[Announce] Telescope: Graphical task switcher with thumbnails

[Mitrandir]

Telescope is task switching tool for OS2008

(previous thread) (http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=50689)
(original thread in russian forum n8xx.com) (http://n8xx.com/topic4367-telescope.html)

What is Telescope?
Simply explained: you press the 'home key' (or F5, the upper hard-ware key on the left side of your tablet) — and all applications you are running shows as thumbnails on a screen and you can there easily select what app to jump to.

Even more: thumbnails are live, so you can easily monitor activity in several application at once.

Telescope is designed to be very fast and lightweight: v1.0 deb package is only 35kb!

How-it-works Video: http://www.youtube.com/user/DenielOlivo#p/a/u/2/6FhOf4evqtU (by Kroll (http://maemo.org/profile/view/kroll/))

Acknowledges:
Thanks to Kroll (http://maemo.org/profile/view/kroll/) for original idea, graphics design and his continuous support!
Thanks to silvermountain (maemo.org/profile/view/silvermountain) for hosting previous thread.
Thanks to all testers from N8XX.com (http://n8xx.com) and talk.maemo.org for precious comments and bugreports!

How to get:
1-click Install:
http://skriblovsky.net/maemo/install.png (http://maemo.org/downloads/product/raw/OS2008/telescope/?get_installfile)

Stable versions are is in Extras repository. If you're subscribed to Extras-devel, you will receive more often and somewhat buggy development releases.

Telescope in Maemo Downloads: http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/telescope/
Please post your comments and stars here!

Our Garage page: https://garage.maemo.org/projects/telescope/
Please report your bugs and feature requests here!

[Snoshrk]

In the Diablo5 thread Kroll pointed me to Telescope as the culprit for my mce.ini file changing w/o my input.

I use MCEdit to enable softpoweroff via the power button, and I kept having to re-enable it, seemingly randomly. (hindsight: whenever Telescope updated)

Is there any way to keep my settings in the mce.ini when telescope updates?

Thanks

PS Thank You for your continued efforts improving the N8x0s!:)

[Mitrandir]

When telescope is installing it copies your mce.ini into /etc/mce/mce.ini.telescope.bak and then modifies the mce.ini. When it is uninstalling, it copies backup copy back to /etc/mce/mce.ini.
Updating the packet effectively results in its uninstalling and then installing again and after it all your changes to mce.ini is lost :(

So, you can do one of:

Remove telescope, apply your changes to mce.ini and then install it again. Telescope will use your 'good' mce.ini as backup and so will not destroy your changes after update.[/*]
OR Apply your changes to both mce.ini and /etc/mce/mce.ini.telescope.bak. (or you can even just copy mce.ini to mce.ini.telescope.bak, but in this case builtin maemo's taskswitcher will not be ressurected when you uninstall telescope)[/*]

[buurmas]

Telescope is designed to be very fast and lightweight: v1.0 deb package is only 35kb!
Let me confirm that it is fast! When I heard about it, I didn't install it b/c I just assumed it was slow. But I think it's actually faster than the Nokia task switcher that is much less useful. Mitrandir's explanation is here (http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=671942&postcount=161).

[tso]

heh, the X equivalent of writing assembly.

[Mitrandir]

BTW, i found plain X programming much less lowlevel and more fun then i thought before :)

angun33 even wrote me that he found X programming even easier that Gtk ;)

[tso]

well i stand corrected then. Or maybe its simple while interfacing with xlib, but maintain xlib itself is a pain.

[angun33]

angun33 even wrote me that he found X programming even easier that Gtk ;)

Hahaha, not sure about that. I think I said I don't have any experience at all on programming using gtk. But after looking your code, I don't find X programming is as scary as I thought. In fact I quite enjoyed them, as it gives you freedom on how you draw things compared to gtk/qt (I know they can do low level drawing, but you have to jump through hoops to get it)

For a normal application though, I do prefer Qt than gtk/X programming :p

[Mitrandir]

Ok, sorry if i have distorted your words :(

[jwernerny]

It's a great little app. I really like it.

I have sen one thing that may be an issue. If I am watching a video through "Media Player," the video window is now in front of everything, even if a pop-up opens or I bring up another window. By "video window," I mean the actual video itself, the the containing window that includes the control buttons.

I first noticed this issue after installing Telescope, but I haven't uninstalled Telescope to see if it goes away. (I like the app enough I am willing to live with the problem.)

- John

[Mitrandir]

Telescope 1.0.2 (extras-devel)

In rare cases when Telescope is unable to grab window screenshot it will draw gray checkers instead of one. It could happen if you still use useless “Minimize” window button.
Telescope will not appear when no windows are running. If you close last window inside Telescope using “X” button, Telescope will hide.


jwernerny
Unfortunately, this issue can't be easily resolved. This is side effect of enabling Composite X11 extension that Telescope uses. (This extension allows to monitor window contents event if window is not visible and it is used by all modern linux desktops.) Due to some bug in whether Composite extension or in XVideo extension in Maemo's X server, video overlay is always drawn on the top of all windows when composition is enabled.
On Diablo Composite is disabled by default and it seems that Nokia didn't event tested it with video.
Telescope includes stupid workaround for this case: when you call Telescope from MediaPlayer in order to switch to another app, Telescope will minimize MediaPlayer and video will be hidden (and paused). The same workaround is for liqbase which uses XVideo too.
But yes, this is not the solution for popups.

[Addison]

Thanks! :D

[Mitrandir]

Telescope 1.0.3 (extras-devel)

Fixed bug with screen rotation while Telescope is active.

[cstryon]

Works very well. Though, you should not open telescope when playing DrNokSnes. To be honest it was an accident, but I couldn't get resolution correct and had to reboot. :p

[Mitrandir]

Yes, you're right :( Telescope works ok with SDL apps, but not with ones which change screen resolution. I will try to find some workaround

[Mitrandir]

Telescope 1.0.3 has been moved to Extras

[Mgamerz]

yep, right after i installed .02 it said update.

[cstryon]

Mitrandir. How difficult would it be to put a rotate hotkey/button when you open telescope? Say maybe a rotate left button in the lower right when telescope is launched?

[Mgamerz]

If you use advanced-backlight (and volume) with the Community SSU it has rotation on it.

[giladmttw]

Mitrandir. How difficult would it be to put a rotate hotkey/button when you open telescope? Say maybe a rotate left button in the lower right when telescope is launched?

Telescope support user defined hardware keys. You can define one of the keys, e.g. FS, to invoke rotation.

edit:
Well there is no rotate command. The best way to do this is to install Knots2 which contains one, then add these line to /etc/telescope.keys as root:

press(F7): shell(/usr/share/knots/rotate 3)
press(F6): shell(/usr/share/knots/rotate 0)


Now killall telescope to make your changes effective
+ rotates clockwise
FS rotates to normal landscape

[Mgamerz]

You could install it, try to copy those out, then uninstall it and see if you could configure it to use that without having knots installed. Perhaps even package it as a new app...? (but you might need to give credit?)

[cstryon]

Would putting those commands cause knots to open everytime I try to rotate?

Now since advanced-backlight has the buttons for rotate, perhaps would it be possible to apply the same command, only swap knots 2 with advanced-backlight? Also, could I do the same commands with opera since it has the rotate options? That way I don't have to install a program that I won't use.

[Mgamerz]

You could try to transplant the commands it uses and see if you can learn some key bindings. I don't think it would be too difficult.

[Mitrandir]

Nice idea. I will keep in mind suggestion about rotate button.

Now you can rotate easier without knots2 with this xrandr:
http://skriblovsky.net/maemo/xrandr

xrandr -o left
xrandr -o right
xrandr -o inverted
xrandr -o normal

Don't forget to do chmod +x on it

[pycage]

Wow, telescope is amazing! My N810 is really happy to run it now. :D
Keep up the outstanding great work!

[Mitrandir]

pycage, Thanks!

[giladmttw]

Nice idea. I will keep in mind suggestion about rotate button.

Now you can rotate easier without knots2 with this xrandr:
http://skriblovsky.net/maemo/xrandr

xrandr -o left
xrandr -o right
xrandr -o inverted
xrandr -o normal

Don't forget to do chmod +x on it

Does xrandr change the orientation of the dpad too or just the screen ?

[Mitrandir]

Yes, you are right, it only rotates the screen.

Use this: http://skriblovsky.net/maemo/rotate.tar.gz
This archive contains xrandr, xmodmap and shellscript which can rotate both screen and dpad.
This script is written by user svs57 of n8xx.com forum, thanks to him.

rotate.sh script expects xmodmap and xrandr to be in path

[Mgamerz]

It might just be because I have a few devels programs installed (from devels I mean) but when I press the home key it flashes through the programs very fast (like it is redrawing) before I get to Telescope.

[tuliobaars]

Ohhh, for me the Xrandr doesn't works... none of the rotation procedures had worked...Even after a Reflash, reboot

[Mgamerz]

Did you install the SSU?

[tuliobaars]

So, how i install SSU? I don't know what really is this, sorry!

[Mgamerz]

http://wiki.maemo.org/Diablo_Community_Project
Without the SSU or a patched kernel you won't be able to rotate.

[tuliobaars]

Yeah, installed! What now?

[tuliobaars]

The n810-rotate-plugin conflict with osso-Feature Upgrade!

[cstryon]

If you have advanced-backlight installed, you will now have rotate options in there. AlsoYou will be able to rotate with opera.

[tuliobaars]

No, it doesn't work man!

[tuliobaars]

Nothing that I try make this Fu***** screen rotate!

[Mitrandir]

In order to make rotata the screen you need to:
1. Install Community SSU
2. Install Advanced Backlight

And if you have installed these both without errors, it will work.
Check that you have installed SSU without problems. Remove n810-rotate-plugin if it conflicts with SSU.

[tuliobaars]

I never instaled SSU, it comes by default in Diablo,, correct?

I already have adv backlight,

[Mitrandir]

Man, have you even read wiki page Mgamerz posted to you?

Community SSU is community-driven OS update which has been developed by talk.maemo.org members in this thread: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=30648

It is not comes by default in Diablo and is not developed by Nokia.

You can install Community SSU with this checklist:
1. make sure that you have not removed osso-software-version-rxNN package
2. use this link to add Community SSU repository: http://repository.maemo.org/community-testing/community-testing.install
It will also install Enabler which adds digital keys for repository.
3. Run Enabler
4. Open Application Manager and refresh package list
5. Install update

[tuliobaars]

Yeah, I've read and added the repos to source.list, BUT nothing differenet! Thats what i was talking about!

I really thanks your interess in help me!

[Mitrandir]

Ok, please open Control Panel → About product... (or somehow) and if you have 5.2010.16-1 SW version there, you have Community SSU installed. If there is 5.2008.43 there — you have not one.

[Mgamerz]

Also learn to use the edit button.

[tuliobaars]

Sure, I have the 2008 version and would like to know how to update to 2010. And I KNOW how to use 'edit' button, i just don't like to use it xD

[Mitrandir]

please post here dumps of following commands:

1. cat /etc/apt/sources.list
2. cat /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list
3. apt-get update
4. apt-cache policy osso-software-version-rx44
5. apt-get upgrade

[tuliobaars]

deb http://repository.maemo.org/community/ diablo free non-free
deb http://repository.maemo.org/community-testing/diablo free non-free
deb http://repository.maemo.org/extras diablo free non-free

Hildon app manager.list:
deb catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com/certified/ diablo user
deb " /non-certified/ diablo user
deb " /updates/diablo-2/ ./
deb repo.maemo.org/extras diablo free non-free
deb reg.fring.com/repo chinook release
deb repo.maemo.org/extras-devel/ diablo free non-free
deb mikie.dy.fi/maemo diablo user
deb skriblosky.net/maemo diablo free
deb repo.maemo.org/extras diablo free

apt-cache policy blabla displays: candidate same as installed (2008)
5.2008.43-7

Now, upgrading....

OBS: Where it is typed "repo" its the repository word!

Sorry for the delay

[Mitrandir]

Right Community SSU source line should be as follows:
deb http://repository.maemo.org/community-testing/ diablo free non-free

[tso]

i'm surprised that the community ssu release have yet to be declared stable.

[Mgamerz]

The wiki article has the .install line. It does everything for you.

[tuliobaars]

Right Community SSU source line should be as follows:
deb http://repository.maemo.org/community-testing/ diablo free non-free

Yeah yeah, my mistake!

Was like you said, That was me that not typed correctly!

Sorry

[tuliobaars]

OK, the upgrade process had finished. And now, what I suppose to do?

[Mitrandir]

Yep, this SSU is quite stable and i'm wonder why it isn't in http://repository.maemo.org/community/ repository yet

[Mitrandir]

Now check if advanced backlight will rotate your screen.

[tuliobaars]

OK,I've rebooted but nothing different. BTW, the sys info still is 5.2008.43-7

[Mgamerz]

You have to check for updates and install the System Update. You can't just install the 'SSU enabler'.
It will be fairly obvious when you are installing it as there will be extra prompts and a forced reboot.

[tuliobaars]

No updates, that's strange!

[Mgamerz]

go to microb on the tablet and click this link
http://repository.maemo.org/community-testing/community-testing.install
let it install the program, then go to check for updates and try to install whats there.
Other than that I don't know what to tell you.

[tuliobaars]

Thanks, very good! My N810 now is Updated! Thanks again!

[Den in USA]

How do I active,run or enable telescope after installing?

[Kroll]

How do I active,run or enable telescope after installing?
Press "home" button on your device.

[Mitrandir]

It might just be because I have a few devels programs installed (from devels I mean) but when I press the home key it flashes through the programs very fast (like it is redrawing) before I get to Telescope.
Sorry, i was missed your post.
Does problem appears after reboot?

[Mgamerz]

It's gone it appears. I need to change my wallpaper from Nokia Default methinks :P
(aka its back to normal, telescope)

[Mitrandir]

Hmm... So, is the issue solved?

[Mgamerz]

yep . adding-text-to-meet-the-ten-character-limit

[sondjata]

just want to restate my appreciation of this app.

[Mgamerz]

It's come along very well =)

[lma]

Yep, this SSU is quite stable and i'm wonder why it isn't in http://repository.maemo.org/community/ repository yet

There are a couple of problems with it: busybox ps argument handling (https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10571) (trivial) and telepathy-gabble deadlooping (https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3455) isn't completely fixed (more complex), so I don't quite consider it ready to be called "stable" yet. There were also a couple of reports of reduced battery life, but I couldn't reproduce this.

[Jaco2k]

cannot find it in the catalogues. I have all the possible repos installed and configured

[Mitrandir]

lma, may be i just havn't seen any of this issues :) (except ps, of course, but this bug doesn't bother me at all)

Jaco2k
You mean Telescope? It certainly is in Extras catalogue. Try run
apt-cache policy telescope
and post output here

[Jaco2k]

lma, may be i just havn't seen any of this issues :) (except ps, of course, but this bug doesn't bother me at all)

Jaco2k
You mean Telescope? It certainly is in Extras catalogue. Try run
apt-cache policy telescope
and post output here

I still can't see it... refreshed... not with apt-get in terminal neither with app manager. this is the output from your request:

W: Unable to locate package telescope

[Mitrandir]

Hmm... It seems like you don't have Extras enabled.

Please post also output of these commands:
1. cat /etc/apt/sources.list
2. cat /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list
3. apt-get update

Last one should be called under root

[Mitrandir]

Guys, please vote in this poll:
How would you like to run Telescope and App Launcher (http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=59671)

[Mitrandir]

Hi, all,

Will you install a my patched build of libhildondesktop0 package if it will be the only way for Telescope to manage notifications? Or it will be too bad way?

[giladmttw]

I would install anything but you need to tell us what are the consequences of doing so. What to be gained and what to be lost.

[Mitrandir]

I will explain.
If you don't know anything about D-Bus, imagine it as communication channel using which one applications can provide named services and respond to requests from other applications.
Hildon-desktop provides D-Bus service named ‘org.freedesktop.Notifications’. This service provides several methods for manupulating notifications.

In theory, D-Bus has ‘eavesdrop’ mode, using which i'm able to monitor activity on bus named ‘org.freedesktop.Notifications’ and resemble notifications behavior. But in practice, Diablo's old version of D-Bus contains proven bug that makes me unable to monitor all the activity (specifically, hildon-desktop's answers). So, i don't think that i can do something working with this way :(

Another way seems to me more promising. Actually, D-Bus already has the solution for our problem: when service application acquires bus name (e.g. ‘org.freedesktop.Notifications’), it could specify the flag named DBUS_NAME_FLAG_ALLOW_REPLACEMENT. This flag tells D-Bus that this service is allowed to be overriden by other application, if needed. But for some reason (i'm personally think that with no reason) hildon developers did not specified this flag.
I have patched libhildondesktop0 with changing of only single source line: added DBUS_NAME_FLAG_ALLOW_REPLACEMENT. With this flag, Telescope can override hildon-desktop's notifications service and provide the own one. This doesn't have any side effects: if you don't run Telescope, service will be owned by hildon-desktop and notifications will work as before. If Telescope will fail for some reason, service will be given back to hildon-desktop and notifications will continue to work as well.
So, this patch has no negative effects, but will allow us to extend hildon-desktop's functionality.

By the way, we can include in patched hildon-desktop other useful things such as patch for locking home applets (http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=274808&postcount=11) and patch for making size of statusbar configurable (http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=776263&postcount=247).

[tso]

i suspect that no one at nokia expected (or perhaps wanted, from a liability/warranty standpoint) their users to be mucking about so deep within maemo. End result is a whole host of hardcoded or disabled features, from waht one would expect given the basis its built on.

basically, nokia have been walking the line between full open source, where anyone can play around with (and potentially break) anything, and the traditional canned experience of its previous products. As long as the product have a nokia logo on it, they will want to minimize the areas where people come to them when they have tried something third party and it broke the device.

sadly, nokia never EOL their products, so there is no way to claim that they have dropped all support for something and so should be legally free to allow us access. This on top of their closed sourced elements thats vital to the continued functioning of the device (like MCE that apparently handles all things power, and could potentially allow a battery to overcharge and "blow up").

[giladmttw]

You are being to hard on the espoo butchers. They just didn't expect anyone wanting to change that. The less features you enable, the less bugs you will encounter.

[tso]

Hehe, indeed. I should try to adhere more to "do not proscribe to malice what can be proscribed to ignorance".

[Mitrandir]

Okay, okay, i didn't want to say they intentionally made our lives harder.
But my own habit is to write code as liberally as it possible and if i see in API some flag named ALLOW_SOMEBODY_ELSE_TO_DO_SOMETHING i'll certainly will use it.
I know, commercial development is all about another habits :(

[maacruz]

Hi, all,

Will you install a my patched build of libhildondesktop0 package if it will be the only way for Telescope to manage notifications? Or it will be too bad way?
I'll be glad to install libhildon with all patches. Indeed, the right place to land all those patches is the community SSU, so we should lobby for that.
By the way, could you post your patch? I've already downloaded the other patches and want to rebuild a fully patched libhildon asap :)

[Mitrandir]

maacruz
In libhildondesktop/hildon-desktop-notification-manager.c search for DBUS_NAME_FLAG_DO_NOT_QUEUE and replace it with DBUS_NAME_FLAG_ALLOW_REPLACEMENT.

[maacruz]

What about the 7 applets limit?

[Mitrandir]

It is in libhildondesktop/hildon-desktop-panel-window-dialog.c:234

[giladmttw]

So I was searching the app manger for a new sb plugin I hadn't tried when I found the yet to be announced telescope launcher. Made a few changes to theme. Works great ! very snappy.

http://img840.imageshack.us/img840/2906/screenshotl.png

edit: omg look at the time ! ever since I removed the sb clock I am not getting any sleep, keep losing track of time :)

[Kroll]

yep, hacked hildon gives us so many oportunites to create UI improvements... mmm...

[cstryon]

Can we hack hildon yo make bigger aarea for each icon, so it can be finger friendly? Oalso can we expand the status bar down instead longer? make a 2 by 7 box? Sorry to steer of topic...

[Mitrandir]

I think all is possible after some amount of work on investigating hildon-desktop sources.

It seems that new thread should be created for this stuff ;)

[Kroll]

Can we hack hildon yo make bigger aarea for each icon, so it can be finger friendly? Oalso can we expand the status bar down instead longer? make a 2 by 7 box? Sorry to steer of topic...

We can do it without any hacking. I did it one time, but it looks ugly because it requares a custom backgrounds, etc

[Mitrandir]

Kroll
Which hack do you mean, bigger icons or 2×7 grid?
As i remember from hildon sources, statusbar applets have hardcoded size of 40×50px.

[Kroll]

uups, I misunderstood him. Sorry, I cant't do it indeed :)

[Mitrandir]

Telescope 2.0~rc1 (extras-devel)
angun33 did the great job creating the Android-style Application Launcher (http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=58656) on the base of Telescope.

Now we are proud to release first release candidate of Telescope 2.0 which now not only can switch running applications, but also to start apps using sleek fullscreen menu with app icons!

In the current version application launcher can be called by pressing F5 (Home key) twice. Additional package with statusbar & navigator applets will be released soon.

Looking forward for you bugreports, comments and suggestions for improvement!

[cstryon]

Sorry. Me = N00b. But, how do I install the new release candidate? I'm fairly sure I have extras Devel enabled. But I can only the old one.

[Mitrandir]

I don't know why, but new release was not uploaded into extras-devel, although it was successfully built by autobuilder several hours ago :(

I will try to resolve the issue and will make you know when release become available

[Mitrandir]

It seems that there is some technical issue with autobuilder and extras devel: no package, sent to autobuilder yesterday and today had reached extras-devel. I sent request to garage support, but today is sunday, so i don't think it will be resolved today.

So, i built the release manually and uploaded to our garage page (https://garage.maemo.org/projects/telescope/). You can install it from there.

[elliott]

The new version works great, upgrade went smoothly, though I did remove Telescope and Launcher manually to be safe before installing the new one.

I do miss the statusbar icon for the launcher, will it be added back into a later release?

[Mitrandir]

Thanks!

Sure, statusbar and navigator icons will be released in standalone package named telescope-applet

[scg]

works very nice here as well, thanks.

could it be that the autobuild system is not happy with the ~ in the filename?

[Mitrandir]

I don't think so, because there are already packages in extras with tilde, for example, browser-switchboard, mnemosyne and others.
As i know, ~ is only way to make version numbers for release condidates (in order to '2.0' version to be greater than '2.0~rc1')

[giladmttw]

Updated to 2.0rc1
I didn't uninstall anything before. All works well and snappy. Already had the telescope applet and the update did not remove the launcher-launcher from the sb. Love it this way !

[Mitrandir]

I think launcher statusbar applet calls old version of launcher, which is not built into telescope

[giladmttw]

I think launcher statusbar applet calls old version of launcher, which is not built into telescope

I uninstalled the old Launcher and the launcher applet is gone. X server is nicer on the ram too now.

[cstryon]

This is great, no problems installing. One step closer to a completely finger friendly device

[Mitrandir]

Thanks

2.0~rc1 appeared in extras-devel.

First bug: it seems that telescope stops with segfault when user moves application icon from one category to another.

[Mitrandir]

Telescope 2.0~rc2 (extras-devel)
This bug seems to be fixed:
First bug: it seems that telescope stops with segfault when user moves application icon from one category to another.

[silvermountain]

Just installed the latest release.
I already had both Telescope and Launcher installed and all seems to continue to work great. Actually I don't notice any difference but since I like the way it works I'm not complaining :)

The only bug I continue to have is that no icons show for the two apps for webhttrack in Launcher so I can't launch it anymore from there. They show fine when using just the Diablo5 theme.

[silvermountain]

Mitrandir, how about adding pull down menus like the ones shown here when in Telescope/Launcher?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFz4rEHlHoo&feature=player_embedded

:-)

[Mitrandir]

silvermountain
From where i can install webhttrack to test with it?

Mitrandir, how about adding pull down menus like the ones shown here when in Telescope/Launcher?
Heh, Kroll had been asking for such pull down menus long ago :)
I like them too, but adding animations isn't the priority for now :-)

[giladmttw]

Just installed the latest release.
I already had both Telescope and Launcher installed

You should uninstall launcher, telescope 2 has it already.

[silvermountain]

silvermountain
From where i can install webhttrack to test with it?



Right here: http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/webhttrack/

[Mgamerz]

EAGERLY AWAITING RELEASE.
Mgamerz wants.

[HowHH]

Hey, when did this get Launcher? Has it been there and I just didn't notice? I inadvertently double clicked the menu button and there it was! It's very cool. This app makes the N800 seem like a new device.

[angun33]

Right here: http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/webhttrack/

Hi silvermountain, I've tried to install them last time you reported the bug. But it says cannot find package. Looks like the package is now missing. Do you still have the deb files? Or at least gave us the desktop files. You could find the files under /usr/share/applications/hildon

[jwernerny]

Now we are proud to release first release candidate of Telescope 2.0 which now not only can switch running applications, but also to start apps using sleek fullscreen menu with app icons!

In the current version application launcher can be called by pressing F5 (Home key) twice. Additional package with statusbar & navigator applets will be released soon.

Very cool. Good job.
- John

[fpp]

Really nice ! My N810 is now better than my N900 :-)

[gazza_d]

Finally got around to installing RC2 - Ooohhhh, that's nice.

Thanks Guys.

[silvermountain]

Hi silvermountain, I've tried to install them last time you reported the bug. But it says cannot find package. Looks like the package is now missing. Do you still have the deb files? Or at least gave us the desktop files. You could find the files under /usr/share/applications/hildon

Seems like some people have trouble installing this app (see: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=52211 ). I remember doing the following: saving the 'ini' or whatever the small installation file is called and then updating the extras repo to have "Chinook" in it and then it worked. I might even have had to delete and put Extras back.
Odd. Yes...but it is such a valuable application for me.

Couldn't find anything webhttrack sounding in the hildon folder.

[giladmttw]

Whatever webhttrack does you can do with wget:

Recursive download:
-r, --recursive specify recursive download.
-l, --level=NUMBER maximum recursion depth (inf or 0 for infinite).

[silvermountain]

Whatever webhttrack does you can do with wget:

I don't think wget supports the same GUI that webhttrack does. I got about 13-15 offline sites that I refer to on a regular basis.

[silvermountain]

You should uninstall launcher, telescope 2 has it already.

Not the best advice.

I uninstalled Launcher and the Application launching icon disappeared from the status bar. Luckily I had xterm in personal launcher otherwise I'm not sure what I would had done.

But - there was no longer an option in control panel to select the Launcher to the status bar.

(The icon with the many small blue squares is in the Control Panel but the box to select it is greyed out and can't be selected. Gddamn).

I then un-installed Telescope as well and re-installed it.
Still - no way to put the icon (multiple blue boxes) back in the status-bar.

I install the 9k telescope status-bar applet.
Still no way to put the icon back in the status bar (and this applet seems to just be an alternative way to launch Telescope).

I'm so pissed. I had it exactly the way I wanted and now it's an utter mess and I can't even get to my list of applications.

Is there a way to download the version of Telescope prior to this 'merger' with Launcher and I'll install that and then Launcher separately and, if nothing changes, stay away from future versions of Telescope?

I love Telescope and Launcher - but this merger of the two really messed it up for me.

Request: Can you make a "Launcher Status-bar Applet" that a) places the icon back in the status bar and b) disables that double-click-to-get-to-Launcher?

[Frank Banul]

Press the home button twice?

Frank

[silvermountain]

Press the home button twice?

Frank

Thanks but that's not how I want to get to my Launcher and it goes against what I would consider efficient use - having to go through one feature to get to another. I've tried it a bit now and really dislike that approach.

Thanks for that though - at least I can get to my apps now.
Is there any way to get the soft-icon back in the status bar to launch Launcher from that?

[giladmttw]

I don't think wget supports the same GUI that webhttrack does. I got about 13-15 offline sites that I refer to on a regular basis.

There is no gui just:

wget -r -l 1 website1 website2 website3


wget has many options, you can pause, resume, update. It's not a gui application but would be worth the little effort to learn how to use it.
Anyway you can use personal-launcher on the home screen for webhttrack until this is solved.

[silvermountain]

There is no gui just:

wget -r -l 1 website1 website2 website3


wget has many options, you can pause, resume, update. It's not a gui application but would be worth the little effort to learn how to use it.
Anyway you can use personal-launcher on the home screen for webhttrack until this is solved.

Thanks for the option but I'd much rather prefer to use webhttrack as it's all setup now and is working well.
I'm using personal launcher for the display of the off-line sites I have but I have so far been unable to find a way to, from personal launcher, launch the part of webhttrack that gathers/updates the homepages so I'm a little bit dead in the water there until this bug is fixed.

[giladmttw]

Mitrandir said there will be a seperate launcher status bar applet you can install. You can add commands to personal-launcher. Try in xterm to write webhttrack and then hit TAB twice to see what options it gives you.

[silvermountain]

Mitrandir said there will be a seperate launcher status bar applet you can install.

That...would make at least me very, very happy - if that applet also disabled the stupid double-click to get to Launcher :)


You can add commands to personal-launcher. Try in xterm to write webhttrack and then hit TAB twice to see what options it gives you.

Ok, will try that in the morning. Thanks!

[Mitrandir]

silvermountain
I'm very sorry about your troubles...
The package with two statusbar applets for telescope and for launcher is almost ready, but it needs a bit of work for debianization and packaging.

But i'm sick now (seems like a flu) and feeling myself so bad. But i will try to get this package done today or tomorrow if i will get somehow better.
Sorry :(

[silvermountain]

silvermountain
I'm very sorry about your troubles...
The package with two statusbar applets for telescope and for launcher is almost ready, but it needs a bit of work for debianization and packaging.

But i'm sick now (seems like a flu) and feeling myself so bad. But i will try to get this package done today or tomorrow if i will get somehow better.
Sorry :(

Don't do ANY work if you're sick man. It's a tablet - not anything to kill yourself over.

[giladmttw]

silvermountain
I'm very sorry about your troubles...
The package with two statusbar applets for telescope and for launcher is almost ready, but it needs a bit of work for debianization and packaging.

But i'm sick now (seems like a flu) and feeling myself so bad. But i will try to get this package done today or tomorrow if i will get somehow better.
Sorry :(

Take Zinc. One Tablet :)

[tso]

Not the best advice.

I uninstalled Launcher and the Application launching icon disappeared from the status bar. Luckily I had xterm in personal launcher otherwise I'm not sure what I would had done.

But - there was no longer an option in control panel to select the Launcher to the status bar.

(The icon with the many small blue squares is in the Control Panel but the box to select it is greyed out and can't be selected. Gddamn).

I then un-installed Telescope as well and re-installed it.
Still - no way to put the icon (multiple blue boxes) back in the status-bar.

I install the 9k telescope status-bar applet.
Still no way to put the icon back in the status bar (and this applet seems to just be an alternative way to launch Telescope).

I'm so pissed. I had it exactly the way I wanted and now it's an utter mess and I can't even get to my list of applications.

Is there a way to download the version of Telescope prior to this 'merger' with Launcher and I'll install that and then Launcher separately and, if nothing changes, stay away from future versions of Telescope?

I love Telescope and Launcher - but this merger of the two really messed it up for me.

Request: Can you make a "Launcher Status-bar Applet" that a) places the icon back in the status bar and b) disables that double-click-to-get-to-Launcher?
to fix, open control panel > panels and select 3 entries. Then use leafpad or some other editor to open /home/user/.osso/hildon-desktop/tasknavigator.conf, there change the applications-menu.desktop entry to true, and one of the others that read true, to false (so that there are only 3 options selected). then go back to the panels settings to arrange the icons are wanted.

the basic problem is that nokia hardcoded the tasknavigator panel to load applications-menu.desktop (understandable, as loosing it means loosing all ability to launch a program under the default install), so anything that wanted to replace it needs to pretend to be it.

[Mgamerz]

Perhaps after getting T2 out, you could make T2.1 that has options (say in gconf... which i cant find the .install for (a working one)) that lets you pick which way of opening you have. It'd be a bit of work but it'd keep everyone happy. Except super lazy people.
Can't wait! ALthough i don't like the 2 panels thing. I'm always on the arrow and I hate the arrow... Wish Diablo5 expanded the hildon bar.

[giladmttw]

... i don't like the 2 panels thing. I'm always on the arrow and I hate the arrow... Wish Diablo5 expanded the hildon bar.
Mitrandir has already done that and it works fine. 12 icons in the status bar. The test build was posted on the Diablo5 thread I think, but if you are not experienced with editing the theme.xml file then I suggest you wait for the stable release. Go have a look, I posted some screenshots, took me forever to find 12 plugins for the shot :)

[Mgamerz]

*awaiting release canidates*

[Mitrandir]

telescope-applet 0.2 (extras-devel)
This is promised before package with three applets:
* statusbar applet for launcher
* statusbar applet for telescope
* navigator applet for launcher

[Mgamerz]

Mitrandir has already done that and it works fine. 12 icons in the status bar. The test build was posted on the Diablo5 thread I think, but if you are not experienced with editing the theme.xml file then I suggest you wait for the stable release. Go have a look, I posted some screenshots, took me forever to find 12 plugins for the shot :)

Looked in that thread, all I saw was you saying you had a a hacked hildon file (im still a linux noob) that expanded it, didn't see your xml post.

[Mitrandir]

There is step by step instruction in that thread thread, explaining how to tweak the existing theme.xml file of Echo theme. But following it you will run a risk of destroying your system ;)

[Mgamerz]

:/ I wanted diablo 5 them :/
anyways, installing rc2 refreshed my hildon interface, locking my second row of icons open forcing a complete reboot as I could not access anything, Then, upon reboot, removing my switcher menu so I can install your package of 3, hildon crashed and I had to reboot.
Update: Okay, your package only puts 1 icon in the status bar, however, it matches exactly what diablo5 put so now I have two, may want to update package to fix that automagically.
The new menu is... well it's nice, but make the side arrows bigger. I can't tap them easily.
Also, on telescope itself, the background when in portrait mode does not... tile? the background. Like it used to, I think.
It's a bit laggy for a menu but it's better than the original. However, if you could have tabs for each category say at the top, that'd be great. I have to tap 3 times to get an app in extras and 4 for utilities.

[Kroll]

You can delet unused applet /usr/share/applications/ and go to statusbar dir.

By the way, a small demo of telescope launcher bar which makes reaching any tab easier. There will be no tab's name in the top and < > buttons on the sides of the screen anymore because of the bar (I forgot to remove it from demo, sorry).http://skriblovsky.net/maemo/Tele-demo.gif

[Mgamerz]

That demo shows exactly what I had in mind. My right side of my touch screen (on screen finger keyboard, arouhd O) is almost dead. Might have to resend back for a new one from my 3 year warranty.

[cstryon]

I like it and must have it!. =). will the buttons at the bottom be big enough to be finger friendly? Also, is it possible to but some kind of task manager, kind of like load applet in the new launcher, or in the telescope function,?

[Mgamerz]

Was using the Telescope Tools (launcher) and then pressed home (I didn't use the home button to get to it). It took me to Telescope itself, but I could not press anything, and the entire device locked up. Even turning it off into charge mode would not fix it.
Update: Noticing now that I cannot start the web application. I press Home, and Launcher pops up (assuming because Telescope is made that way, and since no apps were open it wouldn't open). I have browser switchboard installed for Opera as main. Clicking Web does nothing. I have to go the extras tab and select opera, which is annoying... You need to add tabs to click. And I'm not sure why Web won't load up Opera.

[silvermountain]

telescope-applet 0.2 (extras-devel)
This is promised before package with three applets:
* statusbar applet for launcher
* statusbar applet for telescope
* navigator applet for launcher

Oh wow, I updated my 'statusbar for launcher' and I am thrilled to have the status-bar option back to launch 'Launcher'.

All is working great and I am one happy TeleLaunch user :)

Btw, what does the "Navigator applet for Launcher" do?

Maybe put a sentence or two next to each of the three bullet points above to help people (like me) :)

[Mgamerz]

Wish it had a mail notifier. The stock one w/ workaround is so ugly...

[silvermountain]

Wish it had a mail notifier. The stock one w/ workaround is so ugly...

I hope it never will.
I'm not a big fan of trying to make one application doing 15 different things and things that are not core to it's basic features.

So far Mitrandir has done an excellent job keeping the app on track and focusing on simplicity so I hope he continues to do so :)

Or do you mean the Notifications that the Diablo5 theme dropped - i.e. not Telescope?

[Mitrandir]

Navigator applet for Launcher is a optional button in left panel (like PersonalMenu) that calls Launcher. I don't think ‘Navigator’ is good name, but Nokia traditionally calls left panel TaskNavigator. If you use Diablo5, you have no one :)

Notifications are planned, but i didn't started to work on them yet...

[taril]

Is this already full-animated or still looks flat like on youtube video?

[Mitrandir]

It is flat and with no animations for now

[taril]

1234
So? :o)

[Mitrandir]

sorry, what?

[cstryon]

I don't think there should be to much animation if at all.

But what I would like is rotation support for Launcher =)

[Mgamerz]

I hope it never will.
I'm not a big fan of trying to make one application doing 15 different things and things that are not core to it's basic features.

So far Mitrandir has done an excellent job keeping the app on track and focusing on simplicity so I hope he continues to do so :)

Or do you mean the Notifications that the Diablo5 theme dropped - i.e. not Telescope?

But since telescope is replacing the task switcher, and task switcher handled the mail notifications... isn't that a 'basic feature' of what is should be replacing?
Errr I mean Diablo5 dropped, but I guess Telescope will hvae to pick up (since it replaces what got dropped)

[Mitrandir]

Unfortunately, implementing notifications is not as easy, as replacing F5 action :)

[giladmttw]

I don't think there should be to much animation if at all.

But what I would like is rotation support for Launcher =)

Since you can have custom commands assigned to hardware keys in telescope, you can use your keys for rotation. Install Knots2 and add this to /etc/telescope.keys :

press(F7): shell(/usr/share/knots/rotate 3)
press(F6): shell(/usr/share/knots/rotate 0)



Now when you press the home and see telescope, press (+) to portraite and FS to landscape. Knots2 contains a small program that handles the rotation and switches the orientation of the dpad.

[giladmttw]

Moving the Home menu from the left panel to the status bar, works fine for notification. The ugly icon can be replaced with a nice icon with flowers and hearts and rainbows and butterflies and then all be well with the world.

[Mgamerz]

Moving the Home menu from the left panel to the status bar, works fine for notification. The ugly icon can be replaced with a nice icon with flowers and hearts and rainbows and butterflies and then all be well with the world.
Thta works, but a couple of things:
I don't want another icon...
But I think I'll need one anyways, I don't want an ugly one (which can be fixed)
But it also is so wide that it gets cut off almost 80% of the time depending on where the icon is. Most times, the second row.
Which, randomly locks open the second row which never closes and makes you reboot the device.
Many reasons I do not want the default one :/

[giladmttw]

Thta works, but a couple of things:
I don't want another icon...
But I think I'll need one anyways, I don't want an ugly one (which can be fixed)
But it also is so wide that it gets cut off almost 80% of the time depending on where the icon is. Most times, the second row.
Which, randomly locks open the second row which never closes and makes you reboot the device.
Many reasons I do not want the default one :/

I've been using Mitrandir's new build of the status bar so I forget about that limitation. Once this is made public you wouldn't care about an extra icon.

[Mgamerz]

I tried to make it have that many icons :P All I did though was ruin the interface so you can't do anything, gotta recopy this partition over to that one.

[giladmttw]

You can use matchbox-remote to try a risky theme. If your theme is felicia and you have made changes to echo, the following command will change to echo, wait 15 seconds and change back to felicia:

matchbox-remote -t echo && sleep 15 && matchbox-remote -t matchbox-remote -t felicia

This only valid to changes in the theme.xml file:

/home/user # find /usr/share/themes/ -name theme.xml
/usr/share/themes/echo/matchbox/theme.xml
/usr/share/themes/felicia/matchbox/theme.xml
/usr/share/themes/glasser/matchbox/theme.xml
/usr/share/themes/hendrika/matchbox/theme.xml
/usr/share/themes/plankton/matchbox/theme.xml
/usr/share/themes/tritanium/matchbox/theme.xml
/usr/share/themes/meta/matchbox/theme.xml
/usr/share/themes/vista3.1/matchbox/theme.xml
/usr/share/themes/echowb/matchbox/theme.xml
/usr/share/themes/borg/matchbox/theme.xml
/usr/share/themes/Buuf/matchbox/theme.xml
/usr/share/themes/Buuf-White/matchbox/theme.xml
/usr/share/themes/FreDiablo/matchbox/theme.xml
/usr/share/themes/nuvopearl/matchbox/theme.xml
/usr/share/themes/nuvopearl/matchbox2/theme.xml
/usr/share/themes/NuvoClear2/matchbox/theme.xml
/usr/share/themes/Diablo5/matchbox/theme.xml


Plenty of candidates to destroy :)

[rocketscientist]

Just discovered telescope - love it - thanks to the programmers for a fantastic program!
:):):):):)

[Mitrandir]

Telescope 2.0~rc3 (extras-devel)
You can specify ‘launcher.disable = yes’ option in /etc/telescope.conf in order to disable App Launcher. Added after several requests from user who want App Switcher but who is ok with built-in Applications menu.

Sorry that development of Telescope was slow in past month. This is due to changes in my regular job (:() and due to my new N900 (:)).

[cstryon]

I'm not seeing the update. I'm fairly sure I have extras-devel enabled. :/ sorry...

[silvermountain]

Sorry that development of Telescope was slow in past month. This is due to changes in my regular job (:() and due to my new N900 (:)).

Thanks for the update (even though I don't see it in the App Manager yet) but more importantly I really hope that your new N900 won't make you forget your N810 and Diablo :)

[Mitrandir]

Have you tried to manually update package list in appmanager or do apt-get update? I just checked it on my N810 -- it sees the upgrade.

I will try hard to continue development under Diablo, because i love my N810 anyway :) I wish it were possible to put N900's chips into N810's case -- this would be the best device for me!

[silvermountain]

Have you tried to manually update package list in appmanager or do apt-get update? I just checked it on my N810 -- it sees the upgrade.

I will try hard to continue development under Diablo, because i love my N810 anyway :) I wish it were possible to put N900's chips into N810's case -- this would be the best device for me!

Got the update now :)

Yeah, I know the lack of processing power of the N810 is starting to show more and more now that it can be compared to newer and more powerful devices. Still, that screen, keyboard and general form factor makes it rather unique - and applications like Telescope makes it more of a joy to use.

Speaking of Telescope...what new features do you realistically see in the future for it?

Will we see;

1) A replacement of the Launcher 'circles' at the bottom of the screen with the names of the actual categories - and the ability to click on them to go directly to that category folder,

2) A status-bar inside Telescope,

3) Portrait support,

4) Something else?

[cstryon]

I got the update now too. But it took a while to see it. Thank you for your work mitrander

[Mitrandir]

silvermountain, lets prioritize tasks that should be done for Telescope. What is the problem #1? #2?
Portrait mode and adding buttons for categories is heavily
connected, because both are having to do with reimplementation of onscreen drawing.

By the way, how many categories do you have in your menu? I think if we implement category buttons with labels (as on Kroll's mockup), buttons will be somewhat small and labels could be truncated. Not very nice.
May be more convient would be two-level icons menu, like with Catorize on Maemo5. I mean when you open launcher, it will display the menu with icons like we have it now, but each icon will represent one category, and after you tap one of them, it opens second-level menu with app icons from this category. Will it be more convenient? Or you don't have many categories and buttons at bottom would be better?

[silvermountain]

silvermountain, lets prioritize tasks that should be done for Telescope. What is the problem #1? #2?
Portrait mode and adding buttons for categories is heavily
connected, because both are having to do with reimplementation of onscreen drawing.

By the way, how many categories do you have in your menu? I think if we implement category buttons with labels (as on Kroll's mockup), buttons will be somewhat small and labels could be truncated. Not very nice.
May be more convient would be two-level icons menu, like with Catorize on Maemo5. I mean when you open launcher, it will display the menu with icons like we have it now, but each icon will represent one category, and after you tap one of them, it opens second-level menu with app icons from this category. Will it be more convenient? Or you don't have many categories and buttons at bottom would be better?

You may have to do a poll for that ;)

Personally, I'd say my top issue is the need for portrait support.

I'm not a fan of the two-icon layer approach as it will add steps/clicks in many situations (clicking 'back out' to the top level, clicking to get to the apps in the first place). Maybe the solution is to substitute the row of circles that now are at the bottom of Launcher with - something like Personal Launcher. A row of round, freely definable icons that each represent a category. And you can click on those small icons (1/4th the size of the app icons or so..) at the bottom to go directly to that category. Allow for, say, 10 icons.

That might be a pain to code though unless you can leverage the code from Personal Launcher ;)

[Mgamerz]

I need a way (like telescope>launcher>script) to kill hildon-desktop... so hopefully stable comes out soon, since the tray keeps locking open, preventing access to apps.

[auouymous]

Telescope won't change apps after viewing the launcher when systemui is not running. One of the window thumbnails is highlighted when home key is pressed but press it two more times and none of the windows are highlighted and tapping anywhere on the screen (thumbnail or desktop) returns to the launcher. Returning to the desktop (tapping on launcher background) and then pressing home key allows a window to be tapped and switched to but none of the windows are highlighted so dpad doesn't work.

I don't know if this is a problem with 2.0~rc3 or if it existed in prior versions but I just found it when I stopped systemui and also tested with powerlaunch.

--

Should "press(F6): shell(...)" work when the launcher is visible or only in the task switcher?

--

The launcher icons should be moved up a little to increase the area below them for easier swiping. :)

[Mitrandir]

Thank you for comments!

key bindings only work in task switcher view for now. Yes, i should activate them in launcher view too.

The swiping area, i think, should be increased to whole screen i think :)

How can i reproduce the bug you described? Will it appear just after i stop systemui? Or should i do something else?

[auouymous]

/etc/init.d/osso-systemui stop

Just do that.

Fullscreen wipe would be even better, unless its not implemented properly and apps are accidentally launched.

[automorphism]

I just tried Telescope. It's really amazing how fast it is without all the extra toolkits. Thanks for all the work put into this application.

[Mitrandir]

Thank you!

[silvermountain]

Maybe I'm remembering wrong but I could had sworn that I was able to move around the open apps in Telescope using the escape key. Now that doesn't work any more. Did something break that - or my memory?

If it's broken, and you're thinking about putting it back...maybe make the same function available when viewing apps through Launcher? :)

[Mitrandir]

Telescope 2.0~rc4 (extras-devel)

auouymous, bug with disabled systemui was fixed. Actually, this was real bug in Telescope, but for some strange reason it was somehow hidded by systemui. Please check that now it is gone.
Reduced flickering when switching between Switcher and Launcher views


If you don't see update in app manager, please wait a bit and try again :)

silvermountain
Not exactly. You was able to move around opened windows with F5 (Home) key and to activate selected one with F4 (Menu) key (many users, including me, have swapped Esc and Menu buttons, may be this is why you remember about Esc).

Now switching windows with Home key is broken because second F5 press calls Launcher instead.

If you have idea about convenient key bindings, please descibe it in details, because i admit that when Launcher was integrated and second F5 key began to show it instead of selecting thumbnails, keyboard control became less useful.
Which key for moving around opened windows?
Which key to activate selected?
Which key to show Launcher?
Which key to go back from Launcher to Telescope?
Which key to show desktop?

[silvermountain]

Telescope 2.0~rc4 (extras-devel)

auouymous, bug with disabled systemui was fixed. Actually, this was real bug in Telescope, but for some strange reason it was somehow hidded by systemui. Please check that now it is gone.
Reduced flickering when switching between Switcher and Launcher views


If you don't see update in app manager, please wait a bit and try again :)


Always thrilled to see an update. Not seeing it in App Manager quite yet but will check in the morning.



silvermountain
Not exactly. You was able to move around opened windows with F5 (Home) key and to activate selected one with F4 (Menu) key (many users, including me, have swapped Esc and Menu buttons, may be this is why you remember about Esc).

Now switching windows with Home key is broken because second F5 press calls Launcher instead.

If you have idea about convenient key bindings, please descibe it in details, because i admit that when Launcher was integrated and second F5 key began to show it instead of selecting thumbnails, keyboard control became less useful.
Which key for moving around opened windows?
Which key to activate selected?
Which key to show Launcher?
Which key to go back from Launcher to Telescope?
Which key to show desktop?

Ah yes, that's how it worked.

How about:

Start Telescope: Home Key
Start Launcher: Press Home Key again
Go from Launcher to Telescope: Press Home key
Exit to Desktop (from Telescope): Tap any area outside of the app windows - or press Escape
Exit to Desktop (from Launcher): Tap any area outside of the app windows - or press Escape
(All the above is the way things work now)

If N810 keyboard is open (or an N800):
Move around open apps in Telescope: Dpad direction keys
Activate app in Telescope: Center key in Dpad

If N810 is closed (or an N800):
Use zoom + and - keys to move left and right among the apps

:)

I

[Mitrandir]

I'm usually posting update announce here immediately after autobuilder sends me confirmation saying that my package was successfully built. But automatic uploading binary package to repository often takes some more time, from 10 sec up to several hours. So, when you are reading my announce, the package could be on its way to repository yet :)
I'm usually checking if package is ready by this link (http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/diablo/free/t/telescope/). But even if new build is here, repository index files could be not rebuilt yet and app manager will not see update in this case. But you can install package by direct link if you're impatient :)


Zoom keys for selecting windows is good idea. All other keys already working as you described if remember correctly. Zoom keys can be easily added using /etc/telescope.keys file and i will add them there in next update.

[auouymous]

Zoom keys to select app and fullscreen to switch to selected app would be a good idea. Escape key could be used to go to desktop from either app switcher or launcher.

And thank you for fixing the systemui bug so quickly, now I can remove it and attach my own! :)

[cstryon]

Thanks for the update. Always exciting to see updates!
I like the hardware key options Silvermountain suggests.

[inoshishi]

I still would like an easy way to navigate between menus in the Launcher using a hardware key.
My personal suggestion would be to hit "Home" again. Maybe there is a key shortcut I didn't try.

[Mitrandir]

Telescope 2.0~rc5 (extras-devel)

Big optimization of memory usage on X-Server side. Telescope now uses 10 Mb less memory. Seems that Launcher was using memory not very effectively and created many unnecessary pixmaps.
Portrait mode support in Launcher

[auouymous]

Portrait mode support in Launcher

Thank you!!!

[silvermountain]

Thanks, can't wait to install this tonight! :)

Edit: Installed and the portrait support is working excellent from what I can tell after 5-10 mins use. Thanks!

[cstryon]

I agree, excellent work!

[Mitrandir]

Thanks, guys :)

[maacruz]

Thanks! Impact on swap usage is huge!

[excelar8]

how come telescope doesn't appear in my applications manager?

[Mitrandir]

excelar8
May be you have it already installed? Try to find it in installed application list.
Btw, newer releases of Telescope (2.0) are available only in Extras-devel repository which is not recommended to use unless you are ready to kill your tablet

[excelar8]

excelar8
May be you have it already installed? Try to find it in installed application list.
Btw, newer releases of Telescope (2.0) are available only in Extras-devel repository which is not recommended to use unless you are ready to kill your tablet

i definitely don't have it installed, i even checked the uninstall list in application manager

and aren't applications from extras-devel shown in Application Manager if we have the repository enabled? it's enabled in mine so it should appear right?

and what do you mean by "ready to kill my tablet"?

[Mitrandir]

Right, it should appear there if you have correctly enabled Extras-devel repository.

I meant that Extras-Devel repo contains newest versions of software, and so unstable and buggy. They might have not been tested carefully yet and so can cause various issues. So, it usually advised to not install this repo unless you are ready for problems ;)

Telescope is in both Extras (version 1.0.3) and Extras-Devel (version 2.0~rc5). Proof links:
http://repository.maemo.org/extras/pool/diablo/free/t/telescope/
http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/diablo/free/t/telescope/

So, you may check that you have correctly enabled repository. Could you run as root following commands and post here the output:
cat /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list
apt-get update

[excelar8]

Right, it should appear there if you have correctly enabled Extras-devel repository.

I meant that Extras-Devel repo contains newest versions of software, and so unstable and buggy. They might have not been tested carefully yet and so can cause various issues. So, it usually advised to not install this repo unless you are ready for problems ;)

Telescope is in both Extras (version 1.0.3) and Extras-Devel (version 2.0~rc5). Proof links:
http://repository.maemo.org/extras/pool/diablo/free/t/telescope/
http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/diablo/free/t/telescope/

So, you may check that you have correctly enabled repository. Could you run as root following commands and post here the output:
cat /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list
apt-get update

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs124.ash2/39549_485883201256_548236256_7247446_7918015_n.jpg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs407.snc4/47055_485883226256_548236256_7247447_78579_n.jpg

[excelar8]

here's the extended output:

e/user # apt-get update
Hit http://repository.maemo.org fremantle-1.2 Release.gpg
Hit https://downloads.maemo.nokia.com ./ Release.gpg
Ign http://repository.maemo.org fremantle-1.2/free Translation-en_US
Ign http://repository.maemo.org fremantle-1.2/non-free Translation-en_US
Hit http://repository.maemo.org fremantle-1.2 Release.gpg
Ign http://repository.maemo.org fremantle-1.2/free Translation-en_US
Ign http://repository.maemo.org fremantle-1.2/non-free Translation-en_US
Get:1 http://repository.maemo.org fremantle Release.gpg [489B]
Ign http://repository.maemo.org fremantle/free Translation-en_US
Ign https://downloads.maemo.nokia.com ./ Translation-en_US
Ign http://repository.maemo.org fremantle/non-free Translation-en_US
Hit http://repository.maemo.org fremantle Release.gpg
Hit https://downloads.maemo.nokia.com ./ Release.gpg
Ign http://repository.maemo.org fremantle/free Translation-en_US
Ign http://repository.maemo.org fremantle/non-free Translation-en_US
Ign https://downloads.maemo.nokia.com ./ Translation-en_US
Get:2 http://moff.mozilla.com chinook Release.gpg [189B]
Ign http://moff.mozilla.com chinook/release Translation-en_US
Hit https://downloads.maemo.nokia.com ./ Release.gpg
Get:3 http://moff.mozilla.com chinook Release.gpg [189B]
Ign http://moff.mozilla.com chinook/release Translation-en_US
Get:4 http://moff.mozilla.com chinook Release.gpg [189B]
Ign https://downloads.maemo.nokia.com ./ Translation-en_US
Ign http://moff.mozilla.com chinook/release Translation-en_US
Hit https://downloads.maemo.nokia.com ./ Release
Hit https://downloads.maemo.nokia.com ./ Release
Hit https://downloads.maemo.nokia.com ./ Release
Ign http://repository.sygic.com fremantle Release.gpg
Ign http://repository.sygic.com fremantle/non-free Translation-en_US
Ign https://downloads.maemo.nokia.com ./ Packages/DiffIndex
Ign http://codex.xiaoka.com fremantle-1.2 Release.gpg
Ign http://codex.xiaoka.com fremantle-1.2/free Translation-en_US
Ign http://codex.xiaoka.com fremantle-1.2/non-free Translation-en_US
Hit http://repository.maemo.org fremantle-1.2 Release
Ign https://downloads.maemo.nokia.com ./ Packages/DiffIndex
Hit http://repository.maemo.org fremantle-1.2 Release
Get:5 http://repository.maemo.org fremantle Release [7958B]
Hit http://repository.maemo.org fremantle Release
Hit http://moff.mozilla.com chinook Release
Ign https://downloads.maemo.nokia.com ./ Packages/DiffIndex
Hit http://moff.mozilla.com chinook Release
Hit https://downloads.maemo.nokia.com ./ Packages
Hit https://downloads.maemo.nokia.com ./ Packages
Hit http://moff.mozilla.com chinook Release
Hit https://downloads.maemo.nokia.com ./ Packages
Ign http://repository.sygic.com fremantle Release
Hit http://codex.xiaoka.com fremantle-1.2 Release
Ign http://repository.maemo.org fremantle-1.2/free Packages/DiffIndex
Ign http://repository.maemo.org fremantle-1.2/non-free Packages/DiffIndex
Ign http://repository.maemo.org fremantle-1.2/free Packages/DiffIndex
Ign http://repository.maemo.org fremantle-1.2/non-free Packages/DiffIndex
Ign http://repository.maemo.org fremantle/free Packages/DiffIndex
Ign http://repository.maemo.org fremantle/non-free Packages/DiffIndex
Ign http://repository.maemo.org fremantle/free Packages/DiffIndex
Ign http://repository.maemo.org fremantle/non-free Packages/DiffIndex
Get:6 http://moff.mozilla.com chinook Release [759B]
Ign http://moff.mozilla.com chinook Release
Get:7 http://moff.mozilla.com chinook Release [759B]
Ign http://moff.mozilla.com chinook Release
Get:8 http://moff.mozilla.com chinook Release [759B]
Ign http://moff.mozilla.com chinook Release
Ign http://repository.sygic.com fremantle/non-free Packages/DiffIndex
Ign http://codex.xiaoka.com fremantle-1.2/free Packages/DiffIndex
Ign http://codex.xiaoka.com fremantle-1.2/non-free Packages/DiffIndex
Hit http://repository.maemo.org fremantle-1.2/free Packages
Hit http://repository.maemo.org fremantle-1.2/non-free Packages
Hit http://repository.maemo.org fremantle-1.2/free Packages
Hit http://repository.maemo.org fremantle-1.2/non-free Packages
Get:9 http://repository.maemo.org fremantle/free Packages [5879kB]
Get:10 http://repository.maemo.org fremantle/non-free Packages [602kB]
Hit http://repository.maemo.org fremantle/free Packages
Hit http://repository.maemo.org fremantle/non-free Packages
Ign http://moff.mozilla.com chinook/release Packages/DiffIndex
Ign http://moff.mozilla.com chinook/release Packages/DiffIndex
Ign http://moff.mozilla.com chinook/release Packages/DiffIndex
Hit http://repository.sygic.com fremantle/non-free Packages
Hit http://codex.xiaoka.com fremantle-1.2/free Packages
Hit http://codex.xiaoka.com fremantle-1.2/non-free Packages
Hit http://moff.mozilla.com chinook/release Packages
Hit http://moff.mozilla.com chinook/release Packages
Hit http://moff.mozilla.com chinook/release Packages
Fetched 6493kB in 37s (173kB/s)
Reading package lists... Done
W: Conflicting distribution: http://repository.maemo.org fremantle-1.2 Release (expected fremantle-1.2 but got )
W: GPG error: http://moff.mozilla.com chinook Release: The following signatures couldn't be verified because the public key is not available: NO_PUBKEY 667387BFFF445C24
W: GPG error: http://moff.mozilla.com chinook Release: The following signatures couldn't be verified because the public key is not available: NO_PUBKEY 667387BFFF445C24
W: GPG error: http://moff.mozilla.com chinook Release: The following signatures couldn't be verified because the public key is not available: NO_PUBKEY 667387BFFF445C24
W: Duplicate sources.list entry http://repository.maemo.org fremantle-1.2/free Packages (/var/lib/apt/lists/repository.maemo.org_extras_dists_fremantle-1.2_free_binary-armel_Packages)
W: Duplicate sources.list entry http://repository.maemo.org fremantle-1.2/non-free Packages (/var/lib/apt/lists/repository.maemo.org_extras_dists_fremantle-1.2_non-free_binary-armel_Packages)
W: You may want to run apt-get update to correct these problems
/home/user #

[Mitrandir]

Ehmm... Which model of the device do you have? N900? :)
Telescope is only for N8x0 tablets. If you have N900, you don't need Telescope — you already have visual task switching and fullscreen application menu in Maemo5. Telescope was created to give the same experience to owners of great but legacy N8x0 devices.
Enjoy your N900 ;)

[excelar8]

oh wtf haha alright sorry for the confusion! i thought telescope was a better visual task swticher cuz they were significantly larger thumbnails as well as its capability in portrait mode lmao.. which raises the question why ours isn't like that

[Mitrandir]

which raises the question why ours isn't like that
Because no one have tried to improve hildon2 in maemo5 yet :)
AFAIK, hildon is fully opensourced now, including hildon2 from Maemo5. So, if you interested, you can freely hack it ;)

[auouymous]

Add the following line to /etc/telescope.keys

press(F6): shell(/usr/bin/oss-xterm)

Press fullscreen key in telescope to launch xterm. Close xterm and you now have a zombie process until you restart telescope. Works with any application launched with telescope's shell command.

This bug helped me test zombie highlighting in my app but now I'm finished so you can fix it if you want. :)

[Mitrandir]

Thank you! Actually, i have't tested this functionality very carefully (though it was working for a couple of randomly chosen commands). This is easy to fix because i already have working launching code written by angun for Launcher part

[Onyros]

I'm having a few problems on my N800 since I updated to the latest RC version of Telescope. After I first click on Telescope statusbar applet, nothing else will be clickable.

I didn't install anything else, nor did I update any other apps, and it didn't happen before the update.

Any ideas?

[Mitrandir]

Ouch, sounds like a serious defect :(
Does this happens if you call Telescope with Home key? Or only with statusbar applet?

[Onyros]

It's definitely the statusbar applet. I uninstalled after confirming it would happen every time - first things on the statusbar stopped being clickable as well as on the desktop, eventually even things on apps you had open as well.

Now I still have Telescope and it works perfectly, just don't have the statusbar installed now so... no bugs with the main app.

[yukop4]

POC i dare say

[Mitrandir]

Onyros, i was able to reproduce the bug on recently reflashed n810. Thanks, i will try to fix this.

yukop4, what does it mean? :)

[Onyros]

We can only hope he meant Piece Of Cake ;)

Thanks, Mitrandir! Keep up the great job! Telescope + Diablo theme are simply a killer combination for the N8xx.

[Kroll]

Telescope and Telescope Launcher applets works fine for me.

[Mitrandir]

This issue seems to be caused by incorrect syncronization of X11 and D-Bus handlers... And like any other syncronization problem it appears only sometimes and sometimes hides.
I need to build more consistent event subsystem for telescope...

[Mitrandir]

Telescope 2.0~rc6 (extras-devel)

Fixed interaction with statusbar applet. Onyros, please check this.

[fpp]

Actually I had that happen to me a while ago. As it was the first time I thought it was a problem with my N810 and didn't report it -- just uninstalled the taskbar applet and forgot about it :-)

Will try again with the new version...

[Onyros]

Telescope 2.0~rc6 (extras-devel)

Fixed interaction with statusbar applet. Onyros, please check this.
Working for me! Thank you very much :D

[Mitrandir]

Great!

Who came up with this stupid 10-chars limit!?

[Onyros]

Hahaha, I think it's meant to avoid all the "+1", "+2" answers.

Mitrandir, you should really develop something like this meant for the desktop. I'd love to have something as fast to switch between open windows on the desktop.

I've tried Skippy and everything, as I'm using very minimalist WMs (DWM and sometimes Fluxbox on Arch Linux) but Telescope is just so fast and working perfectly that I'd love to use something like it, with no bloat whatsoever and all the functionality.

[Kroll]

Hahaha, I think it's meant to avoid all the "+1", "+2" answers.

Mitrandir, you should really develop something like this meant for the desktop. I'd love to have something as fast to switch between open windows on the desktop.

I've tried Skippy and everything, as I'm using very minimalist WMs (DWM and sometimes Fluxbox on Arch Linux) but Telescope is just so fast and working perfectly that I'd love to use something like it, with no bloat whatsoever and all the functionality.

There is a desktop version of Telescope (at least for Ubuntu)...

[Onyros]

Can you point me to it, Kroll? I don't seem to find it anywhere. If it's working with Ubuntu it won't be a problem with Arch, I suppose.

[Kroll]

I can't, but Mitrandir can. I know one guy who uses Telescope on Smartq with Ubuntu.

[Mitrandir]

Yes, Telescope can be easily ported to desktop, and one guy have successfully integrated it into mobile ubuntu running on SmartQ tablet.

But, why you don't like compiz or skippy? They are much more tested on desktop :)

[Onyros]

Well, Compiz is overkill for what I want and Skippy is slow, unmaintained for a long time, old!

I bet you you'd have lots of adopters if it is ever introduced at Arch.

[Mitrandir]

Okay, i will try to check how it will work on desktop

What is the packaging system on Arch linux?

[Onyros]

Arch uses its own packaging system, its a ports-like system which builds packages from source. So whatever you can build from source and satisfy dependencies (which will be easy since Arch is a rolling-release, bleeding-edge distro) you can most certainly build in Arch.

It also has its own package manager (pacman), which does the binary package management.

[Mitrandir]

Ok, thanks. Anyway, integrating to Arch is certainly a long-term task :)

I will try to find time to test Telescope on desktop linux. Actually, i have already tried to run it under KDE and it was working well, except the F5 hotkey to show telescope is not suitable for desktop.

[Kroll]

Usually I use one of the extra buttons on the mouse (for example forward) or corner of the screen to show open windows in Compiz thumbnails task switcher.

[elliott]

Ok, thanks. Anyway, integrating to Arch is certainly a long-term task :)
If you can get it to build on Ubuntu or whatever and provide build instructions and a source tarball, I can make an Arch package, or at least a PKGBUILD so other Arch users could build the package easily.

[Mgamerz]

This ever going to come out of extras-devel?

[Mitrandir]

There are still a few issues in 2.0 branch that i must fix before releasing in to Extras...

[Mgamerz]

I see. Would love an update, telescope feels dead...
And waiting for a better menu still.

[cstryon]

Maybe my Diablo5ers and Telescope user comrads can help me on this. I only noticed this after starting to use Diablo 5 and Telescope, when I boot up my n810, the startup sound once it shows the desktop is "Hello, this is Linus Torvalds, and I pronounce Linux as Linux!". But for the life of me I can't find the audio file. Is this something with telescope or Diablo5? Or have I just been missing this sound byte till recently?

[tso]

Did you install any kind of dual booting setup? I think its related to that. The file is a classical audio system test btw, used by various distro during late 90s, early 00s to check if the correct driver had been selected.

[cstryon]

Oh that makes sense. Yes I do have it booting from mmc1 with clone on the flash. Is there a way I can tell that to stop. I appreciate the proper pronunciation, but I think I've had enough >.<.

[tso]

i suspect this may be of help:
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=23558

[Mitrandir]

Haha, i think you have installed some sound package. I don't think this can have something to do with dualboot, because with dualboot the OSes cannot affect each other

Mgamerz, i will try to find time for telescope... You know, Telescope is anyway the hobby project. It would be great if somebody with coding skills could help to speed it up

[Mgamerz]

I have no coding skills yet, gonna be taking objective c in spring.
And that remove linux from boot thread is from me, its made from console tools. You just need an emput file in something under /usr... don't remember what.

[cstryon]

i suspect this may be of help:
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=23558

Yep, this thread did help. Was able to disable and remove wave, less annoyance, and more space :)

[Addison]

One request?

I usually only have 2 or 3 windows open at one time.

If it's that low, could Telescope use this command instead of displaying the windows on the screen?

matchbox-remote -next


Please? :)

[Mitrandir]

You mean run this command on F5 press instead of showing UI?

[Addison]

Absolutely!

I think you'll love this idea! :D

[Mitrandir]

Doesn't it means that you don't need telescope completely? :)
If F5 will call matchbox-remote, then there is no way for you to show telescope's UI, right?

[Addison]

Yep!

Exactly!

It still would make an awesome feature for those who are using their tablet lightly while having only like 2 or 3 windows currently running at the time. :)

[Addison]

Honestly, there's really not much of a reason to see Telescope's UI with that few of windows running.

Just my opinion though.

[auouymous]

It would be really cool to cycle through windows using F5 but then there is no way to open the launcher.

[Kroll]

Here I made a picture of Telescope I wanna see on my tablet :P

P.S. Icons from Diablo 5 theme for Diablo, release soon!

http://s2.itrash.ru/idb/2b4ca91abf3753ee48b6fbad5fe89ab4/oDiablo5_1.png

[auouymous]

Here I made a picture of Telescope I wanna see on my tablet

Would be nice to have that icon bar to select categories and replace the category name at top and the dots at bottom. If the category spilled over into a second page it could display the current page number and max page number on the selected icon and tapping that icon would cycle through the pages for that category.

Only problem would be assigning icons to categories and only showing icons for the installed categories. I assume there would be a default icon that is bound to any category it doesn't know about. But if I rename the internet category I should be able to manually bind the globe icon to it.

There is also the problem of too many categories. I only have six but what about those that have more than eight? Do the icons get smaller (not good for finger tapping) or do left and right arrows appear on the ends or does a single icon appear on one end that cycles through icon bars?

[Addison]

Here I made a picture of Telescope I wanna see on my tablet :P

P.S. Icons from Diablo 5 theme for Diablo, release soon!


I loves it! http://http.cdnlayer.com/cf/images/smilies/onion/love2.gif

[Kroll]

Would be nice to have that icon bar to select categoriesActually there is a version of Telescope in repos with bar. just update. But now it's very simple and looks not so nice :)

But if I rename the internet category I should be able to manually bind the globe icon to it.Yep, long tap on the category will open a dialog or something and user will able to select a different icon.

There is also the problem of too many categories.Yes it is. There is enough space for nine categories, but thats it. But I reaaly don't think somebody needs so many categories. There is no much software for Diablo, just it :(
There is another my idea that you may scroll this bar like mynook.ru launcher for nook: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LO5jpgunFOE

If the category spilled over into a second pageMaybe we can make a iphone-like thing: drag the screen to the left or right to change a page? But your idea is good too!



Thanks for comments!

[Kroll]

If the category spilled over into a second page it could display the current page number and max page number on the selected icon and tapping that icon would cycle through the pages for that category.

What about this one?
http://s2.itrash.ru/idb/f71415a10d11d87b50881dbbf0cc13dc/oDiablo5-bar-multipage.png

[n9ots]

Kroll said: There is enough space for nine categories, but thats it.

I currently have 18 tabs.
I do agree that it is ugly, but it works

[Kroll]

I currently have 18 tabs.I meant there is space for 9 icons and it will be perfectly nice. Of course you can make more categories, but it will be ugly.

[auouymous]

This new bar is awesome! Why wasn't there an announcement about the release?

What about this one?

I think it would better if it had the current page number in one corner and the total number of pages in the other. Would help to show that the category has multiple pages and what page is showing. If you want to keep it graphical maybe you could add "folder tabs" along the top of the button representing each page and highlight the current tab in blue.

I currently have 18 tabs.
I do agree that it is ugly, but it works

Are half of those multiple pages in the same categories?

[n9ots]

Are half of those multiple pages in the same categories?

I have 12 discrete categories (added a bunch to see if they would be shown), 3 have multiple pages.

[Kroll]

Why wasn't there an announcement about the release?because it is only release candidate :)


I think it would better if it had the current page number in one corner and the total number of pages in the other. Would help to show that the category has multiple pages and what page is showing. If you want to keep it graphical maybe you could add "folder tabs" along the top of the button representing each page and highlight the current tab in blue.Good. Lets try to make something like it. Tomorrow.

[auouymous]

The new category bar doesn't draw the names in portrait mode. It also doesn't switch to desktop when the launcher background is tapped in portrait mode.

EDIT: After switching back to landscape the category names are gone. Restarting Telescope brings back the names in either orientation but they stop working as soon as the screen is rotated. The background tapping goes to desktop when the names are visible but stops working when the names are broken.

[Mitrandir]

Yes, portrait mode breaks it all. I will try to fix this today. Category bar will remain it's position while rotating. I mean, it will be at bottom in landscape and at left side in portrait mode.
Because we can pack 12 categories in 800px, but not in 480px :)

[Mitrandir]

Telescope 2.0~rc10


Fixed font rendering that was not so accurate. Slight shadow added.
Portrait mode fixed. Now panel will not rotate with the screen. App icons will be rotated as before.
App icons layout changed a little: now icons will take full screen width


(Obviously, ‘2.0’ version was introduced too early...)