All-new Neo1973

[Karel Jansens]

For those of you who don't like the iPhone (<spit!>) and might be somewhat underwhelmed by the "Amazingly New and Revolutionary System Update" for the N800, have a look at the new specs for the Neo1973 from OpenMoko:

http://www.slashgear.com/openmoko-upgrade-neo-hardware-developers-can-buy-from-july-9th-066104.php

You might start saving up though, because the USD 450,00 for the base unit do not include a SIM. And obviously, the dearth of applications will initially even be worse than on the Maemo platform.

But just imagine the interesting things that can be done with the new graphics accelerator chip and the accelerometers: Beryl with "shaking" interface, anyone? :cool:

[ysss]

That's a brilliant looking device (visually and its tech specs), except for the name... it does sound like the screen name of a 34 years old Matrix fan, don't you think??

[Milhouse]

Such a shame it's only a 640x480 VGA screen. :(

[SeRi@lDiE]

I am trying to order a Advance Neo 1973 but dont find one anywhere?!?

[Karel Jansens]

That's a brilliant looking device (visually and its tech specs), except for the name... it does sound like the screen name of a 34 years old Matrix fan, don't you think??

I don't know where the "Neo" part comes from, but the "1973" refers to the year the mobile phone was invented.

[Karel Jansens]

Such a shame it's only a 640x480 VGA screen. :(

The dpi count is over 280. That's mighty close to (old) laser printer resolution. I'd say that makes it a print quality screen, even more so because there's no colour interpolation.

So, small: yes. Crisp: you betcha.

[Karel Jansens]

I am trying to order a Advance Neo 1973 but dont find one anywhere?!?

I'm waiting till November. Let someone else sort out the first bugs...

[sherifnix]

I appreciate the open phone platform, but that is one ugly looking piece of kit.

[Milhouse]

The dpi count is over 280. That's mighty close to (old) laser printer resolution. I'd say that makes it a print quality screen, even more so because there's no colour interpolation.

So, small: yes. Crisp: you betcha.

Karel, dpi is irrelevant - dpi is simply a relative term for the number of pixels for a given physical screen size and in the case of the Neo the screen size is very small hence the high dpi.

Web sites are drawn using physical pixels not relative measurements such as dpi. A 640 wide resolution is simply too narrow for the vast majority of web sites, yet an 800 pixel wide screen is good enough for more sites. A high or low dpi will not alter the fact that the majority of web sites need to be reformatted and munged about with in order to fit on a 640 wide screen.

640 wide screens are _so_ 2005... :)

[ysss]

DPI is irrelevant? That's either an ignorant or uninformed comment. Anything higher than VGA on a 2.8" screen will be too small to be readable.

[w14]

I reckon its a brave man that suggests that Milhouse's comments are ignorant ot uninformed having only posted twice himself.

I think you'll find, if you read what he said, that he was referring to the crispness of the text and its comparison to printed text.

Maybe you should read and try to understand before posting here.

[Milhouse]

DPI is irrelevant? That's either an ignorant or uninformed comment. Anything higher than VGA on a 2.8" screen will be too small to be readable.

Fair enough, but DPI is irrelevant when it comes to web site formatting - the only thing that matters is horizontal pixels and the Neo doesn't have enough of them. No matter whether it's screen has a high DPI or a very low DPI, it physically lacks the pixels to display web sites without reformatting (or excessive horizontal scrolling), which is why to me the DPI is irrelevant - pixels are king!

And you don't need to work out the DPI to realise that text displayed on a 2.8" 640x480 resolution screen is going to be very small! :)

[sdrman]

A pitiful 480x320 screen didn't stop apple from claiming the iPhone is a "breakthrough internet device." (They don't claim this anymore. Why? It's still in the google results though.)

I think these devices are designed for purposes other that internet browsing so these low resolution screens are considered acceptable. I have used an iPhone for a little while and the internet experience was not as enjoyable as the n800. The eye strain trying to read dithered pages was terrible.

I agree that 800 pixels is the minimum width for a "serious" internet device. I disagree that dpi is irrelevant: 800x480 on a 2.8" screen would make some very small text. It probably wouldn't make for a more enjoyable web experience. (Unless you're reading it under a magnifier.)

[sherifnix]

Sweet jesus, have any of you heard of resolution independence?

480x320 can display exactly what our poor 800x480 screens can display. Just needs proper software.

Take the iPhone for example, if you put it in landscape mode you see the entire site in readable form. Better than the N800 in lots of cases too. Just visit Ars Technica with the N800, you have to scroll left and right. If you use fit to width it messes up all the layout.

Visit on an iPhone, its scaled to the screen so there is no horizontal scrolling and its perfectly legible. It matters what you do with the available resolution, not just how much you have.

[Milhouse]

Sweet jesus, have any of you heard of resolution independence?

480x320 can display exactly what our poor 800x480 screens can display. Just needs proper software.

Do you have any examples of how a "native" 800x480 web page will look on a 480x320 screen? I'd be interested to see this, as so far all mobile based browsers I've used in the past have trashed a web page in order to squeeze it on to the screen, and even if it is possible to squeeze a full web page on a 640x480 screen then and only then does the DPI become an issue (small screen, high dpi => tiny text).

[sherifnix]

Aye, sorry I just updated my last post.

Arstechnica.com is a good example. It wont fit on the N800 screen, but scales perfectly on the iPhone. Its a 1024x768 website.

[Milhouse]

What kind of scaling are they using on the iPhone - CSS or hardware/video scaling? From the demos I've seen, you can get an overview page which fits the screen then it zooms in again to access specific parts of the page, which is neat but not necessarily how I currently access web pages which is the whole site, as intended and legible. :)

[Karel Jansens]

A pitiful 480x320 screen didn't stop apple from claiming the iPhone is a "breakthrough internet device." (They don't claim this anymore. Why? It's still in the google results though.)

I think these devices are designed for purposes other that internet browsing so these low resolution screens are considered acceptable. I have used an iPhone for a little while and the internet experience was not as enjoyable as the n800. The eye strain trying to read dithered pages was terrible.

I agree that 800 pixels is the minimum width for a "serious" internet device. I disagree that dpi is irrelevant: 800x480 on a 2.8" screen would make some very small text. It probably wouldn't make for a more enjoyable web experience. (Unless you're reading it under a magnifier.)

I agree completely with the 800x480 axiom. Nevertheless, consider this: the Neo1973 is a completely open platform, it has (or rather: will have) a graphics acceleretor on board and its specs take into account finger-driven input. Is it that hard to imagine someone will very quickly come up with a "finger-magnifier", or a "finger-zoom"?

[TA-t3]

Arstechnica.com of course fits perfectly fine on the N800. You just zoom it to 80%. Maybe the iPhone scales it automatically, but to me it's a feature that it's under user control. Because when you get to actually wanting to _read_ the site you obviously zoom it so that only the interesting text column fills the screen.

Back on topic: I cheer the OpenMoko initiative, although personally I'm not interested in smartphones so it's not for me. (I prefer a simple cheap BT/SMS phone with 3G or Edge to use as communication line for the N800 when outside wi-fi access areas)

[sherifnix]

The zooming hardware buttons are pretty clunky.

Double tapping directly to where you want to zoom is infinitely more intuitive.

I'm not opposed to Nokia's way of doing it, it just doesn't scale nearly as well as the iPhones automatic choices. Why are you forced to zoom in 20% increments, the iphone throws it on the screen perfectly everytime without input. It should at least be an option on the N800, automatic scaling and finger zooming.

You also mention that its not readable at 80%, thus the extra resolution is doing nothing. Its too bad Nokia's scaling isn't in hardware, it is slow and since it doesn't offer a transition its hard to track where its going visually.

[ysss]

Fair enough, but DPI is irrelevant when it comes to web site formatting - the only thing that matters is horizontal pixels and the Neo doesn't have enough of them. No matter whether it's screen has a high DPI or a very low DPI, it physically lacks the pixels to display web sites without reformatting (or excessive horizontal scrolling), which is why to me the DPI is irrelevant - pixels are king!

And you don't need to work out the DPI to realise that text displayed on a 2.8" 640x480 resolution screen is going to be very small! :)

I totally agree to you that pixel (density) is king, but given the condition of current (popular) OSes, or rather, their screen and web rendering technology - unfortunately the resolution of the screen also defines the size of the objects on screen (the widgets, buttons and text)...

My point was: if the openmoko has 800x480 screen, even though it can display most sites in 'full width', it most probably will be too small to be comfortably readable... unless it has a 'tool' to aid the reader to cope with the display size, like Apple has done well with its version of Safari on the iphone.

One more point, I think the detail level of a media (in this case the DPI of the screen) is tied closely to the distance the viewer is expected to use the media.

Anyhow, OK, now I understand more about where you're going w/ your initial comments ;) Thx

[sherifnix]

Yep, with the right hardware and modern OSes, the need for the super high res screen will lessen on these devices.

By going with 480x320, everything is very legible with properly designed apps. And when you need a little more space to work with, you can scale everything just fine on the iPhone.

I'd like Nokia to steal some of their ideas :) They have very similar graphics accelerators.

[Drewvt]

Yep, with the right hardware and modern OSes, the need for the super high res screen will lessen on these devices.

I don't quite agree; the zoom is not always an adequate solution. Having more resolution at your disposal is more reliable, it's also more future-proof.

For example, having to zoom in can makes images ugly, it can distort text, all of which is important when e.g. you're reading comics, or browsing certain websites that suffer from this.

[luketoh]

So the conclusion is this

1) DPI is relevant
2) Resolution in terms or pixels wide and high are relevant
3) Due to 1 & 2, that means the screen realestate is relevant
4) Good software is also necessary

If you can have all of the above...why not? If you cannot, then lets see how the software can help lessen the difficulties due to less than optimum hardware features.