Handset subforum @ forum.meego.com

[qgil]

Now there is a subforum specific for Handset discussion at http://forum.meego.com/forumdisplay.php?f=7

Do you think people would be less confused if the forum thread(s) to discuss the pure-open-source-rpm-MeeGo support in the N900 would be located in the new Handset subforum at meego.com?

They are fully on-topic there, and every time someone would get confused we could tell (at least for now) that the pure MeeGo is discussed mainly in meego.com (makes sense).

Even if MeeGo-Harmattan-deb-with-Nokia-apps is strictly not maemo.org, this subforum has been here for a while and there is probably something good about keeping here N900 users willing to discuss about Harmattan Ovi Maps for the N900 etc.

Every time someone would rise a topic about Nokia closed apps, Ovi services etc at meego.com we could tell that Nokia Conversations or talk.maemo.org are better places for that (makes also sense?)

[scifi.guy]

Even if MeeGo-Harmattan-deb-with-Nokia-apps is strictly not maemo.org, this subforum has been here for a while and there is probably something good about keeping here N900 users willing to discuss about Harmattan Ovi Maps for the N900 etc.

Every time someone would rise a topic about Nokia closed apps, Ovi services etc at meego.com we could tell that Nokia Conversations or talk.maemo.org are better places for that (makes also sense?)

So in basic terms, keep anything related to N900 on talk.maemo.org and Meego (from Nokia + Intel) related content/threads on forum.meego.com?

Sounds fine for me. But remember that people will still post anywhere if they are not finding answers (they want) at Conversations or TMO :)

[RogueElement]

Sounds solid to me. To reasonable layman users it does seem a little confusing but anything that opens out the possibility of a Meego UI operating on the N900 via such forums then that is surely a positive outlook.
Naturally naysayers will be as vocal as the supporters but if an open policy via open software development leads to agreeable end results then the journey is surelym worthwhile.
I've bought a ticket :)

[buurmas]

I assume that Handset is broad enough to cover non-Nokia handset projects. If so, then it would presumably be broad enough to cover "pure-open-source-rpm-MeeGo" as well. Whether or not that is too broad will remain to be seen.

[qgil]

So in basic terms, keep anything related to N900 on talk.maemo.org and Meego (from Nokia + Intel) related content/threads on forum.meego.com?

Not quite.

Push discussions about any Handset related software (for the N900, Avaa or whatever) at th Handset subforum at forum.meego.com

Push discussions about MeeGo-Harmattan and the community edition for the N900 in this forum at Talk.

Yes, people can post wherever, but we can remind them where they are more on-topic. This should help everybody understanding the difference between an official release from the MeeGo project, an official release from Nokia and the community edition of a Nokia release.

[lemmyslender]

Now there is a subforum specific for Handset discussion at http://forum.meego.com/forumdisplay.php?f=7

Do you think people would be less confused if the forum thread(s) to discuss the pure-open-source-rpm-MeeGo support in the N900 would be located in the new Handset subforum at meego.com?

They are fully on-topic there, and every time someone would get confused we could tell (at least for now) that the pure MeeGo is discussed mainly in meego.com (makes sense).

Even if MeeGo-Harmattan-deb-with-Nokia-apps is strictly not maemo.org, this subforum has been here for a while and there is probably something good about keeping here N900 users willing to discuss about Harmattan Ovi Maps for the N900 etc.

Every time someone would rise a topic about Nokia closed apps, Ovi services etc at meego.com we could tell that Nokia Conversations or talk.maemo.org are better places for that (makes also sense?)

Just my 2 cents, but why wouldn't you want to keep all related material in one place (meego.com)? It is fairly confusing as it is, trying to keep posters in the right thread, let alone trying to keep posters on the right site.

I think it would really turn people off to tell them, no that topic doesn't belong on this site, please go to this other site to discuss that, only to have them ask another question and be told that belongs back at the first site. It's a branding problem, harmatten is not really maemo, not really meego.

I wouldn't mind seeing updates here, but I think all real discussion should be kept together, probably on the meego site.

[qgil]

I assume that Handset is broad enough to cover non-Nokia handset projects. If so, then it would presumably be broad enough to cover "pure-open-source-rpm-MeeGo" as well. Whether or not that is too broad will remain to be seen.

The core purpose of forum.meego.com is to discuss about the releases of the MeeGo project, that are open source and available to any vendors. There is no exclusivity for Nokia or Intel, even if the fact that they are the initial promoters makes them so predominant.

[Texrat]

Do you think people would be less confused if the forum thread(s) to discuss the pure-open-source-rpm-MeeGo support in the N900 would be located in the new Handset subforum at meego.com?

Absolutely. And news feeds about the project to Planet here could satisfy those preferring to see some updates here.

[qgil]

Just my 2 cents, but why wouldn't you want to keep all related material in one place (meego.com)?

Things will be confusing for many users until the day there is a public MeeGo Handset UX released at meego.com AND a public MeeGo-Harmattan launch from Nokia.

Before that day comes we still have two clear groups relatively easy to distinguish:

- Users that care about "the next Nokia product" with all the commercial whistles, and how to get that running in the N900.

- Users that care about "the next MeeGo release" with all its open source glory, and how to get that running in the N900.

The confusion "only" comes when people don't understand the difference between plain MeeGo and MeeGo-Harmattan, but as soon as they get it they know pretty fast whether they care more about Ovi Maps or rpm packaging, so to say.

The proposal is to deal in this current situation with this simple separation:

- Threads about pure MeeGo running in Nokia hardware go to meego.com. At least those started by Harri/Carsten with real work behind. They belong to meego.com more than here in the first place.

- The rest stays here since most of the interested users are here anyway. Before there is a MeeGo-Harmattan launch or release most of this discussion will go around speculation, with plenty of chances of getting more noise or repetition than real signal. This is something that forum.meego.com doesn't really need at this point, if you know what I'm sayin'.

[harrihakulinen]

Things will be confusing for many users until the day there is a public MeeGo Handset UX released at meego.com AND a public MeeGo-Harmattan launch from Nokia.
...
The confusion "only" comes when people don't understand the difference between plain MeeGo and MeeGo-Harmattan, but as soon as they get it they know pretty fast whether they care more about Ovi Maps or rpm packaging, so to say.

The proposal is to deal in this current situation with this simple separation:

- Threads about pure MeeGo running in Nokia hardware go to meego.com. At least those started by Harri/Carsten with real work behind. They belong to meego.com more than here in the first place.


I agree with almost everything you said.
But, IMHO, the best way to reduce confusion would be to call Harmattan (on any hw) plainly "Harmattan", at least in maemo.org.

("MeeGo-Harmattan" is OK as well, if you insist ;) )

But for example in the subject on your 'N900 community support for the future MeeGo based release from Nokia' thread you have used ONLY "MeeGo" and that confused at least me for quite some time.

Br,
//Harri

[johnel]

I agree with almost everything you said.
But, IMHO, the best way to reduce confusion would be to call Harmattan (on any hw) plainly "Harmattan", at least in maemo.org.

("MeeGo-Harmattan" is OK as well, if you insist ;) )

But for example in the subject on your 'N900 community support for the future MeeGo based release from Nokia' thread you have used ONLY "MeeGo" and that confused at least me for quite some time.

Br,
//Harri

I agree. I was(still?) confused with meego/harmattan.

But the naming is still confusing.

Throughout the discussions meego has been associated/interchanged with Harmattan and caused a lot of confusion (for me anyway!).

It would make sense to associate harmattan with maemo6 and not necessarily with meego.

"Harmattan" = maemo6 (with meego compatibility?)
"MeeGo" = MeeGo Core + MeeGo UI?

If we try an keep this distinction it will be a lot clearer.

[TheBootroo]

for me :

MeeGo is the core and the concept (linux kernel 2.6.33, qt4.6, multitasking)
Harmattan is the UI framework, based on Qt4.6, and shared with Symbian^4
MeeGo Handset UX will use Harmattan framework
Nokia's DuiHome uses Harmattan too

Normal meego 1.1 devices will have MeeGo Core + Meego Handset UX + RPM + MeeGo Apps
N900 and maybe next device from Nokia will have : MeeGo Core + DuiHome + DEB + Nokia Apps

that's all !

[jsa]

@TheBootroo

Harmattan is the whole software product that will be on Nokia's next Linux handset, not just the UI framework. The UI Framework is based on Qt 4.6 but is not shared with Symbian^4. Symbian has it's own 'UI Extensions for Mobile' (formerly Orbit) framework.

N900 will have MeeGo vanilla. Possibly also Harmattan.

[harrihakulinen]

for me :

MeeGo is the core and the concept (linux kernel 2.6.33, qt4.6, multitasking)
Harmattan is the UI framework, based on Qt4.6, and shared with Symbian^4
MeeGo Handset UX will use Harmattan framework
Nokia's DuiHome uses Harmattan too

Normal meego 1.1 devices will have MeeGo Core + Meego Handset UX + RPM + MeeGo Apps
N900 and maybe next device from Nokia will have : MeeGo Core + DuiHome + DEB + Nokia Apps
that's all !

Not exactly:

Harmattan is the whole Maemo6 sw project for next Nokia device, including almost everything for it.

Harmattan UI framework (former DUI) is nowadays called "MeeGo touch framework".

(based on that you can continue on speculative mode .. )

Br,
//Harri

[qgil]

Can we go back to the topic of this thread, please? :)

- Users that care about "the next Nokia product" with all the commercial whistles, and how to get that running in the N900: stay in this forum.

- Users that care about "the next release of the MeeGo project" with all its open source glory, and how to get that running in the N900: go to http://forum.meego.com/

[bzhbok]

I think if people get confused, it is because the situation is confusing...

Harmattan being used as a cover name for some MeeGo stuff... you can't blame people for mixing up...

(Don't wait too much to make it goes out in the open,too much people got it ... and sorry to spoil, couldn't resist :D )

[Venemo]

The confusion "only" comes when people don't understand the difference between plain MeeGo and MeeGo-Harmattan

The confusion comes from renaming "Maemo 6" to "MeeGo".

[quipper8]

My two cents:

call meego core Plain Meego or Basic Meego

call harmattan Nokia Meego

when Aava comes out with a meego device with their own bits on top we call that Aava Meego, etc

or we could go the Android route, post pending the distinguishing bit

Android Google(nexus one)
Android Motoblur
Android SenseUI
Android Smart Life

[qgil]

I'm happy discussing about names but not in this thread that has the specific purpose of getting a decision about the topic proposed. There is already a sticky topic about naming.

So this is the recommendation for next steps:

- Harri and Carsten, please close your current threads about official meego.com projects linkiing to the new threads at the Handset subforum at http://forum.meego.com . Thanks!

- Please recommend anybody else to bring to that forum any topic related to pure meego.com project or releases.

[Stskeeps]

I'm happy discussing about names but not in this thread that has the specific purpose of getting a decision about the topic proposed. There is already a sticky topic about naming.

So this is the recommendation for next steps:

- Harri and Carsten, please close your current threads about official meego.com projects linkiing to the new threads at the Handset subforum at http://forum.meego.com . Thanks!


Done my part (N8x0 thread, not sure there were others?), moved it and reported my own post to close thread.

Should we be emphasise that this forum (MeeGo / Harmattan) isn't MeeGo or Harmattan, but MeeGo - Harmattan somewhere then?