iPhone's here... Say Goodbye to Nokia

[Ceklund]

The iPhone is the new HUGE. It's not even believable what they've done with this thing. I will get to the iPhone in a moment, but first let me say my peace regarding the N800 and my growing disgust.

I've been a loyal Nokia supporter since long BEFORE the N770 even came out, and when it did I was amazed. I was flabbergasted. I loved it. In many ways, the 770 was better than the overrated N800 which followed it.

For one, the touchscreen on the 770 actually worked, so when you typed on the screen, it registered. My N800 only registers 50% of my taps... resulting in no end of frustration on a daily basis. And I can NEVER get the "back" button to register.... so I can't erase errors or mistakes when typing. What a piece of junk the N800 has become. I've been growing angrier as I wait for each new firmware revision hoping they will fix the touchscreen. No such luck. It gets worse the longer I wait. Last night I tried to use handwriting to get around the N800 not capturing my clicks... but when I put the stylus to the screen the drawing showed up 2 inches to the left in slow motion. I went immediately and re-calibrated the screen with the Control Panel option of the same name. It did not work. I rebooted. That did not work. Its horribly flawed. For months my N800 has been giving me so much grief just being able to get information INTO the darned thing that I went back to using my N770 because it actually works. I still love my 770. It is still useable and functional.

Why did Nokia bother to change the 770? The case design for the 770 was great, and not having a case for the N800 sucks. And they went with substandard touchscreens for the N800, when the 770 was superior. Why downgrade to CRUD like they've done? The touchscreen clearly does not work on the N800 and it's a dead piece of junk to me now. Everything boils down to the user experience... the machine may have more CPU and memory, but what do those things matter when my experience SUCKS?

Programs freeze on the N800, apps won't load (or take 5-10 minutes to load in some cases, and often NEVER load!) I reflash and nothing changes, still all the problems. I've been thinking of giving up on the N800.

And then, out of the blue, I saw the iPhone commercial last night and my mouth started watering. So I went to the Apple website and started watching the videos, and my jaw hit the floor. The iPhone is so far ahead of anything else that it's not even funny. It's like a 2-year leap forward over anything else that isn't already an iPhone 'knock off'. The touchscreen is fluid and brilliant, the controls are amazing, it's like something out of the future, or from Star Trek. This is every techno-geezers dream come true. This thing is so cool, even women will love it. It appears made to cater to both women and men equally.

The interface is amazing, from the transitions, to how it's layed out, and how it functions in concept. It combines everything together at long last.... video player, photo viewer, phone, iPod, PDA, GPS and mapping, it does it all, and with so much polish you just can't help but begin drooling as the videos unfold before your eyes. And it performs its every aspect at top quality. This is not a jack of all trades master of none deal-io, this is jack of all trades and yes, we've mastered them all, too. Have my cake and eat it too? Are you crazy? Apparently not, the iPhone is real. There are some drawbacks, however....

3 Things Not in iPhone's Favor:

1) It might not have the N800's screen resolution... it's res is 320 x 480, still good enough for TV... but the screen size is smaller, which could end up making the dot pitch equal overall. Not sure about this point yet.

2) No Maemo portability. No new programs or user-created additions like the N800 can do. Have to wait for good ole Steve to hand down the next program it can run in Apple's questionable updating prodecures.

3) Apple. If they've locked this thing up like they have everything else, it will probably end up pissing off a lot of us who buy it. Or they'll somehow shoot themselves in the foot over this new product like they always do.

Either way, I think my N800 is about to begin collecting dust, or I will sell it, or something... And I'm breaking my Sprint phone contract, too. Because... sure enough....

I'm going iPhone.

Later.

[chilko]

there is no gps, and no support to third party applications, unless they are AJAX, but this sux. so iphone is not even smartphone.

http://osnews.com/story.php/18073/Editorial-The-No-SDK-Cheat/

[Karel Jansens]

Later.

Bye now...

[heavyt]

Apple is becoming the Toyota in the computer/hardware business "..it just works". Now, have you sent your N800 for repairs or is that to big of a risk knowing Nokia's track record when it comes to customer service?

[phi]

If you're gonna let the n800 collect dust, you might as well roll the dice and send it in for repair. sounds like the touchscreen is defective.

[rr0123]

Screen resolution on the iPhone bites. Maybe the 2nd gen iPhone will increase it. But I have become accustomed to the full 800x480 and can't see myself changing.

[phi]

i'm not sold on a lot of things about the iPhone, but the biggest thing is the zooming in and out to surf a web page.

Technically, that is the web watered down. I don't have to zoom in and out when I'm surfing the web anywhere else, why start?

[Bernard]

Your N800 is defective. I have both the 770 and the N800, and the touchscreen work equally well, no problems.

I had similar problems with my 770 a year back: touchscreen wasn't responding on certain parts and the thing crashed a lot (seemingly random) . I send it in for repair and 20 days later I got the 770 back. repaired with a new touchscreen, and working perfectly now!

I really hope the I-phone functions as well as they let people believe in the commercial. But I'm skeptical. The device is REALLY small! It has a smaller screen than the Inet tablets and until I see it myself, I really doubt key input will work well on such a small screen.

I'm also very curious but it will be some time before I can buy it (I live in Europe)

[nyleridedog]

even if it's crud, it will sell by the bucket load and will have a much bigger audience than the 770/n800.

we are a niche and we are loyal!

quoting ceklund "This thing is so cool, even women will love it"

that got me thinking, does anyones girlfriends actually like the n800? cos mine does'nt give it a second glance!

cheers

[YoDude]

I'm thinkin' the iPhone "web experience" is going to be a disappointment for some. It is possible that a lot of the effects and transitions seen in the video's will be optimized on Apples own servers knowing apples track record.

However, for many this will be the first phone used for internet surfing and if apple serves up plenty of content the majority will be happy.

Geeks were rippin' MP3's years before the iPOD. Along comes iTunes and the masses are happy (and paying for it too).

The same goes for AOL back in the day... Geeks were sockin' along just fine, but their neighbors weren't "online" until they got AOL...
AOL rode that wave for 2 or 3 years before members slowly realized they were not on the "net" at all and were paying a premium for something that was actually free + cost of connection.

For the majority who have never used the internet on their cell phone or were put off from when carriers would nickle and dime them per KB used, the iPhone will be all they will want.

For the rest of us here is a humorous take on the subject... >> CLICK ME << (http://www.operamini.com/beta/video/)

[mwiktowy]

The iPhone is the new HUGE. It's not even believable what they've done with this thing.
<snip>
I'm going iPhone.

Later.

Guh ... It disturbs me how people are sucked in by marketing. You (and many others) are ready to trade your first-born for an iPhone and you have not even tried it.

On top of that, anyone who pays the expensive price for one of these will never admit that they suck in any aspect if they do because then they'd look incredibly stupid for shelling out so much money for a non-customizable shiny brick.

Sometimes I hate how the world works.

[YoDude]

Guh ... It disturbs me how people are sucked in by marketing. You (and many others) are ready to trade your first-born for an iPhone and you have not even tried it.

On top of that, anyone who pays the expensive price for one of these will never admit that they suck in any aspect if they do because then they'd look incredibly stupid for shelling out so much money for a non-customizable shiny brick.

Sometimes I hate how the world works.

And in the end... All you have is a phone that...

a. Is locked to one carrier.

b. Does nothing more than any other phone (but flashier).

c. Will be as stale as last years Razor, next year.

[thomasdawes]

For a gadget freak and an elitist like myself, I fashion having something that noone else around me has. Only bad thing is the gadget doesn't sell and the manufacturer stop supporting it... I digress...

The Iphone looks great and when I first saw it my initial reaction was to get it... but the marketing and the over exposure has calmed my nerves and i'm not that interested. YoDude is right.. when it becomes like last year's razor I will buy it. It will cost less, and be open to more carriers.

[earl00]

You should reconsider buying the iPhone -$500+- ... boy there are plenty wrong already with it. Quote: "the iPhone's rechargeable battery is sealed inside its case." ...." With the iPhone, it seems you may be tethered to a backup-battery accessory, which is far from ideal."

Who the hell wants to ship their phone off to get it replaced, and not have a phone while they wait.

There are so many capable smartphones in the market already that do more than the iPhone and with less of a dent in the bank, of course you get the dumb schmucks that buy any apple product just for its shiny looks and its fancy price tag. Use your brains people, plus you going to look like all the other dumb schmucks that will be walking around with this iPhone just like the razor - which was nothing great either.

Finally stop comparing the N800 with the iPhone. sorry, but damn you guys are dumb. The N800 IS NOT a smartphone however it compliments a phone well. Just like a PDA or UMPC, neither of which are phones. The reason I don't get a smartphone of any brand is because I don't like everything squished into one device and tiny screen, I prefer having my GPS/Web browsing on a separate device, sure its convenient to have everything in one, but take for instance this scenario out of the many: You're talking on the phone but want to look at GPS map and take notes on the web - sure you have speaker phone but what if its a private conversation.... and what if your friend is using your phone for a private conversation and you want to surf or setup GPS or anything. Think about that - do you really want every single thing in one.

Read this article.

http://www.forbes.com/home/wireless/2007/06/08/iphone-problems-apple-tech-wireless-cx_df_0611iphonemain.html

[wirelessaddict]

You simply cannot compare an "apple" to an orange. Both devices have a market, neither will "say good bye" anytime soon. We could go on and on for who knows how many forum pages about the Pro's and Con's.

[BlogrQ]

Still the N800 uses a platform which isn't mature. We can be a niche, but i'd prefer a device which really does what's promised. If it did, people from 'our' group wouldn't even look at an Iphone.

[rickh]

... people from 'our' group wouldn't even look at an Iphone.
Define "our" group. I own an N800 and a Blackberry, and can honestly say I've never considered running out and buying an iPhone. I don't see what it would give me that I don't already have.

I suppose people want a single device to do everything, but, realistically, battery life just isn't there yet for that.

R.
==

[jeep99]

Ceklund,

While I agree the N800 is not perfect, the iPhone isn't either. Let me point out 1 factor that doesn't seem to be touched on yet. Everything I've read says No 3G. I have AT+T with a 3G data plan and a SYNC (45-90Kb/s download). My phone is my primary internet connection. The iPhone on EDGE will get about 12-16Kb/s based upon my EDGE experiences. Try downloading music at that speed or surfing the net. Given that the iPhone is releasing the end of June, how long before gen2 is released with 3G? 6 months, a year? I'd be pretty pissed if I was first in line for an iPhone now and 3G was released and my iPhone became obsolete after a short time. Or do you want to have to find hot spots or wait till you get home to sync with your computer for the next year. While the iPhone has some very fine points and may be shaping the future of such devices, the data network it is connected to will really make or break its usefulness. Its like having a fine Italian sports car and trying to drive it on a dirt road. I have lots of complaints about the
N800 as well, poor software availability and no way to sync it at all at this time. Everything is a freaking hack or work arround or its just not possible.

I'm getting an HTC Advantage. Maybe it has winmobile 5 or 6, but at least there is software for it. No offense to the people releasing maemo apps, but it is taking too long to get the apps, real apps, that matter most to me. I'd rather pay for the software and know its available and works. I need to sync this thing with outlook and for now, I have nothing. I had high hopes for the
N800 when i got it but now mostly its used for the news reader and light internet surfing while in the bathroom. If nokia gave this thing the PIM capabilities of my old 6682 smartphone it would a different story.

Advantage here I come.

[barry99705]

And in the end... All you have is a phone that...

a. Is locked to one carrier.

b. Does nothing more than any other phone (but flashier).

c. Will be as stale as last years Razor, next year.

Hey I'm locked to one carrier, and it's not Att. :mad: I'll wait till the next version, though if someone were to give me one, I wouldn't turn it down. ;)

[skinny]

I agree with jeep99; no 3G (let alone 3.5G) is a big drawback when using the device to access the internet on the move. The N800 is only restricted by whatever phone you use as a modem.

Also, no physical keypad and no one-handed operation are big drawbacks for me. Dialing numbers or texting without tactile feed-back from the buttons isn't quick.

EDIT: Btw I meant "no physical keypad and no one-handed operation ON A PHONE"

[anidel]

Guh ... It disturbs me how people are sucked in by marketing. You (and many others) are ready to trade your first-born for an iPhone and you have not even tried it.

On top of that, anyone who pays the expensive price for one of these will never admit that they suck in any aspect if they do because then they'd look incredibly stupid for shelling out so much money for a non-customizable shiny brick.

Sometimes I hate how the world works.


I fully second you on that.
Nokia can show him several videos of the N800 with a fully working touchscreen and with fast responses from the UI (as of course no vendor will ever show the real speed or even the real device).
Moreover, did someone questioned about the iPhone battery ?
They all say it'll last long, but will the iPhone battery be USER removable ?
Or will it be like the iPod ?
I can stand it with the iPod: no juice in the battery, no music for me until I charge it... no big issue.
But an iPhone ? no juice.. no calls! This is a cellphone after all!

Someone knows ? I don't think so. Apple didn't say it.

[skinny]

http://www.theonion.com/content/infograph/apples_new_iphone

LoL!!!

[TA-t3]

Well, the OP's N800 is clearly defective, so the 'comparision' w.r.t. load times, screen etc. is moot. I'm sure the iphone is nice, for a phone. There are a couple of things though:
- Sealed battery compartment
- 320x480
Those are exactly what I moved away from when I went from Palm to N800.. in addition to the other goodies like 2xSD. But the clincher is the screen resolutions. They simply can't compare, I can't use my Palm for what I can use my N800 for. Anyway, I'm sure the iphone is fine if you use it as a phone, with the occasional movie or whatever. No good for web browsing, that's certain. Heck, 640x480 doesn't cut it either (read vga PDAs).

In any case, they can't be compared, more than you can compare, say, a motorcycle to a car. You can try, but it doesn't make sense.

[bac522]

If he wants to buy an iphone, let him buy the iphone. I know the country I live in they actually do allow freedom of choice!

[dunsun]

Hmm, you guys ... iphone contains lot of good new ideas. Nobody can say a word against it but it is only a phone ! I don't want a phone. I want a tablet.

For me n800 sucks too - stupid buttons, bad touchscreen. I am going to sell it ... the time is coming for INTEL MID toy. Just awaiting it with real big expectations. It will be a x86 platform and you know what it means (very easy porting of all linux and java stuff). The power consumption is not a real problem for me (you can always buy 1 or 2 extended batteries).

[Nik1]

The iPhone is the new HUGE. It's not even believable what they've done with this thing. I will get to the iPhone in a moment, but first let me say my peace regarding the N800 and my growing disgust.


Later.

Say goodbye to 3rd party software, your going to be stuck with what ever Apple gives you. The n800 and the iPhone are on different playing fields. One is a PDA and the other a really hard to use cell phone (not smartphone). The n800 will always be better at surfing the internet. This is like comparing apples and oranges, iPhone has some better features over the n800 and the n800 over the iPhone. Why not compare something else, for example the N95/E90 to the iPhone.

[jeep99]

N800 is not a very good choice for a Personal Digital Assistant. Poor contact and scheduling support and no synchronization. It displays pdf files well, plays music OK, plays video clips OK, displays pictures very well and surfs the net well. Honestly the best use I've found is as a mini porn machine as you can not get hijacked by spyware. I guess it would be good at GPS as well, but I haven't got a GPS antenna yet so I can't comment on that. I love my N800 for what it can do and hate it for what it can't do. Unfortunately it "can't do" more than "it can do".

[zerojay]

N800 is not a very good choice for a Personal Digital Assistant.

You're right, because it's NOT a PDA. It's like complaining that your hamburger doesn't taste like steak.

[Ceklund]

Hey guys,

Thanks for all of your replies. First of all, I agree with many of you who scolded me regarding several negative aspects of the device, and yes, I am now considering more patience as I decide whether to go iPhone or not.

Chief among my concerns are:

1) No 3G. I tried EDGE before, standing in the Cingular store, and it downloaded like some 56K modem of 20 years ago. EDGE sucks, period. I would hate using it on the internet sans WiFi, I know that much. So that's strike one.

#1's Realization
Come to think of it, I just realized WHY there is no 3G support, and I'll be damned! Apple really IS smart after all! Think about it! You buy the iPhone today with EDGE (which sucks big time), and in 6 months they release the iPhone 2.0 with 3G support, and because you hate your EDGE you are FORCED to upgrade! Apple gets the double whammy! Oh.... we'd be fools to buy this now, knowing that! Companies are growing smarter about how they build products, purposefully leaving flaws and major issues with them so that they can appear to "fix" them in the next version and thereby ensure most users will upgrade.

The 770 was that way: the N800 promised so much more but you can only use the videochat feature by getting your friends to install Nokia's videochat software. None of my friends would bother, so I still to this day have never experienced a video chat on this thing, although it was primary reason for me to upgrade. Wasted, for no reason. And Maemo software development is so far behind the N800's release that the N900 will be out long before the Maemo software catches up to the N800.... My feeling is that I'm going to start skipping upgrades. Jump from the 770 to the N900 and skip the N800, that sort of thing.... because it's all useless to upgrade BEHIND the software development. It's pointless and futile. I'm done upgrading to every new machine in the line I currently use.

2) There is no way that Apple can make the claim that this is "the full internet" or the "non-watered down Internet" when they can't even display the Internet in 640 x 800 ! It already IS watered down simply by requiring you to zoom in and out! And it can't play FLASH, the way they get YouTube to work is by paying YouTube to undergo a massive overhaul of their whole site by converting it to H.263 ! What a lame "fix" for a machine that claims to have an Internet which "is not watered down!" Can it read PDF files? Can it download files?

3) Why, when they have the technology to add a 30G hard drive like they have in their Video iPod models, do they settle for a lame 4/8 gig drives? I will tell you why... see point #1's realization: when they release the iPhone 2.0 in 6-10 months, it will probably have 30 or 60 gig drives! Another reason to "have" to upgrade. Plus all of the widgets aren't yet ready for the iPhone, so if you wait a year to get the iPhone, several things will happen: a) iPhone 2.0 will come out. b) the prices will come down. c) iPhone 2.0 will probably include 3G and a larger hard drive. d) iPhone 2.0 will probably include a GPS system to patch into Google Maps or the like. And e) it will have more software available to use by then.

4) the iPhone will actually turn out to be a great boon to us N800 users. Nokia now realizes that competitors are closing in on their "Full Internet" idea and that those competitors are even making some improvements such as how iPhone uses Google Maps. It's truly marvelous how the iPhone uses Google Maps. If they were smart, they would not even need a GPS. They would ask you "Click on the map where you are currently." And the "Click on the map where you want to go." And then it would draw a route for you and then ask you to click the screen to tell the Routing software that you have advanced to the next direction, and the iPhone could tell you which turn to make next. You would then click to advance the directions. No need for a GPS software at all. All Internet based, without a GPS. Anyone could do it... Gnuite could do this with Maemo Mapper, too. Point where you are, point where you want to go, generate route, and wait for the user to tell the software when they have done the first step, and Maemo Mapper could tell you where to go next. Without a GPS! Easy.

But I got away from my point. The iPhone encourages competition between Nokia and Apple on the Internet functionality. We could begin to see several N800 updates coming down the pipes with new functionality, and new polish, to combat the iPhone's new "cool" attitude and design qualities. The N800, at long last, could begin to see the updates it needs to grow, like Skype support, or videochat usibility for any and all videochat clients like Yahoo and Google chat, or others. It could see "voice" activation features... since it does have a microphone and a CPU... all they would have to do is program it.

If the Nokia does NOT try to compete, then it may begin to die. It would be a shame, since they were the first to pioneer the "Full Internet" concept, and it does the Internet very well when it works correctly.

(I thank those of you who mentioned that I may have a defective touchscreen, I just got it back from repair two months ago because it went to whitescreen of death. It came back and worked fine for 1 month, and then it went buggy. I'm not sure they know what they are doing there in the Repair center to send back a more crappy item than the one they took in.)

Anyway, thanks for your time. I appreciate all of the advice and comments. I believe I will hold off for the time being, and see how other people handle this thing. See their gripes and complaints, and try to find someone who has one so I can see it work in person.

Take care.

[paulh]

Think about it! You buy the iPhone today with EDGE (which sucks big time), and in 6 months they release the iPhone 2.0 with 3G support, and because you hate your EDGE you are FORCED to
upgrade!

But what are the prospects of upgrading when you're 6 months into a 2 year contract?


There is no way that Apple can make the claim that this is "the full internet" or the "non-watered down Internet" when they can't even display the Internet in 640 x 800 ! It already IS watered down simply by requiring you to zoom in and out!

I don't think zooming is that much of an issue if the web page is ultimately the same. After all, the 770 and 800 support zooming, it's just a pity it is a little sluggish (at least on the 770).

[sondjata]

I think the iPhone will have 3G support but it won't be activated at launch. I think an firmware update will activate it when ATT is ready for it to happen.

[sapporobaby]

I think the iPhone will have 3G support but it won't be activated at launch. I think an firmware update will activate it when ATT is ready for it to happen.

EDGE is not 3G. Different technologies. It depends on the implementation, so a firmware upgrade is not likely to give you 3G.

Insert: Whether EDGE is 2G or 3G depends on implementation. While Class 3 and below EDGE devices clearly are not 3G, class 4 and above devices perform at a higher bandwidth than other technologies conventionally considered as 3G (such as 1xRTT). Because of the variability, EDGE is generally classified as 2.75G network technology.

[sondjata]

What I'm saying is that it's likely the technologically needed parts are in the iPhone and are probably disabled. Apple has done this before. Firmware update and suddenly your device can do things it couldn't (wouldn't) do before. I can use my iPod as an example.

[earl00]

firmware doesn't install a piece of "hardware" that isn't there to begin with. its like saying my machine has bluetooth, but wait I bet you they'll make a firmware update to make it be wifi also. - its stupid.

[tfinnan]

Earl, you make a valid point. However, I can recall my N800 didn't have an FM radio when I bought it in January...

[jeep99]

You're right, because it's NOT a PDA. It's like complaining that your hamburger doesn't taste like steak.

Hey, if it looks like a duck... All thats needed for the N800 is for GPE to be able to be sync'd and refined a bit. I'm not a programmer and don't know the first thing about how to do it. I just want to use it. It's not like Nokia has never done it.

By the way, $400.00 for this thing is not hamburger. I'm not asking to do solid modeling and rendering on it, just to easily have my contact info, to do's and calendar to be on both my laptop and N800. All I'm asking for is onions, pickles and a bun.

[sondjata]

I didn't say that firmware installs hardware. I'm not an idiot. If you read the post you'd see that what I said was that apple has a habit of hobbling hardware and then "activating" it with a firmware update. You know...software that activates hardware.

I'm beginnning to understand what sets Texrat off.

[jschon]

Archos 605 coming out this summer.WiFi capable and can download movies etc

Anyone familiar with it?

[sapporobaby]

I didn't say that firmware installs hardware. I'm not an idiot. If you read the post you'd see that what I said was that apple has a habit of hobbling hardware and then "activating" it with a firmware update. You know...software that activates hardware.

I'm beginnning to understand what sets Texrat off.

There is no FCC approval for a 3G radio is there? Second, as it is being released in the US, there is no need for 3G. 3G is more than needed in Europe and the iPhone would be a waste without it. HSDPA is on the way, with the US also lagging in this. EDGE is just right for the US.

[k.o.s.]

iPhone is going to suck and to make matters worse there service is truly garbage in my area.(im really not going to buy it):D

[sapporobaby]

iPhone is going to suck and to make matters worse there service is truly garbage in my area.(im really not going to buy it):D

And this is based on your expert experience? You mind backing this up with some empirical data?

The problems with service in the US in general has to do with an immaturity factor. Apple will be remiss to launch an EDGE phone in Europe. They know it would not fly but as there are not many 3G networks in the US when compared to Europe and the rest of the world. It's not Apple's fault that there are no real high speed data networks in the US

[Milhouse]

Not looking good for the iPhone if this is anything like accurate - from engadget (http://www.engadget.com/2007/06/23/new-details-about-the-iphone/)...


Remember the winning Engadget commercial, "The Long Arm of Steve Jobs"? We posted it after the break, but finding someone who's spent some serious time with a pre-launch iPhone and getting them to talk is basically a lot like that. Still, we managed to smuggle out some freshly leaked details from a very trusted inside source who's been fooling around with a unit. Here's what they had to say:

The keyboard was simply described as "disappointing". Keyboarding with two thumbs often registers multiple key presses (two or three at a time) resulting in a lot of mistakes. The best way to type is with a single finger (as shown in most of Apple's demos), but two thumbs is supposedly very difficult. After trying it for a number of days our source gave up using their thumbs.
The text auto-correction only works well for simple words, but doesn't work for proper names. We can only assume this bit will get better with time as Apple fills out its predictive text dictionary.
"It won't replace a BlackBerry. It's not good for text input. It's just not a business product."
The touchscreen was said to, in general, require somewhat hard presses to register input, and needs some getting used to.
In addition to its dock, the iPhone comes packaged with a polishing cloth (the thing's supposedly a fingerprint magnet, no surprise) and the usual smallish power adapter.
The Bluetooth headset will debut in the $120 range, and will come with its own dock for charging both the phone and the headset. The headset will feature a miniature magnetic charging interface á la MagSafe.

Click on for more impressions on the headset, browser, YouTube, and more.


The Bluetooth headset has a hidden LED and is supposedly a very small and elegant device. Sound quality is said to be "typical". There is no clip; like many headsets you're expected to just let it hang out of your ear, as previously shown.
The browser "worked well" but page load speeds on EDGE were just as slow as expected. It sounds like 3G users will have a tough run with this.
Users must scroll through the address book (or use the alphabet-drag on the side) -- one cannot bring up the keyboard and type in a name, as many of us are used to.
Shocker: YouTube over EDGE didn't work well at all, and will basically necessitate use of WiFi.

Ok, that's all we've got for now. At this point we're just really looking forward to putting the spurs to this thing -- Apple is hyping this product like nothing we've ever seen before, and we're ready to bring every detail to light. In the mean time, here's that commercial again.

Summary: A dodgey phonebook and it's difficult to type SMS/text or emails...

Could it be that the iPhone looks wonderful, sounds great, has a ground breaking UI but is in fact a complete PITA to use as an actual phone?

[sapporobaby]

Hmmmmm......

N800:

1. Handwriting recognition = Useless
2. Camera = Useless
3. Current OS = Useless (debatable)
4. Phone = Oppssss..... doesn't have one
5. Wifi = Not bad
6. Keyboard = Tip, tip, tip, tip ( darn defective touchscreen)

The hits just keep on coming. Hopefully Nokia sees the error (N800) of its ways and designs a product that is usable right out of the box.

[blee]

The OP has some very good points... I did months of reading on the N800 before I bought it but after I bought it I found it to be a huge disappointment. It's just not meant for the average consumer, I'm not a linux hacker by any means so I managed to figure out how to install new apps but... I shouldn't have to rely on other people for basic applications. If this device is going to sell itself as a cool multi media chat device than is should do that out of the box well. Right now as it stands... The address book SUCKS it can't import Vcard version 3, photo viewer sucks can't slide show or organize photos essentially it's the same as filemanager in windows 3.1 or windows explorer. The chat program is limited to only google talk which is still in beta, I have yet to video conference with anyone beause I can't find anyone with an N800.

The browser can play non flash video files in the browser... and EVERY program feels like it has a different UI that you have to learn.

I think Nokia was onto something it had it's time to be the best at what it did with the N800/700 and blew it.

Gone are the days where you can't just sell someone a piece of hardware and ask them to write the software. Everyone expects a complete package Syncing is a must!!!!

[Karel Jansens]

Hmmmmm......

N800:

1. Handwriting recognition = Useless
2. Camera = Useless
3. Current OS = Useless (debatable)
4. Phone = Oppssss..... doesn't have one
5. Wifi = Not bad
6. Keyboard = Tip, tip, tip, tip ( darn defective touchscreen)

The hits just keep on coming. Hopefully Nokia sees the error (N800) of its ways and designs a product that is usable right out of the box.

1. The HWR isn't useless (I can print faster than I can pen-tap on the keyboard), there's just a lot of room for improvement. The "HWR" that came standard on my P910 -- Jot -- was pretty useless too, but installing Decuma Alphabetic made a world of difference.

2. Likewise, the camera isn't useless, but more a solution in search of a problem. I believe the application idea I proposed elsewhere (a photo-notepad) could be very useful.

3. The OS is great (after all, Debian is the OS God uses!), but the user interface is flawed. I believe the same will go for the iPhone, as Apple has long ago sacked the only people it had who even knew how to spell usor intarrface.

4. The N800 doesn't need to be a phone.

5. The WiFi on the N800 is by far the best I've ever seen in a portable device.

6. The big keyboard works rather well. Unfortunately I'm one of those people who need tactile feedback, which is why I alternate between HWR and a BT keyboard (with the exception of the Xterm, which doesn't "do" HWR very well).

I see the N800 as a sort of Swiss Army pocket knife: Out of the box it doesn't do a lot of things very well; and a new user does need to read the manual to learn what each sharp implement does (not to mention that he can really cut himself if he doesn't); but in the end you'll be able to do a lot of things that people without a Swiss knife can't do, or can't even imagine are possible.

[blee]

The OP has some very good points... I did months of reading on the N800 before I bought it but after I bought it I found it to be a huge disappointment. It's just not meant for the average consumer, I'm not a linux hacker by any means so I managed to figure out how to install new apps but... I shouldn't have to rely on other people for basic applications. If this device is going to sell itself as a cool multi media chat device than is should do that out of the box well. Right now as it stands... The address book SUCKS it can't import Vcard version 3, photo viewer sucks can't slide show or organize photos essentially it's the same as filemanager in windows 3.1 or windows explorer. The chat program is limited to only google talk which is still in beta, I have yet to video conference with anyone beause I can't find anyone with an N800.

The browser can play non flash video files in the browser... and EVERY program feels like it has a different UI that you have to learn.

I think Nokia was onto something it had it's time to be the best at what it did with the N800/700 and blew it.

Gone are the days where you can't just sell someone a piece of hardware and ask them to write the software. Everyone expects a complete package Syncing is a must!!!!

[Ceklund]

I have yet to video conference with anyone beause I can't find anyone with an N800.

I'm in the same boat, dude. I have a lot of friends but no one thinks much of my device and won't bother to install the necessary app or do this videochat with me so I can find out what the videochat looks like. I upgraded the device for the videochat and the 4-gig SD RAM capabilities, but haven't used the videochat YET.

Tell you what... why don't you send me chat invitation for a one-time quick video chat so we can both check this thing out....

I'm going to send you a PM with the details.

Later.

[argh]

I rushed out to buy the 770 back in the day. It served me well for a while-- a reasonable bridge between my Blackberry and my laptop. I enjoyed being able to get apps for it, although the primary applications that I used tended to be built-in. I had high hopes of the word processor, the ability to SSH, all of these cool little things.

The first realization is that these extras weren't really what Nokia had planned on. (Why do you have to go through all the hoops for root access?!) The device was somewhat functional out of the box, able to handle some basic functionality (that didn't justify the price of the unit).

The iPhone has a chance at being much better-- based on the attention to details, and a careful selection of features. The screen resolution is a shame, but I'm realistic. Size is more important for a mass-market device. Any higher resolution wouldn't do anything to improve the device for the average user.

The thing that really scares me about the iPhone is if thumb typing doesn't work well. I really need to replace my Blackberry in the next few months. I really hope Apple is able to pull this off.

...And, I really hope it helps to jump start Nokia, Motorola, Samsung, and the others to develop better products.

[iball]

Apple doomed themselves when they selected AT&T.
I live in the largest county in North Carolina and AT&T GSM coverage there is spotty at best. As long as you're alongside a major highway/road you're fine.
At least until you walk into your house and it goes down to 1 or 2 bars.
Just today at a family reunion a friend of mine remarked he was thinking about getting an iPhone when it launched. I told him to forget it since there was ZERO coverage within miles of his house where the reunion was.
He said "damn, guess I'm not getting one."
Apple should have hounded the crap out of AT&T to grow out their networks more.
I've even tried contacting AT&T to see if they want to slap a tower in a "dead zone" on our property towards the south but to no avail.
Only last week did they finally get around to changing the network name from "Cingular" to "AT&T" here in NC.
Pathetic.

[Bernard]

Hmmmmm......

N800:

1. Handwriting recognition = Useless
2. Camera = Useless
3. Current OS = Useless (debatable)
4. Phone = Oppssss..... doesn't have one
5. Wifi = Not bad
6. Keyboard = Tip, tip, tip, tip ( darn defective touchscreen)

The hits just keep on coming. Hopefully Nokia sees the error (N800) of its ways and designs a product that is usable right out of the box.

I don't understand: if your N800 is defective (like you say: a problem with your touchscreen ) why don't you get it fixed? It's really easy, just send it in for repair and nokia will fix your n800. You can't be out of warrenty because the device is only available for like 6 months.

If your n800 is broken no wonder you have a negative impression of the device. Surely you can't compare a defective N800 to a not yet released apple product?

The touchscreen on the N800 works well in my opinion. And text entry using the
thumbkeyboard is a good way of user input. Early reports on the iphone virtual
keyboard are a bit negative. That doesn't suprise me much because the iphone
keybpad is just as small as the keybboard on the n800 using a stylus. I tried that using
my fingers and it sucks.

Also the webbrowser on the n800 seems to be more compatible because of the flash
support that the iphone is reported to be missing (at least at launch).
I love the internettablets because of the high resolution screen and the good
webbrowser. The pdf viewer is also very nice. Reading pdf files will suck on the iphone because of the smaller low resolution screen.
The iphone is an ipod, that's it main thing, they just added some phone and pda functions.

The n800 is a webbrowsing tablet. And is slowly becoming a real internettablet (with im, voip, flash,mail,media player getting better )

[zerojay]

1. Handwriting recognition = Useless


Never used it much, seemed to work well enough after teaching it my handwriting though, but I have horrible handwriting anyways so I tend to stay away from recognition.


2. Camera = Useless


Well, it was integrated specifically for video chat and because you're going to be relatively close to the camera, there's not really a need for a really good camera for that. (Yes, I use videochat all the time and no, you don't need two N800s for it.) I use it sometimes to take pictures as well, but the quality isn't very good for that. I would like to see better, but I'm glad it's there. Far from useless to me.


3. Current OS = Useless (debatable)


Absolutely not useless.


4. Phone = Oppssss..... doesn't have one


Could have fooled me. I've been using Gizmo on the N800 as my full time phone for months.


5. Wifi = Not bad


I've yet to see better on any other piece of commercial equipment.


6. Keyboard = Tip, tip, tip, tip ( darn defective touchscreen)


Send it in and get it fixed instead of whining about it then. My touchscreen works just fine (and with heavy chat use too).


The hits just keep on coming. Hopefully Nokia sees the error (N800) of its ways and designs a product that is usable right out of the box.

Plenty usable for me. I didn't expect it to be a full PC with the absolute best software and PIM. I didn't expect it to replace a business phone like a Blackberry. I just wanted internet wherever I am and it gives me that and so much more.

[Irwin J. Finster]

even if it's crud, it will sell by the bucket load and
that got me thinking, does anyones girlfriends actually like the n800? cos mine does'nt give it a second glance!


Well, my wife who knows nill about computers loves it, she steals it all the time to surfe the web in the kitchen or the garden. When I can't find my 800 I know where to look :D

[zerojay]

Well, my wife who knows nill about computers loves it, she steals it all the time to surfe the web in the kitchen or the garden. When I can't find my 800 I know where to look :D

My wife is the type of person that hates spending much money, especially on expensive tech gadgets, but she comes around quick. When I bought the 22 inch widescreen LCD monitor I'm using, I thought she was going to kill me.

"YOU SPENT ALL THAT MONEY ON -"
*turns on screen*
"...oooh, that's nice."

She was the same way with the N800. She screamed at me for buying it but within about 30 seconds of trying it for the first time, she loved it and was trying to find excuses to use it.

"I don't know where we are... give me the tablet."
"We're down the street from our house! We can't be lost!"
"Just give it!"

[Frankowitz]

that got me thinking, does anyones girlfriends actually like the n800? cos mine does'nt give it a second glance!


Mine doesn't either. She can't be bothered: "Were's the laptop?"

[Drewvt]

Mine doesn't either. She can't be bothered: "Were's the laptop?"

Point. Explained the 770 to my sister, she doesn't even touch it when it's lying unused on the table in standby mode.

What's more, she also owns a spiffy Macbook that she only ever uses to write and to surf and neglects otherwise. Maybe it's just hardwired into women to be indifferent?

[earl00]

Hmmmmm......

N800:

1. Handwriting recognition = Useless
2. Camera = Useless
3. Current OS = Useless (debatable)
4. Phone = Oppssss..... doesn't have one
5. Wifi = Not bad
6. Keyboard = Tip, tip, tip, tip ( darn defective touchscreen)

The hits just keep on coming. Hopefully Nokia sees the error (N800) of its ways and designs a product that is usable right out of the box.

go buy your iphone - i really couldn't care less if you weren't happy with the n800, plenty of people here who are happy with all the disadvantages and pros that come with it. return or sell your n800 and stop complaining. There are plenty of people who would love to have your device. Ungrateful. Why don't you make some kid happy in Rwanda and send it there. Just make sure to load ScummVM first.

[sapporobaby]

go buy your iphone - i really couldn't care less if you weren't happy with the n800, plenty of people here who are happy with all the disadvantages and pros that come with it. return or sell your n800 and stop complaining. There are plenty of people who would love to have your device. Ungrateful. Why don't you make some kid happy in Rwanda and send it there. Just make sure to load ScummVM first.

Wow, you must really love your N800. I hope you two have a happy life. At no point in this thread did I say I would buy the iPhone. However I did point out its advantages as I saw them. As to the happy people here, great for them. Hopefully Nokia will design a better device, and if so, I will be the first in line to buy one. Who are you to call someone ungrateful because I don't happen to believe a particular device is worth the time and effort required to get a usable (my opinion) experience. Do you realize how nutty you sound?

As for sending it to Rwanda? I would if I wanted to torture someone. Are we through with this yet? By the way, I did not start this thread. I just commented in it, so aim your misguided rage and rants toward the OP.

[sapporobaby]

1. The HWR isn't useless (I can print faster than I can pen-tap on the keyboard), there's just a lot of room for improvement. The "HWR" that came standard on my P910 -- Jot -- was pretty useless too, but installing Decuma Alphabetic made a world of difference.

2. Likewise, the camera isn't useless, but more a solution in search of a problem. I believe the application idea I proposed elsewhere (a photo-notepad) could be very useful.

3. The OS is great (after all, Debian is the OS God uses!), but the user interface is flawed. I believe the same will go for the iPhone, as Apple has long ago sacked the only people it had who even knew how to spell usor intarrface.

4. The N800 doesn't need to be a phone.

5. The WiFi on the N800 is by far the best I've ever seen in a portable device.

6. The big keyboard works rather well. Unfortunately I'm one of those people who need tactile feedback, which is why I alternate between HWR and a BT keyboard (with the exception of the Xterm, which doesn't "do" HWR very well).

I see the N800 as a sort of Swiss Army pocket knife: Out of the box it doesn't do a lot of things very well; and a new user does need to read the manual to learn what each sharp implement does (not to mention that he can really cut himself if he doesn't); but in the end you'll be able to do a lot of things that people without a Swiss knife can't do, or can't even imagine are possible.

Hey Karel,

Thanks for the great response. I do love your posts. After reading and re-reading your post I realized that you hit some good points which I know will lead me to the next version of the IT when it comes out. I like the IT concept but for me, and in my opinion, the current N800 is not a consumer device but I am sure the next version will be. Nokia does sometimes learn from its customers.

[Bernard]

As for sending it to Rwanda? I would if I wanted to torture someone.

Why don't you send it back to Nokia for repair? Judging from your post your N800 is clearly defective. (touchscreen should be working perfectly) . Maybe a correctly functioning N800 would make you change your mind about the device.

[sapporobaby]

Why don't you send it back to Nokia for repair? Judging from your post your N800 is clearly defective. (touchscreen should be working perfectly) . Maybe a correctly functioning N800 would make you change your mind about the device.

Thanks Bernard. My actual first evaluation of the N800 was for a customer. The US military. They are looking into different devices with different applications, ease of use, robustness, durability, applications, etc.... In its current incarnation the N800 is not ready for this. The ability to sync contacts and have calendaring info is crucial for military applications. Without these basics the N800 is a non-starter. As for the other issues, touch screen, I did not personally have this but have read about many that did have it. Bad batch maybe. I did get the reboot cycle of death, and the crash and burn quite often. In its current state I could not recommend the N800.

[Karel Jansens]

Thanks Bernard. My actual first evaluation of the N800 was for a customer. The US military. They are looking into different devices with different applications, ease of use, robustness, durability, applications, etc.... In its current incarnation the N800 is not ready for this. The ability to sync contacts and have calendaring info is crucial for military applications. Without these basics the N800 is a non-starter. As for the other issues, touch screen, I did not personally have this but have read about many that did have it. Bad batch maybe. I did get the reboot cycle of death, and the crash and burn quite often. In its current state I could not recommend the N800.

If it was for the military, I'd have thought it would make more sense to look at it from a primarily hardware point of view. I can't imagine the soldier boys relying on regular Internet for their communications.

Since the N800 can essentially run any flavour of Linux interface on top of the built in stuff (see the KDE miracle), it'd be wiser for them to set it up to use some kind of sooper-dooper intranet only the brass knows about, in which case most of your points of criticism are moot. Even the camera could be used as an emergency "look-over-Grunt's-shoulder" assistent.

Then again, before the military would be interested, a heck of a lot of ruggedizing would have to happen to the N800, which I don't think is feasible with the current model (ironically, the underdog 770 form factor was much more forthcoming in this respect).

As an aside: I've had my N800 since february and I have had exactly none (zero, 0) of the issues reported in this forum. I have flashed it twice sofar without any hardship (granted, always from an Ubuntu desktop, running in WmWare in Windows XP) and I have been known to install version 0.1 software on it from quite unreliable sources. It just won't crash.

To say that my N800 is more stable than my 770 would be akin to stating that the Canadian Shield is geologically slightly more stable than the Mid-Atlantic Ridge.

[Karel Jansens]

Hey Karel,

Thanks for the great response. I do love your posts. After reading and re-reading your post I realized that you hit some good points which I know will lead me to the next version of the IT when it comes out. I like the IT concept but for me, and in my opinion, the current N800 is not a consumer device but I am sure the next version will be. Nokia does sometimes learn from its customers.

Thanks.

I agree completely that the N800 is not a consumer device -- at least not in the way people on this forum use it. If one uses it the way Nokia apparently intends it to be used, it is however a valid consumer device, albeit more akin to a slightly ******ed Sony Mylo.

[Bernard]

The ability to sync contacts and have calendaring info is crucial for military applications. Without these basics the N800 is a non-starter. As for the other issues, touch screen, I did not personally have this but have read about many that did have it. Bad batch maybe. I did get the reboot cycle of death, and the crash and burn quite often. In its current state I could not recommend the N800.

A year ago I had similar problems on my Nokia 770. The touchscreen was defective and it crashed/rebooted a lot (seemingly random) . I think these two things are related. I send it in for repair and after that the touchscreen was perfect and the device hasn't crashed since . (The opera browser did close on some rare moment, but no more random reboots)
BTW they didn't change the mainboard, only my touchscreen, I know because the the MAC address was still the same one. So I think a defective touchscreen can have severely negative impact on stability.
(I assumed here that the Mac address is unique for the board, in the same way that the imei number is for the Nokia phones: if they need to change the circuit board than your imei changes)

Might I ask what made you consider the N800 if calendar and contact applications are so vital? It isn't one of the features on any spec sheet I have seen. It isn't a PDA and was never marketed as such, so what made you look into the N800 in the first place? Surely those positive things that made you look are still present?

I agree a lot of thing can be improved, but I use the device a lot and found it a lot more useful than the Windows mobile PDA's I tried.

[sapporobaby]

@Karel,

They are going IP based dude. The ruggedization and such would come at a later stage. They did this with Motorola phones. PURE CRAPOLA. I think they Motorola hired some ex-colonel and he bought the pieces of junk. Anyway, they were looking at a bunch of devices. I saw the N800 in a Wayne's Cafe in downtown Helsinki and then reported back about it. Bought one for testing, and had a meeting with Nokia about it (but you know the rest of the story there), and decided that at the moment the N800 is not right for its intended uses. The Newton might be much better but it is limited in connectivity options. :)

[sapporobaby]

Thanks.

I agree completely that the N800 is not a consumer device -- at least not in the way people on this forum use it. If one uses it the way Nokia apparently intends it to be used, it is however a valid consumer device, albeit more akin to a slightly ******ed Sony Mylo.

Standup is calling dude. :)

[sapporobaby]

Might I ask what made you consider the N800 if calendar and contact applications are so vital? It isn't one of the features on any spec sheet I have seen. It isn't a PDA and was never marketed as such, so what made you look into the N800 in the first place? Surely those positive things that made you look are still present?


Big push for IP based devices, considering DARPA helped invent the Internet and all. This is my world: http://www.fas.org/spp/military/docops/army/fm24-24/fsc-78.htm and this: http://www.net.com/pdf/scream10050-ds.pdf

So I thought a command staff loaded with N800's would be pretty hi-tech, and right on time. I still do actually, just not the CURRENT N800. I think the next IT that Nokia introduces will have all of the problems fixed and ready for prime time. Call me an eternal optimist but I do feel this way. Also, I am waiting, don't tell my wife that I am spending more money, for the next f/w upgrade. If it is good, I might go back and get myself another one. As I mentioned, Karel's posts gave me pause. For myself, I can see using the N800. I know its limitations, and strengths. We will see. Thanks for the questions by the way.

[gmcbay]

The funny thing about the iPhone is that it is what made me aware of the N800. After all the iPhone hype, I got to thinking I'd really like a system like that but without all the cellphone garbage since I already have a phone I like.. basically I just wanted a nice little web browser device with WiFi, which is what the N800 is.

So I decided this weekend to go ahead and buy one this coming week. The fact that its almost completely open to development is a huge plus for me since I'm a professional C/C++ programmer. I can't wait to get started messing with software on the thing.

[neocx]

Fatal flaw of the iPhone: The battery is not replaceable. You have to send your iPhone back to Apple when the battery fails. Does Apple really expect people to give up their cell phones for a week or two while they wait for the battery to be replaced? Ridiculous. There was an article in the NY Times this weekend that pointed this out.

[bobhodgen]

I've got an iPhone and a N800. There's no comparison. I haven't touched the N800 since getting the iPhone.

The screen is two to three times brighter and readable in sunlight. The screen fonts are very readable and contrasty. The ability to zoom in and out quickly is amazing.

The OS and interface is like something out of the future.

Web browsing is much faster and easier than on the N800. The "reverse pinch" and double tapping on an area of a page work great. Even though the screen is smaller, the overall experience is better. I find myself wishing i could zoom in and out like that on my laptop.

Apple just gets it. They know what people want. And the interface doesn't get in the way.

OK, it's not perfect. The EDGE network is s l o w. . . .
The mail app needs spam filtering.
It's expensive.

But, I bet it sold more units in the first 24 hours than all of the N800's ever sold.

[sapporobaby]

It sold somewhere around 525K in 2.5 days. Not bad. You are correct though in that Apple seems to get it.

Quick question. How do you feel about not using the phone at all? I have the chance to get one without the phone contract, thus no slow, crappy EDGE, but I live in Finland which is pretty much wifi'd everywhere. If I can get an iPhone (us version) for a good deal until the European version comes out, would you recommend it?

Thanks.

[dbec10]

Just got done reading this review. Unlike some of the other half and quarter reviews. This one answers a lot of questions and is very fair and detailed. It tells you the good and the bad. I've been reading reviews from these guys for years and they have always been honest and thorough.

http://www.anandtech.com/gadgets/showdoc.aspx?i=3027

[sherifnix]

So I got some hands on time with the iPhone as well.

The screen resolution might be lower than the N800 but it's browsing experience is far superior to what's offered on the tablets. The text is much more legible, scrolling is perfect, and to quote others on the board, "Apple just gets it".

It is SO much easier to navigate sites, it makes the zoom buttons on the N800 look rather paltry. If you visit sites with heavy CSS like Ars Technica, you'll find it that the double tapping for zoom and finger scrolling knocks it out of the park.

Not only that, the rich email client that performs very well when within range of a wifi access point. It has a perfect YouTube interface, and the widget apps are decent as well.

I hate to say it, but Apple's programming genius embarrasses Nokia's internet tablet efforts.

Yes it doesn't support flash yet, but all its good for these days is banner ads and homestarrunner. Even then, Steve Jobs said in a recent interview that Flash support is being considered (likely means its coming).

It won't please everyone, but you're looking at a device that has near perfect text entry, battery life (7-9 hours of browsing or video!!!), browser, email and ipod. Focused on a small set of features, Apple delivered an amazing product. I expect the kinks and deficiencies to be worked out in firmware updates, I can't wait to see what they'll do.

[dbpaddler]

Have you ever heard of a bluetooth headset? Would think that'd be rather private. And with evdo rev A on the horizon and the newest crop of smartphones, what you're complaining about will be a non issue (ideally). And the fact that you make an argument of something that might happen 2% of the time the average (and many above-average) user uses his/her device is just laughable. I can pick out just about any device and pick it apart for some scenario that just rarely happens.

You're talking on the phone but want to look at GPS map and take notes on the web - sure you have speaker phone but what if its a private conversation.... and what if your friend is using your phone for a private conversation and you want to surf or setup GPS or anything. Think about that - do you really want every single thing in one.

Read this article.

http://www.forbes.com/home/wireless/2007/06/08/iphone-problems-apple-tech-wireless-cx_df_0611iphonemain.html

As for the iphone, it has flash, but not a lot of substance. The UI is a nice step above the average phone or smartphone. I played around with one for about an hour as one of my docs just ditched his 700p for it. I told him he'd be sorry, but for the time being he was all caught up in the landscape to portrait switching and the slick graphics like going to album cover mode when switching to landscape in itunes. He knows that will wear off, and he knows he'll be missing some of his basic pda functionality he took for granted. That on screen keyboard left a lot to be desired. As the poster mentioned above, the web is very graphic and silky smooth to roam about. It renders pages very well and is way beyond any browsing I've done on all platforms of smartphones and my brief time (a few hours) on the 770. The test messaging in bubbles has a neat factor to it.

It's extremely lightweight from a PIM sort of view. It's completely WYSIWYG. The ability to customize and add-on or even subtract just isn't there. They cripple it like they cripple the ipod. But it isn't a smartphone, and all the people that ditch their smartphones for it will complain and be unhappy after all the glitz and glamour wears off. I'd never leave a smartphone for it be it WM, BB or Palm.

For those that are just venturing into all the functionality, I'm sure they'll be happy campers. It was a fun little toy to play around with, and I'm sure it'll have it's place in the market. At the very least it will push other manufacturers to innovate a bit on their next go around. Then they'll add some glitz to the substance. iPhone will do just the opposite (one would hope) and competition will continue.

As for its text input. I can't agree with the above poster. I typed on it for quite a bit. I just can't see it becoming intuitive. I can type on my treo without looking at it after awhile. I can do it easily while driving and not always look down at it. I can't see doing that on the iphone without physical keys. If I'm staring at it, great. The predictive and intuitive parts of it are helpful, but I doubt it would ever completely replace physical keys.

Just my humble opinion.

[sondjata]

It really scares me to read the number of people who are admitting to typing and driving. What the **** is wrong with you people? I've been rear ended twice by people ****ing with their phones. You guys really need to cut that **** out.

[Karel Jansens]

What I found particularly funny is that, after watching a video on the "earth-shattering" user interface of the iPhone (<spit!>), my first reaction was: "But -- but -- I have almost all that already on my desktop".

You see, all I did, a while back, was install a Firefox plugin, called "Grab and Drag". Everything the iPhone (<spit!>) does, minus the pathetic two-finger-zoom, can be done with that lowly Firefox plugin.

Some programming genius indeed. All Jobs did was steal a Firefox plugin from 2005, make it a system plugin and called it innovation.

[Lithorus]

It sold somewhere around 525K in 2.5 days. Not bad. You are correct though in that Apple seems to get it.

Quick question. How do you feel about not using the phone at all? I have the chance to get one without the phone contract, thus no slow, crappy EDGE, but I live in Finland which is pretty much wifi'd everywhere. If I can get an iPhone (us version) for a good deal until the European version comes out, would you recommend it?

Thanks.
You can't use the iPhone for alot of things without it being activated AFAIK. Eg. the ipod app.

[gattsuru]

You're not supposed to do be able to do so. That doesn't (http://nanocr.eu/2007/07/03/iphone-without-att/) stop people (http://www.tuaw.com/2007/07/02/tada-the-6th-gen-contract-free-wifi-enabled-ipod/). Alternatively, you can take the risk and try deactivating it within 30 days, which by contract won't get the early deactivation keys... but good luck dealing with AT&T right now.

I personally wouldn't see the point in paying 500 or 600 USD for an 8gig portable media player, particularly with Archos coming out with the 5th gen models soon, but whatever works for you.

[sapporobaby]

You're not supposed to do be able to do so. That doesn't (http://nanocr.eu/2007/07/03/iphone-without-att/) stop people (http://www.tuaw.com/2007/07/02/tada-the-6th-gen-contract-free-wifi-enabled-ipod/). Alternatively, you can take the risk and try deactivating it within 30 days, which by contract won't get the early deactivation keys... but good luck dealing with AT&T right now.

I personally wouldn't see the point in paying 500 or 600 USD for an 8gig portable media player, particularly with Archos coming out with the 5th gen models soon, but whatever works for you.

You can also get a pre-paid subscription where they give you an activation code. Once the phone is active, you can simply throw the sim card away and use the iPod and wifi features.

[dbec10]

Karl, I know that you know that your comparison is not fair.

[sherifnix]

What I found particularly funny is that, after watching a video on the "earth-shattering" user interface of the iPhone (<spit!>), my first reaction was: "But -- but -- I have almost all that already on my desktop".

You see, all I did, a while back, was install a Firefox plugin, called "Grab and Drag". Everything the iPhone (<spit!>) does, minus the pathetic two-finger-zoom, can be done with that lowly Firefox plugin.

Some programming genius indeed. All Jobs did was steal a Firefox plugin from 2005, make it a system plugin and called it innovation.

I love that you find a good implementation of grab and drag offensive. All apple does is take good ideas and implement them correctly. It's not their fault everyone else sucks at refinement.

The n800 <Spit!> after 7 months still kinda blows. No wonder Apple already sold 1 million iphones. I can't even use the fullscreen keyboard in opera after all this time... what a joke.

I want to stick with this IT but its a terrible mess of bugs and quirks.


Edit:

Sorry for being so negative. I hope that our next firmware refines things a bit. But I still find the Linux evangelists more annoying that Mac heads. Karel, whats with the <spit!> crap. Apple just came and rocked the pants off Nokia's attempt at an internet communicator. Hopefully it is what lit the fire under their asses.

And so what if it was done on some Firefox plugin in 2005... its useless on a desktop, The iPhone implemented it where its actually useful. Everyone wants a "desktop" browsing experience, so you knock them for making it happen? You make zero sense.

Their "innovation" is in actually making stuff useful. Innovation is not a buggy mess that relies on open source to fill in painfully gaping holes in their product. And if you didn't even load anything on the N800... the built apps are terrible. Opera is out of date and can't render Web 2.0 stuff. The email client is useless. I'd say the only nice thing on the IT is Google Talk.

7 months ago the tablet came out. Why is there text entry issues in Opera still? Its a crippling bug.

[sondjata]

What text entry problems in Opera are you talking about?

Mine works fine.

[amigokin]

Will it blend? YES, IT DOES!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qg1ckCkm8YI

Say goodbye to Apple

[sondjata]

Money to blend

[barry99705]

It's a pretty good advertising gimmick. If the blender can survive blending some of the stuff he puts in it, normal food stuff will be no problem. Blenders are the biggest replacement kitchen gadget in my house. I still like the video of them trying to return the Sony handy cam they blended.

[DigitalAce7]

I didn't want to comment on this but I will.

BOTTOM LINE -------

Iphone is a cell phone - some say smart some don't bottom line its a phone with phone features.

N800 is a Internet Tablet - Now this is where it gets confusing. What is an internet tablet. It allows you to surf the internet. Its main purpose.

Yes the iphone has a different interface - some pluses there.

Bottom line again - price and features!

NAME ONE SINGLE THING THAT THE IPHONE CAN DO THAT THE NOKIA CAN'T!

I can't name one. (except maybe play Apple itunes purchases DRM). Obviously nothing can because its copyrighted. Go ahead I dare any iphone person to name something.

[Karel Jansens]

NAME ONE SINGLE THING THAT THE IPHONE CAN DO THAT THE NOKIA CAN'T!

Line up idiots in droves to buy it?

Suck money out of their pockets faster than a Californian ex-wife?

Make aforementioned idiots believe in earnest that Jesus used one?

Make me go <spit!> everytime I'm forced to mention its name?

[omegaone37]

NAME ONE SINGLE THING THAT THE IPHONE CAN DO THAT THE NOKIA CAN'T!

Make a phone call?...

oh wait!... it CAN do that too!!! :p

Omega :rolleyes:

[paulh]

NAME ONE SINGLE THING THAT THE IPHONE CAN DO THAT THE NOKIA CAN'T!

Connect to a GSM network.

Fit in a small pocket.

Charge from USB.

Take 2-megapixel pictures.

Detect physical rotation and proximity to screen.

Detect multiple-finger presses (although thinking about it, the Nokia can distinguish stylus from thumb and I think the 800 is pressure-sensitive, so that doesn't really count).

I suspect that some of its UI effects (shrinking and cross-fading) may not be implementable either (partly because the 770/800 have more pixels to process). I can't remember if Canola does anything comparable.


I'm sure someone will tell me that the Nokia can connect to a cellphone and be hacked to charge from USB, but if we go down that route, this might turn into a long thread!

[omegaone37]

It started as a totally "moot" thread...

...so why make it short!

Regards...
Omega