Orly? N9 not coming to USA

[MSHAH]

http://www.engadget.com/2011/08/09/nokia-the-n9-isnt-coming-to-america/

:O

[cincibluer6]

Word is that maybe it'll be sold on Amazon and that this just pertains to carrier subsidized handsets. Maybe, maybe not. I'll do what I can to get one, even if it's not officially sold in the US.

[volt]

This isn't about carriers at all.

http://europe.nokia.com/find-products/devices/nokia-n9/check-availability

This is about how Nokia isn't going to distribute this phone to the USA via the official Nokia distribution networks.

Amazon is US based, isn't it? They'll have to buy their phones from Nokia somewhere, and Nokia US isn't stocking up. I don't have a full list of Amazon departments, but in EU, Amazon is also available from .co.uk, .de, .it, and .fr. UK, Germany, Italy, France; all of these countries are also missing from the availability list. Japan and Canada also.

[ysss]

http://www.gsmarena.com/nokia_n9_lands_at_fcc_bares_all_for_the_camera-news-2910.php

What's the point of getting it FCC certified if there's no plan of selling it in the states at all?

[lorul2]

Written by :Ina Fried (Bold stuff was me..)

Exclusive: Nokia to Exit Symbian, Low-End Phone Businesses in North America
August 9, 2011 at 10:25 am PT
Nokia plans to stop selling both feature phones and Symbian-based smartphones in the United States and Canada as it tries to put all of its muscle behind the company’s huge bet on Windows Phone.


In an interview with AllThingsD, the head of Nokia’s U.S. subsidiary said that the company will also focus exclusively on sales through traditional wireless carriers. In the past, Nokia has sold its smartphones at full price to consumers, after finding carriers unwilling to significantly subsidize or market the products. It has also had a significant, if low margin, business selling low-cost feature phones.

However, Nokia says it needs to put all of its efforts into its Windows Phone products, which are due out later this year.

“When we launch Windows Phones we will essentially be out of the Symbian business, the S40 business, etc., ” Nokia Inc. President Chris Weber said in an interview. “It will be Windows Phone and the accessories around that. The reality is if we are not successful with Windows Phone, it doesn’t matter what we do (elsewhere).”

North America is a priority for Nokia, Weber said, in part because it is a key market for Microsoft and also because Nokia sees it as a key to winning in the smartphone battle globally.

“We’ll develop for North America and make the phones globally available and applicable,” Weber said. “In fact, evidence of that is that the first Windows Phones that will ship are being done by our group in San Diego.”

Nokia plans its biggest-ever marketing push focused on reestablishing its presence in the U.S.

“Without getting into numbers, it is significantly larger than anything we have done in the past and the most we will invest in any market worldwide,” Weber said. “They are putting their money where their mouth is.”

T-Mobile did start selling a Symbian smartphone earlier this year — the Nokia Astound — but it’s launch came after Nokia had already announced its move to Windows Phone and sales have been disappointing, Nokia Weber confirmed.

The moves are part of a series of changes that Nokia has made since Weber assumed the top U.S. post in February. Like Nokia CEO Stephen Elop, Weber came from Microsoft, where he most recently headed enterprise sales.

As part of the shift, Nokia also said it has no current plans to bring its lone Meego-based phone, the Nokia N9, to the U.S., a fact reported earlier Tuesday by Engadget.

The company is moving its sales force to Sunnyvale, and Weber told AllThingsD that the company also aims to consolidate more of its operations in Sunnyvale, shifting away work now done in other facilities in White Plains, N.Y., and Dallas. Those changes are expected to be made by early next year.

Update: (giving credit, where it is due.)

All things D is the site here is the link

http://allthingsd.com/20110809/exclusive-nokia-to-exit-symbian-low-end-phone-businesses-in-north-america/?mod=tweet

[slarti]

Should I start making a fortune selling these things on eBay for $2000 once it's for sale here in Finland?:p

[don_falcone]

"Key market"? "priority"? "will also focus exclusively on sales through traditional wireless carriers"? All hail to the US of A market and the stupidities here; like carrier involvement and having to pay the same contract price *regardless of using a subsidized or non-subsidized phone... all hail to the king baby. Bow over, and get ready to let your a55 being defiled...

* not true for T-Mobile, but.. that seems to go out of the window, now that they were assimilated by AT&T.

"I cannot eat as much as i want to throw up" is applicable here...

[lorul2]

Should I start making a fortune selling these things on eBay for $2000 once it's for sale here in Finland?:p

Please send me one with a working usb port first...:(

[ajwatt]

"No plans?" The N9 cleared the FCC. Someone was planning to sell it here.

I wonder if Nokia has any plans to sell anything in the US.

[Daneel]

What a bunch of idiots :)

[sjgadsby]

The thread "Shoe #2 "Drops"!! No N9 in US VIVA LA N900!!" (4 posts) has been merged into this thread.

[Jedibeeftrix]

........................uk?

[flailingmonkey]

"No plans?" The N9 cleared the FCC. Someone was planning to sell it here.

I wonder if Nokia has any plans to sell anything in the US.

I'm fairly certain that by having the N9 cleared, Nokia will be able to either skip or at least severely reduce the amount of time it will take for the identical hardware Windows Phone 7 version of the N9, code name "Sea Ray", to be cleared by the FCC. That would be a pretty good reason to put the N9 through.

[don_falcone]

Exactly. Having been involved in CE testing for a product, i can say in short that having to re-test only parts can lessen time for certification if certain preconditions are met. Which should involve at least the RF part here, (the case is not really that different), so much less time needed.

[Radu]

Lol, nice.
It looks like Nokia is really working hard at sabotaging itself.
If before today I was considering the N9 as a possible future phone for me, now I am pretty sure my next phone will be an Android.

[Nyrath]

MeeGo N9 a threat to WP N9
http://utestme.com/wp-as-a-far-cry-from-meego/
Translation: We are not going to jeopardize the Microsoft powered N9 US sales by letting the customers compare a better MeeGo to a worse WP, given the exact same hardware premises.

[danramos]

http://pleco.org/heh/061130_ballmer.jpg

[kjmackey]

According to Comscore, Microsoft's smartphone share in the US is dropping - and they're hoping Nokia will reverse that? In the US? Because Nokia is such a well-known brand for high-end phones in the US?

And the US, of course, is such a huge part of the worldwide mobile phone market... /S

I'd get depressed but I promised myself I'd stop getting depressed over what Nokia is doing.

[mikecomputing]

I bet Nokia will come with N9 to US. cause of FCC already filled but it will run WP7.

And then.they will try to give "free upgrade" to the europeans to run WP7 in Q1 2011. start make me wonder if this is the "support" Klas Ström means :O

FAIL

[Milhouse]

I bet Nokia will come with N9 to US. cause of FCC already filled but it will run WP7.

And then.they will try to give "free upgrade" to the europeans to run WP7 in Q1 2011. start make me wonder if this is the "support" Klas Ström means :O

FAIL

Unlikely, as the N9 is TI OMAP based whereas WP7 devices are (so far, and this isn't likely to change any time soon with Nokia and stock Mango) Qualcomm Snapdragon based.

So the N9 and the Nokia WP7 "SeaRay" will be totally different devices in terms of internal hardware, but externally they (may) look very similar. I seriously doubt the FCC would care much - if at all - about external appearance. Maybe one day Microsoft will support more SoC hardware than just Snapdragon, but for now that's all their is.

The N9 will be available in the US though, via Expansys etc. - from Juha-Pekka Helminen (http://twitter.com/#!/jphelminen/status/101039900123598849), "Mobile telecoms & device strategy & planning, product mgmt, BD, MeeGo, Qt. @Nokia":


It basically means that Expansys or whoever will sell you #N9 in the US "grey market" i.e. they will import it to the US.


Followed up with this tweet (http://twitter.com/#!/jphelminen/status/101040535384498178):


What this basically means is that Nokia will not provide first line customer care and support in the US either for #N9.


So the N9 will be available in the US one way or another, no doubt with pretty hefty price mark ups, and don't expect any first line support from Nokia. Nice, eh? :rolleyes:

[marxian]

Given that

1. Nokia are now replacing broken N900s with N8s

and

2. The N9 is being produced in relatively small numbers,

I wonder what will happen if, in six months time, a customer returns an N9 for repair?

Customer: 'I wish to return my N9 for repair.'

Nokia: 'We aren't repairing those anymore, as we don't have the spare parts. We can send you a new phone.'

Customer: 'A new N9? Cheers.' :)

Nokia: 'No. We can send you a suitable replacement. One of our fantastic Sea Ray phones.'

Customer: :(

[s4br0s0]

Given that

1. Nokia are now replacing broken N900s with N8s

and

2. The N9 is being produced in relatively small numbers,

I wonder what will happen if, in six months time, a customer returns an N9 for repair?

Customer: 'I wish to return my N9 for repair.'

Nokia: 'We aren't repairing those anymore, as we don't have the spare parts. We can send you a new phone.'

Customer: 'A new N9? Cheers.' :)

Nokia: 'Yes. With WP7.'

Customer: :(

Fixed for you.

Grettings.

[marxian]

Fixed for you.

Grettings.

Isn't that what I said? :p I thought Sea Ray was a WP7 phone.

[s4br0s0]

Isn't that what I said? :p I thought Sea Ray was a WP7 phone.

Ooooops.

My bad.

I thought you was talking about this Sea Ray.

http://global-indo-inc.tradenote.net/images/users/000/470/827/products_images/786843.jpg

Grettings.

[gerbick]

bah... I had some long, thoughtful post that I wanted to share with TMO.

but instead, I'm just sharing an equally indifferent "**** you" back to Nokia.

so sayeth this American; land of none of your marketing, home of your horrible distribution channels...

[lore]

When did Americans stop caring about competition and free markets? How come free Americans don't mind being screwed around by mobile phone carriers? I'm Italian and too many things are wrong in my Country but in the last 10 years the USA have grown similar to Italy in many ways - except in Italy carriers are bound by law to have "open" contracts. Peace to all Americans. Love your Country!

[brandonc]

first we wait for the thing to be even announced after all that hiding, then wait weeks around for a confirmation date, and then find out its not launching here. Really nokia...you are not supposed to be making the same mistakes that got you here...I cant believe they are going to botch another phone launch.
... watch I bet it gets a delay or two right before September because thats the nokia way. I havent bought a non nokia phone for over 7 years now, but man a galaxy s 2 would hit that sweet spot right about now. I was going to get an N9 but all the directions are pointing elsewhere, I justified the hardware in my head even if it isnt the latest and greatest. However Im already hating how nokia is treating this product and I cant live for minimal bug fix updates.

[danramos]

When did Americans stop caring about competition and free markets? How come free Americans don't mind being screwed around by mobile phone carriers? I'm Italian and too many things are wrong in my Country but in the last 10 years the USA have grown similar to Italy in many ways - except in Italy carriers are bound by law to have "open" contracts. Peace to all Americans. Love your Country!

Americans don't have a choice about caring. The carriers aren't giving us any options and the government (the FCC) seems to always side with business against customers, despite their job being to protect customers from abuse of the free airwaves. Go figure.

[gerbick]

When did Americans stop caring about competition and free markets? How come free Americans don't mind being screwed around by mobile phone carriers? I'm Italian and too many things are wrong in my Country but in the last 10 years the USA have grown similar to Italy in many ways - except in Italy carriers are bound by law to have "open" contracts. Peace to all Americans. Love your Country!

Because unlocked means nothing when you have only two GSM carriers and the other two carriers are CDMA. No savings for an unlocked phone, just that the manufacturer gets more of that money.

[brandonc]

Because unlocked means nothing when you have only two GSM carriers and the other two carriers are CDMA. No savings for an unlocked phone, just that the manufacturer gets more of that money.

well you do have some advantages of unlocked phones, you can sign up for service with your own equipment, waiving those fees, and it also protects you from paying mandatory smartphone data plans as they are unable to tell what kind of device it is.

[gerbick]

well you do have some advantages of unlocked phones, you can sign up for service with your own equipment, waiving those fees, and it also protects you from paying mandatory smartphone data plans as they are unable to tell what kind of device it is.

They don't waive the fees. You still pay for data once you use those frequencies.

Seriously. The US carrier/market system is ****ed up.

[Radu]

When did Americans stop caring about competition and free markets? How come free Americans don't mind being screwed around by mobile phone carriers? I'm Italian and too many things are wrong in my Country but in the last 10 years the USA have grown similar to Italy in many ways - except in Italy carriers are bound by law to have "open" contracts. Peace to all Americans. Love your Country!

Americans also believe in freedom. Phone companies have the freedom to do whatever they want, you can't expect them to do what you, the guy with money in your pocket want.
So for example, I will buy an Android phone instead, which means that Nokia will lose my money. And there are others like me too.

[brandonc]

They don't waive the fees. You still pay for data once you use those frequencies.

Seriously. The US carrier/market system is ****ed up.

yeah its horrible and imagine when you have no choice and have to side with at&t or cdma...if that goes through that is.

[Zoxir]

I swear half that some dude from Nokia opens his mouth it's bad news for the N9. Can they just STFU I don't know how many more of this I can read before I change my mind about the N9.

[jo21]

nokia is ****ing up big.

killing s40 also for a horrible selling wp7?

nokia is ****ed.

hello android.

[MoJo]

In terms of strategy this makes no sense to get rid of the S40 line in North America. There still remains a market for feature phones and especially the type of phone that costs under $40 for prepaid plans, and emergency calls.

To clear up the arena for a very direct campaign on WP7 flavored devices is one thing, but to say we don't need to sell the phones that kept us afloat any longer is ridiculous. Honestly the N9 not being available in North America is not an issue to me because the phone is DOA anyways. It really is a beautiful concept, and it is designed superbly. The issue with the N9 is that it is more so apparent that Nokia doesn't want to support it than the N900. They are selling it in markets like Finland because they don't want it to hamper the WP7 draft pick.

I am actually willing to try a WP7 made by Nokia, so long as it has a HW KB, and not solely rely on touch. Also selling the phones through carrier partner channels guarantees better control of the product, the product promotions, and its' uptake commercially. But S40 phones still have a place in the North America market.

[jo21]

you know whats funny?

eldar this say they were doing this, s40 was going to flushed.

nokia have no way of recovering.

lets hope s40 its turning into a s100

[geneven]

They don't waive the fees. You still pay for data once you use those frequencies.

Seriously. The US carrier/market system is ****ed up.

I'm not sure I understand this issue, but I'm paying Tmobile $15 a month plis $1.50 for any day I want to use the Internet. No sign of throttling, either. That seems pretty cheap for my N900. Of course, I am home using WiFi most days so I don't pay for the Internet then.

[danramos]

you know whats funny?

eldar this say they were doing this, s40 was going to flushed.

nokia have no way of recovering.

lets hope s40 its turning into a s100

I've been having difficulty understanding you, but this one takes the prize for the most cryptic word-salad I've seen in a while. I normally hold back on pointing out broken English, but this one's just too broken and I really WANT to know what you're saying. :P Can you PLEASE, PLEASE rephrase your thoughts again so that we can try to understand it?

[lemmyslender]

Funniest thing to me is how they've tricked folks around here into developing for a dead end device that won't even be available in a lot of major markets (except as grey market with no warranty support).

So, in reality, Nokia will produce the contractual minimum amount of N9's, with a limited market release. Designed for failure.

I feel for the poor Meego/Harmattan team that was hoping and pray the N9 would take off and corporate would see the light.

[Rugoz]

Was to be expected, not an american so I don't give a ****, as long as they push meego in other regions, europe, india, china, middle east etc. Those are the places where nokia should NOT use wp7.

[gerbick]

I'm not sure I understand this issue, but I'm paying Tmobile $15 a month plis $1.50 for any day I want to use the Internet. No sign of throttling, either. That seems pretty cheap for my N900. Of course, I am home using WiFi most days so I don't pay for the Internet then.

You've just described a different plan.

I pay $15 a month for 2gb of data per month, $5 for 200 text messages (all receive, I use Google Voice to send) and I pay a monthly subscription fee for my phones (I have two on my account).

What do you pay for monthly voice? And in what amount?

[geneven]

You've just described a different plan.

I pay $15 a month for 2gb of data per month, $5 for 200 text messages (all receive, I use Google Voice to send) and I pay a monthly subscription fee for my phones (I have two on my account).

What do you pay for monthly voice? And in what amount?

Good question. I pay 10 cents a minute, and don't make many calls. Since I am often home, I am not calling people from my cell phone then. Text messages are unlimited, btw. I'm of course not paying any additional fees for my phone.

Tmobile doesn't seem to be interested in whether I am using a smartphone.

[don_falcone]

That's interesting gerbick. You have to pay for receiving messages, and for having phones 'attached' (kinda 'registered'?) to your plan? Please elaborate.

[slaapliedje]

Ah, it's always good to get home from a hard day of work and get kicked in the testicles.

You know, I had already made up my mind that I didn't give a crap if the N9 was released in the US. I was going to import it anyhow.

Most of the electronic devices I have ever liked have always hit it much bigger in Europe than in the USA. I don't know what it is about Americans, whether they just always go for the cheap, or they are just so used to being screwed over by greedy politicians and corporations that they just accept whatever steaming nuggets that are sold to us.

For example, back in the day, the Atari ST and Amiga were both far superior to the Apple Mac and IBM PCs. Yet where is Atari and Amiga now?

Oh speaking of that, when I read that they'd be moving all of their crap to Sunnyvale, I instantly got a flash back of Atari and their rise... and absolute fall there.

It's like the battle of VHS vs Betamax. As many have attested, MeeGo is superior to WP7.

Also notice, it's another ex-Microsoft anus face that is head of the USA market. Are they seriously so brainwashed by MS that they believe that the WP7 platform will miraculously sell a crapload because Microsoft is a company based in the USA?

I don't even know a single person that has a Nokia phone, besides myself. I even try to spot them in stores here and there never are any. Everyone who wants a smartphone pretty much already have either an iPhone or an Android. Not to mention they already have some money sunk into whatever apps, or at least are used to the free ones that are ad supported.

I've personally seen one WP7, and it really looked horrible with it's big square tiles. Ugh, didn't actually use it, have no real desire to.

This whole thing makes me wonder something though, how many MeeGo developers that got the N950 are located in the USA?

slaapliedje

P.S. I'm one pissed off citizen of the USA.

[Crashdamage]

The N9 is clearly supposed to fail. They'll build a minimal number released in limited areas with minimal promotion and support. Then Elop and his honchos can use it's pre-ordained failure as more justification for sellling out to MS and WP7. I can hear him now..."Well, we built a really nice MeeGo phone but it failed miserably to generate buzz and sales. Obviously no one cares about MeeGo."

IOW Elop is only releasing the N9 to build justificatiion to abandon MeeGo entirely. An intentional fail inspite of nice hardware and a great OS. Because MeeGo - aka Linux - is a mortal enemy to Elop, Ballmer, M$ - and of course WP7.

[gerbick]

Good question. I pay 10 cents a minute, and don't make many calls. Since I am often home, I am not calling people from my cell phone then. Text messages are unlimited, btw. I'm of course not paying any additional fees for my phone.

I travel way too often. I need way more minutes for business than what you describe. Your needs and mine are way opposite it seems.

Tmobile doesn't seem to be interested in whether I am using a smartphone.

If you use data, you'd think they'd know if you had a smartphone or not. I mean, there's feature phones with browsers, but nothing chews through bandwidth like tethering. Let's see how data insensitive they are then...

Now that would be a curious project.

[don_falcone]

Btw, it's already on ./ ... http://mobile.slashdot.org/story/11/08/09/2013227/Nokia-Killing-Symbian-and-S40-In-North-America

@slaapliedje: regarding ST and Amiga, it was the lack of marketing. The Americans rely on marketing. If there's no or no substantial marketing, only geeks go out of their comfort zone in hunt of something they might be interested in, or what is deemed to be needed.

[daperl]

@slaapliedje

Excellent post. We must have been separated at birth.

P.S. I have an n950 and I'm in the U.S.

[ysss]

Obligatory "O RLY?" image to keep things ON TOPIC.

http://images.teamtalk.com/09/01/800x600/orly-owl_1748741.jpg

I think Nokia is trying to follow Apple's footstep by setting the number of supplies less than the market demand, so that their unit prices raise sky high and the things get mass-imported to china's grey market by mules like the iPhones do.

or not.

[Rugoz]

windows phone 7 market share 2Q 2011:

germany: 7.1%
US: 2.1%
Other countries <1.7%

maybe they should sell wp7 only in germany. On the other hand the germans were always loyal nokia customers so meego would probably sell good there as well.

[Creamy Goodness]

This whole thing makes me wonder something though, how many MeeGo developers that got the N950 are located in the USA?

slaapliedje

P.S. I'm one pissed off citizen of the USA.

not very many, i looked at all the names and most sounded european... I'd estimate 10-20 tops out of the 250
(i'm including canada)

[daperl]

If I see someone walking around with a piece-of-sh*t Sea Ray before I have an n9, my head might come right off my neck. But don't worry, I'll try to make sure somebody gets it on video.

[somedude]

I swear half that some dude from Nokia opens his mouth it's bad news for the N9. Can they just STFU I don't know how many more of this I can read before I change my mind about the N9.

I have no affiliation with Nokia..... don't drag me in this mess:p:p

[buchanmilne]

If you use data, you'd think they'd know if you had a smartphone or not. I mean, there's feature phones with browsers, but nothing chews through bandwidth like tethering.


What does tethering have to do with having a smart phone? The Nokia 6600 had GPRS tethering over bluetooth, and virtually any Nokia feature phone still has that feature ...

[delmar]

On amazon.de you can preorder the device (only 16GB black or blue) for 619 Euro, but the date of release is unknown. First they say it comes from Nokia.de, but now they've changed in "nokia.at", so it comes from the neighboring country.

So it seems be true, that it will not be officially released in Germany.

[onethreealpha]

......contractual minimum amount of N9's


mmmmm. There's that word "contract" again.
Still haven't seen anyone produce evidence of this contract yet.

Or do i need to put my tin foil hat on for that?

[delmar]

The "contract" says: killall

See the second link there http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1067092&postcount=3708

[Milhouse]

If Alien Dalvik can be made available for the N9 that should help overcome any lingering buyer reticence with regard to "Gr[ea]y market" imports into the US... anyone have news on Alien Dalvik, or is it just vapourware?

[ericsson]

The N9 is clearly supposed to fail. They'll build a minimal number released in limited areas with minimal promotion and support. Then Elop and his honchos can use it's pre-ordained failure as more justification for sellling out to MS and WP7. I can hear him now..."Well, we built a really nice MeeGo phone but it failed miserably to generate buzz and sales. Obviously no one cares about MeeGo."

IOW Elop is only releasing the N9 to build justificatiion to abandon MeeGo entirely. An intentional fail inspite of nice hardware and a great OS. Because MeeGo - aka Linux - is a mortal enemy to Elop, Ballmer, M$ - and of course WP7.

The N9 is released in all parts of the world where Nokia is large. You know that it's only a couple of months since Symbian was the largest smartphone OS, by far. Still they were nowhere to be seen in the US. The world hasnt really changed all that much since then, only Android becoming popular world wide, thanks to Samsung.

People like you make me glad the N9 wont be seen in the US.

[gordonshowers]

well you do have some advantages of unlocked phones, you can sign up for service with your own equipment, waiving those fees, and it also protects you from paying mandatory smartphone data plans as they are unable to tell what kind of device it is.
They are entirely able to tell what sort of device it is, from the IMEI:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_Allocation_Code

[sjgadsby]

They are entirely able to tell what sort of device it is, from the IMEI:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_Allocation_Code

A cellular provider needs to be looking though. From browsing assorted Internet forums, it appears AT&T and T-Mobile US regularly spot those using Android phones on cheap, "non-smartphone" data plans and force those users up to higher tiers. N900 users, on the other hand, seem to slip by unnoticed. There aren't that many N900s in the United States, and the percentage of those sneaking around on non-smartphone plans is likely such a tiny fraction of a fraction that persuing it isn't worth the effort.

If the N9 isn't released in the US at all, then it would seem the odds are good neither AT&T nor T-Mobile will bother adding its IMEI range to their watch lists.

[Crashdamage]

The N9 is released in all parts of the world where Nokia is large. You know that it's only a couple of months since Symbian was the largest smartphone OS, by far. Still they were nowhere to be seen in the US. The world hasnt really changed all that much since then, only Android becoming popular world wide, thanks to Samsung.

People like you make me glad the N9 wont be seen in the US.
People like me have used and promoted Linux for years. People like me plunk down $650 to pre-order a N900 sight unseen. People like me would buy a N9 just as a show of support for MeeGo if it appeared to have any future at all. I'm tempted to order one anyway for just that reason, even though I really need a hardware keyboard. But realistically I'm not so rich I can blow $750 on a device not suited to my needs just to make a point.

I was only stating the situation as I see it. If that makes me an Ugly American so be it.

[Zoxir]

People like me have used and promoted Linux for years. People like me plunk down $650 to pre-order a N900 sight unseen. People like me would buy a N9 just as a show of support for MeeGo if it appeared to have any future at all. I'm tempted to order one anyway for just that reason, even though I really need a hardware keyboard. But realistically I'm not so rich I can blow $750 on a device not suited to my needs just to make a point.

I was only stating the situation as I see it. If that makes me an Ugly American so be it.
Don't even bother man why give money to some ******s that didn't even tell you the truth but gave us some market to market excuse. I wish I could somehow be there when Nokia becomes the latest fail in this joke that has been going on for years and it is called windows for mobile phones.

[strongm]

The N9 is released in all parts of the world where Nokia is large.

Nokia is large in the UK - and they are not releasing the N9 there

[Helmuth]

I bought Nokia phones since 1997. But now I really hope Samsung, HTC and LG will release soon some decent MeeGo phones to show the Nokia 2% WP7 niche market share how the smartphone buisness really works!

[gerbick]

What does tethering have to do with having a smart phone? The Nokia 6600 had GPRS tethering over bluetooth, and virtually any Nokia feature phone still has that feature ...

Tethering in the US means that you'll get charged. Show me otherwise.

Verizon is stopping illegal tethering (http://www.slashgear.com/verizon-to-stop-illegal-tethering-via-unofficial-apps-09170438/) same for AT&T (http://www.zdnet.com/blog/btl/at-t-set-to-crack-down-on-illegal-tethering/54138). Funny how "illegal tethering" also means that bluetooth tethering without a tethering data plan (which is extra) is inclusive in these crack downs.

Glad you brought up the Nokia 6600. It's 2011. Not 2003. The US carriers are charging for those old features. If you're not American, do more research. If you are American, and getting away with that... please share your secret.

[jo21]

Tethering in the US means that you'll get charged. Show me otherwise.

Verizon is stopping illegal tethering (http://www.slashgear.com/verizon-to-stop-illegal-tethering-via-unofficial-apps-09170438/) same for AT&T (http://www.zdnet.com/blog/btl/at-t-set-to-crack-down-on-illegal-tethering/54138). Funny how "illegal tethering" also means that bluetooth tethering without a tethering data plan (which is extra) is inclusive in these crack downs.

Glad you brought up the Nokia 6600. It's 2011. Not 2003. The US carriers are charging for those old features. If you're not American, do more research. If you are American, and getting away with that... please share your secret.

i am tether happy in my country. =) , though n9 come built with wifi hotspot.

even n900 supports all tetherings,

the thing is finding a "cheap" unlocked imported n9 in america will be hard :(

[te37v]

one word - Newegg

[debernardis]

It's 2011. Not 2003. The US carriers are charging for those old features. If you're not American, do more research. If you are American, and getting away with that... please share your secret.

I thought carriers base on TTL to spot tethering, and it is said there are programs that modify packets to escape detection.
Google 'tethering ttl' for further clarification.

[gerbick]

i am tether happy in my country.

I was talking about the USA. I've been talking about the USA this entire time. All of my links go back to the USA. And I'm glad that you can tether in your country; however I'm talking about something wholly different this entire time.

So allow me to clarify once more; I've been talking about USA, a country in North America. Tethering is an extra charge here. Disagree all you wish, expound upon how your country or system is better... I'll invariably agree. While living in Japan and Germany, while traveling in Europe... there are some issues, but the carrier system(s) there are easily better than the USA's anachronistic carrier system.

even n900 supports all tetherings,

Not disputed.

the thing is finding a "cheap" unlocked imported n9 in america will be hard

No ****. Thus my anger.

[ericsson]

People like me have used and promoted Linux for years. People like me plunk down $650 to pre-order a N900 sight unseen. People like me would buy a N9 just as a show of support for MeeGo if it appeared to have any future at all. I'm tempted to order one anyway for just that reason, even though I really need a hardware keyboard. But realistically I'm not so rich I can blow $750 on a device not suited to my needs just to make a point.

I was only stating the situation as I see it. If that makes me an Ugly American so be it.

That doesn't make you an ugly american, this does:
The N9 is clearly supposed to fail. They'll build a minimal number released in limited areas with minimal promotion and support.

It is not clearly supposed to fail just because it isn't released in the US. It isn't released in minimal numbers either. Besides, what does failure mean in this case? If Nokia makes money on it, it clearly is not a failure, and probably will have a follow-up or two. In the long run WP will be the main smartphone OS for Nokia, but this doesn't mean that Harmattan is dead. It will continue as a niche OS as stated by Elop.

As I see it americans are in no way ready to put their money where their mouths are (quite literally), and this prevents them from getting the N9, and lots of similar devices.

[mscion]

People like me have used and promoted Linux for years. People like me plunk down $650 to pre-order a N900 sight unseen. People like me would buy a N9 just as a show of support for MeeGo if it appeared to have any future at all. I'm tempted to order one anyway for just that reason, even though I really need a hardware keyboard. But realistically I'm not so rich I can blow $750 on a device not suited to my needs just to make a point.

I was only stating the situation as I see it. If that makes me an Ugly American so be it.

At this point, I really don't care if the n9 is released.

At some point I would like to replace my N900. The N900 has been and continues to be an excellent experiment that has had many striking successes in bringing a linux desktop experience to small mobile devices and linking it to the touch screen interface. Its current short coming, for me, is that the HW needs upgrading in performance, especially as new devices are released with twice the CPU speed and 4 times the RAM. A bigger screen, 4+ inches is also needed. The N950 would have been sufficient as the N900 upgrade but that clearly is not going to happen.

While the N9 would provide the user with an excellent experience, managing photos, contacts, facebook related stuff with cute transitions basically -all the things a good candybar should do, I am still more interested in core Linux and the functionality it brings based on, for example, the great software in the Debian repositories (thanks to Qole and his cadre of helpers). Having such capability really makes the N900 unique.

So what are the alternatives? Take the Droid 3 for example. I test drove one for about two weeks. It has superior specs than the n900. Indeed, it felt like a little primed racecar in the palm of my hand as compared to the N900. It has a nice keyboard although it feels a little rubbery and is missing important keys like ctrl and F1... I'm not particularly interested with its motoblur, although it is probably not that bad from a candy bar perspective. All the bloatware verizon puts on it is also annoying. Of course you would need root to clean up and improve things but that has not been achieved as of yet by the XDA forum hackers. I tried some free apps that I had used on N900 like Documents to Go and it is just as bad (or good if you liked it on N900) on the Droid 3. An open office app is available but it is read only. So, for me, the challenge would be to bring the Debian functionality to this device. I'm not sure how possible it is or if there would be enough interest to get anywhere for this device and the particular processors it uses. Anyways, I returned the Droid 3 to verizon and paid the $35 dollar repackaging fee. It was worth the test drive. So where does that leave me? If root access is achieved with the Droid 3 I might still buy it as it would be fun to play with. I'm also excited about other devices in the pipeline like the SGH-I927. For now I will stick with the n900 until something better comes along. That is, something that I can retain, as best a possible, what I like and find useful on the N900 but with improved performance.

[gerbick]

I thought carriers base on TTL to spot tethering, and it is said there are programs that modify packets to escape detection.
Google 'tethering ttl' for further clarification.

You "could" mask your tethering via quite a few means; some are detectable via serious scrutiny that tends to not be done by AT&T - trust me on this one, I know that part intimately.

But as it stands sooner than later, they "might" find you. Either way, I'm not worried about it... so far, 3 years later, so good.

[ericsson]

At this point, I really don't care if the n9 is released.

At some point I would like to replace my N900. The N900 has been and continues to be an excellent experiment that has had many striking successes in bringing a linux desktop experience to small mobile devices and linking it to the touch screen interface. Its current short coming, for me, is that the HW needs upgrading in performance, especially as new devices are released with twice the CPU speed and 4 times the RAM. A bigger screen, 4+ inches is also needed. The N950 would have been sufficient as the N900 upgrade but that clearly is not going to happen.

While the N9 would provide the user with an excellent experience, managing photos, contacts, facebook related stuff with cute transitions basically -all the things a good candybar should do, I am still more interested in core Linux and the functionality it brings based on, for example, the great software in the Debian repositories (thanks to Qole and his cadre of helpers). Having such capability really makes the N900 unique.

So what are the alternatives? Take the Droid 3 for example. I test drove one for about two weeks. It has superior specs than the n900. Indeed, it felt like a little primed racecar in the palm of my hand as compared to the N900. It has a nice keyboard although it feels a little rubbery and is missing important keys like ctrl and F1... I'm not particularly interested with its motoblur, although it is probably not that bad from a candy bar perspective. All the bloatware verizon puts on it is also annoying. Of course you would need root to clean up and improve things but that has not been achieved as of yet by the XDA forum hackers. I tried some free apps that I had used on N900 like Documents to Go and it is just as bad (or good if you liked it on N900) on the Droid 3. An open office app is available but it is read only. So, for me, the challenge would be to bring the Debian functionality to this device. I'm not sure how possible it is or if there would be enough interest to get anywhere for this device and the particular processors it uses. Anyways, I returned the Droid 3 to verizon and paid the $35 dollar repackaging fee. It was worth the test drive. So where does that leave me? If root access is achieved with the Droid 3 I might still buy it as it would be fun to play with. I'm also excited about other devices in the pipeline like the SGH-I927. For now I will stick with the n900 until something better comes along. That is, something that I can retain, as best a possible, what I like and find useful on the N900 but with improved performance.

Bla bla bla. What it boils down to is how much is continued open source OS, continued open source Qt on mobile phones, continuation of (real) Linux on mobile phones and a the worlds coolest free unlocked phone worth for you. 1$? 100$? 1000$?

[jo21]

At this point, I really don't care if the n9 is released.

At some point I would like to replace my N900. The N900 has been and continues to be an excellent experiment that has had many striking successes in bringing a linux desktop experience to small mobile devices and linking it to the touch screen interface. Its current short coming, for me, is that the HW needs upgrading in performance, especially as new devices are released with twice the CPU speed and 4 times the RAM. A bigger screen, 4+ inches is also needed. The N950 would have been sufficient as the N900 upgrade but that clearly is not going to happen.

While the N9 would provide the user with an excellent experience, managing photos, contacts, facebook related stuff with cute transitions basically -all the things a good candybar should do, I am still more interested in core Linux and the functionality it brings based on, for example, the great software in the Debian repositories (thanks to Qole and his cadre of helpers). Having such capability really makes the N900 unique.

So what are the alternatives? Take the Droid 3 for example. I test drove one for about two weeks. It has superior specs than the n900. Indeed, it felt like a little primed racecar in the palm of my hand as compared to the N900. It has a nice keyboard although it feels a little rubbery and is missing important keys like ctrl and F1... I'm not particularly interested with its motoblur, although it is probably not that bad from a candy bar perspective. All the bloatware verizon puts on it is also annoying. Of course you would need root to clean up and improve things but that has not been achieved as of yet by the XDA forum hackers. I tried some free apps that I had used on N900 like Documents to Go and it is just as bad (or good if you liked it on N900) on the Droid 3. An open office app is available but it is read only. So, for me, the challenge would be to bring the Debian functionality to this device. I'm not sure how possible it is or if there would be enough interest to get anywhere for this device and the particular processors it uses. Anyways, I returned the Droid 3 to verizon and paid the $35 dollar repackaging fee. It was worth the test drive. So where does that leave me? If root access is achieved with the Droid 3 I might still buy it as it would be fun to play with. I'm also excited about other devices in the pipeline like the SGH-I927. For now I will stick with the n900 until something better comes along. That is, something that I can retain, as best a possible, what I like and find useful on the N900 but with improved performance.

droid 3 have an awful camera =_=

[Taleydra]

I tether on T-mobile, but I have an unlimited data plan. No extra charges, but maybe its included.

[mscion]

droid 3 have an awful camera =_=

Yea you're right. One problem was a funny blue tint when using flash. To be fair, an XDA developer said this could be fixed. Don't know for sure.

[Crashdamage]

It is not clearly supposed to fail just because it isn't released in the US.
I was speaking in global terms. It has been announced that key areas other than just the US will be left out.

If Nokia makes money on it, it clearly is not a failure, and probably will have a follow-up or two. In the long run WP will be the main smartphone OS for Nokia, but this doesn't mean that Harmattan is dead. It will continue as a niche OS as stated by Elop.
A very big if at this point. Even bigger if for any follow-up units.
Elop has given me no reason to believe anything he says.

As I see it americans are in no way ready to put their money where their mouths are (quite literally), and this prevents them from getting the N9, and lots of similar devices.
I did. Android got it's start in the US. The iPhone, iPad. We'll buy good, innovative products. Even be willing early adopters. Thing is, in the US promotion and advertising is very important. Microsoft will make Nokia understand that. M$ will spend whatever it takes to make WP7 and by extension Nokia a force in the mobile market in the US and the world.

I see the release of the N9 (and the discontinuation of Sybian and seeming lack of interest in Qt) as Nokia's way of stepping completely away from MeeGo and open source projects altogether. But to do it as quietly as possible, with the least protest or backlash both externally the media and internally, within the company. With minimal promotion in the media to draw attention or help it succeed. The N9 will be their excuse - "Don't blame us - we tried MeeGo with the N9! There was no interest!"

Even if the N9/MeeGo kinda backfires on Elop and is hailed as truly amazing, generates monster buzz and sales in spite of everything, Nokia will still step away from MeeGo because then it becomes a legitimate threat to their WP7 strategy.

Either way MeeGo loses.

I DO see one possible positive scenario. A good thing is that with 1G+ dual-cores, 1G+ ram, better GPUs, etc. handset and tablet hardware is now catching up to the requirements of what's needed to really make MeeGo shine. Now suppose the N9/MeeGo is sensational, a revolution in mobile OS. So good that despite the best efforts of Elop/Ballmer/Nokia/M$ to quietly bury it, it gets monster buzz, reaches cult status, etc. So good that Samsung and/or HTC - other major manufacturers - pick it up and release MeeGo hardware. So good it makes WP7 a joke on someone's screensaver.

We can dream can't we?

[lma]

Bla bla bla. What it boils down to is how much is continued open source OS, continued open source Qt on mobile phones, continuation of (real) Linux on mobile phones and a the worlds coolest free unlocked phone worth for you.

IMHO in terms of openness the only question that matters is "can I fix the bugs that affect me?". For Harmattan the answer seems to be "No" (all user-facing apps, UI etc are closed, and aegis is going to fight you on the rest).

It's a whole different story if it turns out that the N9 can also run meego.com MeeGo, but that is unknown.

[ericsson]

I did. Android got it's start in the US. The iPhone, iPad. We'll buy good, innovative products. Even be willing early adopters.

Did you buy any Nokia N series in the mid 2000, or a communicator earlier? Those products ruled the smartphone world up untill a couple of months ago. I guess the answer is no, no you didn't purchase one of those revolutionary (for it's time) products, I guess you didn't even know they existed. If you actually did purchase one, then we're somewhat OK. But it is off the point concerning the N9, here and now. Early adopter of Android and iPhone, but not willing to support the N9 due to a few hundred bucks, only tells me you don't really care all that much about open source and Linux and Qt, it is all words, no action. Qt is continuing on S40 by the way, as well as on PC and many other places.

Microsoft will obviously do all the marketing for Nokia, as well as Samsung, HTC LG and SE. Nokia has already lost, Microsoft cannot lose this time, this is it for them, or they will be gone from the mobile OS scene for many many years. Still the N9 will be sold in a much larger market than Nokia-WP is, and it will be reasonable priced. The prices are already dropping from the early high prices we have seen until now. Even if WP should, in total, reach 20-30% market share in the US, the number of WP-Nokia sold will be dwarfed compared to the N9 in absolute numbers.

[Crashdamage]

...not willing to support the N9 due to a few hundred bucks, only tells me you don't really care all that much about open source and Linux and Qt, it is all words, no action.
Gimme a break. $750 (the rumored price) or so for a N9 is not chump change to me. Especially for a phone that physically really doesn't suit my needs. I already gave significant support for a open source mobile OS when I bought the N900. I'll gladly do more support if and when a product is offered I'd really like to own. The N9 isn't it.

Even if WP should, in total, reach 20-30% market share in the US, the number of WP-Nokia sold will be dwarfed compared to the N9 in absolute numbers.
Now that's what I call optimism!

[geneven]

I think that this may be long-term good news. It is becoming clearer that Nokia is completely abandoning meego and the N9, etc. That gives the green light to other manufacturers to enter a no-competition arena. The pathway to the future has been marked. Now someone has to follow it.

[ericsson]

Now that's what I call optimism!

OK, I give you a brake. But why should this be optimistic? The US has about 300 million inhabitants. 95% have a phone. If WP obtain a market share of 20%, which is a very optimistic estimate of Q4 2012, then this is only about 57 million units (in total). Let's be optimistic again, and say Nokia will sell 40% of those units. Then we have 23 million units sold. 23 million units sold by Q4 2012 is very optimistic. In Europe it sell a bit less, since it will only go to a selected few countries from the start, lets say 10 million units.

So 33 million units in total world wide by Q4 2012 is a somewhat believable but (overly) optimistic estimate for Nokia-WP.

The N9 will be sold throughout Europe, it will be sold in Brasil and Argentina, Russia, Malaysia, Hong Kong etc etc - and - China. That is at least a population of 2 billion human beings. For the N9 to beat this overly optimistic estimate, it only needs a market share of 1.7 percent. In most of those countries there are more than one phone per citicen.

Way too simplified this, but what is more optimistic? Harmattan is far from dead.

[dDoS]

How much does your average consumer base their phone purchase on future versions anyways? I realize I'm not exactly your run of the mill consumer, but I still bought a brand new N900 earlier this year.

[ericsson]

How much does your average consumer base their phone purchase on future versions anyways? I realize I'm not exactly your run of the mill consumer, but I still bought a brand new N900 earlier this year.

LOL :D An excellent point. It is actually related to fanboyism. A fanboy assume that everyone think as he does. That is, he "support" and cheer "his" product/technology/whatever in the hope that it will become/remain market leader world wide, because said product/technology/whatever is "superior in all respects" (if it's not superior in all respects, it's superior in everything that counts).

World wide maybe 2% are fanboys, in the US the number is 74%

[Chuck Norris]

99 percent are fanboys in us. But that will soon change when they/you can't afford to buy the phones apple produce.

[blipnl]

99 percent are fanboys in us. But that will soon change when they/you can't afford to buy the phones apple produce.

Not true, they will take a second mortgage, creditcard or a loan of some kind just to buy those devices. I swear I have seen many jobless people with the newest Apple handsets. But I know some reasonable people who own those, too ;)

[volt]

The N9 will be sold throughout Europe, it will be sold in Brasil and Argentina, Russia, Malaysia, Hong Kong etc etc - and - China. That is at least a population of 2 billion human beings. For the N9 to beat this overly optimistic estimate, it only needs a market share of 1.7 percent. In most of those countries there are more than one phone per citicen.

Way too simplified this, but what is more optimistic? Harmattan is far from dead.

JUST STOP.



No, really, just stop.



For Nokia to sell even a million of these, they would have to produce a million of them. If you believe they will produce a million units, you are, sir, the only one person in the world who does so.

Nokia isn't selling this phone, they're hiding it. You claim it's being sold throughout Europe. Not throughout Western Europe, it isn't.

Amazon sells throughout Europe. Let's compare.
There's an Amazon.co.uk - UK is missing from the Availability list.
There's an Amazon.fr - France is missing from the Availability list.
There's an Amazon.it - Italy is missing from the Availability list.
There's an Amazon.de - Germany is missing from the Availability list.

Okay, so in no EU market large enough to be mentioned on Amazon.eu. How about the rest of the world?

There's an Amazon.com - USA is missing from the Availability list.
There's an Amazon.ca - Canada is missing from the Availability list.

HIT: Oh, Amazon.cn might one day sell the N9. If you're comfortable ordering in Chinese.

There are 196 countries in the world, including South Sudan and Taiwan. The N9 Availability list holds 24 countries.

There's no North America, there's hardly any Western Europe, there's no India, there's no Africa, they're not going to put it out for sale here in my puny little northern country, and guess what...

They aren't calling it an iPhone killer. There's your hint right there. There's not even a viral marketing campaign going on.

[gerbick]

World wide maybe 2% are fanboys, in the US the number is 74%

Where the **** did you come up with this nonsense?

I've seen some idiotic banter from you, however this is a new level of ignorance. You know too little to talk so much.

[ericsson]

JUST STOP.



No, really, just stop.



For Nokia to sell even a million of these, they would have to produce a million of them. If you believe they will produce a million units, you are, sir, the only one person in the world who does so.

Nokia isn't selling this phone, they're hiding it. You claim it's being sold throughout Europe. Not throughout Western Europe, it isn't.

Amazon sells throughout Europe. Let's compare.
There's an Amazon.co.uk - UK is missing from the Availability list.
There's an Amazon.fr - France is missing from the Availability list.
There's an Amazon.it - Italy is missing from the Availability list.
There's an Amazon.de - Germany is missing from the Availability list.

Okay, so in no EU market large enough to be mentioned on Amazon.eu. How about the rest of the world?

There's an Amazon.com - USA is missing from the Availability list.
There's an Amazon.ca - Canada is missing from the Availability list.

HIT: Oh, Amazon.cn might one day sell the N9. If you're comfortable ordering in Chinese.

There are 196 countries in the world, including South Sudan and Taiwan. The N9 Availability list holds 24 countries.

There's no North America, there's hardly any Western Europe, there's no India, there's no Africa, they're not going to put it out for sale here in my puny little northern country, and guess what...

They aren't calling it an iPhone killer. There's your hint right there. There's not even a viral marketing campaign going on.

You missed the point. You are also wrong, that list only contain a small fraction of the total countries the N9 is sold. The point was (and still is), WP-Nokia has to sell like no other newcomer has ever done before in the history of mobile phones, to have a fighting chance to sell more than the N9 - and - the second point was that the N9 will be introduced to much more people than WP-Nokia.

They will produce the number of N9s according to the demand. Nokias WP aren't even produced by Nokia. They have more production capacity for the N9 than WP many times over. Just because you aren't capable of having several thoughts in your head at the same time, doesn't mean Nokia has this restriction.

[volt]

You know too little to talk so much.



If I had a quote book, this would be in it.

[vivmak]

I think it will be sold in US but it will be launched in Asia first, Asia is where the volumes are and they don't really care about the underlying OS etc, it should be good looking and be fancy and should be from Nokia, these volumes will generate them cash they need the most at the moment. Buyers in US and other countries in the west are bit fussy about many things on phones or any other electronic gadgets therefore if the Asian launch is not successful they will never release N9 anywhere else or maybe only through daily deals website if they have stock :)

[lorul2]

OK, I give you a brake. But why should this be optimistic? The US has about 300 million inhabitants. 95% have a phone. If WP obtain a market share of 20%, which is a very optimistic estimate of Q4 2012, then this is only about 57 million units (in total). Let's be optimistic again, and say Nokia will sell 40% of those units. Then we have 23 million units sold. 23 million units sold by Q4 2012 is very optimistic. In Europe it sell a bit less, since it will only go to a selected few countries from the start, lets say 10 million units.

So 33 million units in total world wide by Q4 2012 is a somewhat believable but (overly) optimistic estimate for Nokia-WP.

The N9 will be sold throughout Europe, it will be sold in Brasil and Argentina, Russia, Malaysia, Hong Kong etc etc - and - China. That is at least a population of 2 billion human beings. For the N9 to beat this overly optimistic estimate, it only needs a market share of 1.7 percent. In most of those countries there are more than one phone per citicen.

Way too simplified this, but what is more optimistic? Harmattan is far from dead.

Where did I put that Godzilla Facepalm?!

They wont even make 100000 N9's and you claim they will sell millions? Thats not optimism thats denial.

[Daneel]

And the abill_uk tittle for this week goes to...(standing ovation)...ericsson!

[ericsson]

Where the **** did you come up with this nonsense?

I've seen some idiotic banter from you, however this is a new level of ignorance. You know too little to talk so much.

LOL, you and danramos are just too predictable, still you surprise from time to time with your lack a finer sense of humor. But you are right, the number is actually closer to 73%

[volt]

You missed the point. You are also wrong, that list only contain a small fraction of the total countries the N9 is sold. The point was (and still is), WP-Nokia has to sell like no other newcomer has ever done before in the history of mobile phones, to have a fighting chance to sell more than the N9 - and - the second point was that the N9 will be introduced to much more people than WP-Nokia.

No, you missed the point.

JUST STOP.

You're in a different reality than Nokia, and we don't want you to confuse any more people. Nokia aren't making these phones you tell us they're going to sell. And after not making them, they also aren't yet talking about them. They aren't generating any hype about the phones they won't be selling. There's no marketing preparing the markets that aren't getting them. The only reasonable explanation that they are making the N9 at all is because over several years it was clearly stated that they WOULD and too many Nokians had a lot of pride hanging on it. Ditching it just before release would have caused a major internal war.

Elop and Weber are on a Mission to Save Nokia by selling Windows Phones in the USA. The N9 is a distraction from their plans.

[ericsson]

I think it will be sold in US but it will be launched in Asia first, Asia is where the volumes are and they don't really care about the underlying OS etc, it should be good looking and be fancy and should be from Nokia, these volumes will generate them cash they need the most at the moment. Buyers in US and other countries in the west are bit fussy about many things on phones or any other electronic gadgets therefore if the Asian launch is not successful they will never release N9 anywhere else or maybe only through daily deals website if they have stock :)

Exactly. Anyone believing otherwise have no idea what is going on - no idea at all. When the Chinese gets hold of this, it's rock n roll.

[catbus]

Maybe Eldar was right... only 92 000 pieces of jewels...

[gerbick]

LOL, you and danramos are just too predictable, still you surprise from time to time with your lack a finer sense of humor. But you are right, the number is actually closer to 73%

Say something humorous and we'd probably laugh at the joke.

So far, I've been laughing at the joke...

[volt]

Exactly. Anyone believing otherwise have no idea what is going on - no idea at all. When the Chinese gets hold of this, it's rock n roll.

Quoted in expectation of gerbicks comment.

[ericsson]

You people are a lousy bunch of analysts LOL. I said earlier that WP+Nokia will be a hit and was ridiculed. As things turn out it actually looks like Nokia-WP will make it OK, they are really going for it.

Now the exact same people are trying to have me ridiculed for saying that the N9 will sell in numbers, and the reason: Nokia-WP will sell in numbers instead. And of course all the Eflop and M$ and killing Nokia and whatnot.

WP-Nokia will be OK, the N9 will be OK. Nokia will be OK. That is what will happen. The reason you can't see that is because you are thinking with your fanboy guts instead of your brains (not that it would actually make that much difference for you anyway :) )

[gerbick]

Quoted in expectation of gerbicks comment.

I seriously have none. Face palm needs a newer level past double face palm... or even past alien facehugger face palm... I'm talking intergalactic level(s) of face palm here.

Like a Galactus face palming God level of face palm.

Makes no sense. But on meth, it still wouldn't.

[volt]

Just stop.

You're not even looking at a single fact, just pulling weird out of your exit.

[lemmyslender]

@ ericsson

Please print out the following quote, go to the nearest mirror, and read it.

A fanboy assume that everyone think as he does. That is, he "support" and cheer "his" product/technology/whatever in the hope that it will become/remain market leader world wide, because said product/technology/whatever is "superior in all respects" (if it's not superior in all respects, it's superior in everything that counts).

Your recent denial of the truth in this thread and constant predictions that despite all the evidence, the N9 will apparently be the single best selling phone ever, are clearly indicative that by your own definition, you are a fanboy.

Please face the facts, the N9 is DOA and the odds of another device from Nokia running MeeGo are very slim indeed.

[ericsson]

Say something humorous and we'd probably laugh at the joke.
Gerbick + Elop = True :eek:

[mikecomputing]

Americans also believe in freedom. Phone companies have the freedom to do whatever they want, you can't expect them to do what you, the guy with money in your pocket want.
So for example, I will buy an Android phone instead, which means that Nokia will lose my money. And there are others like me too.

freedom? LOL yes especially Apple that just sued Samsung and now stoped them from selling Samsung tablet in european :mad:

But I guess that "freedom" is only for US companys and not competition comming from outside US. I heard solmeone said some l US people want to change law and make Linux illegal cause its piratesoftware. If thats freedom I dont know if I like it...

I guess thats why Nokia also failed in US and now trying again with help of, yeah we all know who....

[volt]

Makes no sense. But on meth, it still wouldn't.

Gerbick, this is one of the moments where I leave despair behind and just have to sit and contemplate the destruction of mankind as we've been overwhelmed by the accidental side products of man's success of overcoming and controlling our environments. As we no longer have any natural threats, we're finally succumbing under the inevitable outcome: survival of the stupidest.

[lorul2]

I seriously have none. Face palm needs a newer level past double face palm... or even past alien facehugger face palm... I'm talking intergalactic level(s) of face palm here.

Like a Galactus face palming God level of face palm.

Makes no sense. But on meth, it still wouldn't.

Ask and ye shall receive...

http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/9495/1262374845371.jpg

see what I did there..:D

[onethreealpha]

Just got an email yesterday from nokia (au), confirming my subscription to the N9 update list, and letting me know more info is coming soon......

I'll ship to the states..... for a small fee :D

[lma]

As things turn out it actually looks like Nokia-WP will make it OK, they are really going for it.


Just like they are going to sell 150 million more Symbian phones, or how S40 will get them the next billion customers. Yeah. Right.

[gerbick]

You people are a lousy bunch of analysts LOL. I said earlier that WP+Nokia will be a hit and was ridiculed. As things turn out it actually looks like Nokia-WP will make it OK, they are really going for it.

Dude. Let's start with a fact. 1.2% share in the US for WP7. 7.1% in Germany.

WP7 has a bigger share in another country than its origin. And it was more heavily marketed in the US.

Now the exact same people are trying to have me ridiculed for saying that the N9 will sell in numbers

How so? It's on sale in so few confirmed markets. So how, pray tell, have you come up with this feeling of yours? Details.

[lma]

Like a Galactus face palming God level of face palm.


With Kirby dots!

[gerbick]

With Kirby dots!

http://gerbick.com/images/galactus_facepalm.jpg

I had no clue it even existed.

[geneven]

I heard someone said some l US people want to change law and make Linux illegal cause its piratesoftware.

Wow, devastating quote from someone about someone. I heard someone say there was a Flat Earth Society in England!

[lorul2]

I'll see your galactus and raise you a godzilla!


http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_KRE8A7CxOTQ/S9_QylCiZxI/AAAAAAAAAB4/9xsDySp4Hlc/s1600/03.jpg

[mikecomputing]

Where did I put that Godzilla Facepalm?!

They wont even make 100000 N9's and you claim they will sell millions? Thats not optimism thats denial.

oh please show me this is the facts! and not some stupid idiotic comments from Eldar and his friends....

[jo21]

i got confirmation n9 wont be sold by amazon US either.

if you ever see it , its a unlocked imported version, with no warranty.

[catbus]

Have U read this?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/5/56/Asterixcover-15.jpg/220px-Asterixcover-15.jpg

[sony123]

Having N950 and having tried WP7, the swipe interface is refreshingly good and miles ahead of WP7's core UI. This is not to say WP7 is bad, but it feels like it's designed by engineers. I think given Harmattan and WP7 devices side-by-side, most people will pick Harmattan. Obviously, this is what NOK-MS don't want to see. Besides, the US carriers are unlikely to pick up a phone that has been announced dead before it's born. So I understand the business decision but it's crap.

WP7 might help NOK survive a little longer, but I don't believe it will propel NOK-MS very far. On the other hand, I still believe N9 has a chance to be successful in Asia...

[blipnl]

What did you all expect? With the former killing spree of Nokia's CEO'ism, board directory surfing, pants-pissing for warmth in February, whilse many talented employees rahter jump ship instead of working for a dead end, the burning platform. Nokia made only bad decisions last 12 monhs and some years before that as well (exceptions existed back then). 9 out of 10 people reading this post would have made a better CEO for this handset maker.

I like the device a heck lot so I'll buy it if I ever get the chance, but I have no hope nor pity nor expectations for Nokia anymore. Luckily the Nokias I own are all good and thus exceptions for the rule, and I feel like the N9 will complete that list for me ;) And there is where I stop the Neggayada, bring it on this N9 :D

[gerbick]

I need to start a rage thread.

Yeah. That's what I need. Just pure rage. ericsson is invited. I need a village idiot to yell at.

[ericsson]

@ ericsson

Please print out the following quote, go to the nearest mirror, and read it.



Your recent denial of the truth in this thread and constant predictions that despite all the evidence, the N9 will apparently be the single best selling phone ever, are clearly indicative that by your own definition, you are a fanboy.

Please face the facts, the N9 is DOA and the odds of another device from Nokia running MeeGo are very slim indeed.

My point was that there is no way on the face of the earth that WP-Nokia will outsell the N9, at least not in 2012. The N9 is sold world wide. I am sure "world wide" means nothing to you, but it is all the land outside of North America as far as the N9 is concerned.

The N9 is dead in the US, that is all, and it means nothing for the N9 as it wouldn't sell in the US no matter what.

I and millions and millions of other will purchase the N9, we will enjoy it, we will smile and be happy, the sun is shining. What are you going to do? I know, you are going to pretend the N9 doesn't exist, you (and many more) has already started that exercise. It is pathetic.

[gerbick]

WP7 is pretty dead in the US. 1.2% share dude. Seriously.

[ericsson]

I need to start a rage thread.

Yeah. That's what I need. Just pure rage. ericsson is invited. I need a village idiot to yell at.

I will come, just wait a month, so I can bring my N9 :D That way I will be a beacon in the utter darkness, and you will be green of envy :D

[MoJo]

This thread makes no difference and is filled with a wide spectrum of speculative projections. As far as it is concerned, the N9 won't be widely available is a fact. The support behind the OS is flaky to non-existent is a fact. The HW being overpriced will be a confirmed fact. Lastly the marketing behind the phone has already been lackluster which is a fact even though the phone was received with wide fanfare. As far as products go, there really is no future vision for the platform which is a fact.

The BB Bold 9900 has comparable if not better specs ... although it is an apples to oranges type of comparison. But the Bold will cost around $549CAD, so this means it is priced more competitively then the already outdated specs of the N9.

Now any sane person looking for miracles would still be hard pressed to conceive the notion that the N9 will be a commercial success reaching in the millions. But then again I also see it with the potential of reaching a million when all is done, but nothing gang busters ... but this all counts on the type of commitment Nokia is willing to put behind it which is not reassuring at this time.

If the people in the region especially those in Finland want to make a stance ... buy the N9 as part of an expensive demonstration, but I guess life is rarely a Disney movie.

[catbus]

But... What if there is no "millions and millions" pieces to sell?

If Nokia would really like to sell this jewell, then where is marketing?

There are not many people, beside us, who know the existence of N9...

Why Nokia "shutdown -now" scandinavian swipe-servers?

What is this radio-silenzio? Is this good marketing?

"What is this s..t häppening..."?

[volt]

Yeah. The N9 is just a bi-thought. Take it for what it is, not for what it could have been. If you want one, great, but it's going to be an effort to get it. If you don't want one, good for you, Nokia and you are in total agreement.

[kjmackey]

Nokia is poor at marketing - at least here in the US. I bought my N900 without benefit of Nokia's marketing dept.

Back in the day I bought my 7710 on-line and it was drop-shipped from Singapore. The 9300 I bought, after the 7710, had spanish silk screened keys. Me da igual.

I actually bought the N8 from Nokia's online store. Not an experience I'll repeat.

So, when the N9 does turn up somewhere, I'll find some way to buy it. Why? Not because I'm such a fan of how Nokia treats me. Because it's the phone that will come closest to an upgrade from the N900.

And I've tried the N8 and the E7 - and spent quite some time with a variety of Samsung/HTC Android phones.

[olighak]

Maybe Eldar was right... only 92 000 pieces of jewels...

That´s what I´m starting to get afraid of.....

23000 of each variation.

Pink 16GB
Blue 16GB
Black 16GB
Black 64GB

It seems Nokia won´t sell the pink/red one in Europe, two retailers have told me that and I´ve noticed that the pink one has disappeared from cdon.se/.no/.dk

[somedude]

Just got an email yesterday from nokia (au), confirming my subscription to the N9 update list, and letting me know more info is coming soon......

I'll ship to the states..... for a small fee :D

i will pay small fee only for a n9

[volt]

WP7 might help NOK survive a little longer, but I don't believe it will propel NOK-MS very far. On the other hand, I still believe N9 has a chance to be successful in Asia...


I honestly to the Goddesses believe, and this is the best analysis I can come up with, I honestly belive that

NOT DOING ANYTHING RIGHT;

- ignoring the competition,
- keeping to make small incremental attempts at improving the slow dinosaur Symbian,
- PR work like they did on the N8, nothing better than that,
- continuing to having a hard-to-develop for platform like Symbian has been,

would keep NOK survive longer. In fact, at least half a decade longer. They sold a whole lot of phones as late as January. Symbian were a _growing_ platform, G.d.i.

That wasn't the only path Nokia had to choose from. If they had chosen MY preferred path, Maemo and/or MeeGo would be a nice addition to the smartphone world, and Qt on either S40 or S60 would run on lower end phones all across the globe (except North America). I believe MeeGo+Qt is sell-able, but what do I know.

Instead they chose a pretty quick road to elimination. Was it the right thing to do? Stock market says no. What Nokia did, is nothing short of betrayal to it's stock holders.

What Nokia did, is nothing short of betrayal to it's quite large developer base. You know what Microsoft says about developers? Yes, THEY are the ecosystem. Nokia wanted to have one of the three large ecosystems? They HAD one of the three large ecosystems.

Never again.

What Nokia did, is nothing short of betrayal to it's fan base. The sales numbers tell me they must have a fan base somewhere. Well, not any more. Anything these fans liked, has been pissed on, then lit on fire. Now they can hope to inherit the Microsoft Phone fan base. What is left of it after MS took away Windows Mobile, Kin, and temporarily Copy & Paste, multitasking etc. But at best, even if they should have a high percentage of fan users, we're talking a small numbers.

As it's going now, Nokia as a stand alone Corp is finished. We all see it (except those agents of controverse who traverse these here threads wearing the name of some company rival to the one they are eMployees for). The path of WP7 has halved Nokias worth. It's easy to take away half of the stock value. It's very hard to double the stock value, especially when the income is also suffering colossally over night.

I did not, do not want to let go of the idea of Nokia; the innovateur. However, that's what Nokia already decided to do, so what's left, I have no sympathy for.

*phew*

[olighak]

from stephen.elop att-nokia.com
sender-time Sent at 21:11 (UTC). Current time there: 1:14 AM. ✆
to olighak
date Wed, Aug 10, 2011 at 21:11
subject RE: No N9 in the US?
mailed-by nokia.com
Important mainly because of your interaction with messages in the conversation.

hide details 21:11 (2 minutes ago)

Thanks for the note.

The primary reason is the need to concentrate our efforts. There are very limited slots available in retail outlets, and tight limits on marketing funds, thus it is important that we focus our efforts.

We are looking at whether the N9 can be available through some online resellers.

Regards,

Stephen
- Hide quoted text -


-----Original Message-----
From: ext [mailto:olighak]
Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2011 02:42
To: Elop Stephen (Nokia/Espoo)
Subject: No N9 in the US?

Mr. Elop,

What's the reason for not releasing the beautiful N9 in the US? Your beloved WP can't live with people having options?

Maemo/Meego could have done wonders for fraction of the advertising budget that is going to thrown at the WP effort.

The words Microsoft and Nokia have pretty much become interchangeable in press announcements for mobile devices. It's sad to see a good company like Nokia flushed down the drain the way you are taking it.

Sincerely,
a Nokia customer for 13 years, and soon to be an ex-customer.
--
Name

Cell:
Fax:
E-mail: olighak

Sent from my Nokia N900

[Rugoz]

The primary reason is the need to concentrate our efforts. There are very limited slots available in retail outlets, and tight limits on marketing funds, thus it is important that we focus our efforts.

We are looking at whether the N9 can be available through some online resellers.


I guess it wasn't elop responding but anyway, as an optimist I see the positive side of that statement. It could mean the N9 will actually see significant advertising in the countries it will be offered. Good news ;)

[olighak]

I guess it wasn't elop responding but anyway, as an optimist I see the positive side of that statement. It could mean the N9 will actually see significant advertising in the countries it will be offered. Good news ;)

No, but anyone allowed to send emails as Stephen Elop will have to follow (I would think) a pretty tight rope for how he answers, and what he is allowed to say.

So I´d think emails from that account would be as good as information out of Nokia gets.

[gerbick]

This is my semi-hourly "**** you Nokia" statement...

This American feels better.

[somedude]

wow thats a record if that email reply really was from ELOP ge didnt use the word ecosystem in that whole paragraph

[ysss]

I propose to install one of those keywords-clouds forum plugin, sp we can see a graphical representation of how loud the community is yelling F*** ELOP!! And F*** NOKIA!!

[danramos]

You people are a lousy bunch of analysts LOL. I said earlier that WP+Nokia will be a hit and was ridiculed. As things turn out it actually looks like Nokia-WP will make it OK, they are really going for it.

Now the exact same people are trying to have me ridiculed for saying that the N9 will sell in numbers, and the reason: Nokia-WP will sell in numbers instead. And of course all the Eflop and M$ and killing Nokia and whatnot.

WP-Nokia will be OK, the N9 will be OK. Nokia will be OK. That is what will happen. The reason you can't see that is because you are thinking with your fanboy guts instead of your brains (not that it would actually make that much difference for you anyway :) )

http://static2.businessinsider.com/image/4d55266accd1d5c33a150000/elop-ballmer-nokia.png

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-js5lDD3grQE/TVURof0knTI/AAAAAAAAAiA/1gbIi4IIfiY/s1600/knocking%2Bnokia3.png

Also... F*** ELOP!! And F*** NOKIA!!

[volt]

You people are a lousy bunch of analysts LOL. I said earlier that WP+Nokia will be a hit and was ridiculed. As things turn out it actually looks like Nokia-WP will make it OK, they are really going for it.

(...)
WP-Nokia will be OK, the N9 will be OK. Nokia will be OK. That is what will happen. The reason you can't see that is because you are thinking with your fanboy guts instead of your brains

http://bors.e24.no/e24/images/chart/54/54473cffaca1ccfd963a957698f87470.png

[Daneel]

Can we call ericsson an idiot also? **** YOU ELOOOOOP!

[delmar]

[QUOTE=volt;1067505]JUST STOP.



There's an Amazon.de - Germany is missing from the Availability list.

See here, import from Austria http://www.amazon.de/Nokia-Smartphone-Display-Touchscreen-Megapixel/dp/B005FIY8EG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1313049866&sr=8-1

[Rauha]

You people are a lousy bunch of analysts LOL. I said earlier that WP+Nokia will be a hit and was ridiculed. As things turn out it actually looks like Nokia-WP will make it OK, they are really going for it.
Just how fluffy does your thinking process get? "they are really going for it" doesn't mean that they will make it. It only means that they are really taking a huge risk, but says absolutely nothing about chances possible success.


WP-Nokia will be OK, the N9 will be OK. Nokia will be OK. That is what will happen. The reason you can't see that is because you are thinking with your fanboy guts instead of your brains (not that it would actually make that much difference for you anyway :) )
Again, just saying everything will be OK,OK and OK means nothing. Even fanboi guts spend more time justifying their opinions.

Stock markets, consumers flocking to Android, Nokia's plunging brand strenght and WP7+ Nokia market share situtation says otherwise. Being sceptical about Elop's strategy is certainly not blind fanboism. That doesn't mean that Elop's plan to turn Nokia into an OEM is guaranteed to fail, but its criticism certainly has a realistic foundation. It has lot more realism in it than your endless optimism without any substance to back it up.

[ericsson]

You are a hopeless bunch.

I prefer to be happy. I say good work Nokia and Microsoft. Get WP working. Get WP an Harmattan devices out there, so we the users can have more alternatives, more to chose from.

In a month I will have a N9. In a year I will have a WP. Still I believe my E6 will be my day to day phone as long as it still works.

[Drekkie]

That response couldn't possibly have been from Elop, "sent from my Nokia N900" would have triggered his spam ->> trash filter.

and the forum desperately needs a "No Thanks" button. a big freaking shiny "No Effing Thanks" button; I'd wear it out on some of you folk.

[somedude]

i thought tmo had restrictions on the.personnal attack? so isnt the **** you elop and nokia a personak attack? if that dont count then it shouldnot count for any other personal attack.

[ysss]

i thought tmo had restrictions on the.personnal attack? so isnt the **** you elop and nokia a personak attack? if that dont count then it shouldnot count for any other personal attack.

Might also be breaching some other rules, since he may be a deity to some.

[geneven]

i thought tmo had restrictions on the.personnal attack? so isnt the **** you elop and nokia a personak attack? if that dont count then it shouldnot count for any other personal attack.

I don't think a company is automatically considered a person. I doubt that Nokia tosses and turns at night worrying. And here in the US, public figures often have a special status that allows a wider range of commentary about them than about ordinary people. Elop is not a participating member of this site, so rules intended to cool out flame wars don't really apply.

[somedude]

I don't think a company is automatically considered a person. I doubt that Nokia tosses and turns at night worrying. And here in the US, public figures often have a special status that allows a wider range of commentary about them than about ordinary people. Elop is not a participating member of this site, so rules intended to cool out flame wars don't really apply.

last time i checked a corporation is considered as a person in the court of law, hence when they default its liability holders cannot go after its shareholders personal property to cover their losses.
so you are saying as long as the attack doesnot involve a member of this forum its ok to carry it along?

[geneven]

The law has not decided that a corporation is a person for all purposes. For example, let's see what happens if Nokia sues, asking for damages for personal distress it received and demanding funds to consult a psychologist.

Yes, based on my credentials as a bona fide human being, I think that harsh comments about public figures are ok, as long as they don't infringe other rules, such as the one barring political commentary. If asterisks didn't save us from obscenity, I think that would not be permissible here.

Of course, I am not emperor here and the powers that be can enforce any misconceived principles they like.

[erendorn]

so you are saying as long as the attack doesnot involve a member of this forum its ok to carry it along?
As long as it is not threat or other things that would fall under the law (and moderation would want to intervene). Because they are public persons, you can express criticism.

[somedude]

so you are calling Elop a public figure? may I ask how is that public figure described? Yeah he is a CEO of a company and has been seen in tv videos when called upon a interview and has a profile posted online and you can have a two way conversation with him (hypothetically) by exchanging emails or other online interaction, he is talked among media. out of these four ground i can think of right now putiing it very simple every individual in this forum would be a public figure since it mathces 2 out of four of these criteria.

[somedude]

all in all i think this is more about being in a thin line of how you see or grasp the meaning of a word.
enough of my off topic discussion.
now some one else can churn in other off topic discussion.

[shallimus]

I'd argue that asterisked or not, such sentiments do not belong here. Yes, a great many of us are unhappy with the way things are going (going, gone...) but it'd be nice to see the signal-to-noise ratio here return to even a fraction of what it used to be.

Nice threads right now:

Traveling with N900 - facts & advice (http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=75656)
Grep command (http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1067845)
Anything not about Elop, N9 etc. etc.

[geneven]

In defense of threads like this -- getting factual information out of Nokia is not easy. I just learned today that South Africa is open to the N9. I like learning more about grep, but collecting information and commentary about the fate of our N900s etc is important to most of us.

[scapegoat845]

WTF IS GOING ON HERE !? I'm praying this thing doesn't get cancelled....

http://www.engadget.com/2011/08/11/nokia-n9-gets-axed-in-germany-global-tour-looks-even-more-meage/

[s4br0s0]

WTF IS GOING ON HERE !? I'm praying this thing doesn't get cancelled....

http://www.engadget.com/2011/08/11/nokia-n9-gets-axed-in-germany-global-tour-looks-even-more-meage/

http://i34.tinypic.com/2ry3a7s.jpg

Grettings.

[oweng]

Here's an idea, how about you email Mr Elop (or whoever happens to be replying on his behalf)?

I found it most useful.

http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=75667


In defense of threads like this -- getting factual information out of Nokia is not easy. I just learned today that South Africa is open to the N9. I like learning more about grep, but collecting information and commentary about the fate of our N900s etc is important to most of us.

[onethreealpha]

Nokia will not risk confusing their targetted WP handset markets.

The media tends to look at worldwide figures and statistics, but consideration should be given to country by country stats too.

Quite obviously, Nokia/MS are receiving market-based research that suggests opportunities will present themselves in the UK and Germany, where they may not have at the time of the original N9 announcement.

Allowing 3rd party vendors to sell the N9 in these countries, leaves all the admin and logistics out of their hands, as well as the advertising, which ultimately will decide the success of the handset.
Do you think nokia is going to invest heavily in pushing a handset, when it's OS is so dramatically different to it's preferred smartphone OS?

The N9 is as much a proof of concept as it is a proof of IP (and ensuing patent enforcement). It will guarantee Nokia has leverage against anyone who tries to develop and market a UI/UX that is similar and has managed to keep a whole host of devs on side for just long enough to continue supporting Nokia QT application development, pending the move to WP.

Increasingly, Nokia's relying on income through other revenue streams like patent and IP enforcement through licensing deals.

Hardware development has always been their strong point, as has been proven in recent years by their inability to deliver a clear and focused strategy wrt OS and UX products.

ultimately, it may be easier for the board to look at guaranteed income through licensing of patents, than it is to try and win a race that they are already losing.

the withdrawal of the N9 from an increasing number of european markets, may have more to do with MS than anything else.

[oweng]

Hmmm, they never announced that they would release throughout Europe and it looks as if actually they will make it available for online retailers.

The engadget article about it being withdrawn from Germany looks a tillte off the mark, or in the very least like sloppy journalism.

Mr Elop (or PA) apparently endorses its availability. He's clear in stating that WP is the future strategy - perhaps not what we want to hear, but to be fair he's being honest.

http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=75667

the withdrawal of the N9 from an increasing number of european markets, may have more to do with MS than anything else.

[jo21]

than the NOT GOTTA BE RELEASING NEWS ever gotta stop coming?

by next monday n9 it's canceled looking likely.

what i find disturbing eldar was tweeting about this a week ago and he was right, and so everything that was predicted as in how was announce, why elop killed maemo, and n9 getting canned in many countries.
n9 is an amazing product, not even the iphone got me in such state that i NEED TO BUY it, but i am being denied getting it.

[oweng]

Take a deep breath, relax, don't worry!

If you want a N9, buy it online.

Be brave.


than the NOT GOTTA BE RELEASING NEWS ever gotta stop coming?

by next monday n9 it's canceled looking likely.

what i find disturbing eldar was tweeting about this a week ago and he was right, and so everything that was predicted as in how was announce, why elop killed maemo, and n9 getting canned in many countries.
n9 is an amazing product, not even the iphone got me in such state that i NEED TO BUY it, but i am being denied getting it.

[lstrike21]

I dont get it...why not sell it everywhere let the people give you their money Nokia! Oh well may need to hit eBay up. Then again with Karams patches my n900 feels like a fresh new phone. I keep an Android device as a side dish. Best products Nokia has produced in years with the n9 and the n950 and one isnt being distributed worldwide and the other isnt even being sold. Bonkers man...just bonkers.

PS I am testing with 11 apps open and zero slow down. Also I am replying from the 900. I definately see improvement in speed.

[slaapliedje]

Btw, it's already on ./ ... http://mobile.slashdot.org/story/11/08/09/2013227/Nokia-Killing-Symbian-and-S40-In-North-America

@slaapliedje: regarding ST and Amiga, it was the lack of marketing. The Americans rely on marketing. If there's no or no substantial marketing, only geeks go out of their comfort zone in hunt of something they might be interested in, or what is deemed to be needed.

No doubt about that. Atari in their infinite stupidity thought that for whatever reason, that in the '90s they could go on selling their products via word of mouth, like they did back in the '80s with the Atari 2600 and then 8-bits.

IBM and Apple didn't really advertise all that much during the '90s either, but people were familiar with their products because of businesses and schools.

slaapliedje

[danramos]

No doubt about that. Atari in their infinite stupidity thought that for whatever reason, that in the '90s they could go on selling their products via word of mouth, like they did back in the '80s with the Atari 2600 and then 8-bits.

IBM and Apple didn't really advertise all that much during the '90s either, but people were familiar with their products because of businesses and schools.

slaapliedje

Actually, Atari Corp. was HEAVILY advertised back in the early 80's with the 2600's and the 8-bits back when it was owned by Warner Communications, just before Sam Tramiel bought the company from them. Sam was famous for being the guy that got the Commodore 64 out there and sold by-word-of-mouth... and once he bought Atari, he thought he could do the same. For a little while it worked, too. He turned the Atari 800XL/65XL/1200X line of products around from a chunky brown and beige device to a gray slant-slotted beautiful pieces of the 130XE/65XE/XEGS lines. It got advertising so some degree too, but once he handed the company over to his family (Jack Tramiel, famously) they ruined it by absolutely and COMPLETELY trying to run it by word-of-mouth and didn't even bother to support and listen to customers.

I remember a lot of that very personally and first-hand. I went to the AtariFests and I got to speak with the guys that worked there, including their spokesperson toward the end, Bob Brodie. Some of the same things were already happening here with Nokia. I saw it coming. Elop was unexpected to me, though. The previous stuff was like trying to drown a man with gasoline--Elop was like an unexpected passerby that sees it and happily whips out a match to light the drowning man on fire.

[Radu]

Take a deep breath, relax, don't worry!

If you want a N9, buy it online.

Be brave.

And if it breaks (like the N900 usb), have fun paying for two ways international shipping and waiting many weeks.. That if they will even honor the warranty.

[ericsson]

And if it breaks (like the N900 usb), have fun paying for two ways international shipping and waiting many weeks.. That if they will even honor the warranty.

Brave != chicken. Just thought it was worth mentioning :)

[Chuck Norris]

Whats wrong with you? Just buy the damn phone :D

[danramos]

What's wrong with you? Get over it and buy something else.

[zwer]

First they say it comes from Nokia.de, but now they've changed in "nokia.at", so it comes from the neighboring country.

Germany doesn't have a shiny history of importing from that neighboring country, tho :rolleyes:

[Chuck Norris]

What's wrong with you? Get over it and buy something else.

Have the other main OSes. It's time for some fresh OSes for all of you old dogs ;)

[vittoriob4]

Just to get an idea and that maybe little out of topic, but worse comes to worse and no one will offer N9 in States, I'll be making a trip to Europe to visit my family within next 2 months and I'm deffinitaly getting one for myself. If anybody would be intrested in getting one, shoot me PM. Not trying to make extra cash or anything like that(you will get your reciept). Trying help some ppl in this great community and I'll bring few extra at cost. I believe price for 16GB would be around 660 bucks and for 64GB around 750 bucks and that depends on exchange rate. Peace... :)

[erendorn]

so you are calling Elop a public figure? may I ask how is that public figure described?
I do, as he is the representent of a public company and speaks in the company's name.

(Yet that doesn't mean I think insulting him is right nor improves the quality of tmo)

[BigBadGuber!]

I think that lack of N9 release may also have to do with N9 not being competitive in the USA. I already heard several people not that happy with VKB. That is a deal breaker. Who knows what other bugs there are.

[unfuccwittable]

I think that lack of N9 release may also have to do with N9 not being competitive in the USA. I already heard several people not that happy with VKB. That is a deal breaker. Who knows what other bugs there are.
^oh for real? who said the VKB wasn't that good?

[BigBadGuber!]

At least two people, one from finland and the other from california that had chance to check it out

[railroadmaster]

Explain to me what makes n9 so special its just another touch screen candybar phone like we have had since 2000.

[Chuck Norris]

Explain to me what makes n9 so special its just another touch screen candybar phone like we have had since 2000.

It's has a new os and is a real linuxphone. New design and some cool features like toch and connect But if you don't like to be à pilot. It's just another touch screen candybar phone like you had since 2000.

[railroadmaster]

Don't you know Nokia doesn't want to make money they want you to hold hands with some creepy older man.

[railroadmaster]

It's has a new os and is a real linuxphone. New design and some cool features like toch and connect But if you don't like to be à pilot. It's just another touch screen candybar phone like you had since 2000.
There already many devices that run Linux like the NITS, SmartQ tablets, Archos devices with Angstrom SDE, HTC Windows mobile devices ran linux through haret.exe, Android is linux when rooted, Openmoko, and the list goes on a linux mobile device is nothing special

[Chuck Norris]

There already many devices that run Linux like the NITS, SmartQ tablets, Archos devices with Angstrom SDE, HTC Windows mobile devices ran linux through haret.exe, Android is linux when rooted, Openmoko, and the list goes on a linux mobile device is nothing special

I can see from your post that this phone is not for you. Move along.

[RFS-81]

I think that lack of N9 release may also have to do with N9 not being competitive in the USA. I already heard several people not that happy with VKB. That is a deal breaker. Who knows what other bugs there are.
A bit vague don't you think? There are hardly any products out there that wouldn't have "problems" like that.

[unfuccwittable]

At least two people, one from finland and the other from california that had chance to check it out
I'm all for making informed decisions based on the opinions of others, but when the opinions you base your decision upon come from people who have spent less than 30 minutes with the device, what's the point? EVERY device has a learning curve, and that curve differs dramatically from person to person. Let's try and base our opinions on in depth reviews, rather than the opinions of people who waited in line for an hour just to use the phone for 10 minutes.

note: I'm not saying the opinions of people who have used the device for shorter amounts of time are invalid, I'm just saying they should carry less weight.

[BigBadGuber!]

Every device has a learning curve. The only problem is that many of the most recent NOKIA devices DO NOT HAVE a curve....but a flat line, like a dead horse. I bet this thing is buggy from the get go and NOKIA brass knows that only Third World will buy this defect

[geneven]

Here's an idea, how about you email Mr Elop (or whoever happens to be replying on his behalf)?

I found it most useful.

http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=75667

I am familiar with suits and the amount of enlightenment they shed.

I read the thread you pointed to already. I already had a CEO who took over my company, made millions, bailed, and left customers and employees to go down the tubes.

[Ayle]

Every device has a learning curve. The only problem is that many of the most recent NOKIA devices DO NOT HAVE a curve....but a flat line, like a dead horse. I bet this thing is buggy from the get go and NOKIA brass knows that only Third World will buy this defect

I know from living in said "Third World" that they pay more attention to the phone they buy than Americans. They won't buy it either if it is crap. Hopefully it is not.

[geneven]

I do, as he is the representent of a public company and speaks in the company's name.

(Yet that doesn't mean I think insulting him is right nor improves the quality of tmo)

A rough rule of thumb. btw, is that anyone who holds press conferences is definitely a public figure. Not that that is the only criterion possible. Maybe a janitor who speaks out at a union meeting is still not a public figure, but Elop is not a close call; he is big and obvious.

[danramos]

I am familiar with suits and the amount of enlightenment they shed.

I read the thread you pointed to already. I already had a CEO who took over my company, made millions, bailed, and left customers and employees to go down the tubes.

Here, here... watched it from a close distance once, been through that experience personally two times (narrowly avoided a third time--left before they folded) already. I know it when I see it, now. Nokia's doing suspiciously similar dance moves.

A rough rule of thumb. btw, is that anyone who holds press conferences is definitely a public figure. Not that that is the only criterion possible. Maybe a janitor who speaks out at a union meeting is still not a public figure, but Elop is not a close call; he is big and obvious.

Actually, if that janitor was then asked by the press to keep showing up to make statements about his speaking out, he would be considered a public figure too.

[unfuccwittable]

Every device has a learning curve. The only problem is that many of the most recent NOKIA devices DO NOT HAVE a curve....but a flat line, like a dead horse. I bet this thing is buggy from the get go and NOKIA brass knows that only Third World will buy this defect
Ok, now you just sound like you don't want it to be good. People have used the N950 extensively say, the VKB is more than good, and you dismiss it as a different device, when, the firmware on the N9 is supposedly better. So if the N950 has similar firmware, albeit older, and the VKB is said to be good, how are you dismissing that? You sound like a bitter, jilted ex lover. I'm done discussing this with you, as you have proven time and time again, that your mind is already made up that the device will have faults. More power to you, but I'm not interested in having discussions with people that refuse to acknowledge valid points supported by facts. Enjoy your weekend.

http://thoughtcatalog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/A-Flowchart-to-Help-You-Determine-if-Yoursquore-Having-a-Rational-Discussion.jpg

[catbus]

I bet this thing is buggy from the get go and NOKIA brass knows that only Third World will buy this defect

I guess you would have already bedtime...

[danramos]

I guess you would have already bedtime...

Bedtime is an action? o.o

[catbus]

Bedtime is an action? o.o

Well... It is about 03:41 here, so activities are already over... ;)

[BigBadGuber!]

I have to admit that a part of me really wants to get N9, but I was so burned by N900 and N8 crappy OS, that I got iphone 4. Yes, it is boring, but it does whatever I ask it to do, without much fuss, without temper tantrums, and without any excuses.

Why will N9, be any different than the buggy line up that NOKIA has been selling and getting to the market? Tell me ya all? And looking at all the trends, I am correct. The excitement over N9 is over, because NOKIA does not deliver!!!!! And it will not deliver. N9 will be another buggy NOKIA phone, that will be acquired by few remaining fanboys.

[danramos]

Well... It is about 03:41 here, so activities are already over... ;)

I was commenting on your use of the word 'bedtime' as if it was a verb. :) Very cute. I'm not sure you meant to be cute--but it's very funny to see it used that way... damn near almost sexually suggestive to use it as a verb.