Reliability of the N800

[remjax]

After spending time searching this forum and reading the various reviews it like the Nokia N800 COULD replace my Dell X50v. It only needs better Video performance and USB Host capability to be complete.

Its larger screen will help my eyes but what is holding me up, besides a complete lack of linux knowledge, is the reports of screen problems and the random reboots. Since Nokia Service seems to be less than ideal I am wondering what is the chance of getting a bad unit? It seems to be high but I know a person usually only reports problems not sucess.:confused:

Also how hard is the N800 to figure out for the complete Newbe? Seems Nokia could take some lessons from MS and Apple in making a consistant user interface. It seems to be incomplete in many areas. ???

[schmots]

the interface itself is actually rather intuitive, based on its simplicity. Both a blessing and a curse.

My n800 has never actually crashed on me. I have had no hardware issues, or default software issues with mine what so ever.. all my problems are strictly user introduced.

[Sam Lowry]

remjax- you are less of a newbie than I, I hadn't used any sort of small electronic device (PDA-esque) before 2 days ago. It took me a bit to understand how things work on it, but I'm already getting the hang of it and I know nothing about Linux. I'm a WinXP guy. So far, no crashes, just me ignoring the "low battery" warnings, which of course means I have to wait while it charges. Hoping to customize it a bit and get the email set up today...
- SL

[schmots]

Sam, only running two days and already low battery warnings.. what are you doing man? Also whats your brightness at.. I run my at half all the time.

[Tabster]

Only had mine a few weeks but am enjoying it a lot.

Things it doesn't do that a PocketPC can are view/open MS Office documents. PDF is fine. Web browsing is great, Opera has a few issues. Hopefully the email app and video will be improved.

[remjax]

Thanks for the information folks.

I have started converting my .doc files to .rtf which solves one problem.

My most used programs I will havae to find replacement for are:

uBook (Ebook reader)-best one bar none! FBreader is getting there but not there yet.

Olivetree Bible reader - Has Esword been ported?

Mort player - lowest cpu time on my Dell & I like the interface.

Looks like I will me taking a closer look come Income tax refund time! Then I am sure I will have MORE questions!

[geneven]

I have had to reflash my n800 about 5 times to get out of a stalled system. Can someone give me an example of a user-caused crash? All I have done is installed availble programs and eventually run into problems.

I'm not complaining, but if no one else is occasionally having to reflash, how am I causing this?

[sapporobaby]

Hello remjax,

Welcome. The N800 is a pretty good piece of kit. It is not quite ready for the mass market but it is very useful. I have had mine for a few weeks, and have only once regretted the purchase and that was related more to this forum than anything else. Other than that you have a nice piece of gear that is for sure a conversation starter.:)

Install the apps: GizmoProject for one, and some of the other that are available and you will pretty much surprised at the functionality that is provided.

[Salidwyn]

Hello! I've had my n800 since about the middle of January and haven't
regretted it at all. Out of the box, it's very intuitive for a new user if you have
some basic computer knowledge. The web browsing experience is overall
enjoyable though opera does have a few shortcomings next to firefox. The
outdated version of flash hasn't been much of an issue for me but that can vary
depending on what sites you frequent personally. I was installing apps that had
.install files the second day of owning it (which are a really great way for
newbies to install apps and will be even better once more programs start
coming with these) and just learned how to install apps using repositories last
week thanks to all the great information on this forum.

I have had it lock up while I was on the road trying to find a wifi signal to look something up but that was fixed by taking the battery out, putting it back in, and turing it back on. That's not enough to bother me after using Windows since '95.

[TA-t3]

remjax: The 770 (or some of the units) had a hardware screen problem. The N800 doesn't. However, there are some (a few) reports about another type of screen problem, which isn't the actual LCD but instead a sensitivity problem with the digitizer (touch-screen) near the side of the display. Others will have a better idea of how many units we're talking about, e.g. Texrat. I've only seen my own unit, and the hardware is good in every way.

Edit: About random reboots: Yes, I've experienced them. But, they _only_ happen when the unit is idle.. I've never had any type of crash of the OS while using the unit. I use it a lot. But, occasionally when it's just sitting there, not connected to a network but possibly searching, I suddenly hear the Nokia jingle and it has rebooted. The cause of this is known by Nokia (it's a watchguard program that detects that the DSP doesn't respond, and decides to deliberately reboot the unit in a controlled fashion -- this is not a 'crash and burn' thing). Presumably they have a fix too, in the near future.
But, as it only happens when it's idle.. it's never impacted my use of the N800. Then there's also a case of timed reboots around midnight or something like that, this is caused by the alarm system having somehow gotten an entry which tells it
to do so (a calendar event, if you want). I haven't seen this. In any case it's easy to fix.

[axzr]

After spending time searching this forum and reading the various reviews it like the Nokia N800 COULD replace my Dell X50v. It only needs better Video performance and USB Host capability to be complete.

Its larger screen will help my eyes but what is holding me up, besides a complete lack of linux knowledge, is the reports of screen problems and the random reboots. Since Nokia Service seems to be less than ideal I am wondering what is the chance of getting a bad unit? It seems to be high but I know a person usually only reports problems not sucess.:confused:

Also how hard is the N800 to figure out for the complete Newbe? Seems Nokia could take some lessons from MS and Apple in making a consistant user interface. It seems to be incomplete in many areas. ???

I'm pretty much a newbie to this neck of the woods. I bought a n800 to be a x50v replacement. So far, I think the only thing really holding me back is internet access via USB to a PC. Which I think you can do, I've just not figured it out yet.

[denise118]

I'm pretty much a newbie to this neck of the woods. I bought a n800 to be a x50v replacement. So far, I think the only thing really holding me back is internet access via USB to a PC. Which I think you can do, I've just not figured it out yet.

The N800 has wifi-capability so I don't think the USB connectivity would be necessary. If you have wireless networks in your range, you can click on the globe in the upper right hand corner, select connection and connect.

[Zhe]

Its larger screen will help my eyes but what is holding me up, besides a complete lack of linux knowledge, is the reports of screen problems and the random reboots. Since Nokia Service seems to be less than ideal I am wondering what is the chance of getting a bad unit? It seems to be high but I know a person usually only reports problems not sucess.:confused:

Also how hard is the N800 to figure out for the complete Newbe? Seems Nokia could take some lessons from MS and Apple in making a consistant user interface. It seems to be incomplete in many areas. ???

I've had my n800 for about 10 days, and I'm keeping it. :-)

The likelihood of getting a bad unit is anybody's guess. Mine exhibits pretty good build quality. Some screen shadowing, a minor annoyance, is the only obvious deficiency. It's only visible on white screens and under some lighting conditions. As you've no doubt read here, this is an issue with the current screen technology.

To be honest, though, I'm avoiding adding RSS newsfeeds to the borked reader. Even the Nokia team admits it needs to be rewritten.

So that's two small strikes, one of which is fixable and the other tolerable. You mentioned the notorious video performance, too, which we've heard will improve. This is a serious deficiency. I watched an hour-long mpeg and the performance was barely acceptable, as long as I didn't go full screen which caused intermittent freezes. By most reports, the email client is crummy.

The fact is the n800 does a few key things superbly and that is quite enough for me. I surf, do email (through a web client), and read ebooks. Using FBReader is a delight, and in rendering quality the n800 puts to shame my faithful aging Ebookwise/GEB 1150 while offering text as clean as Sony's e-ink machine.

As for Linux, I'm a newbie learning as I go along. That's half the fun, isn't it? In truth, you need no Linux at all to get started. Some software can be installed quickly and easily, while other packages need you to identify a repository. In some cases this means installing separate libraries if you want to get something like the very good Evince reader running. That sounds more daunting than it turns out to be. Installing the libraries for Evince (which displays comics) took me about 15 minutes of searching this forum and making one or two tries, not such a burden, eh?

Learning the n800 interface is child's play. Yes, it's got idiosyncrasies, but it isn't nearly as problematic as some purists have argued. I was impressed by the Newton developer's blast at the Nokia GUI--and he makes many good points--until I got my hands on the n800 and found it plenty practicable. As for taking interface lessons from MS, good lord. Happily Nokia hasn't. ;-)

My chief interface complaint is the physical rocker buttons on the top. They're too small, too tightly spaced and require fussy manipulation. They should be redesigned. The front panel buttons are much better.

I give the device an A- for web browsing, B+ for overall design, and a C- for overall execution (mainly because it's broken in some advertised areas). That said, it's usable and enjoyable today.

[Mika73]

I like my N800 too.. :)

But I wouldnt give A for Opera browser, course I have had some problems with it. Sometimes add bookmark doesnt work and it does open window that doesnt accept any buttons you press and then you get bookmark called null. Also I have had some problems with flash, everyone knows that old flash version doesnt work so well, but also sometimes I have got window that cant be closed. Something that says that.. Wait it could have been Java window, but anyway that.. its running script that can make your computer slow.. Keep running it or cancel.. After I did try cancel it wouldnt close anymore.
Also sometimes Opera browser doesnt just load pages, it just stops middle of loading and usually refresh helps.

Havent had problems with RSS reader.. Whats wrong with that?

Anyway.. N800 is great :)

[hircus]

Personally, I've had the 770 RSS reader filling up the entire internal Flash partition once. It hasn't happened on the N800, though.

The e-mail client is slated to be rewritten; the new client will be built on top of tinymail, which is a super-slimmed down libcamel, the e-mailing backend of Evolution. Hopefully we get it soon!

[geneven]

I have had 0 problems with the RSS reader. I'm using my N800 in a Nevada library as I type and really feel like an elite user -- no bulky laptop for me! Still, for the normal user I would have to take some points off because Linux is the basis of the environment. Sure, fanarics like me use and like it, but many users wouldn't like to abandon some of their favorite programs or sites to use Linux, not to mention the problems they might have to deal with.

[schmots]

.... Your not missing out on websites because its Linux. Linux is just the kernel.. the brain of the OS. Your missing some websites because they run java and this version of the opera browser doesn't support it. its not a linux problem.

[axzr]

The N800 has wifi-capability so I don't think the USB connectivity would be necessary. If you have wireless networks in your range, you can click on the globe in the upper right hand corner, select connection and connect.

Yeah, I have WiFi access at home and often on the move, but not at work. To be a full replacement for my PDA I need (free) internet access on the device during the day.

[wodin]

After spending time searching this forum and reading the various reviews it like the Nokia N800 COULD replace my Dell X50v. It only needs better Video performance and USB Host capability to be complete.
My PDA is a Samsung SCH i730 PDA phone running Windows Mobile 5.0. I wirelessly syncs, through the cell phone to my MS Outlook syncing email, calander, ToDo, files etc. It also has limited ability to read/edit MS Office files.

In order for Marvin (Named after the paranoid robot in Hitchhiker’s Guide) to replace my PDA he would have to be able to do all these things. Granted that the hardware (tethered to a cell phone with Bluetooth) is probably capable of doing all that, but so far the open source community has not been able to come up with the necessary software.

From reading posts here and at Maemo, these shortcomings are well known, and someone is probably working on some or all of them, but until then Marvin remains a high tech toy.

[sondjata]

I like my N800. haven't had problems with the RSS reader. The lack of a current version of flash is a problem for some sites but not most of the ones I go to. some AJAX sites wont work but Minimo got me through that. The lack of codec support is annoying and Mplayer apparently wont take a stream from twonkymedia. But that may be a Mplayer issue and not a Nokia issue. The calendar program appears to be able to subscribe to online calendars so i'm thinking I could use that to sync with my local Mac BUT being unable to sync with my Mac PIM is a growing problem and keeps me using my wrist PDA.

Installing Gizmo has opened up possibilities but so long as I have to deal with a phone plan for the land line, it's real usefulness is limited as I'm not paying yet another company for phone service.

Maemo Mapper is also coming in quite useful and has helped me find places (and parking in NYC) and having the map in my hand has proven very valuable.

Like Wotin said, it's still a high tech toy, but I foresee it becoming more than that if a PIM syncing app finds it's way to the platform.

On a side note, this thing has shown me the disturbing number of people who have wide open WIFI out there. Scary.

[sondjata]

Oh,

and if anything, this product WOULD definitely warm me to an iPhone.

[Texrat]

After spending time searching this forum and reading the various reviews it like the Nokia N800 COULD replace my Dell X50v. It only needs better Video performance and USB Host capability to be complete.

Its larger screen will help my eyes but what is holding me up, besides a complete lack of linux knowledge, is the reports of screen problems and the random reboots. Since Nokia Service seems to be less than ideal I am wondering what is the chance of getting a bad unit? It seems to be high but I know a person usually only reports problems not sucess.:confused:

Also how hard is the N800 to figure out for the complete Newbe? Seems Nokia could take some lessons from MS and Apple in making a consistant user interface. It seems to be incomplete in many areas. ???

The more serious problems are extremely rare. I have 95% confidence any random purchaser will not experience them (sorry, can't divulge the details!). They only seem more prevalent than they really are here due to the nature of this forum.

The device isn't hard to figure out-- for general use. It gets progressively more difficult the deeper you get into usability that isn't readily available. However, you will find this forum a valuable resource there.

[hircus]

I spoke too soon in vouching for the RSS reader. Under some circumstances, the cache gets corrupted and it would lock the device up (triggering automatic reboot), until you remove the cache manually.

[euchreprof]

How did you remove the cache manually?

[einstein]

I have just picked up a N800 and I have no reboots and no screen problems.
The device works as promised, but feels a bit 'unfinished'. Streaming audio/video is 90% NOT working (trust me, I've tried) and the device itself is not 100% stable yet. But firmware updates may improve these problems.
The biggest let-down to me personally is the unfunctional videoconferencing. Google Talk? Don't think so. Jabber? Don't think so either. Skype? Where?

I really like the N800, but it's still in beta in my opinion. I think Nokia rushed it because of all the other gadgets (like iPhone) being released. The N800 got great potential though.

[Karel Jansens]

I have just picked up a N800 and I have no reboots and no screen problems.
The device works as promised, but feels a bit 'unfinished'. Streaming audio/video is 90% NOT working (trust me, I've tried) and the device itself is not 100% stable yet. But firmware updates may improve these problems.
The biggest let-down to me personally is the unfunctional videoconferencing. Google Talk? Don't think so. Jabber? Don't think so either. Skype? Where?

I really like the N800, but it's still in beta in my opinion. I think Nokia rushed it because of all the other gadgets (like iPhone) being released. The N800 got great potential though.

It is quite common and acceptable in Open Source to release beta-quality software and rely heavily on the feedback of users.

So, congratulations! you're a N800 beta-tester. Welcome to the fold. Resistence is futile, etc...

[Texrat]

Nokia didn't rush the N800 due to the iPhone; they're not really in the same device space. Nokia's intent was to gain the early foothold into the wifi-enabled internet device space.

Yes, there are certainly some gaps, and they're being addressed. Just hang tight where missing functionality is concerned, and enjoy the other functions!

[einstein]

Hmm, maybe my post sounded a little negative. Not my intention.
I like the N800 a lot, I really do. But I feel that, when polished, it could be great. Browsing is neat, but could be better. Wifi reception is very good.
The screen is brilliant in every way, the resolution just about perfect. The zooming function is very good and smooth.
The camera is next to useless now. I don't get that. And streaming doesn't work at all. Don't get that either.

Overall, at this point: Nice gadget. Nothing more, nothing less. And yes, I enjoy that. But don't wait too long with the fixes...

[phi]

ha, einstein, all your sentiments were echoed a year ago with the n770 and the fix was to issue the n800! :D

[einstein]

lol@Phi

Well yeah, I agree. But the 770 was to slow to be useful. The N800 has greater potential. (I hope...)
I'll keep my fingers crossed.

[einstein]

Well, after spending some time with the N800, I can't be anything but dissapointed.

Battery life: bad. The battery sometimes discharges itself when the device is supposed to be off.

Streaming audio/video: not working 99% of the time

Videoconferencing: not working

Videoplayback: 99% 'no codec' error

Browser crashes randomly 3-4 times per hour

This device isn't finished and the new firmware doesn't solve any of these problems.
If you're stil in doubt of buying a N800: don't. You can do better things with your money. I am sorry I bought mine.

[sapporobaby]

Einstein, I agree with you 100000%. This is a device is no where near ready from prime time or even play time. What kind of device is it when it gets stuck in a loop rebooting and rebooting and rebooting, and the only way to fix it is to put in a Linux disk? This makes no sense at all. I could be wrong but many of those working on developing software for this device do not pay the full price that we non-developers pay retail. I have spent many days reading this forum and seeing what is written about this thing. For the most part is it not a device meant for the average Joe. It is a nice gizmo, early adopter plaything, but not really practical in any way. There is no syncing software, the video works sometimes (better now than before), the battery is well moving right along. In short this is an barely finished device that will appeal more to the developer side of the house. Nokia screwed the pooh with this device. Mine will go in the draw and sit there until maybe some apps come out to make this a more usable device.

[Karel Jansens]

Any of you want to sell your N800? And for what price?

Mind you, after your damning criticisms, I'm not going to pay you even close to full price. After all, you both claim it's basically worthless...

[sapporobaby]

Goes in the draw. Thanks for the offer. Luckily I make enough money to throw it away on stuff like this.

Didn't mean to sound smug. Luckily working for the govt allows me to get things to test and demo for the govt. I was going to hook up SE with a nice contract until they said that they will not support Mac. The US Navy just bought a bunch of Mac servers and laptops and wanted to use SE phones (1000 to start), but SE said they do not care and won't support them. Needless to say, Nokia got my recommendation.

[einstein]

@Karel

Value is never based on opinion. So thanks, but no thanks.
Mine is going in the box it came in. Maybe I can make somebody happy with it, I also don't really need the money.

I don't like umpc's and I don't like this thing. Looks like I'm stuck with my Thinkpad T60 again.

[Karel Jansens]

Dang! I could have used a second one...

[einstein]

Lol! What would you do with two N800's?

[Karel Jansens]

Lol! What would you do with two N800's?

Why, one for the couch and one for the road, obviously. My 770 is now permanently shacked up in my bedroom where it serves light duty as a very nice ebook reader.

[penguinbait]

No offense guys, but maybe you should read about a device before you purchase. It all depends on what you want to do with the device. If you did not know what you were buying, and how it worked, its probably a sure thing that most products you buy would not make you happy. It seems to me you need to put a little blame on yourself if you purchased something that does not work for your purposes. The 770 is a well documented platform, if you were fooled by the fancy packaging on the n800, this seems like its your issue. I have some nice waterfront property for sale in florida if you are interested. I had a 21 day return policy at Compusa, which was plenty of time to evaluate the device and determine if it fits your needs. So forgive me if I do not feel sorry for you making bad decisions. Would you buy a car without a test drive? Would you marry a virgin? Not I :cool:

Sorry if it seems a bit harsh, I had a 770 for a year, and I am very happy with the n800. Personally I think if you are not a linux savy person, you should probably not purchase the 770 or n800 unless it works for you as is, you can't count on possible software or firmware releases in the future will make it so you like the device. I agree you wasted your money, just not sure Nokia is completely at fault, a little of that blame falls on your shoulders!


Take note, you don't often see me defending Nokia :)

[sapporobaby]

@penguinbait,

I did not ask for your pity or that of anyone here in this forum. I am simply stating a fact about a device that Nokia is marketing as a finished product, ready from mass market up take, but which is actually suited for developers, in terms of availability and price. As for it being Linux, or Palm, or Windows Mobile, I could not care less. I only want functionality and not to have to load a Linux disk because a Nokia product is having a bad day and can not be fixed even by reformatting the device. For this I do blame Nokia. They made the OS, and bear the the responsibility for the good and the bad. They got paid for it. I didn't bounce a check to them, or say come back with I have Euro Version 2.0. I know that devices need upgrades and have quirks. I was prepared to live with this, but at retail prices, I feel that I am not getting what I paid for.

The N800 is well suited to be a practical device but in terms of software, and the everyday things that most people would need it for, it is lacking. If you can't see that I can recommend a good eye doctor to you. As for a 21 day return policy. Great to have but some of us live in Europe, me in Finland, and I don't have this policy. Another moot point.

As I said, I will put my N800 in a draw, continue to read these forums and see if any advances have been made that would make this a device that is more appealing to those that aren't developers.

[penguinbait]

@penguinbait,

I did not ask for your pity or that of anyone here in this forum. I am simply stating a fact about a device that Nokia is marketing as a finished product, ready from mass market up take, but which is actually suited for developers, in terms of availability and price. As for it being Linux, or Palm, or Windows Mobile, I could not care less. I only want functionality and not to have to load a Linux disk because a Nokia product is having a bad day and can not be fixed even by reformatting the device. For this I do blame Nokia. They made the OS, and bear the the responsibility for the good and the bad. They got paid for it. I didn't bounce a check to them, or say come back with I have Euro Version 2.0. I know that devices need upgrades and have quirks. I was prepared to live with this, but at retail prices, I feel that I am not getting what I paid for.

The N800 is well suited to be a practical device but in terms of software, and the everyday things that most people would need it for, it is lacking. If you can't see that I can recommend a good eye doctor to you. As for a 21 day return policy. Great to have but some of us live in Europe, me in Finland, and I don't have this policy. Another moot point.

As I said, I will put my N800 in a draw, continue to read these forums and see if any advances have been made that would make this a device that is more appealing to those that aren't developers.


If you do not care if it is linux or palm or whatever why did you buy the n800? There are tons of devices out there, This is only device of its kind out there? You compare it to things that are not the same. It is not a palm, its not an organizer. Its not windows mobile, nor did it ever intend to be. It is not a UMPC, it is a "internet tablet". I agree that the email client sucks, I agree, that the web experience is not the best. These things can be determined in minutes, so again, I am unsure what exactly you thought you were getting? The fact that you are upset about syncing software to me verifys the fact you purchased the wrong product. It is a device that is targeted at keeping you in touch. It keeps me in touch with what I want to use it for. Again if you do not like it, I still think you should have mailed it back and gotten your money back. I purchased a phone from Nokia direct and kept it 2 days and mailed it back because I did not like it. You are the master of your destiny. I am not a developer, I could not code hello world, but I can read, and I have a very good understanding of computers and Linux. I was not trying to dump on you, but merely point out that you should put a little more effort into determining what you purchase and verify it will meet your needs. If like you say you make enough money to not worry about it, I can not understand why you are so upset about your mistake, and perhaps maybe invest a little more next time and get a umpc.

[sapporobaby]

@penguinbait,

Good post but let's forget the "send it back" stuff, as I said, I live in Finland and that does not fly.

However, I did do some research on the device and the flaws are not actually apparent until you hold the device in your hand and start to use it. Then the flaws come screaming to the foreground. Anyway, it is okay. I lived, I learned. No worries.

BTW, the reason I have money, is because I seldom waste it. This was not actually a waste, but I could see myself buying it maybe 6 months from now when it is a bit more mature and more applications are there for it.

[Milhouse]

I would also dispute the assertion that Internet Tablets (770 & N800) are "designed for developers" as that's not true at all.

Internet Tablets will work - mostly - out of the box as designed, but if you want to get the best out of them you need to put the time in and learn a few basic skills, however you don't need to be a programmer/developer - just someone willing to put in the required effort (reading, learning and do-ing - having a PC available with Linux or a LiveCD is handy too!)

Internet Tablets are not unlike Windows Mobile devices in this regard as even Windows Mobile expects you to learn an awful lot of cr@p about obscure apps/shareware that you need to download in order to get the full benefits out of the crippled OS. However with the Internet Tablets you can do an awful lot more hacking *yourself* than you ever can on a Windows Mobile device. For some, this means Internet Tablets are more fun, while for others it's too much like hard work and may put them off entirely (which is totally understandable).

[einstein]

@Penguinbait:

1st, we don't have a return policy here. 2nd, I purchased the device as an quick-online-web-checking kind of a thing were a laptop would be to much trouble. I've read quite a few reviews before deciding to buy one. That's the reason I didn't buy an N770 in the first place! And thats's why I said I was dissappointed. It's not the 'quick-online bla bla' thing I thought it would be.
I am a bit of a gadget freak, I have a lot of them lying around. Most of them work as designed/marketed, but the N800 clearly does not. My girlfriend for instance cannot use the device like it's suppose to:

"It says: Internet Browser closed unexpectedly, did I do something wrong"? No dear, you have to start it up again, and try again. Eventually it'll work. I think...

"It says: Weather updating. But I can't start anything."
Oh, just power cycle it, that's normal...

etc etc

Sorry, but that's not a market ready device. She won't even touch it now and starts up the laptop instead.

Tweaking/hacking the device won't cure problems like that.
As for the device being Linux: the problem here is stability. That has nothing to do with the OS at all. I hate Windows Mobile, and yet, it always does what I expect it to do. It doesn't crash/hang/freeze/reboot/bad touch screen on me. Ever. Like my (antique) Palm, my gameboy, my celular phone, my calculator and a lot more portable devices. They are flawed, but work as aspected.

This thing isn't stable. Not even close. Period. Don't start discussing wether or not I should've bought it in the first place, that's not the point here.

I agree: new users should test this device. A good device sells itself. A bad device doesn't.

[sapporobaby]

I would also dispute the assertion that Internet Tablets (770 & N800) are "designed for developers" as that's not true at all.

We have to agree to disagree. This is by no means a finished product and anyone reading this site for the first or second time will see that for the most part only developers are here in mass.

Internet Tablets will work - mostly - out of the box as designed, but if you want to get the best out of them you need to put the time in and learn a few basic skills, however you don't need to be a programmer/developer - just someone willing to put in the required effort (reading, learning and do-ing - having a PC available with Linux or a LiveCD is handy too!)

Exactly. How many users happen to have a PC with Linux or a LiveCD laying around just waiting to be put to use working on an N800. That made little or no sense. I will say I have learned some skills from the time I put in. I can reboot, remove the battery and take mine back to Nokia for a new one with the best of them.

Internet Tablets are not unlike Windows Mobile devices in this regard as even Windows Mobile expects you to learn an awful lot of cr@p about obscure apps/shareware that you need to download in order to get the full benefits out of the crippled OS. However with the Internet Tablets you can do an awful lot more hacking *yourself* than you ever can on a Windows Mobile device. For some, this means Internet Tablets are more fun, while for others it's too much like hard work and may put them off entirely (which is totally understandable).

I would be willing to bet that most people that purchase these devices @ retail prices are looking for a device that works out of the box, minus the fun part of hacking. I know for me, and speaking only for myself, that I just want it to do what I need it to do. I could not care more about hacking and having unfinished software, or buggy software, or software that crashes my device. In regards to this product, I just want it to work. If I need to play with things, I have an Xbox, a couple Macs, some cameras, etc.... You are quite correct though in stating that it can be like hard work. Luckily for me, someone was kind enough to help me install some things and to make my experience a bit more enjoyable, but all in all I wish I had kept my money and bought a new lens or something.

[geneven]

It is a cliche that users who want a guarantee that their product will be stable don't buy an early version. This was commonplace knowledge back in the days of Windows 98, let alone now. I cannot count the number of people who have pointed that out over the years.

After the latest upgrade I find my N800 to be quite stable and useful.

I am not a developer.

[einstein]

...but all in all I wish I had kept my money and bought a new lens or something.

I'll second that.

(I won't react to "you stupid early adopter, you"-like remarks as I have pointed my opinion out already.)

[THX1138]

I'm not a developer, and I'm a Linux newbie but so far my N800 experience has been positive. Maybe I'm just lucky, but mine has been 99% stable with the factory installed firmware (It randomly rebooted once when I left GAIM running one time) and haven't had any issues with the latest firmware so far. I agree that it isn't as polished as it could be, but web browsing is much better than any WinMo device I have used. I would try the latest firmware and see if that fixes your reliability problems. If you don't want to take the time to download a Linux live cd to install the firmware, then don't and use the Windows installer they just released (http://europe.nokia.com/A4305010). I don't know how well that installer works as I actually wanted to use the Linux flasher to learn how to use the terminal in Linux. Took about a minute to flash the device after downloading the latest firmware.

I have these apps installed on mine and most of them work fine:

Canola
Maemo Mapper
Kismet (a little buggy)
Aircrack-ng (a little buggy)
GPE Suite
Maemo Periodic
GAIM
FBReader
FM Radio
OMWeather
Load Applet
Xterm
Minimo (buggy)
Midnight Commander
MPlayer (a little buggy)
Maemo Stars
Maemo Recorder
MaemopadPlus

Prior to owning my N800 I had practically zero Linux experience as I have been mainly a Windows guy. I haven't had any major issues with installing/configuring things, then again I'm willing to put a little time into reading the instructions/ and or guidance of people on this forum. As a gadget lover myself I am amazed at the potential this device has. Name a WinMo device that can support 2 SDHC cards (albeit with a custom kernel right now), has the wireless sensitivity the N800 has, and the battery life. If they ever get USB OTG working I'll be in heaven as I can forget lugging my laptop around to backup pictures from DSLR's memory cards. With 32GB SDHC cards expected to arrive later this year I will have 64GBs of drive space in the palm of my hand and probably double that a year later.

[Milhouse]

My girlfriend for instance cannot use the device like it's suppose to:

"It says: Internet Browser closed unexpectedly, did I do something wrong"? No dear, you have to start it up again, and try again. Eventually it'll work. I think...

"It says: Weather updating. But I can't start anything."
Oh, just power cycle it, that's normal...

etc etc

Sorry, but that's not a market ready device. She won't even touch it now and starts up the laptop instead.



I just want to point out that you seem to be blaming Nokia for the flaws in a third-party application. The Weather app you refer to (OMWeather, for example, is known to be somewhat buggy) is not Nokias responsibility - you agreed to this when you accepted the dialog prior to installing the app. The browser on the other had *is* Nokias responsibility, but I actually find it quite stable.

[Milhouse]

anyone reading this site for the first or second time will see that for the most part only developers are here in mass.


Utter b0llox!


How many users happen to have a PC with Linux or a LiveCD laying around just waiting to be put to use working on an N800.


I imagine most (but certainly not all) will have a PC or compatible and to download a LiveCD is not a big deal - that requirement is no different to Windows Mobile where a PC is mandatory to install pretty much ALL software! That's why I said users need to put in some effort - if you're not willing to put in even a little effort to download a 50Mb ISO and burn it to a CD then the N800 is NOT for you. Stick to a Sony PSP, Nintendo DS or Windows Mobile.

I would be willing to bet that most people that purchase these devices @ retail prices are looking for a device that works out of the box, minus the fun part of hacking.

If you don't want to hack - and no one is forcing you - then I believe the N800 *does* work out of the box for general web surfing, it's raison d'etre. Yes, RSS and email are cr@p, and the reboot loops should now be fixed with the latest firmware. And if you install any additional non-Nokia software on the N800 and experience problems, simply reflash (Windows or Linux) and go back to the Nokia provided out-of-box experience - Nokia are not responsible if you install buggy software.

I repeat, if you lack even the most basic computing skills and are incapable of learning then the N800 is not for you.


but all in all I wish I had kept my money and bought a new lens or something.

+1 vote :)

[Karel Jansens]

(reading, learning and do-ing - having a PC available with Linux or a LiveCD is handy too!)

Just chiming in, me being the crack-pot developer an'all ;) : You don't even need a live CD. A copy of Vmware Player and the default Ubuntu image will do nicely. No need even to shut down the pc.

[Texrat]

@Penguinbait:

1st, we don't have a return policy here. 2nd, I purchased the device as an quick-online-web-checking kind of a thing were a laptop would be to much trouble. I've read quite a few reviews before deciding to buy one. That's the reason I didn't buy an N770 in the first place! And thats's why I said I was dissappointed. It's not the 'quick-online bla bla' thing I thought it would be.
I am a bit of a gadget freak, I have a lot of them lying around. Most of them work as designed/marketed, but the N800 clearly does not. My girlfriend for instance cannot use the device like it's suppose to:

"It says: Internet Browser closed unexpectedly, did I do something wrong"? No dear, you have to start it up again, and try again. Eventually it'll work. I think...

"It says: Weather updating. But I can't start anything."
Oh, just power cycle it, that's normal...

etc etc

Sorry, but that's not a market ready device. She won't even touch it now and starts up the laptop instead.

Tweaking/hacking the device won't cure problems like that.
As for the device being Linux: the problem here is stability. That has nothing to do with the OS at all. I hate Windows Mobile, and yet, it always does what I expect it to do. It doesn't crash/hang/freeze/reboot/bad touch screen on me. Ever. Like my (antique) Palm, my gameboy, my celular phone, my calculator and a lot more portable devices. They are flawed, but work as aspected.

This thing isn't stable. Not even close. Period. Don't start discussing wether or not I should've bought it in the first place, that's not the point here.

I agree: new users should test this device. A good device sells itself. A bad device doesn't.

I understand and agree with much of the frustration here. However, many of the counterpoints have validity too. Your statement that the N800 is "never" stable is just flat wrong. It is far too subjective a remark to be cast out that broadly.

Nokia is feeling out this market, and has certainly made some unfortunate missteps. However, there is also a significant good faith effort being out into rectifying shortcomings. There will be more going forward. There will be more hits, and more misses.

Anyone who has ever been an early adopter understands these things. You made a choice to be an early adopter, and that requires research on your part rather than leaping into a purchase you may not be ready for. I'm not trying to be harsh, just stating objective reality. I can sympathize with you on specific issues, such as what app was broken by what OS update, but I cannot sympathize with your broad rant. If the device doesn't seem ready for you, then you were not ready for the device. That's how it goes in the early stages.

If the next iteration garners the same reaction, then I will concede you have a point-- but I believe Nokia is learning from this experience.

I strongly suggest to the general public that everyone perform due diligence before making this sort of investment. There are certainly enough formal reviews, and definitely enough info here in this forum to aid potential purchasers in making an informed decision. Google is your friend. Take advantage of it.

[einstein]

The point was and is: the device is flawed and some of us think that that's not something you might expect from a €400,- device.
And that's something you agree to or not. But why people start discussions in this thread about 50Mb's ISO's I can't understand.

[einstein]

I understand and agree with much of the frustration here. However, many of the counterpoints have validity too. Your statement that the N800 is "never" stable is just flat wrong. It is far too subjective a remark to be cast out that broadly.

Agreed. Well, the device is marketed as an Internet Tablet. So it's 'core business' is Internet browsing. Let me rectify my broad remark a bit then:

The Internet browsing on the N800 can't be called stable.

Would be buyers should try one before they make the purchase. Like I said, a good device sells itself. That's not a rant but quite reasonable I think.

[sapporobaby]

The point was and is: the device is flawed and some of us think that that's not something you might expect from a €400,- device.


My point exactly. How many of you developers out there paid the full retail price for the N800? I would guess not many, however those that do expect a bit more. Since I have had my new N800 (my second), and after upgrading. It has rebooted itself once while watching a video. Now I am wondering, was it the video that caused this, was it the upgraded software, was it the moon streaking across the sky, or sea tides. No idea. The thing is, for the money, more is expected.

[Milhouse]

The point was and is: the device is flawed and some of us think that that's not something you might expect from a €400,- device.
And that's something you agree to or not. But why people start discussions in this thread about 50Mb's ISO's I can't understand.

As Texrat said - it's an early adopter device, something you would have discovered had you investigated prior to purchase. The fact you are not willing to accept it as such suggests you are not an ideal candidate for an early adopter device - your mistake. The device is not perfect, but not entirely flawed either - but then if you were expecting a perfect device you'll be lucky to find that from any manufacturer.

As for the 50MB ISOs... sigh.

[Milhouse]

My point exactly. How many of you developers out there paid the full retail price for the N800? I would guess not many, however those that do expect a bit more. Since I have had my new N800 (my second), and after upgrading. It has rebooted itself once while watching a video. Now I am wondering, was it the video that caused this, was it the upgraded software, was it the moon streaking across the sky, or sea tides. No idea. The thing is, for the money, more is expected.

That "developer" chip you have on your shoulder must be causing you considerable mobility problems.

[Texrat]

Agreed. Well, the device is marketed as an Internet Tablet. So it's 'core business' is Internet browsing. Let me rectify my broad remark a bit then:

The Internet browsing on the N800 can't be called stable.

Would be buyers should try one before they make the purchase. Like I said, a good device sells itself. That's not a rant but quite reasonable I think.

As I pointed out to Karel a while back (and received his wrath for it :D) that's still at least somewhat subjective. I've had some other functionality and stability issues but my internet experience has been almost flawless IF the novel stuff is ruled out (java, Flash 9, etc). Yes, I realize those are mainstream tools but I shouldn't need to deal with them for the bulk of my internet use, and don't. I can live without Youtube on my tablet. Easily. In fact, there's only one website that currently frustrates me and that's www.wellsfargo.com, since it depends on java. So until that changes I'll do my banking on my desktop PC and use the tablet for everything else-- including ebay, cnn, my investment broker, the occasional food recipe, google, instant messaging and of course this forum. ;)

[Texrat]

That "developer" chip you have on your shoulder must be causing you considerable mobility problems.

:D ROFL!

Mil, that was one of the wittiest snaps I've seen on this forum.

[sapporobaby]

That "developer" chip you have on your shoulder must be causing you considerable mobility problems.



I get around quite fine. In fact I work with developers everyday and I don't have to change their diapers at all. Hmmmm......maybe they are more mature........Anyway, as my question went unanswered, it is possible to assume that I am correct in my statement. Game, set, match.

Second, before I bought the Holy Grail of Tablets, I did do research. Read reviews, talked to people that have it. The reviewers maybe didn't play with it long enough to have to send theirs back. Something to make note of next time, "how long did you have it".

Anyway, this is going round and round. You have your opinion, and I have mine. Who cares? The only way to be proven right will be determined by the units shipped an the revenue generated.

[remjax]

Since I started this little bit of entertainment maybe I can "end" it.

I bought the N800 last Friday. After using it for the weekend and Flashing the new software I can understand both sides.

Coming from a Windows background and having owned a Windows PDA for the past few years I can already see that the unit is not as finished as "Windows Mobile" is. Of course that PDA software went through 4 or 5 different builds, each one requiring the user to buy another unit before getting to the current version. Upgrades never did work right, which is why I am willing to change.

I hope Nokia will NOT continue that practice but will develop this product into a finished product. I see that the Linux undercarrage is more complex than needed, Linux Geeks aside, ie it took a lot of searching to even fine where the storage cards were.

The N800 has a lot of promise that I am hoping will be fullfilled. If so the money will be well spent, if not, then my current worry of mis-spent finances will come back to haunt me.

To the group of developers the unit is probablely great, offering a NEW device to play with. I am very thankful for the FREE software that is offered, and try to be patient and understanding of each author that uses his spare time to write usable software.

The file system seems to be the hardest to understand for me and I can understand how a new user would just throw up his hands and woe the day they bought the N800. The many different ways software can (or must) be added and which libraries MUST be added first, overwelm me.

I see that NOOBIE's like me need more appreciation of the developers, and in turn the developers need more understanding of those of us that just want a useable unit and don't program ourselfs.

We all spend our money and take our chances. Now I need to find a good Bible reader and figure out how to load it, and hope VLC, Mortplayer, and uBook will be ported over!:D

[Texrat]

Excellent post remjax. I think your faith will be rewarded. ;)

[sapporobaby]

We all spend our money and take our chances. Now I need to find a good Bible reader and figure out how to load it, and hope VLC, Mortplayer, and uBook will be ported over!:D


I think I saw a Bible reader available. Sorry but I can not remember the link. If I find it, I will forward it to you.

[Karel Jansens]

As I pointed out to Karel a while back (and received his wrath for it :D)

Dude, if you think that was my wrath, you'll be in for a nasty surprise the day I get angry with you. (and may that day be in the far, far future, when pigs fly, with friggin' lasers) :cool:

I still think that calling something an "Internet Tablet", immediately followed by: "... but obviously it doesn't do the novelty stuff", and then calling everything internet-ish the tablet doesn't do "novelty", is not entirely kosher.

[penguinbait]

OMG!!!

We have all made purchases we regret. Again while some of the points you are making have inklings of truth, you need to understand that some people are/were dying to get their hands on a linux device, and while you would like to see it dummied down, others enjoy the complexity (if you choose to call it that). I prefer to call it flexibility. I enjoy being able to run an OS that I can alter down to the core, and get it to do exactly what I want. I dreamed of the day when I would purchase a Zaurus and was extremely happy when the n770 was born. While I understand your perspective, you need to understand, that while you need to warn people of your mistake and tell them not to make the same one, you also need to recognize that lots of other people are happy with thier purchases, and happy with Nokia for the most part. And not make blanket remarks about the device as a whole, while you clearly do not understand it.

[SeRi@lDiE]

Excellent post remjax. I think your faith will be rewarded. ;)

I second that!
Nice post and a good way to end it!

[Texrat]

Dude, if you think that was my wrath, you'll be in for a nasty surprise the day I get angry with you. (and may that day be in the far, far future, when pigs fly, with friggin' lasers) :cool:

I still think that calling something an "Internet Tablet", immediately followed by: "... but obviously it doesn't do the novelty stuff", and then calling everything internet-ish the tablet doesn't do "novelty", is not entirely kosher.

Hey, we're all entitled to our opinions. ;) But, in all seriousness, you've misconstrued what I said, Karel, taking the remarks farther than they were obviously intended. But then, there's the subjectivity again. :p

(and everything's relative, including the perception of wrath)

[Milhouse]

Reading through this thread a second time I had a flashback to the days of Mike Caine... :D

[Tabster]

Reading through this thread a second time I had a flashback to the days of Mike Caine... :D

you read it a second time??? :eek: once was enough for me LOL

[Texrat]

lol... if/when things get dull here we could always lobby for an appearance...

[Karel Jansens]

OMG!!!

We have all made purchases we regret. Again while some of the points you are making have inklings of truth, you need to understand that some people are/were dying to get their hands on a linux device, and while you would like to see it dummied down, others enjoy the complexity (if you choose to call it that). I prefer to call it flexibility. I enjoy being able to run an OS that I can alter down to the core, and get it to do exactly what I want. I dreamed of the day when I would purchase a Zaurus and was extremely happy when the n770 was born. While I understand your perspective, you need to understand, that while you need to warn people of your mistake and tell them not to make the same one, you also need to recognize that lots of other people are happy with thier purchases, and happy with Nokia for the most part. And not make blanket remarks about the device as a whole, while you clearly do not understand it.

We appear to dream similar dreams.

Do you also get the one with the giant bunnies with Uzis and they follow you and the only way out is through a Windows Vista desktop but you don't ever wanna get near that I'll take the Uzis thankyouverymuch...

That's usually when I wake up.

[Karel Jansens]

Hey, we're all entitled to our opinions. ;) But, in all seriousness, you've misconstrued what I said, Karel, taking the remarks farther than they were obviously intended. But then, there's the subjectivity again. :p

(and everything's relative, including the perception of wrath)

I still do love my Nokias, but I'm not going to call them Internet Tablets again.

If anything, they're UMPCs, but differently so.

[penguinbait]

We appear to dream similar dreams.

Do you also get the one with the giant bunnies with Uzis and they follow you and the only way out is through a Windows Vista desktop but you don't ever wanna get near that I'll take the Uzis thankyouverymuch...

That's usually when I wake up.

http://www.myspaceofgames.com/game/1424.html

Description:
Use your two uzi sub machine guns together or separate and gun down those invading robot rabbits.

http://penguinbait.com/gunbun.JPG


This is how I overcame my horrible dreams of evil rabbits!!!:eek:

[geneven]

As I recall, there is some kind of Bible reader in the SOFTWARE area linked to on the top right of this site, listed in the Religious category. I don't know if it works...

[wodin]

We appear to dream similar dreams.

Do you also get the one with the giant bunnies with Uzis and they follow you and the only way out is through a Windows Vista desktop but you don't ever wanna get near that I'll take the Uzis thankyouverymuch...

That's usually when I wake up.Nope, mine are penguins; with umbrellas. :eek:

[Texrat]

I still do love my Nokias, but I'm not going to call them Internet Tablets again.

If anything, they're UMPCs, but differently so.

We can agree again. :p

I think "Internet Tablet" was a very, very wrong name.

[Karel Jansens]

http://www.myspaceofgames.com/game/1424.html


AAAAAARRGHHH!!!!!!

Someone made a game of my nightmare!!!

Blue pill! Blue pill!!!

[Karel Jansens]

Nope, mine are penguins; with umbrellas. :eek:

Funnily enough, I collect penguins, but none have ever figured in my nightmares. Weird.

[sapporobaby]

@remjax

After re-reading your post, I decided to give my N800 one more try. I downloaded Canola, and one or two other apps. Rather than trying to use this as a biz device, I will try it out as a connection/media player (still needs a bit of help)/email (loads needed)/etc.... device.

From this prospective it is not terrible. It is not ready for the mass market but for early adopters and gadget people, it is okay.

[camit34]

I returned my second n800 yesterday due too the reboot issue...so i'm on my 3rd one typing this...but i dig the little thing so much i can't give up on it yet...and with the new os update, i might just have stabile one now...fingers crossed...

[hircus]

I returned my second n800 yesterday due too the reboot issue...so i'm on my 3rd one typing this...but i dig the little thing so much i can't give up on it yet...and with the new os update, i might just have stabile one now...fingers crossed...

You don't need to return them due to reboot issues -- most of the time, what you need is to use the Linux flasher to set the device to R&D mode, turn off the lifeguard reset option, and then return the device to normal mode.

[sapporobaby]

I can understand the "ease" of this but think about what you are asking a paying customer to do. Why should I have to get a Linux flasher, reset a problem with Nokia software. This device, in its current version, will always be a developers toy. Statements as such continue to validate this. This is supposed to be a production device, but as you just illustrated it is not ready.

[Texrat]

We GET it already, sapporo. I'm sure the rant is useful catharsis the first time, but this forum is overflowing with them-- many from the same person(s).

Venting is fun, but a more productive venue for feedback like that lies within the walls of Nokia. Here it's just become bothersome background noise.

[sapporobaby]

We GET it already, sapporo. I'm sure the rant is useful catharsis the first time, but this forum is overflowing with them-- many from the same person(s).

Venting is fun, but a more productive venue for feedback like that lies within the walls of Nokia. Here it's just become bothersome background noise.

Actually you are wrong. Quite wrong in fact. I took your advice and that of sondjata (I think) and gave the N800 another try but with another mindset regarding usage. Once I took it out of Biz Mode and put it in just use it mode, it is quite okay to have around and enjoyable. To the point of usefulness. I know the limitations and try not to exceed them. My only problem is that if the rebooting issue is a reoccurrence, then Nokia needs to fix this so that people do not have to go to extra ordinary measures (extra ordinary to some) to get things up and running again.

I think, you and others have said that Nokia reads these forums, and if so then great. Get the rebooting issue fixed.

[Texrat]

So how am I wrong? All I see is an uninformed technically-challenged pedantic ranter who ignores what he's been told by experienced users here. Who also persists in making the mistake of the neophyte in assuming that issues discovered in a small number of devices represent the population at large.

No wonder so many people here have you on ignore. Add another to that growing list.

[sapporobaby]

So how am I wrong? All I see is an uninformed technically-challenged pedantic ranter who ignores what he's been told by experienced users here. Who also persists in making the mistake of the neophyte in assuming that issues discovered in a small number of devices represent the population at large.

No wonder so many people here have you on ignore. Add another to that growing list.

Do as you see fit. You have to know what is right for you, but do remember it takes two hands to clap.

What I do not understand is that I took your advice, and that of a few others here and reevaluated the way that I was using the N800, and the expectations that I had on it. Once I took this advice from the experienced users here, I began to actually enjoy the device while understanding what it can and can not do. I then gave credit where credit was due. However to this I get a flaming response back.

Second, I am not technically challenged. Anytime you want to talk terrestrial satellite systems we can. I am/was challenged with this device because, like Milhouse said, I needed to do a bit more research and I did. To this end, my N800 is not the "challenge" it once was and I tend to enjoy it more.

With that being said, I will gladly leave this community to itself and do my best to never post here again. Luckily I have some PM's as well from people here that have agreed with me and have offered help should I need it.

P.S. Good luck in getting the job you want.

[einstein]

Your differences aside, there is only one poster here that's being rude, Texrat.
My modus operandus here will be read-only from now on. I don't want to lower myself to this level of communication.

For what it's worth: I am head of an IT department and as such don't consider myself technically challenged. Reading the comments here I wonder who is the one that's challenged.

Einstein out.

[Texrat]

Einstein, think as you will. Before passing judgment on anyone, however, it behooves one to examine the evidence in its entirety-- and that includes posts in this forum you seem to have missed. A little objectivity doesn't hurt either.

I'll ignore your own rude insinuations, hypocritical as they may be. And FYI, I wasn't talking to you anyway, technically or otherwise.

Have a nice day. ;)


EDIT: oh, and I don't speak for the forum, and other than your post above have had no reason whatsoever to give you any sort of grief. So feel free to reply to whomever you like, however you like. Reggie rules the roost, and if he feels led to do so I'm sure he'll give anyone who needs it a virtual slap-- self included.

EDIT 2: I admit to having little tolerance for martyrdom, so mea culpa. I do however publicly apologize to sapporo for letting my irritation with his constant complaints get under my skin, and reacting inappropriately.

[hircus]

I can understand the "ease" of this but think about what you are asking a paying customer to do. Why should I have to get a Linux flasher, reset a problem with Nokia software. This device, in its current version, will always be a developers toy. Statements as such continue to validate this. This is supposed to be a production device, but as you just illustrated it is not ready.

You do highlight a problem -- when I got bitten by this bug myself, I sent my device in for servicing, and the repair center was not aware of this common problem -- they asked Nokia to replace the device, but I found out about the software issue first and asked for the device to be returned unrepaired.

Nokia definitely should ensure that
1) their repair centers know how to diagnose the tablets
2) common problems are highlighted on their support page
3) a live CD should be provided that you can just boot and will automate the repair task

After all, I can't imagine how much they are losing from users returning devices that are fine hardware-wise.

The new firmware is supposed to be less prone to the constant-rebooting issue, though.

[sapporobaby]

You underscored my point exactly. As I said several times, but will say again for the edification of some here, after looking at the N800 in a different light, I realize it has shortcomings but these are easy to overlook when viewed from a different prospective.

The current rebooting and repair options are unacceptable considering that money that Nokia is asking for this device. I am scheduled to head to Iraq for a few days and had planned to leave my computer behind as I will have access to wifi in Iraq. However, the rebooting issue had given me pause. This is an issue that "pure endusers" should not and probably do not want to deal with. Does this make us technically-challenged? Not in my case, it does how ever make me annoyed.

Anyway, if you can read this, you have a good point. Nokia is spend a bit of dosh on something that is probably easily fixed.

[geneven]

I guess I don't understand this thread, but just in case I do understand some of it, I will say that for most problems including the reboot problems I had (five of them with the earlier firmware) I never needed access to my Linux system (although I have one) and the worst and most extreme thing I ever had to do to get a working system was reflash using the Nokia software from a Windows computer. So I would feel quite confident in Iraq that I could keep my N800 running just fine.

(It is amazing what disparate problems we can have starting from such a similar environment!)

[Texrat]

You do highlight a problem -- when I got bitten by this bug myself, I sent my device in for servicing, and the repair center was not aware of this common problem -- they asked Nokia to replace the device, but I found out about the software issue first and asked for the device to be returned unrepaired.

Nokia definitely should ensure that
1) their repair centers know how to diagnose the tablets
2) common problems are highlighted on their support page
3) a live CD should be provided that you can just boot and will automate the repair task

After all, I can't imagine how much they are losing from users returning devices that are fine hardware-wise.

The new firmware is supposed to be less prone to the constant-rebooting issue, though.

You bring up good points, and I like your suggestions.

As you noted, the rebooting issue isn't solely a hardware problem, given that the vast majority of cases can be fixed via firmware. And as I've noted, this issue isn't as widespread as some posters have made it out, especially the hardcore cases. Thus the need for rational dialog on the subject as opposed to hand-wringing and hyperbole. Posts like yours are very helpful in that regard.

I share your concern about the repair situation. It's in a company's best interest to provide thorough communications and respond effectively to feedback, or else they'll certainly spend an inordinate amount of time on in-house repairs that are unnecessary. Nokia can do much better in that area, and to that extent I'm offering what I can. Unfortunately, I can't provide an official final word; that's for Dr. Jaaksi.

As I told another poster, when I put my consumer hat on I'm willing to let certain shortcomings with the N800 support slide due to the newness of the platform. However, if these issues aren't ironed out by the next gen device, I'm going to be right there with the people I think are going overboard right now. ;)

[sapporobaby]

I guess I don't understand this thread, but just in case I do understand some of it, I will say that for most problems including the reboot problems I had (five of them with the earlier firmware) I never needed access to my Linux system (although I have one) and the worst and most extreme thing I ever had to do to get a working system was reflash using the Nokia software from a Windows computer. So I would feel quite confident in Iraq that I could keep my N800 running just fine.

(It is amazing what disparate problems we can have starting from such a similar environment!)

Hi geneven,

I guess you were directing this at me considering you mentioned Iraq. The point is, I could not get it running after reflashing, reflashing, reflashing, reflashing, reflashing, and finally reflashing. Six, count'em six reflashings and no joy. Sorry but I do not share your optimism regarding just reflash and go. Needless to say, I will take my Mac with me and have my N800 as an extra device. Once these issues are worked out, and I am pretty confident it will eventually, I will have a bit more faith in the N800 as a quasi-replacement device.

Cheers.

[iball]

Hey Sapporo, I've bounced around various "places" in Iraq with my N800 and no problems. Some things I will suggest for that environment:

1) Keep that sucker in a ziplock bag when you're not using it (keeps most of the dust out)

2) Put a screen protector on it

3) If military, keep it in your hooch and don't take it outside the wire. It's a distraction you don't need. If not military, then do whatever.

4) Don't put it in your battle-rattle (read: LBV/body armor). It will only get crushed. After seeing an iPod die this way, I don't keep any electronics in my gear.

It's great for reading books and watching videos on long flights though. Right now I'm running through several seasons of "Top Gear".

[camit34]

You don't need to return them due to reboot issues -- most of the time, what you need is to use the Linux flasher to set the device to R&D mode, turn off the lifeguard reset option, and then return the device to normal mode.

I'll be sure to give this a go next time...hopefully there is no next time though...thanks!!!

[fadeddata]

Hello All,

I've had my N800 for about 2 days and it has been restarting randomly quite a bit. I've reflashed twice. On the last flashing the device crashed while I was setting the language from English(UK) to English(US). Should I take the unit back and request a replacement? Or call Nokia? Any suggestions? I really like this device but not if its this unstable.

Thanks for any help...
-dustin

[sapporobaby]

Hello All,

I've had my N800 for about 2 days and it has been restarting randomly quite a bit. I've reflashed twice. On the last flashing the device crashed while I was setting the language from English(UK) to English(US). Should I take the unit back and request a replacement? Or call Nokia? Any suggestions? I really like this device but not if its this unstable.

Thanks for any help...
-dustin


You are under warranty for sure. I would not even bother to mess with it (some will suggest you get a Linux CD and go into some R&D mode to possibly fix this issue) unless this is something you like to do and have the time to do it. I had the same thing and took mine back and got a brand new one.

P.S. Have you verified that you are using the latest firmware?

[fadeddata]

Thanks for the advice, but this seems like a real issue with the device. The above recommendation basically disables a watch for system faults (such as service crashes due to lack of memory) that restart the machine. This reeks of bad design. The watchdog is only supposed to kick in when something bad happens, not when I'm switching from UK to US keyboard styles on initial setup. Is this common? In the threads on Maemo it looks like the guy had went through two units and both had this problem...

Any thoughts?
-dustin

[geneven]

I don't believe in disabling the Watchdog function, and I have never even tried to do so. I don't understand why you all are having such problems; I have been indiscriminately installing every beta whatever I can get my hands on, with no serious problems since I did the firmware upgrade.

I have refrained from going into red dot mode, or whatever you call it, or doing any other obviously risky things. I use my N800 many hours every day and have since January.

[Dietrich]

If you haven't already done so, reflash to the newest firmware.

Depending on what you do, you can easily hose your N800 and create a dependency issue.

Start over and make incremental changes--good luck!

[fadeddata]

Ok so I've disabled the Lifeguard mode and the device is still randomly locking up...I'm going to set it back to normal and return it to the store tomorrow.

This really sucks, the little I've used the device I love it. Any of you think getting it replaced would resolve the issue?

Thanks for all the help, this is probably one of the fastest and most helpful communities online...

-dustin

[fadeddata]

Is the 2007 Edition of the OS stable is that the version I should be using?

The filename is RX-34_2007SE_3.2007.10-7_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM

-dustin

[Milhouse]

This really sucks, the little I've used the device I love it. Any of you think getting it replaced would resolve the issue?


Should do, the problem with your current device does sound unusual and is hopefully a one-off.

[Milhouse]

Is the 2007 Edition of the OS stable is that the version I should be using?

The filename is RX-34_2007SE_3.2007.10-7_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM

-dustin

Yes, that is the latest version of OS 2007. It's commonly referred to as 3.2007.10-7 round here (this number is also shown in Control Panel->About), which - if you hadn't guessed - stands for 3rd released firmware and a build date of the 10th week in 2007 (mid-March), 7th attempt that week. :)

The original OS 2007 firmware that shipped with devices is 2.2006.51-7 while some early units had 2.2006.51-6.

I'm pretty sure you'll fair better with a replacement unit. :)

[Texrat]

Thanks for the advice, but this seems like a real issue with the device. The above recommendation basically disables a watch for system faults (such as service crashes due to lack of memory) that restart the machine. This reeks of bad design. The watchdog is only supposed to kick in when something bad happens, not when I'm switching from UK to US keyboard styles on initial setup. Is this common? In the threads on Maemo it looks like the guy had went through two units and both had this problem...

Any thoughts?
-dustin

I've NEVER seen one crash when changing regional settings, regardless of OS version. I'm suspecting a faulty device. Have it replaced.

[fadeddata]

Ok, I've got the new one in hand, it is currently charging. I'll keep you guys updated on the progress.

-dustin

[sapporobaby]

Ok, I've got the new one in hand, it is currently charging. I'll keep you guys updated on the progress.

-dustin

Good deal.

As long as you have that warranty, always use it. Don't bother to try and fix it yourself unless you are so inclined and have the time and patience.

[Milhouse]

There's no harm in asking (or searching) for a fix here - some problems are actually quite easy to fix (though obviously not in this case) and certainly a lot less hassle than a trip back to the store... :)

[fadeddata]

The new unit is working great. Hasn't crashed once. I'm currently typing this on it! I really doubt anything could have been done to salvage the previous unit. Thanks for all the help...