Palm Foleo

[bobhodgen]

Here's a link to Palm's new product:

http://www.palm.com/us/products/mobilecompanion/foleo/index.html?creativeID=US_BB_foleo_announcement

It's a 10 inch laptop.

Bob

[barry99705]

It's an underpowered 10" laptop that needs a bluetooth equipped "smart" phone to sync your email with. Microsoft already tried, and failed with this form factor.

[bcvthul]

Well, the Foleo should, when WiFi is in range, work without the use of a smartphone.

[Texrat]

I hope it's successful. That's not a bad price.

[harliquin]

Anyone find more techinical specs for it?

[Milhouse]

From the webcast...

10" size, 2lb weight/
1024x800 screen, no touchscreen.
WiFi, Bluetooth, solid state (no hard disk), flash memory expansion.

Someone asked what memory could be used to extend memory and the Palm rep with Hawkins (Kelly Kirkpatrick) replied that this information would be announced closer to the launch date - I'd have thought he could have said "SD, CF, MMC etc." but maybe that's still up in the air? Leaving it late...

Not impressed by Hawkins in the video... he seems like someone desperately trying to flog something and make it sound exciting which would have been possible 2 years ago but is now today nothing special and in fact a little embarassing.

Oh dear, if I wanted something this physically large I'd get myself a laptop. This has the potential to bomb quite badly.

Scanning the Palm forums where all the Palm fanboys are watching the same presentation I see the Folio has already been dubbed the "Fooleo" so even they're not digging this. Shame.

[LordFu]

Congratulations, you invented the laptop. Color me disappointed. Have fun in bankruptcy court.

[Milhouse]

Question: "What will video be like, can I watch youtube?"
A (Hawkins): "The processor is a little underpowered, YouTube videos will be a little jerky, we're a bit disappointed about that but we found out about it quite late"

Not. A. Good. Admission.

[Milhouse]

Pictures (http://www.palminfocenter.com/news/9436/palm-officially-introduces-the-foleo/).

...

[docnesh]

This is tough... I was ready to order a nokia n800 but waited until this announcement... I have a very capable smartphone currently but decided that I wanted a larger display and more capable browser...

The deciding factor for me was going to be the CPU, what memory cards it supported and the display quality... on first glance the foleo looked exactly like what I wanted but after hearing Hawkins admit to the machine being underpowered for flash video playback I can only assume the processor is not much better than the nokia n800. Also debating if I would prefer a touchscreen and more portability.... so despite being initially drawn in by the foleo I am slowly coming back to the realization that the n800 may be the best device for me.

The biggest draw is the maturity of the internet tablet development community... looking on palm's site I see there are no developer tools available until they are closer to release.

I guess my ideal device would fall somewhere between the two... I wish nokia would release a nokia 880 which would have a more powerful CPU, and a 5" display

[Milhouse]

Obviously I'm biased, but judging by the comments in this (http://discussion.treocentral.com/showthread.php?p=1268938#post1268938) thread (the presentation started at 11:30AM PST after which time the thread became very, VERY, negative) I'd have to say the Foleo has more in common with a citrus fruit than a ground breaking, category redefining computing product.

Time will tell, but it's not being well received by the faithful in which case who else will buy into it?

[RobMtl007]

Greetings:

Does anyone have a idea of an price in US dollars.

Also when will it be shipped.

Regards Robert

[Texrat]

This device is the sort of thing I was referring to in another thread when I opined that there isn't much market space for devices between the form factor of the N800 and a very small laptop. However, I think this certainly comes in at the extreme lower end of the latter category. Only problem IMO is the CPU. If it's that underpowered, I can't see a compelling reason to buy it. I still hope it's successful though, if for no other reason than to drive the small computing device market forward.

[Milhouse]

From PIC (http://www.palminfocenter.com/news/9436/palm-officially-introduces-the-foleo/):


U.S. availability for the Palm Foleo mobile companion will begin this summer. The price of the Foleo mobile companion is expected to be $499 after an introductory $100 rebate.


Don't rush into a purchase, you should be able to pick one up in a firesale come September.

[Milhouse]

I still hope it's successful though, if for no other reason than to drive the small computing device market forward.

The problem is, it's not very small! :)

The Foleo is a nice concept (sort of - probably ahead of it's time and is limited to Palm Treos) but a very bad form factor.

[Texrat]

Yeah, I know.

The pundits agree, too:

Why, look at that: Palm (PALM) has come out with a Linux laptop.

This is the vaunted "third product" to come out of Palm - a company responsible for the breakthrough PalmPilot and the Treo smartphone, two devices which pretty much created their categories and still stand alone compared to rivals' offerings.

The Foleo is, alas, nothing like its forebears.

Instead of a breakthrough, Palm's delivered a me-too product, an entirely unremarkable device that's unworthy of being associated with Jeff Hawkins, Palm's cofounder and the creator of the Pilot and the Treo.

Just look at the stats: 2.5 pounds, five-hour battery life, 10-inch screen, Bluetooth and Wi-Fi, $499 after a $100 rebate. For a little bit more, you could get a much more capable Windows notebook.


http://blogs.business2.com/beta/2007/05/why_the_foleo_c.html

[RobMtl007]

Ok thanks for the price and when it will be available.


I just want to comment that it seems companies that make small form factor tablets are listening to us, the consumers, wanting small devices and priced under $500.00, with linux OS.

This is why the Nokia N800 is getting popular.
It falls in the Mobile Internet Device category, 4 inch display screen, priced well below $500.00, with Linux OS.
True it doesn't have the power of a Samsung Q1, nor a OQO Model 2, but it seems to do the job.

Within the next 3 months we will seeing more small form factor devices like the Foleo, maybe they will have more power and more ram memory.

BTW, the Foleo has a 10 inch screen, under $500.00

Regards Robert

[Karel Jansens]

I'm thinking Psion Series 7/NetBook. I'm thinking Newton eMate 300. I'm thinking Toshiba Libretto. I'm even thinking Psion MC400 (doesn't that take you back?).

Actually, I'm thinking lots of things, but "Wow! that Fooleo's innovative!" is prominently not among them. And many of the things I am thinking would not pass this forum's censor...

[Texrat]

Oh come on, Karel-- give it a shot! :D

[artkavanagh]

Well, I like it. Of course, we haven't actually seen one yet, so my judgment is based on assumptions that the keyboard will be as good as the one on my current notebook and that the screen will be as good as (but bigger than) that on the N800.

The N800 screen is superb but it's so darn small. Big doesn't really bother me. A device with a full-size keyboard is going to be a foot long, there's just no way around that. If you're going to have put the keyboard in, you might as well make the screen as big as possible too. The weight isn't too bad. When you take into account the fact that there isn't a hard disk to damage, I'd say this is light enough to be genuinely and easily portable.

I wouldn't hanker after a touchscreen but, in its absence, a trackpad would have been nice. Perhaps that would have made it harder to differentiate from a regular notebook.

[artkavanagh]

I'm thinking Psion Series 7/NetBook. I'm thinking Newton eMate 300. I'm thinking Toshiba Libretto. I'm even thinking Psion MC400 (doesn't that take you back?).

I'm not familiar with all of those but I don't think any of them had a really FULL-sized keyboard.

[mobiledivide]

Really not too much to see here folks move along. The device is too big and too underpowered for what it does. If money is not an object (which it seems it isn't for a lot of business users) then you would just get a OQO model 2 and that sexy dock. At the other end of the spectrum there is the N800 with a bluetooth keyboard. This in between space is simply bested by a ton of other $500-$700 Windows XP laptops.

[Dirk]

But at least Palm uses Opera 9, where Nokia is vague about when they will release an uptodate version of Opera.

[Karel Jansens]

I'm not familiar with all of those but I don't think any of them had a really FULL-sized keyboard.

O yes they had.

And if we're going to split follicles, the Fooleo doesn't have a full-sized (in whatever font) keyboard either: there's no dedicated numeric pad.

[tfinnan]

Here's a fun link.

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/070530/palm_insider_transactions.html?.v=1

The news is dated today. Anyone want to buy Palm stock?

[Texrat]

That is rarely a good sign.

[tfinnan]

I guess there's something to be said about confidence in what the release of a new product will do for your bottom line...I would be interested in a Folio at $200, but not much more. I do like that it is flash-based though.

Woot! has the Samsung Q1 for $649 in their Woot! Off today...not a big Windows fan, but that's only $50 than Palm wants for the Folio.

[timepilot84]

I was ready to order a nokia n800 but waited until this announcement... I have a very capable smartphone currently but decided that I wanted a larger display and more capable browser...

I've had a Nokia n800 for several months now, and the size makes it very useful in situations that would make using a laptop, even a small one, awkward. For instance, when you're on the throne. I'm only partially kidding...

The smaller form factor, and the ability to use most of the devices functions without a stylus make it much more useful to me than my Samsung Q1. The Q1 convinced me that Windows has no place on touch screen tablet. It'll need some major redesigning for the interface to be useful in that form factor.

I withhold judgement on the Folio. Palm has underwhelmed me in the past, and I've come to regret it, when confronted with the wisdom of their designs.

[Milhouse]

For instance, when you're on the throne. I'm only partially kidding...

Glad it's not only me then... :)

[bac522]

Glad it's not only me then... :)

Now I'm worried about the last two responses...where did they come from :p

[Milhouse]

You'll be glad to hear I very rarely publish my thoughts while paying a visit. :p

[barry99705]

I'd like to see the Clio come back. That's a really cool design, that just screams play with me.

[Mark S]

I'd like to see the Clio come back. That's a really cool design, that just screams play with me.

You are soooooo right! I called Vadem and emailed about this a million times. The Clio was essentially sold and seems dead. Bummer because an updated Clio would be the best device (and much better than the Fooleo). Imagine it with bluetooth, wifi and running Windows Mobile (sorry but we need real business applications like word, excel, real email with push, pim, and citrix).

[barry99705]

You are soooooo right! I called Vadem and emailed about this a million times. The Clio was essentially sold and seems dead. Bummer because an updated Clio would be the best device (and much better than the Fooleo). Imagine it with bluetooth, wifi and running Windows Mobile (sorry but we need real business applications like word, excel, real email with push, pim, and citrix).

It's now called the Clio NXT. The web site has it as coming soon, for the last 5 years.... On the other hand you can pick up one on ebay for $99. Problem is, they were kinda under powered then.

[POost]

For writing on the go, until now I haven't found any tool I like better than a Dana Alphasmart (http://www.alphasmart.com/products/dana-w_In.html). It's instant-on and instant-off, it has a grown up keyboard, and it doesn't get hot on my lap. For me, that weighs up against the small dark monochrome screen and having to convert texts to the .pdb-format (I like working in Wordsmith).
This Foleo could be the improved writing tool Alphasmart hasn't made yet. Maybe I'll have to pick one up fast before they flop.

[SeRi@lDiE]

I'd like to see the Clio come back. That's a really cool design, that just screams play with me.

I second that!!!
God I love the Clio back then!

[SeRi@lDiE]

For writing on the go, until now I haven't found any tool I like better than a Dana Alphasmart (http://www.alphasmart.com/products/dana-w_In.html). It's instant-on and instant-off, it has a grown up keyboard, and it doesn't get hot on my lap. For me, that weighs up against the small dark monochrome screen and having to convert texts to the .pdb-format (I like working in Wordsmith).
This Foleo could be the improved writing tool Alphasmart hasn't made yet. Maybe I'll have to pick one up fast before they flop.

I take you are a writer?!? :D
That looks like a monster to me only a writer would love something like that ;)
JJ

[artkavanagh]

This Foleo could be the improved writing tool Alphasmart hasn't made yet.

And with a decent web browser to boot. What could be better?

Maybe I'll have to pick one up fast before they flop.

Exactly what I was thinking.

[artkavanagh]

O yes they had.

I've just checked and o no they hadn't. When it comes to keyboards, there's no such thing as "nearly" full-sized. The trouble is, having watched the video of Jeff Hawkins demoing the Foleo, I'm beginning to suspect that it doesn't have a full-sized keyboard either. That would be a huge disappointment, if true.

If you can't touch-type on the blasted thing, then those legions of idiots pontificating about how lame and pointless the Foleo is might not be so idiotic after all.

On the face of it, you'd have thought that a portable (i.e. light) device with, as a minimum,

(a) wireless connectivity

(b) no hard disk but adequate flash memory

(c) a modern, CSS-compliant browser, with Flash and Java support

(d) a real, solid, touch-typable, non-folding keyboard, and

(e) a good quality screen of a size appropriate to that keyboard

would be such a no brainer that at least half-a-dozen models would be readily available. I'm still looking.

[aflegg]

I'd never touch a Palm device running Palm OS again (after the disastrously unstable and no-good-for-Internet Clio I had), however if this is even remotely as hackable as an N800 then this could be a perfect device for me.

Small, light, instant-on, good connectivity (including "proper" USB) and VGA out. It's a small ARM laptop, a proper Psion netBook running Linux, without the matching price tag (always Psion's largest problem).

I've never really found a Bluetooth keyboard to be that satisfactory (not least because of the blanking issue (https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1498)) and so something with a larger, higher pixel count screen than the N800, running Linux with a built-in keyboard could be right up my street.

Here's hoping they do a Nokia-style developer's programme. Or they fail abysmally and I can pick one up cheaply a few months after launch ;-)

[fanoush]

What I miss very much is touchscreen and rotating display so you could close it with display up and have big PDA^H^H^HInternet Tablet. No touchscreen is so '90.

[zorg]

If you can't touch-type on the blasted thing, then those legions of idiots pontificating about how lame and pointless the Foleo is might not be so idiotic after all

With an 18mm pitch, I'm pretty sure you will be able to touch type on the Foleo. And I am pretty sure that the legions of idiots are idiotic, succeed or fail.

Most of the complaints center around the similarities between this device and many of ten-fifteen years ago. I owned one of those devices and have often thought that the design would have a place today with a few very small changes. You can't say that about most devices---there are very few I can imagine still using today. That's because most computers are just a slapped-together collection of the latest components and fads.

This one looks different. It uses only the cheapest most mainstream parts. I conjecture that there won't be reliability problems as a result. The price is palatable as a result. I bet it will last through two or three phones with iPod-sized hdds and that will be enough at this price point.

Jeff hawkins was reputedly left alone with no reality check to design this. The legion of idiots would never have let it be produced. The legion of idiots wants the latest embedded-camera, blue-led, swiveling-touch-screen collection of fashionable junk that won't last. I'm so glad no committee got to thumbs-down on this product, just as I'm glad that the legion of idiots who want a cell phone in the N800 were ignored.

Of course, this could still flop. It MUST work with Blackberries or it will be DOA for enterprise sales. It will need a redesigned Treo, one with much greater storage capabilities and greater reliability. It may need to work with the iPhone to survive in consumer sales. It needs a developer community with the instant-on mindset of the Palm developer community, but willing to switch platforms.

But I would not count the Foleo out because of the legions of idiots. By the way, I don't count a lot of people on this thread as among the legions of idiots. I think people like Fanoush are really just looking for something different. I'm thinking of people who post to really mainstream blogs and may not use many of these devices and may not have an engineering background to understand the tradeoffs. I'm thinking of people who want something miniature, inexpensive, and reliable, with all the latest innovations in a technically, economically impossible package.

[aflegg]

True, but at least it's got a nipple rather than a touchpad. A personal preference.

Of course, rotatable display and touchscreen would add to the costs.

Some interesting stuff at:

http://discuss.treocentral.com/showthread.php?p=1271617

They'll need their own ssvb to get mplayer going well :-)

[Nik1]

If it were 4.11 inch PDA similar to the n800, but with SUSE Linux I would buy it. This device is gonna have a tough time finding a market otherwise.

[artkavanagh]

With an 18mm pitch, I'm pretty sure you will be able to touch type on the Foleo.

Thanks for that information. I hadn't seen anything definite about the size of the keys.

By the way, I don't count a lot of people on this thread as among the legions of idiots.

I was thinking specifically about a lot of the comments I've seen on Engadget and similar sites. Most of the users of this forum are self-evidently not idiots (even if a few of them would like a SIM card in the N800;) ).

[zorg]

I got the 18mm pitch number from palminfocenter, at this url: http://www.palminfocenter.com/news/9437/notes-from-the-foleo-webcast/

It is the only place I have seen that number. There are also dimensions listed there, 10.55" x 6.67" x 0.94". It's the only source I've seen for a number of stats that should be easy for anyone who's had a hands-on with the device.