MeeGo is N-Series future - N8 to be Last Symbian Device

[etuoyo]

Forgive me if posted already.

http://www.engadget.com/2010/06/23/nokia-n8-to-be-final-symbian-device-in-n-series-all-meego-from/

Great news for Nokia fans I would think. But who will get an N8 now knowing it is for an abandoned platform for smart phones (apart from the very casual phone buyers rather than educated smartphone buyers).

Title should of course say last N series device.

[adancau]

it's not an abandoned platform, nokia is still going to use it, just that it won't put out any new symbian N-series phones, only meego (at least if we can trust the article). symbian phones will be mainstream, while for the n-series nokia will employ only meego. symbian won't go away for at least some years now, and is definitely NOT an abandoned platform.

[cfh11]

I think the writing was on the wall long before the official announcement but good to hear nonetheless. Now just counting the days until the first peek at Meego Handset UX on the 30th....

[kojacker]

Thread title needs changed

Great news that MeeGo will be the sole OS for the N-series, and a definite shot in the arm for raising MeeGo interest and awareness.

[scifi.guy]

Isn't it typical Nokia way of doing things? Announce a decent phone and kill the OS.

Anyway I feel S60 crossed its lifespan and needs to die. Symbian^3 and the proposed Symbian^4 just add unnecessary confusion in Nokia's high-end smartphone space. Now they should concentrate more on Meego and get a killer device out by end of this year (or sooner).

[NvyUs]

if this is true it changes nothing as symbian is still on C series, Xseries, eseries and will still have massive user base compared to any other OS.
not sure the sources can be trusted

[juise-]

Title should of course say last N series device.

Maybe you should fix it, instead of just mentioning it in the post. (Edit: Ok, nice, it's fixed already)

But yes, sounds like good news to me, if it's true.

[tissot]

If true it's very good news. Nokia has already for a time been talking about getting N series to mean the same it was in 2001-2007. It has been far cry from those days and so have been the sales too.

High end=N series=MeeGo

[chfyfx]

Saw that coming.

It is definitely good direction for Nokia. It is just a little radical considering N8 is not even out yet. I sense that Nokia is firing the person who leaked this.

[jnwi]

Since next year's N8 will now obviously be the touch only MeeGo device everyone is expecting, either there still won't be a direct iPhone competitor or there will be a change in positioning.

Continuing like this, the N9 will be superior, but in a different form factor, while the N8-01 will have cheaper hardware in the iPhone's form factor.

Not attacking competitors' devices 1:1 is important for avoiding price wars, but in this case I suspect the decision will be made based on how they want to do their advertising. Personally, I'd want to see an expensive N8-01, with some other series picking up the slack.

[chemist]

You might want to read the source before you reply (even the OP overlook the key elements by forking the content with a faulty parser)! It does tell that future N-Series won't get Symbian no more. Symbian is yet to be Symbian^3 and at least Symbian^4 is planned. So that's nothing to worry about for anyone who owns or thinks about buying any N-Series Symbian^X device! It is just another note that Nokia is definitely going full pull on MeeGo for future N-Series devices. Period.

[johnel]

I'm sure something like this was said at the end of 2009.

Maemo for high-end devices and symbian for less-featured phones.

Until there is an official announcement then I'm not convinced.

[SAABoy]

at first i wasnt interested in the N8, but now I am... whats wrong with me? maybe the rest of my consumer electronics career will be effected by my n900 trauma...

[volt]

Isn't it typical Nokia way of doing things? Announce a decent phone and kill the OS.


I am not quite sure that "kill the OS" is the right wording here. Nokia has, as we've seen, started up a few new "letter" series. Between S-series, E-series, X-series, and C-series, the only real surprise is that these devices inherit the "N" instead of moving to the "M-series". This is really not about abandoning Symbian, but changing the naming schemes.

As I see it, anyway.

[Dave999]

wait. I've seen this before. n900 is the last maemo in n-series. n8 is the last symbian in n-series and n9 will be the last meego device in n-series( just not announced yet).

still waiting for weego.

[mmlado]

wait. I've seen this before. n900 is the last maemo in n-series. n8 is the last symbian in n-series and n9 will be the last meego device in n-series( just not announced yet).

still waiting for weego.

Let me fix that for you.

...and n9 will be the last meego-harmattan (meego compatible) device in n-series( just not announced yet)...

:D

[nosa101]

I'm sure something like this was said at the end of 2009.

Maemo for high-end devices and symbian for less-featured phones.

Until there is an official announcement then I'm not convinced.

there has been an official announcement.
http://mynokiablog.com/2010/05/29/video-meego-qa-with-alberto-torres-nokia-evp-meego-computers-at-openmobile/

[tissot]

You might want to read the source before you reply (even the OP overlook the key elements by forking the content with a faulty parser)! It does tell that future N-Series won't get Symbian no more. Symbian is yet to be Symbian^3 and at least Symbian^4 is planned. So that's nothing to worry about for anyone who owns or thinks about buying any N-Series Symbian^X device! It is just another note that Nokia is definitely going full pull on MeeGo for future N-Series devices. Period.

I don't actually get why people are worried about this announcement concerning N8? Nokia is expecting Symbian to be it's main OS/volume OS in 2011 already(taking S40 place). This is only about the positioning of the two OS's that both support Qt.

Like i already mentioned getting the magic of N series that it had for the first 6 years of Symbian being all new needs MeeGo to take it's place imo.


As far as MeeGo being high end only is nothing new. It was already said many times in 2009. It's just about the N series branding here.
http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb95/tissotti/platform.jpg

[evil_m0nkey]

I would be shocked if Nokia managed to actually deliver on June 30th.

[Bundyo]

You won't see working MeeGo/Harmattan on June 30 - its still in very much alpha stage, only UX preview will be released.

[attila77]

I don't actually get why people are worried about this announcement concerning N8? Nokia is expecting Symbian to be it's main OS/volume OS in 2011 already(taking S40 place). This is only about the positioning of the two OS's that both support Qt.

It superphone tunnel vision. It’s about people who simply are not aware about anything below Nseries (basically your average avid engadget reader), for them it sounds like a whole OS has been discontinued (which is very far from the truth). On the flip side, saying things like here DOES affect the N8 as it reinforces the image of Symbian as an outdated/unwanted OS. That’s why they should have not named it Symbian^* in the first place - devs know what it is no matter how it’s called, users THINK they know what it is, but in reality they don’t.

[jsa]

I would be shocked if Nokia managed to actually deliver on June 30th.

What makes you think it's only Nokia that's working on it? We're talking about MeeGo reference UX from the MeeGo project governed by Linux Foundation, not something Nokia specific. That's outside the scope of this thread though.

[Rauha]

What makes you think it's only Nokia that's working on it? We're talking about MeeGo reference UX from the MeeGo project governed by Linux Foundation, not something Nokia specific. That's outside the scope of this thread though.

It's not unreasonable assumption to assume that at this point the Meego handheld UX is overwhelmingly, if not solely, Nokia project.

[TheBootroo]

MeeGo Handest UX is being heavily developped at the moment and IMO it will be very complete and usable on the N900 in the 30th of June state....

I can't wait !!!!

NeedToGo

[jsa]

It's not unreasonable assumption to assume that at this point the Meego handheld UX is overwhelmingly, if not solely, Nokia project.

A slide (http://carrypad.com/files/2010/04/meegohandheldfeatures.jpg) from Intel Developer Forum says "Core M2 Handset UX, based on Intel UX design(using handheld UI framework)". The framework is Nokia developed, but that line leads me to believe the rest of it is not strictly a Nokia effort. Nokia can, and has in the past kept certain built in applications closed(differentiation). MeeGo reference UX being 100 % open, it's a no go for those and something else is needed there. And the bug reports against the handheld UX also seem to indicate Intel developers working on the applications.

Maybe I'm just reading way too much into everything, but I guess we'll see once the reference and Nokia UX's are out..

[ou_oliver]

I thought nokia was going to make symbian^4 and then symbian^5 or maybe event symbian^6. not going to happen then??

[Blinde]

Thank god.

[jsa]

I thought nokia was going to make symbian^4 and then symbian^5 or maybe event symbian^6. not going to happen then??

It says last Nseries Symbian device, there are also Eseries, Xseries, Cseries and Sseries. Plenty of Symbian to come.

That said, I believe it when I see it.. without exact quotes from the Nokia person I'm taking this with a grain of salt. There's way too much room for misunderstandings. With the new numbering system (N8-00, N8-01, N8-02, ...) it could just mean N8-models will be the only Symbian devices in Nseries.

[M00NB34M]

This is good and bad news :p

Okay, well, Me having owned an N95, N96, N97 and currently an N900 i think i can make a pretty sturdy conclusion.

Basically Symbian 3rd (non touch screen devices) was absolutely amazing! My N95 still sets my benchmark in terms of an amazing phone! N96 was good aswell (hardware was shite though), nevertheless the OS was brilliant!

Symbian 5th (Touchscreen devices) was possibly the worst OS i'v ever used...slow, glitchy and jam packed with bugs...Put it this way, it took Nokia over a year to finally release the 5th/6th update with kinetic scrolling, for those of you who dont know what that is, i suggest googling it...its the most basic concept of touchscreen phones!

Symbian has just never been Touchscreen friendly, it shows with the Sony Ericcson Satio (also lacks kinetic scrolling) aswell as certain Samsumg phones which used the OS aswell. Symbian has just always been made for non touchscreen phones!

Although now that Symbian^3 was released i never got a chance to play with it, but i can guarantee it will have the same problems as Symbian^1 5th as its still on Touchscreen devices.

I think implementing Meego on touchscreen devices will be much better option, seeing Maemo on N900 hasnt failed to impress me, when taken into consideration how new the OS is! And im sure Meego will be even better!

But don't forget that Nokia is NOT the only company to use Symbian, Sony Ericcson have just picked it up and i think samsung still use it (but are slowly moving to their own OS and Android), So i dont think Symbian will die out; but will get a big blow now that Nokia have dropped it!

Meh abit of a mouthful i guess :P But it might settle a few arguments! Feel free to critise :D

[gabby131]

does this mean nokia will no longer make symbian 3 phones with an "Nxxx" name? or maybe their gonna use the X series for symbian3

[tissot]

This is good and bad news :p

Okay, well, Me having owned an N95, N96, N97 and currently an N900 i think i can make a pretty sturdy conclusion.

Basically Symbian 3rd (non touch screen devices) was absolutely amazing! My N95 still sets my benchmark in terms of an amazing phone! N96 was good aswell (hardware was shite though), nevertheless the OS was brilliant!

Symbian 5th (Touchscreen devices) was possibly the worst OS i'v ever used...slow, glitchy and jam packed with bugs...Put it this way, it took Nokia over a year to finally release the 5th/6th update with kinetic scrolling, for those of you who dont know what that is, i suggest googling it...its the most basic concept of touchscreen phones!

Symbian has just never been Touchscreen friendly, it shows with the Sony Ericcson Satio (also lacks kinetic scrolling) aswell as certain Samsumg phones which used the OS aswell. Symbian has just always been made for non touchscreen phones!

Although now that Symbian^3 was released i never got a chance to play with it, but i can guarantee it will have the same problems as Symbian^1 5th as its still on Touchscreen devices.

I think implementing Meego on touchscreen devices will be much better option, seeing Maemo on N900 hasnt failed to impress me, when taken into consideration how new the OS is! And im sure Meego will be even better!

But don't forget that Nokia is NOT the only company to use Symbian, Sony Ericcson have just picked it up and i think samsung still use it (but are slowly moving to their own OS and Android), So i dont think Symbian will die out; but will get a big blow now that Nokia have dropped it!

Meh abit of a mouthful i guess :P But it might settle a few arguments! Feel free to critise :D

Well if Symbian dies it means that Nokia dies in the next 5 years because Symbian is the money maker and volume OS for Nokia in the coming years. Nokia is expecting Symbian to be equal to S40 already in 2012.
Many of the Symbian problems can be traced to AVKON and that will change when we get to S^4.

MeeGo will be niche. A profitable niche like Symbian once was(or so Nokia hopes at least).
So many seem to be getting this news very wrong by some reason.

[jsa]

So many seem to be getting this news very wrong by some reason.

People only read the words "N8 to be last Symbian device", then they tell their friends, and then it's in the blogs and so on. Suddenly it's common knowledge that Nokia is dropping Symbian altogether. Then they introduce a device with it and everyone goes "BAA! Nokia said they're dropping Symbian! What the hell are they doing, make up your minds already lulz! No strategy, no vision, running around like headless chicken!". You know, the normal story. :)

[johnel]

http://mynokiablog.com/2010/05/29/video-meego-qa-with-alberto-torres-nokia-evp-meego-computers-at-openmobile/

AT: I think that the N900- I’m going to have to go after this one – what I really like about the N900 is so many things. I think the multitasking as an element to the UI is very powerful. I think the browsing experience is excellent. I think the speed that it works is very good. I think there are some things I don’t like so much. The resistive screen, the touch side is not as good as it needs to be. Obviously it will be better in MeeGo. The interface is good but you can get lost occasionally on that. And I think again, it was really developed for technology leaders. We are going to make it (MeeGo) just a touch simpler so your average consumer can find it equally compelling. That has to be the key thing. And then the other bit are two things. Make it more stylish and more beautiful.

Personally I'm happy with the touch screen I can use a stylus for more accuracy.

The interface is really easy to use - it doesn't get in the way, I don't understand how he can "get lost" in the UI.

Actually when I think about it those lines are probably corporate bull**** anyway.

[lagonda]

There is no way that Nokia are dropping Symbian they need it for smaller smartphones and devices. They are still heavily involved with Symbian and the development of next version. MeeGo will be used in larger format devices but Symbian will still be the bulk of Nokia's smartphone sales for the foreseeable future.

I'm not sure why people keep slagging off Symbian I've had many over the years and it still is the best non touchscreen OS. Its solid robust and reliable. OK app devlopment was limited on it but it had everything that I needed. In fact their is so much built in functionality that there is not much extra you need to install. The fact that is still the largest selling smartphone OS by quite a large margin suggests that the general public (who often do not even know what OS their phone is running) are quite happy with it.

So yes I'm enjoying my N900 at the moment. My next device will probably be MeeGo but I'm not ruling out Symbian yet.

[PortaDiFerro]

I'm really excited with the news, but not in the same way many seem to be here, predicting that Symbian would die away. I don't see why it should. Nokia still seems to be determined to make the next versions of Symbian a great experience, and I'm hopeful they will.

What I'm excited about is that finally MeeGo will have a whole line of it own, in the past it has seemed that Nokia has kept Maemo as, sort of a marginal niche product, but now they seem to think it's ready to really push it in and I'm hoping there will be models for everybodys liking! With and without keyboard, some with superior camera, or awesome sound quality, bigger tablet one and hopefully the free navigation stuff will be available too when they finally hit the market! Exciting times!

[ajflex]

n9 going to be symbian 3

[nilchak]

I am amazed at how Nokia likes to shoot itself in the foot.
First with N900 with Maemo and now with the N8.

The moment they launch a new product - they go about banding how this is the end of life (not officially those words, but to all practical purposes that what it means) for the said product.

N900 - comes out with Maemo 5 and then Nokia announces Meego.

Now with the not-yet launched N8 with Symbian 3, they say this is the last N series with Symbian - symbian is for low end devices.

Excuse me, so why would I but the N8 if I already know this is the end of life for it.

Are there any market savvy guys in Nokia or not ? People who understand the market dynamicsa and what people interpret when you make this dud statements ?

[wmarone]

Excuse me, so why would I but the N8 if I already know this is the end of life for it.
I don't recall them saying Symbian^3, or the N8, would be unsupported or EOL'd out of the gate. I see them saying "all future N-series devices will be MeeGo."

[JulmaHerra]

N8 is not EOL, nor is Symbian^3. They are just saying that lineup on N-series will move to MeeGo. It leaves buch of other series (E, C and X-series) for Symbian. I have a feeling that E-series will also include a MeeGo-device, however Symbian has very strong support for business applications and it's not likely that all that can be moved to MeeGo in short notice, so it's not likely that Symbian would get ditched in that series.

[nilchak]

I don't recall them saying Symbian^3, or the N8, would be unsupported or EOL'd out of the gate. I see them saying "all future N-series devices will be MeeGo."

Of course they didn't say that... but that doesn't mean the market doesnt interpret that the N8 is born with limited support window.

My point is exactly that - Nokia should understand the implications of statements in the marketplace. Nobody is naieve that they will take a statement at face value and not read its implications in real world life.

Did Nokia ever say that N900 will have limited support when it released N900 with Maemo5 ? But with Maemo reaching end of life you can understand where N900 support will go officially. That does not have to be spelled out.

[maxximuscool]

Nokia official support for N900 is almost nothing at the moment. Every bugs that Nokia think it takes too much work to get it going will be marked as fixed in Harmattan.. I wonder why? May be the issues are fixable but instead of fixing it then everyone will stay with Maemo5 and not buying their next Harmattan device MeeGo, Nokia refused to fix it and force customers to buy the next device if they want something that fixed.

Nokia is quite bad in support generally. I bet N8 will suffer the same fate and so is the N9. This is only just the begining! Just you wait and see :)

[tissot]

Nokia official support for N900 is almost nothing at the moment. Every bugs that Nokia think it takes too much work to get it going will be marked as fixed in Harmattan.. I wonder why? May be the issues are fixable but instead of fixing it then everyone will stay with Maemo5 and not buying their next Harmattan device MeeGo, Nokia refused to fix it and force customers to buy the next device if they want something that fixed.

Nokia is quite bad in support generally. I bet N8 will suffer the same fate and so is the N9. This is only just the begining! Just you wait and see :)
Honestly thought coming from somebody who have owned and owns android devices it's not that bad. People who don't want to hack their phones have been waiting for months for 2.2 to arrive and today it finally arrived to nexus only. Most of the android phones out there are running older than 2.1 and are not getting 2.1, not to even talk about 2.2. It will be seen when my galaxy s gets it.
Omnia hd got absolutely no support after i bought it while N97 update after update adding new browser, kinetic scrolling and so on. Lets not even talk about SE or LG.
HTC is pretty good here, but what i have noticed there seem to be lots of talk from them about early fw releases but in the end getting 4-5 months late. HTC hero for example.

Apple is the number one there, but Nokia easily is one of the best of updating the devices and building services around the device. Nokia can and should do better that i agree.

Only service Samsung provided to my galaxy s is kies and nobody have gotten that work me included.

[blackbox]

I seem to be confused with all the rumors lately surrounding the leaked prototype of the supposed N9 (Meego) device. From what I have seen so far on the prototype, hardware/spec-wise, this device is inferior to the N8. I'm just hoping that this will change once the actual device is released. I love the look of the device but i think they have to (must!) change the internals of the device especially if this is going to be their flagship meego device. I listed below what I think would be the best option for this phone. Let me know what your thoughts are:

1. This device must support 3G penta-band support like the current N8. On the leaked info, currently this device in the US will only work on AT&T's 3G network. They need to support tmobile's frequencies as well.

2. I hope the camera will be a carl zeiss model as this has been the standard for almost all of nokia's high end phones lately.

3. Not sure how much internal storage this device will have, but it should be at least 16-32GB. If they need to save space and sleekness, then I don't mind using a micro sdhc card.

This is all I can think of right now, and if this is truly what is in the works, then I believe Nokia is really going to impress the world with this jewel. In my opinion this device really looks beautiful. I'm so sick of the Iphone/Android craze lately. Nokia phones have always been the highest of quality standards than any other phone manufacturers around. Those other phones don't even come close to the build quality as nokia's devices. They are just too fragile and no matter what marketing garbage they try to sell us, I'm sticking with Nokia.

Cant wait for it's release.:)

For whomever is interested:

http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/01/nokia-n9-n8-01-prototype-sized-up-against-iphone-4-and-evo/

Update: I also forgot to mention that this device should have a higher resolution than 640x360

[leviathan18]

Ok people i dont know where are your reading skills.

What nokia said is the N8 is the last symbian device in the N-series, now all the N-series will be meego.

First the N8 wont lack support the same OS symbian is going to be in the C-series X-series E-series S-series, so you will have the last N-series powered by symbian but not the last phone ever to get symbian.

So all this conclude that symbian is going to be demoted from the TOP OS to MIDDLE OS while the top is gonna be meego.

So if you like symbian3 go and get a N8 and be happy you will have firmware updates for years to come.

[blackbox]

For those who can read, my previous post was not not a look at the OS, but rather a hardware perspective/comparison. Most of us here already know that after the N8, all N-series phones will have Meego as the OS at this point. The title on this topic clearly states the obvious.

Perhaps it should have said "....-N8 to be last symbian device on n-series".

[jsa]

A slide (http://carrypad.com/files/2010/04/meegohandheldfeatures.jpg) from Intel Developer Forum says "Core M2 Handset UX, based on Intel UX design(using handheld UI framework)". The framework is Nokia developed, but that line leads me to believe the rest of it is not strictly a Nokia effort. Nokia can, and has in the past kept certain built in applications closed(differentiation). MeeGo reference UX being 100 % open, it's a no go for those and something else is needed there. And the bug reports against the handheld UX also seem to indicate Intel developers working on the applications.

Maybe I'm just reading way too much into everything, but I guess we'll see once the reference and Nokia UX's are out..

Quoting myself here, indeed all the reference UX applications have Intel's copyright and are made to Intel's designs.

[pillar]

Anssi Vanjoki just put this rumor out of place:

Anssi (http://www.conversations.nokia.com/2010/07/02/the-fightback-starts-now/):
The Nokia N8 will be our only Nseries devices on Symbian^3. Of course, we ‘never comment on future products’, but a Symbian^4 Nseries device is a strong possibility. A very strong possibility ; )

[sevla]

Anssi Vanjoki just put this rumor out of place:

Anssi (http://www.conversations.nokia.com/2010/07/02/the-fightback-starts-now/):
Why would he even mention this? Symbian 4 is like a year away.

Kind of frightens me that Symbian is still there OS of choice. When will Meego get off the back burner, if ever...

[NvyUs]

symbian^4 is not a year away it will be complete before end of 2010 with devices expected in 2011.
there is more to a OS than looking pretty, symbian as a lot going for it, when symbian gets its new touch UI people wont even know its symbian, they are the narrow minded ppl who just repeat what engadget writes

[sevla]

symbian^4 is not a year away it will be complete before end of 2010 with devices expected in 2011.
there is more to a OS than looking pretty, symbian as a lot going for it, when symbian gets its new touch UI people wont even know its symbian, they are the narrow minded ppl who just repeat what engadget writes

I think your kidding yourself if you expect Symbian ^ 4 to be ready before the end of 2010. That would mean that S^3 will of had a shelf life of 6 months. Also, It's a much bigger jump then Symbian ^3, which they had to delay.

Yes Symbian, has a lot going for it. However, there is far greater potential in Meego imo and I believe this is where the focus should be. There isn't a single thing Symbian can do that Meego can't. You could probably argue that Meego does more.

[lagonda]

I think your kidding yourself if you expect Symbian ^ 4 to be ready before the end of 2010. That would mean that S^3 will of had a shelf life of 6 months. Also, It's a much bigger jump then Symbian ^3, which they had to delay.
.

From Symbian roadmap (http://developer.symbian.org/wiki/index.php/Roadmap_for_the_Symbian_Platform) S^4 Complete H2 2010 handsets H1 2011.

[NvyUs]

I think your kidding yourself if you expect Symbian ^ 4 to be ready before the end of 2010. That would mean that S^3 will of had a shelf life of 6 months. Also, It's a much bigger jump then Symbian ^3, which they had to delay.

Yes Symbian, has a lot going for it. However, there is far greater potential in Meego imo and I believe this is where the focus should be. There isn't a single thing Symbian can do that Meego can't. You could probably argue that Meego does more.

your very uneducated on this go read symbian foundation roadmap there will be new symbian release every 6 months same model that MeeGo as adopted,
also as it stands MeeGo can do nothing its not even out your just guessing b/c we have no idea what it can do yet.
i'm not saying MeeGo wont be better all i'm saying out of current handset OS's out it is more complete and capable than any other and when they get the new UI maybe people will start to notice then instead of saying its old and incapable based on how it looks