Nokia's iPod killer....n800 successor?

[noyz]

http://noknok.tv/news/nokias-iphone-killer-worlds-first-pics/

:drool:

*Commence Nokia Fanboyism*

[sherifnix]

Looks interesting, I wonder how far out it is :) 1-2 years? Likely.

Its good to see that Apple is causing the market to evolve.

[barry99705]

Unless it has a bigger than 80Gb drive, it's not an iPod killer. Besides, in a year (maybe less) the iPods will have touchscreens as well.

[rok]

Engadget Video:
http://www.engadget.com/2007/08/29/nokias-iphone-no-seriously/

The screen has similar dimensions compared to my beloved N800.

Texrat, it's your turn!

[thehobbit]

Unless it has a bigger than 80Gb drive, it's not an iPod killer. Besides, in a year (maybe less) the iPods will have touchscreens as well.

The iphone does have a touch screen. And the biggest the iphone has is 8 gb, so it could easily compete with the iphones flash memory. For it to be a iphone killer so to speak I think they'd have to make a better interface, and applications. Right now no third party applications can be installed on the iphone. What you get out of the box is it. That's why I love the internet tablets. I use it for everything from playing my old scumvm games, surfing on the couch, and watching movies on the road or listening to music while driving. Some of which I could still do with it out of the box, but do better with third party applications (I much prefer using kagu for music, and canola for movies)

Apple claims the reason they aren't allowing third party applications to be installed is because it could easily crash the network. Hopefully nokia finds some loop hole that could allow it to be open source. Other wise it might just be another fancy phone on the market that might not do somethings better or worse then the iphone.

Also a lilttle off topic but the minione is suppose to be coming out later this year (every where on the web i"ve looked says the release date is q4) and is suppose to also be a potential iphone killer. More info on it can be found here. http://www.engadget.com/tag/minione

[ragnar]

Apple claims the reason they aren't allowing third party applications to be installed is because it could easily crash the network. Hopefully nokia finds some loop hole that could allow it to be open source. Other wise it might just be another fancy phone on the market that might not do somethings better or worse then the iphone.

That's really one of the silliest statements from Apple in a very long time.

""You don't want your phone to be an open platform.... You need it to work when you need it to work. Cingular doesn't want to see their West Coast network go down because some application messed up.""

Of course there is a whole bunch of other reasons for Apple behind that move. Then again, it can of course influence the stability of the individual device. A poorly behaving 3rd party application can crash the device. Mostly I think it's about Apple controlling the user experience. It's much easier on a closed system, things can be far more integrated.

[iball]

This could, of course, work AGAINST Nokia if this device isn't S60-based.
Nokia already abandoned the S80-for-Communucators platform by going with S60 for it, if this thing is yet another OS then they've pretty much fractured themselves again. However, if the GUI is nothing more than a program running on top of S60 3rd Edition and is fully compatible with current and future S60 applications then they really have something here.

[chilko]

OPK confirmed in today's webcast that next year we will see TS S60 devices.

[iball]

OPK confirmed in today's webcast that next year we will see TS S60 devices.
Hmmm...yeah, the jury's still out for me on TS-enabled S60 devices. I'd have to do some serious hands-on, especially with the reports of iPhone touchscreens going wonky with dead strips and having to be turned in for repair/replacement.

[tabletrat]

That's really one of the silliest statements from Apple in a very long time.

I have heard that before - it was the reason that orange (uk) wouldn't have one of the linux phones, they couldn't have a system that the user could get to the network stack. In the symbian system the network stack has a amanagement section that stops people having direct access to the network. The iPhone runs OSX and no effort has ever been made (in fact the opposite) to prevent the user accessing the network directly.

You don't want your phone to be an open platform.... You need it to work when you need it to work.

Again, for 99% of people that is entirely true.

Mostly I think it's about Apple controlling the user experience. It's much easier on a closed system, things can be far more integrated.

Which is also a valid reason

[tabletrat]

The iphone does have a touch screen. And the biggest the iphone has is 8 gb, so it could easily compete with the iphones flash memory.

I think he was refering to the title which says iPod killer, not iPhone killer.
But obviously it refers to the iPhone, which is a nice change as I must have seen 100 different iPod killers come and go, so it would be nice to see the iPhone killer phrase start.

Having said that, I don't see how you can actually have an 'iPhone killer'. The iPod, yes, has a huge market dent, so there is something to kill, but the iPhone? must be currently 0.0001% of the market or something - not much to kill!

Still, the best thing about the iPhone is it may encourage phone developers to think about what they are doing, rather than adding more and more junk to phones.

[ragnar]

I have heard that before - it was the reason that orange (uk) wouldn't have one of the linux phones, they couldn't have a system that the user could get to the network stack. In the symbian system the network stack has a amanagement section that stops people having direct access to the network. The iPhone runs OSX and no effort has ever been made (in fact the opposite) to prevent the user accessing the network directly.


Allow me to be skeptical on this issue still. :)

There are also other phones than Symbian and Apple phones. Microsoft OS, Palm OS, both allowing 3rd party applications. Own OS:s from Asian manufacturers, Then all kinds of Linux variants. You are claiming tat the iPhone is different from all of those?

And it's not as if you _can't_ create 3rd party software for the iPhone. Hackers are doing that already, with pretty much full access to the device. If you could really "crash the network" with an iPhone mal-application, you would imagine that AT&T and Apple would be a bit more concerned that what they seem to be, since people are perfectly capable of creating those applications, with a little of effort.

[tabletrat]

Allow me to be skeptical on this issue still. :)

I would never deny someone the right to be sceptical :D

There are also other phones than Symbian and Apple phones. Microsoft OS, Palm OS, both allowing 3rd party applications. Own OS:s from Asian manufacturers, Then all kinds of Linux variants. You are claiming tat the iPhone is different from all of those?

Yes. The Microsoft mobile, palm and presumably other manufacturers also have a management mode to prevent unsupervised access to the phone/data stack. They are all mature phone platforms. The iPhone is very new and runs a version of OSX, which was not designed to go on a phone. It is impressive what they have done, but it is early.
It is very important when people pay for their data (and whether they do on AT&T, when they get to the rest of the world they will) that the phone doesn't allow applications unfettered access to the network.

I don't know about linux phones, I have never seen any provided by a network in the UK although obviously that doesn't meant they didn't, and in fact it seems I was wrong about orange not having linux phones:
http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS7533886035.html


As you say you can create 3rd party software for the iPhone currently but that is not with apples permissions, and there are probably no restrictions on what you can do on the network.
If you get someone to install something on one of those phones that can exploit a weekness on the iPhone and get an application installed, there would be nothing to stop it. On a nokia it would ask you if you wanted to connect.
But that is not an approved thing. And of course you can crash the network, you can crash any network if you 'get lucky'. Didn't AT&T crash their phone network once with some bad programming on a switch?

I do think there will be some access coming, even if it is just flash. I think that the platform is young, and they haven't really had time to do anything and their priority is getting it out there.
Ultimately they know there wont be any stopping it but you know how controlling apple are, they will do it on their terms. They also have to make sure that people can't access the network without permission. Maybe that is just for the carriers piece of mind, but a large part of the phone market is political rather than technical.

I am there ready to buy one as soon as there is some sort of application environment, this is if the european one gets 3G - a non 3G phone isn't much use to me at this point.

[sherifnix]

Hmmm...yeah, the jury's still out for me on TS-enabled S60 devices. I'd have to do some serious hands-on, especially with the reports of iPhone touchscreens going wonky with dead strips and having to be turned in for repair/replacement.

Seriously, my entire department has iphones (8 people) and there were no bad touchscreens.

I've never heard any reports on these "dead strips" and that would be ALLLLLLLLLLLL over the news if that was the case. I hate to be the defender of iPhone, but you're pulling an odd argument against touch screens. Nokia fixed their N800 screen problems last i checked?

[Texrat]

Engadget Video:
http://www.engadget.com/2007/08/29/nokias-iphone-no-seriously/

The screen has similar dimensions compared to my beloved N800.

Texrat, it's your turn!

I think some people are pessimistic about a release date. :D

[iball]

Seriously, my entire department has iphones (8 people) and there were no bad touchscreens.

I've never heard any reports on these "dead strips" and that would be ALLLLLLLLLLLL over the news if that was the case. I hate to be the defender of iPhone, but you're pulling an odd argument against touch screens. Nokia fixed their N800 screen problems last i checked?

Did the internet "break"? Is Google offline?
Google (http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=iphone+dead+strips&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8) is your friend.

[Rebski]

Will it upset you all to be told that it is vaporware?

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/smartphones/nokias-future-iphone-killing-concept-like-a-fake-vaporous-picasso-294730.php

"This demo is strictly for the UI, not the device. The hardware is not even real. The LCD's images are overlayed on the hardware so we're not even talking working proto"

[Karel Jansens]

All I've seen is a shady video of a device that appears to have a tilt sensor and a finger-friendly UI (if it is a UI, and not just the one application that mimicks the iPhone (<spit!>), of course).

I for one don't think that the iPhone's (<spit!>) UI is God's gift to humanity: It's finger-only, has only one input method, doesn't manage to implement all those shiny UI gimmicks in every application and is severely limited as a computing platform. So Nokia could do a whole lot better than try to imitate the iPhone (<spit!>).

If this thing is Nokia's "answer" to the iPhone (<spit!>) -- assuming for the moment that there was a question to begin with -- than it is this reporter's opinion that they're seriously scr*wed.

[ragnar]

Will it upset you all to be told that it is vaporware?

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/smartphones/nokias-future-iphone-killing-concept-like-a-fake-vaporous-picasso-294730.php
"This demo is strictly for the UI, not the device. The hardware is not even real. The LCD's images are overlayed on the hardware so we're not even talking working proto"

It kinds of depends on your definition of vaporware. As it said in the link, it is an UI demo for future S60 SW, supporting also touch screen devices. What the hardware there in that video is imho rather irrelevant.

Whereas iPhone is the combination of the device+the SW, S60, as you know, is the SW platform. It can run on any number of devices, so if the ... black blob device in the video isn't real, i frankly don't really see the relevance to the issue. It wasn't a demo of the HW, it was a demo of the SW.

HW:s that are capable of running touch screen UI's exist. It wouldn't be tied to any one particular HW form factor. Google "S60 touch".

[barry99705]

It kinds of depends on your definition of vaporware. As it said in the link, it is an UI demo for future S60 SW, supporting also touch screen devices. What the hardware there in that video is imho rather irrelevant.

Whereas iPhone is the combination of the device+the SW, S60, as you know, is the SW platform. It can run on any number of devices, so if the ... black blob device in the video isn't real, i frankly don't really see the relevance to the issue. It wasn't a demo of the HW, it was a demo of the SW.

HW:s that are capable of running touch screen UI's exist. It wouldn't be tied to any one particular HW form factor. Google "S60 touch".


I know 5 or 6 6th graders that can build a "UI demo" in flash that looks ten times better than that piece of crap or the iPhone. When they show a real chunk of hardware with at least a demo of the UI running, then I'll maybe get excited.

[paulh]

Did the internet "break"? Is Google offline?


Obviously it must be, because people can create software that has direct access to the network on their computers.

[Milhouse]

I think the most important thing to come out of today's presentation in London is this statement from Anssi Vanjoki, Nokia's Executive VP & General Manager of Multimedia: "If there is something good in the world then we copy with pride."

Sounds fair enough, and I expect good things in future - get copying, Nokia! :) The iPhone UI is just a start.

[noyz]

I actually meant to put "iPhone" killer. My mistake, but whatever it happens.

[bartsimpson123844]

Whatever the hell happened to the Nokia Aeon?? Aeon (http://leetstuff.com/2006/10/15/nokia_aeon.html)

[Aisu]

Hm...

I wish Nokia would be innovators instead of just scavengers, hm. That Aeon looks pretty cool, though.

I just know that I don't want my next IT to clone an iPhone ;)

[bartsimpson123844]

Hm...

I wish Nokia would be innovators instead of just scavengers, hm.

I just know that I don't want my next IT to clone an iPhone ;)

What? No, that is a bunch of bullcrap. The iPhone is nothing new. They just created a new interface on old hardware. Nothing new about that. IMHO, all Apple products are overpriced garbage and I will never purchase anything that has the Apple name. Maybe I am just biased.

[Aisu]

*cough* What?

I never said the iPhone was new. Apple is not innovative, but they put great technology together. I said I did not want Nokia to copy Apple's desgin. I want Nokia to be innovative.

[=DC=]

Heck, I just want Nokia to focus on polishing it's current touchscreen offerings. I really really really hope the Internet Tablets are not simply a testbed for where S60 mobiles are headed. And if they are, Nokia really really really needs to state that to the loyal community behind it's support.

If done right, both the S60 and Maemo platforms could benefit from each other in great ways. However I don't think that sort of thing will happen anytime soon.

It's ironic that a company dedicated to "connecting people" sure are having a hard time doing so internally.

[barry99705]

What? No, that is a bunch of bullcrap. The iPhone is nothing new. They just created a new interface on old hardware. Nothing new about that. IMHO, all Apple products are overpriced garbage and I will never purchase anything that has the Apple name. Maybe I am just biased.

I think we're all biased. Personally I won't buy anything with Microsoft's name on it. If my n800 eats another mmc card or white screens I'll be adding Nokia to that list as well.

[sachin007]

What? No, that is a bunch of bullcrap. The iPhone is nothing new. They just created a new interface on old hardware. Nothing new about that. IMHO, all Apple products are overpriced garbage and I will never purchase anything that has the Apple name. Maybe I am just biased.

You took those words right off my mouth!!! Hate apple.