No room for Personal Attacks

[Reggie]

I am just reminding everyone that there is no room for personal attacks here in Internet Tablet Talk.

Despite my previous warning (http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=48513#post48513), it seems like some members still have a hard time controlling themselves. I have previously mentioned (http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=50616&postcount=13) that there will be new rules that will be implemented soon. So, for the mean time, while the new rules are not yet in place, I will start banning members who are reported for personal attacks. Bans will last for a week.

To control using new accounts to post, for each new account that a banned member registers, a month will be added to the ban.

Let us keep order in the forums. To the community, please don't hesitate to report members who are attacking other members.

Thank you.

[SeRi@lDiE]

Enough said.

Thank You.

[Karel Jansens]

What? All this because some people can't be bothered to learn how "ignore" works?

I'm in half a mind to say "byebye" to this forum... :mad:

[Texrat]

I look at it this way: over 7000 members and a tiny handful of troublemakers (4 of which I strongly suspect are actually one person). Given that, there really isn't a huge problem here and it's not like Reggie will likely be banning people right and left.

Thing is, this is a more professional forum than, say, a gaming or wrestling forum and while having fun or even poking each other is fine IMO (as Karel and I have :D) outright harassment is over the line. I'm using Ignore on the troublemaker accounts but for it to be effective against a committed miscreant it has to be used by more than 1 or 2 posters. In addition, if the troublemaker spams then you wind up with a jackass filling his ignored posts (which of course show up as headers) in between the good stuff, adding unnecessarily to the page count.

I think Reggie is striking a good balance here, and I highly doubt there will be any of the "admin abuse" I've seen elsewhere.

So don't say "byebye" Karel. What other curmudgeon will I spar with? :p

[euchreprof]

I look at it this way: over 7000 members and a tiny handful of troublemakers (4 of which I strongly suspect are actually one person). Given that, there really isn't a huge problem here and it's not like Reggie will likely be banning people right and left.

Thing is, this is a more professional forum than, say, a gaming or wrestling forum and while having fun or even poking each other is fine IMO (as Karel and I have :D) outright harassment is over the line. I'm using Ignore on the troublemaker accounts but for it to be effective against a committed miscreant it has to be used by more than 1 or 2 posters. In addition, if the troublemaker spams then you wind up with a jackass filling his ignored posts (which of course show up as headers) in between the good stuff, adding unnecessarily to the page count.

I think Reggie is striking a good balance here, and I highly doubt there will be any of the "admin abuse" I've seen elsewhere.

So don't say "byebye" Karel. What other curmudgeon will I spar with? :p


Ok i guarantee this is over for me cuz I AINT GETTING BANNED... but TEXRAT just called me like 4-5 names above... and he has done this to many others... and since Reggie let him get away with it TIME AND TIME AGAIN in the past... so on my other thread when he called me names I JUST DECIDED HE WASN'T GOING TO DO THIS EXACT BEHAVIOR TO ME and so I played with him... BUT I AM DONE PLAYING WITH HIM CUZ IT'S GONNA GET ME BANNED but doesn't he have to stop or does he get a free pass?

[Karel Jansens]

I look at it this way: over 7000 members and a tiny handful of troublemakers (4 of which I strongly suspect are actually one person). Given that, there really isn't a huge problem here and it's not like Reggie will likely be banning people right and left.

Thing is, this is a more professional forum than, say, a gaming or wrestling forum and while having fun or even poking each other is fine IMO (as Karel and I have :D) outright harassment is over the line. I'm using Ignore on the troublemaker accounts but for it to be effective against a committed miscreant it has to be used by more than 1 or 2 posters. In addition, if the troublemaker spams then you wind up with a jackass filling his ignored posts (which of course show up as headers) in between the good stuff, adding unnecessarily to the page count.

I think Reggie is striking a good balance here, and I highly doubt there will be any of the "admin abuse" I've seen elsewhere.

So don't say "byebye" Karel. What other curmudgeon will I spar with? :p

I am a believer in freedom of speech, and especially in the freedom of expression of opinions that I detest (what else is freedom of speech good for anyway?).

Furthermore, it is only words. They cannot hurt anyone beyond one's feelings, so what's the point of going all Spanish Inquisition on them? If a troll and its detractors want to start a flaming war, I say let them have their puerile fun; it's no skin of my back. Actually, it's usually a good sign for a forum if the local troll population starts to pay attention: it means the forum has achieved escape velocity and is now cruising happily above the event horizon (Prof. Hawking would probably have me crucified for mixing metaphores like that).

Finally, when I "spar" on this forum, it's usually to get a point across or, sometimes, to apply a bit of (poor) socratic irony: on occasion things need to be said with brutal exaggeration to get noticed. I'm not saying I'm good at it, mind, just that I try...

[Milhouse]

Ok i guarantee this is over for me cuz I AINT GETTING BANNED... but TEXRAT just called me like 4-5 names above... and he has done this to many others... and since Reggie let him get away with it TIME AND TIME AGAIN in the past... so on my other thread when he called me names I JUST DECIDED HE WASN'T GOING TO DO THIS EXACT BEHAVIOR TO ME and so I played with him... BUT I AM DONE PLAYING WITH HIM CUZ IT'S GONNA GET ME BANNED but doesn't he have to stop or does he get a free pass?

There is no personal attack in Texrats post, he doesn't name you or otherwise identify you. Of course we all know who he is referring to - it doesn't take a genius to work that out - but as he hasn't instigated a direct personal attack he hasn't broken any forum rules so you'll just have to live with it, leave or accept a ban.

You, on the other hand, have identified and criticised a named individual in your post. Do you see how Texrat got away with it? Perhaps you should be a little more creative with your posts. By the way, did you read the title of this thread?

[euchreprof]

There is no personal attack in Texrats post, he doesn't name you or otherwise identify you. Of course we all know who he is referring to - it doesn't take a genius to work that out - but as he hasn't instigated a direct personal attack he hasn't broken any forum rules so you'll just have to live with it, leave or accept a ban.

You, on the other hand, have identified and criticised a named individual in your post. Do you see how Texrat got away with it? Perhaps you should be a little more creative with your posts. By the way, did you read the title of this thread?


No personal attack in Texrat's post? I hope you don't speak for Reggie but if this is the mentality I am going to have to live by to stay on here so be it. I am done attacking and responding to THIS thread now and I will only post "good" stuff from now on and i will just accept the shots directed at me from here on in cuz I don;t want to beat a dead horse any longer... I know I made my point and now I need to make another silent point.

[Milhouse]

Nobody wants to rag on you, we should all be able to get along and enjoy this place.

Making posts personal and bating people "for fun" is the fastest way to make yourself a target, so if you can avoid that in future you may not have to "accept the shots directed at me" because the shots aimed at you won't be there in the first place.

Oh, and only Reggie speaks for Reggie as far as I know!

:)

[YoDude]

Yeeeesh,
I concur Milhouse. As far as free speech goes one way to help protect it is to have consequences for its abuse.

I have seen on other forums where the admin enables the IP look-up icon for senior members...

A man can concentrate his mind wonderfully when he knows his IP addy is exposed...
(My apologies to Samuel Johnson whose quote about being "hanged in a fortnight" that I butchered was in reference to Socrates and The Euthyphro I believe.)

This can sometime lead to other abuses and for that a perma ban can be imposed.
The Romans had the right idea but in their forums one could look the other in the eye and usually knew where he lived.

[euchreprof]

Nobody wants to rag on you, we should all be able to get along and enjoy this place.

Making posts personal and bating people "for fun" is the fastest way to make yourself a target, so if you can avoid that in future you may not have to "accept the shots directed at me" because the shots aimed at you won't be there in the first place.

Oh, and only Reggie speaks for Reggie as far as I know!

:)


You did it to SAP. I did it to Texrat. Reggie is the boss and says NO MORE. Enough Said.

[Milhouse]

I hardly think any of my posts can be compared to the stuff you've been posting recently! But you're correct, nuff said in this thread.

:)

[euchreprof]

I hardly think any of my posts can be compared to the stuff you've been posting recently! But you're correct, nuff said in this thread.

:)


The only difference was u were the local favorite and I was the outsider but we both did the exact same thing.

[jpj]

I have seen on other forums where the admin enables the IP look-up icon for senior members...

A man can concentrate his mind wonderfully when he knows his IP addy is exposed...

Sounds nice at first glance, but if you consider that the most vociferous trolls tend to achieve Senior Member status through sheer volume, such a strategy could easily backfire...

[Texrat]

I am a believer in freedom of speech, and especially in the freedom of expression of opinions that I detest (what else is freedom of speech good for anyway?).

Furthermore, it is only words. They cannot hurt anyone beyond one's feelings, so what's the point of going all Spanish Inquisition on them? If a troll and its detractors want to start a flaming war, I say let them have their puerile fun; it's no skin of my back. Actually, it's usually a good sign for a forum if the local troll population starts to pay attention: it means the forum has achieved escape velocity and is now cruising happily above the event horizon (Prof. Hawking would probably have me crucified for mixing metaphores like that).

Finally, when I "spar" on this forum, it's usually to get a point across or, sometimes, to apply a bit of (poor) socratic irony: on occasion things need to be said with brutal exaggeration to get noticed. I'm not saying I'm good at it, mind, just that I try...

I am an ardent believer in free speech as well. If you read my political posts in other fora it would be obvious.

But there are some things to keep in mind. One, free speech is protected in public venues, not private. Therefore anyone running a private podium is well within his rights to establish limits. Along those lines, reasonable retraint does exist in the public environ, ie, decorum against "shouting fire in a crowded theater". That said, I am reluctant to accept even the smallest encroachments and am angered to say the least at the current attacks on speech here in the US under the guise of "political (in)correctness".

My last point is that while it is true we are talking about "just words" at a simplistic level, in a realistic sense such a statement actually contradicts your stance on free speech. If they are "just words" then they are powerless and protecting the right to utter them meaningless. The reality is of course that words do possess power and a reasonable person executes them with responsibility. The reality is also that only an objective robot could completely avoid being moved by incendiary verbiage.

Again, I believe Reggie is striking a rational balance against irrational forces. You, on the other hand, seem to want to rationalize the irrational. It's a fun exercise in detached ivory towers but useless here in the trenches. When a malcontent chooses to inflict his cancer unfettered upon a forum, all the philosophical rationalizing in the world won't cure or kill that effort. That's why we have civil laws, because man can be an uncivil beast in their absence. The evidence to that here is isolated, but evident nonetheless. Let's keep it isolated.

/soapbox

[euchreprof]

It's over man.

[geneven]

I find it disturbing when one party to an unnecessary squabble uses his power to shut down the other side. That is what I think is happening in this case.

[euchreprof]

I find it disturbing when one party to an unnecessary squabble uses his power to shut down the other side. That is what I think is happening in this case.

i know what u r saying but i reggie is handling this 90% correct and i commend him for that. anyone but reggie and i am gone long ago cuz here is his side... he runNing #1 message forum for nokia n800 and here comes a nobody on here challenging a 1200 message poster plus many like him as he is a popular guy AND works for nokia. not many pEople would have been this tolerant. u got anotheR guy karl threatening to leave with 1200 posts under his belt. ok but i do haVe a side to this too. texrat is stilL calling me names although he only did a few times in his last thread so maybe he is gonna stop now and let it go. that's the 10% regGie hasn't got yet. he needs to ask teXrat to let this go and perhaps put me on ignore... but if texrat doesn'T let this go for the good of this website then i would ban him. also if karl wants to Threaten to leave i would let it go at first but if he really made a serious stance on this i would let him go before allowing him to push me in a corner like that.

[Karel Jansens]

One, free speech is protected in public venues, not private.

Agreed. Hence why you may have noticed that I didn't demand that the right of free speech should be invoked on this forum. The owner does what he wants, but so do I.

[convulted]

I cannot add too much to what has already been said above. However, I believe it is important to realise that quoting free speech (a right that I defend fervently) obscures what to me is the real issue here. 90% of the members of ITT see this place as (i) a general HOW-TO and troubleshooting site for the tablets; (ii) as an exposé on Nokia's IT operations. The other 10%, I believe, look to the forums as a political arena of sorts -- what Nokia should(n't) do, where Palm went wrong with the Foleo, ...
Both ends of the spectrum are essential. There needs to be some regulation, however. New users (and Google) do not have a default ignore list. If people do a search on "nokia n800 forums" and find only flame wars, what are they going to think? What is needed is that "golden middle", and that is what the rules should be aimed at. IMHO, that is what the new rules will help achieve.

</philosophise>

[frethop]

As a full-time reader, part-time contributor, in this forum, I have learned to respect many of you who have posted their thoughts and knowledge and opinions here. Since the days I started lusting after the 770, this forum has been a great source of information and understanding for me. Since I assume it is this way for others, I would ask for patience from all of you tempted to put the entire forum on your ignore list. Stay on a little longer.

In addition, consider this. Those who personally attack others do so for attention (sometimes out of spite or revenge, but mostly for attention). They want to be in the middle of the explosive kind of flame wars we have seen here of late. If we all truly ignore those who personally attack -- simply don't take the bait, swallow the urge to lecture, or realize you don't have to defend yourself -- they will go away. Or at least we can raise the signal-to-noise ratio.

Thanks to Reggie for working on order in the forum. This forum and its contributors are worth it.

-F

[geneven]

I am not willing to participate in a system in which my behavior is "scored". This seems childish to me. It has been stated that such a system will be implemented soon. When it is, my participation here will end.

[Texrat]

I find it disturbing when one party to an unnecessary squabble uses his power to shut down the other side. That is what I think is happening in this case.


You are seriously miscontruing the situation. Reggie is the one invoking power.

[Karel Jansens]

I am not willing to participate in a system in which my behavior is "scored". This seems childish to me. It has been stated that such a system will be implemented soon. When it is, my participation here will end.

I am personally thinking very hard about what I am to do. I hate nanny-organisations with a vengeance, but unfortunately am unable to escape most of them.

We'll see...

[Texrat]

I find the opposition to Reggie's proposal interesting. He didn't say he's going to clamp down with a totalitarian fist. He said personal attacks won't be tolerated.

I'm fine with that. There's no need for that sort of engagement. And I have to wonder how those complaining would feel if THEY were the target of some angry, obsessive poster. If Ignore alone sufficed, that would be great. But again: as long as the target is the only one using it, and the troublemaker is hyperactive, then Ignore doesn't work. And as another poster wisely pointed out, newcomers (and we're having a steady stream) don't have the troublemakers on ignore, and can be put off by the sort of crap the Skype thread endured.

And along those lines, I also find it interesting that I'm catching some crap for that debacle. Anyone who objectively examines that mess can easily see I was exercising restraint (confirmed to me by some PMs). Despite what's been said, I never started off by attacking the person responsible for this nonsense-- I simply expressed doubt over a date. And for that a flamewar ensues, one in which you'll kindly note was engaged in by numerous people responding to the troublemaker. If I'm going to be blamed for doubting a date, well, then we've got more to worry about than a few rules.

Some of you say you'll quit if Reggie enacts a little overdue decorum. How do you think *I* feel being the target of unwarranted hostility? Should I stick around for that???

Let's all be adults here. I'll definitely behave myself as long as I don't have to put up with any ridiculous bs that I don't think the complainers would like.

/rant

[docnesh]

Hello,

I am new here, and as such have refrained from saying anything... but this is getting a bit ridiculous. convoluted hit the nail on the head with his comment about new users and google searches pointing people to these forums...

2 weeks ago I started looking here because I was thinking about investing in an n800. It was this site and maemo.org that put me over the edge to buy one. Mainly because I said to myself, hey this is reminiscent of the early days of palm os, they have an intelligent community of users and developers who like this device and what nokia is trying to do in the market and who understand the benefits of open.... everyone seemed helpful and knowledgable...

Shortly after the flamewar started I will confess I found it very entertaining, but honestly this forum should be informative more than it is entertaining.

As for nanny rules and powers governing your free speech, we have this in society already, and frankly we need it here... just like there are laws against slander and libel and yelling "fire!" falsely in a crowded place, so must there be some degree of enforcement here in the forums or it ceases to function as it should.

The truely funny thing is these "rules" don't prevent flamewars, they just prevent "personal attacks" (as the title of this thread/announcement indicates.... this requires some degree of creativity and thoughtfulness to go into your replies, instead of attacking some one directly... attack what they are saying....

Anyway that was my 2 cents... I find this forum to be a valued resource and one I check on a daily basis.... I am not fearful of any new rules that go into effect because honestly the moderator/founder's postings on this subject seem very tempered and controled... this forum appears to be in good hands and hardly worth leaving over, or worth feeling persecuted over... I think everyone just needs to take a deep breath and relax :)

--Jeff

[Karel Jansens]

I find the opposition to Reggie's proposal interesting. He didn't say he's going to clamp down with a totalitarian fist. He said personal attacks won't be tolerated.

I'm fine with that. There's no need for that sort of engagement. And I have to wonder how those complaining would feel if THEY were the target of some angry, obsessive poster. If Ignore alone sufficed, that would be great. But again: as long as the target is the only one using it, and the troublemaker is hyperactive, then Ignore doesn't work. And as another poster wisely pointed out, newcomers (and we're having a steady stream) don't have the troublemakers on ignore, and can be put off by the sort of crap the Skype thread endured.

And along those lines, I also find it interesting that I'm catching some crap for that debacle. Anyone who objectively examines that mess can easily see I was exercising restraint (confirmed to me by some PMs). Despite what's been said, I never started off by attacking the person responsible for this nonsense-- I simply expressed doubt over a date. And for that a flamewar ensues, one in which you'll kindly note was engaged in by numerous people responding to the troublemaker. If I'm going to be blamed for doubting a date, well, then we've got more to worry about than a few rules.

Some of you say you'll quit if Reggie enacts a little overdue decorum. How do you think *I* feel being the target of unwarranted hostility? Should I stick around for that???

Let's all be adults here. I'll definitely behave myself as long as I don't have to put up with any ridiculous bs that I don't think the complainers would like.

/rant

On another forum I've received actual PM-ed death threats (not very effective ones, obviously, unless you happen to believe in typing from the grave). Granted, it's a political forum, but still... And even then I voted against moderation.

Mind you, I'm against murder (especially my own :cool:), but I also believe death threats can only be effective if the threatener has a voice capability of over 1,000 decibels.

And any newbee who can't distinguish a flamewar in progress has no business on the intarrwebs to begin with. Let it go forth and educate itself... :cool:

To reiterate: This is Reggie's forum, we're only guests here and he can do as he pleases. If I don't like it, I'll leave.

[Karel Jansens]

Hello,

I am new here, and as such have refrained from saying anything... but this is getting a bit ridiculous. convoluted hit the nail on the head with his comment about new users and google searches pointing people to these forums...

2 weeks ago I started looking here because I was thinking about investing in an n800. It was this site and maemo.org that put me over the edge to buy one. Mainly because I said to myself, hey this is reminiscent of the early days of palm os, they have an intelligent community of users and developers who like this device and what nokia is trying to do in the market and who understand the benefits of open.... everyone seemed helpful and knowledgable...

Shortly after the flamewar started I will confess I found it very entertaining, but honestly this forum should be informative more than it is entertaining.

As for nanny rules and powers governing your free speech, we have this in society already, and frankly we need it here... just like there are laws against slander and libel and yelling "fire!" falsely in a crowded place, so must there be some degree of enforcement here in the forums or it ceases to function as it should.

The truely funny thing is these "rules" don't prevent flamewars, they just prevent "personal attacks" (as the title of this thread/announcement indicates.... this requires some degree of creativity and thoughtfulness to go into your replies, instead of attacking some one directly... attack what they are saying....

Anyway that was my 2 cents... I find this forum to be a valued resource and one I check on a daily basis.... I am not fearful of any new rules that go into effect because honestly the moderator/founder's postings on this subject seem very tempered and controled... this forum appears to be in good hands and hardly worth leaving over, or worth feeling persecuted over... I think everyone just needs to take a deep breath and relax :)

--Jeff

It's just one freakin' thread in -- how many active discussions?

If the population of the forum insists on having nanny rules, it'll have nanny rules. But I will most likely no longer be here...

[YoDude]

As a full-time reader, part-time contributor, in this forum, I have learned to respect many of you who have posted their thoughts and knowledge and opinions here....

...If we all truly ignore those who personally attack -- simply don't take the bait, swallow the urge to lecture, or realize you don't have to defend yourself -- they will go away. Or at least we can raise the signal-to-noise ratio...


-F

Wiser words could not have been said...

All we really need to know about behaving in a forum we should have learned in the first week of grade school.

IMO the problems with the thread in question would have been avoided had one or both parties chosen not to respond to the other. Membership would have had a chance to respond to the topic at hand and consensus could have been formed by the forum on the validity of the statement.

Because of the back and forth between the two, valid opinions from others were either ignored or categorized by one or the other of the two as either for or against them personally.

It ain't personal... it's the freakin' internet! Most use a screen name, so justifying a response as defending ones honor is kind of ridiculous.

This thinking may have bled into other threads and the typical response by most members is to not post in order to not get involved in the childishness...


I know I posted in that thread to "feed the fire and it will burn out" but that was only after an off topic post war had erupted. By then it was just too dang entertaining. :)

It is also MHO that both of the parties in question should refrain from responding in this thread so that once again, the forum membership is free to form a consensus with out the implication of a personal, ulterior motive.

[Texrat]

Okay, I was going to drop it but apparently something else needs to be said after YoDude's post (with which I mostly agree):

1) we shouldn't have to walk on eggshells because one poster has a personal problem with another's input. By that I mean none of us should have to refrain from offering our reasoned opinions anywhere in the forum IMO. That entitles troublemakers to de facto control.

2) somehow a few have come to the absurd notion that there were 2 combatants in that thread. Check again. There was a thread-starter making an announcement, followed by a few expressing doubt-- then a hyperbolic reaction by the thread-starter to that doubt. After that, numerous members of the community universally took the thread-starter to task for his nonsense, which regardless of who posted was unreasonably directed at ONE person.

I'm sorry, but if we're going to belabor this at least get the facts straight.

Specifically:

It is also MHO that both of the parties in question should refrain from responding in this thread so that once again, the forum membership is free to form a consensus with out the implication of a personal, ulterior motive.

Censorship? and.. BOTH parties? Looks like a math error there. Count participants again, and re-evaluate one particpant's involvement, please. Thanks. :p

Second EDIT: seriously YoDude: there was no back and forth between 2 posters. There was back and forth between one poster (about the other) and several other posters. The other poster (me) mostly made some silly asides and refrained for the most part from engaging the one. Hell, I had him on Ignore!

[Milhouse]

It's just one freakin' thread in -- how many active discussions?

If the population of the forum insists on having nanny rules, it'll have nanny rules. But I will most likely no longer be here...

Correct, one thread where Texrat was the target of abuse - and direct abuse at that. Also don't forget the same thing happened with Sap also targeting Texrat (and me too for that matter!)

Irrespective of the rights and wrong of why the individuals found it necessary to target Texrat and myself, it's not right that such threads should run unchecked on this forum. At first the threads can be amusing but eventually they become tiresome and unnecessary.

Fortunately such threads are rare and the introduction of the new rules should make little difference to the day-to-day running of this place. Only when someone wants to pick a fight in cyberspace will it be necessary to bring a swift end in order to maintain the high quality discussion that is possible here.

EDIT: Added Karels quote as two other posts snuck in before I finished typing... :)

[Texrat]

^ wiser words were never spoken. Thanks for the sobering reality injection into a lot of misinformation.

[YoDude]

Okay, I was going to drop it but apparently something else needs to be said after YoDude's post (with which I mostly agree):

1) we shouldn't have to walk on eggshells because one poster has a personal problem with another's input. By that I mean none of us should have to refrain from offering our reasoned opinions anywhere in the forum IMO. That entitles troublemakers to de facto control.

2) somehow a few have come to the absurd notion that there were 2 combatants in that thread. Check again. There was a thread-starter making an announcement, followed by a few expressing doubt-- then a hyperbolic reaction by the thread-starter to that doubt. After that, numerous members of the community universally took the thread-starter to task for his nonsense, which regardless of who posted was unreasonably directed at ONE person.

I'm sorry, but if we're going to belabor this at least get the facts straight.

Specifically:



Censorship? and.. BOTH parties? Looks like a math error there. Count participants again, and re-evaluate one particpant's involvement, please. Thanks. :p

Second EDIT: seriously YoDude: there was no back and forth between 2 posters. There was back and forth between one poster (about the other) and several other posters. The other poster (me) mostly made some silly asides and refrained for the most part from engaging the one. Hell, I had him on Ignore!

Thanks for proving my point about not contributing to this thread.

I could take your post as your belief that MY OPINION is not based on fact or worse absurd. I can see how some could take this as a personal attack.

If your not part of the solution then maybe you're part of the problem.

Notice I avoid using declaratives in response to another's posts. :)

Edit: Same reason as Milhouse, above.

I also see from others edits how my math abilities are now in question. :)

[Texrat]

*sigh*... I see my relevant points were completely and summarily dismissed so you could "prove a point", YoDude.

So your position is I should not be allowed to participate in a discussion where falsehoods are spread about my participation here. Sweet. Ironic, too... and if you're going to stretch the "personal attack" definition that thin, you're in danger of hypocrisy in labeling me.

My definition of personal attack is the blatant, unwarranted type. But if you view what I said about absurd remarks as a personal attack, then I sincerely apologize because that was not the spirit in which it was intended. Ah, speaking of examples: THAT is how you distinguish a true personal attack from remarks intending far less harm: an apology and subsequent alteration in tone. Not too hard for adults to understand and master, I'd think.

[euchreprof]

If Ignore alone sufficed, that would be great. But again: as long as the target is the only one using it, and the troublemaker is hyperactive, then Ignore doesn't work./rant


Karl used the ignore button masterfully. Karl and I have not had 1 problem ever since.

[euchreprof]

Correct, one thread where Texrat was the target of abuse - and direct abuse at that. Also don't forget the same thing happened with Sap also targeting Texrat (and me too for that matter!))



http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6144

[euchreprof]

*sigh*... I see my relevant points were completely and summarily dismissed so you could "prove a point", YoDude.

So your position is I should not be allowed to participate in a discussion where falsehoods are spread about my participation here. Sweet. Ironic, too... and if you're going to stretch the "personal attack" definition that thin, you're in danger of hypocrisy in labeling me.

My definition of personal attack is the blatant, unwarranted type. But if you view what I said about absurd remarks as a personal attack, then I sincerely apologize because that was not the spirit in which it was intended. Ah, speaking of examples: THAT is how you distinguish a true personal attack from remarks intending far less harm: an apology and subsequent alteration in tone. Not too hard for adults to understand and master, I'd think.



Texrat I just might go back and post every single name u called me... I know it;s over 50 cuz I had to look them all up in the dictionary.

[euchreprof]

Thanks for proving my point about not contributing to this thread.

I could take your post as your belief that MY OPINION is not based on fact or worse absurd. I can see how some could take this as a personal attack.

If your not part of the solution then maybe you're part of the problem.

Notice I avoid using declaratives in response to another's posts. :)

Edit: Same reason as Milhouse, above.

I also see from others edits how my math abilities are now in question. :)



Just wait until you are called a couple of 12 letter words.

[geneven]

Could you point out the line in which anyone suggested you should "not be allowed to participate" in any discussion? I missed it.

[euchreprof]

Could you point out the line in which anyone suggested you should "not be allowed to participate" in any discussion? I missed it.


Oh nooooooow you are all seeing what i decided i had enough of and went to work on.

[euchreprof]

Texrat listen... go on vacation and come back and I swear to God if u don;t give me 1 snide remark i will never even post in any threads u ever make nor post directly to you PERIOD. But u gotta just stop involving me in your posts... this is getting out of hand and u will feel better after your vacation. Plus no need for nanny Reggie cuz if Texrat just gets this 1 thing i Swear To God i will never do this again on here... I LOVE THIS PLACE!

[frethop]

oh oh. The baiting is starting. Take a deep breath. Ignore. Move on.

-F

[euchreprof]

oh oh. The baiting is starting. Take a deep breath. Ignore. Move on.

-F

How old are you? 80?

[Texrat]

Could you point out the line in which anyone suggested you should "not be allowed to participate" in any discussion? I missed it.

Yeah:

It is also MHO that both of the parties in question should refrain from responding in this thread so that once again, the forum membership is free to form a consensus with out the implication of a personal, ulterior motive.

Granted, it wasn't worded as I put it and I apologize to YoDude and the forum for my own hyperbole. Use of the word "allowed" was a mistake on my part, sorry. It was how I felt, not what he said.

And of course he's entitled to his opinion... aren't we all? Again, I'd just prefer a little intellectual honesty in the dialog, ie, recognition that the debacle in question was not limited to a "both parties" sort of involvement and a realistic assessment of what occurred. Yeah, yeah, I realize I violated my own request. Very embarrassing. Won't be an issue from this point forward.

/done, adios

[Milhouse]

http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6144

Your point being what, exactly?

You do realise that Adam was/is Sapporobaby? Anyone using a multi-handle to bolster their argument or to hurl more abuse at other members deserves no sympathy. The fact that you write in an uncannily similar style to Sapporobaby/Adam is also not lost on some of us, though that is likely due to coincidence.

[mobiledivide]

I post on tons of forums and one of them has "nanny rules" in place. The mods are harsh and will ban users on whim if they step out of line. Examples of how heavily moderated things are : mods lock topics if they have another preexisiting thread, there is no personal attacks or insults this results in week long bans, linking to invalid information or sources that have been shown to be not credible results in locked threads. I've even seen mods ban other mods! Its a little excessive but what results is a forum of which 80% of the information on the front page is actually relevant.

Now granted said forum has thousands of users and at any given time 1000 people are active on it, but there is nothing wrong with having an effective informational forum. I always push this idea but whats wrong with having a "rants and raves" forum here where users can go wild with the personal insults knowing what they are going to get into. And furthermore if someone really has a problem with something in a thread they can protest by starting a flame war or insulting a poster and then feel the consequence of their actions by enduring a week long ban but at least they get their opinion out there.

Anyway thank you to Reggie for making this an issue so users at least know what kind of behavior is expected here.

[rheve]

How old are you? 80?

I thought the title of this topic was "No room for Personal Attacks". Looks like a failure.

[YoDude]

I thought the title of this topic was "No room for Personal Attacks". Looks like a failure.

^ LoL...

And mobiledivide would that forum happen to start with a Ho and end with a Fo? :D

I have been a moderator there for over 4 years now. It is the Grand Daddy of enthusiasts forums with members ranging from 10 year olds with their first cell phone to Network Engineers and Company CEO's so the rules need a strict interpretation in order for the front page of the forum to be useful for all.
Our flaming thread in one of the forums is the longest running, most active thread on Howard's.

It was set up for just this sort of thing. Once another thread goes off topic with one of these squabbles the offenders are reminded by other members to take it there to sort out their "feelings" :rolleyes:

The rules against profanity and slander still apply and for us yahoos looking for entertainment it sometimes beats TV, LoL. In other words, it gives the squabblers a place to voice their frustrations with each other without bogging down an otherwise useful thread.

[jpj]

YoDude and mobiledivide are making a lot of sense here...

[fpp]

C'mon Karel & Tex, haven't you reread the good ole Usenet Troll FAQ I posted a while ago during the Sapporo epic ?

If you two go sulking aside for your own philosophical reasons, this dive won't be the same, and the trolls win, which is the usual (and pursued) result. Think it through.

The saddest part of this local mini-drama, IMHO, is that this thread, and the 6/11 one that created it, have been the main activity here for the past few days, and even entertaining to some, for lack of much else of interest. And *that* is not the fault of any one of us, or Reggies', or even the trolls'. It's the same empty echoes on the maemo mailing lists, and it's because not much of anything has been happening in Nokia land since the soothing promises of some months ago. Meanwhile, the rest of the world is awash with projects spanning the gap between UMPCs and the Nokia tablets : Palm Foleo, Fujitsu clamshell, VIA NanoBook, Asus Eee...

Maybe we should try to keep our crosshairs on the real problems : the big wave is coming, and we're stuck dead in the water.

[euchreprof]

^ LoL...

And mobiledivide would that forum happen to start with a Ho and end with a Fo? :D

I have been a moderator there for over 4 years now. It is the Grand Daddy of enthusiasts forums with members ranging from 10 year olds with their first cell phone to Network Engineers and Company CEO's so the rules need a strict interpretation in order for the front page of the forum to be useful for all.
Our flaming thread in one of the forums is the longest running, most active thread on Howard's.

It was set up for just this sort of thing. Once another thread goes off topic with one of these squabbles the offenders are reminded by other members to take it there to sort out their "feelings" :rolleyes:

The rules against profanity and slander still apply and for us yahoos looking for entertainment it sometimes beats TV, LoL. In other words, it gives the squabblers a place to voice their frustrations with each other without bogging down an otherwise useful thread.


Howardforums is where i got all those "Pwned" pics.

[euchreprof]

I thought the title of this topic was "No room for Personal Attacks". Looks like a failure.


I was completely joking with the "How old are you? 80?" because of all the talk about "How old are you? 12?" earlier in the week.

[euchreprof]

C'mon Karel & Tex, haven't you reread the good ole Usenet Troll FAQ I posted a while ago during the Sapporo epic ?

If you two go sulking aside for your own philosophical reasons, this dive won't be the same, and the trolls win, which is the usual (and pursued) result. Think it through.

The saddest part of this local mini-drama, IMHO, is that this thread, and the 6/11 one that created it, have been the main activity here for the past few days, and even entertaining to some, for lack of much else of interest. And *that* is not the fault of any one of us, or Reggies', or even the trolls'. It's the same empty echoes on the maemo mailing lists, and it's because not much of anything has been happening in Nokia land since the soothing promises of some months ago. Meanwhile, the rest of the world is awash with projects spanning the gap between UMPCs and the Nokia tablets : Palm Foleo, Fujitsu clamshell, VIA NanoBook, Asus Eee...

Maybe we should try to keep our crosshairs on the real problems : the big wave is coming, and we're stuck dead in the water.



Click on my name and read my messages... I posted 80+ mature messages before I HAD ENOUGH IN THE WAY I WAS BEING SPOKEN TOO. Not only was I directly being talked to negatively... Texrat would go on many other threads and spread this crap around... THIS WAS BEFORE I DID ANYTHING.

[YoDude]

Howardforums is where i got all those "Pwned" pics.

Now that's good to know. :)

I see you're from Canada, eh?

[euchreprof]

Now that's good to know. :)

I see you're from Canada, eh?


Yup Toronto, ON... I been on Howard forums for over 2 years... posted a lot... never had 1 problem ever. What's your name on there? And which forum r u a modeator of? I might have to pay u a visit and get u fired.

PS: JOKING!!! u guys rule with an iron fist!

[YoDude]

Yup Toronto, ON... I been on Howard forums for over 2 years... posted a lot... never had 1 problem ever. What's your name on there? And which forum r u a modeator of? I might have to pay u a visit and get u fired.

PS: JOKING!!! u guys rule with an iron fist!

No problem dude... but do you see how easy it is for someone to get info on anybody if they talk long enough?

This is what I meant in the other thread. Maybe it's best to tone down the rhetoric for now. No matter how entertaining it may be for some.

BTW, we don't rule with an iron fist we just have the manpower and intra-communication systems in place. The rules are pretty much the same in every publicly viewed, private forum.

In addition to common sense rules, the big players are now imposing their own set of standards on Admins and owners. The paltry amount that others may pay for hits is dependent on maintaining rank in search engines....
Some will drop a site in a heartbeat if they feel it is not fostering a "Family Safe" environment.

So let's give Reggie a break, eh? It ain't easy or cheap to provide a place where we all can share our enthusiasm. Finding a common dialog among people from all walks of life and through out the world is pretty freakin' amazing when you think about it. :)

[CitizenK]

I have been a regular visitor to this site since I puchased my N800 earlier this year. I rarely post, but I have enjoyed reading the numerous and helpful posts conrtibuted by the members of the forum. Thus, if I get banned for saying this, it's really my loss.

euchreprof: Take a couple days off, seriously. It's clear you have plenty of free time, love attention, and have found a way to get it.

Yes, I realize you feel attacked for trying to bring information to the forum. Yes, it's clear you have strong opinions regarding other forum members. I'm sure you have a whole list of complaints, but consider it all "point taken."

The dignified, mature, intelligent thing to do at this point would be to step back and take a few deep breaths. Take a break, go outside and take a stroll. Take the wife to dinner. Relax.

I'm not saying you are right or wrong. I'm only suggesting you give yourself and everyone else here a short break. A chance to think things over. Nothing more needs to be said until the Magic Date, and then you can resume your vigorous campaign.

Trust me, nobody will forget about you if you go offline far a few days.
But they will thank you for it when you come back.

And to take my own advice, I'll log off and return in a week or so. Life is too short to do anything as *****ic as argue on the internet...

[TitaniumRat]

everyone should take a break. the drama surrounding the incident is about 1000 times worse than the actual incident.

[euchreprof]

No problem dude... but do you see how easy it is for someone to get info on anybody if they talk long enough?


10 years ago on a euchre website where I had 6 top scores I got a death threat from another guy in Toronto... I gave him my exact address and welcomed him to come get some anytime. I didn't care if he did come and kill me. I have no fear and no shame in the game... just don't pat yourself on the back too hard for finding out I live in Toronto though. You want my address too? lol

[Sadavyk]

come on guys! can we just get back to the n800,linux,iphone, you know the reason this site was meant for?? okay maybe not the i-phone :)

[YoDude]

10 years ago on a euchre website where I had 6 top scores I got a death threat from another guy in Toronto... I gave him my exact address and welcomed him to come get some anytime. I didn't care if he did come and kill me. I have no fear and no shame in the game... just don't pat yourself on the back too hard for finding out I live in Toronto though. You want my address too? lol


No David that won't be necessary...

I was just saying. Give it a break.

[WhatsTheScience]

Are there any types of attacks that we can do? I realize from the title of the post that personal attacks are out, but how about general attacks...?

got the n800 in march, found this forum the next day... tried to ask and answer some questions for a few weeks, but i found "insert general attack here." Anyhow, this is the first time i'm back and I find this 7 page long thread about nothing.

Well atleast you folks are using your tablets, huh?

[euchreprof]

No David that won't be necessary...

I was just saying. Give it a break.



David? My name is James. Opps u tricked me again.

[flareup]

this guy is ruining this forum.

I like the open self-regulating approach, but I for one wold be more than happy to see him banned as it is patently obvious that he's the same person as sapporobaby etc and is just making this place into a laughing stock.

[sondjata]

"Well atleast you folks are using your tablets, huh"

ROFL

[sapporobaby]

this guy is ruining this forum.

I like the open self-regulating approach, but I for one wold be more than happy to see him banned as it is patently obvious that he's the same person as sapporobaby etc and is just making this place into a laughing stock.

It is unfounded accusations such as yours that are making this place into a laughing stock. As Reggie to post the IP addresses and see who is whom. For the most part I have stayed above this fray and read info where I needed it because I intend to purchase an IT when a better product than the N800 comes out, however, I have seen my name thrown about by the so-called "in the know" crowd. I consider this a personal attack and will point your very post to Reggie and see if he takes action against you. You can be the first test case. How is that for an accusation?

[rheve]

Bla bla bla bla bla bla
What a bunch of useless crap.
Ridiculous, pathetic.