[Petition] For Nokia to Open 100% of the Closed Components in Maemo 5/n900

[cfh11]

As Nokia focuses more and more attention on Meego/Harmattan, it appears that the majority of the responsibility of supporting the existing platform of Maemo 5/Fremantle will fall on the community. However, with some components (such as the phone stack) being closed, it is impossible to develop some solutions without Nokia's assistance. Therefore, I am would like to request from Nokia that we receive ALL source code for Maemo 5 and/or the n900 in order to more effectively support the n900.

We need a system in place that allows us to resolve bugs in real time (similar to the app approval process) and releasing all source code for Maemo 5 and the n900 is the first step towards this becoming a reality. Waiting months for massive firmware updates is not how open source should work!

Disclaimer: I am not a developer, so if anything I have said above doesn't make sense please don't bash me too hard :) I do, however, try to do my part in helping with testing.

[nosa101]

At the end of the day, Nokia is still a business and I doubt they'd want a closed source competitor snatch up some proprietary code in the name of being open source.

Even if there's an NDA, look at the Ovi Suite Beta thing. Some people just don't know when to STFU.

Maybe sharing some closed code with some trusted developers like they are doing on the MeeGo project.

[qwerty12]

Ha, good luck with that. The closed components of Diablo are staying closed. I'll suck my own dick if we ever see the closed Diablo components.

[rickysio]

The existence of Mer indicates that Nokia could be willing to do it.

[cfh11]

It may be a long shot, but it doesn't hurt to try. Please either indicate your support here or refrain from replying so we can keep this thread clean.

[johnel]

The major closed components are the ones that control access to the hardware (e.g. battery management, phone/modem hardware).

I know the developers over at MeeGo are working on some solutions to reduce/remove closed components. If it ever becomes a reality then the code can hopefully be shared.

As far as I know the opengl drivers are written by a third-party and may never be open-sourced.

I'll suck my own dick if we ever see the closed Diablo components
What more can you ask for? open source components and free porn!
:).

[quipper8]

well, some of it is probably not up to nokia to open at all. nokia likely has license agreements with ti and other chip manufacturers for that stuffthat they cant just violate.

it is not going to happen, doesnt matter if you have a million signatures on a petition, give up now

[quipper8]

Ha, good luck with that. The closed components of Diablo are staying closed. I'll suck my own dick if we ever see the closed Diablo components.

if you are capable of this, why would you wait for opening diablo stuff to do it. talk about self control, wow

[johnel]

if you are capable of this, why would you wait for opening diablo stuff to do it. talk about self control, wow

Maybe he's just showing off!

[bjknight]

Any chance of honouring the OP's request to keep this to affirmative petition responses and not chatter on the subject?

I would like Nokia to make this code open.

[johnel]

Actually is Mer still an active project now that MeeGo is being developed?


Dear Nokia please open source your stuff because:
(1) It fosters a happy community who will buy more of your products.
(2) You can return the favour of open source helping you to develop your products
(3) It's good publicity
(4) You will be entertained by qwerty12 trying to pleasure himself.

[wmarone]

I believe Mer has been retired. Since MeeGo will have a fully open stack (save a handful of drivers) Stskeeps is already working to coordinate a port for the N8x0 series devices.

[ffffffuuuuuu]

i support this petition. this os is going down the drain unless nokia decides to redeem itself by opening its code to developers.



on another note, why are posters like nosa101 such negative dolts? they keep storming threads as if they are the voice for nokia. shills. if you don't agree with this petition please don't give us your short sighted feedback. we don't need you to tell us your take on the issue because it's just counter-productive to the whole process of making maemo better for everyone. your mere presence in this sort of thread might be directly linked to maemo's failure so please go away. if you're sick and tired of stumbling into constant posts then quietly ignore them just like in any other forum. and yes, this is just like any other forum.


nosa, remember this little lady, you're not in kansas anymore... don't get mad. you can apply for nokia if you feel like you've got something better to offer than the petition itself.

[pelago]

I would love to see this too. Mainly my interest is for the Nokia closed source applications (like File Manager, Contacts, Media Player and the browser UI) to be open-sourced, so that the community can fix bugs/add features as desired. However, I see very little chance of this happening.

MeeGo will apparently have open-source "reference" implementation of the above applications, which is a good step forward, although Nokia may still be coding up their own closed-source alternatives for their MeeGo devices. Without knowing the difference in capabilities between the open-source and closed-source apps, it is difficult to know how much of a problem this will be in the future.

[wmarone]

Without knowing the difference in capabilities between the open-source and closed-source apps, it is difficult to know how much of a problem this will be in the future.
There should be no issue, really, if there's an open-source version. If anything, it'd be better as the existing media player on the N900 is generally terrible (I have never gotten the thing to play back video.)

[Dr.Marcial]

I would like to see nokia opening their source code, specially the phone app code so the community can fix it and make the n900 a good phone and not only a good mobile computer with phone capabilities :P

[theflew]

Don't forget in some cases Nokia might not have a license to distribute the source. Nokia doesn't not design the Cortex processor, GSM, etc. The rights to these are purchased from their respective manufactures for Nokia to use under contract which might not include distributing the source.

[wmarone]

Nokia doesn't not design the Cortex processor
There are no issues regarding the CPU itself. It's the graphics chip that's the problem.

GSM
I'm pretty sure they did, but that's a trade secret for them.

[maartenmk]

Don't forget in some cases Nokia might not have a license to distribute the source. Nokia doesn't not design the Cortex processor, GSM, etc. The rights to these are purchased from their respective manufactures for Nokia to use under contract which might not include distributing the source.

It would already help if they only distribute what they do have. If that includes the camera for example, it may open up the possibility to fix the video stuttering issue, which Nokia themselves have apparently set to Wontfix :(

[nosa101]

on another note, why are posters like nosa101 such negative dolts? they keep storming threads as if they are the voice for nokia. shills. if you don't agree with this petition please don't give us your short sighted feedback. we don't need you to tell us your take on the issue because it's just counter-productive to the whole process of making maemo better for everyone. your mere presence in this sort of thread might be directly linked to maemo's failure so please go away. if you're sick and tired of stumbling into constant posts then quietly ignore them just like in any other forum. and yes, this is just like any other forum.


nosa, remember this little lady, you're not in kansas anymore... don't get mad. you can apply for nokia if you feel like you've got something better to offer than the petition itself.

I really don't get the point of the personal attack

I am holding back Maemo's progress because I gave a possible reason for the closed nature of the code?

Where is the petition anyway?

Nokia has every right to withhold code if they choose to, it may be unfair but it is true.

Nokia is sharing some closed components on the "MeeGo to N900" project and that is a very good thing.

[uTMY]

It is a good thing but what they should realise is the quicker they can make a fully open phone then the sooner they take market share off of Apple.

The more open it is the more the community will be able to help them make a world class phone.

Opening the code does not necessirly mean it has to be GPL they could open the code to be modified only for this device, no rights on other devices for instance.

Opening the code does not transfer copyrights in much the same way as reading a book does not make you the owner of the book.

Trouble is it takes closed minded corporate managers a long time to realise this is the best/most profitable way on the route to opensource!

My vote goes towards opening the code.

rgds

[nosa101]

Trouble is it takes closed minded corporate managers a long time to realise this is the best/most profitable way on the route to opensource!


But this hasn't been proven. I might be ignorant but I do not recall any company that has gone the open source route and remained competitive.

[aldevil]

Giving the Full Open Source of Maemo 5 to TRUSTED Developers is a good idea.. But you know wat NOKIA means, NO HOPE!!! That is why im trying to sell my N900 from NOW!

[Venemo]

But this hasn't been proven. I might be ignorant but I do not recall any company that has gone the open source route and remained competitive.

Do you recall Intel?

Actually is Mer still an active project now that MeeGo is being developed?

I seriously doubt it.

[wmarone]

Do you recall Intel?
I think you mean Redhat. Intel maintains profitability by pumping out chips like nobody's business. Effectively, the same thing could be said for Nokia, who sells handsets.

They could totally offset the open sourcing of their software by offering services to owners of Nokia branded devices, the catch would be getting around the incompetence that is interfering with their services delivery for the N900.

[cfh11]

Sigh... I guess no thread is safe from hijackers. PLEASE - only post replies if you support this initiative.

Otherwise, go here http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=703730 and have at it.

[nosa101]

Do you recall Intel?


Fair enough and I did admit to being ignorant. I didn't know Intel was open source. But seeing as intel is not in the mobile device (or established) market, I can see why Nokia would be apprehensive.

To me, it could be a big risk. They could be wildly successful or they could fail woefully. Nothing in-between and that thought sounds scary to most managers. They could, however, use the n900 as a case study for open source development. I am willing to be a guinea pig.

[nosa101]

Sigh... I guess no thread is safe from hijackers. PLEASE - only post replies if you support this initiative.

Otherwise, go here http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=703730 and have at it.

How is this petition going to Nokia? Through this thread or do we have to sign something somewhere?

[cfh11]

How is this petition going to Nokia? Through this thread or do we have to sign something somewhere?

I am just gauging support at the moment. If there are enough votes I will put together something more official I think.

Everyone please take a moment to vote in the poll I just added.

[nosa101]

I am just gauging support at the moment. If there are enough votes I will put together something more official I think.

Everyone please take a moment to vote in the poll I just added.

Didn't see the poll until now

[cfh11]

Didn't see the poll until now

That would be my fault, didn't add it until just now :o

[Stskeeps]

We already had this discussion. Main points: Nokia applications are closed source and it's more important we spend time opening as much regarding the hardware interfacing parts as needed so we can bring a proper MeeGo on to the devices.

Nokia's stance on their applications: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=532930&postcount=8

Discussions: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=688409 (from Master of Gizmo's proposal at post 17 and down)

I'd like to remind everyone of the licensing change requests queue: http://wiki.maemo.org/Open_development/Licensing_change_requests

As a personal question to people here: Did you know that the e-mail client of Maemo5 is called Modest and is open source (http://gitorious.org/modest/)? Have you submitted any patches or contributed to it? That the RSS reader is open source? That Marbles, Chess and Mahjong games are open source? That the PDF reader is? That the X-terminal is? That the Hildon Desktop is?

There's nothing more sad than spending several manhours on open sourcing an application and hearing the sound of crickets when it does arrive. Noone contributing to improve it. How about we make targetted requests and show who's ready to contribute if something was open sourced instead? And also, most of you are going to stop caring about Maemo5 when real MeeGo comes around, even on another device. History clearly shows that.

If you want 100% open source (by that, I mean the platform excluding some hardware adaptation bits), go help out in MeeGo. Make reference / open source applications that are -better- than what Nokia can come up with. I bet you can.

[nosa101]

As a personal question to people here: Did you know that the e-mail client of Maemo5 is called Modest and is open source? Have you submitted any patches or contributed to it?
.

THIS

Considering a lot of people have issues with Modest, surely some special fellow could help with this.
http://modest.garage.maemo.org/

[cfh11]

@Stskeeps - thanks alot for weighing in here. I wasn't aware that these discussions had already taken place.

As I stated in my initial disclaimer, I am not a dev and know very little about coding. But I am learning more every day and contributing where I can (even if it is just starting an active discussion here) My primary concern is opening the platform in a way that bugs can be resolved more quickly by the community rather than semi-annually in massive Nokia firmware updates.

I am also somewhat concerned at this point about Meego, as it will not be officially supported and the handset UX is not due for sometime. Not to mention we all bought the device with Maemo and may prefer to stick with it even if Meego is fully functional.

[Stskeeps]

I am also somewhat concerned at this point about Meego, as it will not be officially supported and the handset UX is not due for sometime. Not to mention we all bought the device with Maemo and may prefer to stick with it even if Meego is fully functional.

There's a perfectly functional community SSU for the N8x0's, same model can be used on Maemo5. Handset UX development should be opened sometime this month, as far as I know. Reminder: this is not the same as a release.

[Venemo]

Intel maintains profitability by pumping out chips like nobody's business. Effectively, the same thing could be said for Nokia, who sells handsets.

Yes.
Basically, Nokia gains money from selling hardware, not software.
They would lose nothing by releasing all of the source code.

They could totally offset the open sourcing of their software by offering services to owners of Nokia branded devices, the catch would be getting around the incompetence that is interfering with their services delivery for the N900.

Exactly my point.
Still, the N900 was only an "experiment" from them.
If they can learn from its mistakes, the next tablet product will be a success.

[cfh11]

There's a perfectly functional community SSU for the N8x0's, same model can be used on Maemo5.

Now we're talking. If we could get minor fixes on a monthly or bi-monthly basis I would be more than satisfied.

I just have a problem with huge firmware updates that have only been QA tested internally @Nokia. Invariably, once released to the community more bugs will be discovered. Now, if they were released more frequently, this would be less of an issue.

And yes, I am aware of the irony of hijacking my own thread. :cool:

[slaapliedje]

At the end of the day, Nokia is still a business and I doubt they'd want a closed source competitor snatch up some proprietary code in the name of being open source.

Even if there's an NDA, look at the Ovi Suite Beta thing. Some people just don't know when to STFU.

Maybe sharing some closed code with some trusted developers like they are doing on the MeeGo project.

Yeah, I don't know how anyone can break the almighty NDA.. oh wait that was sarcasm. You agree to it just like you agree to EULAs. But besides that.. there isn't much to talk about with the Ovi Suite Beta.. unless I'm missing something (never really used the original).

Anyhow, I will agree that it would be great if we could have a 100% open source phone, but I just don't see it happening. It's more likely that nVidia would publish specs to their video cards...

slaapliedje

[uTMY]

But this hasn't been proven. I might be ignorant but I do not recall any company that has gone the open source route and remained competitive.

Redhat?

Novell?

[nosa101]

Redhat?

Novell?

"I might be ignorant"

"I do not recall"

#carryon

[uTMY]

Fair enough and I did admit to being ignorant. I didn't know Intel was open source. But seeing as intel is not in the mobile device (or established) market, I can see why Nokia would be apprehensive.

To me, it could be a big risk. They could be wildly successful or they could fail woefully. Nothing in-between and that thought sounds scary to most managers. They could, however, use the n900 as a case study for open source development. I am willing to be a guinea pig.

Nokia just signed up to a partnership with Intel and Novell to do er let me think ... opensource MEEGO.

If you use an N900 then a large portion is already Open Source, the world hasn't stopped turning, the sky didn't fall in, continental drift kept drifting and you sir are already a guinea pig and Nokia is still making money.

So I'm curious, where is this big risk you perceive?

IBM has signed tier1 strategic partnerships with Novell (SuSE) and Redhat to deliver appliance based services based on Opensource platforms.

Even Google is now as near as makes no difference 100% opensource across the board, system delivery and internal users and they also make money.

Specious comments about no profit and huge risks using opensource are just wrong on their face as has been demonstrated many times already.

rgds

[nosa101]

Nokia just signed up to a partnership with Intel and Novell to do er let me think ... opensource MEEGO.

If you use an N900 then a large portion is already Open Source, the world hasn't stopped turning, the sky didn't fall in, continental drift kept drifting and you sir are already a guinea pig and Nokia is still making money.

rgds

Jesus Christ! Is it 100% open source as the OP suggested? No it isn't. There are closed parts and there are reasons for that.

[ffffffuuuuuu]

nosa101 STFU

[jacekowski]

well, maybe they don't want to open some components just because their code is so bad - at least that's what i'm thinking after my recent discovery - which is BME reading register 0x3b from battery charger ( http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/bq24150.pdf ), and according to manual that register doesn't exist and only reason why it doesn't fail is because charger ignores higher 5 bits of address so 0x3b (0b00111011) becames 0x03 (0b00000011)

/usr/sbin/bme_RX-51
.text:000191B4 MOV R0, #0x3B ; ';'
.text:000191B8 BL I2C_ChargerReadWrapper
...
.text:00019188 I2C_ChargerReadWrapper
...
.text:00019190 BL I2C_ChargerRead
...
.text:000160A8 I2C_ChargerRead
.text:000160A8 STMFD SP!, {R4,R5,R11,LR}
.text:000160AC LDR R3, =file_descriptors
.text:000160B0 ADD R11, SP, #0xC
.text:000160B4 SUB SP, SP, #0x30
.text:000160B8 MOV R5, R1
.text:000160BC STRB R0, [R11,#i2c_smbus_data] ; bq24150 register
.text:000160C0 MOV R1, #0x720 ; request
.text:000160C4 LDR R0, [R3,#8] ; fd
.text:000160C8 SUB R2, R11, #-data_addr ; address to data
.text:000160CC MOV R3, #2
.text:000160D0 MOV R4, #1 ; read
.text:000160D4 STR R3, [R11,#var_14] ; ???
.text:000160D8 SUB R12, R11, #-var_3A
.text:000160DC STRB R4, [R11,#data_addr]
.text:000160E0 STR R12, [R11,#oldR4]
.text:000160E4 BL ioctl

[uTMY]

Jesus Christ! Is it 100% open source as the OP suggested? No it isn't. There are closed parts and there are reasons for that.

There are reasons but I bet none of them are due to potential risk in using opensource code.

They will most likely be due to closed license drivers for specific bits of hardware and Nokia has stated aim that Meego will move towards fully opensource effectively making your position untenable.

I suspect the closed elements will dwindle quite rapidly.

rgds

[nosa101]

nosa101 STFU

Seriously?


Specious comments about no profit and huge risks using opensource are just wrong on their face as has been demonstrated many times by people that have not thought it through to the end game.

I am not against Nokia opening their code but if they refuse to, I can understand why. There hasn't been any precedent set by a mobile device company to show that Open Source is the way. Even Android is not 100% open source. If there is no precedent, I can see why a Nokia manager would have reservations towards this move

[cfh11]

Drop the personal attacks, please.

[Optln]

I don't really understand this closed source thing in old, non-active software. I mean what would any company will lose, if they release a couple lines of code. Is it really that important. I think only thing that will change is the open source community's respect to that company.

But this hasn't been proven. I might be ignorant but I do not recall any company that has gone the open source route and remained competitive.

There's ID Software, a pure software company which gain their revenue mostly from the engine sales. And they released every single one of their engine's source in GPL license except the one they're actively developing that time. And because of that, we can play ID's games in many platforms(including N900). They'll release IDTech4's(Doom3 engine) license this year too. I guess we will see a Doom 3 port in N900 too after that.

[w00t]

Jesus Christ! Is it 100% open source as the OP suggested? No it isn't. There are closed parts and there are reasons for that.

This goes a bit off-topic, but it's still probably important to note.

The MeeGo project itself actually is (or should be, as far as I'm aware -- if it's not, you should probably raise it on meego-dev) fully open source.

People can take the core MeeGo distribution and put closed elements into it, as has been done for the partially closed N900 adaptation (to provide BME, accelerated graphics, etc) - but that is not the core distribution, that's an individual hardware adaptation.

(Also worth noting that there is a fully open adaptation for the n900 which doesn't include these closed components, but has reduced functionality as a result).

Stskeeps: if I'm wrong, please correct me on the above. :)

[qwerty12]

We already had this discussion. Main points: Nokia applications are closed source[...]

Just because Nokia has made a (shitty) decision doesn't make it a right one.
[...]so we can bring a proper MeeGo on to the devices.

Couldn't give two shits about MeeGo. Even if the N900 gets MeeGo (in whatever form), it'll still be an OS laden with closed source components, thanks to Nokia.


I'd like to remind everyone of the licensing change requests queue: http://wiki.maemo.org/Open_development/Licensing_change_requests


Please... that's a joke. All the discussions re. requests are stagnant.
Hell, the one request I made to change the licensing of a component with its source already available in an open source program (I know; I was surprised too) has produced nothing.

Do I even need to mention the amount of WONTFIXES here (https://bugs.maemo.org/buglist.cgi?query_format=advanced&short_desc_type=allwordssubstr&short_desc=&classification=Maemo+Official+Platform&product=Licensing+Change+Requests&long_desc_type=substring&long_desc=&bug_file_loc_type=allwordssubstr&bug_file_loc=&status_whiteboard_type=allwordssubstr&status_whiteboard=&keywords_type=allwords&keywords=&bug_status=RESOLVED&bug_status=VERIFIED&bug_status=CLOSED&emailassigned_to1=1&emailtype1=substring&email1=&emailassigned_to2=1&emailreporter2=1&emailqa_contact2=1&emailcc2=1&emailtype2=substring&email2=&bugidtype=include&bug_id=&votes=&chfieldfrom=&chfieldto=Now&chfieldvalue=&cmdtype=doit&order=Reuse+same+sort+as+last+time&field0-0-0=noop&type0-0-0=noop&value0-0-0=)?


As a personal question to people here: Did you know that the e-mail client of Maemo5 is called Modest and is open source (http://gitorious.org/modest/)? Have you submitted any patches or contributed to it? That the RSS reader is open source? That Marbles, Chess and Mahjong games are open source? That the PDF reader is? That the X-terminal is? That the Hildon Desktop is?

Have some personalised replies, then.


Modest: Don't use it for its main ability. Tho I must admit that it does make a brilliant email notifier.
RSS Reader: Don't use it. I think mant prefer FeedingIt over the stock reader.
Games: Don't play 'em.
PDF Reader: Its XPDF engine is outdated as ****, and I don't ever recall seeing the patches that were uploaded for Diablo's version ever making it in Fremantle. One incentive lost. (jott's rotation support is a brilliant example of this. Silence for God knows how many months and then a FIXEDINFREMANTLE message)
X-Terminal: Yes, I have hacked on it in the past. The X Terminal team did listen to some requests, however, so I can't criticise there.
Hildon Desktop: Ah yes, a package which depends on closed source components. But to answer the question: No, not me. But Matan has and I don't believe I've seen his patches in PR 1.2, despite asking on -developers how he could do so.



There's nothing more sad than spending several manhours on open sourcing an application and hearing the sound of crickets when it does arrive. Noone contributing to improve it.


Right, how do we know it takes that long? I mean, Nokia aren't exactly masters of communication (yes, the irony is not beyond me) - the licensing queue shows that.
And Nokia always seem to go the closed source route first. Take fmtx-middleware. A new component, introduced in Fremantle. You'd have hoped that Mer - which Nokia was obviously aware of - would've enlighted them somewhat. Why was it produced being closed source in the first place? It's bloody ironic due to Nokia contributing an open source driver for the transmitter to the kernel.

The community have modified some open source components; I named a couple above. There's more, however, like mafw-gst-subtitles-renderer, based on mafw-gst-renderer.

Oh, mafw-gst-subtitles-renderer was born out of a Brainstorm. Half of those requests can't be fulfilled as they have to be done in one of Nokia's closed components. I'm sure someone would be happy to do it if Nokia didn't close source many of their stuff. I mean, Nokia don't give a **** about what's in Brainstorm - how many requests from Brainstorm have been fixed by a Nokia employee?


How about we make targetted requests and show who's ready to contribute if something was open sourced instead?


The Queue shows why that doesn't work.


And also, most of you are going to stop caring about Maemo5 when real MeeGo comes around, even on another device. History clearly shows that.


Nope. I'm after Diablo's components. Things like BME I'll never have a ****'s chance of understanding - that's a given - but other things that Nokia keep closed (to add insult, the headers aren't even available in nokia-binaries), like libconnui, sure.


Make reference / open source applications that are -better- than what Nokia can come up with. I bet you can.

Easier said than done. Easier said than done.

Anyway, amongst all this arguing, Nokia aren't gonna be changing their ways. I doubt I'll be going down anytime soon.

[SD69]

There's a perfectly functional community SSU for the N8x0's, same model can be used on Maemo5. So that people don't get the wrong impression, let's also point out that the community SSU for the N8x0's has been hampered by the refusal to open closed components

Components kept closed (http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=699617&postcount=461)

[Stskeeps]

Anyway, amongst all this arguing, Nokia aren't gonna be changing their ways. I doubt I'll be going down anytime soon.

Don't shoot the messenger though. My role in the licensing change requests is to prioritize so it can be put into the internal machinery by a Nokia employee. That it seems to be a black hole to some is not my fault. No matter how much I kick and scream, there's going to be someone putting a thumbs up or down internally. And sometimes this can take ages. I'm frustrated by it too.

What I -do- know is that there's actively going work into open sourcing bits for MeeGo on N900. Including the phone stack. Limiting the blobs eases everyone's work.

Frankly, I'm tired of talk.maemo.org turning into a cesspool of negativity. I want to -do things-, not spend days on end arguing about things I can't change or should be defending choices made by Nokia. I'm not your punching bag for Nokia's faults.

Instead of punching me, how about you (not you qwerty12 specifically) tell me what I realistically can do to help you move things ahead?

Regarding that one request, I have bumped it recently to regain attention to the merge request. It's all there and waiting - but I can't do licensing changes legally. Not my job or my right to do.

[Stskeeps]

So that people don't get the wrong impression, let's also point out that the community SSU for the N8x0's has been hampered by the refusal to open closed components

Components kept closed (http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=699617&postcount=461)

That URL doesn't give me any information on specific components you want relicensing, just meta discussion outside the queue.

[Stskeeps]

Adding some extra comments as qwerty12 is a guy I respect very much.


And Nokia always seem to go the closed source route first. Take fmtx-middleware. A new component, introduced in Fremantle. You'd have hoped that Mer - which Nokia was obviously aware of - would've enlighted them somewhat. Why was it produced being closed source in the first place? It's bloody ironic due to Nokia contributing an open source driver for the transmitter to the kernel.


Agreed. This is one of the big problems in Maemo and has always been a problem. It is harder to open source than to push something out closed source. I'm not sure if their stance is changing regarding MeeGo, but in order to help things along, I hope they do.

I mean, Nokia don't give a **** about what's in Brainstorm - how many requests from Brainstorm have been fixed by a Nokia employee?

The Queue shows why that doesn't work.


And that there's some /dev/null's or processes that haven't worked. I -personally- don't like Brainstorm as it was originally slow (thanks to new servers, this is less bad), but it was utterly incomprehensible in terms of getting any sane input for things. And as with any process, since we as a community don't own the Maemo product, someone has to approve and make it happen internally. And it's not easy making things happen or turn around the ship. I've pointed this out before - that we aren't in charge of the ship.

This is really the problem. We have to fight from 43% open source.

My -professional- hope is that we'll have to work with a 100% open source platform, open reference apps, some but limited hardware adaptation blobs and some 'vendor specific' apps. The hill is less steep to push the stone of open sourcing up of in MeeGo. At least with MeeGo, it should be possible to see how the product is made so people get an understanding of the processes.


Nope. I'm after Diablo's components. Things like BME I'll never have a ****'s chance of understanding - that's a given - but other things that Nokia keep closed (to add insult, the headers aren't even available in nokia-binaries), like libconnui, sure.


You know me well enough to know that I think some of the things are utter WTF's of why they're closed source. libcityinfo comes to mind. At least I've tried to help set up a process so we can solve these things sanely. I haven't set it up to be a /dev/null.

[cfh11]

bump.. I hate to see a post about iphone 4 get 200+ posts while more important discussions like this fall by the wayside. So realistically, how much improvement would we see in Meego? Would smaller fixes be pushed out more frequently or would it be more of the same?

It just kills me when there are clear issues and people with the willingness and knowledge to fix them but they can't due to bureaucratic hurdles (this applies to everything, not just software).

[Creamy Goodness]

geez, yeah that is sad. I guess this topic can't accomplish much, if some management at Nokia hasn't realized the mistake by now. What they need is some bad press or something that will lead to embarrassment and then perhaps a change of policy. Maybe if we get about 10k signatures we can get some press coverage? We should write a petition app and put it in the repository, lol.

[Fencer Darkwind]

I do hope they open the components up, at least the drivers -_-

[SavageD]

Should change this petition to "Should nokia bring Flash 10 to n900"...

Hell...we should spam nokia with a **** load of petitions to make em understand all the **** they have been doing....

[marioaguado]

yes, how we can continue with this, we need to put more pressure to nokia to give us the driver what more we can do to continue with this!!!

[ZogG]

it's useless, wouldn't work. if they would care they would support or at least answer questions.

[jjx]

As a personal question to people here: Did you know that the e-mail client of Maemo5 is called Modest and is open source (http://gitorious.org/modest/)? Have you submitted any patches or contributed to it? That the RSS reader is open source? That Marbles, Chess and Mahjong games are open source? That the PDF reader is? That the X-terminal is? That the Hildon Desktop is?

First let me make clear I agree with your general point.

Personally I don't use Modest, RSS, Marbles, Chess or Mahjong. PDF reader seems usable except when it fails to display a file entirely, and the X-terminal is quite good although a bit slow. Modest is just the wrong style of email reader for me.

What I personally have wanted to address were video playback, GPS handling (including straight up bugs in Ovi Maps) and annoyances in the Wifi connection setup.

Maybe it's just unlucky that the things which I want to poke at are the closed ones.

[RFS-81]

I hope they'll release as much as possible when they're "done" with Maemo. I don't believe 100% is possible though (due to who knows what evil IP issues).