Model Moderation

[geneven]

Here is a recent posting that exemplifies moderation as abuse of power:


===============================================

This thread is now closed. Please use this thread for pointless PR1.2 discussions:

http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=42285

Please note that anyone else who cannot follow the idea that the new firmware will be released when it works properly will be considered "special needs", and afforded the same consideration as other challanged individuals.

===================================

Note how the moderator uses the last message to express his opinion, then closes the thread. This of course gives him the last word and prevents any replies.

The moderator makes it clear that he has the right to be insulting and not worry about politeness. This shows how much power he has and how little fear of greater powers..

[Cue]

s/he is not a moderator and the thread was not closed.

[geneven]

In that case, my apologies to real moderators. I have seen similar abuses from real moderators, but if this isn't one, my criticism is based on a lie that is not mine.

Edit: I tried to delete my original post,but couldn't. I should be more aware that liars exist here.

[silvermountain]

In that case, my apologies to real moderators. I have seen similar abuses from real moderators, but if this isn't one, my criticism is based on a lie that is not mine.

Edit: I tried to delete my original post,but couldn't. I should be more aware that liars exist here.

There is a list somewhere here that lists all official moderators.

[CrashandDie]

Geneven: trying to find any excuse possible to slam moderators.

[Laughingstok]

geneven.. really buddy. Give it a rest mang.

[manvik60]

There is a list somewhere here that lists all official moderators.

Moderators List (http://talk.maemo.org/showgroups.php)

Cheers

[Texrat]

I'd close this thread, but...

[somedude]

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/devotion_to_duty.png

[ysss]

Can i have the last word here... I heard it's valuable beyond any rational thoughts...

[somedude]

I would like Texrat to finish that sentence.

[abill_uk]

Well looking at this thread it just goes to prove people do indeed disagree with moderating on this forum and for sure if it is talked about in any way or form some mod will jump in and close the thread simply because they dont want anyone talking bad of them in any way or form... oooer.
The TRUE way of a moderator should be a silent one and no way make comments to urge people on to argue and throw abuse because they think they got the backing of the mod !.
Moderators are human too and obviously get in with their own views even if it is derogative and does indeed get peoples back up, and the most common thing is to just close a thread because THEY think its what should be done from an individual point of view... screw anyone elses feelings aye !!.
As a test for everyone to watch let's just see how long this thread is allowed to live ha ! and just wait for the fanboys of the mods to get involved to make such a mess that gives the mods reason for closure !!!.

[xomm]

Well looking at this thread it just goes to prove people do indeed disagree with moderating on this forum and for sure if it is talked about in any way or form some mod will jump in and close the thread simply because they dont want anyone talking bad of them in any way or form... oooer.
The TRUE way of a moderator should be a silent one and no way make comments to urge people on to argue and throw abuse because they think they got the backing of the mod !.
Moderators are human too and obviously get in with their own views even if it is derogative and does indeed get peoples back up, and the most common thing is to just close a thread because THEY think its what should be done from an individual point of view... screw anyone elses feelings aye !!.
As a test for everyone to watch let's just see how long this thread is allowed to live ha ! and just wait for the fanboys of the mods to get involved to make such a mess that gives the mods reason for closure !!!.

For one, your flame bait is unappreciated. First time, funny. Second time, old. Third time, annoying. And fourth and subsequent times, ridiculous.

If you would provide some actual examples (links and quotes,) of where moderators have gone wrong, I'm sure they would be happy to listen.

That's all I'm asking for. Proof. I'm not asking for a fight, or a mess. Just proof.

[abill_uk]

For one, your flame bait is unappreciated. First time, funny. Second time, old. Third time, annoying. And fourth and subsequent times, ridiculous.

If you would provide some actual examples (links and quotes,) of where moderators have gone wrong, I'm sure they would be happy to listen.

That's all I'm asking for. Proof. I'm not asking for a fight, or a mess. Just proof.

Ha ok when i have the time i will indeed post a few examples as i was waiting for this q to be thrown soyes good point and a good way forward BUT for sure this will cause a hell of a lot of critisism and i am not sure if it is in fact a good idea.
If you look at every mods posts you will see they have a group of followers that will in fact become very obvious that where mod goes they go lol.
I am not throwing any flaming here i am just simple giving a point of view and a logical one too i might add if you read what i said.
You need to find locked threads to get a true image of behaviour so please also try at least to do some research yourself based on what i have said on this post and i am sure others will follow but the problem is not many have the actuall guts to down a mod on here for obvious reasons and have to be VERY tactical about it.

[Texrat]

Oh this should be good.

[abill_uk]

Oh this should be good.

Yes it will indeed IF people have the guts, as for me i have been burned a few times on this forum and have learned to be very tactical if not silent so this is my last input to this thread !.

[Texrat]

Glad to see this forum has helped people grow.

[gryedouge]

@ Texrat

Now, now...be kind and nice to all the poor little creatures lurking in the maemo.org forest...

[xomm]

You need to find locked threads to get a true image of behaviour so please also try at least to do some research yourself based on what i have said on this post

I didn't mean proof, sorry. Just examples of where you think they have gome wrong.

Glad to see this forum has helped people grow.

Glad to see I've spent three of my fledgling years here.

[Texrat]

Isn't being glad the same as kind? ;)

[gryedouge]

Isn't being glad the same as kind? ;)

:D in my books, you are kinda stretching glad to its limit and then overworking it some...but you are the moderator :p

[Texrat]

:D in my books, you are kinda stretching glad to its limit and then overworking it some...but you are the moderator :p

Well, you know, we do aim to oppress. Er, impress.

[Laughingstok]

repress? ,

[Texrat]

repress? ,

Only if there are still wrinkles after the first one.

[Laughingstok]

Really.I hope I have simular wit whem i grow up

[xomm]

Meanwhile...

Texrat goes on to prevent Dave999's thread from showing up in active topics.

Sorry, Laughingstoknorris.

[Laughingstok]

Meanwhile...

Texrat goes on to prevent Dave999's thread from showing up in active topics.

Sorry, Laughingstoknorris.

What? :confused:

[geneven]

I have of course complained about moderators. But I don't complain about all moderators all the time. When I did try to complain about a moderator officially, I didn't get so much as a civil answer. Or an uncivil one, for that matter.

As for my posting that started this thread, I apologized for it within five minutes of its posting. I assumed that someone who acted like a moderator was a moderator. I assumed that he was a new one.

[abill_uk]

I have of course complained about moderators. But I don't complain about all moderators all the time. When I did try to complain about a moderator officially, I didn't get so much as a civil answer. Or an uncivil one, for that matter.

As for my posting that started this thread, I apologized for it within five minutes of its posting. I assumed that someone who acted like a moderator was a moderator. I assumed that he was a new one.

I will break my silence to answer this one as i feel Geneven could do with the answer to why he never got replies, the reason you never got any replies is simply because the moderator you officially complained about was either protected by his mate a fellow mod that picked up the complaint as the complaint will go direct to the mod on duty at that time so either way they would not give you the satisfaction of knowing anything but a dead end.
IF you want to complain properly and make sure it gets to the top then i suggest you email Reggie as he is the top as administrator and he i am sure will be fair and square unlike the rest of the mods on here and will always give you a reply.
Moderation on here is very ugly and they tribe together and will even either ban you or start other people at you by their comments.
Be like me and have the silent approach, bide your time and get as many incidents together as you can, bunch that lot together and get it to Reggie as this will give him no other choice but to investigate it i am sure.
Good luck and silently does it ok.
PS i am 100% on your side !!!.

[johnel]

Generally the moderation here is fine - not perfect but could be much worse.

Nobody expects "The Spanish Inquisition"

"Amongst our weaponry are such diverse elements as: fear, surprise, ruthless efficiency, an almost fanatical.."

Oh never mind....

http://firebreathingchristian.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/monty-python-spanish-inquisition.jpg

[festivalnut]

MUM! MUUUUUUUUM!!!! the bad people on tmo are laughing at me and i cant handle it, i asked the mods to stop them cos they made me cry but the mods never did nuffin so i wrote to the mods boss and he did nuffin so will you go tell them off please mum? pleeeeeease?

[abill_uk]

Generally the moderation here is fine - not perfect but could be much worse.

Nobody expects "The Spanish Inquisition"

"Amongst our weaponry are such diverse elements as: fear, surprise, ruthless efficiency, an almost fanatical.."

Oh never mind....

http://firebreathingchristian.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/monty-python-spanish-inquisition.jpg

Oh i just LOVE that pic lol it just about sums it all up ha ha ha good one i applaud you !.

[johnel]

Mind you, the moderation on this thread (http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=665895)was a bit wierd:

Comparison of moderated comments:
Post Comparison
- Why is thie peice of **** device now not playing streaming video from my PC.
+ Why is thie device now not playing streaming video from my PC.


- It worked out of the box now the audio plays for 20 seconds and the first frame of video freezes. This deivce is ****, nothing works properly and it takes hours of searching just to get the basic crap to work. **** YOU NOKIA.
+ It worked out of the box now the audio plays for 20 seconds and the first frame of video freezes. This deivce is ****, nothing works properly and it takes hours of searching just to get the basic crap to work.

HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa!


Why is mae fuggy ekyboard no worky?

- Me so angry kant tipe worth a f**k.
**** YOU NIKOA
+ Me so angry kant tipe.

E.g. fuggy is more acceptable than **** and negative statement against Nokia completely removed.

[abill_uk]

In all fairness Johnel i must admit if i was the mod looking at that lot i would have been very wary from the off as the op did not seem to have a clue let alone present himself in a polite way so i would have deleted the lot from the first post lol.
I am suprised it went as long as it has and i would think the mods involved let it go that far because of the people replying are good folk with decent fair comments.
Swearing just cannot be allowed on any forum if its to be run for the general public eyes and this forum is 100% for the benefit of Nokia so the obvious foul mouthed words would have to be deleted.
I play fair and square and have the knowledge to know what is indeed fair and what is just not acceptable in moderating techniques and i have to go with the mods on that thread Johnel ok lol.

[ysss]

Swearing just cannot be allowed on any forum if its to be run for the general public eyes and this forum is 100% for the benefit of Nokia so the obvious foul mouthed words would have to be deleted.


Many would argue that this forum is for the benefit of the community. And even if your assumption was correct, what's the correlation between those two points anyway?

[johnel]

In all fairness Johnel i must admit if i was the mod looking at that lot i would have been very wary from the off as the op did not seem to have a clue let alone present himself in a polite way so i would have deleted the lot from the first post lol.
I am suprised it went as long as it has and i would think the mods involved let it go that far because of the people replying are good folk with decent fair comments.
Swearing just cannot be allowed on any forum if its to be run for the general public eyes and this forum is 100% for the benefit of Nokia so the obvious foul mouthed words would have to be deleted.
I play fair and square and have the knowledge to know what is indeed fair and what is just not acceptable in moderating techniques and i have to go with the mods on that thread Johnel ok lol.

Actually, reading it back it does look quite bad!

It was just so funny - some guy freaking out about streaming video!

Very fuggy funny!

[abill_uk]

Your talking double dutch ysss so sorry i dont quite understand what your trying to say.

[rcarlos]

just wanted to put in my 2 cents

“Moderation in temper is always a virtue; but moderation in principle is always a vice”
Thomas Paine

[festivalnut]

all things in moderation,including moderation itself.

[John McClane]

Never trust your tongue when your heart is bitter.
Samuel J. Hurwitt ;)

[johnel]

He who go to bed with itchy bum wake up with smelly finger.
Anonymous

[abill_uk]

just wanted to put in my 2 cents

“Moderation in temper is always a virtue; but moderation in principle is always a vice”
Thomas Paine

OUCH lol that sounds awful but if you reverse that it would be much better lol.

[abill_uk]

He who go to bed with itchy bum wake up with smelly finger.
Anonymous

JOHNEL you are for sure TING TONG lol maybe you should go see the doc lol but i have to admit that DID make me laugh hehehehe .:p

[CrashandDie]

I will break my silence to answer this one as i feel Geneven could do with the answer to why he never got replies, the reason you never got any replies is simply because the moderator you officially complained about was either protected by his mate a fellow mod that picked up the complaint as the complaint will go direct to the mod on duty at that time so either way they would not give you the satisfaction of knowing anything but a dead end.

Oh sod off you plonker. You don't even know what you're talking about. Geneven complained about me, and nearly all my actions were reverted instantly. All of Geneven's bickering and moaning has always been listened to, even though he more than once was way out of line. I decided to quit because of idiots like Geneven, because they make the moderation in here quite impossible. They don't read your personal messages, they disregard the fact we could solve it in private, and goes and posts to the community council, in public, and is unable to keep two discussions going. So he starts spreading untruths, lies and miscommunication, blaming me and all the other moderators. Everything is still online, you can find it by searching for a bit (hint, it's in "community").

IF you want to complain properly and make sure it gets to the top then i suggest you email Reggie as he is the top as administrator and he i am sure will be fair and square unlike the rest of the mods on here and will always give you a reply.

Actually, no. Reggie will most probably ignore you outright. Reggie even ignores the mods most of the time (he does read your stuff, just doesn't react very quickly nor often). It works. The moderators do their stuff, and Reggie comes in when he feels things are getting out of hand (locking the PR1.2 thread, for example).

Moderation on here is very ugly and they tribe together and will even either ban you or start other people at you by their comments.

Again, proof please? Nobody was *ever* banned for insulting mods, or telling they're doing a bad job. You have strictly no idea what you're talking about, just spreading fud. But guess what, nobody is silencing you...

Just as I was saying last night: It's so funny to see conspiracy theorists talk crap, saying they're being oppressed and such. You have so much freedom you wouldn't be able to recognise oppression were it to stare at you right in the face.

Be like me and have the silent approach, bide your time and get as many incidents together as you can, bunch that lot together and get it to Reggie as this will give him no other choice but to investigate it i am sure.
Good luck and silently does it ok.
PS i am 100% on your side !!!.

Again, there are no "incidents". Either you have things you wish to talk about, and you tell us about it, or you shut the hell up, and don't keep your own agenda. This community is about openness, and our moderators function in that way as well: however, we can't change the way we moderate unless we're told what are mistakes are.

Geneven, you're a smart bloke, do you really want to associate yourself with this troll?

[abill_uk]

Why did the chicken cross the road?

[ysss]

Because it couldn't stand you...

Ok dude, you've gotta realize something... when you read mostly negative replies to your post, then it's gotta mean something...

[Laughingstok]

Because it couldn't stand you...

Ok dude, you've gotta realize something... when you read mostly negative replies to your post, then it's gotta mean something...

Whatever dude. Logic would imply that if you think you're right and everyone else is wrong, it means you're right, and everyone else is wrong. :D

[rcarlos]

Whatever dude. Logic would imply that if you think you're right and everyone else is wrong, it means you're right, and everyone else is wrong. :D

Again inspirational insight

[ysss]

Whatever dude. Logic would imply that if you think you're right and everyone else is wrong, it means you're right, and everyone else is wrong. :D

lol right

but not all of the jabfests were about subjective topics. there were some about technical issues too that were erroneously defended just out of pride.. surely one can logically see himself as in the wrong on those debates.

[festivalnut]

Again inspirational insight
hey! stop seconding my sarcasm! it sounds mean when u do it! ;)

[abill_uk]

Oh sod off you plonker. You don't even know what you're talking about. Geneven complained about me, and nearly all my actions were reverted instantly. All of Geneven's bickering and moaning has always been listened to, even though he more than once was way out of line. I decided to quit because of idiots like Geneven, because they make the moderation in here quite impossible. They don't read your personal messages, they disregard the fact we could solve it in private, and goes and posts to the community council, in public, and is unable to keep two discussions going. So he starts spreading untruths, lies and miscommunication, blaming me and all the other moderators. Everything is still online, you can find it by searching for a bit (hint, it's in "community").



Actually, no. Reggie will most probably ignore you outright. Reggie even ignores the mods most of the time (he does read your stuff, just doesn't react very quickly nor often). It works. The moderators do their stuff, and Reggie comes in when he feels things are getting out of hand (locking the PR1.2 thread, for example).



Again, proof please? Nobody was *ever* banned for insulting mods, or telling they're doing a bad job. You have strictly no idea what you're talking about, just spreading fud. But guess what, nobody is silencing you...

Just as I was saying last night: It's so funny to see conspiracy theorists talk crap, saying they're being oppressed and such. You have so much freedom you wouldn't be able to recognise oppression were it to stare at you right in the face.



Again, there are no "incidents". Either you have things you wish to talk about, and you tell us about it, or you shut the hell up, and don't keep your own agenda. This community is about openness, and our moderators function in that way as well: however, we can't change the way we moderate unless we're told what are mistakes are.

Geneven, you're a smart bloke, do you really want to associate yourself with this troll?

WOW that was a heck of a rant and one i read with interest and as you got me in a good mood tonight i will reply fairly ok.
I cannot comment about Geneven directly as i have not read his posts to know enough if your right or wrong here but as for being a "plonker" lol we all have our moments in life trust me ha and as i only commented on a given situation of being ignored as he put it the comments i made were fair without flaming or swearing.
Moderating is a skill if used in the proper way has no rebounds or repercussions and ugly comments made against the mod as he will apply a no nonsence set of rules without getting directly or indirectly involved with that particular discussion and their is your problem because the biggest problem with moderating is you cannot have a mod who involves himself in adding comments of any nature as this always stirs up trouble so the only true effective way of moderating is indeed a silent one that never involves personal comments on any thread at all.
It is all too easy for people to take sides and usually go with the mod to get favouritism because there is interaction coming from the moderator directly by him adding comments leading people to automatically take the mods side in any event.
That situation is common place on this forum and is very much a fault that does need to be looked at and some guidence put in place for future problems such as your problem that lead to you resigning your services as a moderator.
Please at least try to read and understand what i am saying here as i do indeed have troubleshooting background knowledge and that does not make me a troll lol.
From my own personal feelings i dont actually agree with such "openess" on any community if it leads to the problems you got on this one from time to time and untill it is at least looked at indeed by all moderators with obvious input from admin then this is going to happen over and over on this community.
There is a time and a place to give instances and this is neithwr the place nor the time and as for Reggie becoming involved i think you answered your own comment if you read it again as the moderating problems are obviously an ongoing situation and i am sure at some point it will indeed be looked at by admin.
I am NOT a troll as my input to this community is fair untill problems start to happen and i have enough evidence of that for sure but as i said this is neither the time nor place for that.
My final comment to you is a fair one in that your job as a moderator is a hard and sometimes very difficult one simply because the issues incurred by the "openess" and interaction directly from mods is in fact inciting and provoking many cruel and uncalled for comments to be thrown about.
This is indeed a dog eat dog world we live in sometimes and some folk are and can be very cruel indeed especially when they are having to deal with a product that has not made the hype and feels a total let down.

[Laughingstok]

You guys are so serious about the Internet.. :confused:

Never be serious about the Internet.

[festivalnut]

WOW that was a heck of a rant and one i read with interest and as you got me in a good mood tonight i will reply fairly ok.
I cannot comment about Geneven directly as i have not read his posts to know enough if your right or wrong here but as for being a "plonker" lol we all have our moments in life trust me ha and as i only commented on a given situation of being ignored as he put it the comments i made were fair without flaming or swearing.
Moderating is a skill if used in the proper way has no rebounds or repercussions and ugly comments made against the mod as he will apply a no nonsence set of rules without getting directly or indirectly involved with that particular discussion and their is your problem because the biggest problem with moderating is you cannot have a mod who involves himself in adding comments of any nature as this always stirs up trouble so the only true effective way of moderating is indeed a silent one that never involves personal comments on any thread at all.
It is all too easy for people to take sides and usually go with the mod to get favouritism because there is interaction coming from the moderator directly by him adding comments leading people to automatically take the mods side in any event.
That situation is common place on this forum and is very much a fault that does need to be looked at and some guidence put in place for future problems such as your problem that lead to you resigning your services as a moderator.
Please at least try to read and understand what i am saying here as i do indeed have troubleshooting background knowledge and that does not make me a troll lol.
From my own personal feelings i dont actually agree with such "openess" on any community if it leads to the problems you got on this one from time to time and untill it is at least looked at indeed by all moderators with obvious input from admin then this is going to happen over and over on this community.
There is a time and a place to give instances and this is neithwr the place nor the time and as for Reggie becoming involved i think you answered your own comment if you read it again as the moderating problems are obviously an ongoing situation and i am sure at some point it will indeed be looked at by admin.
I am NOT a troll as my input to this community is fair untill problems start to happen and i have enough evidence of that for sure but as i said this is neither the time nor place for that.
My final comment to you is a fair one in that your job as a moderator is a hard and sometimes very difficult one simply because the issues incurred by the "openess" and interaction directly from mods is in fact inciting and provoking many cruel and uncalled for comments to be thrown about.
This is indeed a dog eat dog world we live in sometimes and some folk are and can be very cruel indeed especially when they are having to deal with a product that has not made the hype and feels a total let down.

wow! that was fair and sensible... okay who hacked abilluk's account these obviously aren't his words! ;)

[stopgo]

my input to this community

must have missed it. gonna go searching for it now. give me a hint. downloads? wiki? QA queue?

[ysss]

tl;dr^H^H^H^H^H... I'll get back to you shortly.

[Laughingstok]

tl;dr^H^H^H^H^H... I'll get back to you shortly.

stty erase ^H

[abill_uk]

wow! that was fair and sensible... okay who hacked abilluk's account these obviously aren't his words! ;)

If people would only be fair and non aggresive or insulting in their comments then you will get the true me but i have to admit on this community there is a lot of ugly comments thrown even at me and that does throw people right off track.
If you want a fair comment thrown back then leave one in the first place, maybe i am a bit old in the tooth as i am probably older than most on here but dont expect me to be fair when people are just being down right nasty.

[Texrat]

Moderating is a skill if used in the proper way has no rebounds or repercussions and ugly comments made against the mod as he will apply a no nonsence set of rules without getting directly or indirectly involved with that particular discussion and their is your problem because the biggest problem with moderating is you cannot have a mod who involves himself in adding comments of any nature as this always stirs up trouble so the only true effective way of moderating is indeed a silent one that never involves personal comments on any thread at all.

I'd say that was a complete load of crap, but then, that would just make your point, wouldn't it.

If moderators were ALL silent here, and none enagaged anyone else, that would just be another thing for posters to complain about. Only instead of an extremist handful of 3 or 4 who are never happy, it would be the majority complaining. And rightfully so. Because moderation is NOT just about stealthy edits, deletes and bannings-- in fact, you might be well-served by looking up the definition of the word to see what it truly means in this context.

Now, back to your regularly-scheduled ranting.

[johnel]

Wow!

Is this thread still going?

Can't we all agree to disagree and be friends.

We can then hand-in-hand run through the fields of wildebeasts majestically migrating through the plains of Africa and say...

"Maybe we should join a less radical group who have more moderate views?"
.
.

(e.g. Church of Scientology)

[ysss]

http://blogs.suntimes.com/scanners/couch.jpg

[johnel]

http://blogs.suntimes.com/scanners/couch.jpg

:d:d:d:d:d:d

[mmurfin87]

He who go to bed with itchy bum wake up with smelly finger.
Anonymous

I've always heard that attributed to Confucious.

[Texrat]

I've always heard that attributed to Confucious.

After he sobered up, Confucious realized he'd rather be anonymous on that one.

[johnel]

I've always heard that attributed to Confucious.

Maybe it was.

It wouldn't surprise me.

That little bearded numpty just sat on his a*** all day talking shite.

Give me a widescreen tv, sports channel and a box of beers and I can do the same thing.

:)

[abill_uk]

I'd say that was a complete load of crap, but then, that would just make your point, wouldn't it.

If moderators were ALL silent here, and none enagaged anyone else, that would just be another thing for posters to complain about. Only instead of an extremist handful of 3 or 4 who are never happy, it would be the majority complaining. And rightfully so. Because moderation is NOT just about stealthy edits, deletes and bannings-- in fact, you might be well-served by looking up the definition of the word to see what it truly means in this context.

Now, back to your regularly-scheduled ranting.

Your arguing for the right for moderators to be able leave flaming or argumentative comments as they just love to stir when they feel they are immune to critisism or action against them, you are in fact in favour by your very comments of mod input as it is on here whatever the outcome is because it excites you to delete and ban people that dont actually agree with your own personal opinions.
The only way a mod could possibly have input is for strict guidelines NOT to leave derogatory comments of ANY nature because thats the only way it will work that would not incite favouratism and trouble in general.

"I'd say that was a complete load of crap, but then, that would just make your point, wouldn't it."

is indeed a typical example of an ugly comment and inciting ugly comments by other users because you are actually putting down a person by your own words and in doing so encourage others to follow suit.
What you maybe should have said is " i dont think i can agree with you beause....."
There are many ways to moderate forums as you might be aware of but what you seem to fail to see in my opinion is the fact that intervening comments should always be well thought out before leaving them due to the nature of implications it could cause if it is indeed a derogatory or flaming comment.
A good community runs itself from good moderating and has plenty of input simply because its a known good community to be involved in, this community has however got quite a few negative comments regarding the moderation techniques used so maybe you should do some research on the very community you work on as it is a lot more than "3 or 4" as you suggest that are complaining.
Let the threads run without inciting ugly comments is my opinion and do your job knowing you have not had any input whatsoever in an argument that may appear on any particular thread by leaving any comments other than the reason you may delete or ban.
Proof is in the pudding as we say and i think after your comments it will start to get ugly on this thread.

[gryedouge]

@Tex...

if this thread carries on the way it is...you might have to choose between merging it with dave999's epic thread :p or the 'complaints and general unhappy mutterers' thread....

[CrashandDie]

in favour [...] of mod input as it is on here [...] because it excites you to delete and ban people that dont actually agree with your own personal opinions.

Again, who was banned because we didn't agree with his comments, critique or point of view?

Give me one single example of a person who was silenced in such a way? Deletion of comments is seriously frowned upon (I burned myself a couple of times as a moderator because of this, ain't that true Geneven?), and banning users is only reserved to very specific individuals (very heavy trolling, disrupting the course of other people's threads, and repeated insults). Then again, banning has only been used when such behaviour was repeated, no matter what kind of mediation, no matter how many times the user had been warned.

You will find no such example in these forums. You may not agree with the fact that our moderators speak freely, but one should not forget they are community members before they are moderators. Moderators exist because community members decide they want to help. This does not change their status, and I would feel cheated if suddenly, because one takes on the role of a moderator, he has to change his point of view, or the ways of his language.

Moderators have very limited power. All of our actions are logged, and most of the actions, discussions about users and such are reported to our fellow moderators and higher up to administrators as well. When a message is deleted, it is never "fully" deleted. It is just hidden from view for normal members. Other moderators can still read the comments, and they are shown the comment has been "soft deleted" by another moderator, and can see the reason provided by the moderator.

I suggest you try to understand how moderation works in our forums before you criticise it. There is a lot you don't realise, so please, thread with caution.

[Texrat]

Your arguing for the right for moderators to be able leave flaming or argumentative comments as they just love to stir when they feel they are immune to critisism or action against them, you are in fact in favour by your very comments of mod input as it is on here whatever the outcome is because it excites you to delete and ban people that dont actually agree with your own personal opinions.

You're actually 100% wrong on that.

No moderator here has ever deleted posts or banned members over disagreement. Ever. So no moderator here "gets excited" over something they don't or would not do. In fact there are no moderators here with such a flawed personality. If any person was so inclined to be so malicious and petty, they would never be accepted as a moderator here.

If I suggested you read more carefully and avoid silly straw man construction, would you be willing to try?

[Texrat]

@Tex...

if this thread carries on the way it is...you might have to choose between merging it with dave999's epic thread :p or the 'complaints and general unhappy mutterers' thread....

abill_uk has already admitted he willfully tries to derail threads and passively-aggressively push for the moderator responses he complains about so he can prove his accusations of heavy-handedness. The very definition of trolling.

That of course puts us in an interesting position, and for the most part we roll our eyes and ignore his blatant baiting, but at some point enough will of course become enough.

Ironically, though, the example of abill_uk handily demonstrates that anyone claiming we are too heavy-handed here is smoking something really strong.

[abill_uk]

@ Crash
I wont do a "reply" as it takes up space and time, i was actually banned for what exactly and what warning did i in fact get? did you read how the thread went on this occasion? did you not see the follow on from a mods input ? i complained a few times and was ignored as per usual and please remember i was the op in this case and because of the foul comments i never stood a chance because in came the usual group that follow the mods on here and destroyed everything, i had no control whatsoever.
You should be well aware of the problems dealing with peoples insults and as we are only human can only take so much then you start to rebel, in this case i lost the ability from pure disbelief of being a professional reading just what was being said.
It could have been stopped by any mod but no moderation at all was used and if you go look at that particular thread you will indeed see my point that a mod's interaction only flamed the issue well and truly out of hand and on it went.
I DO sympathise with you because quite frankly this is and can be a very nasty world and is not easy to deal with some of the nastiness that goes on.
I personally think you should get back to moderating because you seem to have a fair view and have learned valuble lessons from your own actions so from my point of view the community perhaps lost a good mod !.
I read everything and do agree with what your saying but i still feel that any mod should really think before leaving a comment and i will stick by that rule because it is the sensible thing to do when dealing with masses of differnt cultures and people in general, tread with caution i say.

[abill_uk]

You're actually 100% wrong on that.

No moderator here has ever deleted posts or banned members over disagreement. Ever. So no moderator here "gets excited" over something they don't or would not do. In fact there are no moderators here with such a flawed personality. If any person was so inclined to be so malicious and petty, they would never be accepted as a moderator here.

If I suggested you read more carefully and avoid silly straw man construction, would you be willing to try?

Tex please go look at the thread that got me a 24hr ban and read from start to finish and then tell me why i got kicked in the teeth after the bad comments i was having to deal with.
I never got the chance and wont now as thread is closed to even explain myself and what i was really trying to accomplish because the "followers" made sure the thread was totally destroyed.
It was that experiance that turned me and the reason i would like to see proper interaction from moderators on here.
You should know something about me and that i am as helpful as i can be but its not easy when the foul comments start so please stop that and you will have my full support and i dont say that lightly.

[Texrat]

Tex please go look at the thread that got me a 24hr ban and read from start to finish and then tell me why i got kicked in the teeth after the bad comments i was having to deal with.
I never got the chance and wont now as thread is closed to even explain myself and what i was really trying to accomplish because the "followers" made sure the thread was totally destroyed.
It was that experiance that turned me and the reason i would like to see proper interaction from moderators on here.
You should know something about me and that i am as helpful as i can be but its not easy when the foul comments start so please stop that and you will have my full support and i dont say that lightly.

As long as your expressed version of reality does not match the actual thing, I will never be able to make anything clear for you.

I can only continue to assume you're putting on an act.

[John McClane]

C'mon you need to look inside your shoes and their shoes(mods). "Not literally Agh." It's a hard job and they need to be as neutral as possible. Not only that they also need to follow rules too. Making a complaint its just the way to tell people ur side of the story (respect that). But also you need to respect their side of the story too. It's called Balance. My 2 cents :cool:

[abill_uk]

abill_uk has already admitted he willfully tries to derail threads and passively-aggressively push for the moderator responses he complains about so he can prove his accusations of heavy-handedness. The very definition of trolling.

That of course puts us in an interesting position, and for the most part we roll our eyes and ignore his blatant baiting, but at some point enough will of course become enough.

Ironically, though, the example of abill_uk handily demonstrates that anyone claiming we are too heavy-handed here is smoking something really strong.

You are 100% wrong here and please do yourself a favour do NOT put words into my mouth ok because no way i derail anything because i am not that kind of person with destructive thoughts as you trying to imply.
You are the kind of mod that everyone just loves to hate because of the very words you use ! how blatent can you get with your sarcasm here huh?.
Heavy handed tactics should have been used on that very thread but you never did a thing, just let it roll on and on.
Ok enough now i dont want to continue a pointless discussion with someone who is blind to their own actions.

[ysss]

@abill: Can't you recognize an infinite loop?

[rich c]

Here's my thoughts (http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/blog/rich_c-403594/ask-not-what-linux-can-do-for-you-2843/) on what might be behind a lot of this that isn't just willful trolling.

[benny1967]

This is so beautiful. Pure art. Can somebody please make this a stage play - no, an opera? Philip Glass, we need you!

All I see here is people shouting in agreement - with a lot of
Today, 18:20
abill_uk
This message is hidden because abill_uk is on your ignore list.
in between.

Imagine this on stage. Characters singing their respective posts, leaving out any reference to "him". The critics would love it.

[Texrat]

@abill: Can't you recognize an infinite loop?

/me struggles to fight back urge to nominate a certain post here for Best Unintended Irony of the Day award...

[Texrat]

You are the kind of mod that everyone just loves to hate because of the very words you use !

Indeed, and that's why I fared so badly in the last council election.

Oh wait--

[daperl]

...as for me i have been burned a few times on this forum and have learned to be very tactical if not silent so this is my last input to this thread !.

I will break my silence...

It is we who have been burned; you seem immune to fire. That is a quality saved for trolls and giants. And you don't seem like the latter.

[xomm]

Ha ok when i have the time i will indeed post a few examples

Still waiting...

In the time you took to write those essays based solely on opinion, you could have found enough evidence (if there is indeed any), to write a simple statement that would disprove us all.

[chemist]

For the records:
Moderation is the process of eliminating or lessening extremes. It is used to ensure normality throughout the medium on which it is being conducted.

Silent moderation as abill requested several times now is like gambling without chips.


And I like chicken!

[sjgadsby]

Moderation is the process of eliminating or lessening extremes. It is used to ensure normality throughout the medium on which it is being conducted.


Yeah, that's us: guardians of normality.

Why do you not stop laughing?