Get Java on your Nokia N800

[YoDude]

It was just a matter of time...

Thanks to Sun's open source PhoneME project, Brian Coughlin (Sr. Technology Strategist at Sprint) told me this week that it was trivially easy to put a Java ME CDC Foundation Profile runtime on the N800. He posted instructions on how to build Java for the N800, as well as a download link for a binary


Binary >> http://wiki.java.net/bin/view/Mobileandembedded/PhoneMEAdvancedPlatformsNokia800


Watch out you don't step in the flying pig doodoo... :)

[AndyTheSwede]

Say what? I didn't understand a word of that. :o

[aleksandyr]

Not precisely news, but it's good to hear someone else is giving it a shot too.

Actually, the fact the instructions are updated is quite nice. The old ones had issues on my system. Might resurrect my (extremely hackish) attempts to get a GUI on this :)

[Texrat]

Oops... I think I just wet myself...:o :D

[YoDude]

Say what? I didn't understand a word of that. :o

I remember a post either here or another Maemo board awhile ago stating "pigs will fly before the N800/Nokia supports JAVA"...

Apparently Sprint is digging the N800 "non-phone" device as a way subscribers can use their future WiMAX network. This fits in well with Sun's "phoneME Project Vision" >> https://phoneme.dev.java.net/phoneme_vision.html

If Nokia doesn't fall asleep at the switch, they may find themselves on the profit side of the "tipping point" with the N800...
What with the money rethinking the need for a UMPC or Microsoft's fingerprints all over any other portable connectivity device.

We will all have web servers in our dang pockets soon!

Not precisely news, but it's good to hear someone else is giving it a shot too.

Actually, the fact the instructions are updated is quite nice. The old ones had issues on my system. Might resurrect my (extremely hackish) attempts to get a GUI on this :)

Yup, IBM's WebSphere was close. I got it running on my WinMo PPC. It's old and I didn't think it was worth the effort on the N800... A GUI would be sweet BTW. Good luck with your efforts on this. :)

[ARock]

Any news on getting the Java to work?

Just watching the F1 qualifying and Räikkönen surely taking the pole :) and wondering if ill ever use the F1 live timing on my n800...

[maxilogan]

Any news on getting the Java to work?

Just watching the F1 qualifying and Räikkönen surely taking the pole :) and wondering if ill ever use the F1 live timing on my n800...

I used to install live-f1 on my 770, but since I have the N800 I didn't install it again. Try here http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2279

[DemonBob]

http://wiki.java.net/bin/view/Mobileandembedded/PhoneMEAdvancedPlatformsNokia800

[jpramlak]

Came across this post - "Java and the Nokia n810" at http://weblogs.java.net/blog/jfalkner/archive/2007/12/java_and_the_no.html

Anyone try this as yet? (I don't have a N8x0 as yet)

-Jay

[urnass]

Yes, I installed Jalimo on OS2007. It installed fine and the example program works, but I haven't done much else with it though.

Out of the box, it doesn't allow you to run Java applets in the Web browser (by primary purpose for try it).

Does anyone if and how to run Java applets in the brower?

[rdcinhou]

From what I understand after reading a thread at a Nokia developers forum, the lack of Java on the N8x0 is somewhat political.

That is, there are hardware enhancements in the devices to facilitate Java, but because the negotiated license hasn't approved the implementation on this platform, no one can use the enhancements.

No one then wants to develop a purely software solution as a settlement to the licensing issue would obviate their development.

[aflegg]

Link? That's certainly a snippet of information we've never heard before...

[fms]

That is, there are hardware enhancements in the devices to facilitate Java, but because the negotiated license hasn't approved the implementation on this platform, no one can use the enhancements.
THAT would be Jazelle - a hardware feature of some ARM CPUs that lets you run Java byte-code kind-of natively on the CPU. Historically, the wide adoption of Jazelle has been plagued by license issues. As I understand things, ARM will only let you use Jazelle when you pay them a license fee.

[aflegg]

THAT would be Jazelle - a hardware feature of some ARM CPUs that lets you run Java byte-code kind-of natively on the CPU. Historically, the wide adoption of Jazelle has been plagued by license issues. As I understand things, ARM will only let you use Jazelle when you pay them a license fee.

Indeed. I'm fairly certain that rdcinhou didn't mean to imply that:


There's a working implementation, they just can't release.
There're ongoing discussions to resolve the licencing issue for (1)


Jazelle is proprietary; if Nokia wanted to, they could pay ARM for a licence. Ari Jaaksi has said they don't view Java as a priority for browsing the web these days.

Jalimo - and lardman's work on reverse engineering Jazella - are our best options for those of us who quite like the idea of developing Java applications for Maemo. Google's work in Android on rapid startup & execution of Java bytecode (via an additional compilation step) in resource-constrained environments could also be very interesting.

[TobyK]

Is there any way to use Jalimo or this phoneME thing to run j2me apps? In particular, has anyone got amazegps, nav4all, opera mini, mxit, mig33, or mobizines working on the n8x0? Java applets would be great as well because all the stock charts I use are java based.

[dunsun]

Hmm still wating for a real and working java with Swing support. I have got lot of imaginations for what I could use it for. Moreover I could start my allready completed applications there ... still hope a day will come.

[Benson]

Is there any way to use Jalimo or this phoneME thing to run j2me apps? In particular, has anyone got amazegps, nav4all, opera mini, mxit, mig33, or mobizines working on the n8x0? Java applets would be great as well because all the stock charts I use are java based.
phoneME targets J2ME, so that should be your line of attack. However, it's far from end-user ready. And I consider myself a JRE end-user (that is to say, one who programs small Java apps, but doesn't really play with "system-level" stuff much), and have not been able to persuade it to work, nor tried especially hard. Jalimo, AFAIK, is targeting J2SE, so it would be a better way to go after applets... Haven't tried that yet, but it should be more user-friendly. Even so, there's no browser integration; I suspect you may be able to run some applets as standalone, non-hildonized X apps from an xterm. Maybe I should have said "more nearly user-friendly" ;). But I'll be trying it when I get time, whereas I've totally given up on phoneME.

[TobyK]

dunsun - jalimo has a working swt example, if that helps. I prefer swt to swing anyways. It's a one-click install that installs java (cacao) + everything else needed to run the demo. See www.jalimo.org

[TobyK]

Benson - it's the non-end-user-friendliness that gets me :( I think with jalimo + midpath, one might be able to get java midlets running, but it seems to require human-parsing of jad file to construct the cryptic command to launch the jar. Wish someone could hack together a python script or something to make it easier :)

[dunsun]

dunsun - jalimo has a working swt example, if that helps. I prefer swt to swing anyways. It's a one-click install that installs java (cacao) + everything else needed to run the demo. See www.jalimo.org

Yes, I now these guys. But unfortunately I'm on a Swing train. I prefer Swing so I use it for coding all my stuff.

[ghoonk]

IAri Jaaksi has said they don't view Java as a priority for browsing the web these days.

Not surprising. I'm guessing that one way the came to this conclusion was to have a good sample size of users and then observed what internet properties they visited over a period of time, and then arrived at the conclusion that less than x% of the sites visited required Java, and many more required Flash, hence the decision to prioitize Flash over Java.

So far, Internet banking is the only thing I can't do with my N800 that I do on my PC

[aflegg]

I don't view Mahjongg as a priority for browsing the web, but my wife still enjoys it on her tablet.

Personally, I'd rather have a JRE (and not for applets)

[TA-t3]

Not surprising. I'm guessing that one way the came to this conclusion was to have a good sample size of users and then observed what internet properties they visited over a period of time, and then arrived at the conclusion that less than x% of the sites visited required Java, and many more required Flash, hence the decision to prioitize Flash over Java.
That's probably what they did, and it's the wrong way. Because the number of times sites are visited says nothing about the importance of it. For example, I probably visit hundreds of sites between every time I visit my bank, but the bank site is by far the most important one.. and it requires java applet support as part of its authentication sequence. So I can't use my N800 for this for me extremely important task.

[Benson]

It's heavily influenced by ads, too. Many sites I visit have flash (for annoying ads), but I wouldn't care if it was gone. OTOH, Java is pretty much only represented by sites where that's the whole point. No Java ads weighting things to help out. :(

[Texrat]

the bank site is by far the most important one.. and it requires java applet support as part of its authentication sequence. So I can't use my N800 for this for me extremely important task.

Which makes me wonder why your bank isn't using JSP instead, so the java is on the server. Or is it not possible in this case?

[cool_guy]

Java mobilephone games on n800? So far i only saw hello world exxample?

Or are games only prioritised for SonnyErikson phones? (beeing anoyed that 90+% of those that people show otf don't run on my Samsung D600)
There also apps like bluethooth remote controls, .....
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The other thing is java demonstrations for physics laws and such (often as applets)

[Slixor]

Any way to get java into the browser, so you could play java games on the web?

[febb]

For me, let alone games. !

There are many banks that use java for their online banking applications, so having java on the NITs would be a great plus to many, in order to have full access to financial data and banking (and ultimately your money) thru the Internet Table.

My 2 cents.



Any way to get java into the browser, so you could play java games on the web?

[iamthewalrus]

It is a shame that there is actually hardware on the Tablets to run java (Jazelle) but it isn't active because Nokia chose not buy a licence for it. If you happen to use a Linux pc at home you could log into your pc securely by VNC over SSH (http://www.internettablettalk.com/wiki/index.php?title=How_to_access_a_linux_pc_desktop_f rom_an_Internet_Tablet_using_VNC_and_SSH) and do your banking that way.