia are people really driving mostly auto. It's stupid, and I'm not really sure why. Well, I do, it's because of stupid decisions.

Wrong argument, you lose, try again?

People like simplicity and familiarity. People are resistant to change. Linux will not win the OS war unless the user friendliness is worked out fully. And don't tell me Ubuntu is already there, it's not there yet. People still have trouble using an iPhone.

Actually, people will learn just about anything, no matter how hard and complicated. Given sufficient time and necessity, they will go through it. Where you're right, though, is that people don't like change. Take 3 people who have never used a computer. Give them an Ubuntu, an OSX and a Windows 7 laptop. They will learn to use it in different ways, some more effective than others, whatever, but they will all be able to accomplish the same basic tasks.

Edit text, browse the web, chat with their buddies.

Stop being such bloody fanbois, who gives a *uck what people use. It's funny to see that most Linux fanbois are less tolerant than anyone else when it comes to Operating Systems. You rant the same stuff we've heard for the past 20 years, and yet not much has changed. The wanker who replied to that teacher is a fine example of whiny fanbois who can't take no for an answer.

Yes the teacher was wrong in saying that "Software can't be free", but she gave all the CDs back once she discovered her mistake. She didn't keep *****ing about it for decades. She learnt her lesson and moved on.

Seriously, get a girlfriend and get a life :)

[sebastian_ua]

can I use it along-side windows??
I know its not the point but I've only just go into this and so far I'm struggling.
Also is there any programming guide for dummies??

programming guide for dummies called University or College :)

[rohanhole]

Insaneeee.....

[harp]

I'm not arguing about our capability to learn as a species. It is the basis of our development. I'm talking about the inherent laziness that results from our intelligence. The lowest reaching fruit may not be the sweetest but it will be within the grasp of more people.